People free to choose religion : Indian Supreme Court refuses to entertain petition on conversions

[PakLFC]

70 years of Bollywood dominance cant be erased overnight. But trust me many people are rejecting the crap that is being produces in b'wood. Leave facts and historical evidences. It is a industry devoid of creativity. With the rise of OTT platforms and people avoiding theaters many regional industries are being noticed now a days.

At least you are accepting this identity crises Indian's have. Your countryman [MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION] is in complete denial telling me that Mr Jinnah also wore a suit!! I just want Indian's to be true to themselves like Pakistanis are. Be proud of your own language instead of giving the impression that speaking English means possessing great intelligence. The movie "English Vinglish" with Sri Devi deals with this subject very well. Weird that many Indian's hate the Moghuls who gave you culture and culinary gifts calling them "invaders" yet worship the Brits who also ruled India for 200 years.

 

[IndoorCricket]

At least you are accepting this identity crises Indian's have. Your countryman [MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION] is in complete denial telling me that Mr Jinnah also wore a suit!! I just want Indian's to be true to themselves like Pakistanis are. Be proud of your own language instead of giving the impression that speaking English means possessing great intelligence. The movie "English Vinglish" with Sri Devi deals with this subject very well. Weird that many Indian's hate the Moghuls who gave you culture and culinary gifts calling them "invaders" yet worship the Brits who also ruled India for 200 years.

Again. You are comparing few rotten apples to entire nation. About 70% of Indians live in villages. You are drawing false equivalence of concluding Bollywood = India. Please stop with Moghuls giving anything to India they are invaders and destroyed native culture and it was continued by Britishers. Both are equally bad.

I agree that Indians have an identity crisis because of continuous invasion for the last 700 years. When brits left India, Indians were in advert poverty, culture systematically destroyed and few English speaking elites were easily able grasp power and set the tone of nation for coming years. But the good thing is even after many centuries of invasions the Indian culture is still thriving in various parts of the world and also I see insurgence of Indians taking back their identity.

 

[PakLFC]

Again. You are comparing few rotten apples to entire nation. About 70% of Indians live in villages. You are drawing false equivalence of concluding Bollywood = India. Please stop with Moghuls giving anything to India they are invaders and destroyed native culture and it was continued by Britishers. Both are equally bad.

I agree that Indians have an identity crisis because of continuous invasion for the last 700 years. When brits left India, Indians were in advert poverty, culture systematically destroyed and few English speaking elites were easily able grasp power and set the tone of nation for coming years. But the good thing is even after many centuries of invasions the Indian culture is still thriving in various parts of the world and also I see insurgence of Indians taking back their identity.

Even the villagers are influenced with Bollywood. Such movies are shown in all area's where villagers can easily travel too.

I was a not alive when the invaders well killing on a massive spree but know that there are arguments on both sides. What can not be denied is the influence they have had on the entire culture of the subcontinent. Much of the infrastructure used in India today is British made too.

I am glad that you have agreed to your inferiority complex whatever the reasons associated with it. What is "Indian culture" to you which is thriving across the globe? I would say it includes the Muslim culture of the entire subcontinent too. Did these influential people of the time enforce the English language upon the masses after the Brits departed?? I don't think Gandhi or Nehru were westernised people who enforced western values upon Indian people.

So the Mughals and the Brits were both terrible people who gave India nothing even if much of what you have today is thanks to them!

 

[CricketCartoons]

So the Mughals and the Brits were both terrible people who gave India nothing even if much of what you have today is thanks to them!

Can you give a rough balance sheet of what(and how much) they gave and what (and how much) they took? Starting with the british.

 

[PakLFC]

Can you give a rough balance sheet of what(and how much) they gave and what (and how much) they took? Starting with the british.

You expect me to tell you the British and Moghul contribution to India of 900 years in one mail. It is for all to see what they contributed.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Even the villagers are influenced with Bollywood. Such movies are shown in all area's where villagers can easily travel too.

I was a not alive when the invaders well killing on a massive spree but know that there are arguments on both sides. What can not be denied is the influence they have had on the entire culture of the subcontinent. Much of the infrastructure used in India today is British made too.

I am glad that you have agreed to your inferiority complex whatever the reasons associated with it. What is "Indian culture" to you which is thriving across the globe? I would say it includes the Muslim culture of the entire subcontinent too. Did these influential people of the time enforce the English language upon the masses after the Brits departed?? I don't think Gandhi or Nehru were westernised people who enforced western values upon Indian people.

So the Mughals and the Brits were both terrible people who gave India nothing even if much of what you have today is thanks to them!

No identity crisis for one who has no identity. I am one with everything

Official languages of India were English and Hindi. All IAS positions which were again a colonial concept were filled with people speaking English and of course they pushed English down the throat's where ever they can. Ambedkar suggested Sanskrit to be made as official language but that was rejected too.

India tried to throw away English as its official language but there were protests in various Dravidian states as English is the only common language for theses states with other states.

For me India means spirituality. Not its architectures or food or influence. It is this thread of spirituality that connects so many people in India. Many people look towards Indian spirituality for inner wellbeing. That is what I consider its greatest achievement and which is thriving around the globe.

