Pakistan slips to fifth place in ICC Test Team Rankings

[Abdullah719]

Pakistan has slipped two places to fifth position on the MRF Tyres ICC Test Team Rankings after a 3-0 loss to Australia which culminated with a 220-run defeat in Sydney on Saturday.

The Misbah-ul-Haq-led side lost five points to finish with 97 points after the series, just one point ahead of New Zealand and Sri Lanka. It was the sixth consecutive Test loss for Pakistan including a 2-0 loss to New Zealand in a preceding series.

Pakistan, which had led the rankings last year following a 2-2 draw in England during a four-match series in July-August, was tied with South Africa on 102 points before the Australia series but was ahead on decimal points. South Africa and England (101) are now both ahead of Pakistan.

Australia has consolidated its second position, gaining four points and moving up to 109 points, 11 points behind India. But South Africa could bridge the gap as it looks set to gain more points when the rankings are updated after its ongoing three-Test series against Sri Lanka which it leads 2-0.

South Africa could go up to 107 points with a 3-0 win and to 105 points if it wins 2-0. Even if Sri Lanka wins the last Test in Johannesburg next week, South Africa will gain two points to reach 104 points with a 2-1 series result.

[table= class:grid][tr][td]Rank[/td][td]Team[/td][td]Points[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]India[/td][td]120[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]Australia[/td][td]109 (+4)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]South Africa[/td][td]102[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]England[/td][td]101[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]Pakistan[/td][td]97 (-5)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]New Zealand[/td][td]96[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7[/td][td]Sri Lanka[/td][td]96[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8[/td][td]West Indies[/td][td]69[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9[/td][td]Bangladesh[/td][td]65[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10[/td][td]Zimbabwe[/td][td]5[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[Syed1]

Thank you Misbah, what would we ever do without you

 

[JibranAnsari]

Pakistan will be number 6 after nz whitewashes bd.

 

[Zak_Fan]

This is when Pakistan's first away cycle is yet to be completed, and then you will have another one before the true ranking is reflected. It is surely the right time to find a new captain and rebuild.

 

[James]

Those rankings now actually look correct for once.

 

[Anis10]

Couple of UAE whitewash series wins will bring us back up and then a couple of away whitewash losses will bring us back down.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

No worries.We'll come back up again.

 

[arehaan]

Australia will be back to 4 after India tour

 

[Mamoon]

We were told that Pakistan is the best team in the world.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I always accepted the rankings.

We were one because we hadn't played away yet. When we did, we rightfully got back to our place.

When we play in UAE again, we have another chance to climb back to one again.

 

[LastManstanding]

I always accepted the rankings.

We were one because we hadn't played away yet. When we did, we rightfully got back to our place.

When we play in UAE again, we have another chance to climb back to one again.

Pakistan are 5th because they haven't been ruthless enough in UAE. If you start whitewashing teams there, it will provide cushion for the ranking when you tour.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Pakistan are 5th because they haven't been ruthless enough in UAE. If you start whitewashing teams there, it will provide cushion for the ranking when you tour.

Can't be ruthless with impotent bowlers and aging batsmen.

Let's see what future brings.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Fair reflection of performances.

Feel SA is steadily climbing to getting back to their old self. Asia will be their biggest challenge.

 

[Chrish]

All teams look invincible at home, don't they? Truly dire state of affair

 

[jeetu]

Pakistan's rank will improve dramatically on UAE tests , but they can't afford to lose tests to the teams like West Indies.

 

[Solid Snake]

In this day and age, teams will be yo-yo-ing up and down quite a bit.

Instead of taking consolation in the fact that a cycle of home tours is coming up and we can climb up several places according to a somewhat flawed formula, we should be thinking more long term and invest in building a team that can perform well in all conditions.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Australia will get demolished in India so I expect to see them back at number 4 spot soon. Best case scenario for Pakistan would be to hope Bangladesh puts up some sort of a performance against New Zealand, at least draw a test for Pakistan to stay above New Z.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Pakistan's rank will improve dramatically on UAE tests , but they can't afford to lose tests to the teams like West Indies.

They will climb up, but it won't be a dramatic improvement. Even after playing in Asia for an unbelievably long time, Pakistan's peak rating was near 110 I think. To climb back to top-3 for a substantial amount of time, they will need to maintain similar rating despite all the foreign tours.

So, unless they get into the habit of whitewashing teams in UAE, Pakistan becoming top-3 again seems unlikely.

 

[khurram39]

We will be # 6 soon and its not impossible to hold # 7. May be Pakistan is thinking that Higher number results in higher position.

