Pakistan STILL has what it takes to win the ICC World Cup 2023!

[Mamoon]

As we saw last year and the year before, Pakistan is a generous T20I team. However, let’s not conflate formats - Pakistan is a deeply mediocre ODI team against full-strength opposition.

I spilled my coffee when someone claimed that Pakistan is a top 3 ODI team. That couldn’t be further from the truth. At best, Pakistan is competing for the 5th spot.

Compared to 2018-19 where Sarfraz led Pakistan to one of its most humiliating runs in ODI cricket, the current Pakistan ODI team is in better shape in spite of the Asia Cup humiliation because of an improved batting lineup.

However, it is still not up to the mark when you compare it to the top ODI teams at the moment and no matter how much noise we make, Babar is not the best ODI batsman in the world. He barely makes the top 5 and that if you are being super generous.

The spin stocks are at an all time low and it is hilarious when people are portraying Imad (proven failure in ODIs as a bowler) and Abrar (nothing special) as saviors.

Furthermore, it is a myth that Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf are the best fast bowling trio. Again, they barely make the top 3 and that too if we are being super generous.

There are several teams that are better than Pakistan in all facets and the longer the format, the more Pakistan is exposed.

It is harder to get away with average players and poor captaincy in ODIs than it is in T20Is. There is a reason why Pakistan has failed to make the finals in an ODI World Cup for so, so long and nothing will change this time.

 

[TheSultan]

If there’s anyone that’s delusional, I’m afraid, it’s you. The majority of Pakistan fans are very pessimistic and negative right now, after the loss to India. So, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

The only accumulators we have at the top are Imam, Babar and Rizwan. And every team needs at least couple of them in ODIs. With Pakistan’s bowling strength, Pakistan can afford to have 3.

All 3 are proven batsmen who have their own weaknesses but generally tend to do well on flat pitches like the ones in India. Imam needs to find some form, and he will — he is a good batsmen who has worked on his power game and other problems in the past; he will work on his technique in the future too. His average speaks for itself.

Where is the bowling strength? Naseem is out, Shaheen is not at his best, Rauf is recovering from injury, all the alternatives are nothing special and our spinners are pathetic.

And even if at their best and fittest. Is our attack much better than Australia’s? Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood, Zampa etc? Do they stuff their batting lineup with accumulators and fake allrounders?

What about NZ - Southee, Boult, Ravindra

SA - Rabada, Nortje, Jansen.

Even india have a good bowling attack but they have a good mix of batting talent

No one ignores their batting and has a one dimensional strategy like we do

 

[SamNJ]

Reaching top 4 should be the first target.
For that Pakistan will have to be clinical against SL/Afg/BD and make sure they don't slip, if they do then whole WC they will be in catching up mode. Last edition they had a stinker against WI in first match and that pushed them back in SF race.

After that they need to Make sure to get the required wins against NZ and SA. These will be relatively easier games. If they lose here they will have to make up with a win against Ind/Eng/Aus which will be an uphill task.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Anybody can reach final. But Pakistan misses a few ingredients. Unpredictable tag was there because players were unpredictable. Most of the current pak players are predictable. Chacha can produce an occasional Razzaq style innings. Most of the batsmen are steady eddies. Also there is over-reliancec on Shaheen having an opening burst. He may have. But when he doesn't Pakistan struggles. Having said that All teams have weaknesses. You don't have to do well yourself to reach final or even semi final. You just have to suck less than few other top sides like SA losing to Netherlands. Who would have a thought.

 

[owenhcricket]

I

If we are looking at experience then I believe we have no one but Hassan. But if we are looking for a new face then Arshad can be added to the mix. He has had a good time blowing recently. No dahani, he is no where.

Do you mean Arshad Iqbal?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If you look at 2 year records before World Cups, it is the teams with the most batting firepower and those who score aggressively that have the most chances at semis and at winning the Cup.

1983

India were the fastest scoring ODI side for 2 years leading up to the Cup.


1987

India were first. PAK and OZ were joint 2nd

1992

PAK were fastest scoring side

1996

SL were 4th after India, OZ and Windies in that order

1999.

PAK were 1st, OZ were 3rd

2003 and 2007

OZ were 1st

2011

SA were first. India were 2nd

2015

OZ were first

2019

England were first


2023

PAK are 5th after ENG, SA, IND, OZ in that order.

A team as slow scoring as Pakistan has never won the World Cup.

 

[Stewie]

I agree. We should always remain positive.

Back our boys and stop crying like little babies. See a lot of that going on around here these days

 

[shamaan]

Imaam is a good player yes he has limitations in which he cant hit sixes consistently but I rather him than Haris who won't survive in odis.

Abdullah Shafique has a better power game that both Imaam and Babar.

Rizwan is good enough to bat at 5 and he's miles ahead of any keeper in Pakistan currently.

 

[TheSultan]

Imaam is a good player yes he has limitations in which he cant hit sixes consistently but I rather him than Haris who won't survive in odis.

Abdullah Shafique has a better power game that both Imaam and Babar.

Rizwan is good enough to bat at 5 and he's miles ahead of any keeper in Pakistan currently.

I’m serious about this. Give Haris 20 matches as a keeper batsman he’ll make a much bigger impact than Steady eddie rizwan

 

[GLORY OF '92]

I agree. We should always remain positive.

Back our boys and stop crying like little babies. See a lot of that going on around here these days

It's not crying it's reality. Infact it's childish to think this team will make the semis. Our batting is 5th or 6th best in the tournament with no power hitters whatsoever, captaincy is a joke, bowling is prone to collapse when attacked. Fielding we always drop crucial catches in knock out games. I could go on.

 

[Savak]

In the Asia Cup, the team got brutally exposed under pressure.

Shadab and Nawaz were bowling shell shocked as if they had never bowled to elite batsmen in the middle before and had forgotten to put 6 balls in the same spot.

Shaheen was shell shocked at the manner in which Rohit and Gill went after him. Shaheen, Naseem had no answers to Kohli and KL Rahul in the middle and were shell shocked at the death.

In the Sri Lanka game, the Pakistani team while batting in the early overs and with the ball, the team clearly performed below potential because of the massive pressure coming from the defeat from India and the fact all of a sudden they were playing in a do or die game.

The team clearly showed in pressure games, they don't have it.

The less said about the Mental Midget Fakhar the better, his body language showed that he didn't want to be out there but somehow the team management had more faith in him then he himself.

 

[Stewie]

It's not crying it's reality. Infact it's childish to think this team will make the semis. Our batting is 5th or 6th best in the tournament with no power hitters whatsoever, captaincy is a joke, bowling is prone to collapse when attacked. Fielding we always drop crucial catches in knock out games. I could go on.

Sure, but what sort of fan would you be if you just whine and complain? A fair weather fan is no fan. Its the national team, support them.

We have won tournaments in the past, we have two world cup trophies, thats two more than SA has with outstanding history of fielding, power hitting and consistency. None of this stuff matters when it comes to the potential of winning and going all the way and Pakistan has that potential in buckets. I keep reminding people here that we still have the top batters and bowlers in the world and we have a tail that wags and is good at power hitting. Lets not forget that.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Sure, but what sort of fan would you be if you just whine and complain? A fair weather fan is no fan. Its the national team, support them.