 

[PakLFC]

I understand what Indian people are saying that not all of them are "westernised" In a dirt poor country with 300 living on the streets most are too worried about basic necessities. It is only the image of being so developed through westernization that India uses as a cover magazine to impress the west.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

No identity crisis for one who has no identity. I am one with everything

Official languages of India were English and Hindi. All IAS positions which were again a colonial concept were filled with people speaking English and of course they pushed English down the throat's where ever they can. Ambedkar suggested Sanskrit to be made as official language but that was rejected too.

India tried to throw away English as its official language but there were protests in various Dravidian states as English is the only common language for theses states with other states.

For me India means spirituality. Not its architectures or food or influence. It is this thread of spirituality that connects so many people in India. Many people look towards Indian spirituality for inner wellbeing. That is what I consider its greatest achievement and which is thriving around the globe.

So Yoga is its greatest asset?. Muslims have built many wonderful structures and Taj Mahal is without doubt, despite efforts to the contrary, the most iconic Indian building.

India has done a great job changing its perception and it is a success in many fields; so it's true that Pakistan's false sense of pride has allowed it to deflect from its failings. It's not as if poverty doesn't exist there..

 

[CricketCartoons]

You expect me to tell you the British and Moghul contribution to India of 900 years in one mail. It is for all to see what they contributed.

just the top 5 ones (both what they gave and what they took). Start with british.

 

[PakLFC]

No identity crisis for one who has no identity. I am one with everything

Official languages of India were English and Hindi. All IAS positions which were again a colonial concept were filled with people speaking English and of course they pushed English down the throat's where ever they can. Ambedkar suggested Sanskrit to be made as official language but that was rejected too.

India tried to throw away English as its official language but there were protests in various Dravidian states as English is the only common language for theses states with other states.

For me India means spirituality. Not its architectures or food or influence. It is this thread of spirituality that connects so many people in India. Many people look towards Indian spirituality for inner wellbeing. That is what I consider its greatest achievement and which is thriving around the globe.

"No identity crisis for one who has no identity. I am one with everything . Are you saying Indians have no identity now after all the outside influence No I don't think English was forced down anyone's nose at all. It was Nehru who said "Urdu is my language" or something like that. During the time of the Brits Urdu was the national language in many states.

So the Dravidian people hated their own language or did the like the Hindi-English of the people from Goa?? I don't see much spirituality in India I am afraid with all this hate mongering and attacking minorities which is a different subject altogether. Wondering what "Indian spirituality" is??

 

[PakLFC]

just the top 5 ones (both what they gave and what they took). Start with british.

https://www.rvcj.com/7-good-things-british-india-indians/ Understandably you will most likely not agree because the Brits and Moghuls are your internal bad guys.

 

[IndoorCricket]

"No identity crisis for one who has no identity. I am one with everything . Are you saying Indians have no identity now after all the outside influence No I don't think English was forced down anyone's nose at all. It was Nehru who said "Urdu is my language" or something like that. During the time of the Brits Urdu was the national language in many states.

So the Dravidian people hated their own language or did the like the Hindi-English of the people from Goa?? I don't see much spirituality in India I am afraid with all this hate mongering and attacking minorities which is a different subject altogether. Wondering what "Indian spirituality" is??

No identity means not identifying with anything I think that is self explanatory.

Hindi is mostly know in northern part of India. The southern part of India use different languages (Telugu, Kanda, Malayali, Gujarati). Nehru can say whatever he want but the reality is English and Hindi were official languages . People have to learn this language to move higher up in economic ladder. In schooling my first language was English, second was Hindi and third was my local language

Indian spirituality is based on concept of Brahman or the universal consciousness. It is something we can experiment and experience.

 

[Itachi]

At least you are accepting this identity crises Indian's have. Your countryman [MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION] is in complete denial telling me that Mr Jinnah also wore a suit!! I just want Indian's to be true to themselves like Pakistanis are. Be proud of your own language instead of giving the impression that speaking English means possessing great intelligence. The movie "English Vinglish" with Sri Devi deals with this subject very well. Weird that many Indian's hate the Moghuls who gave you culture and culinary gifts calling them "invaders" yet worship the Brits who also ruled India for 200 years.

I didn't mention anything about suit (quote my words if I have). I don't attribute such small trivial details to identity of a person.

I asked about western values.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Didn't nanak, a khatri synonymous with intelligence, plagiarise Muslim saints of his era?

See if I say something like this about your prophet (PBUH) you will accuse me of Blasphemy.

Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a reformer who preached the concept of Ek Onkar, All Gods are same and gave a message to love each other irrespective of Cast and Creed.
Principles, which unfortunately are lost in todays world due to disrespecting quotes, like you did just now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

https://www.rvcj.com/7-good-things-british-india-indians/ Understandably you will most likely not agree because the Brits and Moghuls are your internal bad guys.

What about what they took and how much?

 

[SpiritOf1903]

See if I say something like this about your prophet (PBUH) you will accuse me of Blasphemy.

Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a reformer who preached the concept of Ek Onkar, All Gods are same and gave a message to love each other irrespective of Cast and Creed.
Principles, which unfortunately are lost in todays world due to disrespecting quotes, like you did just now.

