Pakistan to repay $6.5b debt over the next 15 months

[Syed1]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will return $6.5 billion external public debt in the next 15 months alone. This repayment will take the total official debt repayments during the five-year tenure of the PML-N government to a whopping $21 billion.

The Ministry of Finance shared these staggering figures with the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Revenue on Tuesday. The $6.5 billion repayments will be made from February this year to June 2018 excluding the interest paid on the principal amount, said the ministry.

In three years, Pakistan has taken on $25b in fresh loans

“We have no issues in making these payments,” Federal Secretary Finance Tariq Bajwa said.

To a question about possibility of floating yet another international bond, Bajwa said the government would inform the committee about this issue at an appropriate time. The $6.5 billion repayments are only on account of the government debt and do not include publicly guaranteed debt and the private sector external debt. From June 2013 to January 2017, the PML-N government repaid $14.6 billion to external creditors. In addition to that, it has already paid over $3.1 billion on account of interest on the stock of roughly $60 billion external public debt, according to the Debt Office of the Finance Ministry.

The PML-N government came to power in June 2013 and it will complete its five-year constitutional term by June next year. During this period, it resorted to heavy and expensive external borrowings after it failed to increase exports and attract foreign direct investment.

The government has so far borrowed expensive almost $5 billion by floating international bonds and contracting short-term commercial loans with foreign commercial banks. In addition to that, it has taken heavy loans from multilateral creditors.

The ministry said Pakistan will return $858 million to foreign commercial banks in the next 15 months, taking the figure to $1.84 billion since June 2014. The country will also repay $750 million next month on account of dollar denominated bond, which will take the total bonds repayment figure to $1.25 billion.

Similarly, roughly $3 billion will be repaid to multilateral creditors between March this year to June 2018. The total repayments to the multilateral creditors will increase to $9.3 billion during the five-year PML-N term. Pakistan will repay $1.8 billion external debt to bilateral countries in the next 15 months, taking the total repayments in five years to $4.2 billion. It will also return $42 million to IMF that will bring the total repayment to the global lender to $4.53 billion.

An official of the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) informed the standing committee that the external debt was increasing due to contraction in growth of exports and slight deceleration in growth of foreign remittances.

Pakistan’s debt pile soars to Rs22.5tr

He claimed that the overall trend in the financial account was positive during the current fiscal year 2016-17 due to positive impact of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) related investment. However, he failed to answer a question about the ratio of equity and debt of the CPEC investment.

The official said the CPEC transactions are settled outside Pakistan and the SBP was seeking details from the Chinese companies.

PERA Amendments

The government opposed Senator Saleem Mandviwalla’s private member bill to amend Pakistan Economic Reforms Protection Act (PERA) of 1992. The 1992 law provides complete immunity to the foreign currency account holders and has become a source of outward flow of US dollars.

“The private member bill raised the question of the constitutionality of the bill, as under the Constitution only the federal government can bring changes in the laws related to the SBP,” said Bajwa.

Chinese concept of Silk Roads beyond CPEC, says Dr Di Meglio

However, he said, the government would give serious considerations to the recommendations of the standing committee on foreign exchange regime but would not support the Bill.

Senator Mandviwalla was of the view that his bill did not violate the Constitution. The committee decided to refer the matter to Senate Chairman Raza Rabbani for a decision.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1342072/pakistan-repay-6-5b-debt-next-15-months/

 

[Syed1]

Can we have any of the resident Nooras like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] or [MENTION=138894]Flat_Track_Bully[/MENTION] shed some light on this? A meaningless tweet or statement on a sporting event garners two, three pages worth of posts by these lot, but the Noora government can go on destroying the country with debt burden and not a peep from these people.

 

[Bewal Express]

Brother, you wont see thieving Nooras and their supporter for dust on here. One of them had the gall to lecture on me how brilliantly they had with the economy and the foreign investments.

 

[WebGuru]

Don't worry munshi Ishaq Dar will find another shortcut to get us out of this mess...

 

[Mian]

Where are all the nooras? [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] show your faces here

 

[Waseem]

Apparently circular debt is back to 2013 level as well, they will find another scheme/scam to charge additional tax and make these repayments.

