Pakistani fans need to be patient and give time to youngsters with potential

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Really Pak fans should be more patient.
One bad match and Shadab is found out.
Few slow innings (without noticing the context) and Babar should be dropped.

If you see potential in some player then give him some time.

I will give an example:
India vs Pakistan champions trophy 2009:

India chasing 302 against Pak, Young Virat Kohli who hardly played 20 matches at that time came to the crease. On 16 he played a poor shot against Afridi and got out. On the other side Rahul Dravid played a knock of 76. But guess what, Indians didint become impatient and didnt drop Kohli from the side instead dropped Dravid as he was getting old and they thought it is better to invest in a young player like Kohli.
And we see the result of that investment now looking at Kohli.

So please give the youngus some time to develop. They will not set the world on fire from the start.
Personally, I see world class potential in 3 Pak players now: Babar, Haris and Shadab, also Sarfraz as captain. So I will give them time and have belief that they will come good.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Because they think there are world beaters in our domestic circuit that are not being given a chance. Kamran Akmal was Man of the Tournament in PSL (correct me if I'm wrong), where he out-performed all of these youngsters by a margin. Give him a few games atleast before calling for his head.

Same goes for Shehzad. Not a great fan of either, but its highly unfair how the knives are out even before they walk out on the field.

 

[WC-Passion]

Because they think there are world beaters in our domestic circuit that are not being given a chance. Kamran Akmal was Man of the Tournament in PSL (correct me if I'm wrong), where he out-performed all of these youngsters by a margin. Give him a few games atleast before calling for his head.

Same goes for Shehzad. Not a great fan of either, but its highly unfair how the knives are out even before they walk out on the field.

Yeah but when you've played in the domestic circuit for 10+ years you'd expect to dominate it. You can't expect the same from young players, that's why domestic form doesn't always translate into international form for these old TTF's.

 

[asfandyar]

The impatience with regards to players making their umpteenth comeback and still proving to be mediocre is justified, but the hatred for newcomers who have performed in the domestics but don't fit your imaginary mold is unwarranted and downright absurd.

 

[Pete Rose]

You should call the game and the player as you see it. It's not immutable like religion

 

[Citizen4]

both Indian and Pakistani fans are very emotional, more than any other set of fans in my opinion.
Pakistani fans have become pessimists though, they criticise players after 1 bad or mediocre game, and don't appreciate them when they're doing alright, as soon as some mistakes happen, they jump on the bandwagon and criticise him to death. Basically like media works, it had a huge impact on the fan base.

 

[phoenix363]

Because they think there are world beaters in our domestic circuit that are not being given a chance. Kamran Akmal was Man of the Tournament in PSL (correct me if I'm wrong), where he out-performed all of these youngsters by a margin. Give him a few games atleast before calling for his head.

Same goes for Shehzad. Not a great fan of either, but its highly unfair how the knives are out even before they walk out on the field.

Very few youngsters were given a chance. The two newest batsmen in Fakhar and Talat did well with the opportunities they got. Kamran might have been the best player, but he only really performed in a few innings after being given the whole tournament in the top order.

And yeah, he was given chances. What did he do in the series...? Maintain his low 20s average like he has for hundreds of games. But ofcourse his fans will say, what did everyone else do etc, a completely invalid point to judge a player who is making an umpteenth comeback to the side.

 

[aloo paratha]

Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months

Bro he is young. He will learn. Give him time

 

[the Great Khan]

Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months

I'm sorry but you want to drop babar?? Really??

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months

Replace him with Hafeez so he can get his magestic 32 score?

 

[PakLFC]

Fan's don't have any other choice other then to be patient. What frustrates us is when the youngsters fail to deliver then we have to wait for the next generation. The same happens again by producing poor fielders, no fast bowlers and average batsmen. I always feel we are still light years behind other sides in the form of the Cricket we play and fitness of our players. Pak just doesn't produce the exciting players historically associated with us.

 

[aloo paratha]

Replace him with Hafeez so he can get his magestic 32 score?

"Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months"

 

[aloo paratha]

I'm sorry but you want to drop babar?? Really??

......... Read what I said again

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Yes,we need to be patient and allow these youngsters to develop as they are our future and they are surely better then old TTFs.

 

[JaDed]

One needs to visit the "Shadab being gifted wickets" thread to know what the op is talking about. But tbh there are lot of posters here so no opinion will be unanimous.

 

[emranabbas]

Been patient since world cup semi finals 2011

 

[NauV]

"Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months"

Strike rate of 90 at an average of 53 in 23 ODI matches

Strike rate of 114 at an average of 50 in 8 T20 matches . .

Are you kidding me?!! what other batsman in your team is that consistent at that strike rate?! at least study the game before throwing blatantly false comments . .

We don't need afridis! we need a couple of players who are consistent . . over 40 average at over 85 strike rate . .

Make up of a strong team is not to have afridis in the team . . it is to have consistent batsman who can score at a 100 strike rate without much risk!

Not suggesting that Babar has a great power game and that he shouldnt look to improve . .

but those numbers I wrote above . . it is an absolute travesty that people are still finding reasons to criticize him . .

 

[BA56]

Fans are impatient and that is fine, most fans are fickle. But the problem is when the people running the cricket are impatient and do moronic things you expect from fans. Time and again talented cricketers have been wasted and time and against good teams have been destroyed because of the utter stupidity of the world that Pakistan cricket lives in.

Technically its a government department and it's run as such with 'company men' being preferred to actual talent and the battle for control and power is more important than the product on the field that we fret over. Modern cricket should be about good scouting, good coaching and good management. The better teams have great scouting, great coaching and great management. Pakistan cricket runs on archaic systems. It's the chairmans scout, the chairmans coach and the chairmans management. It doesn't matter who the best man for the job is in terms of what he can actual do. The best man for the job always comes from the inner circle of the man running the show.

When you start with a handicap like that, it flows down on every level and thing that takes place within. The u19 coaches, selectors etc and then when you have to select a person coming through on his own merit that doesn't belong to the inner circle and cannot be "trusted", the leash is shortened and they go looking for excuses and every failure is magnified and every flaw is repeated again and again and not remedied. While trusted insiders failures and lack of fitness are tolerated and every success is magnified and they are given multiple chances to return to the team even on the basis of a single performance because they are insiders, company men as they say.

 

[in_cutter]

Problem with fans is over hyping. When the same hyped youngsters fail in a match or two...they want them dropped immediately.

 

[dildildalwalla]

Really Pak fans should be more patient.
One bad match and Shadab is found out.
Few slow innings (without noticing the context) and Babar should be dropped.

If you see potential in some player then give him some time.

I will give an example:
India vs Pakistan champions trophy 2009:

India chasing 302 against Pak, Young Virat Kohli who hardly played 20 matches at that time came to the crease. On 16 he played a poor shot against Afridi and got out. On the other side Rahul Dravid played a knock of 76. But guess what, Indians didint become impatient and didnt drop Kohli from the side instead dropped Dravid as he was getting old and they thought it is better to invest in a young player like Kohli.
And we see the result of that investment now looking at Kohli.

So please give the youngus some time to develop. They will not set the world on fire from the start.
Personally, I see world class potential in 3 Pak players now: Babar, Haris and Shadab, also Sarfraz as captain. So I will give them time and have belief that they will come good.

Maybe you don't watch much Indian sports news or know many Indians but they absolutely slaughtered kOhli for years, especially in the test arena where he underperformed.

Not everything is Pakistan and India. If Pakistan fans want to improve and they should, well they need to look at the English fans, 9/10 times the best fans in the game.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Maybe you don't watch much Indian sports news or know many Indians but they absolutely slaughtered kOhli for years, especially in the test arena where he underperformed.

Not everything is Pakistan and India. If Pakistan fans want to improve and they should, well they need to look at the English fans, 9/10 times the best fans in the game.

that was just an example.

