Pakistanis with parents born in India or vice versa

[Abdulm123]

My mom is from Lahore Pakistan but my dads family hails from New Delhi. I always felt closer and had more of a connection and attachment to Pakistan and its culture and people compared to India hence why I am a lifelong Pakistan supporter. I was never that close to my dad in my life as compared to my mom.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

My mom is from Lahore Pakistan but my dads family hails from New Delhi. I always felt closer and had more of a connection and attachment to Pakistan and its culture and people compared to India hence why I am a lifelong Pakistan supporter. I was never that close to my dad in my life as compared to my mom.

I think one of our site moderator born in India but later shifted to Karachi. Much respect for him.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Dad side from SWAT. Moms side from hyd deccan. Mom was born there but lived in Pak all her life. She was a Pak cricket fan

 

[Knight_Rider]

My mum was also born in Delhi and having grown up in 80s/90s Karachi, i felt more affinity towards Delhi than any other city of Pakistan (where the people, culture, food and languages were all different to a greater extent).

 

[Bewal Express]

If it counts but both my mum and dad were born before partition.

 

[Salman]

Mums side Karachi, father side Hyderabad India of Pattan decent, but my father also classes Pakistan as his first home, otherwise these days i would be drinking a beer and dancing to the sound of team India in my funky sun glasses.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Both my parents were born in India. Following several world cup humiliations and being represented by a Teletubby as captain of the cricket team, I am considering switching loyalties and calling myself a British Indian.

I am fed up of seeing wannabe Indians like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] trying to steal the limelight when I have a much more legitimate claim to be the real thing.

 

[Mamoon]

Both my parents were born in India. Following several world cup humiliations and being represented by a Teletubby as captain of the cricket team, I am considering switching loyalties and calling myself a British Indian.

I am fed up of seeing wannabe Indians like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] trying to steal the limelight when I have a much more legitimate claim to be the real thing.

My dad's maternal grandfather was a commissioner in Delhi for years prior to partition. As a result of his prominent status, he inadvertently got involved with the leaders of Pakistan movement and unfortunately, made the mistake of migrating to Pakistan. Had he stayed in India, I wouldn't have been born, but it is okay because staying in India would have been better for his future generations.

Pakistan is probably the last country in the world that I would have opted to be born in. India is not my first choice by any means, but it is still a far, far better option than Pakistan. It is a proper country with good global image and has a bright future. Pakistan is just a fancier Afghanistan. Nevertheless, you have to make do with what you have. It is a pity that of all the countries in the world, I had to be born in Pakistan, but it is what it is.

 

[MenInG]

In 1947, my mother left her family in a small town in India and put herself in a ship where she didnt have a cabin or place to sleep in. As she left her home, she told her mother that I am answering the call of The Quaid.

She arrived in Karachi, started teaching Urdu in one of the colleges and made her life in Pakistan.

My father also from India, left a cushy family job to join the PAF to serve our beautiful country.

The pride in my family is immense which is why when I read some ingrates talking about living in this beautiful land as it was some sort of burden, it does make me slightly mad.

But such people exist in all lands and one day will get their comeuppance for their views on this country.

 

[Technics 1210]

My dad's maternal grandfather was a commissioner in Delhi for years prior to partition. As a result of his prominent status, he inadvertently got involved with the leaders of Pakistan movement and unfortunately, made the mistake of migrating to Pakistan. Had he stayed in India, I wouldn't have been born, but it is okay because staying in India would have been better for his future generations.

Pakistan is probably the last country in the world that I would have opted to be born in. India is not my first choice by any means, but it is still a far, far better option than Pakistan. It is a proper country with good global image and has a bright future. Pakistan is just a fancier Afghanistan. Nevertheless, you have to make do with what you have. It is a pity that of all the countries in the world, I had to be born in Pakistan, but it is what it is.

If there ever was a definition and evidence of a sham patriot, then this is it. Patriots are proud of their country regardless, but this guy is anything but proud. He is not even ashamed of being a Pakistani, but regrets being a Pakistani. This explains why he posts vitriol against Pakistan and uses every opportunity to degrade Pakistan. So delusional he actually believes he had a choice in where he was born.

@OP, my paternal and maternal grandparents were born in India, and the only thing they ever regretted was leaving their belongings and friends in India during the partition.

 

[Syed1]

Both sets of grand parents hailed from India. Father's side from Delhi and mother's side from Lucknow. My fathers older siblings were born in India but my father was born in Karachi. Mother was born in Lahore.

Paternal Grand father left behind a massive fishing export business in India and answered the call of the Quaid. He then built his life again from scratch and mashallah se by the end of his lifetime he had re-established himself as a wealthy businessman. When you have talent and hardwork you can always rise again. Seeing this my father is a very, very patriotic man and some part of it might have rubbed off on me as well. That's why I find it highly astonishing how some Pakistanis can go about bad mouthing their country. I guess those people who got the country ghar bethay hi and never had to sacrifice anything for it do not appreciate her worth.

 

[Mamoon]

If there ever was a definition and evidence of a sham patriot, then this is it. Patriots are proud of their country regardless, but this guy is anything but proud. He is not even ashamed of being a Pakistani, but regrets being a Pakistani. This explains why he posts vitriol against Pakistan and uses every opportunity to degrade Pakistan. So delusional he actually believes he had a choice in where he was born.

@OP, my paternal and maternal grandparents were born in India, and the only thing they ever regretted was leaving their belongings and friends in India during the partition.

The definition of a sham patriot is someone who claims that the standard of living in Pakistan is better than the UK, and pretty much everything is superior. However, he is still unwilling to quit his job in the UK, pack his bags and come home. That defines sham patriotism better than anything.

"So delusional he actually believes he had a choice in where he was born" um what? Where did you pull that one from?

Growing up in Pakistan, I was subjected to the same propaganda as everyone else and was brainwashed into thinking that Pakistan is great country with a very bright future, but our enemies are not letting us live in peace. However, that is when I started my own research and learned about our tainted past, and I have come to the conclusion that Pakistan is its own biggest enemy and to put it bluntly, we are simply a problematic, good for nothing country. Our only speciality is creating problems for ourselves and for other countries.

In most desi families, there is usually that one person that creates trouble in his/her own home and also in his/her relatives' homes as well, but will always blame others and never takes accountability for anything. Pakistan is that person.

 

[GBK_Fan]

In 1947, my mother left her family in a small town in India and put herself in a ship where she didnt have a cabin or place to sleep in. As she left her home, she told her mother that I am answering the call of The Quaid.

She arrived in Karachi, started teaching Urdu in one of the colleges and made her life in Pakistan.

My father also from India, left a cushy family job to join the PAF to serve our beautiful country.

The pride in my family is immense which is why when I read some ingrates talking about living in this beautiful land as it was some sort of burden, it does make me slightly mad.

But such people exist in all lands and one day will get their comeuppance for their views on this country.

Your mother was a strong woman far ahead of her time. Respect

 

[Technics 1210]

The definition of a sham patriot is someone who claims that the standard of living in Pakistan is better than the UK, and pretty much everything is superior. However, he is still unwilling to quit his job in the UK, pack his bags and come home. That defines sham patriotism better than anything.

"So delusional he actually believes he had a choice in where he was born" um what? Where did you pull that one from?

Growing up in Pakistan, I was subjected to the same propaganda as everyone else and was brainwashed into thinking that Pakistan is great country with a very bright future, but our enemies are not letting us live in peace. However, that is when I started my own research and learned about our tainted past, and I have come to the conclusion that Pakistan is its own biggest enemy and to put it bluntly, we are simply a problematic, good for nothing country. Our only speciality is creating problems for ourselves and for other countries.

In most desi families, there is usually that one person that creates trouble in his/her own home and also in his/her relatives' homes as well, but will always blame others and never takes accountability for anything. Pakistan is that person.