 

[Cricket World]

New Zealand will Bangladesh and climb to no six so in couple of weeks time we will be 7th competing with Sri Lanka

 

[spade]

The rankings are really a farce. Sri Lanka are on an upswing and they have found a set of good young players who can play long for their country and they will get better from here. Pakistan will have to get rid of the old baggage they have been carrying both in batting and bowling and find young players who can step up. At present they have no future at all, specially their bowling is the worst in the sub-continent.

1. India
2. England
3. South Africa
4. Sri Lanka
5. Australia
6. West indies
7. Pakistan
8. New Zealand

 

[Rafay Shafiq]

Ranking methodology is flawed but like faulty, stopped watch also tell correct time twice a day, similarly this ranking seems true.

 

[Rafay Shafiq]

Pakistan will be number 6 after nz whitewashes bd.

When misbah left ODI captaincy, Pakistan were 7th or 8th in ODI. Now, at what test ranking will misbah leave test captaincy?

 

[Aman]

SA at 2, Pakistan at 4 and England at 5 is where things truly are.

I think we might be better than England too, but they still have credit from that SA series.

Other than that they have been quite mediocre.

Nothing at home and mediocre away (if you exclude SA).

 

[Aman]

Pakistan are 5th because they haven't been ruthless enough in UAE. If you start whitewashing teams there, it will provide cushion for the ranking when you tour.

How do you explain England being at 4 when they have been pathetic at home and even worse away?

 

[soso_killer]

Rankings look just about right IMO.

 

[Mamoon]

As I said before, 5th/6th is the true reflection of this rubbish team.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

When misbah left ODI captaincy, Pakistan were 7th or 8th in ODI. Now, at what test ranking will misbah leave test captaincy?

may be after replacing zim

 

[Shafi]

Should be 9. 5 is too much for this pathetic team. Next year we will be whitewashed by Bangladesh in Bangladesh

 

[tanveer din]

Ranking test teams.......(By Tanveer)

In my view in keeping view the future and potential(not past) the following is my ranking......

1-South Africa
2-India
3-Australia
4-England
5-New zealand
6-Westindies
7-Pakistan
8-Srilanka
9-Bangladesh
10-Zimbabwe

Agree or not? If not Give reasons

 

[MRSN]

so we are just 1 point away from Mathews rookie Sri Lanka? [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Misbah the greatest test captain myth busted before even it could start.

 

[MRSN]

In my view in keeping view the future and potential(not past) the following is my ranking......

1-South Africa
2-India
3-Australia
4-England
5-New zealand
6-Westindies
7-Pakistan
8-Srilanka
9-Bangladesh
10-Zimbabwe

Agree or not? If not Give reasons

Misbah's short term policies for his personal glory and continuing his stay in the team has lead to such shameful and embarrassing defeats overseas. It's again the time to rebuild..what was Misbah doing all these 6 years?

 

[Napa]

In my view in keeping view the future and potential(not past) the following is my ranking......

1-South Africa
2-India
3-Australia
4-England
5-New zealand
6-Westindies
7-Pakistan
8-Srilanka
9-Bangladesh
10-Zimbabwe

Agree or not? If not Give reasons

Disagree. Can't have SA over India when they just lost 0-3 to India.

 

[moghul]

Let's take Misbah to West Indies and we will be competing Zimbabwe in ranking.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

So Misbah took Captaincy 5 years ago and we were ranked number 5. Under his captaincy we became World Number 1 Test team and now months later when he is retiring we are World Number 5 again.

 

[EliteCynical]

There is nothing to be depressed about. Every team is abysmal abroad (except SA which failed in India alone). I would say, fans should level set their expectations whenever their teams tour. It is a given that the rankings of the team and players would fall after a tour to SA or Aus. These things happen, rankings would rise again after a good home series.

The countries should plan contingency for future and I am happy India is doing that under Dravid for India A and U19. Someday in the future, it would reap rewards.

What Pakistan needs to do is something i cannot say because everything there is has been said here.

 

[R0H1T]

So Misbah took Captaincy 5 years ago and we were ranked number 5. Under his captaincy we became World Number 1 Test team and now months later when he is retiring we are World Number 5 again.

Is he though, I thought he needed some more time?

 

[msb314]

Well deserved and I hope we continue to slide down even further...

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Is he though, I thought he needed some more time?

Some more time to land at his home soil and announce.

 

[Robert]

England look too high at #5

 

[Pete Rose]

Rankings fluctuate.