Muslims don't believe in different gods. The oneness of God is integral to Islam. Mobhiuddin Chisti was a massive influence on him - where concepts such as langar were lifted - and the granth is a mixture of ascetics and Sufi saints.

There is literally nothing new given the hundreds of Sufi Saints that have existed in Punjab over the centuries. To suggest otherwise is incredulous.

There a common misconception Islam is lifted from Judaism and Christianity - it is, as it's Abrahamic that we naive is the purity of that lineage. You can have that view.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

*We believe

 

[PakLFC]

What about what they took and how much?

They took as well for sure but overall it probably evens out. I know Shashi Tharoor wrote a book on it crying over what the Brits did to his India. Strange that Indian's accuse Pakistanis of a victim mentality yet can't get over Moghul and British rule. You don't see Pakistanis moaning over what the Brit's did to us compared to Indian's!. By the way the Brit's also gave another thing as well, Cricket!!

 

[PakLFC]

I didn't mention anything about suit (quote my words if I have). I don't attribute such small trivial details to identity of a person.

I asked about western values.

You did mention a "suit" for sure. Anyway it is ridiculous to compare one man who died over seventy years back to what India has become today. I have given numerous examples of India's western complex. Look at Pak drama's how we celebrate our own fashion and culture. No wonder Indian ladies go gaga over them.

 

[PakLFC]

No identity means not identifying with anything I think that is self explanatory.

Hindi is mostly know in northern part of India. The southern part of India use different languages (Telugu, Kanda, Malayali, Gujarati). Nehru can say whatever he want but the reality is English and Hindi were official languages . People have to learn this language to move higher up in economic ladder. In schooling my first language was English, second was Hindi and third was my local language

Indian spirituality is based on concept of Brahman or the universal consciousness. It is something we can experiment and experience.

"No identity means not identifying with anything I think that is self explanatory." You will need to elaborate further on this comment so that i can reply accordingly. To the American's the "Indian's" often means there own indigenous people more often then yours. In the UK and Europe the Indian's are often called Pakistanis too!

I know you have many regional languages yet judge others even your own people by their English grammar. Indian people often accuse Pakistani Cricketers as being illiterate when in reality all of them can read and write in Urdu so they can not be that. We all know how great Modi's English is

Amongst believers in Islam there is no such thing as "Indian spirituality" neither is it recognised as being an official religion anywhere. There are other similar concepts like Sufism and Buddhist practises as well, they too are a bit of everything and anything.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

You did mention a "suit" for sure. Anyway it is ridiculous to compare one man who died over seventy years back to what India has become today. I have given numerous examples of India's western complex. Look at Pak drama's how we celebrate our own fashion and culture. No wonder Indian ladies go gaga over them.

The complex only exists in Pakistani mind.
Indian civilisation and culture has always been evolving with the fusion of new ideas depending on new contacts made, be it with the Greeks to British.
There is no hard and fast rule of a fashion and culture. The walls and taboo did not exist pre-Islamic contact.
It was an open culture without any Purdah, as evident from the the caves of Khajurao.. but became a bit more conservative to protect against the Islamic invaders.
Now, with time it will become more open and go back to its original roots, which was open and expressing ones sexuality and intimacy, even Mahabharata and Ramayana had mentions of Ardha Narishwara, means men with feminine, so open acceptance of Gays, which is great because Love is Love.
So do not need sermons from you.. you have lost connection to your roots.

 

[PakLFC]

The complex only exists in Pakistani mind.
Indian civilisation and culture has always been evolving with the fusion of new ideas depending on new contacts made, be it with the Greeks to British.
There is no hard and fast rule of a fashion and culture. The walls and taboo did not exist pre-Islamic contact.
It was an open culture without any Purdah, as evident from the the caves of Khajurao.. but became a bit more conservative to protect against the Islamic invaders.
Now, with time it will become more open and go back to its original roots, which was open and expressing ones sexuality and intimacy, even Mahabharata and Ramayana had mentions of Ardha Narishwara, means men with feminine, so open acceptance of Gays, which is great because Love is Love.
So do not need sermons from you.. you have lost connection to your roots.

The complex is for all to see like I proved with a previous link. You are telling me of Indian civilisation or accomplishments from centuries back does not negate that when I am talking about todays times. The rules of fashion changing should be according to the culture of it's people, only then are they worthy of respect. I see that the Muslim invaders are still giving you a hard time, you'll just need to live with it

Oh by the way the Muslim ladies of the subcontinent observe modesty with as much free will as Hindu chicks wear mini's! There is no Muhammad Bin Qasim or Gauri forcing them to doing so! So Hindu culture has evolved to the degree claiming western culture as it's own, very nice. Never mind us Pakistanis even your own Muslim's have rejected your "ghar wapsi" project repeatedly.

You don't need to listen to my lectures if you find them so burdensome, do take your love for homosexuality, gay and lesbian admiration with you. For believers in Islam such acts are not freedom of expression but massive sin's. Even a thief and murderer will attempt to justify it's criminal acts too. By the way the Muslim's of the subcontinents were all born in to the faith as much as it may hurt you. We would have converted or reconverted to idolatry a long time back had we found it to be liberating. I regret to tell you that the Ramayana or Bhagvad Gita are not considered to be revelations in Islam.