You have not lived in the UK long enough to realise the realities of the UK; a visiting VISA is not a qualification. Most Pakistanis in the UK agree that life in Pakistan is unbeatable if you have the money and almost every single British born Pakistani in the UK possess a Maroon, Green, and NADRA card [the joys of dual nationality] and are setting up shop in Pakistan which not only means they are contributing to the Pakistan economy, but proves they are more patriotic than you are. You wouldn't realise this as you live off the bank of mum and dad, envelopes, and judge your standard of living by the bandwidth of your internet connection.

Definition of a Patriot:

a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.

You are a sham patriot, not based on where you live, but based on your views and feelings towards Pakistan and being a Pakistani. Someone who categorically regrets being a Pakistan cannot be a patriot by definition, moreover you do not fit into the definition above by any stretch of the imagination.

A patriot is proud of their country, but their pride has squat to do with where they live. So do yourself a favour, change your profile flag to India, and who knows, people might just respect you for who you are, and not who you pretend to be.

 

[Green Patriot]

In 1947, my mother left her family in a small town in India and put herself in a ship where she didnt have a cabin or place to sleep in. As she left her home, she told her mother that I am answering the call of The Quaid.

She arrived in Karachi, started teaching Urdu in one of the colleges and made her life in Pakistan.

My father also from India, left a cushy family job to join the PAF to serve our beautiful country.

The pride in my family is immense which is why when I read some ingrates talking about living in this beautiful land as it was some sort of burden, it does make me slightly mad.

But such people exist in all lands and one day will get their comeuppance for their views on this country.

You must be proud of your mother.Seems like an immensely courageous lady.Our country needs more women like her who can stand up for what they believe in.Kudos to her.

 

[JaDed]

Im guessing vice versa means Indians whose grandparents are from Pak?

My maternal and Paternal grandparents migrated from Punjab Pakistan settled in Delhi like all refugees and set up a mix culture in west Delhi..

Maternal grandfather served in the Indian army his complete life and grandmother taught Hindi in school which she learnt after coming to India.

Paternal grandparents were from village in Pakistan, lost a daughter there as they delayed the move.. and somehow never really became that successful because of being cautious..

Fun fact my last name is the name of the village in Pakistan, near to Tara Singhs village, saw on YouTube recently a Pakistani tuber showing the place.

 

[MenInG]

Im guessing vice versa means Indians whose grandparents are from Pak?

My maternal and Paternal grandparents migrated from Punjab Pakistan settled in Delhi like all refugees and set up a mix culture in west Delhi..

Maternal grandfather served in the Indian army his complete life and grandmother taught Hindi in school which she learnt after coming to India.

Paternal grandparents were from village in Pakistan, lost a daughter there as they delayed the move.. and somehow never really became that successful because of being cautious..

Fun fact my last name is the name of the village in Pakistan, near to Tara Singhs village, saw on YouTube recently a Pakistani tuber showing the place.

Yes that is correct.

 

[slipcatch]

If you have children then how many of you are sharing this precious history with your children?

 

[Syed1]

If you have children then how many of you are sharing this precious history with your children?

When I have children they will have patriotism for the country inculcated into them from a young age and none of this "I wish I was Indian" B.S. will be tolerated under my roof.

 

[IMMY69]

Both parents born on the other side of the boarder.
Mother in Mumbai and father in Hyderabad.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Those claiming patriotism and the call of Qauid, should realise that Qauid-e-Azam, just like Bnazir Bhutto was unable to speak Urdu, or had much in common with the ordinary Indian Muslim of his day. He resembled more the colonial masters than anything else. Patriotism based on country borders is a fake and made-up notion, as the political boundaries of countries are fluid and ever changing. What is Pakistan and India now, would look very different 150-200 years down the road.

Being from an Indian Muhajir family, i too wish that Pakistan was never created. As a result, muslims of Subcontinent (Collectively) would ve been in a better state and within India the balance of power wouldn’t ve shifted this much towards hardline Hinduvitas. Many muslim leaders like Abulkalam Azad rejected the idea of Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

Those claiming patriotism and the call of Qauid, should realise that Qauid-e-Azam, just like Bnazir Bhutto was unable to speak Urdu, or had much in common with the ordinary Indian Muslim of his day. He resembled more the colonial masters than anything else. Patriotism based on country borders is a fake and made-up notion, as the political boundaries of countries are fluid and ever changing. What is Pakistan and India now, would look very different 150-200 years down the road.

Being from an Indian Muhajir family, i too wish that Pakistan was never created. As a result, muslims of Subcontinent (Collectively) would ve been in a better state and within India the balance of power wouldn’t ve shifted this much towards hardline Hinduvitas. Many muslim leaders like Abulkalam Azad rejected the idea of Pakistan.

If you follow your own logic, in that, patriotism based on country borders is a fake and made-up notion, then stop claiming you are from an Indian Muhajir family, instead call yourself a World Citizen and be done with it.

 

[HussainRx8]

The definition of a sham patriot is someone who claims that the standard of living in Pakistan is better than the UK, and pretty much everything is superior. However, he is still unwilling to quit his job in the UK, pack his bags and come home. That defines sham patriotism better than anything.

"So delusional he actually believes he had a choice in where he was born" um what? Where did you pull that one from?

Growing up in Pakistan, I was subjected to the same propaganda as everyone else and was brainwashed into thinking that Pakistan is great country with a very bright future, but our enemies are not letting us live in peace. However, that is when I started my own research and learned about our tainted past, and I have come to the conclusion that Pakistan is its own biggest enemy and to put it bluntly, we are simply a problematic, good for nothing country. Our only speciality is creating problems for ourselves and for other countries.

In most desi families, there is usually that one person that creates trouble in his/her own home and also in his/her relatives' homes as well, but will always blame others and never takes accountability for anything. Pakistan is that person.

Hope the irony of a bureaucratic father who forced the country closer to the edge of a cliff wasn't lost on you. The introspection should begin at home in your case.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Thats just stating the fact and not patriotism.

 

[Musakhel]

Being overtly patriotic is not a great or Nobel Quality.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

In 1947, my mother left her family in a small town in India and put herself in a ship where she didnt have a cabin or place to sleep in. As she left her home, she told her mother that I am answering the call of The Quaid.

She arrived in Karachi, started teaching Urdu in one of the colleges and made her life in Pakistan.

My father also from India, left a cushy family job to join the PAF to serve our beautiful country.

The pride in my family is immense which is why when I read some ingrates talking about living in this beautiful land as it was some sort of burden, it does make me slightly mad.

But such people exist in all lands and one day will get their comeuppance for their views on this country.

My salute to the courageous lady. There are many namak haram in this country who & whose family enjoys the maximum from the taxes of poor peoples & at the same time sitting at home during their job time & shamelessly bashing the same peoples whom tax they are eating.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In 1947, my mother left her family in a small town in India and put herself in a ship where she didnt have a cabin or place to sleep in. As she left her home, she told her mother that I am answering the call of The Quaid.

She arrived in Karachi, started teaching Urdu in one of the colleges and made her life in Pakistan.

My father also from India, left a cushy family job to join the PAF to serve our beautiful country.

The pride in my family is immense which is why when I read some ingrates talking about living in this beautiful land as it was some sort of burden, it does make me slightly mad.

But such people exist in all lands and one day will get their comeuppance for their views on this country.

Touching story, you are blessed with amazing parents. Sacrifices people have made to be part of Pakistan should never be forgotten.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

My paternal grandfather & maternal grand father were from the most notable nawab Ameer Khan's family of tonk state, one of my great grand father was darogha of the tonk city.

My paternal grandmother was very unfortunate lady with miserable past. She was from rohtak punjab. Her entire family (father, mother, 5 married brothers & their children, 3 married sisters & alongwith their children) were killed during travelling to Pakistan. She used to tell us that she saved herself by hiding herself under the mound of dead bodies one of her sister was survived too but her eyes were extruded & she lost somewhere in walton's temporary camp. This tragedy made her so strong that till her death (2011) we never saw her cry. I still remember her stoned eyes whenever she talked about her family. إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ.