 

[the Great Khan]

......... Read what I said again

ok so your saying Babar should play in a different way? Sorry but I'm confused..do you want him in the team? I take it thats a yes but you want him to hit more chakaay and choakay? Am i right?

personally i think he is doing just fine and is also still learning so we should be patient with him.

 

[aloo paratha]

Strike rate of 90 at an average of 53 in 23 ODI matches

Strike rate of 114 at an average of 50 in 8 T20 matches . .

Are you kidding me?!! what other batsman in your team is that consistent at that strike rate?! at least study the game before throwing blatantly false comments . .

We don't need afridis! we need a couple of players who are consistent . . over 40 average at over 85 strike rate . .

Make up of a strong team is not to have afridis in the team . . it is to have consistent batsman who can score at a 100 strike rate without much risk!

Not suggesting that Babar has a great power game and that he shouldnt look to improve . .

but those numbers I wrote above . . it is an absolute travesty that people are still finding reasons to criticize him . .

You should see his SR before he reaches 50.

Instead of reading stats maybe you should actually watch the games...

 

[aloo paratha]

ok so your saying Babar should play in a different way? Sorry but I'm confused..do you want him in the team? I take it thats a yes but you want him to hit more chakaay and choakay? Am i right?

personally i think he is doing just fine and is also still learning so we should be patient with him.

Yes, want him to play n a different way. Can't play 2 or 3 runs over run a ball till he's40 runs into his innings, and for ODIs, don't want him bringing up fiftiees close to 70 balls into his innings.

 

[Square Drive]

Absolutely.

Our golden era is on the horizon (will officially start once Misbah retires). We will become top a top 6 team in ODIs very soon and in 2-3 years, we will be a top 4 team in all 3 formats.

Great time to be a Pakistan fan.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Absolutely.

Our golden era is on the horizon (will officially start once Misbah retires). We will become top a top 6 team in ODIs very soon and in 2-3 years, we will be a top 4 team in all 3 formats.

Great time to be a Pakistan fan.

Yeah reaching top 4 should be the first goal. Especially in odis. Aus, Ind, SA, NZ, Eng. these 5 teams are tough to beat.
Hope we have a successful champions trophy but looks difficult due to too many ttfs.

 

[Hasan123]

Good thread. Youngsters are the way forward. Must be patient with them. Hope we can find 1/2 power hitters now.

 

[NauV]

You should see his SR before he reaches 50.

Instead of reading stats maybe you should actually watch the games...

Sir, trust me i have watched every game . .

Stats are facts so you have to look into them . .

So is your logic, get someone in who can be at a 90 strike . .rate and average 20 . . because Babar Azam is the best in the country . . and if you can't be happy with him, then there's not much else in Pakistan that will impress you unfortunately . .

It's mind boggling that you or anyone can criticize someone who will give you 50 runs on average at a 90 strike rate . . yes, if he averaged 35 at a 70 or 75 strike rate, I would take your point!

 

[Bilal7]

This is exactly why these fans are sitting behind keyboards and people like Inzamam are the ones calling the shots.

 

[Bilal7]

You should see his SR before he reaches 50.

Instead of reading stats maybe you should actually watch the games...

Very few batsmen start at a high SR and go on to make big scores. Babar is our best player across formats and if you know anything about the game, he should be the last one to be criticized.

 

[Pete Rose]

Very few batsmen start at a high SR and go on to make big scores. Babar is our best player across formats and if you know anything about the game, he should be the last one to be criticized.

Sorry across which formats is he our best player? Our best player in odis batting in recent times was sharjeel (you may chose to compare averages to disagree, and that's fine)
In T20, once this honeymoon of playing the West Indies ends, we'll know more

 

[khurram39]

Totally agreed.

 

[Bilal7]

Sorry across which formats is he our best player? Our best player in odis batting in recent times was sharjeel (you may chose to compare averages to disagree, and that's fine)
In T20, once this honeymoon of playing the West Indies ends, we'll know more

Sharjeel was a decent player but a major FTB and clearly nowhere near Babar. And yes, I will choose to compare them by their stats rather than the number of sixes they smash per innings. In T20s, he's our best batsman quite easily and in tests, he'll be #1 very soon as well.