 

[Hasan123]

South Africa vs India regardless of who is the home team seems to be the most exciting series. Most of the other games the home team is favourite

 

[Buffet]

First time I am seeing so many posters agreeing with official ranking...

 

[Pakistanian]

Back where we belong! Thank god, first place is too stressful!

 

[R0H1T]

Back where we belong! Thank god, first place is too stressful!

The Iron Throne :GoT

 

[King Kong]

Like many, I too overrated this England team. They should be behind Pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

We need to play some easier teams now. Australia and New Zealand where right offs to begin with.

 

[yasir]

Those rankings now actually look correct for once.

Not really, India is so far ahead because of playing 13 test at home and that too against all western teams (WI,NZ,ENG,AUS), none of them play in India well anymore...Its like AUS play India,PAK,SL,WI all at home in one season to get 12 test wins... That does not reflect the true ranking... Ranking system should value lot more away wins and devalues home wins... They also need to make rules for these series to be competitive, like get away with toss...There are hardly any series that are competitive, SA won in AUS because they have same home conditions as AUS...This is not a good situation for test cricket...

 

[Zak_Fan]

Not really, India is so far ahead because of playing 13 test at home and that too against all western teams (WI,NZ,ENG,AUS), none of them play in India well anymore...Its like AUS play India,PAK,SL,WI all at home in one season to get 12 test wins... That does not reflect the true ranking... Ranking system should value lot more away wins and devalues home wins... They also need to make rules for these series to be competitive, like get away with toss...There are hardly any series that are competitive, SA won in AUS because they have same home conditions as AUS...This is not a good situation for test cricket...

Nonsense. So a side that is rubbish at home and great away should rank above a side that is great at home and rubbish away?

As for India being so far ahead, it isn't just because of home Tests, but it is also because India is one of the few sides that holds it's own away too.

 

[Tridibans_16]

Not really, India is so far ahead because of playing 13 test at home and that too against all western teams (WI,NZ,ENG,AUS), none of them play in India well anymore...Its like AUS play India,PAK,SL,WI all at home in one season to get 12 test wins... That does not reflect the true ranking... Ranking system should value lot more away wins and devalues home wins... They also need to make rules for these series to be competitive, like get away with toss...There are hardly any series that are competitive, SA won in AUS because they have same home conditions as AUS...This is not a good situation for test cricket...

FYI, India drew and lost 50% of its matches last time they toured SA (0-1), NZ (0-1), AUS (0-2) and won in SL (2-1) and WI (2-0). Compare that to teams like Aus/ Eng/ Pak who get whitewashed away from home.

 

[yasir]

Nonsense. So a side that is rubbish at home and great away should rank above a side that is great at home and rubbish away?

The real test is Asian team winning in West and Western team winning in Asia... That's what makes test cricket great. There is nothing special about winning at home, specially Asian against West or Vice Versa...

As for India being so far ahead, it isn't just because of home Tests, but it is also because India is one of the few sides that holds it's own away too.

When was the last time India has won test series in Aus, SA, ENG,NZ?? - They has been as rubbish as everybody else. They have never won a test series in AUS/SA like every other Asia team, even they have not won full series in ENG either, ever. Nobody consider this Indian team special, except Indians, they like to brag about mathematical formula that puts them on top, right now they are 10 points ahead, they maybe 20 by end of the season, but are they really that good, not at all...If you keep on playing on same pitches series after series and other team is changing, oppositiion is really at disadvantage, 13 continuous test in a season at home is huge advantage.

You really earn respect when you start winning abroad. Rest is just a number, nobody talks about who was no 1 in a particular year, everybody knows the WIs of 70/80s and Auses of 2000s, rest of the teams don't stand out a whole lot...

 

[tanveer din]

There is nothing to be depressed about. Every team is abysmal abroad (except SA which failed in India alone). I would say, fans should level set their expectations whenever their teams tour. It is a given that the rankings of the team and players would fall after a tour to SA or Aus. These things happen, rankings would rise again after a good home series.

The countries should plan contingency for future and I am happy India is doing that under Dravid for India A and U19. Someday in the future, it would reap rewards.

What Pakistan needs to do is something i cannot say because everything there is has been said here.

Everyone is not abysmal,they actually knows to draw matches unlike this rubbish team, my mean hamilton 2016, melbourne 2016 even my town team would have save that

 

[tanveer din]

The real test is Asian team winning in West and Western team winning in Asia... That's what makes test cricket great. There is nothing special about winning at home, specially Asian against West or Vice Versa...