 

[Moiza]

Not a PMLN supported. Voted for PTI and will do so in the future

-Pakistanis don't want to and don't pay tax because the govt is corrupt
-Pakistanis then bash the government for being corrupt and not causing any development
-Govt takes loans to finance projects to satisfy the masses
-Govt repays the loans they have taken to finance the development project
-Pakistanis bash the govt for taking loans and being corrupt
-Pakistanis don't want to pay taxes

How do you justify this? Development bhi chahiya , Tax bhi nahi dena, Loan bhi nahi lena.

 

[Mian]

Not a PMLN supported. Voted for PTI and will do so in the future

-Pakistanis don't want to and don't pay tax because the govt is corrupt
-Pakistanis then bash the government for being corrupt and not causing any development
-Govt takes loans to finance projects to satisfy the masses
-Govt repays the loans they have taken to finance the development project
-Pakistanis bash the govt for taking loans and being corrupt
-Pakistanis don't want to pay taxes

How do you justify this? Development bhi chahiya , Tax bhi nahi dena, Loan bhi nahi lena.

Why should a person pay taxes if he knows the leaders sitting on top are corrupt and his money is going in their pockets and the elite class isn't paying taxes? You know what there are just too many indirect taxes that govt is getting on every item we buy sell from a mobile card to a bottle of shampoo and medicine and drinks and almost every item that a lower and middle class person use regularly. In Pakistan only air is tax free

 

[Zahid87]

Why should a person pay taxes if he knows the leaders sitting on top are corrupt and his money is going in their pockets and the elite class isn't paying taxes? You know what there are just too many indirect taxes that govt is getting on every item we buy sell from a mobile card to a bottle of shampoo and medicine and drinks and almost every item that a lower and middle class person use regularly. In Pakistan only air is tax free

Indirect taxes have to be put on because people are unwilling to pay income tax.

On one hand, you want the government to develop the country, and to maintain the pre-existing facilities, but then on the other you don't want to foot the bill.

Can't have it both ways. Always riles me on how normal people go on about corruption, but then are ever ready to break the rules too.

Tax evasion at the upper levels will always happen, in every country. Not an excuse that the elite get away with it. Its a problem that the world faces, and can't solve. But at least lower and middle class should pay their dues, otherwise the country will continue to head nowhere.

 

[Moiza]

Why should a person pay taxes if he knows the leaders sitting on top are corrupt and his money is going in their pockets and the elite class isn't paying taxes? You know what there are just too many indirect taxes that govt is getting on every item we buy sell from a mobile card to a bottle of shampoo and medicine and drinks and almost every item that a lower and middle class person use regularly. In Pakistan only air is tax free

Elite in every part of the world try to find ways to escape taxation, in third world countries it's just easier for them, this isn't some new revelation. All the tax money doesn't go into the pockets of Nooras, how do you think hundreds of thousands of government employees get their pays?

Indirect taxation fills in some of the gaps but it can never be as effective as Direct taxation. Pakistanis should either stop asking for development or they should stop blaming the government unless and until they themselves are not paying their taxes.

By the way, what specific indirect taxes are you talking about in your posts? Im extremely well educated on the matters of taxation in Pakistan and I can assure you that on almost 95% of the normal use products there isnt any other tax besides the usual 17% sales tax.

 

[Mian]

Elite in every part of the world try to find ways to escape taxation, in third world countries it's just easier for them, this isn't some new revelation. All the tax money doesn't go into the pockets of Nooras, how do you think hundreds of thousands of government employees get their pays?

Indirect taxation fills in some of the gaps but it can never be as effective as Direct taxation. Pakistanis should either stop asking for development or they should stop blaming the government unless and until they themselves are not paying their taxes.

By the way, what specific indirect taxes are you talking about in your posts? Im extremely well educated on the matters of taxation in Pakistan and I can assure you that on almost 95% of the normal use products there isnt any other tax besides the usual 17% sales tax.

