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Pakistan's World Test Championship pathway is opening up!

pathway is opened too much that every other team is coming in and destroying the team from inside out:inti
 
geraltofrivia said:
As did this same Australian team that just thumped you. Even they drew against Bangladesh. Sl team who whitewashed you drew against Bangladesh.
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What point are you even trying to make?
We won't lose to Bangladesh if that's what you're asking
 
Rain seems to have muddied the pathway laid out by our learned student of the game, Junaid. Nevertheless. A lot of cricket yet to be played in this test and Karachi should be a straightforward win. Bangla is a forgone conclusion. Everything going according to plan, by and large. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] ?
 
I think it would be NZ Vs ....
There would be quite a few competing for the runner up position.
 
King_Kohli said:
Points awarded for a draw

20 right?
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No, I think 30 as its a two match series so 120 points (Total of every series) is divided into two tests with 60 points/ per test in this scenario.

Draw will give 30 points each to Pak and Srl.
 
Pakistan have very low chances of beating NZ in NZ. NZ are excellent currently and will thrash Pakistan at home.

I think the finals will eventually be between India and Australia.
 
King_Kohli said:
:19:
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Correction bro. As [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] has mentioned in another thread and [MENTION=147715]RyanRyan10[/MENTION] on this thread, ICC have made draw to have less points than overall points available so its 20 for draw and 30 is for a tie.
 
This is a real opportunity for Pakistan. New Zealand only has 1 world class batsmen and 1 world class bowler. England is exactly the same, and Pakistan drew their last 2 Test series there.

lol Taylor, Nichols, Latham, Watling, Wagner are making up numbers i suppose
 
We are not even contenders. We should just focus on becoming a half decent Test team first
 
hur rizvi said:
We are not even contenders. We should just focus on becoming a half decent Test team first
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As long as Misbah is Chief Selector OR Head Coach, let alone both, the only question is whether Pakistan can avoid finishing in Last Place.

My guess is that they will finish 7th. And that means the PCB by appointing Misbah has walked straight into an Indian trap.

There is every possibility that India will (very reasonably) pressure for the introduction of two Five Team divisions, with each team playing the other four Home and Away in a Four Year Cycle.

Pakistan will be relegated under Misbah, as follows:

Division 1:
India
Australia
England
New Zealand
South Africa

Division 2:
Sri Lanka
West Indies
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Zimbabwe or Afghanistan

The PCB is liable for $750,000 if they sack Misbah early.

But the cost of keeping him will be relegation to Division 2.
 
Junaids said:
As long as Misbah is Chief Selector OR Head Coach, let alone both, the only question is whether Pakistan can avoid finishing in Last Place.

My guess is that they will finish 7th. And that means the PCB by appointing Misbah has walked straight into an Indian trap.

There is every possibility that India will (very reasonably) pressure for the introduction of two Five Team divisions, with each team playing the other four Home and Away in a Four Year Cycle.

Pakistan will be relegated under Misbah, as follows:

Division 1:
India
Australia
England
New Zealand
South Africa

Division 2:
Sri Lanka
West Indies
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Zimbabwe or Afghanistan

The PCB is liable for $750,000 if they sack Misbah early.

But the cost of keeping him will be relegation to Division 2.
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Not going to happen. Don't worry.

Talking about the two divisions.
 
hur rizvi said:
We are not even contenders. We should just focus on becoming a half decent Test team first
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Mesozoic said:
Not going to happen. Don't worry.

Talking about the two divisions.
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Junaids said:
As long as Misbah is Chief Selector OR Head Coach, let alone both, the only question is whether Pakistan can avoid finishing in Last Place.

My guess is that they will finish 7th. And that means the PCB by appointing Misbah has walked straight into an Indian trap.

There is every possibility that India will (very reasonably) pressure for the introduction of two Five Team divisions, with each team playing the other four Home and Away in a Four Year Cycle.