You did real well in protecting yourself from Muslim invaders, didn't you! India only has have over 200 million Muslim's together with so much culture and architecture the invaders left you. Your attitude may be successful with apologetic Indian Muslim's who will give you smiley emoticons in return however he you are talking to a liberated Pakistani who is Muslim by choice.

 

[Itachi]

You did mention a "suit" for sure.

Show me just one instance in this thread where I've remotely associated anything with suit with Mr. Jinnah. Even once will do.

Anyway it is ridiculous to compare one man who died over seventy years back to what India has become today. I have given numerous examples of India's western complex. Look at Pak drama's how we celebrate our own fashion and culture. No wonder Indian ladies go gaga over them.

Let me remind you this. I don't involve in debates where you define a person's identity by shallow attributes as you and some others have been doing here. People are more than that. It's actually insulting to even Mr. Jinnah when you describe him only with his outer attire without going deeper in to who he was.

If you want to go in this route, go ahead but I'll request you to not to insult the level of intellectuality of the veteran posters. Have a good day.

 

[PakLFC]

Show me just one instance in this thread where I've remotely associated anything with suit with Mr. Jinnah. Even once will do.



Let me remind you this. I don't involve in debates where you define a person's identity by shallow attributes as you and some others have been doing here. People are more than that. It's actually insulting to even Mr. Jinnah when you describe him only with his outer attire without going deeper in to who he was.

If you want to go in this route, go ahead but I'll request you to not to insult the level of intellectuality of the veteran posters. Have a good day.

I can't go back to the beginning of this debate that will take me forever. Do you even remember what you said about Quaid Jinnah?? If you don't involve yourself in such debates then why keep contributing to this thread?? I can understand the many undeniable facts presented about your culture are difficult for you to accept after all no one wants to be accused of being a wannabe. Even your own countryman here has accepted India's western complex.

The only route i use is honesty, nothing else. Rest assure with so many posts to my credit I am veteran here and even a post of the week winner. Better to accept your error's in life then argue against them.

Just one more thing here. If you accused millions of Pakistanis of being Arab wannabe's I would have no problem in accepting it. You see accepting your own problems or that of your community defuses the debate. Indian's should learn from such things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dCE8HyTzMc
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=imran+khan+on+indian+culture

 

[Bigboii]

The complex only exists in Pakistani mind.
Indian civilisation and culture has always been evolving with the fusion of new ideas depending on new contacts made, be it with the Greeks to British.
There is no hard and fast rule of a fashion and culture. The walls and taboo did not exist pre-Islamic contact.
It was an open culture without any Purdah, as evident from the the caves of Khajurao.. but became a bit more conservative to protect against the Islamic invaders.
Now, with time it will become more open and go back to its original roots, which was open and expressing ones sexuality and intimacy, even Mahabharata and Ramayana had mentions of Ardha Narishwara, means men with feminine, so open acceptance of Gays, which is great because Love is Love.
So do not need sermons from you.. you have lost connection to your roots.

Pakistanis have lost connection to thier roots or just the poster?

 

[PakLFC]

As Indian's often accuse Pakistanis particularly or Cricketers as having poor English grammar it is only fair I show them the mirror and what we think about them. I can see their anger here!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtshsB-yZjM

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Pakistanis have lost connection to thier roots or just the poster?

up to you to determine. Depends on where you think you root lie..
Saudi Arabia or Mohan Jodaro..

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

As Indian's often accuse Pakistanis particularly or Cricketers as having poor English grammar it is only fair I show them the mirror and what we think about them. I can see their anger here!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtshsB-yZjM

We are not accusing you of anything. Pakistan of 1970s is very different from Pakistan of 2021.
You can see that with your open eyes. Compare Imran with Babar,
Wasim with Shaheen,

English is just a medium.. it is more about confidence in a Qaum.
Kohli and Rohit are more confident today in Hindi as compared to Babar in Urdu..


"Palle nahi Dhela
Kardi Mela Mela"

 

[SpiritOf1903]

The complex only exists in Pakistani mind.
Indian civilisation and culture has always been evolving with the fusion of new ideas depending on new contacts made, be it with the Greeks to British.
There is no hard and fast rule of a fashion and culture. The walls and taboo did not exist pre-Islamic contact.
It was an open culture without any Purdah, as evident from the the caves of Khajurao.. but became a bit more conservative to protect against the Islamic invaders.
Now, with time it will become more open and go back to its original roots, which was open and expressing ones sexuality and intimacy, even Mahabharata and Ramayana had mentions of Ardha Narishwara, means men with feminine, so open acceptance of Gays, which is great because Love is Love.
So do not need sermons from you.. you have lost connection to your roots.

So anything goes. Basically an Indian stands for nothing ?

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistanis have lost connection to thier roots or just the poster?

Indian people find criticism very hard to take thanks to the brainwashing of it's ring wing media over how great they are. You see they are used to bashing their own Muslim's thinking Pakistanis will be the same breed. They are forced to walk away when dealing with Pakistanis over such issues! Just reminding them that Indian's today are western wannabe's has ignited a fire beneath them! They now tell us about Muslim invaders, British invaders and their great ancient Hindu civilisation. By the way this thread is about freedom of religion in India that these people obviously know nothing about.