 

[Pakistanian]

This thread is about people who are half Pakistani and half Indian (from after 1947) not about people who's forefathers migrated to Pakistan at partition.

 

[Afhan Ali]

My paternal grandfather & maternal grand father were from the most notable nawab Ameer Khan's family of tonk state, one of my great grand father was darogha of the tonk city.

My paternal grandmother was very unfortunate lady with miserable past. She was from rohtak punjab. Her entire family (father, mother, 5 married brothers & their children, 3 married sisters & alongwith their children) were killed during travelling to Pakistan. She used to tell us that she saved herself by hiding herself under the mound of dead bodies one of her sister was survived too but her eyes were extruded & she lost somewhere in walton's temporary camp. This tragedy made her so strong that till her death (2011) we never saw her cry. I still remember her stoned eyes whenever she talked about her family. إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ.

It hurts very unfortunate
Allah ose jannat naseeb kare

 

[Mamoon]

You have not lived in the UK long enough to realise the realities of the UK; a visiting VISA is not a qualification. Most Pakistanis in the UK agree that life in Pakistan is unbeatable if you have the money

Life is unbeatable anywhere if you have the money. Even in Afghanistan, the rich are living a comfortable life. However, it appears that you are incapable of understanding something very basic - the standard of living of any country IS NOT measured by the lifestyle of the rich. To claim that the standard of living in Pakistan and most other things are better compared to the UK is utter nonsense.

I have a lot of family in the UK and if I tell them that a troll on the Internet thinks that the standard of living in Pakistan is superior, they will laugh it off. Similarly, if you create a thread on this forum and debate the standard of living of Pakistan compared to the UK, you will find yourself all alone in your assessment that Pakistan is better, even though there are some very hyper patriots here.

The UK is not perfect, but it beats Pakistan to a pulp by most measures. Pakistan is a hell to live in if you are not rich.

and almost every single British born Pakistani in the UK possess a Maroon, Green, and NADRA card [the joys of dual nationality] and are setting up shop in Pakistan which not only means they are contributing to the Pakistan economy, but proves they are more patriotic than you are. You wouldn't realise this as you live off the bank of mum and dad, envelopes, and judge your standard of living by the bandwidth of your internet connection.

I have a 30 Mbps fibre connection, which I think is fastest Internet available in the country and definitely the fastest in my city. However, it costs me 6,000 rupees per month, which is quite a lot for the majority of the population. If you earn about 50k a month, you are not going to dump 12% of your income on Internet. That is why people usually settle for 10 or 15 Mbps.

Speaking of "contribution to the economy", let me give you a reality check. The biggest contributors to the economy are the qualified professionals who are part of the system and providing their services to the Pakistani economy, not sham patriots like you who work in the telecom industry in the UK, and then claim that they are helping Pakistan because of the money that they send home.

For a third world country like Pakistan, brain-drain is a massive problem. You go to any university/medical college/ engineering college/business school etc. in the country, and you will find that most of the "patriotic students" are already dreaming of finding a way out of the country. If these qualified professionals stayed in Pakistan and provide their services here, they would help the economy much more than running away to the West with their tails between their legs and sending money home.

If that is the optimal way of helping the economy, how about all of us professionals leave Pakistan, leaving behind the uneducated masses. We will send home a lot of money, and turn our country into a global power. Do you think that would work?

Speaking of dual nationality, I believe Pakistani government needs to take a leaf out of India's book and put sham patriots like you in your place. Pakistan's dual nationality system has been greatly abused by sham patriots who enjoy a better standard of living in the West, but also do great favours on their homeland by gracing them with their royal presence for a few weeks every now then and casting votes in elections.

You cannot have it both ways. If you want to live and work in the West, that is your choice, but then you will have to give up your rights as a Pakistani citizen. Dual citizenship is a terrible concept that has only facilitated brain-drain. Of course, if given a choice, most people would happily give up their Pakistani passports for a foreign one, including yourself, regardless of how much you claim over the Internet that the standard of living in Pakistan is better.

If you really thought that, you would have given up your telecom job in the UK long ago and returned to work in Pakistan for good. However, putting an end to dual citizenship will discourage people from going abroad to a significant extent.

Definition of a Patriot:

a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.

Your dictionary copy paste defintion of patriotism belongs in the garbage. Your patriotism is no good to anyone when you are sitting in the UK and serving the UK telecom industry. Loving, supporting and defending your country from afar will not help drive it forward.

If you were really devoted to your homeland beyond your words, you would be working in the Pakistan telecom industry today, not the UK one.

You are a sham patriot, not based on where you live, but based on your views and feelings towards Pakistan and being a Pakistani. Someone who categorically regrets being a Pakistan cannot be a patriot by definition, moreover you do not fit into the definition above by any stretch of the imagination.

A patriot is proud of their country, but their pride has squat to do with where they live. So do yourself a favour, change your profile flag to India, and who knows, people might just respect you for who you are, and not who you pretend to be.

I am not a sham patriot, because I am not a patriot in the first place. I make no bones about the fact that I consider myself unfortunate to be a Pakistani. However, unfortunately, I am stuck here. My parents, my family, my wealth - everything is in this country, and I cannot settle abroad. Nonetheless, since I am stuck here, I want to be a productive member of the society. That is why I became a doctor and did my specialisation from the U.S. because it provides a significant edge in landing jobs here.

You can call me anything you want, but don't use the word patriot for me, because I do not qualify for it. I don't care about this country; I care about my parents, my family and my assets. If I was fortunate enough to not have any ties with this country, I would never step foot in it.

 

[Mamoon]

Hope the irony of a bureaucratic father who forced the country closer to the edge of a cliff wasn't lost on you. The introspection should begin at home in your case.

Pakistan is where it is today because of the stronghold of the military establishment who have compromised the economy, the foreign policy as well as the domestic policy of the country to serve their own interests. No politician or bureaucrat has damaged the country half as much as the men in boots that our gullible public worships as the guardian angel of the country.

India is as corrupt as Pakistan if not more - be it politics or bureaucracy, yet they are far ahead of us because their military doesn't control the country to serve their own interests. They know where they belong, i.e. on the borders. Their military is subservient to the federal government, while our military controls the federal government on a string.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Well said Mamoon. Fully agree.

The Men in boots have been pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes for far too long. Still there are plenty in the country who will defend the Army at every cost.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well said Mamoon. Fully agree.

The Men in boots have been pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes for far too long. Still there are plenty in the country who will defend the Army at every cost. .

The army has also defended Pakistan and recently the air force made India look a complete idiotic nation. If it wasn't for the armed forces of Pakistan, you would be licking the boots of Indian soldiers but perhaps you would like this.

 

[MenInG]

My salute to the courageous lady. There are many namak haram in this country who & whose family enjoys the maximum from the taxes of poor peoples & at the same time sitting at home during their job time & shamelessly bashing the same peoples whom tax they are eating.

Unfortunately, they will never learn.

 

[cric_man]

Pakistan is where it is today because of the stronghold of the military establishment who have compromised the economy, the foreign policy as well as the domestic policy of the country to serve their own interests. No politician or bureaucrat has damaged the country half as much as the men in boots that our gullible public worships as the guardian angel of the country.

India is as corrupt as Pakistan if not more - be it politics or bureaucracy, yet they are far ahead of us because their military doesn't control the country to serve their own interests. They know where they belong, i.e. on the borders. Their military is subservient to the federal government, while our military controls the federal government on a string.

Tell me how has the military destroyed the economy is the last 10 years where we went from an external debt burden of ~ 35 Billion USD to 100 Billion USD and exports dropping precipitously?

The only tangible development phase 1960-65 were all development markers moved up significantly was under a military dictator. And the paragon of democracy in Pakistan aka ZAB presided over the destruction of educational institutions, healthy banking & shipping sectors due to disastrous nationalization policies.

 

[Technics 1210]

Life is unbeatable anywhere if you have the money. Even in Afghanistan, the rich are living a comfortable life. However, it appears that you are incapable of understanding something very basic - the standard of living of any country IS NOT measured by the lifestyle of the rich. To claim that the standard of living in Pakistan and most other things are better compared to the UK is utter nonsense.