Tax on telecommunication, Internet and petroleum products for example isn't 17% and gst is an indirect tax om everyone from someone earning 200 rupees daily to someone earning 20,000 daily

 

[Moiza]

Tax on telecommunication, Internet and petroleum products for example isn't 17% and gst is an indirect tax om everyone from someone earning 200 rupees daily to someone earning 20,000 daily

How is the government suppose to develop a country as big as Pakistan with expectation even bigger without an tax money and loans?Taxes through Indirect taxation are definitely not enough.

 

[Mamoon]

Brilliant posts by Moiza and Zahid87. Thanks for saving me the pain of spelling it out.

Hypocrites have been exposed in this thread. The excuse that we don't pay taxes because the govt. is corrupt is so ridiculous it's not even laughable.

 

[Mian]

How is the government suppose to develop a country as big as Pakistan with expectation even bigger without an tax money and loans?Taxes through Indirect taxation are definitely not enough.

This government should also be asked why in last 4 years trade deficit is increasing every year and what happened to our exports and why we are still taking huge loans every few months while remittances increased every year and touched an all time high 19 billion dollar last year. Our oil import bill decreased and saved us billions of dollar every year. You can't just blame taxes for all our economy problems

 

[Mamoon]

My father worked for the FBR before his retirement in 2013. I know a thing or two about the tax evasion in Pakistan, and it is the single biggest reason for the lack of development. More so than the corruption of the politicians.

The people are as corrupt as the politicians, if not more, yet they complain about the lack of development and refuse to pay taxes because the government will put a portion of their taxes in their pockets.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Brilliant posts by Moiza and Zahid87. Thanks for saving me the pain of spelling it out.

Hypocrites have been exposed in this thread. The excuse that we don't pay taxes because the govt. is corrupt is so ridiculous it's not even laughable.

Who is responsible for levying taxes in Pakistan? Are they paid on a voluntary basis?

 

[Varun]

Why should a person pay taxes if he knows the leaders sitting on top are corrupt and his money is going in their pockets and the elite class isn't paying taxes? You know what there are just too many indirect taxes that govt is getting on every item we buy sell from a mobile card to a bottle of shampoo and medicine and drinks and almost every item that a lower and middle class person use regularly. In Pakistan only air is tax free

I'm curious to know how you are avoiding direct taxes? Is your employer not deducting any TDS in your salary if you are employed? Or are you requesting a refund from Pakistan's Income Tax department with iffy documents?

 

[Mamoon]

Who is responsible for levying taxes in Pakistan? Are they paid on a voluntary basis?

Federal Board of Revenue. A dysfunctional organization with a lot of corrupt folks who themselves don't pay taxes, but they count as people too so I include them in the list of hypocrites as well.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm curious to know how you are avoiding direct taxes? Is your employer not deducting any TDS in your salary if you are employed? Or are you requesting a refund from Pakistan's Income Tax department with iffy documents?

That's the number one method of evading taxes. Strike a deal with an FBR official, give him a % of your revenue and off you go.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Federal Board of Revenue. A dysfunctional organization with a lot of corrupt folks who themselves don't pay taxes, but they count as people too so I include them in the list of hypocrites as well.

But it's specifically their job to ensure tax is paid, and they are govt representatives I take it?

 

[Mamoon]

But it's specifically their job to ensure tax is paid, and they are govt representatives I take it?

Yes, which means that the ones among them who don't pay taxes are the biggest hypocrites because they have been appointed by the government to collect taxes.

 

[Mian]

But it's specifically their job to ensure tax is paid, and they are govt representatives I take it?

In recent hearing of panama case head of fbr was taken to cleaners by Supreme Court judges

 

[Mian]

Yes, which means that the ones among them who don't pay taxes are the biggest hypocrites because they have been appointed by the government to collect taxes.

And government isn't responsible to appoint clean people there and make sure they are doing their job properly?

 

[Moiza]

I'm curious to know how you are avoiding direct taxes? Is your employer not deducting any TDS in your salary if you are employed? Or are you requesting a refund from Pakistan's Income Tax department with iffy documents?