There supreme court here is talking to a bunch of nut job's then again with a Hindu fundo like Modi as PM such attitudes are to be expected.

 

[Itachi]

I can't go back to the beginning of this debate that will take me forever.

Take this as an advice. Don't allege if you aren't sure of yourself and can't produce the evidence when you are asked for.

Do you even remember what you said about Quaid Jinnah?? If you don't involve yourself in such debates then why keep contributing to this thread??

.... Because you are continuing to quote and mentioning me. I request you stop it.

I can understand the many undeniable facts presented about your culture are difficult for you to accept after all no one wants to be accused of being a wannabe. Even your own countryman here has accepted India's western complex.

Why do I care about what other Indians say? I am not their spokesperson neither they are mine. I can speak only for myself and whatever I wrote, it's my personal perspective and is independent of what other indians/pakistanis or any other nationalities believe.

The only route i use is honesty, nothing else. Rest assure with so many posts to my credit I am veteran here and even a post of the week winner. Better to accept your error's in life then argue against them.

1. It's "than" and not "then".

2. You couldn't even comprehend what I wrote. You have alleged me of writing something which I never did and couldn't even show the content when I asked for. When you couldn't even grasp the gist of my post, how can you see errors in judgement?

Just one more thing here. If you accused millions of Pakistanis of being Arab wannabe's I would have no problem in accepting it. You see accepting your own problems or that of your community defuses the debate. Indian's should learn from such things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dCE8HyTzMc
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=imran+khan+on+indian+culture

I never mentioned anything about pakistani being arab wannabe's. Don't just put rubbish in the thread. If I have written in trhis therad, kindly show that/those post. Otherewise I request you to not to make assumption about what I wrote but to actually read and understand my words. That will take you further towards a constructive debate.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

So anything goes. Basically an Indian stands for nothing ?

Things which may seem to exist independently of other things are in fact dependent for their existence and their character on other things. Trees need sunlight and water, and indeed are continually being changed by these and other things they come into contact with. Streams and lakes and oceans need rain, and the rain needs the streams and lakes and oceans. People need air, and the air around them wouldn’t have the composition it has if people weren’t inhaling it and exhaling into it.

In other words: nothing Possesses inherent existence; nothing contains all the ingredients of ongoing existence within itself; nothing is self-sufficient. Hence the idea of emptiness: all things are empty of inherent, independent existence.

I know these ideas scare monotheistic religions

 

[PakLFC]

We are not accusing you of anything. Pakistan of 1970s is very different from Pakistan of 2021.
You can see that with your open eyes. Compare Imran with Babar,
Wasim with Shaheen,

English is just a medium.. it is more about confidence in a Qaum.
Kohli and Rohit are more confident today in Hindi as compared to Babar in Urdu..


"Palle nahi Dhela
Kardi Mela Mela"

Not you personally but many Indian's do go on about how poor the English of Pakistanis in general is. What?? Babar has good Urdu for goodness sake where as most of your journalists can't even say one word of Hindi fluently. Cricket is not the subject here.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Things which may seem to exist independently of other things are in fact dependent for their existence and their character on other things. Trees need sunlight and water, and indeed are continually being changed by these and other things they come into contact with. Streams and lakes and oceans need rain, and the rain needs the streams and lakes and oceans. People need air, and the air around them wouldn’t have the composition it has if people weren’t inhaling it and exhaling into it.

In other words: nothing Possesses inherent existence; nothing contains all the ingredients of ongoing existence within itself; nothing is self-sufficient. Hence the idea of emptiness: all things are empty of inherent, independent existence.

I know these ideas scare monotheistic religions

Nice words but waffle nonetheless

 

[Bigboii]

We are not accusing you of anything. Pakistan of 1970s is very different from Pakistan of 2021.
You can see that with your open eyes. Compare Imran with Babar,
Wasim with Shaheen,

English is just a medium.. it is more about confidence in a Qaum.
Kohli and Rohit are more confident today in Hindi as compared to Babar in Urdu..


"Palle nahi Dhela
Kardi Mela Mela"

So Pakistanis have lost thier roots?

How can we prove that we are with our roots

Leave islam as it's a Saudi influence and come back to Pooja of gods since that's what our forefathers did?

 

[Bigboii]

So Pakistanis have lost thier roots?

How can we prove that we are with our roots

Leave islam as it's a Saudi influence and come back to Pooja of gods since that's what our forefathers did?

In response to this

up to you to determine. Depends on where you think you root lie..
Saudi Arabia or Mohan Jodaro..

 

[PakLFC]

Take this as an advice. Don't allege if you aren't sure of yourself and can't produce the evidence when you are asked for.



.... Because you are continuing to quote and mentioning me. I request you stop it.



Why do I care about what other Indians say? I am not their spokesperson neither they are mine. I can speak only for myself and whatever I wrote, it's my personal perspective and is independent of what other indians/pakistanis or any other nationalities believe.





1. It's "than" and not "then".

2. You couldn't even comprehend what I wrote. You have alleged me of writing something which I never did and couldn't even show the content when I asked for. When you couldn't even grasp the gist of my post, how can you see errors in judgement?



I never mentioned anything about pakistani being arab wannabe's. Don't just put rubbish in the thread. If I have written in trhis therad, kindly show that/those post. Otherewise I request you to not to make assumption about what I wrote but to actually read and understand my words. That will take you further towards a constructive debate.

