Pakistan, India can take trade up to $30bn if they improve ties: Indian High Commissioner

[Abdullah719]

The Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan, Ajay Bisaria, on Friday, stressed the need to improve trade ties between the two neighbouring nations while addressing an event at the Lahore Chamber of Commerce and Industry (LCCI).

Bisaria’s statement comes at a time when relations between the two nuclear neighbours are at a low amid heightened tensions because of the latest incidents of harassment of Pakistani diplomats in India. A Pakistani delegation is also currently visiting India to discuss water issues.

The top Indian diplomat told the audience today that traders on both sides of the Indo-Pak border face visa issues which is among the reasons why the two sides have failed to actualise the potential $30 billion trademark estimated by the World Bank.

Trade volume through a third country is greater while direct trade between India and Pakistan stands at only $2.2bn, Bisaria noted.

He stressed that the two sides will have to work together for a peaceful future and said that poverty and illiteracy are common enemies of both nations, adding that both sides need to improve mutual ties.

Bisaria also said that the policy of confrontation that has been going on for over 70 years has benefited no one and should be dropped in favour of one which is led by the large young population on both sides that is the furthest away from the bitter past.

The diplomat also expressed hope that cricket between the two nations would resume as relations normalise since citizens on both sides want restoration of bilateral games.

He highlighted the role of media in ties between the two nations and said that reporting that is far from the truth adds to the problems.

Last week, Pakistan’s High Commissioner to India Sohail Mahmood had expressed similar sentiments for peace and said that both India and Pakistan must give their next generations a future of hope and opportunities.

https://www.thestatesman.com/india/...ties-indian-high-commissioner-1502614707.html

 

[Syed1]

For that India would have to lose their desire to "isolate" Pakistan.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It's a shame we cannot learn from USA and Canada.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India have finally realized they are the only losers if they keep themselves out of the game changing CPEC project. India needs to let go their ego and hatred for muslims and be an active participant/investor in the CPEC.

 

[Bhaijaan]

For that India would have to lose their desire to "isolate" Pakistan.

The isolate Pakistan project has brought nothing but humiliation to us. While trying out best to damage Pakistan's reputation globally we have ensured lifelong animosity of China who continues to bully us on global forums. Russia is going away from us and getting closer to Pakistan. Our neighbors Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka are today all in China's pockets. Soon Iran will realize Chabahar is never going to be a Gawadar.

Like i said the sooner India realizes they are missing out on the CPEC boat and do their bit in getting accepted on it, the better it will be for them and their people if they are to progress their way through this century.

 

[akki]

The isolate Pakistan project has brought nothing but humiliation to us. While trying out best to damage Pakistan's reputation globally we have ensured lifelong animosity of China who continues to bully us on global forums. Russia is going away from us and getting closer to Pakistan. Our neighbors Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka are today all in China's pockets. Soon Iran will realize Chabahar is never going to be a Gawadar.

Like i said the sooner India realizes they are missing out on the CPEC boat and do their bit in getting accepted on it, the better it will be for them and their people if they are to progress their way through this century.

Go and watch your pakistani media channels or do i need to send the link ? Saw yourself who is slowly realizing what about cpec.

 

[English August]

For that India would have to lose their desire to "isolate" Pakistan.

India granted MFN status to Pakistan decades ago. Pakistan hasn't done it till date even though it's mandated by WTO. Facts.

 

[gani999]

India have finally realized they are the only losers if they keep themselves out of the game changing CPEC project. India needs to let go their ego and hatred for muslims and be an active participant/investor in the CPEC.

The CPEC is not going to benefit India in any way, and that is why India is not in it. The CPEC is going to be of use only to Pakistan and China. India has never tried to isolate Pakistan in any way, and has even given them MFN trading status years ago. It was Pakistan that never reciprocated.

 

[www787]

The CPEC is not going to benefit India in any way, and that is why India is not in it. The CPEC is going to be of use only to Pakistan and China. India has never tried to isolate Pakistan in any way, and has even given them MFN trading status years ago. It was Pakistan that never reciprocated.

To reject it out of despise and what have you been told is out right ignorance.
Anything that will bring both countries together and connect the general population will help both Pakistan and India economically, security, and peace.
CPEC will benefit India, not only with Pakistan but with China.

The only reason India not in because the nationalist religious extremist politician elected need to keep the sheeple to get vote. And, lets not kid yourself, you aren't fooling no one by saying that current India government hasn't tried to isolate Pakistan.

India is going down the dangerous path if India keep electing religious extremist, you can see rise in sectarian and religious violence against the minority.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The CPEC is not going to benefit India in any way, and that is why India is not in it. The CPEC is going to be of use only to Pakistan and China. India has never tried to isolate Pakistan in any way, and has even given them MFN trading status years ago. It was Pakistan that never reciprocated.

What did I just read?

Honestly if India becomes part of CPEC it stands to gain the most from it provided Pakistan China support them.

 

[cricketjoshila]

To reject it out of despise and what have you been told is out right ignorance.
Anything that will bring both countries together and connect the general population will help both Pakistan and India economically, security, and peace.
CPEC will benefit India, not only with Pakistan but with China.

The only reason India not in because the nationalist religious extremist politician elected need to keep the sheeple to get vote. And, lets not kid yourself, you aren't fooling no one by saying that current India government hasn't tried to isolate Pakistan.

India is going down the dangerous path if India keep electing religious extremist, you can see rise in sectarian and religious violence against the minority.

CPEC or any Chinese BRI isnt in Indias interest and no Indian govt will sign up for it.

CPEC passes through PoK thats Indias only issue with it.


There are many countries that invest in India and hence India will not need to join BRI by agreeing to Chinese terms. This has nothing to do with Pakistan. Just like who we elect is our decision not Pakistan's

 

[www787]

CPEC or any Chinese BRI isnt in Indias interest and no Indian govt will sign up for it.