We have won tournaments in the past, we have two world cup trophies, thats two more than SA has with outstanding history of fielding, power hitting and consistency. None of this stuff matters when it comes to the potential of winning and going all the way and Pakistan has that potential in buckets. I keep reminding people here that we still have the top batters and bowlers in the world and we have a tail that wags and is good at power hitting. Lets not forget that.

No doubt. I just get frustrated we don't fix issues in the 4 years between WCs. In my thinking with the teams we've had we should have 3 WCs (1992, 1996 and 1999) and 4 T20 WCs (2009, 2010, 2021, 2022). Just silly mistakes and or bad luck have cost us these trophies. It hurts.

 

[Devadwal]

Don't underestimate Pakistan cricket team becouse they are very dangerous. I'm 100% sure they will make to semifinals.
My semifinals teams are England ,India , Pakistan and Australia/ South Africa

 

[Stewie]

No doubt. I just get frustrated we don't fix issues in the 4 years between WCs. In my thinking with the teams we've had we should have 3 WCs (1992, 1996 and 1999) and 4 T20 WCs (2009, 2010, 2021, 2022). Just silly mistakes and or bad luck have cost us these trophies. It hurts.

Yeah, i think as fans we are all in the same boat. I have to admit though that the problems with our cricket are a microcosm of our larger problems. Every time the government changes, of course the PCB management changes and the new management wants to stamp their authority on things so they ring wholesale changes, its a mess. Then, under such situations, how can you expect us to have decent long term strategies in place so we account for such issues? But perhaps thats a topic for another discussion.

More recently, our focus has totally shifted to T20 cricket and ODI and Tests have been in the periphery for a while now. I think the fact we made it to the final of the T20 world cup speaks highly to what we are capable of as a cricketing nation if we put our mind to it. We simply are not prioritizing ODIs and tests, the number of games we play in those formats is evidence to it.

The future, fortunately or unfortunately, is T20 cricket and there we are strong. So let us support our guys and hope we put the doubters in their place with decent performance.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Only in dreams!!! We will be around 7-8 in this World Cup.Team is full of parchis and accumulators. Its will be one the world World Cup for Pakistan team.

I was expecting you to predict them to finish 11th out of 10 participants

 

[mominsaigol]

I’m serious about this. Give Haris 20 matches as a keeper batsman he’ll make a much bigger impact than Steady eddie rizwan

Naw he won't. Haris is a hack. He shouldn't be utilised anywhere besides being a finisher.

He defo should be our no 7 though, Rizwan is still a better player then haris. Saim ayub and haris in the afg series and played at opening and it was clear who was superior.

What pakistan needs is saim at the top and tayyab at the middle and haris at no 7. Both have been in Red hot form and both are strikers. Imam, Fakhar, Saud, Rizwan, Babar. Out of these 5, 3 of these lads need to leave.

I back saud to stay due to spin and all posters saying spin is overrated thankfully got a reality check this tournament considering how kuldeep and wallenge performed. Babar obviously stays.

My problem is, Imam, Rizwan, And Abdullah. Abdullah I back but he ain't their yet. Atm he's still an accumulator and is yet to replicate his psl power game in international, blame Babar for not giving this man any games. Imam and rizwan are problems as well. Oof it's an accumulator onslaught that we have.

 

[mominsaigol]

Let's look at how we'll logically do against teams this world cup.

1) Nedtherlands: We'll win 9 out of 10x
2) Sri lanka: No naseem but shaheen and Rauf being back means we have the advantage. 6 out of 10 times we'll win but it's even.
3) India: 9 out 10 times we are losing.
4) Sena: South Africa Idk due to their tournament chocking and bad luck, but ena 8/9 out of 10 times we are losing.
5) Afghanistan: we'll win 8 out of 10 times
6) Bangladesh: We'll win 8 out of 10 times, honestly pakistan will probs beat bangaladesh more easily then Afghanistan.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Let's look at how we'll logically do against teams this world cup.

1) Nedtherlands: We'll win 9 out of 10x
2) Sri lanka: No naseem but shaheen and Rauf being back means we have the advantage. 6 out of 10 times we'll win but it's even.
3) India: 9 out 10 times we are losing.
4) Sena: South Africa Idk due to their tournament chocking and bad luck, but ena 8/9 out of 10 times we are losing.
5) Afghanistan: we'll win 8 out of 10 times
6) Bangladesh: We'll win 8 out of 10 times, honestly pakistan will probs beat bangaladesh more easily then Afghanistan.

on indian pitches winning against Afghanistan wont be that much easy task.

 

[mominsaigol]

on indian pitches winning against Afghanistan wont be that much easy task.

Depends who we play. Besides that one 302 game where we struggled we easily dispatched Afghanistan.

Imam, Saud, Abdullah don't have much problem with spin, Abdullah had it early on in the innings but he settled easily, its cause he was under pressure.

Now that fakhar is likely gone, it probs won't be an issue. Again it depends on who we play.

Problem was fakhar, Babar, Agha, Rizwan, chacha, shadab, all suck at playing spin.

But if we add Abdullah, Saud and Imam, then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[ahmadharis1]

This team has too many weaknesses to compete for a top 4 spot, much less win the entire thing

I've said it before and I'll say it again; ODIs are a whole different format from T20Is. In 20 overs, one spell of bowling or one magic quickfire innings can win a game for you. You can't do that in ODIs.

More often than not, talent will win out over the course of 100 overs, and Pakistan don't have that level of talent

 

[Anupam]

I think Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan will all be as challenging to beat as the usual strong teams like Australia, England, India or South Africa. Because the conditions will help sub continent teams and make the contest even between SC teams and SENA teams. It will be a close WC and there will be a close tussle to make it to SFs. From there, it's anyone's WC

My picks are Australia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, India to make the SF stage.

 

[Marooned]

Nah. Have to call it as it is. We are in a really really bad place right now. Immensely demoralizing defeat vs rivals, key injuries, infighting, uncertainty about selection...what else could be wrong?

It's unfortunate that the Asia Cup hit our team so badly just before the worldcup. The team spirit is damaged, and the player relationships soured.

All things unfortunately point towards a disastrous Worldcup.

 

[TheSultan]

Naw he won't. Haris is a hack. He shouldn't be utilised anywhere besides being a finisher.

He defo should be our no 7 though, Rizwan is still a better player then haris. Saim ayub and haris in the afg series and played at opening and it was clear who was superior.

What pakistan needs is saim at the top and tayyab at the middle and haris at no 7. Both have been in Red hot form and both are strikers. Imam, Fakhar, Saud, Rizwan, Babar. Out of these 5, 3 of these lads need to leave.

I back saud to stay due to spin and all posters saying spin is overrated thankfully got a reality check this tournament considering how kuldeep and wallenge performed. Babar obviously stays.

My problem is, Imam, Rizwan, And Abdullah. Abdullah I back but he ain't their yet. Atm he's still an accumulator and is yet to replicate his psl power game in international, blame Babar for not giving this man any games. Imam and rizwan are problems as well. Oof it's an accumulator onslaught that we have.

I said he’ll make a bigger impact, I never said he should bat in the top order. If we had to play either Rizwan or Haris, I would back Haris to play more effectively at 7 than Rizwan at 4.

This would free up the no4 position to a proper batsman and we can stop this makeshift nonsense.