Employee are most taken care of through TDS. The very huge companies are also taken care of by the authorities. The main area of problem are the small to big business who still earn in million but find ways to escape taxation. The most favorite is method to not use banking channels in the first place, the government took some steps against this but they ended up making their own currency. If the FBR catches you somehow then you can easily bribe the officers. The officers in FBR have lists of people who give them bribes and these lists are auctioned when an officer is moved from his position for any reason. Sad state of affairs.

Its funny how Pakistanis blame Sharifs for everything.

 

[Mamoon]

And government isn't responsible to appoint clean people there and make sure they are doing their job properly?

Where do these clean people come from? They don't grow on trees, they are not sold in Tesco. They are one of us, and we are corrupt. We don't pay our taxes and neither do those who are appointed to collect taxes. I'm not saying everyone is corrupt, but the minority cannot make a difference.

Given how high the rate of tax evasion is in Pakistan, the government has no choice but to obtain loans. It's the only other source of capital.

 

[Mian]

Where do these clean people come from? They don't grow on trees, they are not sold in Tesco. They are one of us, and we are corrupt. We don't pay our taxes and neither do those who are appointed to collect taxes. I'm not saying everyone is corrupt, but the minority cannot make a difference.

Given how high the rate of tax evasion is in Pakistan, the government has no choice but to obtain loans. It's the only other source of capital.

Aliens work in motorway police? You can't remove corruption 100% but you can always decrease it if the person sitting on top is clean he will never be afraid of taking action against corrupts. Appoint people on merit and punish them if they do illegal things instead of giving them deals like NAB. Tell me the last time noora appointed head of a govt institution on merit and outside hos favts?

 

[Garuda]

Every engine is less than 100% efficient. So as every govt. There will be leakage.

But that doesn't justify not paying tax.

You can protest against corruption, change the govt. in next election, make your own political party etc etc to minimise the corruption. But not paying tax and complaining is just stupid.

 

[Syed1]

My father worked for the FBR before his retirement in 2013. I know a thing or two about the tax evasion in Pakistan, and it is the single biggest reason for the lack of development. More so than the corruption of the politicians.

The people are as corrupt as the politicians, if not more, yet they complain about the lack of development and refuse to pay taxes because the government will put a portion of their taxes in their pockets.

The biggest tax evaders are the corrupt politicians themselves.


If a Prime Minister wasn't a thief himself he would reform the FBR so that not even a penny of tax gets evaded. However, the same PM and his buddies pay no heed to the tax evasion since they directly benefit from it.

 

[Syed1]

Every engine is less than 100% efficient. So as every govt. There will be leakage.

But that doesn't justify not paying tax.

You can protest against corruption, change the govt. in next election, make your own political party etc etc to minimise the corruption. But not paying tax and complaining is just stupid.

It's not like I wake up one day and say I won't go to the FBR office and pay my tax. There are systematic methods of tax evasion that have been developed by the politicians and rulers themselves to directly benefit them.

Let me give you an example. In Pakistan if you are a software house that exports software then you are required to pay very minimal amount of tax. However, if you are a call center for a foreign company then the same tax break isn't available. So alot of call center owners list themselves as software houses and show the revenue as export income.

Now people will always try to cheat the system. It happens in first world Canada as well. However, the rulers here have developed a fool proof and water-tight system that such occurrences are minimal. That is not the case in Pakistan because each act of tax evasion directly benefits our rulers in some shape or form.

 

[Mian]

The biggest tax evaders are the corrupt politicians themselves.


If a Prime Minister wasn't a thief himself he would reform the FBR so that not even a penny of tax gets evaded. However, the same PM and his buddies pay no heed to the tax evasion since they directly benefit from it.

These guys use same typical excuse but the awaam is corrupt.

 

[Syed1]

Lol three times Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif cannot reform one single institution and this nincompoop will make Pakistan Asian Tiger? Give me a break.


I long for the day Nawaz Sharif is put behind bars for the rest of his miserable, meaningless life.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's not like I wake up one day and say I won't go to the FBR office and pay my tax. There are systematic methods of tax evasion that have been developed by the politicians and rulers themselves to directly benefit them.