I have a lot of family in the UK and if I tell them that a troll on the Internet thinks that the standard of living in Pakistan is superior, they will laugh it off. Similarly, if you create a thread on this forum and debate the standard of living of Pakistan compared to the UK, you will find yourself all alone in your assessment that Pakistan is better, even though there are some very hyper patriots here.

The UK is not perfect, but it beats Pakistan to a pulp by most measures. Pakistan is a hell to live in if you are not rich.

I have a 30 Mbps fibre connection, which I think is fastest Internet available in the country and definitely the fastest in my city. However, it costs me 6,000 rupees per month, which is quite a lot for the majority of the population. If you earn about 50k a month, you are not going to dump 12% of your income on Internet. That is why people usually settle for 10 or 15 Mbps.

Speaking of "contribution to the economy", let me give you a reality check. The biggest contributors to the economy are the qualified professionals who are part of the system and providing their services to the Pakistani economy, not sham patriots like you who work in the telecom industry in the UK, and then claim that they are helping Pakistan because of the money that they send home.

For a third world country like Pakistan, brain-drain is a massive problem. You go to any university/medical college/ engineering college/business school etc. in the country, and you will find that most of the "patriotic students" are already dreaming of finding a way out of the country. If these qualified professionals stayed in Pakistan and provide their services here, they would help the economy much more than running away to the West with their tails between their legs and sending money home.

If that is the optimal way of helping the economy, how about all of us professionals leave Pakistan, leaving behind the uneducated masses. We will send home a lot of money, and turn our country into a global power. Do you think that would work?

Speaking of dual nationality, I believe Pakistani government needs to take a leaf out of India's book and put sham patriots like you in your place. Pakistan's dual nationality system has been greatly abused by sham patriots who enjoy a better standard of living in the West, but also do great favours on their homeland by gracing them with their royal presence for a few weeks every now then and casting votes in elections.

You cannot have it both ways. If you want to live and work in the West, that is your choice, but then you will have to give up your rights as a Pakistani citizen. Dual citizenship is a terrible concept that has only facilitated brain-drain. Of course, if given a choice, most people would happily give up their Pakistani passports for a foreign one, including yourself, regardless of how much you claim over the Internet that the standard of living in Pakistan is better.

If you really thought that, you would have given up your telecom job in the UK long ago and returned to work in Pakistan for good. However, putting an end to dual citizenship will discourage people from going abroad to a significant extent.

Your dictionary copy paste defintion of patriotism belongs in the garbage. Your patriotism is no good to anyone when you are sitting in the UK and serving the UK telecom industry. Loving, supporting and defending your country from afar will not help drive it forward.

If you were really devoted to your homeland beyond your words, you would be working in the Pakistan telecom industry today, not the UK one.

I am not a sham patriot, because I am not a patriot in the first place. I make no bones about the fact that I consider myself unfortunate to be a Pakistani. However, unfortunately, I am stuck here. My parents, my family, my wealth - everything is in this country, and I cannot settle abroad. Nonetheless, since I am stuck here, I want to be a productive member of the society. That is why I became a doctor and did my specialisation from the U.S. because it provides a significant edge in landing jobs here.

You can call me anything you want, but don't use the word patriot for me, because I do not qualify for it. I don't care about this country; I care about my parents, my family and my assets. If I was fortunate enough to not have any ties with this country, I would never step foot in it.

Your standard of living is one that is based on materialism.

I will call you a sham patriot because not only do you spend most of your life degrading and insulting Pakistan (which is the opposite of patriotism), but you have the gall to label expat Pakistanis unpatriotic.

You do not fit into any definition of patriot. You yourself have stated above you do not care about Pakistan. Call it copy and paste, but definitions in dictionaries are meant to be non-ambiguous, and not your 500 word essay explanations which amount to insecurity.

Which definition of patriot would you like to see, as I see you have not offered a definition?

A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

a person who loves their country and who is ready to defend it against an enemy

love for or devotion to one's country

You can take your pick on any definition on patriotism and not only will you find that you do not fit into any definition, but ones love of their country is not confined by where they live - your laughable logic is akin to saying children cannot not love their parents if they live in separate countries.

You're a sham mate, and an insult to the Pakistan flag you pretend to represent; you're a sick minded individual who believes the world, Pakistan in particular, owes you something, when the reality is is not the world that has failed you, but it is you who has failed in this world.

Just do us all a favour and change your profile flag to India - you would make more sense then!

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

How can you call yourself a patriot after wanting Indian jets to bomb Pakistani schoolchildren? Most nations would take 1 overseas patriot who defends his/her nation over 10 residents who constantly spread hate of their nation and are always siding with the enemy. Im sure you'd agree.

 

[Abdullah719]

Mother from Karachi, father from Bhopal.

Born in Bhopal, but moved to Karachi a long time ago.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mother from Karachi, father from Bhopal.

Born in Bhopal, but moved to Karachi a long time ago.

Is that Bhopal where there was the tragic gas disastor many years ago?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The army has also defended Pakistan and recently the air force made India look a complete idiotic nation. If it wasn't for the armed forces of Pakistan, you would be licking the boots of Indian soldiers but perhaps you would like this.

Dammit, now you've reminded me of an Indian episode even more embarrassing than Sarfraz' tiddy Pakistan cricket team. I was never serious about the British Indian thing, I'm leaving that to Mamoon after all. I will revisit this subject in 2025 when India's predicted world rule era has begun!

 

[Abdullah719]

Is that Bhopal where there was the tragic gas disastor many years ago?

Yes.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Dammit, now you've reminded me of an Indian episode even more embarrassing than Sarfraz' tiddy Pakistan cricket team. I was never serious about the British Indian thing, I'm leaving that to Mamoon after all. I will revisit this subject in 2025 when India's predicted world rule era has begun!

ha, keep your options on the table because because the fall of USA and Russia will mean India the new ruler of the world.

Yes.

Hope your family or anyone you know weren't effected. Really scary event.

 

[Knight_Rider]

The army has also defended Pakistan and recently the air force made India look a complete idiotic nation. If it wasn't for the armed forces of Pakistan, you would be licking the boots of Indian soldiers but perhaps you would like this.

Typical reaction of those already licking the boots. To sum it up: yes every Army has a role to play but the one in Pakistan is playing many more. That’s the point here..

And well done to Pak Army for defending the boundaries recently.

 

[Slog]

Grandparents were all indian

Thankfully they made the decision to leav that hellhole. I send prayers their way everyday

 

[cric_man]

Typical reaction of those already licking the boots. To sum it up: yes every Army has a role to play but the one in Pakistan is playing many more. That’s the point here..

And well done to Pak Army for defending the boundaries recently.

Tell me how has the military impeded the democratically elected leaders from developing robust economical policies and growing the economy in the last 10 years. Our foreign debt ballooned from 35B to almost 100B without any development (other than stuffing of the pockets of those democratically elected leaders). What has the military done?

 

[Knight_Rider]

Tell me how has the military impeded the democratically elected leaders from developing robust economical policies and growing the economy in the last 10 years. Our foreign debt ballooned from 35B to almost 100B without any development (other than stuffing of the pockets of those democratically elected leaders). What has the military done?

No, figure it out yourself.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Grandparents were all indian

Thankfully they made the decision to leav that hellhole. I send prayers their way everyday

I ve been to India to visit relatives and can tell you that despite all the news in media ‘Urdu speakers’ are better off there than in Karachi. Its a different story if you have the right ‘Domicile’.

 

[Slog]

I ve been to India to visit relatives and can tell you that despite all the news in media ‘Urdu speakers’ are better off there than in Karachi. Its a different story if you have the right ‘Domicile’.

Lol Urdu speakers are definitely not better off in India. Families which were economic powerhouses pre-partition are reduced to being paupers

 

[Technics 1210]

Tell me how has the military impeded the democratically elected leaders from developing robust economical policies and growing the economy in the last 10 years. Our foreign debt ballooned from 35B to almost 100B without any development (other than stuffing of the pockets of those democratically elected leaders). What has the military done?