 

[daytrader]

9 games plus possibly knockouts. It's going to be a long tournament and I think we'll get to see most of the squad in action at one point or another. I can see Pakistan making the semis. We've got the bench strength.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

I said he’ll make a bigger impact, I never said he should bat in the top order. If we had to play either Rizwan or Haris, I would back Haris to play more effectively at 7 than Rizwan at 4.

This would free up the no4 position to a proper batsman and we can stop this makeshift nonsense.

Only we insist on not having specialists. Costs us so often yet every tournament the same thing happens.

 

[shamaan]

I’m serious about this. Give Haris 20 matches as a keeper batsman he’ll make a much bigger impact than Steady eddie rizwan

Haris Is a hack he can only open but he already has competition in which is Saim who is way better.

 

[shamaan]

I said he’ll make a bigger impact, I never said he should bat in the top order. If we had to play either Rizwan or Haris, I would back Haris to play more effectively at 7 than Rizwan at 4.

This would free up the no4 position to a proper batsman and we can stop this makeshift nonsense.

If Haris bats at 7 who's going to be the 5th bowler.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I said he’ll make a bigger impact, I never said he should bat in the top order. If we had to play either Rizwan or Haris, I would back Haris to play more effectively at 7 than Rizwan at 4.

This would free up the no4 position to a proper batsman and we can stop this makeshift nonsense.

To me there doesn't seem to be a place for Haris in ODI cricket. He appears to be another Haider Ali in cricket, someone with beauty but without the brains for the game.

If he bats at 7 so u r replacing him with an all rounder so in this scenario who's gonna ball than?

 

[mominsaigol]

I said he’ll make a bigger impact, I never said he should bat in the top order. If we had to play either Rizwan or Haris, I would back Haris to play more effectively at 7 than Rizwan at 4.

This would free up the no4 position to a proper batsman and we can stop this makeshift nonsense.

Oh, my bad, misunderstood. Yh I agree. Haris is a utility player.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Getting to semis will take a bit of luck but the problem is we will run out of gas.

Slow scoring teams rarely win the WC.

One bad day at the office for our bowlers and our batsmen will be found out.

Semis? If we get lucky.

Winning ? Yeah miracles do happen, but no.

 

[ExpressPacer]

If you give Babar Rohit, Tendulkar, Kohli, Gilchrist, Ponting, Kallis, Wasim, Buttler, Warne, Mcgrath, Donald, Muralitharan he will still fail to win. This guy has don't have it. He can only score and 2nd grade teams.

This is your emotions talking. Babar’s captaincy record in ODIs has been great and he has led us brilliantly in the previous 2 T20 WCs. You’re overreacting.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Pakistan is so unpredictable and dangerous that they haven’t played an ODI World Cup final in 24 years.

I didn’t talk about the team being unpredictable. In fact, they are predictably good now that they have been consistently playing the same set of players which has allowed every player to adopt his particular role.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Okay buddy I am delusional. You my friend are the smartest man alive, no one even comes close to your intelligence I am impressed.

Yes buddy statistics do not lie, but they don't tell the whole story either, but no no, Imam is clearly working on his weaknesses, That's why he slows down throughout the innings rather then speeds up.

Okay bro you're right, Babar is a legendary player and he will dominate spin bowling this cup with his 50+ Average. I'm sure kuldeep, Adil rasheed, Wallenge, And Rashid khan will be a walk in the park, Babar will easily dispatch them with his 50 Average.

Yes buddy, KL Rahul is untested, that's why he smashed a century against us and dominated our bowlers, and ishan kishan is also untested, that's why he and pandya single handedly recovered India from a collapsed position but no no he has yet to be tested in a tournament stage.

What amazing insight you have, Zindabad brother.

All talk but you won’t admit that stats don’t lie — Imam has increased his SR over the years which is a clear sign of working on your game.

Again, Babar scored 2 50s in 3 games vs Afghanistan despite playing all of their world class spinners.

And yes, KL is untested. One century does not mean that he’s coming back from an injury and will be rusty.

It is your surface insight without being able to think critically that is laughable.

 

[mominsaigol]

All talk but you won’t admit that stats don’t lie — Imam has increased his SR over the years which is a clear sign of working on your game.

Again, Babar scored 2 50s in 3 games vs Afghanistan despite playing all of their world class spinners.

And yes, KL is untested. One century does not mean that he’s coming back from an injury and will be rusty.

It is your surface insight without being able to think critically that is laughable.

Buddy, I turned you into my bunny, sit down boi .

 

[ExpressPacer]

As we saw last year and the year before, Pakistan is a generous T20I team. However, let’s not conflate formats - Pakistan is a deeply mediocre ODI team against full-strength opposition.

I spilled my coffee when someone claimed that Pakistan is a top 3 ODI team. That couldn’t be further from the truth. At best, Pakistan is competing for the 5th spot.

Compared to 2018-19 where Sarfraz led Pakistan to one of its most humiliating runs in ODI cricket, the current Pakistan ODI team is in better shape in spite of the Asia Cup humiliation because of an improved batting lineup.

However, it is still not up to the mark when you compare it to the top ODI teams at the moment and no matter how much noise we make, Babar is not the best ODI batsman in the world. He barely makes the top 5 and that if you are being super generous.

The spin stocks are at an all time low and it is hilarious when people are portraying Imad (proven failure in ODIs as a bowler) and Abrar (nothing special) as saviors.

Furthermore, it is a myth that Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf are the best fast bowling trio. Again, they barely make the top 3 and that too if we are being super generous.

There are several teams that are better than Pakistan in all facets and the longer the format, the more Pakistan is exposed.

It is harder to get away with average players and poor captaincy in ODIs than it is in T20Is. There is a reason why Pakistan has failed to make the finals in an ODI World Cup for so, so long and nothing will change this time.

Babar is not the best batsman in the world, I agree. However, alongside the consistency that is offered by Imam and Rizwan, the batting is considerably stronger than it has been for years.

Again, I didn’t claim that Pakistan have the stronger bowling attack in the world. But it is much stronger than what we have had in recent memory. It may not be the best in the world but it is close.

These two factors coupled with each other make Pakistan a very strong side with a relatively straightforward road to the semis.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Buddy, I turned you into my bunny, sit down boi .

Learn how to properly communicate on a cricket forum instead of making personal attacks.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I agree. We should always remain positive.

Back our boys and stop crying like little babies. See a lot of that going on around here these days

Fickle fans with fickle hearts. That’s the crux of it mate. A couple of losses and all hell breaks loose.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Nah. Have to call it as it is. We are in a really really bad place right now. Immensely demoralizing defeat vs rivals, key injuries, infighting, uncertainty about selection...what else could be wrong?

It's unfortunate that the Asia Cup hit our team so badly just before the worldcup. The team spirit is damaged, and the player relationships soured.

All things unfortunately point towards a disastrous Worldcup.

One immensely demoralising defeat and it is the end of the world? Mate, if anything, Pakistan has a history of only coming back stronger after demoralising defeats. Moreover, a bad defeat doesn’t really make a huge difference IF the team is actually good.

After a long time, Pakistan can finally say that it has a good and balanced team.

Injuries? The only player to have gotten seriously injured is Naseem. Haris has a mere side strain which he is set to recover fully by time the WC starts.

Infighting? Yeah… I definitely believe what Pakistani and Indian TV channels are reporting to their TRPs.