CPEC passes through PoK thats Indias only issue with it.


There are many countries that invest in India and hence India will not need to join BRI by agreeing to Chinese terms. This has nothing to do with Pakistan. Just like who we elect is our decision not Pakistan's

Can you tell me when did I say i could elect Indian PM?

There are always going to be many countries which will invest in India. But this topic isn’t about other countries, it is about Pakistan and India.

Try to stay on topic if you can and if not then don’t respond with repeated offensive.

This is an open forum where people can post their pint of view.

Now again point out when and where I suggested I could vote for an Indian PM?

And if I could ever I wouldn’t be voting for radical religious extremists.

 

[Syed1]

CPEC passes through PoK thats Indias only issue with it.

I don't know about your other points, but that is the most stupid point ever made. Pakistan has been building roads, bridges, highways, dams, railways stations and lines through this "PoK" ever since independence. We do not need permission from India to build anything on this piece of land.



Heck the part of highway that is envisioned under CPEC to pass through "PoK" is the already existing Karakoram highway which was constructed by a China-Pakistan partnership all the way back in 1979. CPEC is only going to reuse the existing highway, add lanes to it and further expand its reach.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I don't know about your other points, but that is the most stupid point ever made. Pakistan has been building roads, bridges, highways, dams, railways stations and lines through this "PoK" ever since independence. We do not need permission from India to build anything on this piece of land.



Heck the part of highway that is envisioned under CPEC to pass through "PoK" is the already existing Karakoram highway which was constructed by a China-Pakistan partnership all the way back in 1979. CPEC is only going to reuse the existing highway, add lanes to it and further expand its reach.

I saw BBC documentary of the road networks through PoK bro. Heavenly place and the road journey seems like a dream. I wish there was peace in the region so that loving Indians like me could go there and cherish it.

China has helped a lot in developing the infra and local people with food, maintenance and stuff during natural calamities. They absolutely LOVE China. India has truly failed to achieve this with its neighbours.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Can you tell me when did I say i could elect Indian PM?

There are always going to be many countries which will invest in India. But this topic isn’t about other countries, it is about Pakistan and India.

Try to stay on topic if you can and if not then don’t respond with repeated offensive.

This is an open forum where people can post their pint of view.

Now again point out when and where I suggested I could vote for an Indian PM?

And if I could ever I wouldn’t be voting for radical religious extremists.

Your entire country is based on a religion so its better you do not give sermons on religion and govt. Pakistan is a islamic republic, do Indians go around questioning and commenting why its a Islamic republic etc etc. Your country your wish. Similarly why is it your headache who is our PM?

Telling Indians why they are not joining cpec.lol.

Telling indians they are on a dangerous path. Yoy mean the path to development?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know about your other points, but that is the most stupid point ever made. Pakistan has been building roads, bridges, highways, dams, railways stations and lines through this "PoK" ever since independence. We do not need permission from India to build anything on this piece of land.



Heck the part of highway that is envisioned under CPEC to pass through "PoK" is the already existing Karakoram highway which was constructed by a China-Pakistan partnership all the way back in 1979. CPEC is only going to reuse the existing highway, add lanes to it and further expand its reach.

Pakistan has been building and India has lodged protest. Just like India builds in J and K and Pakistan protests.

Why should we be joining that project? Why should India be joining cpec? When it passes through illegally occupied territory that belongs to India.

Thats the issue india has with cpec. Not because of some jealousy at a 50bn project which is equals Indias annual defence budget.

 

[Poutine]

Go and watch your pakistani media channels or do i need to send the link ? Saw yourself who is slowly realizing what about cpec.

Your Pakistani channels? The poster you quoted is Indian.

 

[www787]

Your entire country is based on a religion so its better you do not give sermons on religion and govt. Pakistan is a islamic republic, do Indians go around questioning and commenting why its a Islamic republic etc etc. Your country your wish. Similarly why is it your headache who is our PM?

Telling Indians why they are not joining cpec.lol.

Telling indians they are on a dangerous path. Yoy mean the path to development?

Dumbest comment presented by you again when you can't defend what is happening in India due to rise of extremism by majority against minority.

This is a public forum where people discuss various issue. And, anyone can discuss anything and everything if they wish to as long as are within the rules of PP. it isn't rocket science, and since you have studied medicine it shouldn't be difficult for your to comprehend. It is such an elementary concept of a forum, almost similar to learning ABCD.

You do not represent every Indian, you represent yourself. So stop speaking for every Indian, and obviously before you emit your usual unrelated puke of how i do not represent India, I obviously do not.So, to your question do Indian question or comment on topic related to Pakistan, then simple and obvious answer is 'yes', remember this forum is called PakPassion. Again, not rocket science, an elementary concept,.....try, A, B , C, D, E, F ......

Again giving my personal point of view as i see, and if you can't discuss or refute then stay away, you aren't obligated to comment on every post related to India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Dumbest comment presented by you again when you can't defend what is happening in India due to rise of extremism by majority against minority.

This is a public forum where people discuss various issue. And, anyone can discuss anything and everything if they wish to as long as are within the rules of PP. it isn't rocket science, and since you have studied medicine it shouldn't be difficult for your to comprehend. It is such an elementary concept of a forum, almost similar to learning ABCD.

You do not represent every Indian, you represent yourself. So stop speaking for every Indian, and obviously before you emit your usual unrelated puke of how i do not represent India, I obviously do not.So, to your question do Indian question or comment on topic related to Pakistan, then simple and obvious answer is 'yes', remember this forum is called PakPassion. Again, not rocket science, an elementary concept,.....try, A, B , C, D, E, F ......