You've got him.

Recipients of corruption will never turn grass on the democratically elected leaders whom have supported their existence!

 

[cric_man]

No, figure it out yourself.

Thats not how it works buddy. You made the assertion tat military is the cause of all out ills. It is upto you to prove it or don't gaslight.

 

[Technics 1210]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

How can you call yourself a patriot after wanting Indian jets to bomb Pakistani schoolchildren? Most nations would take 1 overseas patriot who defends his/her nation over 10 residents who constantly spread hate of their nation and are always siding with the enemy. Im sure you'd agree.

You are joking right? He actually wanted this?

 

[Pakistanian]

I ve been to India to visit relatives and can tell you that despite all the news in media ‘Urdu speakers’ are better off there than in Karachi. Its a different story if you have the right ‘Domicile’.

All the indian muslims I meet in America come from poorer backgroungs than all the Karachiite Pakistanis I meet here. I feel like Karachiites are more global and educated than Indian Muslims who are mostly from smaller/interior cities, it makes sense. It's like comparing a Torontonian to some dude from Fargo, North Dakota.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Interesting stories all that of which from pre partition during British Raj/India. During the British-India people were part of one country. I have no such stories but I got to know one of my grandparents side of the family originated from Afghanistan and were pashtun descent.

 

[Mamoon]

Tell me how has the military destroyed the economy is the last 10 years where we went from an external debt burden of ~ 35 Billion USD to 100 Billion USD and exports dropping precipitously?

The only tangible development phase 1960-65 were all development markers moved up significantly was under a military dictator. And the paragon of democracy in Pakistan aka ZAB presided over the destruction of educational institutions, healthy banking & shipping sectors due to disastrous nationalization policies.

The politicians that you are blaming for our economic decline were launched by the military itself to serve their designs. As long as the likes of Nawaz were willing to do their bidding, his corruption was not a problem. The military does not care about whose corrupt or who isn't - they only care about who is willing to dance to their tunes.

Nawaz's decline started in 1999 when he negotiated to end the Kargil War and cut short Pakistan's humiliation. It was a suicide by our military, and Commando Musharraf (who is now too scared to return to the country unlike Nawaz), was too proud to accept defeat. That is when the military plotted to throw him out of power.

In 2013, Nawaz was once again aided by them to come into power because there was no chance of PPP winning after 2008-2012, and Imran had not become a boot polisher by then. At that time, he thought he could win the election without Army's help, and his criticism of our Army is still on record.

As soon as soon as he realised that he cannot come into power without their help, Nawaz was conveniently ousted. Panama Leaks was just a convenient excuse - even had the leaks not emerged, Nawaz would have been ousted to install Imran as the new PM, who is today playing the same role that Nawaz played in the 90's.

At the moment, Bilawal is starting to emerge as a strong opposition leader. In 2023 or maybe 2027, if Bilawal starts pandering to the men in boots, it will be Imran's turn to get ousted. All the cases that he is running away from now, the foreign funding/embezzlement etc. cases will be used to remove him. In fact, Article 62-63 that was used to sack Nawaz as PM is already applicable on Imran because of the Sita White episode and because he has understated his assets to pay less tax. However, it is not being used against him now because having him in power at the moment is in the interests of the military.

The point is, if the military wants to get rid of Imran, they already have plenty of material on their hands to oust him, and that material right now is being filed in GHQ and it will be used against him when the time is right. Our army is nothing but a big bully.

Speaking of the so-called economic development during military dictatorship especially during the reign of Gen. Ayub, we need to understand that the economic boom during their reigns has come at a massive cost. They were essentially bribed by the Pentagon to fight their wars - Gen. Ayub and Gen. Zia in the Cold War, and Commando Mush in WOT. As a payment for their service, we received a lot of funding and aid for the U.S. Government that were used to boost the economy.

However, relying on bribes and aids is not an optimal method for economic development. Pakistan needs to develop modern industries like India has - we need to improve our exports and focus on industries like IT, auto and pharma. Unfortunately, that is not possible as long as we don't get our military out of the economy.

As far as Gen. Ayub is concerned, it is indeed true that Pakistan experienced considerable manufacturing growth during his tenure. As I stated in another thread the other day, The industrial growth under Gen. Ayub is only part of the story. He is one of the worst leaders Pakistan has ever had. His capitalist policies promoted income inequality and resulted in a few tycoons controlling the majority of the resources and industries.

This eventually led to Bhutto nationalising industries (not justifying his decision, merely explaining it). Gen. Ayub also ruined the political system of Pakistan and paved the way for the military to control the country. Without his legacy, there would be no Zia and Musharraf.

Furthermore, his witch-hunt against Fatimah Jinnah, rigging the 1965 election as well as discriminating against East Pakistan did immense long-term damage to the nation. Besides, if Pakistani industries were doing so well, why was he so reliant on Pentagon’s aid? He was a vile man who has done more long-term damage to Pakistan than any leader.

 

[Mamoon]

Dammit, now you've reminded me of an Indian episode even more embarrassing than Sarfraz' tiddy Pakistan cricket team. I was never serious about the British Indian thing, I'm leaving that to Mamoon after all. I will revisit this subject in 2025 when India's predicted world rule era has begun!

India will never rule the world. A country with 1.3 billion people and a lot of poverty cannot be a superpower. It is working for China because they are homogenous and communist. However, India is far, far ahead of Pakistan and will remain so. The Pakistani delusions of overtaking India will never come to fruition as long as the military is running the country.

 

[MenInG]

Thread is not about military etc

Have the decency to answer what the thread starter asked for and stick to that.

 

[Mamoon]

The army has also defended Pakistan and recently the air force made India look a complete idiotic nation. If it wasn't for the armed forces of Pakistan, you would be licking the boots of Indian soldiers but perhaps you would like this.

For all their big talk and propaganda, our military has not defeated India in a single, full-scale war. Secondly, they have not been able to win or free a single inch of J&K since 1947. In fact, the AJK that they now proudly rule was won for them by the FATA tribals whom they have butchered and treated like animals over the years.

Our military has hampered economic growth, they have weakened democracy and political institutions, they have cost Pakistan its eastern half and have successfully alienated FATA and Balochistan. Furthermore, they have allowed terrorism to flourish in Pakistan to serve their designs, and when it gets out of hand, they use public money to wage wars against them. In short, no institution has harmed Pakistan more than its own army.

Anyway, my last post on the army in this thread. The mods wish is our command.

 

[Mamoon]

Your standard of living is one that is based on materialism.

My standard of living is based on ground realities that you are running away from. Compared to Pakistan, the UK has a higher GDP per capita, lower unemployment, less poverty, lower crime rate, lower infant mortality rate. The UK also ranks much higher than Pakistan on the Human Development Index. Furthermore, the Pakistani rupee is now worth less than the Bangladeshi taka. I can go on and on and on. That is why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan.

I will call you a sham patriot because not only do you spend most of your life degrading and insulting Pakistan (which is the opposite of patriotism), but you have the gall to label expat Pakistanis unpatriotic.

I cannot be a sham patriot because I am not a patriot in the first place. You cannot be a sham X when you are not X. And yes, I do have the gall to label expat Pakistanis sham patriots - the expat Pakistanis who claim that Pakistan has a better standard of living than the country they are currently working in, but yet for some reason, refuse to come back.

You do not fit into any definition of patriot. You yourself have stated above you do not care about Pakistan. Call it copy and paste, but definitions in dictionaries are meant to be non-ambiguous, and not your 500 word essay explanations which amount to insecurity.

I agree, I do not fit into any definition of a patriot because I am not one. The only insecurity that I see is on your front. You claim that Pakistan has a better standard of living in the UK, yet, you are unwilling to resign from your job in UK's telecom industry and come back to serve Pakistan. Deep down, you know that you are an armchair patriot and and you try to talk up Pakistan on the Internet to compensate for your guilt.