Chin up, bro. Things are not as bad as many of us have made ourselves to believe.

 

[mominsaigol]

Learn how to properly communicate on a cricket forum instead of making personal attacks.

Broskie I've been nothing but respectful to you. However when you outright ignore every single argument just to proceed with your delusional stand point and then proceed to state that I'm critically inept which is the biggest irony on this thread to date then expect such replies. Your fault not mine. Just admit that your a pakistan fanboy and just want to achieve the gold medal for having the biggest ego. .

 

[ExpressPacer]

Broskie I've been nothing but respectful to you. However when you outright ignore every single argument just to proceed with your delusional stand point and then proceed to state that I'm critically inept which is the biggest irony on this thread to date then expect such replies. Your fault not mine. Just admit that your a pakistan fanboy and just want to achieve the gold medal for having the biggest ego. .

My man, it isn’t about being a fanboy. I’m just surprised that you seem to look last straight facts and exaggerate Pakistan’s failures.

For instance, you seem to think Babar is a bunny against spin. When I present evidence otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

You seem to think Imam has not improved his game whatsoever, and when I present stats that suggest otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

I’d spend my whole day on this post if I carry on this list.

Seems like it is still early days for you here. Learn to respect others even if you disagree.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Even if Imam has improved and Babar is much better against spin, they are still far short by international standards.

@mominsaigol point is still valid.

Their improvement and ceiling is so low at the moment that they are still terrible compared to other teams players.

We can fluke our way to a semi final by good bowling only.

Asking Babar and Imam to chase 300 on a flat pancake is would leave them looking constipated each and every time (yeah I know that century vs Nepal is amazing).

 

[mominsaigol]

My man, it isn’t about being a fanboy. I’m just surprised that you seem to look last straight facts and exaggerate Pakistan’s failures.

For instance, you seem to think Babar is a bunny against spin. When I present evidence otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

You seem to think Imam has not improved his game whatsoever, and when I present stats that suggest otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

I’d spend my whole day on this post if I carry on this list.

Seems like it is still early days for you here. Learn to respect others even if you disagree.

Because babar is going to get cremated against kuldeep or zampa in this tournament. What part of that do you not understand? The sane way he got cremated against jaysuria in test.

Your so called stats argument is nonsense, by this logic imam ul haq is 100x the player inzi ever was due to stats. Stats don't tell a story, it's an extremely extremely common fact that babar and imam are the pinnacle of stats padding their way to the top.

Anyone who has watched imam knows that his 2nd 50 comes slower then his first 50. And the rate at which he now scores a century has diminished. He has yet to replicate his once in a blue moon 150 that he once managed to do.

Your stats stats argument is nonsense.

Don't quote me about respect when you're the guy who resorted to personal attacks in the first place. Like bhai Mirror mein apnei ap ko dekho. You're the type of guy to ignore every argument and then outright tell others their critically inept. . Damag tera kisik gayea hai?

 

[Mamoon]

I didn’t talk about the team being unpredictable. In fact, they are predictably good now that they have been consistently playing the same set of players which has allowed every player to adopt his particular role.

Pakistan is only predictably good when they are playing against underpowered opposition.

They are predictably poor when they are playing against full-strength teams as we saw it in January vs New Zealand and in the Asia Cup. We will also see it in the upcoming World Cup.

Too bad Pakistan won’t have the luxury of playing Australia, England, New Zealand etc. with 4-5 main players resting for XYZ reasons. That is when Pakistan thrives.

 

[Mamoon]

@ExpressPacer

Have Pakistan improved over the last couple of years? Yes for sure, but it is all relative because Pakistan is not playing its old self. It is competing with the best teams in the world.

Can Pakistan beat full-strength India, England, Australia and New Zealand in an ODI series?

No it cannot in any conditions. That is the true reality of this team and its relative strength.

Pakistan can fluke a win or two here and there in ODIs against these top sides, but you need to produce consistency over a long period to win a World Cup especially in the ODI format.

Pakistan is simply incapable of that. If Pakistan can make the semis somehow and beat a top team or two, Pakistani fans should be happy because that is the best this team devoid of talent, skill, character and poise can achieve.

As I always say, Pakistan’s problem is not the weaknesses of the team but the misplaced expectations of the fans.

if you expect a crow to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the crow’s.

There are hundreds of sports teams around the world that will never reach the top level and win things and their fans know it but it doesn’t stop them from loving and supporting their team.

Pakistani fans should love and support their team but they should also make peace with the fact that Pakistan is not going to be one of the elite sides in the world because Pakistan doesn’t know what it takes to be an elite side.

We don’t have the process for it and it is what it is. Stop overrating the team and stop expecting performances that they are incapable of producing. Be proud of what they are because it could be a lot worse.

 

[I think therfore I am]

@ExpressPacer

Have Pakistan improved over the last couple of years? Yes for sure, but it is all relative because Pakistan is not playing its old self. It is competing with the best teams in the world.

Can Pakistan beat full-strength India, England, Australia and New Zealand in an ODI series?

No it cannot in any conditions. That is the true reality of this team and its relative strength.

Pakistan can fluke a win or two here and there in ODIs against these top sides, but you need to produce consistency over a long period to win a World Cup especially in the ODI format.

Pakistan is simply incapable of that. If Pakistan can make the semis somehow and beat a top team or two, Pakistani fans should be happy because that is the best this team devoid of talent, skill, character and poise can achieve.

As I always say, Pakistan’s problem is not the weaknesses of the team but the misplaced expectations of the fans.

if you expect a crow to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the crow’s.

There are hundreds of sports teams around the world that will never reach the top level and win things and their fans know it but it doesn’t stop them from loving and supporting their team.

Pakistani fans should love and support their team but they should also make peace with the fact that Pakistan is not going to be one of the elite sides in the world because Pakistan doesn’t know what it takes to be an elite side.

We don’t have the process for it and it is what it is. Stop overrating the team and stop expecting performances that they are incapable of producing. Be proud of what they are because it could be a lot worse.

No chance of winning the world cup. England, Australia and India will beat Pak easily. I feel Sri Lanka will suprise everyone at this WC

 

[MenInG]

Some interesting thoughts.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704467348608954731

 

[Savak]

@ExpressPacer

Have Pakistan improved over the last couple of years? Yes for sure, but it is all relative because Pakistan is not playing its old self. It is competing with the best teams in the world.

Can Pakistan beat full-strength India, England, Australia and New Zealand in an ODI series?

No it cannot in any conditions. That is the true reality of this team and its relative strength.

Pakistan can fluke a win or two here and there in ODIs against these top sides, but you need to produce consistency over a long period to win a World Cup especially in the ODI format.

Pakistan is simply incapable of that. If Pakistan can make the semis somehow and beat a top team or two, Pakistani fans should be happy because that is the best this team devoid of talent, skill, character and poise can achieve.

As I always say, Pakistan’s problem is not the weaknesses of the team but the misplaced expectations of the fans.

if you expect a crow to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the crow’s.

There are hundreds of sports teams around the world that will never reach the top level and win things and their fans know it but it doesn’t stop them from loving and supporting their team.

Pakistani fans should love and support their team but they should also make peace with the fact that Pakistan is not going to be one of the elite sides in the world because Pakistan doesn’t know what it takes to be an elite side.

