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Pakistani Hindus reject India’s offer for citizenship

Abdullah719

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Pakistan’s minority Hindu community has rejected India’s offer to grant them citizenship under a new law.

Citing the harassment of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan, the Indian parliament recently amended its citizenship law, offering citizenship rights to Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Parsi and Jain communities migrating from these countries.

The law, however, excluded Muslims, triggering mass protests across the country.
“Pakistan’s Hindu community unanimously rejects this bill, which is tantamount to dividing India on communal lines,” Raja Asar Manglani, patron of the Pakistan Hindu Council, told Anadolu Agency.

“This is a unanimous message from Pakistan’s entire Hindu community to Indian Prime Minister [Narendra] Modi. A true Hindu will never support this legislation,” he said.

He added that the law has violated India’s own constitution.

Anwar Lal Dean, a Christian member of the Pakistani parliament’s upper house or Senate, also said the law is meant to pitch religious communities against each other.

“This is a clear violation of fundamental human rights. We categorically reject it,” said Dean, a leader of the opposition Pakistan People’s Party.

“Through such unjust and uncalled steps, the Modi government wants to pitch religious communities against each other,” he said, citing scrapping of Jammu and Kashmir’s longstanding special rights law, Indian Supreme Court’s judgment on Babri Mosque, and growing violence against minorities in India.

Pakistan’s tiny Sikh community has also denounced the controversial law.

“Not only Pakistani Sikhs but the entire Sikh community in the world, including those in India, also condemn this move,” said Gopal Singh, leader of the Baba Guru Nanak.

“The Sikh community is a minority both in India and Pakistan. Being a member of a minority, I can feel the pain and the fears of the Muslim minority [India]. This is simply persecution,” he said.

Singh urged Modi not to push minorities “back to the wall.”

Minority population figures contest Indian claim

While introducing the citizenship law, Indian Home Minister Amit Shah told parliament that non-Muslim population in Pakistan has alarmingly decreased over the years.

He said the minorities comprised 23% of Pakistan’s population in 1947, when it was formed. “But now it has decreased to a mere 3.7%,” he said, adding that this means either they have been killed, migrated or forced to convert their religion.

The official figures available with the Pakistan Census, however, contest his claims.

The minority population was never 23% in the then-West Pakistan (present-day Pakistan).

According to the 1961 census, the non-Muslim population was recorded at 2.83%. A decade later in 1972, the census recorded non-Muslim population at 3.25% of the total population. That means, it increased by 0.42%.

In the 1981 census, the non-Muslim population was 3.30%. In the next census carried out in 1998, it was recorded as 3.70% of the total population.

Though Pakistan carried out a fresh census in 2017, its religious data has yet to be released. However, according to Pakistan Hindu Council leader Manglani, Hindus make up 4% of the total 210 million population. Nearly 80% of Hindus — Pakistan’s largest minority — inhabit the southern part of the Sindh province.

Undermining rights of minorities

Pakistan’s government has accused India’s government led by Bharatiya Janata Party of toeing the ideology of “Hindutva Supremacy.”

“The Modi government continues to curb and undermine the rights of minorities in accordance with Hindutva supremacist ideology,” Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said in a series of tweets on Monday.

“Illegal annexation of Kashmir, [handing over of] Babri Masjid [to Hindus], and [the] Citizenship Amendment Bill which excludes Muslims, are all targeted towards subjugation of minorities,” he added.

Condemning the use of force against students protesting against the controversial bill in different parts of India, Qureshi said: “Concerned about the brutal and indiscriminate use of force by the state on Indian Muslim students of Jamia Millia Islamia and Aligarh Muslim University, protesting against the Citizenship Amendment Bill.”

Pakistan’s main opposition leader Shehbaz Sharif too decried the Modi government for stifling the voice of dissent through state force.

“Disturbing news and images emanating from India. The state fascism being perpetrated on students of Jamia Millia Islamia and Aligarh Muslim University, is a reminder that Modi’s hatred of Muslims is ideologically driven,” he said in a twitter post.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2119692/1-pakistani-hindus-reject-indias-offer-citizenship/
 
They probably dont see anything useful by migrating to India in terms of economic uplift - there is no large scale persecution in Pakistan so no reason to go.
 
Only if there were no news from Pakistani sources itself about Sikhs and Hindus leaving.. and about condition of Pakistani Hindus living in India..

What is he rejecting here though? Its not an offer , its a law unless he will make sure no minority ever comes to India, then he can reject...
 
I would imagine the Hindus who stayed in Pakistan after partition probably had business interests or property they valued highly. If they went to India, it must be doubtful they would have a similar stature over there as refugees.
 
I would imagine the Hindus who stayed in Pakistan after partition probably had business interests or property they valued highly. If they went to India, it must be doubtful they would have a similar stature over there as refugees.