Pakistan will be relegated under Misbah, as follows:

Division 1:
India
Australia
England
New Zealand
South Africa

Division 2:
Sri Lanka
West Indies
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Zimbabwe or Afghanistan

The PCB is liable for $750,000 if they sack Misbah early.

But the cost of keeping him will be relegation to Division 2.
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It strikes me that the Big Three plus NZ plus SA would LOVE the 2 division model. For them it’s a licence to print money and avoid plying the other teams.

They would only need to persuade one of the Division 2 teams to vote for it. If I were Saurav Ganguly I’d be saying to the Afghans “you owe us and we will make it worth your while”.
 
Titan24 said:
Correction bro. As [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] has mentioned in another thread and [MENTION=147715]RyanRyan10[/MENTION] on this thread, ICC have made draw to have less points than overall points available so its 20 for draw and 30 is for a tie.
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Thanks bro
 
Junaids said:
It strikes me that the Big Three plus NZ plus SA would LOVE the 2 division model. For them it’s a licence to print money and avoid plying the other teams.

They would only need to persuade one of the Division 2 teams to vote for it. If I were Saurav Ganguly I’d be saying to the Afghans “you owe us and we will make it worth your while”.
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Help me understand how is BCCI, that survives hand to mouth from ICC largesse, even considered a part of this so-called Big 3? I think you had conclusively demonstrated Pakistan has more economic heft and pull among the public in SENA countries.
 
Hasan123 said:
Junaids has too much faith in an average bunch of players.
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By bunch of players means Misbah-ul-Haq and his defensive team. With Misbah-ul-Haq at helm, we are on the downward to 80s style of cricket can never hope for winning.
 
We don’t have any chance to come to the semis and here we are talking about winning WTC... lol :))
 
Junaids said:
As long as Misbah is Chief Selector OR Head Coach, let alone both, the only question is whether Pakistan can avoid finishing in Last Place.

My guess is that they will finish 7th. And that means the PCB by appointing Misbah has walked straight into an Indian trap.

There is every possibility that India will (very reasonably) pressure for the introduction of two Five Team divisions, with each team playing the other four Home and Away in a Four Year Cycle.

Pakistan will be relegated under Misbah, as follows:

Division 1:
India
Australia
England
New Zealand
South Africa

Division 2:
Sri Lanka
West Indies
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Zimbabwe or Afghanistan

The PCB is liable for $750,000 if they sack Misbah early.

But the cost of keeping him will be relegation to Division 2.
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But to be honest, there is no guarantee that sacking Misbah will ensure that we won't end up on the 7th place anyways.

The players are there for everyone to see.

Either they are world beaters or they aren't.

You don't miraculously change results by changing one man at the helm.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But to be honest, there is no guarantee that sacking Misbah will ensure that we won't end up on the 7th place anyways.

The players are there for everyone to see.

Either they are world beaters or they aren't.

You don't miraculously change results by changing one man at the helm.
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This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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Good response because when I read "You don't miraculously change results by changing one man at the helm", I thought this can be debunked with ease in respect of Misbah.

2013 CT: Misbah's team lost every game, which led to a group stage exit

2017 CT: even a mediocre captain like Sarfraz won the tournament.

Pertinent to note, both tournaments were held in England.
 
topspin said:
Good response because when I read "You don't miraculously change results by changing one man at the helm", I thought this can be debunked with ease in respect of Misbah.

2013 CT: Misbah's team lost every game, which led to a group stage exit

2017 CT: even a mediocre captain like Sarfraz won the tournament.

Pertinent to note, both tournaments were held in England.
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This really is a great example, even both of teams were quite similar - neither had proven match winners and both teams were generally weaker going into the tournament. Leadership and motivation, and in-tournament changes - that really was the major tipping point between those results.
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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This is where I have to disagree - something I wrote in response of your similar post, couple of weeks back, but you didn't respond that time.