Which definition of patriot would you like to see, as I see you have not offered a definition?

You can take your pick on any definition on patriotism and not only will you find that you do not fit into any definition, but ones love of their country is not confined by where they live - your laughable logic is akin to saying children cannot not love their parents if they live in separate countries.

Patriotism is meaningless if it not backed my practically. That is why dictionary definitions are useless. No one cares how much you love Pakistan if you are unwilling to offer your services to Pakistan. What good is love when you are not there when the country needs you. Brain-drain is a massive issue for Pakistan. A qualified telecom professional with UK experience would be a big boost to the Pakistan telecom industry. Please come back and prove your patriotism, but will you? Of course not.

Again, I totally agree with you. I don't fit any definition of patriotism, because I no love or loyalty to this country. My loyalty is only to my ageing parents and my family, I and would live anywhere to be close to them.

Speaking of parents, if you ditch them when they are old and are not there to take care of them, what good is your love? In their old age, parents need you to be around them, to look after their needs. It is your presence that they crave, not the gifts that you send them from abroad.

You're a sham mate, and an insult to the Pakistan flag you pretend to represent; you're a sick minded individual who believes the world, Pakistan in particular, owes you something, when the reality is is not the world that has failed you, but it is you who has failed in this world.

I don't represent Pakistan. I did not choose to be born in this country, it is my bad luck. Pakistan doesn't owe me anything and I don't owe Pakistan anything. I am indebted only to my parents and I only serve them.

Just do us all a favour and change your profile flag to India - you would make more sense then!

I wish I could, but I can't. However, in spite of not having any love for Pakistan, I am still contributing more than sham patriots like you living abroad. By working in Pakistan and providing my services here, I am making a direct contribution. Hence, just like your love from the UK means nothing, neither does my hate, since I am contributing more with my hate than you are contributing with your love.

 

[Pakpak]

All grandparents and their parents and their parents were all born in what we today call Pakistan except my maternal grandmother who was born in India, in a small town near the border. Migrated to Pakistan along with everyone they knew, family friends etc.

 

[Technics 1210]

My standard of living is based on ground realities that you are running away from. Compared to Pakistan, the UK has a higher GDP per capita, lower unemployment, less poverty, lower crime rate, lower infant mortality rate. The UK also ranks much higher than Pakistan on the Human Development Index. Furthermore, the Pakistani rupee is now worth less than the Bangladeshi taka. I can go on and on and on. That is why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan.


I cannot be a sham patriot because I am not a patriot in the first place. You cannot be a sham X when you are not X. And yes, I do have the gall to label expat Pakistanis sham patriots - the expat Pakistanis who claim that Pakistan has a better standard of living than the country they are currently working in, but yet for some reason, refuse to come back.


I agree, I do not fit into any definition of a patriot because I am not one. The only insecurity that I see is on your front. You claim that Pakistan has a better standard of living in the UK, yet, you are unwilling to resign from your job in UK's telecom industry and come back to serve Pakistan. Deep down, you know that you are an armchair patriot and and you try to talk up Pakistan on the Internet to compensate for your guilt.


Patriotism is meaningless if it not backed my practically. That is why dictionary definitions are useless. No one cares how much you love Pakistan if you are unwilling to offer your services to Pakistan. What good is love when you are not there when the country needs you. Brain-drain is a massive issue for Pakistan. A qualified telecom professional with UK experience would be a big boost to the Pakistan telecom industry. Please come back and prove your patriotism, but will you? Of course not.

Again, I totally agree with you. I don't fit any definition of patriotism, because I no love or loyalty to this country. My loyalty is only to my ageing parents and my family, I and would live anywhere to be close to them.

Speaking of parents, if you ditch them when they are old and are not there to take care of them, what good is your love? In their old age, parents need you to be around them, to look after their needs. It is your presence that they crave, not the gifts that you send them from abroad.


I don't represent Pakistan. I did not choose to be born in this country, it is my bad luck. Pakistan doesn't owe me anything and I don't owe Pakistan anything. I am indebted only to my parents and I only serve them.


I wish I could, but I can't. However, in spite of not having any love for Pakistan, I am still contributing more than sham patriots like you living abroad. By working in Pakistan and providing my services here, I am making a direct contribution. Hence, just like your love from the UK means nothing, neither does my hate, since I am contributing more with my hate than you are contributing with your love.

We finally got there, you admit you are not a patriot, and that you hate Pakistan. Based on this fact you have absolutely no grounds to accuse others of being sham patriots because you have no idea what a patriot is yourself. Your assertions respect to my contributions to Pakistan are nothing but baseless assumptions, but whatever helps sleep at night I guess.

Now that we can move on from your sham bravado too, I think you need to stop blaming your parents. You are in Pakistan and are Pakistani because of your parents, and you feel your failure to settle in the West is also because of your parents, in that, you need to look after them, and this is setting you back.

I would say that looking after your parents is an admirable and respectable act of kindness and responsibility, but in your case, you and I know this is also a sham because I bet every night you go to sleep, deep down/subconsciously you blame your parents for holding you back and as a coping mechanism you repeatedly say to yourself you love your parents, you also come on PP to state your love for your parents, and because you cannot take it out on your parents, you take it out on Pakistan, Pakistanis, and Expat Pakistanis instead.

As I said, you will blame other aspects in your life for your failures, but not yourself. You judge life through materialism which pretty much sums you up. Your love for your parents is nothing but a coping mechanism and a sham too.

You’re textbook psychology 101 material Mamoon.

 

[Mamoon]

We finally got there, you admit you are not a patriot, and that you hate Pakistan. Based on this fact you have absolutely no grounds to accuse others of being sham patriots because you have no idea what a patriot is yourself. Your assertions respect to my contributions to Pakistan are nothing but baseless assumptions, but whatever helps sleep at night I guess.

Now that we can move on from your sham bravado too, I think you need to stop blaming your parents. You are in Pakistan and are Pakistani because of your parents, and you feel your failure to settle in the West is also because of your parents, in that, you need to look after them, and this is setting you back.

I would say that looking after your parents is an admirable and respectable act of kindness and responsibility, but in your case, you and I know this is also a sham because I bet every night you go to sleep, deep down/subconsciously you blame your parents for holding you back and as a coping mechanism you repeatedly say to yourself you love your parents, you also come on PP to state your love for your parents, and because you cannot take it out on your parents, you take it out on Pakistan, Pakistanis, and Expat Pakistanis instead.

As I said, you will blame other aspects in your life for your failures, but not yourself. You judge life through materialism which pretty much sums you up. Your love for your parents is nothing but a coping mechanism and a sham too.

You’re textbook psychology 101 material Mamoon.

Admit? I have explicitly stated that I am not patriotic. How can you be forced to admit something that you concede right away without duress?

Also, I don’t blame my parents for my nationality. After all, they didn’t have a choice in being Pakistanis either. I love my parents not because they are perfect people, but because they gave me good education and didn’t impose any ideologies on me. They have no issues with my lack of patriotism, even if they feel differently. I feel I owe them my care and kindness in their old age.

Anyway, if you think my care for my parents is a sham, so be it. I hope you are not projecting your failings on me and your parents are not living a lonely life in Pakistan, while their patriotic son is working in the UK. That would be a shame.

 

[Technics 1210]

Admit? I have explicitly stated that I am not patriotic. How can you be forced to admit something that you concede right away without duress?

Also, I don’t blame my parents for my nationality. After all, they didn’t have a choice in being Pakistanis either. I love my parents not because they are perfect people, but because they gave me good education and didn’t impose any ideologies on me. They have no issues with my lack of patriotism, even if they feel differently. I feel I owe them my care and kindness in their old age.

Anyway, if you think my care for my parents is a sham, so be it. I hope you are not projecting your failings on me and your parents are not living a lonely life in Pakistan, while their patriotic son is working in the UK. That would be a shame.