Between 1947-1950? Or in last decade?
 
Both really.

Yeah no, I can understand in last decade but not 1947-1950, to give you an idea I had a grand uncle who in those times had an automobile in then Punjab and lot of rupees in the bank.. but first they were ransacked so first thing he did was bring his family to this side second , then he went back to get some wealth but the situation had turned so bad that establishment didn't give it back and his life was so much in danger that his couple of friends helped him disguise as a Muslim to comeback to India.

Now I’m not saying this didn't happen to Muslims in India but the establishment was slightly more peaceful in Southern India and somewhat in North thanks to Congress and other few leaders.
This is the reason I equate ML to BJP coz of my family’s history but guess Joshila took the other approach.

So yeah business had nothing to do with this , Imo the poor people stayed back in Ransacked parts of both places..
 
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I would imagine the Hindus who stayed in Pakistan after partition probably had business interests or property they valued highly. If they went to India, it must be doubtful they would have a similar stature over there as refugees.

Major factor was communal riots. Most of those who stayed back were in Sindh, while those from punjab and nwfp left. Likewise most of the population which did hijrat to pakistan were from north india.
 
Of course they would reject it. Life in India is worse for a Hindu than anywhere in the world. India is the biggest irony known to humanity.
 
I want every Pakistsni to stay in Pakistan, regardless of their religion. Every Pakistani should be treated equal. If anyone wants to leave to go to india, that would sadden me but thats their choice, i know most of my family would leave Pakistan to move to the UK if they could. Its not about persecution, but economics, Pakistan needs to improve the economy, then.you will see indians wanting to move to Pakistan, and i would consider in the future, retiring in Pakistan(also law and order , as well as corruption needs addressing).
 
Good decision. They are Pakistanis and it is our responsibility to give them equal rights.
 
In 2014, even I wanted to go to another country. The terrorism in our country was at one of its highest points.

Have any 2019 stats?

Ask your govt. I can only post stats that are in public.

Btw it says 5000 per year and not only 2014.
 
According to statements made in pakistani NA, nearly 5000 pakistani hindus migrate to India every year.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1105830

It may be a matter of survival for them.

How many of these 5000 are migrating solely due to religious discrimination? Very few.

If a Pakistan Hindu wants to leave the country in search for a better life, then India definitely isn't a place they consider. Only if they are unable to move to the West or Middle East do they use the religion card to move to India.

I have never heard of a Hindi family from Karachi move to India; all of these migrants are from interior Sindh and India represents the easiest destination for them. A Hindu family from Jacobabad moved to India 7-8 years ago and they hate life over there.
 
How many of these 5000 are migrating solely due to religious discrimination? Very few.

If a Pakistan Hindu wants to leave the country in search for a better life, then India definitely isn't a place they consider. Only if they are unable to move to the West or Middle East do they use the religion card to move to India.

I have never heard of a Hindi family from Karachi move to India; all of these migrants are from interior Sindh and India represents the easiest destination for them. A Hindu family from Jacobabad moved to India 7-8 years ago and they hate life over there.

So they wanna move at whatever the cost is what you are saying, I remember you being Pakistani Hindu, but the Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus claimed they had issues of discrimination in various articles so you are saying they are playing the religious card to move from Pakistan to India because they want to just MOVE out of Pakistan?
Hope you see the fallacy.. what is it that’s making Pakistani Hindus so desperate to leave Pakistan that they come to India lying abt religious discrimination..and not going back even after 6-7 years irrespective of their hatred abt their life in India..
 
So they wanna move at whatever the cost is what you are saying, I remember you being Pakistani Hindu, but the Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus claimed they had issues of discrimination in various articles so you are saying they are playing the religious card to move from Pakistan to India because they want to just MOVE out of Pakistan?
Hope you see the fallacy.. what is it that’s making Pakistani Hindus so desperate to leave Pakistan that they come to India lying abt religious discrimination..and not going back even after 6-7 years irrespective of their hatred abt their life in India..

I think he’s saying the right thing.

The ones who move to India are the poorest and the weakest and from backward villages.

The urban ones look to move for economic conditions so obv India isn’t destination since it too is largely poor economy
 
I think he’s saying the right thing.

The ones who move to India are the poorest and the weakest and from backward villages.

The urban ones look to move for economic conditions so obv India isn’t destination since it too is largely poor economy

But these poorest and weakest spend significant amount of money for taking passports and India visa.Why they aren't using that much money to move to a better place in pakistan.
 
I think he’s saying the right thing.

The ones who move to India are the poorest and the weakest and from backward villages.

The urban ones look to move for economic conditions so obv India isn’t destination since it too is largely poor economy

I know my question is why are they lying about religious persecution to move to a country like India, you won’t see poor Indian Muslims move to Bd or Pak, or Indian Dalits move to Lanka.. but whatever the cost they wanna move ,is the question..