There are two terms you have used here - world class & journeyman. Which I agree- about the classification. BUT - in your list of World Class, you have clubbed Kohli-Bumrah; Smith-Cummins, Babar-Rizwan together ...... I guess PP can see what I have done here.

The second term is "Journeyman" - indeed, but some journeyman travels by walking, some by bus, some by aircraft .... as I wrote that time also - leave out top 2-3 players, PAK's back-up players would struggle make some of the top Ranji teams - that's the gap between "journeymen" of traveling by aircraft and walking. You know your cricket much better than trying to feed us the thought of PAK's journeymen being at per with Sharma, Rahne, Agarwal, Jadeja, Ashwin, Shami, Ishant, Saha, KL, Shaw, Kuldeep, Pant ..... really??????

In that scale, we are actually in MUCH better position than Pakistan - even the die hard PAK fan will pick Shakib over Babar, Mushi over Rizwan and you can add Tamim as well, arguably better Test opener than anyone wearing PAK cap since Saeed ..... that makes 8.5 journeymen - should we also expect that selection, coaching & captaincy is the only gap which we need to bridge ...? I guess, I know the answer - our "journeymen' are not that tal*nted .......

Junaids, posters here respect you lot, but have you noticed, most of your responses these days are turning into trolling here, because of your hyper *******sm of PAK's cricket talent? And, by everyday desperation is taking you to new level of low - just hyping PAK talent isn't giving much dividend, so you have gone to put down other countries' players ..... from Arthur's "2nd choice" to Labuschagne vs Shan Masood ......:facepalm: You still didn't learn your lessons from measuring values of runs against SRL, unfortunately.

Keep it realistic man, we are all here PAK cricket fan, even Indians; otherwise none of us would have been surfing in a PAK cricket blog - but you are forcing level headed people without emotional bias here to taunt and expose PCT team & players, which they don't deserve. But, it's human nature - they say, if you want to break relationship - start to over pamper one of them.
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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Outstanding stuff.

Amateurs on this forum, pay attention to these words of a maestro.

Before you quote stats, understand that Pujara will always remain a journeyman while Rizwan starts as a world class talent, as does Babar with his average of 40. Unless you can master this reasoning like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has, you'd have no hope of seeing pathways open.
 
AMSS said:
Outstanding stuff.

Amateurs on this forum, pay attention to these words of a maestro.

Before you quote stats, understand that Pujara will always remain a journeyman while Rizwan starts as a world class talent, as does Babar with his average of 40. Unless you can master this reasoning like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has, you'd have no hope of seeing pathways open.
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My mistake - I even didn't list Pujara among Indian journeymen; guy is that ordinary.
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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Absurd post here.

Just to show how absurd it's to classify so many players from all teams as journeymen, I will compare few jouneymen from just one team, India.

Journeymen batting performance in the last 3 years,

Pujara Avg 49 with 8 tons
Pant Avg 44 with 2 tons
Agarwal avg 67 with 3 tons

Journeymen bowling avg in the last 3 years,

Ashwin 27
Jadeja 24
Shami 22
Sharma 22
Yadav 22
Kuldeep 24
Kumar 20


Now coming back to two world class players in Pakistani team, let's see how they compare in perrformance.

Babar last 3 years avg 35 with 2 tons
Rizwan last 3 years avg 44 with 0 tons


Pakistan simply doesn't have gun players right now and situation of Pakistan is not going to improve by hyping Pakistani players or downplaying good players from other countries. Any team need 5-6 good players who can perform well consistently and then some suppoort players. Babar is the only good player in Pakistan right now and he has just started. All other talk about potential in non-sense. Players have to be at level where they can help their team and only then they count.
 
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I don't know how old you are, but do you really think Babar and Rizwan are World class and Pujara and Starc are journeymen?? You are either joking or are a joke yourself.


Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
Click to expand...
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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You used to be a good old troll, now you are just ruining your legacy. Time to retire.
 
You will never know if [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is being serious or just trolling .