Let me give you an example. In Pakistan if you are a software house that exports software then you are required to pay very minimal amount of tax. However, if you are a call center for a foreign company then the same tax break isn't available. So alot of call center owners list themselves as software houses and show the revenue as export income.

Now people will always try to cheat the system. It happens in first world Canada as well. However, the rulers here have developed a fool proof and water-tight system that such occurrences are minimal. That is not the case in Pakistan because each act of tax evasion directly benefits our rulers in some shape or form.

I have said this in the other thread bumped by DW44 for as well, but the reality is, that thread was bumped more to have a go at Pakistan's 'ordinary people' and their Islamic idols rather than look at how the system was getting played in the first place.

Anyone without an ideological axe to grind would just ask that whoever the govt is, their duty is to collect tax from EVERYBODY who is due to pay it. That is what the govt is there for.

 

[IMMY69]

Government taking loans due to tax evasion is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard.

Blame the companies, the people but never blame the government or the system that allows tax evasion...
A system that actually allows the politicians to fill their own boots.

Thank god there are only a few people using this line of argument otherwise there literally is no future other then the elite getting richer and the country going further down the drain.

 

[Garuda]

It's not like I wake up one day and say I won't go to the FBR office and pay my tax. There are systematic methods of tax evasion that have been developed by the politicians and rulers themselves to directly benefit them.

Let me give you an example. In Pakistan if you are a software house that exports software then you are required to pay very minimal amount of tax. However, if you are a call center for a foreign company then the same tax break isn't available. So alot of call center owners list themselves as software houses and show the revenue as export income.

Now people will always try to cheat the system. It happens in first world Canada as well. However, the rulers here have developed a fool proof and water-tight system that such occurrences are minimal. That is not the case in Pakistan because each act of tax evasion directly benefits our rulers in some shape or form.

Bhai mere. You still didn't get the point.

If that happens then you fight for the change in system which will stop it happening. Going out of the system is not the solution.

When you get cold, you cure it. Don't cut your nose.

 

[Mamoon]

Aliens work in motorway police? You can't remove corruption 100% but you can always decrease it if the person sitting on top is clean he will never be afraid of taking action against corrupts. Appoint people on merit and punish them if they do illegal things instead of giving them deals like NAB. Tell me the last time noora appointed head of a govt institution on merit and outside hos favts?

Sir it is not a coincidence that Motorway Police is the least corrupt department in Pakistan. It is the least corrupt, but is also the most uncomplicated department as well. You cannot compare it to the FBR, which is the largest federal department in the country with multiple sub-divisions. Monitoring corruption in FBR and ensuring transparency is not comparable to doing the same with Motorway Police, which is not even 10% of the FBR in terms of structure and significance.

A clean person at the top cannot fix corruption. It is a systematic and cultural problem in Pakistan. Pakistan will not become corruption-free if Imran Khan becomes the PM, that is the delusion which we have to overcome. Also, do you think that Imran will not appoint head of institutions based on his personal preference? Why do you think people like Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sheikh Rasheed stand by him side by side? As well as the likes of Jahangir Tareen on whose private jets Imran zooms around the country? Do you think these people will not be appointed on high posts by Imran? What are their credentials and what have they done for the country in previous governments?

This is part of our culture and how our politics work. Nawaz, Zardari, Imran, Bilawal etc. does not matter. The only thing we can do is try to keep ourselves free of corruption. Corruption can be decreased if every person starts at home, i.e. with himself/herself. The reason why corruption doesn't decrease in Pakistan is because of the attitude that is on display in this thread.

The attitude that we won't pay taxes because the government is corrupt, but we will complain about the debt we are in. That debt would not be as humungous as it is now if we were paying our taxes. Where do you think the money for the development and other projects comes from? It's not as if the government hasn't done anything in the last 4 years, and its not as if they have taken loans to finance their personal projects. That money is being pumped into the country, not 100% but at least majority of it.

That is what the theory of Social Contract is about, which laid the foundation of economic and political theories in the 1700s and 1800s. For a society to function properly, the people have to delegate power to the government whose duty is to protect the rights of the people.