When was the last time India has won test series in Aus, SA, ENG,NZ?? - They has been as rubbish as everybody else. They have never won a test series in AUS/SA like every other Asia team, even they have not won full series in ENG either, ever. Nobody consider this Indian team special, except Indians, they like to brag about mathematical formula that puts them on top, right now they are 10 points ahead, they maybe 20 by end of the season, but are they really that good, not at all...If you keep on playing on same pitches series after series and other team is changing, oppositiion is really at disadvantage, 13 continuous test in a season at home is huge advantage.

You really earn respect when you start winning abroad. Rest is just a number, nobody talks about who was no 1 in a particular year, everybody knows the WIs of 70/80s and Auses of 2000s, rest of the teams don't stand out a whole lot...

Everyone is not abysmal,they actually knows to draw matches unlike this rubbish team, my mean hamilton 2016, melbourne 2016 even my town team would have save that - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Team-Rankings&p=9043593&posted=1#post9043593

 

[Zak_Fan]

When was the last time India has won test series in Aus, SA, ENG,NZ?? - They has been as rubbish as everybody else. They have never won a test series in AUS/SA like every other Asia team, even they have not won full series in ENG either, ever. Nobody consider this Indian team special, except Indians, they like to brag about mathematical formula that puts them on top, right now they are 10 points ahead, they maybe 20 by end of the season, but are they really that good, not at all...If you keep on playing on same pitches series after series and other team is changing, oppositiion is really at disadvantage, 13 continuous test in a season at home is huge advantage.

You really earn respect when you start winning abroad. Rest is just a number, nobody talks about who was no 1 in a particular year, everybody knows the WIs of 70/80s and Auses of 2000s, rest of the teams don't stand out a whole lot...

Again, typical bitter rant that is completely out of touch with reality. Drawing half the Tests away with occasional wins is far better than getting whitewashed series after series. It isn't just a mathematical formula, but a fact that takes India to a rightful #1 spot.

As for 13 consecutive Tests you are talking about, what are those? India reached #1 even before the home season started. Name one team right now that can actually dream of that today.

Before the home season started, India played series after series away... was that fair? How many of you cried about the unfair advantage other teams had over India? None. But now that it is India's turn to play home matches, there are many like you who find it extremely hard to digest.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Not really, India is so far ahead because of playing 13 test at home and that too against all western teams (WI,NZ,ENG,AUS), none of them play in India well anymore...Its like AUS play India,PAK,SL,WI all at home in one season to get 12 test wins... That does not reflect the true ranking... Ranking system should value lot more away wins and devalues home wins... They also need to make rules for these series to be competitive, like get away with toss...There are hardly any series that are competitive, SA won in AUS because they have same home conditions as AUS...This is not a good situation for test cricket...

Let me add to why I think it will be a horrible idea. A couple of points -

1) Firstly, sides like Sri Lanka and Pakistan play a bucketload of Tests in Asia, half of which would count as "away" matches. But for India, away tours are mostly England, South Africa and Australia as we rarely tour UAE, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. So, how exactly do you plan to differentiate between these "away" matches?

2) Secondly, like I mentioned before, why would you even rate away matches >> home matches? Imagine a scenario where an Asian side starts getting whitewashed in Asia, but wins away. How in the world would you rank this side above another Asian side that blanks teams in Asia but gets whitewashed away? What logic is it?

 

[yasir]

Again, typical bitter rant that is completely out of touch with reality. Drawing half the Tests away with occasional wins is far better than getting whitewashed series after series. It isn't just a mathematical formula, but a fact that takes India to a rightful #1 spot.

As for 13 consecutive Tests you are talking about, what are those? India reached #1 even before the home season started. Name one team right now that can actually dream of that today.

Before the home season started, India played series after series away... was that fair? How many of you cried about the unfair advantage other teams had over India? None. But now that it is India's turn to play home matches, there are many like you who find it extremely hard to digest.

Did India win any test in AUS,NZ,SA?? - Drawing is achievement but not that make you so far ahead. We actually drew a full series in England, which nobody was able to do in last 6/7 season(including AUS/SA), so what??

Only away series you won was against WI(Which is at continual decline) and SL(which is still in Asia, we won there too)... I did not see any flying achievements, its again mathematical no 1... When you are going to win a series in ENG,SA,AUS,NZ then we will talk...All this ICC ranking is just a BS

 

[Zak_Fan]

Did India win any test in AUS,NZ,SA?? - Drawing is achievement but not that make you so far ahead. We actually drew a full series in England, which nobody was able to do in last 6/7 season(including AUS/SA), so what??