Also the poorest come to know about a country called India and a refugee scheme,visa so clearly they are not unaware people ..and assuming most Hindu fams still have nothing great to say abt India and they share that back home(which is fair they are used to pak) , still it’s not faltering the other Hindus to move to India..
 
But these poorest and weakest spend significant amount of money for taking passports and India visa.Why they aren't using that much money to move to a better place in pakistan.
Lol they’re not spending significant amount by any means.
 
I had a Hindu class fellow from O and A levels and he often had overzealous display of patriotism towards Pak, sometimes it felt like he was doing it to prove a point. Even now he posts quite a lot of patriotic posts on FB.


I suppose the situation will be similar with Indian Muslims.


Not questioning the patriotism of our minorities but I wish a day comes when they are considered equal Pakistanis without them having to prove/show their loyalty towards the country.
 
I know my question is why are they lying about religious persecution to move to a country like India, you won’t see poor Indian Muslims move to Bd or Pak, or Indian Dalits move to Lanka.. but whatever the cost they wanna move ,is the question..

Also the poorest come to know about a country called India and a refugee scheme,visa so clearly they are not unaware people ..and assuming most Hindu fams still have nothing great to say abt India and they share that back home(which is fair they are used to pak) , still it’s not faltering the other Hindus to move to India..

No I’m not saying they aren’t persecuted

I’m saying the poorest and weakest are persecuted and these are the ones without the means to move to better countries so India is the best choice esp the current govt
 
I know my question is why are they lying about religious persecution to move to a country like India, you won’t see poor Indian Muslims move to Bd or Pak, or Indian Dalits move to Lanka.. but whatever the cost they wanna move ,is the question..

Also the poorest come to know about a country called India and a refugee scheme,visa so clearly they are not unaware people ..and assuming most Hindu fams still have nothing great to say abt India and they share that back home(which is fair they are used to pak) , still it’s not faltering the other Hindus to move to India..

Actually the greatest amount of foreigners who take up Pakistani nationality in any given year is always Indians. IIRC about 500 Indians took up Pakistani citizenship in recent years.

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2019/03/09/461-indians-applied-for-pakistani-citizenship-during-last-10-years/
 
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No I’m not saying they aren’t persecuted

I’m saying the poorest and weakest are persecuted and these are the ones without the means to move to better countries so India is the best choice esp the current govt

Got it..
 
Lol they’re not spending significant amount by any means.
I checked the visa costs it's affordable for even poor people but to take passports for a family they need to spend amount of money which is not affordable for many poor people in subcontinent.
 
So they wanna move at whatever the cost is what you are saying, I remember you being Pakistani Hindu, but the Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus claimed they had issues of discrimination in various articles so you are saying they are playing the religious card to move from Pakistan to India because they want to just MOVE out of Pakistan?
Hope you see the fallacy.. what is it that’s making Pakistani Hindus so desperate to leave Pakistan that they come to India lying abt religious discrimination..and not going back even after 6-7 years irrespective of their hatred abt their life in India..

I'm not saying discrimination doesn't exist, because it does. However, it is nowhere near the level what you guys believe it to be.

Yes, the villagers are so poor and uneducated that their only realistic destination is India. Lol what's the big deal in lying about religious discrimination? It's easy to believe; specially if you're going to a hindu country.
 
How many of these 5000 are migrating solely due to religious discrimination? Very few.

If a Pakistan Hindu wants to leave the country in search for a better life, then India definitely isn't a place they consider. Only if they are unable to move to the West or Middle East do they use the religion card to move to India.

I have never heard of a Hindi family from Karachi move to India; all of these migrants are from interior Sindh and India represents the easiest destination for them. A Hindu family from Jacobabad moved to India 7-8 years ago and they hate life over there.

Why shouldn't they. It's always a tough decision for people to migrate be it security, persecution or economics. People will always have fond memories of places where they stayed with generations, where they still have extended families where they have childhood memories, where there can be neighbours or friends who stood by them through all testing times.

Remember just because they really don't enjoy staying in a new country or city, does not mean they will go back. There are compulsions, aspirations and necessities in play and many get torn apart internally because of that.
 
I'm not saying discrimination doesn't exist, because it does. However, it is nowhere near the level what you guys believe it to be.

Yes, the villagers are so poor and uneducated that their only realistic destination is India. Lol what's the big deal in lying about religious discrimination? It's easy to believe; specially if you're going to a hindu country.

You're literally living at the mercy of the Muslims Indian Muslims will be at the same position as yours if bjp government continues to govern India for another 5 to 10 years.
 