Not debating what will happen in the future.

 

[Hamza_]

Sorry across which formats is he our best player? Our best player in odis batting in recent times was sharjeel (you may chose to compare averages to disagree, and that's fine)
In T20, once this honeymoon of playing the West Indies ends, we'll know more

Agreed. Babar looks like impact less batsman right now, Somewhat like chanderpaul or Azhar Ali.

 

[Pete Rose]

Sharjeel was a decent player but a major FTB and clearly nowhere near Babar. And yes, I will choose to compare them by their stats rather than the number of sixes they smash per innings. In T20s, he's our best batsman quite easily and in tests, he'll be #1 very soon as well.

Not debating what will happen in the future.

Indeed sharjeel was an FTB reeling three successive half centuries at a strike over 100 in Australia. Babar Azam of course played a chanderpal type innings of 100 in a game where Australia scored 360. But hey at least get got a century under a strike rate of 100

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Sharjeel was a decent player but a major FTB and clearly nowhere near Babar. And yes, I will choose to compare them by their stats rather than the number of sixes they smash per innings. In T20s, he's our best batsman quite easily and in tests, he'll be #1 very soon as well.

Not debating what will happen in the future.

i know its helps to cope with his absense by downplaying him, but honestly Sharjeel was more important to limited overs teams than Babar

 

[Syed1]

I'm in favour of inducting youngsters in the side but you can't just keep chopping and changing after a couple of matches. Someone like Fakhar Zaman may not have the best technique but he has been ruling the roost in domestics. If you don't select him then you are showing that you do not have enough faith in your own system. Now that he has been selected he needs to be thoroughly vetted before being discarded.

I don't buy this logic that there are Laras and Tendulkars roaming around in domestics and it is the shoddy selection policies that are keeping them back. If they were so good they would have banged on the door and scored at every opportunity possible a la Fakhar.

At the moment the PSL is our best bet of unearthing fresh talent, it has already given us Hasan, Shadab and Asghar. We need more teams to play young batsmen and that too higher up the order so that they get exposure and show what they are made up off. This can only happen if folks like Hafeez and Misbah stop hogging a youngsters spot.

 

[Syed1]

i know its helps to cope with his absense by downplaying him, but honestly Sharjeel was more important to limited overs teams than Babar

Is that opinion based on the last series in Australia?

Because before that Sharjeel was renowned for one blistering fifty after every four or five failures. Nothing much to write home about.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Is that opinion based on the last series in Australia?

Because before that Sharjeel was renowned for one blistering fifty after every four or five failures. Nothing much to write home about.

yeah, that one blistering 50 in 4 was miraculous given what we have to endure now. With Sharjeel you knew he will either do well or get out of the way quickly, not endure us to Chinese water torture. Plus his gradual improvement was undeniable. He was upa gainst an attack that had 3 genuine quicks all of whom swung the ball.

Now I agree there is no point in thinking of what could have been, but at the same time we shouldn't underplay the hole he has left, because if we do that we will never come close to filling it up again

 

[Bilal7]

Indeed sharjeel was an FTB reeling three successive half centuries at a strike over 100 in Australia. Babar Azam of course played a chanderpal type innings of 100 in a game where Australia scored 360. But hey at least get got a century under a strike rate of 100

100 over a pretty 50 any day. Thanks for proving my point. Let's not even get into how Australia was one of the two places in the world where FTBs like Sharjeel thrive, the other being a country he can't play in.

i know its helps to cope with his absense by downplaying him, but honestly Sharjeel was more important to limited overs teams than Babar

Are you kidding me? He was a hack like the many hacks we have had before him. Hacks are easily replaceable especially in Pakistan. What isn't replaceble is a batsman who averages 50+ in ODIs at an excellent SR.