Only away series you won was against WI(Which is at continual decline) and SL(which is still in Asia, we won there too)... I did not see any flying achievements, its again mathematical no 1... When you are going to win a series in ENG,SA,AUS,NZ then we will talk...All this ICC ranking is just a BS

How does that stop India from being better than everyone else? Keeping overall home-away record in mind, which other side do you think deserves to be #1? Since ICC rankings are BS, how about we see yours?

 

[Tridibans_16]

Also, this same ranking made Pakistan no.1 for 2 weeks. Now we are no.1 As things stand, if somehow we win a test or two in our next away cycle, and manage to win in NZ (doable as last time McCullum stood between us winning and losing the series 0-1), we are sure to be no.1 till 2020 atleast.

 

[Tridibans_16]

Also, this same ranking made Pakistan no.1 for 2 weeks. Now we are no.1 As things stand, if somehow we win a test or two in our next away cycle, and manage to win in NZ (doable as last time McCullum stood between us winning and losing the series 0-1), we are sure to be no.1 till 2020 atleast.

In 2017, we have the following lined up

v BAN (1 test, home)
v AUS (4 tests, home)
v SL (3 tests, away)
v RSA (4 tests, away)

In 2018,

v ENG (5 tests, away)
v SL (3 tests, home)
v AUS (4 tests, away)

In 2019,

v NZ (3 tests, away)
v WI (3 tests, home)
v RSA (4 tests, home)

If we can manage to draw in SA and win a test or two in ENG/AUS 2018, we will surely be the no.1 team for the foreseeable future.

 

[yasir]

Ranking system should be overhaul to reflect the difficult nature of test cricket. Simple top team winning from lower rank model is not good reflection(which is taken from other sports)...There are many factors, like us winning on bounce and pace, fans value those aspects lot more than just home series win, that should be reflected in the ranking...Drawing away series, specially in alien conditions should be value lot more than home wins...Again the idea is to incentivize tough series, it cannot be linear scale...We need to come up with Duck-Worth-Lewis kind of algorithm for ranking... Cricket is not simple sports, home and away is not just about home-crowd, there is lot more to it.

Right now there is no stand out team, after SA(when they were undefeated away from home for 8 years), it has not been for many years...

 

[yasir]

In 2017, we have the following lined up

v BAN (1 test, home)
v AUS (4 tests, home)
v SL (3 tests, away)
v RSA (4 tests, away)

In 2018,

v ENG (5 tests, away)
v SL (3 tests, home)
v AUS (4 tests, away)

In 2019,

v NZ (3 tests, away)
v WI (3 tests, home)
v RSA (4 tests, home)

If we can manage to draw in SA and win a test or two in ENG/AUS 2018, we will surely be the no.1 team for the foreseeable future.

All these away tours will bring lot of Indian fans back to earth... Lot of Pakistanis are back now

 

[MRSN]

Not really, India is so far ahead because of playing 13 test at home and that too against all western teams (WI,NZ,ENG,AUS), none of them play in India well anymore...Its like AUS play India,PAK,SL,WI all at home in one season to get 12 test wins... That does not reflect the true ranking... Ranking system should value lot more away wins and devalues home wins... They also need to make rules for these series to be competitive, like get away with toss...There are hardly any series that are competitive, SA won in AUS because they have same home conditions as AUS...This is not a good situation for test cricket...

great point raised by you sir. I completely agree with you.

ICC should make amendments in ranking system and give more points for away wins. otherwise there is no accountability and no one would really care about these meaningless rankings when they will get back to their rank at home despite being whitewashed on tough away tours. This current system is really flawed. Despite India was thrashed on their Eng,NZ,Aus tour they were like 2nd team in the rankings. Should be improved otherwise there is no point of this ranking system.

I firmly believe SA are the no.1 team. They were not only good at home but they have been the best travellers. they beat SL,Aus,WI at their home..draw twice against Pakistan in UAE,beat Pakistan in Pakistan before that, drawn against India before their last tour to India..They have been by far best to me. Aus and India could be joint 2nd. they have been pretty much same away from home.

 

[Tridibans_16]

All these away tours will bring lot of Indian fans back to earth... Lot of Pakistanis are back now

Hahaha. None of us are expecting India to beat SA/AUS in their dens. But atleast, this team can win a test or two. Last time we came close to beating Aus in Adelaide and gave the NZ series away on a platter.

 

[Tridibans_16]

great point raised by you sir. I completely agree with you.