This is the same guy who once said that England were the deserving no.1 test side and not India. And this was just after India won in Australia and England imploded for 57 against New Zealand. :inzi
 
Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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Misbah wasn't at the helm when Pakistan were losing 15 straight ODI's or being ranked 6th in Tests under Mickey. Or was it 8th? I really can't remember except the players were still horrible.

So why were we on a longest losing streak ever and continued to lose Tests when Misbah wasn't around.

I can concur Misbah is no Mike Brearly nor is he Imran Khan the leader, to swing around a bunch of average players and turn them into world beaters.

But there is no guarantee that sacking him will bring another ghost of Brearly or leader of Imran as a coach and it could still spiral like it did under Mickey.

People are petulant and emotional here, like overgrown children.

They start at Mohali and end at Mohali and haven't forgiven Misbah for Mohali. It has been thousands of years and they still have a grudge.

I wonder how miserable their own life must be, for if you can hold a grudge against someone on a cricketing field for many years, someone you don't even know, imagine the chaos and hell you must create in your own homes for your close ones.
 
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Junaids said:
This is where we disagree.

Look at India. They have 2 world class players in Kohli and Bumrah, supported by journeymen.

South Africa has Rabada and De Kock and 9 journeymen.

Australia has Smith and Cummins, plus Warner in home conditions. Labuschagne was literally a journeyman in the Shan Masood class until he spent a season in County Cricket.

Pakistan has Babar Azam, Rizwan and 9 journeymen, two of whom - Naseem and Shaheen - have immense potential.

That’s all you need so long as you are well selected, coached and captained. But Pakistan aren’t.
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When did Warner, Starc, Hazelwood,Lyon, Labuschange,Pujara,Rahane,Ashwin,Jadeja,Shami,Agarwal,Faf,and Elgar become journeyman?

You live in a fantasyland.
 
lol india has the most complete team. Most well balanced team if the right players are chosen.

Mayank is a beast. Mayank is every bit as good as labuschagne if not better.

Mayank, kohli pujara, rahane are all quality. Shaw will be in the team soon. People will realize how good he is.

jadeja, shami, bumrah and ishant are all world class.

australia has smith, warner, labuschagne, cummins, hazelwood and starcyy plus Lyon

England have root, stokes, archer, buttler, woakes.
 
tyron_woodley said:
lol india has the most complete team. Most well balanced team if the right players are chosen.

Mayank is a beast. Mayank is every bit as good as labuschagne if not better.

Mayank, kohli pujara, rahane are all quality. Shaw will be in the team soon. People will realize how good he is.

jadeja, shami, bumrah and ishant are all world class.

australia has smith, warner, labuschagne, cummins, hazelwood and starcyy plus Lyon

England have root, stokes, archer, buttler, woakes.
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New Zealand are second best. Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Watling are all world class. Nicholls is quite solid too. De Grandhomme and santner are very good all rounders. Boult, Wagner, Southee make a very strong pace attack.
 
Hasan123 said:
When did Warner, Starc, Hazelwood,Lyon, Labuschange,Pujara,Rahane,Ashwin,Jadeja,Shami,Agarwal,Faf,and Elgar become journeyman?

You live in a fantasyland.
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Right. 3 batsmen in top 10 ranking 3 bowlers in top ranking for India lol Somehow they are passengers. Mayank ranks 11th.
 
Cuts_and_cuts_hard said:
Lol @ calling Pujara, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja journeymen. :lol: :facepalm:

Any team would love to have players of that level of proven quality.
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India lost SEVEN Test matches last year.

Sure, they beat Australia when Australia’s two best batsmen were suspended.

But they are a team with nine journeymen, Kohli and Bumrah. It’s just a fact.
 
Hasan123 said:
When did Warner, Starc, Hazelwood,Lyon, Labuschange,Pujara,Rahane,Ashwin,Jadeja,Shami,Agarwal,Faf,and Elgar become journeyman?