I will stop when I am good and ready, thanks. You are free to leave this thread and your advice if you wish to do so.

If the opinion of other people does not matter to you then good and well however the point is that many Indian's do agree they suffer from a complex. That is the point I am making.

Thanks for improving my English spelling the again we have spoken about this in detail, right??

"You couldn't even comprehend what I wrote. You have alleged me of writing something which I never did and couldn't even show the content when I asked for. When you couldn't even grasp the gist of my post, how can you see errors in judgement?" What?? I am comprehending everything good and well and see exactly what is being written. I stand by your comments on Jinnah saheb as well.

Where did I accuse you of saying Pakistanis were Arab wannabe's? I said that millions of Pakistanis are Arab wannabe's, I would have no problem if you did so too was the point being made! Goodness gracious are you a school kid or something?

 

[PakLFC]

So Pakistanis have lost thier roots?

How can we prove that we are with our roots

Leave islam as it's a Saudi influence and come back to Pooja of gods since that's what our forefathers did?

Yes that is what they want. This is what there "ghar wapsi" nonsense in India is all about! They fail to understand that some 85% of the world's Muslim's are non-Arab's.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

In response to this

Except it's not Saudia Arabia, it's Petra, Sinai, Bethlehem, those places before the Prophets came. Indians are Buddhist so that makes them, what, Orientalist?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Yes that is what they want. This is what there "ghar wapsi" nonsense in India is all about! They fail to understand that some 85% of the world's Muslim's are non-Arab's.

Fact. Islam originated in Arab World.
Another Fact.. The Arabs invaded the Pagan Hindus of India and converted some of them on the sword.
Another Fact.. India/Bharat/Hindu was hindu rashtra before the Islamic/Arab invasion.

So, it is your prerogative, to decide what are your roots.
The converted on the name of the sword, or the actual enforcers.

 

[PakLFC]

Fact. Islam originated in Arab World.
Another Fact.. The Arabs invaded the Pagan Hindus of India and converted some of them on the sword.
Another Fact.. India/Bharat/Hindu was hindu rashtra before the Islamic/Arab invasion.

So, it is your prerogative, to decide what are your roots.
The converted on the name of the sword, or the actual enforcers.

...and Bharata was an invader who invaded the subcontinent centuries back too according to many historians. The people of Sri Lanka and Nepal were also forced in to Hinduism. Did you see the Arab's converting people by the sword? Most likely not so it is just hearsay you are quoting from enemies of Islam.

As mentioned before the fact today is that 85% percent of the world's Muslim's are non Arab's. Of course with our Prophet(saw) being an Arab the Deen naturally originates from the Middle East as do Christianity and Judaism. So what? Every faith has a beginning somewhere.

My roots are that of a free man who makes his own decisions in life. Yours are what your dead forefathers told you to believe. That is the difference between us, Try much harder then your nursery stories.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

...and Bharata was an invader who invaded the subcontinent centuries back too according to many historians. The people of Sri Lanka and Nepal were also forced in to Hinduism. Did you see the Arab's converting people by the sword? Most likely not so it is just hearsay you are quoting from enemies of Islam.

As mentioned before the fact today is that 85% percent of the world's Muslim's are non Arab's. Of course with our Prophet(saw) being an Arab the Deen naturally originates from the Middle East as do Christianity and Judaism. So what? Every faith has a beginning somewhere.

My roots are that of a free man who makes his own decisions in life. Yours are what your dead forefathers told you to believe. That is the difference between us, Try much harder then your nursery stories.

Your forefathers are dead. Mine forefathers are dead well. So we can decide our roots, as long as well are comfortable with it.

Forced into Hinduism.. i can only laugh at that statement. For me, you are also a Brahmin and a Hindu.
Hinduism is a way of life.. not a gospel per say.
Since you are free man taking his own decisions, not guided by a gospel of one single god, you are hindu as per definition. Do you accept those roots.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So Pakistanis have lost thier roots?

How can we prove that we are with our roots

Leave islam as it's a Saudi influence and come back to Pooja of gods since that's what our forefathers did?

By that measure, Indians are also losing their roots in exponentially larger numbers. Just look at their films and the main actors are wannabe Americans, both in dress and language. Indians abroad lose their roots pretty damn quick compared to Pakistanis, and in fact they often brag about their ability to integrate better as a result. The guy you are debating with is sitting in Australia, he can probably tell you this himself.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

By that measure, Indians are also losing their roots in exponentially larger numbers. Just look at their films and the main actors are wannabe Americans, both in dress and language. Indians abroad lose their roots pretty damn quick compared to Pakistanis, and in fact they often brag about their ability to integrate better as a result. The guy you are debating with is sitting in Australia, he can probably tell you this himself.

the thing is..we do not have so called fixed roots.

Indianiasm is about evolving and accepting the humans of the world as it is.. in their absolute terms...rather than the fixed definitions of monotheistic world. So, we as Indians do not have a fixed identity in terms of putting someone in a box.
For me, you are Hindu as well as you have some heart, some form and hence you are my
Ishta devata..

hindu and Hinduism is omnipresent, one in self and self in one.

that seems to scare islamic fundamentalist... i get that

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

the thing is..we do not have so called fixed roots.