ICC should make amendments in ranking system and give more points for away wins. otherwise there is no accountability and no one would really care about these meaningless rankings when they will get back to their rank at home despite being whitewashed on tough away tours. This current system is really flawed. Despite India was thrashed on their Eng,NZ,Aus tour they were like 2nd team in the rankings. Should be improved otherwise there is no point of this ranking system.

I firmly believe SA are the no.1 team. They were not only good at home but they have been the best travellers. they beat SL,Aus,WI at their home..draw twice against Pakistan in UAE,beat Pakistan in Pakistan before that, drawn against India before their last tour to India..They have been by far best to me. Aus and India could be joint 2nd. they have been pretty much same away from home.

That is not true. After our thrashing, we came down to as low as 97 points and no.6 in the rankings. It is only since 2014-15, that we managed to beat SL in SL, WI in WI, drawing 2 tests and losing 2 in 4 match series in Aus and being ruthless at home, that we are back to no.1.

SA can't be no.1 as they lost 0-3 to current no.1 India. Also, they are quite poor at home (surprisingly). Lost to AUS / England at home.

 

[Zak_Fan]

All these away tours will bring lot of Indian fans back to earth... Lot of Pakistanis are back now

Not really. We were #1 even before the home season began. Come back when Pakistan does the same.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ranking system should be overhaul to reflect the difficult nature of test cricket. Simple top team winning from lower rank model is not good reflection(which is taken from other sports)...There are many factors, like us winning on bounce and pace, fans value those aspects lot more than just home series win, that should be reflected in the ranking...Drawing away series, specially in alien conditions should be value lot more than home wins...Again the idea is to incentivize tough series, it cannot be linear scale...We need to come up with Duck-Worth-Lewis kind of algorithm for ranking... Cricket is not simple sports, home and away is not just about home-crowd, there is lot more to it.

Right now there is no stand out team, after SA(when they were undefeated away from home for 8 years), it has not been for many years...

I didn't get your alternate rankings, so I am guessing that yours too isn't much different to the BS ICC rankings. See, thing is, if you are hell bent on taking the credit away from a side, you can do it with any system.

Let me take you quoting South Africa as an example. In those 8 years, how many series did South Africa win in conditions that would test them? The system you suggest will always have South Africa and Australia at the top as they hardly ever tour Asian countries compared the number of matches teams like India play in Eng/Aus or SA. So unless you make sure all countries touring each other with similar frequency, the system you suggest will be the biggest fail.

 

[Drreddymd]

In what way is u r team better than india.we won in england in 2007; nz in 2009; drawn series in aus,sa,won in srl,west indies.u have not won series in england since 1996;white washed in sa,aus all the time.u should be last one talking about away performances as u have done zilch in sa,aus,eng

 

[Drreddymd]

I didn't get your alternate rankings, so I am guessing that yours too isn't much different to the BS ICC rankings. See, thing is, if you are hell bent on taking the credit away from a side, you can do it with any system.

Let me take you quoting South Africa as an example. In those 8 years, how many series did South Africa win in conditions that would test them? The system you suggest will always have South Africa and Australia at the top as they hardly ever tour Asian countries compared the number of matches teams like India play in Eng/Aus or SA. So unless you make sure all countries touring each other with similar frequency, the system you suggest will be the biggest fail.

Its pretty strange to hear words like away performance from pak fans as their aeay record is abysmal compared to india

 

[yasir]

I didn't get your alternate rankings, so I am guessing that yours too isn't much different to the BS ICC rankings. See, thing is, if you are hell bent on taking the credit away from a side, you can do it with any system.

Let me take you quoting South Africa as an example. In those 8 years, how many series did South Africa win in conditions that would test them? The system you suggest will always have South Africa and Australia at the top as they hardly ever tour Asian countries compared the number of matches teams like India play in Eng/Aus or SA. So unless you make sure all countries touring each other with similar frequency, the system you suggest will be the biggest fail.

I don't disagree, ranking is really hard thing in cricket so many factors...That's why in test Cricket you remember more how many away series and specially in tough conditions you have won then just the ranking itself...At the same token you don't forget those phants either, 12-0 losses in Aus is hard for us, winning test series in Australia is like winning 3 world cups, there is no bigger achievement in Pakistani sports... But sadly, I don't think PCB takes Auses tours as series as we do

Now you are opening more can of worms. Cricket performance is function of how often you play in certain conditions... Pakistan Plays in AUS once in 5/6 years(12 test only in 21 years), where as India once in every 2/3 years, more you play better you get, specially batsmen... If Pakistan and SA play 12/13 test like Big 3, they would feature lot better and have more well rounded teams, not to mention would have produced ATG bowlers and batsmen...For example, Pakistan started winning series in England, once our players were exposed to county cricket, in 80s/90s, we won 3 series, two of them were full series...