We the people are not fulfilling our own obligation (i.e. to pay taxes, in this context. Although, there are other elements as well but let's keep it simple for the sake of understanding.) but we complain about the government not fulfilling their obligations. It is not the other way around because the government is dependent on our taxes to serve us and fulfill its obligations. When we are not paying our taxes, we cannot complain that the government is taking loans to finance projects. These are the only two sources of capital, unless you are sitting on reserves of natural resources like the GCC countries and don't need to impose income tax.

We are violating the Social Contract by asking the government to fulfill its obligations first and if we have faith in them, only then will we pay our taxes. This is not how a government and an economy can function. We have to put our faith in the system for it to repay our faith. The system (government) is nothing but the reflection of the society; the reflection of the people and their values. Of course this is not our own problem, but if every person in Pakistan pays his/her due taxes, a lot of our problems will be resolved. However, as things stand, the rate of tax evasion is extremely high in Pakistan which shows how corrupt we are as people. If we are corrupt, what do we expect from the government? Corruption.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sir it is not a coincidence that Motorway Police is the least corrupt department in Pakistan. It is the least corrupt, but is also the most uncomplicated department as well. You cannot compare it to the FBR, which is the largest federal department in the country with multiple sub-divisions. Monitoring corruption in FBR and ensuring transparency is not comparable to doing the same with Motorway Police, which is not even 10% of the FBR in terms of structure and significance.

A clean person at the top cannot fix corruption. It is a systematic and cultural problem in Pakistan. Pakistan will not become corruption-free if Imran Khan becomes the PM, that is the delusion which we have to overcome. Also, do you think that Imran will not appoint head of institutions based on his personal preference? Why do you think people like Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sheikh Rasheed stand by him side by side? As well as the likes of Jahangir Tareen on whose private jets Imran zooms around the country? Do you think these people will not be appointed on high posts by Imran? What are their credentials and what have they done for the country in previous governments?

This is part of our culture and how our politics work. Nawaz, Zardari, Imran, Bilawal etc. does not matter. The only thing we can do is try to keep ourselves free of corruption. Corruption can be decreased if every person starts at home, i.e. with himself/herself. The reason why corruption doesn't decrease in Pakistan is because of the attitude that is on display in this thread.

The attitude that we won't pay taxes because the government is corrupt, but we will complain about the debt we are in. That debt would not be as humungous as it is now if we were paying our taxes. Where do you think the money for the development and other projects comes from? It's not as if the government hasn't done anything in the last 4 years, and its not as if they have taken loans to finance their personal projects. That money is being pumped into the country, not 100% but at least majority of it.

That is what the theory of Social Contract is about, which laid the foundation of economic and political theories in the 1700s and 1800s. For a society to function properly, the people have to delegate power to the government whose duty is to protect the rights of the people.

We the people are not fulfilling our own obligation (i.e. to pay taxes, in this context. Although, there are other elements as well but let's keep it simple for the sake of understanding.) but we complain about the government not fulfilling their obligations. It is not the other way around because the government is dependent on our taxes to serve us and fulfill its obligations. When we are not paying our taxes, we cannot complain that the government is taking loans to finance projects. These are the only two sources of capital, unless you are sitting on reserves of natural resources like the GCC countries and don't need to impose income tax.

We are violating the Social Contract by asking the government to fulfill its obligations first and if we have faith in them, only then will we pay our taxes. This is not how a government and an economy can function. We have to put our faith in the system for it to repay our faith. The system (government) is nothing but the reflection of the society; the reflection of the people and their values. Of course this is not our own problem, but if every person in Pakistan pays his/her due taxes, a lot of our problems will be resolved. However, as things stand, the rate of tax evasion is extremely high in Pakistan which shows how corrupt we are as people. If we are corrupt, what do we expect from the government? Corruption.

Thank God western countries don't work on the premise that every person has to clean in house first, only then can the govt be expected to levy taxes. It's like paying a window cleaner to clean windows then letting him off by saying well, we really should clean our own windows first only then can we expect the window cleaner to do his job.

 

[Mamoon]

The biggest tax evaders are the corrupt politicians themselves.