Again giving my personal point of view as i see, and if you can't discuss or refute then stay away, you aren't obligated to comment on every post related to India.

1. I do not need to defend anything here. India doesnot need defending on PP. Its not rocket science is it?

2.India has had mi or clashes between different communities since a long long time. It hasnot affected the country in anyway. Extremism is what is rising in Europe as evidenced by terror attacks.

3. Since you talk about PP rules. This thread is about Road building. Where you came and regurgitated your hate about India Modi Hindus etc. Thats called diverting the thread.

4.Just like you have right to opine i too have the right to tell you to keep away from poking in the matters of my country. Just like this forum is PAKPASSION, my country is INDIA and it has nothing to do with you.

When your personal opinion becomes accusations and insults thrown at another country with which you have nothing to do and which incidentally is my country i will tell you to mind your own business.

 

[DeadBall]

1. I do not need to defend anything here. India doesnot need defending on PP. Its not rocket science is it?

2.India has had mi or clashes between different communities since a long long time. It hasnot affected the country in anyway. Extremism is what is rising in Europe as evidenced by terror attacks.

3. Since you talk about PP rules. This thread is about Road building. Where you came and regurgitated your hate about India Modi Hindus etc. Thats called diverting the thread.

4.Just like you have right to opine i too have the right to tell you to keep away from poking in the matters of my country. Just like this forum is PAKPASSION, my country is INDIA and it has nothing to do with you.

When your personal opinion becomes accusations and insults thrown at another country with which you have nothing to do and which incidentally is my country i will tell you to mind your own business.

Actually this thread is about Pak/Indo trade ties but after a while they all do go down a similar path.

 

[www787]

1. I do not need to defend anything here. India doesnot need defending on PP. Its not rocket science is it?

2.India has had mi or clashes between different communities since a long long time. It hasnot affected the country in anyway. Extremism is what is rising in Europe as evidenced by terror attacks.

3. Since you talk about PP rules. This thread is about Road building. Where you came and regurgitated your hate about India Modi Hindus etc. Thats called diverting the thread.

4.Just like you have right to opine i too have the right to tell you to keep away from poking in the matters of my country. Just like this forum is PAKPASSION, my country is INDIA and it has nothing to do with you.

When your personal opinion becomes accusations and insults thrown at another country with which you have nothing to do and which incidentally is my country i will tell you to mind your own business.

Againg ABCDE....
hate? how is it hate pointing out the obvious that currently India has problem with rise of radicalism.

How have I insult India? by simply pointing out that i believe that one of the cause from India end is that rise of extremism.

Again, if i were to accuse or insult i would do it, i do not know you nor i care for your feeling, you aren't that special.

Now stop accusing other for stating their point of view on a public forum for accusing and insulting India.

What would adult do in this situation they would present a counter argument instead of getting bent out of shape and emitting verbal diarrhea, "do not discuss India, i forbid you from discussing Indai", NO!. But you can chose not to reply.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Actually this thread is about Pak/Indo trade ties but after a while they all do go down a similar path.

Road building i meant building roads between countries and people through trade etc. Not literal roads.

It goes down the same path because someone from Pak side will come up with the usual Modi Hindu Extremism **** and someone from India will retaliate etc etc.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Againg ABCDE....
hate? how is it hate pointing out the obvious that currently India has problem with rise of radicalism.

How have I insult India? by simply pointing out that i believe that one of the cause from India end is that rise of extremism.

Again, if i were to accuse or insult i would do it, i do not know you nor i care for your feeling, you aren't that special.

Now stop accusing other for stating their point of view on a public forum for accusing and insulting India.

What would adult do in this situation they would present a counter argument instead of getting bent out of shape and emitting verbal diarrhea, "do not discuss India, i forbid you from discussing Indai", NO!. But you can chose not to reply.

What rise of radicalism? India has more incidents of violence than Europe or America? What you term radicalism is clash between communities in a nation of 1.3bn.What has that got to do with this thread?

What had Modi extremism who india vote etc etc got to do with this thread?Nothing.Except for your own hatred for India and Hindus. Or may be your own insecurities.

Yea be an adult and stop bringing Modi or who india vote etc etc into every discussion. Stop trying to tell foreigners what is the problem in their country, when in actuality they have been doing better than your country.

This thread is about trade relations etc, talk about that, rather than being insecure and show your hatred towards Modi Hindus India etc.

 

[DeadBall]

Road building i meant building roads between countries and people through trade etc. Not literal roads.

It goes down the same path because someone from Pak side will come up with the usual Modi Hindu Extremism **** and someone from India will retaliate etc etc.

Was just mentioning it because there is an actual thread about road building in India atm and thought you just posted in the wrong thread.

 

[CanadianG00se]

RSS, can you tell me what terror activities are RSS wanted for in Pakistan?

For throwing grenades like Ink on face, and Digging up pitch and destroying place like TTP have done over the years. Due to this act of theirs, UN have officially declared them as terrorist outfit and have been outlawed globally.

 

[big_gamer007]

Problem is every time we open relations with Pakistan a terror attack happens.. So i guess it’s best to keep relations to a bare minimum.. In an ideal world we should have been America - Canada but o well.

 

[prayas]

What will India gain from CPEC it will only increase Chinese product in India.Pakistan is not going to allow India to pass its product through Pakistan if they allow it i am sure India will join CPEC.India is trying to convince Pak government from many year to allow Indian products pass through Pakistan soil but they didn't allow it and we can see India doing its trade through Iran port.

 

[OoparCut]

I don't understand why Pakistanis are so blind about CPEC and OBOR. China is not out to do some charity for Pakistan with OBOR and CPEC - the primary over-riding objective of OBOR of which CPEC is a component - is to use up the excess idle capacity of chinese infrastructure companies, and to create transit corridors for the export of chinese goods, so that they can corner market share.