You live in a fantasyland.
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FAF and Elgar are absolute journeymen. And Rabada’s record outside South Africa is mediocre too.

I love the guts of FAF and Elgar but they, like Pujara, are hardworking mediocrities, like Neil Wagner.

As for Australia, Lyon averages 30 after hundreds of Test wickets and Starc is still in the “promising” category in Tests.

Ditto India. They are virtually all over 30 and they lost 7 Tests last year. They really are running out of time to make it in Test cricket.
 
India does not count Rohit among even its journeymen in tests- till 4 months back. But look at Rohit against a world class player in tests.

Rohit 32 tests 2141 Runs 46.54 average, 6 hundreds, 1 double, 52 sixes

Babar: 23 Tests, 1445 runs, 37.04 Average, 2 hundreds, 7 sixes


Count of Sixes (52 vs 7) is just for effect. But the overall difference is winning capability is just huge.

There’s a real difference in tests that will not just go away by changing coach. I am not even sure if Pakistan even wants to play Tests. There’s hardly any strong domestic tournament like India has. Pujara, probably among the best test players in the world, was playing domestic in the last two weeks. That’s the commitment. Given a chance, everyone except may be Babar, in Pakistan will renounce tests to play T20 leagues. In India, school teams are regularly playing multi-day matches and scoring 700-800 runs in an inning. That’s the foundation on which Indian test success is built in.
 
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HappyWarsFan said:
New Zealand are second best. Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Watling are all world class. Nicholls is quite solid too. De Grandhomme and santner are very good all rounders. Boult, Wagner, Southee make a very strong pace attack.
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on paper yes but not in reality. australia will crush them. boult is overrated. Most of them struggle vs bounce and spin. Boult is a conditions specific bowler. If any5hing Wagner is their best bowler. He is still not rated highly because he is more of a workhorse bowler in the mould of siddle except he is much better.
 
Junaids said:
FAF and Elgar are absolute journeymen. And Rabada’s record outside South Africa is mediocre too.

I love the guts of FAF and Elgar but they, like Pujara, are hardworking mediocrities, like Neil Wagner.

As for Australia, Lyon averages 30 after hundreds of Test wickets and Starc is still in the “promising” category in Tests.

Ditto India. They are virtually all over 30 and they lost 7 Tests last year. They really are running out of time to make it in Test cricket.
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A team that took a grand total of 14 wickets in a 2 test series at an average of 88 and ER of 4.05 is somehow more promising than these sides with "mediocre" players. Cool story bro.
 
Babbar said:
India does not count Rohit among even its journeymen in tests- till 4 months back. But look at Rohit against a world class player in tests.

Rohit 32 tests 2141 Runs 46.54 average, 6 hundreds, 1 double, 52 sixes

Babar: 23 Tests, 1445 runs, 37.04 Average, 2 hundreds, 7 sixes


Count of Sixes (52 vs 7) is just for effect. But the overall difference is winning capability is just huge.

There’s a real difference in tests that will not just go away by changing coach. I am not even sure if Pakistan even wants to play Tests. There’s hardly any strong domestic tournament like India has. Pujara, probably among the best test players in the world, was playing domestic in the last two weeks. That’s the commitment. Given a chance, everyone except may be Babar, in Pakistan will renounce tests to play T20 leagues. In India, school teams are regularly playing multi-day matches and scoring 700-800 runs in an inning. That’s the foundation on which Indian test success is built in.
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Oh please. rohit is still a journeyman in tests away from Asia. When has he ever scored in South Africa, England or even australia in tests?
babar is far better.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Oh please. rohit is still a journeyman in tests away from Asia. When has he ever scored in South Africa, England or even australia in tests?
babar is far better.
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He has a poor defensive technique. Won't survive where the ball is jagging around. In Australia it doesn't jag around. I am surprised he has not done well there in Tests. England and SA i agree he may never get it right.
 
Junaids said:
India lost SEVEN Test matches last year.