I'm not saying discrimination doesn't exist, because it does. However, it is nowhere near the level what you guys believe it to be.

Yes, the villagers are so poor and uneducated that their only realistic destination is India. Lol what's the big deal in lying about religious discrimination? It's easy to believe; specially if you're going to a hindu country.

I believe it exists at constitutional level, other than that caste level discrimination is the equivalent to religious discrimination there is all I assume.

Why do you think its a Hindu country? Hindu majority maybe..
 
I believe it exists at constitutional level, other than that caste level discrimination is the equivalent to religious discrimination there is all I assume.

Why do you think its a Hindu country? Hindu majority maybe..

Hindu majority + recent events, which all of us know about
 
Unfortunate and hopefully this shall pass and India would be known as Hindu majority in future.

Exactly. While certain parts of the country are being easily polarized , the majority of the country continues to be tolerant of diversity. And we need to understand a lot of these latest legislations do not have any relevance on ground other than gimmicks to certain groups of fools. Hindus, Muslims , Christians or Sikhs they really don't have time for these gimmicks in general. While this may earn them some votes from gullibles, in the long run if the economy, infrastructure, education, jobs is not taken care of, urban middle class which has brought the current government in power not just through votes but through social endorsements and narratives won't hesitate to get somebody else.
 
Okayyy, good stay wherever you are. I get it if you have to say all this to make your life a teeny bit less miserable. Anyways, CAA is meant to help those who came as refugees prior to 2014.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dear Indians, <br><br>If I raise my voice for our rights, it NEVER means I'm seeking your support or we're migrating from here.<br><br>Dear <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistanis?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistanis</a> <br><br>If I raise my voice for our rights, it NEVER means I'm an Indian agent. <br><br>We <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistani?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistani</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hindus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hindus</a> want <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EqualCitizenship?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EqualCitizenship</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanForAll?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanForAll</a>.</p>— Kapil Dev (@KDSindhi) <a href="https://twitter.com/KDSindhi/status/1312481749998346240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dear Indians, <br><br>If I raise my voice for our rights, it NEVER means I'm seeking your support or we're migrating from here.<br><br>Dear <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistanis?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistanis</a> <br><br>If I raise my voice for our rights, it NEVER means I'm an Indian agent. <br><br>We <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistani?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistani</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hindus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hindus</a> want <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EqualCitizenship?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EqualCitizenship</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanForAll?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanForAll</a>.</p>— Kapil Dev (@KDSindhi) <a href="https://twitter.com/KDSindhi/status/1312481749998346240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This guy seems great. Is he associated with Jibran Nasir at all? Sorry if that's a dumb question, British-born Pakistani who only understands rudimentary Urdu (my family speak Pothwari- parents know and understand Urdu though), and most of what I hear about Pakistani politics is from my parents who are strong PTI supporters.
 
Mass Hindu wedding defies poverty and persecution in Pakistan

Under a chequered marquee dazzling with chandeliers, 122 Hindu couples unable to afford their own weddings were instead married in a mass ceremony in Muslim-majority Pakistan.

In the southern megacity of Karachi, the joint nuptials on Sunday were a riot of celebration in defiance of poverty and persecution.

"I am getting married here because my parents are poor. They cannot afford the wedding expenses," 25-year-old bride Kalpana Devi told AFP, swathed in traditional red attire.

Her financial misfortunes -- and sharing her big day with dozens of other brides -- failed to dampen her spirits.

"I wish that everyone could get married here," she said.

Weddings are a costly affair in Pakistan, where the bride's male relatives are also often expected to pay a dowry to the groom's family, with the expense delaying the marriage of women.

"This is a good opportunity for me as my financial state is very weak. I was not able to raise funds for the wedding," says 25-year-old Sateesh Parmar, the brother of bride Neha Parmar.

The nation is clawing its way out of a financial crisis, and rights monitors have long warned that marginalised Hindus suffer some of the worst socio-economic discrimination in Pakistan.

The Pakistan Hindu Council, which hosted the ceremony, says there are eight million Hindus among the 240 million people living in Pakistan, according to last year's census.

Rights groups say Hindu women are sometimes subjected to forced conversion to Islam through marriage.

Last January, UN experts said there was a reported rise in girls as young as 13 being "kidnapped from their families, trafficked to locations far from their homes, made to marry men sometimes twice their age, and coerced to convert to Islam".

Shiva Kacchi, a Hindu activist, said he spoke with more than 170 families who said their daughters were forcibly converted in 2022.

Police, however, have said that the girls eloped with affluent Muslim men to evade poverty.

"Young girls have many desires, and our parents cannot afford to fulfil them," explained Hindu activist Sundarta Rathor, also involved in arranging the mass wedding.

"The combination of economic challenges and limited education makes them susceptible to external pressures."



Source: AFP
 
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