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Pakistan's biggest problem in Test Cricket

mominsaigol

mominsaigol

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Recently I've figured out the biggest problem Pakistan faces in test cricket and why they haven't been able to win a series at home since God knows when.

Yes a lack of skills such as poor bowling, poor batting, poor fielding and poor captaincy are major factors, But the biggest reason is Mentality.

We saw how India Managed to force a result against Bangladesh despite 3 days being rained off, India played attacking cricket and ensured a test victory and gave Bangladesh the minnow treatment they deserve.

Pakistan on the other hand plays every test in hopes of getting a draw. They do not know how to force a result let alone even have a game plan on how to win anymore. No clue on when to declare or even how to structure your innings.

It's why England forced a result last time, and why I firmly believe they'll manage to force a result in their favour now. If not then it's a draw. This side doesn't know how to win test because it simply doesn't wish to win, Only draw.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Mentality doesn't matter if you don't have the skill.

I can go out there thinking I will be Djokovic but I will get mauled on the tennis court every time.
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They had skill against the likes of NZ and Bangladesh.

In the 2nd test they had Bangladesh on the ropes however they dont know how to capitalise. No pressure put on das lol.

In the first Test they thought they were being cute on trying to force a result by Declaring early knowing full well the best way to force a result would have been to reach 500+, then declare and then put bamgaldesh in a vulnerable position.

Against australia and England top sides their are outmatched. Not current England though. Current England has rubbish bowling but they are still ahead
 
emranabbas said:
I believe the main issue is that many of these players have a very low IQ
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Again you can have very low IQ and still be skillful at something.

Watch Kodi Lee on youtube and his audition.

If you are skillful with low IQ, you can still make it.

However, being overrated and deliberately "overestimating someone's abilities" is something that can't be overcome.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If you insist someone has skill despite losing series after series I guess there is only one way to look at it.

They were presumed to be skillful.
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I'm not saying Pakistan isn't weak.

In terms of skill, Bangladesh had better pacers and better batters.

However any team regardless of strength would have captilised on the 2nd test when they had Bangladesh on the ropes. Literally any team.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that hasan mahmud and Rana cannot bat so Literally just bowl to them and bring fielders up to prevent das from singles cause das clearly does not wish to loft.

The fact that they Literally allowed das to walk all over them is a symbol of poor captaincy and very very poor mindset from the rest of the team.

I saw that game ball to ball, All das was doing was blocking, Occasionally hitting a 4 and taking a single of the last ball cause it was that easy. Occasionally he'd take a single and entrust mahmud to play a dot on the final delivery
 
mominsaigol said:
I'm not saying Pakistan isn't weak.

In terms of skill, Bangladesh had better pacers and better batters.

However any team regardless of strength would have captilised on the 2nd test when they had Bangladesh on the ropes. Literally any team.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that hasan mahmud and Rana cannot bat so Literally just bowl to them and bring fielders up to prevent das from singles cause das clearly does not wish to loft.

The fact that they Literally allowed das to walk all over them is a symbol of poor captaincy and very very poor mindset from the rest of the team.

I saw that game ball to ball, All das was doing was blocking, Occasionally hitting a 4 and taking a single of the last ball cause it was that easy. Occasionally he'd take a single and entrust mahmud to play a dot on the final delivery
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So that isn't mentality.

That is the skill Pakistan lack.

They lack the skill of "killer instinct" and Liton's was "more skilled at exploiting Pakistan's killer instinct".

Mentality is what Shan demonstrated in 1st innings.

You can have positive mentality despite being extremely limited in skill and sometimes it works.

But do you think Shan will score 150 every time with positive mentality?

No.

Because his primary skill (batting) is so poor, that mentality is secondary.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Again you can have very low IQ and still be skillful at something.

Watch Kodi Lee on youtube and his audition.

If you are skillful with low IQ, you can still make it.

However, being overrated and deliberately "overestimating someone's abilities" is something that can't be overcome.
Click to expand...
Again you can have very low IQ and still be skillful at something.