Sure, they beat Australia when Australia’s two best batsmen were suspended.

But they are a team with nine journeymen, Kohli and Bumrah. It’s just a fact.
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top ranked ranji trophy teams would beat every international team in india including australua.
 
Pranav Dhanawade (born 2001) is an Indian cricketer from Kalyan, Maharashtra. Batting in one innings, stretching over 4 and 5 January 2016, he became the first person to score more than 1,000 runs in one innings in an officially recognised match. He scored 1,009 not out, from 323 balls, for K. C. Gandhi High School of the Kalyan administrative district.[1] Dhanawade broke the 116-year-old record of 628 not out, set by the English schoolboy A. E. J. Collins in 1899.[2][

On day two of their first innings, with only 5 of 11 players having batted, the K. C. Gandhi team declared on 1,465/3, also a world record.

This is the foundation on which the recent Indian test success is based on. And there are so many similar examples.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He has a poor defensive technique. Won't survive where the ball is jagging around. In Australia it doesn't jag around. I am surprised he has not done well there in Tests. England and SA i agree he may never get it right.
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and n.z and south africa. it swings early and he is a sitting duck there too
 
Junaids said:
India lost SEVEN Test matches last year.

Sure, they beat Australia when Australia’s two best batsmen were suspended.

But they are a team with nine journeymen, Kohli and Bumrah. It’s just a fact.
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Yes, coz Steve Smith would have taken Pujara's wicket with his leg spin. Any way, if you feel Pujara and other mentioned are journey men and Rizwan isn't, then that's fine. Everyone can have their favorites.

You can very well let everyone know that Rizwan >> Pujara, or Babar >> Warner as per you. We understand the passion. :)
 
tyron_woodley said:
and n.z and south africa. it swings early and he is a sitting duck there too
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NZ is a funny place. It depends on when you bat. If you bat on day one on certain pitches it will be a nightmare. From 2nd day onwards it will be a batting beauty. As you go into 5th day it will turn into an absolute batting beauty.
 
By the way, Warner bowls leg spin too. And both Steve Smith and David Warner have action similar to Shane Warne. With proper planning, the Ozzie camp could have found chinks in Pujara's spin game and now allowed him to make those hundreds. Oh, and Cameron Handscomb bowls offies! Could have been an ATG spin attack. Alas, we may never know.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Oh please. rohit is still a journeyman in tests away from Asia. When has he ever scored in South Africa, England or even australia in tests?
babar is far better.
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Of course Rohit is a test journeyman. But till a few months back, he was not even a journeyman! But imagine him in a Pak test team.
 
With the team, players, management and leadership Pakistan has, unsure if they can even compete with Bangladesh.

Only good thing is Aus, NZ away series are only 2 tests long so embarrassment will be limited
 
pratiktc said:
With the team, players, management and leadership Pakistan has, unsure if they can even compete with Bangladesh.

Only good thing is Aus, NZ away series are only 2 tests long so embarrassment will be limited
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So let me get this straight:
You think Pakistan can't/or are not sure that they can even compete against Bangladesh because we lost against Aus IN Aus (who are currently decimating NZ).

I can't seem to find the logic
 
Junaids said:
India lost SEVEN Test matches last year.

Sure, they beat Australia when Australia’s two best batsmen were suspended.

But they are a team with nine journeymen, Kohli and Bumrah. It’s just a fact.
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But that's still 2 world class players more than PAK/England/WI/SL/SA combined. And our journey man pujara is better than root, Babar etc. Just stating facts :)
 
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india and australia are light years ahead of any team in WTC.. sadly the gap b/w top two and the other teams is increasing alarmingly. There isn't even any world class match winning player in the teams outside of the top four. Gone are the days when even seventh,eigth ranked windies team used to consist the likes of lara, chanderpaul, sarwan etc..
 