Quality of education is subjective. Anyone can memorize for degrees etc, but the true test of an education is the application of knowledge in life. Studying at a top university or for a top degree doesn't make one a decent person. Given your persistent pessimism, hatred, negativity, and depressive state, what you are clearly missing in life is the state of peaceful happiness. You see, good parenting isn't just a about providing children with an education, or not imposing ideologies, it is also about nurturing a child's mindset and teaching a child the necessary skills required to appreciate and enjoy life - aspects which you quite frankly lack.

I hope one day you will find happiness in your life because you are living proof that materialism, whether it be money, internet connection, or a HD TV subscription, are overrated aspects in life, but one thing is for sure, the hate festering inside you will one day consume you, if it hasn't already.

 

[Mamoon]

Quality of education is subjective. Anyone can memorize for degrees etc, but the true test of an education is the application of knowledge in life. Studying at a top university or for a top degree doesn't make one a decent person. Given your persistent pessimism, hatred, negativity, and depressive state, what you are clearly missing in life is the state of peaceful happiness. You see, good parenting isn't just a about providing children with an education, or not imposing ideologies, it is also about nurturing a child's mindset and teaching a child the necessary skills required to appreciate and enjoy life - aspects which you quite frankly lack.

I hope one day you will find happiness in your life because you are living proof that materialism, whether it be money, internet connection, or a HD TV subscription, are overrated aspects in life, but one thing is for sure, the hate festering inside you will one day consume you, if it hasn't already.

Yes it is subjective, but they did what they could with whatever they had. I have studied from the best institutes of my city, and I couldn't have asked for more. I am quite content with my state of mind because I like to think and to come to my own conclusions instead of allowing myself to act like sheep and be easily brainwashed by mass propaganda.

I am content with my life, but it is not normal for life to be perfect. I don't have any major regrets at this point, and I hope things don't change in the future. In terms of materialism, I think you need to look in the mirror. You were the one who claim that the standard of living in Pakistan is better than the UK because rich people can live a comfortable life. That is a pathetic, materialistic outlook. I on the other hand gave you hard, cold facts on why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan. I am done discussing my personal life though.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes it is subjective, but they did what they could with whatever they had. I have studied from the best institutes of my city, and I couldn't have asked for more. I am quite content with my state of mind because I like to think and to come to my own conclusions instead of allowing myself to act like sheep and be easily brainwashed by mass propaganda.

I am content with my life, but it is not normal for life to be perfect. I don't have any major regrets at this point, and I hope things don't change in the future. In terms of materialism, I think you need to look in the mirror. You were the one who claim that the standard of living in Pakistan is better than the UK because rich people can live a comfortable life. That is a pathetic, materialistic outlook. I on the other hand gave you hard, cold facts on why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan. I am done discussing my personal life though.

Yeah, keep saying this to yourself.

You do have one major regret, by your own admission, which is affecting your life - you are a Pakistani.

I also claimed quality of life is subjective, and doesn't depend on internet connections or TV subscriptions like you claimed - you can look it up, but as it has been proven, your arguments and claims serve only one purpose - coping mechanisms, because if you think bandwidth of internet connections is hard facts, then you need a refund on your education.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah, keep saying this to yourself.

You do have one major regret, by your own admission, which is affecting your life - you are a Pakistani.

I also claimed quality of life is subjective, and doesn't depend on internet connections or TV subscriptions like you claimed - you can look it up, but as it has been proven, your arguments and claims serve only one purpose - coping mechanisms, because if you think bandwidth of internet connections is hard facts, then you need a refund on your education.

Let me post the hard facts again that you have conveniently ignored multiple times.

"the UK has a higher GDP per capita, lower unemployment, less poverty, lower crime rate, lower infant mortality rate. The UK also ranks much higher than Pakistan on the Human Development Index. Furthermore, the Pakistani rupee is now worth less than the Bangladeshi taka. I can go on and on and on. That is why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan."

None of the above is subjective.

As far as regret is concerned, you cannot regret something that was not in your control. That is why I consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani.

 

[Technics 1210]

Let me post the hard facts again that you have conveniently ignored multiple times.

"the UK has a higher GDP per capita, lower unemployment, less poverty, lower crime rate, lower infant mortality rate. The UK also ranks much higher than Pakistan on the Human Development Index. Furthermore, the Pakistani rupee is now worth less than the Bangladeshi taka. I can go on and on and on. That is why the UK has a higher standard of living than Pakistan."

None of the above is subjective.

Higher GDP per capita is subjective because it doesn't mean a civilian has that much money, this is why poverty in India still exists.

Lower Unemployment is subjective, because of the way unemployment is calculated. In the UK, seeking for a job is counted as employed as are Zero contract hours.

India has more people in poverty than Pakistan, has more illiterate people compared to Pakistan, but you think India is far far ahead of Pakistan.

Stats can be twisted to suit any narrative.

I could go on and on, but again standard of living is subjective. You are proof of this. You use Internet connections and TV subscriptions as a measure, yet some people prefer to be disconnected from the media to enjoy a higher standard of life.

As far as regret is concerned, you cannot regret something that was not in your control. That is why I consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani.

Doesn't change the fact you said you regret being a Pakistani.

The story of your life. Lucky, or unlucky.

 

[Mamoon]

Higher GDP per capita is subjective because it doesn't mean a civilian has that much money, this is why poverty in India still exists.

You don't understand what subjective means. Anything backed by data is not subjective. Pakistan GDP per Capita (2018) is around $1,471, while UK's GDP per Capita (2018) is around $42,000, roughly 28 times greater than Pakistan's. There is nothing subjective about that. You cannot argue that a country with 28 times greater GDP per Capita has an inferior standard of living. That is nonsense.

India's GDP per Capita (2018) was around $2,000 which makes sense. They are better than Pakistan, but nowhere near the UK.

Lower Unemployment is subjective, because of the way unemployment is calculated. In the UK, seeking for a job is counted as employed as are Zero contract hours.

Pakistan's population is growing rapidly compared to the UK, and it also has greater poverty. Hence, the rate of unemployment is also higher.

India has more people in poverty than Pakistan, has more illiterate people compared to Pakistan, but you think India is far far ahead of Pakistan.

India beats Pakistan on most metrics, that is why it is far head of Pakistan. However, India will never be a superpower unless they can control their population growth.

Stats can be twisted to suit any narrative.

Which is what you tried to do when you argued that the unemployment in the UK cannot be compared to the unemployment in Pakistan because the former calculates it differently.

I could go on and on, but again standard of living is subjective.

You can ramble on and on for years, but you will make zero ground, because your argument is absurd and not backed by facts. Even if you try to prove that Pakistan has a better standard of living than the UK for the rest of your life, you will not succeed.

You are proof of this. You use Internet connections and TV subscriptions as a measure, yet some people prefer to be disconnected from the media to enjoy a higher standard of life.

My measure of standard of living is the hard, cold data that is giving you the jitters, and these are the standard metrics of measuring standard of living as well. Internet connections and HD TV subscriptions are basic forms of entertainment, and if your country has a higher standard of living (because of the hard, cold data that is giving you the jitters), you will be able to provide these services to your population.

In 2019, Pakistan Television Network still doesn't have an HD channel, and we are relying on private broadcasters to provide HD service.

Doesn't change the fact you said you regret being a Pakistani.

The story of your life. Lucky, or unlucky.

Unlucky yes, but I don't regret anything because it wasn't my choice.

 

[Technics 1210]

You don't understand what subjective means. Anything backed by data is not subjective. Pakistan GDP per Capita (2018) is around $1,471, while UK's GDP per Capita (2018) is around $42,000, roughly 28 times greater than Pakistan's. There is nothing subjective about that. You cannot argue that a country with 28 times greater GDP per Capita has an inferior standard of living. That is nonsense.

India's GDP per Capita (2018) was around $2,000 which makes sense. They are better than Pakistan, but nowhere near the UK.



Pakistan's population is growing rapidly compared to the UK, and it also has greater poverty. Hence, the rate of unemployment is also higher.



India beats Pakistan on most metrics, that is why it is far head of Pakistan. However, India will never be a superpower unless they can control their population growth.