Low IQ doesnt mean Low Intelligence in terms of game awareness innthe same way Mike Tyson only has an iq of 78 which is insanely low however his understanding of boxing is what puts him apart. If he was just some strong idiot with zero boxing fundamentals then no matter how strong he is, a professional boxer would knock him out. Anyone who saw Mike tyson fight would know he had one of the best defences. He would throw a punch when their was an opening, He wasn't a moron who wailed unnecessarily.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Again you can have very low IQ and still be skillful at something.

Watch Kodi Lee on youtube and his audition.

If you are skillful with low IQ, you can still make it.

However, being overrated and deliberately "overestimating someone's abilities" is something that can't be overcome.
Click to expand...
You can have all the skills you want but if a bowler who can't use his head and deceive the batsmen then he is just rubbish ie shaheen

You can have all the talent in the world, but if a batsman can't use his mind to outthink the bowlers and adapt to the game, then he's useless —for example, someone like Babar.
 
mominsaigol said:
Again you can have very low IQ and still be skillful at something.

Low IQ doesnt mean Low Intelligence in terms of game awareness innthe same way Mike Tyson only has an iq of 78 which is insanely low however his understanding of boxing is what puts him apart. If he was just some strong idiot with zero boxing fundamentals then no matter how strong he is, a professional boxer would knock him out. Anyone who saw Mike tyson fight would know he had one of the best defences. He would throw a punch when their was an opening, He wasn't a moron who wailed unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Tyson was good at boxing so his mentality could be positive.

If Tyson sucked at boxing, his mentality would be irrelevant.

Our cricketers are simply low standards.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Exactly.

Tyson was good at boxing so his mentality could be positive.

If Tyson sucked at boxing, his mentality would be irrelevant.

Our cricketers are simply low standards.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry I was responding to @emranabbas about the low IQ =/= Low game awareness and lack of skills I accidentally responded to you. Yes I agree with both of you.
 
emranabbas said:
You can have all the skills you want but if a bowler who can't use his head and deceive the batsmen then he is just rubbish ie shaheen

You can have all the talent in the world, but if a batsman can't use his mind to outthink the bowlers and adapt to the game, then he's useless —for example, someone like Babar.
Click to expand...
@Dr_Bassim

Both of you are correct, However I still stand by my mentality point.

Yes skills are lacking but theirs also no desire. Every game is played for a draw or a loss.

Where is the passion? The intensity? The drive? The never give up attitude? Most of Mike tyson's opponent were also woefully outmatched but many if em kept going? Some even willing to die in the ring rather then throwing in the towel?
 
Disagree. Main issue is skill. And especially in 2 aspects:
1. Top quality spinner
2. Fast bowler good in long format, ability to reverse.

We used to have both things in arsenal in the past that have been severely lacking. Spin ever-since Yasir Shah faded away. And fast bowling pretty much since Amir/Asif/Abbas left. Shaheen was good when he initially came but quickly faded away especially post injury.
 
mon858 said:
Disagree. Main issue is skill. And especially in 2 aspects:
1. Top quality spinner
2. Fast bowler good in long format, ability to reverse.

We used to have both things in arsenal in the past that have been severely lacking. Spin ever-since Yasir Shah faded away. And fast bowling pretty much since Amir/Asif/Abbas left. Shaheen was good when he initially came but quickly faded away especially post injury.
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Didn't Misbah's no 1 rank test side have good pacers as well? This side is rubbish.
 
Pakistan's main problem is a lack of quality spinners and a timid batting approach, playing cricket of the 90s.

We over-hype a player too much and keep on playing him until he runs out of gas himself or gets injured. Pakistan team is not brave. SIMPLE
 
In modern day cricket, Cricketing Smarts is an essential skill to have. Ofcourse your primary skill will always be batting, bowling or keeping but if you want to truly succeed at the elite level Cricketing smarts is very necessary along with top notch primary skills. India has been fortunate to have many such players who have both aspects covered.​

Ashwin is a great example of a very cerebral cricketer who is always thinking how he can get the best out of his primary and secondary cricketing skills. Incredible cricketer ! Similarly MSD.
 