 

[MRSN]

In what way is u r team better than india.we won in england in 2007; nz in 2009; drawn series in aus,sa,won in srl,west indies.u have not won series in england since 1996;white washed in sa,aus all the time.u should be last one talking about away performances as u have done zilch in sa,aus,eng

I never said Pakistan is better than India. I am just saying India hasn't been good travelers compare to SA and Aus. I'm just saying if we look at who has been best team away from home than it might be the SA. I would still have India and Aus jointly at 2.

 

[Zak_Fan]

I don't disagree, ranking is really hard thing in cricket so many factors...That's why in test Cricket you remember more how many away series and specially in tough conditions you have won then just the ranking itself...At the same token you don't forget those phants either, 12-0 losses in Aus is hard for us, winning test series in Australia is like winning 3 world cups, there is no bigger achievement in Pakistani sports... But sadly, I don't think PCB takes Auses tours as series as we do

Now you are opening more can of worms. Cricket performance is function of how often you play in certain conditions... Pakistan Plays in AUS once in 5/6 years(12 test only in 21 years), where as India once in every 2/3 years, more you play better you get, specially batsmen... If Pakistan and SA play 12/13 test like Big 3, they would feature lot better and have more well rounded teams, not to mention would have produced ATG bowlers and batsmen...For example, Pakistan started winning series in England, once our players were exposed to county cricket, in 80s/90s, we won 3 series, two of them were full series...

I am because the system you suggest won't be possible without it. South Africa rarely plays a series in Asia, and India tours western nations far more frequently. How do you plan to rank two sides when their "home-away" playing patterns (corresponding to conditions) are so different? Then you have another extreme Pakistani example. Your Cricket was literally limited to Asia for more than 5 years. So, how do you accommodate a side like that?

Also, when you suggest that system, you complicate things further. If a team shouldn't have as many points for wins at home, should their losses or draws at home too be exaggerated by a similar factor? Also, then you have countries that are more likely to have matches washed out due to rain. So, is it fair to penalize them so heavily just because they can't help weather?

It wasn't my comment, but it is the system you suggest that opens up more cans of worms, and implementation of any such system will require a complete overhaul of Cricket as we know it today.

 

[soso_killer]

Did India win any test in AUS,NZ,SA?? - Drawing is achievement but not that make you so far ahead. We actually drew a full series in England, which nobody was able to do in last 6/7 season(including AUS/SA), so what??

Only away series you won was against WI(Which is at continual decline) and SL(which is still in Asia, we won there too)... I did not see any flying achievements, its again mathematical no 1... When you are going to win a series in ENG,SA,AUS,NZ then we will talk...All this ICC ranking is just a BS

SA were not able to draw the series in England because they won it 2-0.

I do agree with the basis of your argument. Perhaps no one deserves the number one ranking. But someone has to be there.
If SA and Australia hosted all the Asian sides they'd have a good shot at accumulating points and winning 13 games in a row. No one can deny that.

 

[Drreddymd]

I never said Pakistan is better than India. I am just saying India hasn't been good travelers compare to SA and Aus. I'm just saying if we look at who has been best team away from home than it might be the SA. I would still have India and Aus jointly at 2.

Ok.south africa should be the undoubted better team over all based on their away performances.but they didnt win against aus,eng at their home and are not dominant like india in white washing asian teams.even in 2007 ind won joburg test,took lead in the last test of series only to collapse and lose the series.in 2011 also india was the better team ,in 2014 ind drawn a winnable test because of poor bowling in the second innings

 

[yasir]

I am because the system you suggest won't be possible without it. South Africa rarely plays a series in Asia, and India tours western nations far more frequently. How do you plan to rank two sides when their "home-away" playing patterns (corresponding to conditions) are so different? Then you have another extreme Pakistani example. Your Cricket was literally limited to Asia for more than 5 years. So, how do you accommodate a side like that?

Also, when you suggest that system, you complicate things further. If a team shouldn't have as many points for wins at home, should their losses or draws at home too be exaggerated by a similar factor? Also, then you have countries that are more likely to have matches washed out due to rain. So, is it fair to penalize them so heavily just because they can't help weather?

It wasn't my comment, but it is the system you suggest that opens up more cans of worms, and implementation of any such system will require a complete overhaul of Cricket as we know it today.