We don’t have the process for it and it is what it is. Stop overrating the team and stop expecting performances that they are incapable of producing. Be proud of what they are because it could be a lot worse.

Disagree with this. One should strive for greatness and aim for the best. If parents did not push and drive their kids hard, they will always cop out with the easy excuse, this is the best we can do, there is no point pushing us further. The Pakistani players must be put under immense pressure to bring out their A game in this high profile tournament. We are a very dheet lazy nation who need a danda at all times to deliver the highest possible output.

 

[Savak]

In my WC watching experience, the WC is mostly about momentum, the best possible teams can end up peaking too early and then running out of steam and faltering at the crucial knock out game.

 

[hass]

Not reading this thread just going off the title.

I don't see how this team is relatively stronger and in better form than the team that went to the 2011 tournament. Afridi, Ajmal and Gul were on an absolute rampage at the time. Pakistan ran a train through that tournament and still choked on the big stage in Mohali. How is this team in any shape to go one better? Maybe we have better batting now on paper but our strength really was based on this bowling unit more than anything and it's not working out right now.

In the recent Asia Cup, Pakistan truly did not demonstrate any quality in the captaincy, the management or the performances under any pressure. It genuinely baffles me how this team was ranked top going into it.

I get that we go through every ICC event with vibes and an unexplainable momentum. But looking at the quality of the opposition at large I cannot see how this team can overcome being the 7th best side at best? Even in Asian conditions and factoring in past bottling by the likes of South Africa (which I don't think will happen this time btw) we might climb 1 or 2 places up. Still not enough for a semi final berth.

That is asking for too many upsets. Naseem likely being out for the whole tournament, Rauf not being 100% and our spin options (that the selection and team management group actually like) are woefully out of form. These are massive blows as well. Batting composition does not look right either and I fail to see an attacking opening partnership or a strong middle order yet.

I certainly think changes will be needed just to give the team some momentum and we'll need to see a complete U-turn on form for some players such as Shadab. Some players should straight up not even be involved, such as Agha Salman and Faheem Ashraf.

I'd have Rizwan opening for sure and then it's a case of choosing between Imam/Fakhar/Shafique to partner him. Only Fakhar from that list is in any way suited to batting at number 3 but if we don't have an attacking player partnering Rizwan we're looking at an even slower strike rate than we currently do. Tough call that. I'd probably go with Babar at 3. Not sure about 4. Chacha at 5 latest 6. Something is definitely missing that middle order though and a bunch of all-rounders aren't fixing that. Faheem Ashraf is certainly not fixing that.

This is why I would probably like to see Abrar there just because we need a breakout spinner to have any chance of going far.

 

[Kriketer]

Even if Imam has improved and Babar is much better against spin, they are still far short by international standards.

@mominsaigol point is still valid.

Their improvement and ceiling is so low at the moment that they are still terrible compared to other teams players.

We can fluke our way to a semi final by good bowling only.

Asking Babar and Imam to chase 300 on a flat pancake is would leave them looking constipated each and every time (yeah I know that century vs Nepal is amazing).

Didn't Pakistan chase 350 last year against Australia and Babar scored a century? I think you guys are way over reacting to recent defeats.

Chasing big total is not easy for any team. Put a bit of pressure, early wickets and you can pretty much predict the end result. In those usual scenarios rarely a player will play out of his skin to win the game while chasing a big score. Pakistani players sure have the capability to chase down good scores in subcontinent. They may be a bit short on mental game while chasing compared to few other teams but they certainly have the capability to do so in Asian conditions.

 

[TheSultan]

In my WC watching experience, the WC is mostly about momentum, the best possible teams can end up peaking too early and then running out of steam and faltering at the crucial knock out game.

Agreed but it is not just about momentum. The team needs some matchwinners. You need those matchwinners to get on that roll and maintain it for the rest of the tournament. It’s generally about the best players coming to the fore.

You can’t just be a steady eddie side and go on a run all the way to victory in the tournament.

You need to have some greatness or potential greatness in your side.

Pakistan and our current crop of players being considered for selection are not that side

 

[heddie19]

My man, it isn’t about being a fanboy. I’m just surprised that you seem to look last straight facts and exaggerate Pakistan’s failures.

For instance, you seem to think Babar is a bunny against spin. When I present evidence otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

You seem to think Imam has not improved his game whatsoever, and when I present stats that suggest otherwise, you resort to personal attacks.

I’d spend my whole day on this post if I carry on this list.

Seems like it is still early days for you here. Learn to respect others even if you disagree.

Babar averages 77 at a strike rate of 88 against spin in his ODI career. Who is whos bunny now? Get your facts straight. Cricket isn't only the matches you were able to see @mominsaigol

 

[heddie19]

Because babar is going to get cremated against kuldeep or zampa in this tournament. What part of that do you not understand? The sane way he got cremated against jaysuria in test.

Your so called stats argument is nonsense, by this logic imam ul haq is 100x the player inzi ever was due to stats. Stats don't tell a story, it's an extremely extremely common fact that babar and imam are the pinnacle of stats padding their way to the top.

Anyone who has watched imam knows that his 2nd 50 comes slower then his first 50. And the rate at which he now scores a century has diminished. He has yet to replicate his once in a blue moon 150 that he once managed to do.

Your stats stats argument is nonsense.

Don't quote me about respect when you're the guy who resorted to personal attacks in the first place. Like bhai Mirror mein apnei ap ko dekho. You're the type of guy to ignore every argument and then outright tell others their critically inept. . Damag tera kisik gayea hai?

Please do the math Mr. Bunny before sharing only what your deluded mind asks you to post, which is very opposite to the reality. This was before SLs game. I added SLs score vs spin and added wellalage's dismissal. Babar averages 77 vs spin at the strike rate of 88.5. Who is who's bunny now?
Babar dominates spin like no other.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar averages 77 at a strike rate of 88 against spin in his ODI career. Who is whos bunny now? Get your facts straight. Cricket isn't only the matches you were able to see @mominsaigol

Ish sodhi Level spinners don't count. Don't educate me on stats, as I said, they don't tell the whole story

 

[heddie19]

Ish sodhi Level spinners don't count. Don't educate me on stats, as I said, they don't tell the whole story

So the statisticians need to ask you instead? You tell the whole story?
Do us a favor and stop getting embarrased further

 

[Savak]

Not reading this thread just going off the title.

I don't see how this team is relatively stronger and in better form than the team that went to the 2011 tournament. Afridi, Ajmal and Gul were on an absolute rampage at the time. Pakistan ran a train through that tournament and still choked on the big stage in Mohali. How is this team in any shape to go one better? Maybe we have better batting now on paper but our strength really was based on this bowling unit more than anything and it's not working out right now.

In the recent Asia Cup, Pakistan truly did not demonstrate any quality in the captaincy, the management or the performances under any pressure. It genuinely baffles me how this team was ranked top going into it.

I get that we go through every ICC event with vibes and an unexplainable momentum. But looking at the quality of the opposition at large I cannot see how this team can overcome being the 7th best side at best? Even in Asian conditions and factoring in past bottling by the likes of South Africa (which I don't think will happen this time btw) we might climb 1 or 2 places up. Still not enough for a semi final berth.