I can understand that Pakistan has limited funds and options for investment and development of its infrastructure, and from that perspective CPEC is good for Pakistan. But on what basis are PP posters claiming that India is "missing out" on CPEC?

Its actually not profitable for India to participate in CPEC. And neither does India need Chinese loans at high interest rates to build roads in India. Indian govt is already spending billions of its own money to do that on its own.


On the subject that started this thread off, the potential for economic benefit to both India and Pakistan is immense from mutual trade. But the engineered hostility that seems to never go away keeps the potential from materializing. And it appears that Pakistanis would rather trade with China than India - and that's fine I guess. You make your choices and you live with them.

 

[jeetu]

Might happen in couple of decade when/if Pakistan suffers from China's antics.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Oil is now trading using Yuan. Goodbye Petrodollar, hello China.

It makes sense to have China as an ally both in political and economical front.

India is indeed missing out and in a decade will be isolated in the SC. India should also remember their dark days of the 90s, when India was broke and jumped for joy at the first foreign investment at the tune of 10 Million USD. Though nice to see India is concerned for Pakistan's future. Cough cough.

Growth takes time, and CPEC is just the beginning. Silk Road 2 is about to change the dynamics of global trade.

Pakistan is the future.

 

[English August]

Pakistan is the future.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in wishing well for the future!

 

[R3verse Swing]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in wishing well for the future!

This is all you have to say? Don't worry about Pakistan. Worry about India.

More than 25 million people apply for Indian railway vacancies

Reuters) - More than 25 million people, a number greater than Australia's population, have applied for about 90,000 positions on India's state-run railways, underlining the challenge Prime Minister Narendra Modi faces in providing millions of jobs ahead of an election in 2019.

Modi was voted into power in 2014 on promises to reignite growth in Asia's third-largest economy and provide jobs. But his flagship "Make in India" initiative to lift the share of manufacturing in India's $2 trillion economy to 25 percent from about 17 percent and create 100 million jobs by 2022 has so far failed to deliver on its promise.

https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...ly-for-indian-railway-vacancies-idINKBN1H523A

Booming economy my foot.

No wonder India is desperate for bilateral trade with Pakistan, it's another way of saying we will join CPEC via stealth without admitting CPEC will hurt us (India).

The future is indeed Pakistan, not India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

LOL. India is desperate. Pakistan needs CPEC, India doesnot. It has rejected CPEC and the whole BRI.

Someone is predicting doom for the Indian economy for last many years, sadly for him Pakistan required IMF bail out and India. India continues to be one of the fastest growing economy in the world. And the poor guy can only burn and watch.

 

[English August]

This is all you have to say? Don't worry about Pakistan. Worry about India.

More than 25 million people apply for Indian railway vacancies



https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...ly-for-indian-railway-vacancies-idINKBN1H523A

Booming economy my foot.

No wonder India is desperate for bilateral trade with Pakistan, it's another way of saying we will join CPEC via stealth without admitting CPEC will hurt us (India).

The future is indeed Pakistan, not India.

To reiterate, there is no harm in dreaming at all.

The story you quoted at least proves that Indian Railways is hiring. Is Pakistan Railways hiring too? Or do you think the Chinese will build their own railways and get their own staff to work in these projects? When I scan Pak newspapers, I don't see any report suggesting major hiring. Instead I saw a report that said Pak is close to going back to IMF for another bailout.

I do hope Pak's future is bright. What I am seeing instead is a very bright Chinese future.

 

[R3verse Swing]

25Million applicants for 90000 positions can only mean 1 of 2 things. Rampant unemployment, or the Railway industry must pay incredibly well. I found the part where applicants were sleeping at the stations to avoid missing their interviews quite heartening.

Also let's not pretend India's economy is self sufficient, it only exists due to foreign money, and previous IMF bailouts (1991 was a barrel of laughs) oh and of course international charity funds/aid.

Indian economy is feeling the heat. In a few weeks, 24910000 dreams will be shattered and reduced to a nightmare, but then again there's no harm in dreaming. CPEC and trade with Pakistan is the only way out. Otherwise Modi's 'make in India' sound bite will become a dream too.

We also shouldn't forget the British built India railways. They sure benefited from it.

 

[English August]

25Million applicants for 90000 positions can only mean 1 of 2 things. Rampant unemployment, or the Railway industry must pay incredibly well. I found the part where applicants were sleeping at the stations to avoid missing their interviews quite heartening.

Also let's not pretend India's economy is self sufficient, it only exists due to foreign money, and previous IMF bailouts (1991 was a barrel of laughs) oh and of course international charity funds/aid.

Indian economy is feeling the heat. In a few weeks, 24910000 dreams will be shattered and reduced to a nightmare, but then again there's no harm in dreaming. CPEC and trade with Pakistan is the only way out. Otherwise Modi's 'make in India' sound bite will become a dream too.

We also shouldn't forget the British built India railways. They sure benefited from it.

You didn't answer if Pak Railways (or any other org) is hiring in such large numbers. I'm assuming that Pak has railways and isn't waiting for the Chinese to build it for you.

Could you show me a quick math showing how India is dependent on IMF bailout / charity from others?

India's GDP is $2.5 trillion (as per CIA factbook). What part of this is dependent on IMF / other charities. Please be my guest and answer the question quoting respectable third-party sources. And please don't change the subject. Just answer the question!

 

[R3verse Swing]

How can one understand maths when it was clearly mentioned *previous IMF bailout* 1991 was an example. These Indians accuse Pakistan of everything that India was once at the reciving end of. They talk about China, forget without foreign money India would be nowhere. Irony alert.

Forget Maths or English, History is called for.