If a Prime Minister wasn't a thief himself he would reform the FBR so that not even a penny of tax gets evaded. However, the same PM and his buddies pay no heed to the tax evasion since they directly benefit from it.

This simpleton logic is where Imran Khan and his supporters go wrong. This is not child's play, and there is a reason why no one in Pakistan's history has been able to achieve what you are trying to suggest. It is not a piece cake like you are implying. We are a very complicated country, and the FBR is the most complicated institution in the country. Making it foolproof and ensuring the tax evasion drops to 0% is simply not possible. Please make Imran the PM and I will ask you after 5 years how efficient the FBR is.

As I said before, in the grand scheme of things, the personal corruption of the Head of State doesn't make a big difference when the corruption is cultural and systematic, with extremely deep roots that are simply not possible to eradicate, because their foundation lies with the people and its the people who are corrupt. As long we don't keep our noses clean at a personal level, as long as we don't ensure that we pay all our due taxes, this corruption will not go away. No government can force the people to change their ideology, and that is why revolution starts from the people.

 

[Mamoon]

Thank God western countries don't work on the premise that every person has to clean in house first, only then can the govt be expected to levy taxes. It's like paying a window cleaner to clean windows then letting him off by saying well, we really should clean our own windows first only then can we expect the window cleaner to do his job.

Actually, the Western countries do work on this premise especially Welfare States. The people try to minimize corruption (no place is corrupt free btw, it is all relative) at a personal level and that is why they are flourishing compared to a country like Pakistan. When people don't pay taxes, level of corruption goes up automatically and the government cannot function efficiently. Take the example of any prospering country in the West, make its tax evasion rate as high as Pakistan's, and watch it reach Pakistan's level over the course of a few decades only.

 

[IMMY69]

In every walk of life there is a trickle down affect.

A strong Government with strong institutions trickles down to every level of society.

The examples are set at the very top.

Tax Evasion would still exist, but to a far lesser extent, if the Government sets an example. By this I mean rotting out corruption at every level.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually, the Western countries do work on this premise especially Welfare States. The people try to minimize corruption (no place is corrupt free btw, it is all relative) at a personal level and that is why they are flourishing compared to a country like Pakistan. When people don't pay taxes, level of corruption goes up automatically and the government cannot function efficiently. Take the example of any prospering country in the West, make its tax evasion rate as high as Pakistan's, and watch it reach Pakistan's level over the course of a few decades only.

That's the point, tax evasion is far more difficult because the govt and civil service are watertight on this and no one hides behind the excuse that we get the govt we deserve so if they don't levy tax properly it's our fault.

Otherwise even the biggest global companies will try to play the system including Google and Amazon, but because there are checks in place they have to be really creative with their accounting.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Sir it is not a coincidence that Motorway Police is the least corrupt department in Pakistan. It is the least corrupt, but is also the most uncomplicated department as well. You cannot compare it to the FBR, which is the largest federal department in the country with multiple sub-divisions. Monitoring corruption in FBR and ensuring transparency is not comparable to doing the same with Motorway Police, which is not even 10% of the FBR in terms of structure and significance.

A clean person at the top cannot fix corruption. It is a systematic and cultural problem in Pakistan. Pakistan will not become corruption-free if Imran Khan becomes the PM, that is the delusion which we have to overcome. Also, do you think that Imran will not appoint head of institutions based on his personal preference? Why do you think people like Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sheikh Rasheed stand by him side by side? As well as the likes of Jahangir Tareen on whose private jets Imran zooms around the country? Do you think these people will not be appointed on high posts by Imran? What are their credentials and what have they done for the country in previous governments?

This is part of our culture and how our politics work. Nawaz, Zardari, Imran, Bilawal etc. does not matter. The only thing we can do is try to keep ourselves free of corruption. Corruption can be decreased if every person starts at home, i.e. with himself/herself. The reason why corruption doesn't decrease in Pakistan is because of the attitude that is on display in this thread.