That is asking for too many upsets. Naseem likely being out for the whole tournament, Rauf not being 100% and our spin options (that the selection and team management group actually like) are woefully out of form. These are massive blows as well. Batting composition does not look right either and I fail to see an attacking opening partnership or a strong middle order yet.

I certainly think changes will be needed just to give the team some momentum and we'll need to see a complete U-turn on form for some players such as Shadab. Some players should straight up not even be involved, such as Agha Salman and Faheem Ashraf.

I'd have Rizwan opening for sure and then it's a case of choosing between Imam/Fakhar/Shafique to partner him. Only Fakhar from that list is in any way suited to batting at number 3 but if we don't have an attacking player partnering Rizwan we're looking at an even slower strike rate than we currently do. Tough call that. I'd probably go with Babar at 3. Not sure about 4. Chacha at 5 latest 6. Something is definitely missing that middle order though and a bunch of all-rounders aren't fixing that. Faheem Ashraf is certainly not fixing that.

This is why I would probably like to see Abrar there just because we need a breakout spinner to have any chance of going far.

Champions Trophy 2017 Pakistan had barely qualified for the tournament. All the teams very strong and non of the analysts except for Ramiz even called Pakistan favorites.

Pakistan was blown away by India in the group stage but since that game the team got momentum and peaked at the right time.

Everyone was fearful how we would do against the Invincible England team in the Semi Final. It's all about who plays well on the day.

 

[Kriketer]

Buddy, I turned you into my bunny, sit down boi .

With all due respect you have been posting nonstop with a box of tissue next to you on Pakistani cricket here it seems along with few others, some have been good points but majority are simply panics. ExpressPacer has made some really good points here so you haven't made anyone your bunny.

It will be all down to momentum, and it doesn't matter how good a team is on paper, India is the best example always goes in as favorite but chokes big times. As always tournament is wide open for various teams and I can confidently access Pakistan being among the top 3 to win it

 

[TheSultan]

Please do the math Mr. Bunny before sharing only what your deluded mind asks you to post, which is very opposite to the reality. This was before SLs game. I added SLs score vs spin and added wellalage's dismissal. Babar averages 77 vs spin at the strike rate of 88.5. Who is who's bunny now?
Babar dominates spin like no other.

View attachment 136587

This is exactly why babar will continue to be a stat padder.

The real fans of babar are the ones who want him to improve. All these fanboyish arguments and infographics without any context just keep babar where he’s at.

Most of us actually want Babar to succeed. But success is not about your stats. Success is about achievement. Achievement is about making the telling contributions at the right time, in the crunch games, at the crucial moments.

 

[mominsaigol]

This is exactly why babar will continue to be a stat padder.

The real fans of babar are the ones who want him to improve. All these fanboyish arguments and infographics without any context just keep babar where he’s at.

Most of us actually want Babar to succeed. But success is not about your stats. Success is about achievement. Achievement is about making the telling contributions at the right time, in the crunch games, at the crucial moments.

Everyone here attacking me, when the entire post was made by the pinnacle of bias people.

I straight up want Pakistan to improve lol, I dream of living in a world where one day we literally start dominating and treating every team as if they were a minnow, kinda similar to how Australia use to from 1996 to 2007. Literally every team use to be a minnow to that Australia.

But atm that ain't happening. Forget about treating big teams like minnows, I'm pretty sure they treat us like minnows lol.

 

[heddie19]

This is exactly why babar will continue to be a stat padder.

The real fans of babar are the ones who want him to improve. All these fanboyish arguments and infographics without any context just keep babar where he’s at.

Most of us actually want Babar to succeed. But success is not about your stats. Success is about achievement. Achievement is about making the telling contributions at the right time, in the crunch games, at the crucial moments.

Some achievments of Babar till date.

1. Highest run scorer of T20 WC 2021

2. Sir Garfield Sobers ICC Cricketer of the year 2022.

3. ODI cricketer of the year 2021

4. Captain of the team T20WC 2021

5. Won 2 T20 trophies (KK, ISLU)

6. 473 runs in an 8 innings the grandest stage of them all. ICC WC. the likes of smiths and kohlis tried thrice, never even came close. (not to forget it was Babar's first WC)

7. Player of the tournament when KK lifted the trophy (something kohli should have done in 2016 but alas, he always fails)

8. Highest run scorer in PSL all-tome

9. 10 T20 tons, yep that's right.

10. 2x international tons while sucessfully chasing target of 200+ (virat doesn't even come close)


Now talking about his pressure match-winning knocks

1. Stood firm in a D/L chase against SA at around 30* something - CT '17

2. Stood notout in the SF against Eng around 40* something - CT '17

3. Scored a vital 46 and played accumulator's role to its best in his first ever major final - CT '17

4. Scored 65 against ENG after coming from back from the thrashing WI gave us - WC '19

5. Scored 69 against SA in WC '19

6. Scored undefeated 102* against NZ on a very tricky pitch and a must win game - WC '19

7. Scored run a ball 47 against afghanistan in a must win game - WC '19

8. Scored run a ball 96 in a must win game against BD - WC '19

9. Scored undefeated 69* against india in our first WC win over them - T20 WC '21

10. Scored a matchwinning 50 against afghani spin on a turning track of Sharjah - T20 WC '21

11. Scored 195 against Australia to save a test match. (only naming it because Wisden added it into top 5 match-saving innings ever in the history of cricket)

12. Scored 54 in a WC SF - T20 WC' 22

I have been watching cricket since 1999, I have seen all the batters and of this and previous generation and I shall tell you that this guy is special, amongst the very best to ever hold a bat. You may call it fanboism or anything, I don't mind. I lost interest in cricket post 2011 WC and it is due to Babar that made me go crazy for this sport again. I haven't missed a single match that Babar has played, watched them all live.

Everyone has the room for improvement and so does Babar, yes. I am truly concerned about his performance at the WC bec he didn't do well in the last T20 WC but was impeccable in every World event before.

The only thing that is eating me from inside is not his game against spin, I have seen him taking on both Rashids in the last WC, it is his stats vs India and as I already told it to @Mamoon in some different thread, he needs to change it or it will be tag he will have to wear throughout his life. He needs to do better vs india or win a WC as a captain or as one of the top performers in order to remove that tag.

We all want Pakistan Azam to reign supreme. InshaAllah and Aameen.

 

[mominsaigol]

With all due respect you have been posting nonstop with a box of tissue next to you on Pakistani cricket here it seems along with few others, some have been good points but majority are simply panics. ExpressPacer has made some really good points here so you haven't made anyone your bunny.

It will be all down to momentum, and it doesn't matter how good a team is on paper, India is the best example always goes in as favorite but chokes big times. As always tournament is wide open for various teams and I can confidently access Pakistan being among the top 3 to win it

His points are literally stats, stats, stats . Please enlighten me on his points.

Also as for your India point, I already agree with that. I never said pakistan can't win, I just said if we do, it'll be a miracle.

Ct 2017 was different, Firstly the captain at the time was excellent when it came to instilling a winning mindset something sarfraz has spoken in detail in his nadir Ali podcast. Secondly sarfraz wasn't clueless, he was quick to dispatch Ahmed shezad from the squad and bring him fakhar who was in Red hot form and was young at the time.