Lack of fitness of the bowlers is the primary concern for Pakistani test players.
The current lot are just fit enough for short burst of 4 overs of T20 overs.
Too much franchise cricket has ruined their mindset, T20 bowling requires innovation ball after ball while Test bowling needs consistency and patience. Pakistani cricketers have walked away from the longer format mindset for quite sometime now.
Without the WTC, I suspect PCB might not even organize 5 tests in a year.
 
Pakistan cannot win a test match at home or away unless they produce high quality fast bowlers who can bowl long spells consistently at 140+ and couple of spinners with good variation. The current bowlers are toothless, they are not able take wickets at their home conditions where they have learned their entire cricket. The fast bowlers are trundlers, their maximum capacity is 4 overs, and the spinners are like bowling machine with no variation or creativity
 
Need to bump this thread as I still firmly believe fitness is a major issue as well.

Abrar proved it today
 
We've blamed the selectors, the PCB, the chairmen, the coaches and everyone else - but how about accepting that the players are simply not good enough.

In my opinion the reality is that the current crop of players may think they are world-beaters, but they are bang average cricketers who will perform now and then. Most are overrated, have high opinions of themselves and are nowhere near good enough.
 
Truly missing MisYou after another pathetic second innings collapse.

Like Saj said the players have high opinions of themselves with little justification. Us fans hype them up after a couple of decent performances and they regress when the analysts work out their weaknesses. I would axe most of the 11 for the second test expect for Salman, Saud and Amir Jamal.

The rest can get lost, what more have we got to lose?
 
mominsaigol said:
Recently I've figured out the biggest problem Pakistan faces in test cricket and why they haven't been able to win a series at home since God knows when.

Yes a lack of skills such as poor bowling, poor batting, poor fielding and poor captaincy are major factors, But the biggest reason is Mentality.

We saw how India Managed to force a result against Bangladesh despite 3 days being rained off, India played attacking cricket and ensured a test victory and gave Bangladesh the minnow treatment they deserve.

Pakistan on the other hand plays every test in hopes of getting a draw. They do not know how to force a result let alone even have a game plan on how to win anymore. No clue on when to declare or even how to structure your innings.

It's why England forced a result last time, and why I firmly believe they'll manage to force a result in their favour now. If not then it's a draw. This side doesn't know how to win test because it simply doesn't wish to win, Only draw.
Click to expand...
Can you pick up the 10 best skilled Cricketers from Sudan who are motivated and 100% mentally switched ON and make them win against India in a Test Match?

No, although mentality matters its the skill set at the end of the day.

Pakistani players have fallen way behind and the International Game has moved on and left them by.

Players are not good enough!
 
Lack of quality spinners, skillfull fast bowlers & used to regular batting collapse in second innings.
 
Our bowlers are not good enough to take advantage of our home conditions.

Low on pace, lack of fitness and lack of new ball or old ball skills.

Why are we surprised here?
 
PakHammer said:
Truly missing MisYou after another pathetic second innings collapse.

Like Saj said the players have high opinions of themselves with little justification. Us fans hype them up after a couple of decent performances and they regress when the analysts work out their weaknesses. I would axe most of the 11 for the second test expect for Salman, Saud and Amir Jamal.

The rest can get lost, what more have we got to lose?
Click to expand...


Rest Of The World: A new player joins the team, performs exceptionally well, and earns praise from the fans. Afterward, the player continues to train diligently to enhance their skills and achieve even greater success.

Pakistanis: A new play player joins the team, plays a few commendable innings, and receives appreciation from the fans. the player believes they've become a superstar and starts making TikToks and Instagram reels to maintain their relevance.
 
Can't win with mediocre trundlers and a spinner who can't spin the ball

Also, you need to play an extra bowler on such flat decks.