BreadPakoda said:
By the way, Warner bowls leg spin too. And both Steve Smith and David Warner have action similar to Shane Warne. With proper planning, the Ozzie camp could have found chinks in Pujara's spin game and now allowed him to make those hundreds. Oh, and Cameron Handscomb bowls offies! Could have been an ATG spin attack. Alas, we may never know.
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I have yet to meet anyone that views cricket the way you do.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Misbah wasn't at the helm when Pakistan were losing 15 straight ODI's or being ranked 6th in Tests under Mickey. Or was it 8th? I really can't remember except the players were still horrible.

So why were we on a longest losing streak ever and continued to lose Tests when Misbah wasn't around.

I can concur Misbah is no Mike Brearly nor is he Imran Khan the leader, to swing around a bunch of average players and turn them into world beaters.

But there is no guarantee that sacking him will bring another ghost of Brearly or leader of Imran as a coach and it could still spiral like it did under Mickey.

People are petulant and emotional here, like overgrown children.

They start at Mohali and end at Mohali and haven't forgiven Misbah for Mohali. It has been thousands of years and they still have a grudge.

I wonder how miserable their own life must be, for if you can hold a grudge against someone on a cricketing field for many years, someone you don't even know, imagine the chaos and hell you must create in your own homes for your close ones.
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Excellent potw material right there. Many should take note.
 
Imran had some excellent talent like inzi, Waqar and Waseem in playing eleven. Misbah would have achieved a lot with the same lot. I don’t rate Misbah highly as a coach but as a player and captain he achieved the best he could.
 
GrandMaster said:
Imran had some excellent talent like inzi, Waqar and Waseem in playing eleven. Misbah would have achieved a lot with the same lot. I don’t rate Misbah highly as a coach but as a player and captain he achieved the best he could.
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Wrong.

From 1985-1988 he had himself and Javed Miandad. Abdul Qadir was hit and miss and Wasim Akram was promising. The rest were journeymen.

From 1990-92 he had Wasim and Waqar and the rest were journeymen - including the aged versions of Imran and Javed.

That’s the whole point. A team needs 7 or 8 average players in their twenties to do most of the heavy lifting. And the couple of star players on top of that make the difference.

Babar is the star, and Shaheen and Naseem will be. But Misbah has dumped all the 20-something average players and his team is dysfunctional because has-beens and kids can’t do the heavy lifting.
 
Junaids said:
FAF and Elgar are absolute journeymen. And Rabada’s record outside South Africa is mediocre too.

I love the guts of FAF and Elgar but they, like Pujara, are hardworking mediocrities, like Neil Wagner.

As for Australia, Lyon averages 30 after hundreds of Test wickets and Starc is still in the “promising” category in Tests.

Ditto India. They are virtually all over 30 and they lost 7 Tests last year. They really are running out of time to make it in Test cricket.
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Elgar has shown plenty of guts and same with Faf. They are not journeyman. They ha e actually done more in test cricket than Babar who you say is world class.

Pujara is mediocre now? LOL.

India are the number 1 team in the world. They are doing just fine.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Right. 3 batsmen in top 10 ranking 3 bowlers in top ranking for India lol Somehow they are passengers. Mayank ranks 11th.
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Losing games makes players crap even though they have been performing for many years.

By that standard Babar is rubbish because we have lost many games if Junaids goes by his theory.
 
Hasan123 said:
Elgar has shown plenty of guts and same with Faf. They are not journeyman. They ha e actually done more in test cricket than Babar who you say is world class.

Pujara is mediocre now? LOL.

India are the number 1 team in the world. They are doing just fine.
Click to expand...


Faf produced two of the best match saving innings i have ever seen. One on day 5, he and ABDV saved a test vs India with a marathon partnership. Also he saved a test in Australia.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Faf produced two of the best match saving innings i have ever seen. One on day 5, he and ABDV saved a test vs India with a marathon partnership. Also he saved a test in Australia.
Click to expand...


Yes but he's a journeyman according to Juanids and Shadab Khan and Faheem will win games outside of Asia according to Junaids.
 
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