Pakistan launches locally made anti-Covid vaccine ‘PakVac’

[sensible-indian-fan]

It had received "Emergency Authorization" which made sense given the circumstances.

No I get that.

I am saying we were quite confident it would work even without Phase 3 trials.

Surely there must be a good reason for it.

Was asking about that reason cos PM of a country won't take a vaccine unless the medical authorities are super sure it will all be good.

 

[cric_man]

Do you trust data coming from China?

Well there are no travel bans to China that I know of. Their factories are operating at full capacity (I personally know of that). And I don't believe people are dying on the streets gasping for air.

So what can you make some inference from that as to how they are managing their COVID outbreaks?

Chinese vaccines may not be 95% efficacy but they are neither totally in-effective. If you have 70% plus efficacy where it stops most of hospitalizations i-e you may get sick but able to get better out side of getting admitted it should be good enough esp. if it is a 1 shot regimen like J&J or SinoVac.

 

[Napa]

How is Covid under control in China if their vaccines are ineffective?

No idea. I was quoting a Reuters news article, and they have documented failure to control Covid in countries that received the Chinese vaccnine.

 

[Napa]

No I get that.

I am saying we were quite confident it would work even without Phase 3 trials.

Surely there must be a good reason for it.

Was asking about that reason cos PM of a country won't take a vaccine unless the medical authorities are super sure it will all be good.

It passed Phase 2 trial earlier, so there was reason to be confident. Phase 2 is not as reliable as Phase 3 as it has a smaller sample, but it provides a lot of information nonetheless.

 

[Itachi]

Well there are no travel bans to China that I know of. Their factories are operating at full capacity (I personally know of that). And I don't believe people are dying on the streets gasping for air.

So what can you make some inference from that as to how they are managing their COVID outbreaks?

Chinese vaccines may not be 95% efficacy but they are neither totally in-effective. If you have 70% plus efficacy where it stops most of hospitalizations i-e you may get sick but able to get better out side of getting admitted it should be good enough esp. if it is a 1 shot regimen like J&J or SinoVac.

You didn't answer my question.

Do you trust data coming out from China or not?

 

[ahsan17]

You didn't answer my question.

Do you trust data coming out from China or not?

He did answer your question, in a round about way.

When it comes to cases, the best indicator is hospital and ICU occupancies. Not to mention, what the public is reporting on the ground. Now western countries can get information out of remote places like Xinjiang. But hospital and ICU information out of highly populated areas where public can easily report such information cannot be trusted? Give me a break.

 

[Itachi]

He did answer your question, in a round about way.

When it comes to cases, the best indicator is hospital and ICU occupancies. Not to mention, what the public is reporting on the ground. Now western countries can get information out of remote places like Xinjiang. But hospital and ICU information out of highly populated areas where public can easily report such information cannot be trusted? Give me a break.

No round about way. it's a simple boolean question with only one answer out of two possible. I don't need the explanation.

Do you trust the data coming from China?

The possible answer is yes or no.

And I've realized that criticizing China irks you more than criticising Pakistan. I wonder why.

 

[ahsan17]

No round about way. it's a simple boolean question with only one answer out of two possible. I don't need the explanation.

Do you trust the data coming from China?

The possible answer is yes or no.

And I've realized that criticizing China irks you more than criticising Pakistan. I wonder why.

Nope - you are indulging in what's called a false dilemma fallacy. Some data can be trusted from China, some cannot be. The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted for reasons I just mentioned. Hope that answers your question. It seems like some people throw nuances out of the window and make things appear black and white when they should know better.

And I am not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else because I am usually not involved in China topics.

 

[Itachi]

Nope - you are indulging in what's called a false dilemma fallacy. Some data can be trusted from China, some cannot be. The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted for reasons I just mentioned. Hope that answers your question. It seems like some people throw nuances out of the window and make things appear black and white when they should know better.

And I am not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else because I am usually not involved in China topics.

"The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted for reasons I just mentioned."

You are still going roundabout way. I am narrowing it down.

The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted as written by you.

Do YOU trust those data?

(can be trusted and trusting something are two very different aspects. I can say that a person X can be trusted but that doesn't mean I trust X.)

 

[King-Misbah]

"The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted for reasons I just mentioned."

You are still going roundabout way. I am narrowing it down.

The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted as written by you.