People like you really shouldn't be criticizing guys like Imran Nazir, Afridi, Kamran, Awais Zia, etc who would all get that one 40-50 score at a great SR and then go missing.

 

[Pete Rose]

100 over a pretty 50 any day. Thanks for proving my point. Let's not even get into how Australia was one of the two places in the world where FTBs like Sharjeel thrive, the other being a country he can't play in.



Are you kidding me? He was a hack like the many hacks we have had before him. Hacks are easily replaceable especially in Pakistan. What isn't replaceble is a batsman who averages 50+ in ODIs at an excellent SR.

People like you really shouldn't be criticizing guys like Imran Nazir, Afridi, Kamran, Awais Zia, etc who would all get that one 40-50 score at a great SR and then go missing.

Sharjeel set up the chase every game he played, babar but comparison just hung around to get to his century. Even when Sharjeel hit 70 off 40, the game was within Pakistan's reach, babar by comparison..meh..not so much. Which is not to say he is not better than Malik and Sarfaraz, and Shehzad and Hafeez. He is better than them because he has the technique to score at similar runrates but last out longer.

You are really not following the game it seems. Its the kind of affliction that Indian fans from the 90's suffered. As long as their batsmen get a century, who cares if its in a losing cause.

 

[Pete Rose]

yeah, that one blistering 50 in 4 was miraculous given what we have to endure now. With Sharjeel you knew he will either do well or get out of the way quickly, not endure us to Chinese water torture. Plus his gradual improvement was undeniable. He was upa gainst an attack that had 3 genuine quicks all of whom swung the ball.

Now I agree there is no point in thinking of what could have been, but at the same time we shouldn't underplay the hole he has left, because if we do that we will never come close to filling it up again

I can say this with supreme confidence, that on current form I would feel more comfortable with Sharjeel in the team than Babar. Blasphemy, I know.

 

[Pete Rose]

I'm in favour of inducting youngsters in the side but you can't just keep chopping and changing after a couple of matches. Someone like Fakhar Zaman may not have the best technique but he has been ruling the roost in domestics. If you don't select him then you are showing that you do not have enough faith in your own system. Now that he has been selected he needs to be thoroughly vetted before being discarded.

I don't buy this logic that there are Laras and Tendulkars roaming around in domestics and it is the shoddy selection policies that are keeping them back. If they were so good they would have banged on the door and scored at every opportunity possible a la Fakhar.

At the moment the PSL is our best bet of unearthing fresh talent, it has already given us Hasan, Shadab and Asghar. We need more teams to play young batsmen and that too higher up the order so that they get exposure and show what they are made up off. This can only happen if folks like Hafeez and Misbah stop hogging a youngsters spot.

Yes, but what good is to bring him to play and ask him to bat at number 6 whereas all the culprits who lose us the match regularly are in the top 4.

 

[AZ_cricket_fan]

Pakistan cricket team is undergoing a major evolution and yes patience needs to be shown for all formats. Test team looks strongest but once Misbah and Younis Khan retire then same applies there too.

I think the issue is not with the young guns but rather the seniors like Hafeez for example who keeps getting selected despite string of low scores and poor domestic performances. Patience should be thinner with them as they have been around long enough to work out their game if they want to.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Not saying Babar should be dropped but it's not "a few slow innings" that is literally how he's played in his LOI career in the past 3 months

He is like the 90s Sachin now. If he gets out there is nobody to stay there except Sarfraz and score 85+ SR. most probably a collapse coming if he gets out.

I don't take Misbah as example because he never turned up to bat at 3 and also will bat at 50+ SR and finish the inns at 70 SR.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I have seen Babar anchoring the innings and finish matches in domestic t20s.

5 off 10, 15 off 15, 30 off 25, 50 off 40 and 70 off 50 kind of innings which is fine i guess.

 

[aloo paratha]

Very few batsmen start at a high SR and go on to make big scores. Babar is our best player across formats and if you know anything about the game, he should be the last one to be criticized.

ok but doesn't mean he should be playing with SR in the high 60s to low 70s FORTY balls into his innings. Even that is a good example, one time I was watching when we played Aus, had scored 21 runs off 40 balls, FORTY! But we can turn a blind eye to him but if Shoaib Malik or Sarfraz is to do it OMG drop them!!!