 

[English August]

How can one understand maths when it was clearly mentioned *previous IMF bailout* 1991 was an example. These Indians accuse Pakistan of everything that India was once at the reciving end of. They talk about China, forget without foreign money India would be nowhere. Irony alert.

Forget Maths or English, History is called for.

It would be a lot easier to ack that you were not able to provide a reasonable answer. Or the answer would not have supported your narrative, so you chose not to provide it. It's okay, this won't be the first time you've put foot in your mouth.

Since you're so proud of becoming a Chinese client state after receiving the CPEC "investment" (which is in fact a high-interest debt, not an investment), could you provide an equivalent example of India receiving similar debt-ridden "investment" from anyone?

Please try to provide a specific example. If you can't, I will. (Hint: it starts with E, ends with N, and inspired an Amitabh Bachchan / Aishwarya Rai movie several years later).

 

[R3verse Swing]

The bottom line is this, until the people of Pakistan start speaking Chinese, the worry of China's influence doesn't come into question, unlike English and how popular it is in India.

India is bricking it. Cursed by its geography, cursed by its isolated economic policies - Make in India - will become - Break in India.

It is clear as daylight India sees Pakistan's impending economic boom as a threat.

 

[English August]

The bottom line is this, until the people of Pakistan start speaking Chinese, the worry of China's influence doesn't come into question, unlike English and how popular it is in India.

India is bricking it. Cursed by its geography, cursed by its isolated economic policies - Make in India - will become - Break in India.

It is clear as daylight India sees Pakistan's impending economic boom as a threat.

Right, so:

- You were not able to provide a single example of Pak able to generate jobs the way Indian Railways is (even though it's leading to huge number of applicants)

- You were not able to provide any evidence for your comment saying that Indian economy is dependent on IMF bailouts / charities even for a minuscule % of its GDP (fact: India has zero dependence on IMF / World Bank)

- You were not able to provide a CPEC type example for the Indian economy (fact: do some reading on Enron case, what trouble it caused in India in the 90s, what lessons India learned from it and how India has avoided similar CPEC type "investments")

But we should believe that India is worried about this mythical Pakistani economic boom. The same economy that is a few weeks short of falling at the feet of IMF (or China or Saudi Arabia) for another bailout. That is grey-listed by FATF and about to be black-listed.

Riiight. That makes a lot of sense and is clear as daylight.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Indians now trying to change the subject.

Yes folks as I have said, India fears a strong Pakistan especially a strong economic Pakistan, hence India is making noise about trade with Pakistan. The combined Pakistan + China is a force to be reckoned with, not just on the border of Kashmir, but an economic corridor to the West. India clearly wants a piece of the action but lacks the courage to admit it. The fact that 25M are applying for 90000 railway jobs tells you all you need to know about how prosperous India is.

I also love when Indians lift my words when they have no answers. Brilliant!

 

[cricketjoshila]

Right, so:

- You were not able to provide a single example of Pak able to generate jobs the way Indian Railways is (even though it's leading to huge number of applicants)

- You were not able to provide any evidence for your comment saying that Indian economy is dependent on IMF bailouts / charities even for a minuscule % of its GDP (fact: India has zero dependence on IMF / World Bank)

- You were not able to provide a CPEC type example for the Indian economy (fact: do some reading on Enron case, what trouble it caused in India in the 90s, what lessons India learned from it and how India has avoided similar CPEC type "investments")

But we should believe that India is worried about this mythical Pakistani economic boom. The same economy that is a few weeks short of falling at the feet of IMF (or China or Saudi Arabia) for another bailout. That is grey-listed by FATF and about to be black-listed.

Riiight. That makes a lot of sense and is clear as daylight.

Why should posters of a 2.5tn economy which is the fastest growing in the world bother to reply to delusional posters of a 280bn economy that is staring at another IMF bailout, is about to be added to FATF grey list and whose biggest claim is that it will receive some 50bn or 55bn usd in next few years?Any reason? I see none.

 

[Varun]

And if I could ever I wouldn’t be voting for radical religious extremists.

Pray, enlighten us: who would you vote to be as PM of India, given the chance?

The dud that is Rahul Gandhi right?

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Would be wonderful if it came to fruition but I can't see it happening. In fact I'd go as far as saying that India and Pakistan could have incredibly complementary economies if the region was more integrated through a NAFTA style deal, something that would truly unlock Pakistan's economy much more that CPEC would. That's just how economics works; a difference between being a trading entrepot and an actual value-manufacturing economy.

What I don't understand is that while most Pakistanis who aren't trolling for the sake of it, are ready to accept that good relations with India would be desirable, I don't see that belief from many Indians on this forum who feel that they can afford the status quo forever. I understand that India has grown enormously but have two hostile nations on either side (with China dwarfing India in every way) is never conducive to long-term growth. What's even more surprising was that previously it was a BJP government that went out of its way to make peace with Pakistan, while the same party-led government is doing the opposite.

How is it that a supposedly right-wing pro-business party not see the value in making peace with a currently politically fragile Pakistan? It's your best chance! Absolute stupidity.

 

[OoparCut]

I understand that India has grown enormously but have two hostile nations on either side (with China dwarfing India in every way) is never conducive to long-term growth. What's even more surprising was that previously it was a BJP government that went out of its way to make peace with Pakistan, while the same party-led government is doing the opposite.

How is it that a supposedly right-wing pro-business party not see the value in making peace with a currently politically fragile Pakistan? It's your best chance! Absolute stupidity.

Modi 'dropped by' Lahore to meet with PM of Pakistan, in order to pursue better relations. The infamous "dawn leaks" showed how PakMil vetoed improving trade or any relations with India.

Of course Indians and Indian govt want peace and trade with Pakistan - in the long-term. But if the PakMil establishment choose to play spoiler instead of allowing co-operation to blossom, Indian govt can afford to wait, and play hardball as well.