Indianiasm is about evolving and accepting the humans of the world as it is.. in their absolute terms...rather than the fixed definitions of monotheistic world. So, we as Indians do not have a fixed identity in terms of putting someone in a box.
For me, you are Hindu as well as you have some heart, some form and hence you are my
Ishta devata..

hindu and Hinduism is omnipresent, one in self and self in one.

that seems to scare islamic fundamentalist... i get that

Why do you think it would scare Islamic fundamentalist? I don't get that. The rest we can come to later, but I find that premise intriguing.

 

[PakLFC]

Your forefathers are dead. Mine forefathers are dead well. So we can decide our roots, as long as well are comfortable with it.

Forced into Hinduism.. i can only laugh at that statement. For me, you are also a Brahmin and a Hindu.
Hinduism is a way of life.. not a gospel per say.
Since you are free man taking his own decisions, not guided by a gospel of one single god, you are hindu as per definition. Do you accept those roots.

Actually for me you are a Muslim and and always were just like the first man on earth, Adam. It is easy to make such silly comments. Even your Ram, Sita and Lakshman were Muslim's too as one Zakir Naik
rightfully says. You are a Hindu only because it is all you have been taught.

Every religion says it is a "way of life", Islam is the Deen of Allah and Haq as well, natural as breathing. Islam unlike Hinduism transgresses man made boundaries like language, culture and what dead forefathers said. I would be Muslim even if my parents were Christian's or something like that. You always will be a Muslim born in a state of "fitrah" that means purity so return to your natural state liberating yourself from falsehood. I am guided by the Qur'an, you only do what your dead relatives did.

 

[PakLFC]

Yeah sure Nepalese and Sr Lankans were forced in to Hinduism. Allah will liberate them as well, inshallah.

 

[PakLFC]

By that measure, Indians are also losing their roots in exponentially larger numbers. Just look at their films and the main actors are wannabe Americans, both in dress and language. Indians abroad lose their roots pretty damn quick compared to Pakistanis, and in fact they often brag about their ability to integrate better as a result. The guy you are debating with is sitting in Australia, he can probably tell you this himself.

Absolutely. Hindu people in general even celebrate non-Hindu festivities and St Valentines day yet speak of Hindu pride!! I am talking of Hindu people in general as well as their celebrities. There ladies only wear see through saree's so to expose themselves.

 

[PakLFC]

the thing is..we do not have so called fixed roots.

Indianiasm is about evolving and accepting the humans of the world as it is. in their absolute terms...rather than the fixed definitions of monotheistic world. So, we as Indians do not have a fixed identity in terms of putting someone in a box.
For me, you are Hindu as well as you have some heart, some form and hence you are my
Ishta devata..

hindu and Hinduism is omnipresent, one in self and self in one.

that seems to scare islamic fundamentalist... i get that

Right! A great way to explain your inferiority complex that every culture to you is Hinduism!! That is like you celebrating someone else's lottery win. Hinduism has no certainty, it is more of a culture then a religious belief. " So, we as Indians do not have a fixed identity" which is exactly why you are accused of suffering from an English complex, American Complex, British complex and every other complex under the sun.

It is the Hindu hardliners you should fear here more then Muslim fundo's. Don't go around telling RSS "we don't have fixed roots" and all that

 

[rhony]

Right! A great way to explain your inferiority complex that every culture to you is Hinduism!! That is like you celebrating someone else's lottery win. Hinduism has no certainty, it is more of a culture then a religious belief. " So, we as Indians do not have a fixed identity" which is exactly why you are accused of suffering from an English complex, American Complex, British complex and every other complex under the sun.

It is the Hindu hardliners you should fear here more then Muslim fundo's. Don't go around telling RSS "we don't have fixed roots" and all that

Some of the biggest religious nuts have mentioned that Hinduism isn't a religion. It's a way of life. There's no inferiority complex in that. Nature is god and hence a Cow that gives us milk is treated as a mother. Snakes are worshipped as they eat the creatures that destroy crops. You get the gist. The more chauvinistic, right wing optionion of the religion is mostly due to politics and other religions like Islam which claim every non believer goes to hell. There is a concept of Karma where you will face repurcussions in the after life based on your current actions. There's no magic button as in other religions where every sin is erased based on you believing in something.

At the end, all religions are man made and have a purpose in life. They more or less preach the same thing that it's important to have a moral compass. They were craftily written so one can interpret the texts in many ways. They are also compartmentalized so people will pick and choose what they can and will follow. There's no one religion that fits all and if that's the case everybody will be following it. There are flaws and positives in every religion.

If everybody believes that there is no purpose in life and at the end they are all worm food or a pile of ash, world will turn into a chaos. Religion helps in having a purpose in life with rewards and punishments in the after life which no one has ever seen and reported back. It's just blind faith but it works.

 

[PakLFC]

Some of the biggest religious nuts have mentioned that Hinduism isn't a religion. It's a way of life. There's no inferiority complex in that. Nature is god and hence a Cow that gives us milk is treated as a mother. Snakes are worshipped as they eat the creatures that destroy crops. You get the gist. The more chauvinistic, right wing optionion of the religion is mostly due to politics and other religions like Islam which claim every non believer goes to hell. There is a concept of Karma where you will face repurcussions in the after life based on your current actions. There's no magic button as in other religions where every sin is erased based on you believing in something.