Well ranking system is just a side chit chat, it does not has any material significance any way...There is no test championship going on where that ranking matters... That's why I said, fans care more about series win than ranking.

 

[Drreddymd]

SA were not able to draw the series in England because they won it 2-0.

I do agree with the basis of your argument. Perhaps no one deserves the number one ranking. But someone has to be there.
If SA and Australia hosted all the Asian sides they'd have a good shot at accumulating points and winning 13 games in a row. No one can deny that.

May be against other asain sides but not india as india came close to winning series twice in 2007 and 2011 and drawn a winnable test last time.u r not that dominant against india as u make out .

 

[yasir]

SA were not able to draw the series in England because they won it 2-0.

I do agree with the basis of your argument. Perhaps no one deserves the number one ranking. But someone has to be there.
If SA and Australia hosted all the Asian sides they'd have a good shot at accumulating points and winning 13 games in a row. No one can deny that.

I missed that one SA did won 2-0 in 2012.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Ranking system should be overhaul to reflect the difficult nature of test cricket. Simple top team winning from lower rank model is not good reflection(which is taken from other sports)...There are many factors, like us winning on bounce and pace, fans value those aspects lot more than just home series win, that should be reflected in the ranking...Drawing away series, specially in alien conditions should be value lot more than home wins...Again the idea is to incentivize tough series, it cannot be linear scale...We need to come up with Duck-Worth-Lewis kind of algorithm for ranking... Cricket is not simple sports, home and away is not just about home-crowd, there is lot more to it.

Right now there is no stand out team, after SA(when they were undefeated away from home for 8 years), it has not been for many years...

No.1 team doesn't necessarily mean they have to be ATG side who are undefeated everywhere.

India are at no.1 atm because they are better team than others atm, no one is saying this team is as good as WI of 80s or Aus of 2000s, so relax. SA came close to becoming ATG like them but they just didn't dominate long enough but would you dispute their no.1 status? I wouldn't, nor would I downplay India's previous stint at no.1 or when England held it for a year or 2.

Rankings are flawed, we've heard it a zillion times but it is same for every side. So give that argument a rest. If India have a long home season, they also go on road for a long period too, so its a double edged sword for us.

 

[yasir]

Ok.south africa should be the undoubted better team over all based on their away performances.but they didnt win against aus,eng at their home and are not dominant like india in white washing asian teams.even in 2007 ind won joburg test,took lead in the last test of series only to collapse and lose the series.in 2011 also india was the better team ,in 2014 ind drawn a winnable test because of poor bowling in the second innings

Well India and Pakistan do not play each other, who are master of Asian conditions in many ways, all this home bulling never get really tested...If AUS never plays against SA and Vice Versa, how many home series they will lose?

If India and Pakistan keep on playing test series against each other then we can really know how good they are at home...Beating weaker opposition is not really a reflection of ranking...Keep in mind loosing big series from your arch rivals effects teams, finish careers and tuples boards, its not a normal thing...

 

[Drreddymd]

Well India and Pakistan do not play each other, who are master of Asian conditions in many ways, all this home bulling never get really tested...If AUS never plays against SA and Vice Versa, how many home series they will lose?

If India and Pakistan keep on playing test series against each other then we can really know how good they are at home...Beating weaker opposition is not really a reflection of ranking...Keep in mind loosing big series from your arch rivals effects teams, finish careers and tuples boards, its not a normal thing...

Pakistan won one test series against india im india that too 1:0 in a 5 match series long back in 1987.india won against pak in pak in 2007 2:1.so please dont brag about u r performance in india as it is nothing to brag about even with u r so called superior teams of yester years

 

[yasir]

No.1 team doesn't necessarily mean they have to be ATG side who are undefeated everywhere.

India are at no.1 atm because they are better team than others atm, no one is saying this team is as good as WI of 80s or Aus of 2000s, so relax. SA came close to becoming ATG like them but they just didn't dominate long enough but would you dispute their no.1 status? I wouldn't, nor would I downplay India's previous stint at no.1 or when England held it for a year or 2.

Rankings are flawed, we've heard it a zillion times but it is same for every side. So give that argument a rest. If India have a long home season, they also go on road for a long period too, so its a double edged sword for us.

That is not a true statement in may ways, that's why ranking does not make much sense in test Cricket. Better than others at home? - Better than others away or overall?? - They have not won any tough away series, they don't play any tough series at home. You can create spreadsheet and hand out numbers but that does not mean anything...Again this delusion will be over once you guys will be on road... Current ICC ranking is blinded by those facts, but we all know where is the beef