 

[Varun]

What's even more surprising was that previously it was a BJP government that went out of its way to make peace with Pakistan, while the same party-led government is doing the opposite.

How is it that a supposedly right-wing pro-business party not see the value in making peace with a currently politically fragile Pakistan? It's your best chance! Absolute stupidity.

The Vajpayee and Modi governments are significantly different from one another. Don't forget Vajpayee burned his fingers trying to broker a deal with Pakistan, and it takes a long time for such scars to fade between any countries, leave alone the two of us.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Modi 'dropped by' Lahore to meet with PM of Pakistan, in order to pursue better relations. The infamous "dawn leaks" showed how PakMil vetoed improving trade or any relations with India.

Of course Indians and Indian govt want peace and trade with Pakistan - in the long-term. But if the PakMil establishment choose to play spoiler instead of allowing co-operation to blossom, Indian govt can afford to wait, and play hardball as well.

Is that really true though? I agree that it was a pretty bold step by Modi, and that there were irritants after that, but I'm seeing the appetite for peace in the average Indian way lower than the appetite for peace in the average Pakistani. For one you could play cricket. I don't think Indians realize how much of animosity they are building up in the average moderate Pakistani through this ill-judged refusal to play Pakistan. Don't you guys remember Jeet Lo Dil? That also took place in the scene of incredible tensions between the two countries.

The Vajpayee and Modi governments are significantly different from one another. Don't forget Vajpayee burned his fingers trying to broker a deal with Pakistan, and it takes a long time for such scars to fade between any countries, leave alone the two of us.

Well that's the problem right. I don't think Indians realize how much of harm this government is doing to India's soft power in Pakistan. I can attest having grown up there in the 90's that despite everything there was a grudging appreciation and at good times, even affection, for India thanks to the soft power that was there through cinema, music, cricket and even its democracy. Today the average Pakistani is seeing a different face, not too dissimilar in fact to what happened to us during Zia's time.

This kind of radicalization of the average India against the average Pakistani I feel is far more dangerous than any animosity at the state level. That's my point...

 

[OoparCut]

Is that really true though? I agree that it was a pretty bold step by Modi, and that there were irritants after that, but I'm seeing the appetite for peace in the average Indian way lower than the appetite for peace in the average Pakistani. For one you could play cricket. I don't think Indians realize how much of animosity they are building up in the average moderate Pakistani through this ill-judged refusal to play Pakistan. Don't you guys remember Jeet Lo Dil? That also took place in the scene of incredible tensions between the two countries.

So average moderate Pakistanis are allowed to build up animosity by the refusal to play cricket. But average moderate Indians have to keep supporting "peace" with Pakistan while terror attacks keep happening in India. And Pakistani government keeps laughing in the face of requests to punish the murderers like Masood Azhar, Saeed etc? That list is quite long.

The sense of entitlement in Pakistanis is quite strong.

I don't think Indians realize how much of harm this government is doing to India's soft power in Pakistan. I can attest having grown up there in the 90's that despite everything there was a grudging appreciation and at good times, even affection, for India thanks to the soft power that was there through cinema, music, cricket and even its democracy. Today the average Pakistani is seeing a different face, not too dissimilar in fact to what happened to us during Zia's time.

This kind of radicalization of the average India against the average Pakistani I feel is far more dangerous than any animosity at the state level. That's my point...

Well 30+ years of terror attacks on innocent Indians has built up a lot of animosity towards Pakistan in the average Indian. It will take significant changes in Pakistani policy for that situation to improve.

I really fail to understand how educated mature Pakistanis can continue justifying and supporting their government's use of terror as a instrument of state policy against India, and on top of that, complain about Indian attitudes towards Pakistan. Until that changes, I'm pessimistic about meaningful improvement in the situation.

 

[Varun]

Well that's the problem right. I don't think Indians realize how much of harm this government is doing to India's soft power in Pakistan. I can attest having grown up there in the 90's that despite everything there was a grudging appreciation and at good times, even affection, for India thanks to the soft power that was there through cinema, music, cricket and even its democracy. Today the average Pakistani is seeing a different face, not too dissimilar in fact to what happened to us during Zia's time.

This kind of radicalization of the average India against the average Pakistani I feel is far more dangerous than any animosity at the state level. That's my point...

Interesting to hear that point of view, and I can't say I've heard that being mentioned before.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

So average moderate Pakistanis are allowed to build up animosity by the refusal to play cricket. But average moderate Indians have to keep supporting "peace" with Pakistan while terror attacks keep happening in India. And Pakistani government keeps laughing in the face of requests to punish the murderers like Masood Azhar, Saeed etc? That list is quite long.

The sense of entitlement in Pakistanis is quite strong.


Well 30+ years of terror attacks on innocent Indians has built up a lot of animosity towards Pakistan in the average Indian. It will take significant changes in Pakistani policy for that situation to improve.

I really fail to understand how educated mature Pakistanis can continue justifying and supporting their government's use of terror as a instrument of state policy against India, and on top of that, complain about Indian attitudes towards Pakistan. Until that changes, I'm pessimistic about meaningful improvement in the situation.

Oh come off your high horse. Your acting like India is some angel that has done no wrong and is being hurt by bad old Pakistan. If you were a bit more mature then you would know that India has made a lot of mistakes as well, especially with regards to Kashmir and the ongoing repression there. Is that justified? For most Pakistanis, a person killed in the Kashmir valley is a Pakistani who has been killed by India. That's state-sponsored terrorism in our opinion. Why can't you stop that as a prerequisite for talks like you claim about Saeed/Azhar? Can it only be one directional?