Do YOU trust those data?

(can be trusted and trusting something are two very different aspects. I can say that a person X can be trusted but that doesn't mean I trust X.)

Its quite simple, I know Indians do not like Chinese succeeding but life in China is going on as normal now with very little effects of COVID-19. This shows that their data is accurate, no city in China has oxygen shortage, dead bodies in rivers or hospital bed shortages. Their control of the virus, vaccination drive made this happen.

 

[Bewal Express]

"The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted for reasons I just mentioned."

You are still going roundabout way. I am narrowing it down.

The data about lockdown and virus spread can be trusted as written by you.

Do YOU trust those data?

(can be trusted and trusting something are two very different aspects. I can say that a person X can be trusted but that doesn't mean I trust X.)

And you think that in the digital age they would be able to hide 1000s of deaths for a more than a few days?

 

[Itachi]

Its quite simple, I know Indians do not like Chinese succeeding but life in China is going on as normal now with very little effects of COVID-19. This shows that their data is accurate, no city in China has oxygen shortage, dead bodies in rivers or hospital bed shortages. Their control of the virus, vaccination drive made this happen.

I am asking a simple question to which everyone is going round about.

Do YOU trust the data coming from China or not?

Yes or no?

 

[Itachi]

And you think that in the digital age they would be able to hide 1000s of deaths for a more than a few days?

OBL was hiding in Pakistan for years. Anything is possible.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am asking a simple question to which everyone is going round about.

Do YOU trust the data coming from China or not?

Yes or no?

Yes.

 

[cric_man]

You didn't answer my question.

Do you trust data coming out from China or not?

What are you going on about?
Trusting data about which subject? It is not boolean yes or no it is in between. You then try to independently corroborate any piece of data you get from secondary source. That is what I did.

With China, it is not trusting data but rather access to official data. They are highly protective about their National image (Much like you lot -- Remember you got bent out of shape along with Joshilay about the NYT article question official Indian COVID death figures) and have not released any significant data regarding COVID related impact on their society.

Question at hand that you asked "Do you trust Chinese data?" I assumed it was related to COVID and effectiveness of their vaccines and not a blanket accusation questioning each and every aspect of life in China.
On that subject, China stated that as of last week, they have administered over 1bn doses of home made vaccines. That would mean, they have conservatively inoculated over 500m people (more if the mix of 1 shot sinovac is greater). You can infer from that they are getting closer to getting herd immunity and effectively beating the virus. That reflects in how life is currently in China. Factories are open, schools are open, there is no city wide lock down (that we know of). And other countries have not put them on any Red, blue, amber lists...


Below are some articles from Indian sources that have questioned indian government's official economic numbers published in the recent past. Essentially saying the official GDP were blatantly fudged. By your logic, should this be taken as we cannot trust any sort of information presented by the Indian Government?

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ers-does-no-good-to-economy/story/331960.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...conomists-create-own-benchmarks-idUSKCN1SF0L6

 

[Itachi]

What are you going on about?
Trusting data about which subject? It is not boolean yes or no it is in between. You then try to independently corroborate any piece of data you get from secondary source. That is what I did.

With China, it is not trusting data but rather access to official data. They are highly protective about their National image (Much like you lot -- Remember you got bent out of shape along with Joshilay about the NYT article question official Indian COVID death figures) and have not released any significant data regarding COVID related impact on their society.

Question at hand that you asked "Do you trust Chinese data?" I assumed it was related to COVID and effectiveness of their vaccines and not a blanket accusation questioning each and every aspect of life in China.
On that subject, China stated that as of last week, they have administered over 1bn doses of home made vaccines. That would mean, they have conservatively inoculated over 500m people (more if the mix of 1 shot sinovac is greater). You can infer from that they are getting closer to getting herd immunity and effectively beating the virus. That reflects in how life is currently in China. Factories are open, schools are open, there is no city wide lock down (that we know of). And other countries have not put them on any Red, blue, amber lists...


Below are some articles from Indian sources that have questioned indian government's official economic numbers published in the recent past. Essentially saying the official GDP were blatantly fudged. By your logic, should this be taken as we cannot trust any sort of information presented by the Indian Government?

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ers-does-no-good-to-economy/story/331960.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...conomists-create-own-benchmarks-idUSKCN1SF0L6

long post but no answer.

I already narrowed it down. "Do you trust data coming from China regarding covid?"