The attitude that we won't pay taxes because the government is corrupt, but we will complain about the debt we are in. That debt would not be as humungous as it is now if we were paying our taxes. Where do you think the money for the development and other projects comes from? It's not as if the government hasn't done anything in the last 4 years, and its not as if they have taken loans to finance their personal projects. That money is being pumped into the country, not 100% but at least majority of it.

That is what the theory of Social Contract is about, which laid the foundation of economic and political theories in the 1700s and 1800s. For a society to function properly, the people have to delegate power to the government whose duty is to protect the rights of the people.

We the people are not fulfilling our own obligation (i.e. to pay taxes, in this context. Although, there are other elements as well but let's keep it simple for the sake of understanding.) but we complain about the government not fulfilling their obligations. It is not the other way around because the government is dependent on our taxes to serve us and fulfill its obligations. When we are not paying our taxes, we cannot complain that the government is taking loans to finance projects. These are the only two sources of capital, unless you are sitting on reserves of natural resources like the GCC countries and don't need to impose income tax.

We are violating the Social Contract by asking the government to fulfill its obligations first and if we have faith in them, only then will we pay our taxes. This is not how a government and an economy can function. We have to put our faith in the system for it to repay our faith. The system (government) is nothing but the reflection of the society; the reflection of the people and their values. Of course this is not our own problem, but if every person in Pakistan pays his/her due taxes, a lot of our problems will be resolved. However, as things stand, the rate of tax evasion is extremely high in Pakistan which shows how corrupt we are as people. If we are corrupt, what do we expect from the government? Corruption.

You have put a lot of effort in typing this, so good on you but I have to seriously disagree here. Firstly, let's get one thing straight not you, not me and probably not any one in the world will pay taxes voluntarily. It's the government's job to collect taxes end off and that blame cannot be shifted from the government to the public. Secondly, income tax avoidance doesn't come from the masses(Poor and middle class) as their income is generally bellow taxable level or their tax is deducted at source from their salary. These people actually end up paying more taxes than their capacity because of high indirect taxes like GST.

Income and wealth tax avoiders are generally in the upper and elite class. These people use their power and influence to avoid taxes and get away with it by having politicians in their pockets and paying people off. In conclusion, the problem can only be solved from the top not the bottom.

 

[Syed1]

That's the point, tax evasion is far more difficult because the govt and civil service are watertight on this and no one hides behind the excuse that we get the govt we deserve so if they don't levy tax properly it's our fault.

Otherwise even the biggest global companies will try to play the system including Google and Amazon, but because there are checks in place they have to be really creative with their accounting.

For example, only last week there was a news that Samsung's vice chairman got arrested in Korea for corruption charges.


I don't expect Nawaz supporters to be very fluent in anti-corruption news.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Can we have any of the resident Nooras like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] or [MENTION=138894]Flat_Track_Bully[/MENTION] shed some light on this? A meaningless tweet or statement on a sporting event garners two, three pages worth of posts by these lot, but the Noora government can go on destroying the country with debt burden and not a peep from these people.

I am not a Noora. Far from it. If I had it my way I would choose Asad Umar as PM. Clean competent businessman.

I find Imran's brand of politics amateurish, he isn't consistent and he definitely has no clue how to drive investment.

Look Pakistan needs to invest in its infrastructure, this costs money. Debts will be accrued but long benefit outweighs all of this.

Its their that or go with Imran's strategy of low overheads and a population stuck in the low income low spending trap and Pakistan will be stuck as a poor country for the next 50 years.

I think'll I'll go with the prosperous Pakistan with debt than debt free poor Pakistan.

 

[WebGuru]

I am not a Noora. Far from it. If I had it my way I would choose Asad Umar as PM. Clean competent businessman.

I find Imran's brand of politics amateurish, he isn't consistent and he definitely has no clue how to drive investment.

Look Pakistan needs to invest in its infrastructure, this costs money. Debts will be accrued but long benefit outweighs all of this.

Its their that or go with Imran's strategy of low overheads and a population stuck in the low income low spending trap and Pakistan will be stuck as a poor country for the next 50 years.

I think'll I'll go with the prosperous Pakistan with debt than debt free poor Pakistan.

Asad Umar is probably going to be the finance minister if a miracle happen and PTI comes in power.