See how it's so easy to only look at things from your side and ignore real issues raised by the other side? If you were less of a jingoist and actually looked at how Pakistan can judge India by capabilities not action (though that isn't too great either), you'd realize that one-sided judgements rarely are useful.

Nobody is justifying Pakistan's use of proxies. In fact, I abhor it as it has given us nothing but pain for very little gain. However, your own diplomatic/military analyst say that between 2001-2008 when India and Pakistan were talking when Musharraf was in power, the incidents of violence almost reduced to a zero. That's cause Pakistan had a genuine reason to go and reign in these elements, despite the potential backlash as it was clear Vajpayee actually wanted peace and the people on both sides of the border did as well.

Tell me now what do we gain from unilaterally going and doing the same today, when all we will get in return in internal backlash from these radicalized groups, in the environment where India is not going to take any steps to peace? It's simply geopolitics. More importantly, India is the bigger, more secure neighbour. The onus is on the bigger neighbour to make more steps towards peace cause they can actually afford it. That's just how mature foreign policy works.

 

[www787]

Pray, enlighten us: who would you vote to be as PM of India, given the chance?

The dud that is Rahul Gandhi right?

Gradual rise and freedom to be radical religious extremist is more dangerous to India than a set back in economy of a few billions by a couple of years. It'll be easy for India to recover from monetary setback but getting out of this hole of religious radicalization will take a long time.

What is frustrating is that whenever someone across the border point out this point most Indians come back with childish argument such as " you hate India, you hate hindu, India is biggest growing Economy"

Rise in religious radicalism hasn't help any country in past century and it will never help any nation in the future. Even, Saudis, probably the most conservative country in the world has realized this concept. Obviously India isn't same as Saudi but I only remember recent incidents in India where the majority went after largest minority in India and both incident took place under the same person in power, Modi.

As much as respectful and sane Indian would like to see safe and prosperous Pakistan, we as Pakistani would like to see the same in India. And, hopefully that is achieved soon.

 

[OoparCut]

Oh come off your high horse. Your acting like India is some angel that has done no wrong and is being hurt by bad old Pakistan. If you were a bit more mature then you would know that India has made a lot of mistakes as well, especially with regards to Kashmir and the ongoing repression there. Is that justified? For most Pakistanis, a person killed in the Kashmir valley is a Pakistani who has been killed by India. That's state-sponsored terrorism in our opinion. Why can't you stop that as a prerequisite for talks like you claim about Saeed/Azhar? Can it only be one directional?

See how it's so easy to only look at things from your side and ignore real issues raised by the other side? If you were less of a jingoist and actually looked at how Pakistan can judge India by capabilities not action (though that isn't too great either), you'd realize that one-sided judgements rarely are useful.

Nobody is justifying Pakistan's use of proxies. In fact, I abhor it as it has given us nothing but pain for very little gain. However, your own diplomatic/military analyst say that between 2001-2008 when India and Pakistan were talking when Musharraf was in power, the incidents of violence almost reduced to a zero. That's cause Pakistan had a genuine reason to go and reign in these elements, despite the potential backlash as it was clear Vajpayee actually wanted peace and the people on both sides of the border did as well.

Tell me now what do we gain from unilaterally going and doing the same today, when all we will get in return in internal backlash from these radicalized groups, in the environment where India is not going to take any steps to peace? It's simply geopolitics. More importantly, India is the bigger, more secure neighbour. The onus is on the bigger neighbour to make more steps towards peace cause they can actually afford it. That's just how mature foreign policy works.

Here we go with the typical laundry list of uninformed one sided talking points. If Pakistanis had genuine care for the suffering of Kashmiris, then they wouldn't instigate and foment violence there - violence with obviously attracts a govt and military response. And that's simple blunt facts - no high horse angel nonsense. Hand on your heart, ask yourself how Pakistan has responded to Baloch separatists, and if you are "mature", well-informed and honest, you will know that most nations respond with force against separatist violence. And tragedies are a result of that. Not defending or justifying any of it. But to claim that "state terrorism" is the precursor to violence in J&K is an outright lie.

And you are right that violence dropped to almost zero in 2001-08. And as a result India and Pakistan were close to making a deal for peace in J&K. What happened in November 2008? Did Indians go on a murdering spree in a Pakistani city? No. Everybody knows that LeT and JeM are under PakMil control. The fact that the culprits are still not punished 10 years after the fact, speaks volumes.

A cynic would argue that the only reason that violence in India dropped off during that time was because PakMil was too busy cleaning up its own mess inside its borders. Now that it has some sort of handle on it, surprise surprise - we are starting to see things heat up in J&K.

And the nonsense about "capabilities"? Delusional Pakmil propaganda. They need to stop this quixotic quest of 'matching' Indian capabilities. Newsflash: nobody in India wants to "invade" pakistan. Of course the "bigger state" is going to have "bigger" capabilities. Deal with it.


Reality is that PakMil is not willing to accept a peace deal in Kashmir on India's terms - so it uses violence as a negotiating tactic. And since it has already tried and failed in going to war, multiple times - it has resorted to the cowardly tactic of "non state actors". Which is cheap for them - only cost is the blood of few misguided "mujahideen".

But such cheap tactics aren't going to be enough force a "bigger state" to give away territory. Its only going to result in violent response - and the ultimate suffering is borne by Kashmiris. PakMil doesn't care about that - because the tragedies are being cynically used to create more ill-will towards India in J&K.


Ultimately, peace is only possible in J&K - if all 3 sides give up violence - and make a deal that involves a "did not lose" scenario for all parties. But you can't expect Indian govt to make deals under the threat of violence. So round and round we go, and the same deadlock continues.

 

[OoparCut]

Gradual rise and freedom to be radical religious extremist is more dangerous to India than a set back in economy of a few billions by a couple of years. It'll be easy for India to recover from monetary setback but getting out of this hole of religious radicalization will take a long time.