Sarfraz also rotated his bowlers alot, lastly our overall team was much much superior in 2017. Azhar isn't as consistent as Imam but azhar strikes and speeds up well and played a champions knock imam could only dream of. Fakhar was in match winning form, hafeez, malik, imad, Haris sohail and Sarfraz make for a much much stronger middle order with much better bowling options then the likes of agha, Chacha, Shadab and Faheem/Nawaz.

Amir in that tournament was also bowling much much better then our current bowling trio. His inswings were unplayable and shaheen could only dream of bowling such deliveries. I'm not saying amir is better then shaheen cause amir did regress later, but amir in 2017 was next to unplayable against England and India.

Our current team however is extremely extremely low on confidence, with a captain who can't lead, pur main pacers being injured and unfit, and our top order composed of accumulators and a bits and pieces middle order which frankly speaking is beyond atrocious at bowling.

Our only hope was our bowling trio which isn't even an option anymore due to naseem being out and haris and shaheen's fitness being up for debate. Without our bowling trio we can't even beat Sri lanka lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

Some achievments of Babar till date.

1. Highest run scorer of T20 WC 2021

2. Sir Garfield Sobers ICC Cricketer of the year 2022.

3. ODI cricketer of the year 2021

4. Captain of the team T20WC 2021

5. Won 2 T20 trophies (KK, ISLU)

6. 473 runs in an 8 innings the grandest stage of them all. ICC WC. the likes of smiths and kohlis tried thrice, never even came close. (not to forget it was Babar's first WC)

7. Player of the tournament when KK lifted the trophy (something kohli should have done in 2016 but alas, he always fails)

8. Highest run scorer in PSL all-tome

9. 10 T20 tons, yep that's right.

10. 2x international tons while sucessfully chasing target of 200+ (virat doesn't even come close)


Now talking about his pressure match-winning knocks

1. Stood firm in a D/L chase against SA at around 30* something - CT '17

2. Stood notout in the SF against Eng around 40* something - CT '17

3. Scored a vital 46 and played accumulator's role to its best in his first ever major final - CT '17

4. Scored 65 against ENG after coming from back from the thrashing WI gave us - WC '19

5. Scored 69 against SA in WC '19

6. Scored undefeated 102* against NZ on a very tricky pitch and a must win game - WC '19

7. Scored run a ball 47 against afghanistan in a must win game - WC '19

8. Scored run a ball 96 in a must win game against BD - WC '19

9. Scored undefeated 69* against india in our first WC win over them - T20 WC '21

10. Scored a matchwinning 50 against afghani spin on a turning track of Sharjah - T20 WC '21

11. Scored 195 against Australia to save a test match. (only naming it because Wisden added it into top 5 match-saving innings ever in the history of cricket)

12. Scored 54 in a WC SF - T20 WC' 22

I have been watching cricket since 1999, I have seen all the batters and of this and previous generation and I shall tell you that this guy is special, amongst the very best to ever hold a bat. You may call it fanboism or anything, I don't mind. I lost interest in cricket post 2011 WC and it is due to Babar that made me go crazy for this sport again. I haven't missed a single match that Babar has played, watched them all live.

Everyone has the room for improvement and so does Babar, yes. I am truly concerned about his performance at the WC bec he didn't do well in the last T20 WC but was impeccable in every World event before.

The only thing that is eating me from inside is not his game against spin, I have seen him taking on both Rashids in the last WC, it is his stats vs India and as I already told it to @Mamoon in some different thread, he needs to change it or it will be tag he will have to wear throughout his life. He needs to do better vs india or win a WC as a captain or as one of the top performers in order to remove that tag.

We all want Pakistan Azam to reign supreme. InshaAllah and Aameen.

At this point you might as well argue for express pacer since unlike him, your points are actually decent. His points were atrocious and beyond terrible. Regardless let me address your points.

No one is saying babar is a bad player. But the reason I am limiting to 2023 because rn only 2023 matters. Wc is in 2023 and current forms will translate into the cup.

In 2023 babar hasn't been that great. His 2 odi centuries one against nz and one against Nepal was a c string NZ and Nepal is a minnow.

He failed in the test series altogether. Currently he's been a bunny to spin which is worrying signs because our best player can't play spin.

In the examples you've mentioned babar is also an accumulator in said examples, not a match winning striker. He doesn't have kohli level impact. Problem is we have way too many accumulators in the side now.

No more fakhar, or hafeez or malik or imad to hold babar's hand anymore unlike 2017.

 

[heddie19]

At this point you might as well argue for express pacer since unlike him, your points are actually decent. His points were atrocious and beyond terrible. Regardless let me address your points.

No one is saying babar is a bad player. But the reason I am limiting to 2023 because rn only 2023 matters. Wc is in 2023 and current forms will translate into the cup.

In 2023 babar hasn't been that great. His 2 odi centuries one against nz and one against Nepal was a c string NZ and Nepal is a minnow.

He failed in the test series altogether. Currently he's been a bunny to spin which is worrying signs because our best player can't play spin.

In the examples you've mentioned babar is also an accumulator in said examples, not a match winning striker. He doesn't have kohli level impact. Problem is we have way too many accumulators in the side now.

No more fakhar, or hafeez or malik or imad to hold babar's hand anymore unlike 2017.

His 2023 ODI stats are below Babar's standards. I agree. but he is still averging 51 at SR of 96 in 2023. He needs to improve further come this WC and score 450-500 runs again at least. Secondly, pitches won't turn in India as they did in SL. Plus our games are on the tracks that don't support spin a lot. Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Bengaluru are belters and have nothing for spin. Chennai could be tricky and Kolkata is 50-50. So I am expecting our batter to do well, not just Babar.

Now coming to your second point, roles are defined based on your team's strength as well as match situation. Kohli has been an accumulator throughout his career but did take the charge too when needed. His century against us in WC '15 was pure accumulation and wasn't it match winning. Even in his last innings he was playing 2nd fiddle to KL at least for the first 60-70 runs.

Even the mighty ABD played an accumulator to Miller in WC SF '15. So that is not a problem IMO. Sachin was an accumulator throughout his career and even more with Sehwag and I rate him as the best I have ever seen. There is no shame in being an accumalator it is just a role of Cricket. Defenders, Wingers and Midfielders score way less than Strikers/Forwards but they are as important as them.

 

[mominsaigol]

His 2023 ODI stats are below Babar's standards. I agree. but he is still averging 51 at SR of 96 in 2023. He needs to improve further come this WC and score 450-500 runs again at least. Secondly, pitches won't turn in India as they did in SL. Plus our games are on the tracks that don't support spin a lot. Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Bengaluru are belters and have nothing for spin. Chennai could be tricky and Kolkata is 50-50. So I am expecting our batter to do well, not just Babar.

Now coming to your second point, roles are defined based on your team's strength as well as match situation. Kohli has been an accumulator throughout his career but did take the charge too when needed. His century against us in WC '15 was pure accumulation and wasn't it match winning. Even in his last innings he was playing 2nd fiddle to KL at least for the first 60-70 runs.

Even the mighty ABD played an accumulator to Miller in WC SF '15. So that is not a problem IMO. Sachin was an accumulator throughout his career and even more with Sehwag and I rate him as the best I have ever seen. There is no shame in being an accumalator it is just a role of Cricket. Defenders, Wingers and Midfielders score way less than Strikers/Forwards but they are as important as them.

Difference is kohli and ab can go into 4th and 5th gear relatively quickly, in case of ab he can go at it from the get go.