Which is what you tried to do when you argued that the unemployment in the UK cannot be compared to the unemployment in Pakistan because the former calculates it differently.



You can ramble on and on for years, but you will make zero ground, because your argument is absurd and not backed by facts. Even if you try to prove that Pakistan has a better standard of living than the UK for the rest of your life, you will not succeed.

My measure of standard of living is the hard, cold data that is giving you the jitters, and these are the standard metrics of measuring standard of living as well. Internet connections and HD TV subscriptions are basic forms of entertainment, and if your country has a higher standard of living (because of the hard, cold data that is giving you the jitters), you will be able to provide these services to your population.

In 2019, Pakistan Television Network still doesn't have an HD channel, and we are relying on private broadcasters to provide HD service.

Unlucky yes, but I don't regret anything because it wasn't my choice.

I have just demonstrated how facts and figures are subjective and have shattered your nonsensical argument. I do not not need to prove anything, and neither am I trying too.

Your weak argument on measuring living standards is not based on hard data, but is based on the flawed application of data. A higher GDP per capita doesn't mean anything without context; and context is everything. You tried the same tactics with taxation and learned a lesson there too. Just because the GDP/Capita is higher, doesn't mean quality of life is better - FACT.

GDP/Capita is based on the population size, and by your delusional thinking, Liechtenstein has the best economy and quality of life in the world because it's GDP/Capita is the highest in the world. Delusional.

You are just repeating yourself over and over again, I do not intend to repeat myself when it is clear numbers and quality are both subjective, and I am not the only one who agrees.

Then again a guy who sees life as either lucky or unlucky, will never understand context.

Oh by the way, UK also relies on private broadcasters for HD services too, other than the BBC which does not even broadcast full HD bandwidth.

 

[Syed1]

Thread hijacked by usual suspects

 

[pillionrider]

Grandparents were all indian

Thankfully they made the decision to leav that hellhole. I send prayers their way everyday

Who knows... With a little bit of luck your grandchildren too will be sending prayers your way for leaving Pakistan. All the best

 

[pillionrider]

Mother from Karachi, father from Bhopal.

Born in Bhopal, but moved to Karachi a long time ago.

If it's not too personal, would be interesting to know how and why your family moved to Pakistan (given the patriarchal nature of the subcontinent).

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Both my parents were born in India. Following several world cup humiliations and being represented by a Teletubby as captain of the cricket team, I am considering switching loyalties and calling myself a British Indian.

I am fed up of seeing wannabe Indians like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] trying to steal the limelight when I have a much more legitimate claim to be the real thing.

I like Sarfi but that gave me a chuckle .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India will never rule the world. A country with 1.3 billion people and a lot of poverty cannot be a superpower. It is working for China because they are homogenous and communist. However, India is far, far ahead of Pakistan and will remain so. The Pakistani delusions of overtaking India will never come to fruition as long as the military is running the country.

India being far ahead of Pakistan might mean something to you, it means nothing to me. I was admiring their cricket, but now you are talking about quality of life, all I see on my television is muddy streets teeming with cycles, people and trash. If you want to have aspirations why would you use India as a metric?


Like I said, maybe we can come back in 2025 when westerners will be flocking to live the luxury highlife promised in many youtube videos.

 

[Slog]

Who knows... With a little bit of luck your grandchildren too will be sending prayers your way for leaving Pakistan. All the best

I’m here for studies don’t worry. And yea US is a great advanced economy so it’s fine. I didn’t flee to escape a hellhole like my muslim forefathers did from UP.

 

[JaDed]

The thread started with a negative tone and mods made made a positive one and its again gone to negative one, just imagine you are meeting the people in real life in a support group and this is todays topic as in thread, is that how would talk?

Or even just having conversation with others in real life, you would jus acknowledge the story ,family history and not make negative judgments.

 

[cric_man]

The politicians that you are blaming for our economic decline were launched by the military itself to serve their designs. As long as the likes of Nawaz were willing to do their bidding, his corruption was not a problem. The military does not care about whose corrupt or who isn't - they only care about who is willing to dance to their tunes.

Nawaz's decline started in 1999 when he negotiated to end the Kargil War and cut short Pakistan's humiliation. It was a suicide by our military, and Commando Musharraf (who is now too scared to return to the country unlike Nawaz), was too proud to accept defeat. That is when the military plotted to throw him out of power.

In 2013, Nawaz was once again aided by them to come into power because there was no chance of PPP winning after 2008-2012, and Imran had not become a boot polisher by then. At that time, he thought he could win the election without Army's help, and his criticism of our Army is still on record.

As soon as soon as he realised that he cannot come into power without their help, Nawaz was conveniently ousted. Panama Leaks was just a convenient excuse - even had the leaks not emerged, Nawaz would have been ousted to install Imran as the new PM, who is today playing the same role that Nawaz played in the 90's.

At the moment, Bilawal is starting to emerge as a strong opposition leader. In 2023 or maybe 2027, if Bilawal starts pandering to the men in boots, it will be Imran's turn to get ousted. All the cases that he is running away from now, the foreign funding/embezzlement etc. cases will be used to remove him. In fact, Article 62-63 that was used to sack Nawaz as PM is already applicable on Imran because of the Sita White episode and because he has understated his assets to pay less tax. However, it is not being used against him now because having him in power at the moment is in the interests of the military.

The point is, if the military wants to get rid of Imran, they already have plenty of material on their hands to oust him, and that material right now is being filed in GHQ and it will be used against him when the time is right. Our army is nothing but a big bully.

Speaking of the so-called economic development during military dictatorship especially during the reign of Gen. Ayub, we need to understand that the economic boom during their reigns has come at a massive cost. They were essentially bribed by the Pentagon to fight their wars - Gen. Ayub and Gen. Zia in the Cold War, and Commando Mush in WOT. As a payment for their service, we received a lot of funding and aid for the U.S. Government that were used to boost the economy.

However, relying on bribes and aids is not an optimal method for economic development. Pakistan needs to develop modern industries like India has - we need to improve our exports and focus on industries like IT, auto and pharma. Unfortunately, that is not possible as long as we don't get our military out of the economy.

As far as Gen. Ayub is concerned, it is indeed true that Pakistan experienced considerable manufacturing growth during his tenure. As I stated in another thread the other day, The industrial growth under Gen. Ayub is only part of the story. He is one of the worst leaders Pakistan has ever had. His capitalist policies promoted income inequality and resulted in a few tycoons controlling the majority of the resources and industries.

This eventually led to Bhutto nationalising industries (not justifying his decision, merely explaining it). Gen. Ayub also ruined the political system of Pakistan and paved the way for the military to control the country. Without his legacy, there would be no Zia and Musharraf.

Furthermore, his witch-hunt against Fatimah Jinnah, rigging the 1965 election as well as discriminating against East Pakistan did immense long-term damage to the nation. Besides, if Pakistani industries were doing so well, why was he so reliant on Pentagon’s aid? He was a vile man who has done more long-term damage to Pakistan than any leader.

So tell me again how the military stopped Zardari & Nawaz Sharif from improving Pakistan's economy, education & health sectors? Did The Army pilfer make them not develop the health sector or initiate land reforms or improve the educational institutions? Oh I forgot about the peeli taxi and laptop schemes!!!!

 

[Khan12]

My Grand parents were from Goa where they had a very successful business they left everything and moved to Pakistan. After losing everything my granddad served in the Army for the rest of his life. I pray for them and their move to Pakistan 5 times a day .

 

[MenInG]

Would love to hear more accounts from posters

 

[ElRaja]

all my ancestors are as far back as i know are from modern day pakistan, however my genetic make up stated i have some indian gujrati in me.

fwiw have massive respect for the people who made the move during partition, its such a difficult proposition, i often ask myself would i have made the move if i had been in that position.

its also a gross injustice that no real film or mainstream media attempt to portray the horrors people suffered during partition accurately has ever been made, say like it is for conflicts in africa, or europe during the nazi era.