Bowling is ridiculously weak
 
emranabbas said:
Rest Of The World: A new player joins the team, performs exceptionally well, and earns praise from the fans. Afterward, the player continues to train diligently to enhance their skills and achieve even greater success.

Pakistanis: A new play player joins the team, plays a few commendable innings, and receives appreciation from the fans. the player believes they've become a superstar and starts making TikToks and Instagram reels to maintain their relevance.
Click to expand...

PSL killed Pakistani cricket.

They want to bowl 4 overs to club level batters, make some tik toks, get money and job done.
 
Is water wet because of Hydrogen or Oxygen? There is a deficit in talent, fitness and attitude and they are all contributing to defeats. Fixing just one will not radically change results. And they are not completely independent factors either. Hard to have a sustained champion mindset when you have a mediocre skill set, as has been pointed out above. We need a factory reset and start bottoms up and build on the next generation.
 
I personally feel that the players, though not as capable as the earlier generations, can perform a lot better, if given a clear direction. Some points as to why I feel the current crop has been poorly managed:
  1. Consistent change in board management: Pakistan have been awful here to say the least. So many board changes, coach changes, selector changes and what not. This has "ensured" inconsistency in decision making, mindset and selections. Every new chairman brings with him his own team, and they select the THEIR team. A lot needs to be done at the grassroot level, but it seems every chairman is himself playing a T20 with the chair
  2. Changes in captain: This, though a result of changes in the management has hurt Pakistan cricket the most. They do not have a leader. Everyone believes they can be a captain tomorrow and the players are generally power hungry. This distracts them from concentrating on their core competency, either batting or bowling. The recent changes in captaincy has become a laughing stock, with captains being selected without merit
  3. There seems to be no plan for players. The current lot is amazingly unfit. Whether it is a result of no workload management, injury management or whatever - they just cannot play for 5 days. Poor domestic structure is to be blamed, which is very unclear, and runs without a plan.
I am not defending players completely, but the management is a much bigger evil. It will take years of effort and toil, and clear direction for Pakistan cricket to become competitive again. But again, Pakistan Cricket Management needs to find a way to be consistent, which seems like a distant dream
 
Mentality is a big part of it. The rookies England have picked so early have no right to be winning games for their country with relative inexperience, but they are coached and captained by a very forward thinking regime who are ruthless with the execution of their strategy.

The PCB are an incompetent organisation as a whole, their chairman is a joker and they keep giving opportunities to serial losers. How can Pakistan begin to fight when their so called leader has built a career around failures which he will never be accountable for, his thing is to keep going no matter how many times you fail and then keep failing some more; why would you hire someone like that? the goal will always be to compete or save a game, and not to win.

I accept Pakistan are clueless, but they are not maximising their ability to succeed.
 
mominsaigol said:
Recently I've figured out the biggest problem Pakistan faces in test cricket and why they haven't been able to win a series at home since God knows when.

Yes a lack of skills such as poor bowling, poor batting, poor fielding and poor captaincy are major factors, But the biggest reason is Mentality.

We saw how India Managed to force a result against Bangladesh despite 3 days being rained off, India played attacking cricket and ensured a test victory and gave Bangladesh the minnow treatment they deserve.

Pakistan on the other hand plays every test in hopes of getting a draw. They do not know how to force a result let alone even have a game plan on how to win anymore. No clue on when to declare or even how to structure your innings.

It's why England forced a result last time, and why I firmly believe they'll manage to force a result in their favour now. If not then it's a draw. This side doesn't know how to win test because it simply doesn't wish to win, Only draw.
Click to expand...


Well lets see .... previously It was when it was their turn to bat ... now it is either bat OR bowl and field ... they are truly the Allrounders in failing spectacularly in all disciplines.
 
Five of the nine 600-plus totals in Tests since 2021 have been against Pakistan

vDtM4f9.jpg
 
FearlessRoar said:
Pakistan is already struggling at 20/3 in reply to South Africa's 615 on Day 2 of the 2nd Test.

fWi17HL.png
Click to expand...