Kohli has dominated bowlers which babar has not. Babar is a good player. I have never ever denied that, but he is simply an accumulator, one who tends to slow down to achieve his personal milestone.

Unless it's a minnow, babar won't accelerate too much. Kholi and ab are virtually compared to the likes pointing, Viv Richards, Sachin. I'm not saying these 2 are superior to them, but the fact their compared at all showcases their caliber.

Anytime babar is compared to Bradman or any of these players it spawns entire meme threads.

Babar is a good batsmen, Kohli and ab are far far far beyond his caliber, same with Sachin, babar ain't ever coming close to achieving a 200 in odi.

 

[Saj]

Naseem Shah is a huge loss.

I think he would have been one of the stars of this World Cup.

He was in great form and his confidence was high.

Difficult to replace him at the moment.

 

[heddie19]

Difference is kohli and ab can go into 4th and 5th gear relatively quickly, in case of ab he can go at it from the get go.

Kohli has dominated bowlers which babar has not. Babar is a good player. I have never ever denied that, but he is simply an accumulator, one who tends to slow down to achieve his personal milestone.

Unless it's a minnow, babar won't accelerate too much. Kholi and ab are virtually compared to the likes pointing, Viv Richards, Sachin. I'm not saying these 2 are superior to them, but the fact their compared at all showcases their caliber.

Anytime babar is compared to Bradman or any of these players it spawns entire meme threads.

Babar is a good batsmen, Kohli and ab are far far far beyond his caliber, same with Sachin, babar ain't ever coming close to achieving a 200 in odi.

That is again your biasness speaking. Babar would have already scored a 200 had he started opening for the team like the great Tendu. Kohli doesn't have 200 in white ball format either. There is no thread of his comparison with Bradman, IDK what are you talking about. No, he is not far far far behind than the player you have mentioned, he is really close and might in fact top half of them with an inning or two in the WC

 

[mominsaigol]

That is again your biasness speaking. Babar would have already scored a 200 had he started opening for the team like the great Tendu. Kohli doesn't have 200 in white ball format either. There is no thread of his comparison with Bradman, IDK what are you talking about. No, he is not far far far behind than the player you have mentioned, he is really close and might in fact top half of them with an inning or two in the WC

That smile emoji of yours just gives it away. Rahnei dei bro

 

[jnaveen1980]

Looking at the stats for different positions of batting Pakistan heavily relies on imeptus from 4 to 9. Different team depending on acceleration from different positions. India and Australia heavily rely on top order. SA relies heavily on Middle order. Pakistan relies on lower order. This will play a role in Pakistan's fortunes.

Last 2 years

For instance for 7 to 9 batting position

Scotland 126 strike rate
Ireland 110.98 strike rate
Pakistan 101.80 strike rate
NZ 98.93
England 98.27
Australia 94.90
SA 92.34
Afghanistan 88.85
SL 86.44
India 85.39


For 4 to 6 batting position

South Africa 110.49 SR
England 95.84 SR
Pakistan 92.72
India 89.93
Australia 87.47
SL 84.52
NZ 84.02


For 1 to 3 batting position


Australia 98.52
India 97.08
SA 89.93
England 89.79
Pakistan 86.49
SL 86.38
NZ 82.75

 

[Rana]

OP is very optimistic but PCB clearly isn’t

Too much confusion on the squad

 

[hassan918]

No one can predict the result when Pakistan cricket takes on the field. One day they rollover their opposition when not many giving them a chance to win the match and next day they can put up a disappointing performance even against a mediocre team. Pakistan surely have many talented players at the moment and they can definitely reach the semi-finals of the upcoming World Cup.

 

[Syed1]

We can't wish away our issues. Ind, SL and BD all had 100 run partnerships against us in the middle overs in this Asia Cup. Which means if even if the pacemen upfront rip through a top order teams can still recover and post a good total. If pacemen don't demolish the top order then we get carted around and opposition will score 350.


Shadab and Nawaz have to seriously improve or we may need to bring in someone else we are to stand a chance.

 

[Saj]

You look at the number of world class players, number of match-winners and you wonder just where the wins against the best teams are going to come from.

It's not looking good, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[mominsaigol]

No one can predict the result when Pakistan cricket takes on the field. One day they rollover their opposition when not many giving them a chance to win the match and next day they can put up a disappointing performance even against a mediocre team. Pakistan surely have many talented players at the moment and they can definitely reach the semi-finals of the upcoming World Cup.

I will predict the result with flying colors if pakistan takes the same team for the world cup that they took for the Asia cup.

Which tbf I now think management will state the same tmr. Doubt any changes will actually be made.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That is again your biasness speaking. Babar would have already scored a 200 had he started opening for the team like the great Tendu. Kohli doesn't have 200 in white ball format either. There is no thread of his comparison with Bradman, IDK what are you talking about. No, he is not far far far behind than the player you have mentioned, he is really close and might in fact top half of them with an inning or two in the WC

Plenty of times Fakhar/Imam got out early enough, why no double hundred then from Babar, bro?

 

[sam_ahm]

It is not looking good for Pakistan, but Pakistan is ...well... Pakistan! and this mercurial side can always do something no one expects. How many of us thought Pak will still make the finals after defeats to India and Zimbabwe at last year's T20 WC?

One thing is for sure though, Pakistan will have to play out of their skins if they are to win the World Cup. Every single player will have to push above their weight. If they can do it or not, time will tell.

As fans, you guys need to back your team.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It is not looking good for Pakistan, but Pakistan is ...well... Pakistan! and this mercurial side can always do something no one expects. How many of us thought Pak will still make the finals after defeats to India and Zimbabwe at last year's T20 WC?

One thing is for sure though, Pakistan will have to play out of their skins if they are to win the World Cup. Every single player will have to push above their weight. If they can do it or not, time will tell.

As fans, you guys need to back your team.

I can see Pakistan making semis - if one of SA/IND/OZ - have a stinker. Just don't see this side winning the cup.

 

[Ahmed216]

It is not looking good for Pakistan, but Pakistan is ...well... Pakistan! and this mercurial side can always do something no one expects. How many of us thought Pak will still make the finals after defeats to India and Zimbabwe at last year's T20 WC?

One thing is for sure though, Pakistan will have to play out of their skins if they are to win the World Cup. Every single player will have to push above their weight. If they can do it or not, time will tell.

As fans, you guys need to back your team.

T20 format is different. Longer the format more the difference in quality between two sides gets exposed

 

[160KPH]

The rules were the same for Pakistan’s opponents in those rain affected games

No one is disputing that Pakistan lost fair and square.

I’m only disputing that you can’t extrapolate from 2 rain affected games versus the past couple of years of performances. Massive overreaction like usual by Pakistani fans.

 

[160KPH]

Pakistan is so unpredictable and dangerous that they haven’t played an ODI World Cup final in 24 years.

You can basically make these type of comments about any team.

England, the country where cricket was born, is so dangerous that they have only made one ODI World Cup Final in the last 30 years. A final which they barely won at home due to the tiebreaker of having scored more 4’s in the innings against a team from a nation of 10x less people.

India is so dangerous that that they have not made a single World T20 Final since the first edition. And only made 2 ODI Finals in the last 40 years - one of which was the largest margin of loss in World Cup final history and the second which they won which was at home. (last 4 out of 5 WCs have been won by the home team)