 

[aloo paratha]

Sir, trust me i have watched every game . .

Stats are facts so you have to look into them . .

So is your logic, get someone in who can be at a 90 strike . .rate and average 20 . . because Babar Azam is the best in the country . . and if you can't be happy with him, then there's not much else in Pakistan that will impress you unfortunately . .

It's mind boggling that you or anyone can criticize someone who will give you 50 runs on average at a 90 strike rate . . yes, if he averaged 35 at a 70 or 75 strike rate, I would take your point!

Sometimes stats don't show the full picture. 2) I never said drop him so why are you swinging the argument?? 3) It's ,mind boggling how you and all these others can turn a blind eye to the glaring problem Babar has.

 

[Rayyman]

Sometimes stats don't show the full picture. 2) I never said drop him so why are you swinging the argument?? 3) It's ,mind boggling how you and all these others can turn a blind eye to the glaring problem Babar has.

I am pretty sure everybody knows that Babar is slow.

 

[aloo paratha]

I am pretty sure everybody knows that Babar is slow.

No they don't man and that's the problem.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-when-Babar-Azam-does-it-Who-cares&highlight=

^^^Flashback 3 months ^^^

 

[Bilal7]

ok but doesn't mean he should be playing with SR in the high 60s to low 70s FORTY balls into his innings. Even that is a good example, one time I was watching when we played Aus, had scored 21 runs off 40 balls, FORTY! But we can turn a blind eye to him but if Shoaib Malik or Sarfraz is to do it OMG drop them!!!

Yes, because Shoaib Malik and Sarfaraz don't average 50+ with the bat or have a SR around 90. Understand?

 

[Ellipsism]

Yes it's high time we drop tools like Junaid, Imad (ODI's), Kamran and Shehzad and pick some emerging talent and persistent with them.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Yes, because Shoaib Malik and Sarfaraz don't average 50+ with the bat or have a SR around 90. Understand?

I think [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] what people are trying to portray is that the schematics of constructing a batting innings requires batters to maintain a healthy SR all throughout their innings since that would necessarily mean less pressure on the team and the batting partner.

The criticism on Babar is that it wouldn't amount to much (in the end i.e.) if all throughout his innings he hovers his SR to 60-70 and then at the final end of the stretch manages to reach 90 odd by hitting a few boundaries. That would show well on his stats but the damage it would do to the team's cause and to his batting partner cannot be shown in statistics.

In theory it can be showed but that would require someone to delve deep into game statistics and extract ball by ball ANALYSIS on how these things impacted a particular game. This is what the gist of the argument is I guess (or so I think it is).....

Anyways leaving aside Babar's criticism I think there is a lot he can improve on his game and bettering his SR can be seen as a valid starting point. The boy's just 22, he's got loads of time tbh.

 

[AZ_cricket_fan]

I think [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] what people are trying to portray is that the schematics of constructing a batting innings requires batters to maintain a healthy SR all throughout their innings since that would necessarily mean less pressure on the team and the batting partner.

The criticism on Babar is that it wouldn't amount to much (in the end i.e.) if all throughout his innings he hovers his SR to 60-70 and then at the final end of the stretch manages to reach 90 odd by hitting a few boundaries. That would show well on his stats but the damage it would do to the team's cause and to his batting partner cannot be shown in statistics.

In theory it can be showed but that would require someone to delve deep into game statistics and extract ball by ball ANALYSIS on how these things impacted a particular game. This is what the gist of the argument is I guess (or so I think it is).....

Anyways leaving aside Babar's criticism I think there is a lot he can improve on his game and bettering his SR can be seen as a valid starting point. The boy's just 22, he's got loads of time tbh.

Spot on! Babar will ensure Pakistan have some runs on the board lol. And yes his SR has to improve with time and that should come with experience.