I am not in to what official data says because I can find it otherwise by simple googling.

What I am asking is, do YOU trust the covid data coming from China?

I am surprised except one, all other are writing long replies but no one seems to give a concrete answer.

Its a simple yes or no question.

either you trust or do not trust. it's not hard.

 

[cric_man]

long post but no answer.

I already narrowed it down. "Do you trust data coming from China regarding covid?"

I am not in to what official data says because I can find it otherwise by simple googling.

What I am asking is, do YOU trust the covid data coming from China?

I am surprised except one, all other are writing long replies but no one seems to give a concrete answer.

Its a simple yes or no question.

either you trust or do not trust. it's not hard.

Enough of this. I have given you the answer but you are being deliberately obstinate to stick to your biases. Yes I trust the data coming out of China (even though it is very limited) as I can corroborate it with secondary sources of data which I have mentioned in my posts above.

 

[Itachi]

Enough of this. I have given you the answer but you are being deliberately obstinate to stick to your biases. Yes I trust the data coming out of China (even though it is very limited) as I can corroborate it with secondary sources of data which I have mentioned in my posts above.

So your answer is yes. why I had to push so hard?

 

[cric_man]

So your answer is yes. why I had to push so hard?

You were just being obstunate and trying to further your political agenda and biases against China.
There is no boolean yes/no in data. I am a data analyst and I do this for a living. Every piece of data and its source has a confidence level and you use the information in your analysis based on that. I sometimes consume official US Treasury published numbers but still look at secondary and tertiary sources to corroborate.

Now answer my question that I posted above. It was found out that GoI fudged economic number vis a vis GDP growth, so do you trust GoI data? Do you really think on 250k people have died due to COVID so far (as stated officially) in India?

 

[Itachi]

You were just being obstunate and trying to further your political agenda and biases against China.
There is no boolean yes/no in data. I am a data analyst and I do this for a living. Every piece of data and its source has a confidence level and you use the information in your analysis based on that. I sometimes consume official US Treasury published numbers but still look at secondary and tertiary sources to corroborate.

Now answer my question that I posted above. It was found out that GoI fudged economic number vis a vis GDP growth, so do you trust GoI data? Do you really think on 250k people have died due to COVID so far (as stated officially) in India?

You didn't understand what I was saying. Whether you trust or not, it is based upon your own judgement regardless of data.

For example, people believe in God even though none have met him. They trust Him so much that they dedicate their lives toward HIM as written by the scriptures. But I don't trust those scriptures regardless what is written there.

You don't need to be a data analyst to make that decision. Rightly or wrongly even a lay man can make that judgement.

To answer your question, yes, I trust GOI data.

 

[cric_man]

You didn't understand what I was saying. Whether you trust or not, it is based upon your own judgement regardless of data.

For example, people believe in God even though none have met him. They trust Him so much that they dedicate their lives toward HIM as written by the scriptures. But I don't trust those scriptures regardless what is written there.

You don't need to be a data analyst to make that decision. Rightly or wrongly even a lay man can make that judgement.

To answer your question, yes, I trust GOI data.

Hopefully you don't make decision based on your gut feeling...
Things like the above leads to disinformation and potentially fatal consequences.

 

[Bewal Express]

OBL was hiding in Pakistan for years. Anything is possible.

Is it hard to hide one man? On the other hand, it's very hard to hide 1000s dying

 

[Itachi]

Enough of this. I have given you the answer but you are being deliberately obstinate to stick to your biases. Yes I trust the data coming out of China (even though it is very limited) as I can corroborate it with secondary sources of data which I have mentioned in my posts above.

NYT article?

is that the one where they surveyed some 30,000 people and then extrapolated it to a billion?

I thought you were a data analyst. Can you calculate the margin of error in that extrapolation?

 

[Itachi]

Is it hard to hide one man? On the other hand, it's very hard to hide 1000s dying

It is HARD to hide even one man in this DIGITAL AGE when everyone is searching for him.

No one is searching for those 1000s of people.

 

[cric_man]

NYT article?

is that the one where they surveyed some 30,000 people and then extrapolated it to a billion?

I thought you were a data analyst. Can you calculate the margin of error in that extrapolation?

Comprehension issue. Please go back and re-read my comment. That was stated in a different context altogether. Nothing to do with analyzing the data.