That’s awful

Sad to say but Shan Masood has been a let down. Dude is a good chap but just isn’t working for him and Pakistan is suffering as a result.
 
Players lack fitness for a hard 5 day grind. Too much T20 Cricket has made the players soft. Bowlers run out of steam after their first spell and test cricket requires a fast bowler to bowl 7-8 spells per innings and sometimes an 8-10 over spell.
 
There's an extremely good video on youtube which talks about being an expert. I'll try to summarize the crux, a person may drive for 20 years but their overall skill may not increase instead overtime they'll become complacent & lose skill. That's why you don't see average people who drive a lot becoming race car drivers.

Most of the Pak players are in that loop. They may play cricket for 20 years but they won't be experts at it. This is where the inner drive to be better than your own version matters & that's why I rate IK as the best ever athlete that Pak has produced only challenged by Jahangir Khan.

Our players make it to the team, buy into a luxurious life, never upgrade their skill, & just casually float through their career. The last Pak cricketer who became an expert was Younus, he really worked on his spin game but age wasn't at his side so he didn't really became a world great.
 
Averages and all aside, Babar is a class batsman. He’s so much superior to Rizwan in class although Rizwan is more gritty and a true survivor.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
There's an extremely good video on youtube which talks about being an expert. I'll try to summarize the crux, a person may drive for 20 years but their overall skill may not increase instead overtime they'll become complacent & lose skill. That's why you don't see average people who drive a lot becoming race car drivers.

Most of the Pak players are in that loop. They may play cricket for 20 years but they won't be experts at it. This is where the inner drive to be better than your own version matters & that's why I rate IK as the best ever athlete that Pak has produced only challenged by Jahangir Khan.

Our players make it to the team, buy into a luxurious life, never upgrade their skill, & just casually float through their career. The last Pak cricketer who became an expert was Younus, he really worked on his spin game but age wasn't at his side so he didn't really became a world great.
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This requires selectors to be ruthless like in India or Australia and a strong bench needs to be developed where 1-2 players are available to replace ever player in the team. 1-2 bad series and your out which forces players to rectify their flaws and come back strong. Unfortunately Pakistani players are very rarely penalized for poor tournaments and upsets and eventually they know they don't have to worry about losing their spots in the team.
 
Savak said:
This requires selectors to be ruthless like in India or Australia and a strong bench needs to be developed where 1-2 players are available to replace ever player in the team. 1-2 bad series and your out which forces players to rectify their flaws and come back strong. Unfortunately Pakistani players are very rarely penalized for poor tournaments and upsets and eventually they know they don't have to worry about losing their spots in the team.
Click to expand...

I second your suggestion but it also requires an overall culture overhaul. There's a reason why successful societies do good at sports e.g. America as they continue to dominate Olympics & many other sports. Risk aversion is a basic survival instinct & people always take the easy route so a society must ensure that overall risk is lowered before people become more flamboyant.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If you are skillful with low IQ, you can still make it.
Click to expand...

This statement doesn’t make any sense. If you successful as a cricketer, that in itself is evidence that you have a high IQ to play the sport.

Having a high IQ for a sportsperson means to understand the situation and apply yourself accordingly.
 
I think #1 issue for Pakistan in Test is lack of express pace. They need a bowler or two who can bowl at 145+ KMH.
 
A lack of coaching.

Looking at India's bowlers, it's evident they're learning from the very best in the world.
 
I still back what I claimed on my Opening post.

I genuinely believe it's a give up attitude.

Yes don't get me wrong, the pacers are 120KPH trundlers, and the batters aren't anything special and the fielding is comical but theirs a certain level of energy that's missing.

Beside kamran, Saud, Noman and Sajid, None of the others have any energy levels or desire to play test.

The bowlers just wait for things to happen and hope that the opposition makes mistakes or declares and the batters have zero fitness to play long innings and take 100+ leads.

Even in the first test, all those people praising abass and the pacers, yet all I saw was sa giving wickets away and when the tail enders stepped up, Pakistan couldn't do anything.
 
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