What is frustrating is that whenever someone across the border point out this point most Indians come back with childish argument such as " you hate India, you hate hindu, India is biggest growing Economy"

Rise in religious radicalism hasn't help any country in past century and it will never help any nation in the future. Even, Saudis, probably the most conservative country in the world has realized this concept. Obviously India isn't same as Saudi but I only remember recent incidents in India where the majority went after largest minority in India and both incident took place under the same person in power, Modi.

As much as respectful and sane Indian would like to see safe and prosperous Pakistan, we as Pakistani would like to see the same in India. And, hopefully that is achieved soon.

Religious radicalism is cancer. And whether Pakistani posters here believe it or not, overwhelming majority of Indians have no tolerance of radicalism.

There was coverage of how the same goonda was photographed as a "dalit" activist a few days ago, and the same guy was photographed vandalizing public property wearing the colors of the "Karni Sena" during the protests against the Padmavati Movie. I don't know much about caste - but the Karni sena idiots were apparently high-caste Rajputs. Clearly someone can't be dalit and high caste at the same time right? The reality is that there are political mafias employing goons for their own agendas. Its not really a reflection of what the actual people believe or care about.

 

[English August]

Why should posters of a 2.5tn economy which is the fastest growing in the world bother to reply to delusional posters of a 280bn economy that is staring at another IMF bailout, is about to be added to FATF grey list and whose biggest claim is that it will receive some 50bn or 55bn usd in next few years?Any reason? I see none.

Well, are you suggesting that Indians stop posting here altogether? Because all Indians here represent the $2.5T (and rapidly growing) economy and all Pakistanis here represent the floundering $280B economy that's about to knock on the IMF doors. So what's your point?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well, are you suggesting that Indians stop posting here altogether? Because all Indians here represent the $2.5T (and rapidly growing) economy and all Pakistanis here represent the floundering $280B economy that's about to knock on the IMF doors. So what's your point?

Stop taking the bait. Thats all.

 

[dhonixi]

No need to do business with a country who is not trustable. India gave MFN to Pakistan many years ago already but they are never good to do any buisness or trust.

 

[English August]

Stop taking the bait. Thats all.

Given the level of misinformation here re. India, majority of posts here by Indians amount to "taking the bait." I agree it's a waste of time, but social media in general is a waste of time.

It's not as if internet warriors can change or influence anything.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pakistan does not negotiate with terrorists. Look after your children and women before giving advise on an economy that only serves less than 1% of India.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Why should posters of a 2.5tn economy which is the fastest growing in the world bother to reply to delusional posters of a 280bn economy that is staring at another IMF bailout, is about to be added to FATF grey list and whose biggest claim is that it will receive some 50bn or 55bn usd in next few years?Any reason? I see none.

What is this collective superiority complex I sense? You take pride in this "2.5tn economy" as if you have moulded it with the palm of your own hands. You see no reason to reply to us filthy 280 bn economy peasents yet you find the quickest opportunity to add your 2 cents in several threads on these forums.

 

[R3verse Swing]

They crave attention, and love to gloat. That is all. This is expected as they've been neglected for centuries.

The reality is the 2.5T economy Indians speak of doesn't even register on their GDP per Capita vs Pakistan. It in fact sits in the margin of error. In other worlds Indians do not understand the difference between price and value. This doesn't surprise me given the value of life in India comes at a cheap cost of a bullet.

The poor are still poor in India the uneducated remain uneducated, the levels on sanitation remain the same, only the 1% get benefit.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What is this collective superiority complex I sense? You take pride in this "2.5tn economy" as if you have moulded it with the palm of your own hands. You see no reason to reply to us filthy 280 bn economy peasents yet you find the quickest opportunity to add your 2 cents in several threads on these forums.

I have a sense of superiority complex? Really? May be you should read a few posts in this thread and several others where Indians have been baited again and again. So someone needed to be put in his place, be told that Indians do not need lessons on economics from him as Indians have done far better.

It cant be one way traffic, can it?

Every Indian has moulded this country in the palm of their hands. I do not know where you come from but nations are built by its people and the feeling of belonging to that nation despite other differences.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Given the level of misinformation here re. India, majority of posts here by Indians amount to "taking the bait." I agree it's a waste of time, but social media in general is a waste of time.

It's not as if internet warriors can change or influence anything.

Misinformation? There is no misinformation.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I have a sense of superiority complex? Really? May be you should read a few posts in this thread and several others where Indians have been baited again and again. So someone needed to be put in his place, be told that Indians do not need lessons on economics from him as Indians have done far better.

It cant be one way traffic, can it?

Every Indian has moulded this country in the palm of their hands. I do not know where you come from but nations are built by its people and the feeling of belonging to that nation despite other differences.

Saying that you don't see a reason to reply to posts from a poster who belongs to a nation of much weaker economic status is akin to saying you won't talk to people at your workplace who are not doing as financially well as you. It relays a message that you consider the poorer person to be beneath you in every sense of the word. If that's not superiority complex, then I don't know what is.

Conversely, if, say, poster Y on this forum was doing better off financially than you, then would you bother having a conversation with him?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Saying that you don't see a reason to reply to posts from a poster who belongs to a nation of much weaker economic status is akin to saying you won't talk to people at your workplace who are not doing as financially well as you. It relays a message that you consider the poorer person to be beneath you in every sense of the word. If that's not superiority complex, then I don't know what is.

Conversely, if, say, poster Y on this forum was doing better off financially than you, then would you bother having a conversation with him?

My co worker doesnt make disparaging comments on my looks my built my ancestry my culture or my economic means or my ability etc, if he did i would put him in his place.

Did you read the posts on this thread about India?

That post was made for one particular poster.