At the end, all religions are man made and have a purpose in life. They more or less preach the same thing that it's important to have a moral compass. They were craftily written so one can interpret the texts in many ways. They are also compartmentalized so people will pick and choose what they can and will follow. There's no one religion that fits all and if that's the case everybody will be following it. There are flaws and positives in every religion.

If everybody believes that there is no purpose in life and at the end they are all worm food or a pile of ash, world will turn into a chaos. Religion helps in having a purpose in life with rewards and punishments in the after life which no one has ever seen and reported back. It's just blind faith but it works.

Being a Football fans is a way of life too! No I don't get the ghost at all because firstly nature is not God from where I am standing and the creator can never be part of his own creation. Self worship may work in Hinduism which is fine by me but not for the Muslim's. Where did you learn this nonsense of the Islamic belief that every non Muslim is damned?? Shows how mislead you are. I don't want to return to this world as a wasp or a king, both are equally bad for me. You seem confused between karma and reincarnation here.

Speak for yourself why don't you. Islam is not man made rather a divine code since time began, it is as natural as breathing and hunger from where I am standing. Let me tell you I have no problem with any religion providing it is not enforced on me. The likes of Zakir Naik do not make non Muslim's listen so you are free to walk away. It is the Hindu's who keep crying about why there so called former co-coreligionists converted to other religions. It is the Muslim's they have a problem with the most. They seem fine with the Sikh's, Buddhists and Christians of the subcontinent whose ancestors too must have also left Hinduism.

I can tell you that Islam fits everything and is perfect however Muslims certainly are not. See the difference between the faithful and the faith. As you have been following Hinduism by default it may be following a road to nowhere for you.

"If everybody believes that there is no purpose in life and at the end they are all worm food or a pile of ash, world will turn into a chaos. Religion helps in having a purpose in life with rewards and punishments in the after life which no one has ever seen and reported back. It's just blind faith but it works."

It would be ever better if your self written philosophy actually meant something meaningful!

 

[rhony]

Being a Football fans is a way of life too! No I don't get the ghost at all because firstly nature is not God from where I am standing and the creator can never be part of his own creation. Self worship may work in Hinduism which is fine by me but not for the Muslim's. Where did you learn this nonsense of the Islamic belief that every non Muslim is damned?? Shows how mislead you are. I don't want to return to this world as a wasp or a king, both are equally bad for me. You seem confused between karma and reincarnation here.

Speak for yourself why don't you. Islam is not man made rather a divine code since time began, it is as natural as breathing and hunger from where I am standing. Let me tell you I have no problem with any religion providing it is not enforced on me. The likes of Zakir Naik do not make non Muslim's listen so you are free to walk away. It is the Hindu's who keep crying about why there so called former co-coreligionists converted to other religions. It is the Muslim's they have a problem with the most. They seem fine with the Sikh's, Buddhists and Christians of the subcontinent whose ancestors too must have also left Hinduism.

I can tell you that Islam fits everything and is perfect however Muslims certainly are not. See the difference between the faithful and the faith. As you have been following Hinduism by default it may be following a road to nowhere for you.

"If everybody believes that there is no purpose in life and at the end they are all worm food or a pile of ash, world will turn into a chaos. Religion helps in having a purpose in life with rewards and punishments in the after life which no one has ever seen and reported back. It's just blind faith but it works."

It would be ever better if your self written philosophy actually meant something meaningful!

I never had issues with conversions and have been vocal about it. Religious freedom is supposed to be one of the fundamental rights.

I don't think I was mislead about a non believer's fate of death according to Islam. Check this out

https://www.awaisiah.com/silsila-e-...uhammad/sayings/item/220-the-death-of-a-kafir

I never asked you to follow hinduism or any religion so nobody is enforcing anything. Karma and reincarnation are closely related.
https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/5-things-to-know-about-karma-and-reincarnation

Every religion has its own belief system. You don't believe in nature that's all around you and that's fine by me. I don't believe in divine voices as there's no tangible proof and that should be fine by you too.

There is no definite right or wrong in religious debates. That's why it's called faith. One just believes it or doesn't. And that's fine.

The road to nowhere as you said again depends on choices one makes and not on which religion one follows. Religion is not the only basis of life. If at all, religion helps in having a perspective in life.

Whatever is perfect for you doesn't make sense to somebody else. That's why there are always debates in religion. As far as my self written philosophy goes, that's what I choose to believe. I'm not a parrot to recite word to word of what's written centuries ago. I have my own views and my own code that I live by. I choose to follow aspects of religion that will make me a better person. At the end, that's what matters. For all we know, we are all worm food or pile of ashes and there's nothing after death. Who's to say that's not right. Nobody ever came back and told us. God with all his might could easily send a video tape so the mere mortals can believe in him even more. Each to his/her own with regards to religion and faith.

 

[PakLFC]

I never had issues with conversions and have been vocal about it. Religious freedom is supposed to be one of the fundamental rights.

I don't think I was mislead about a non believer's fate of death according to Islam. Check this out

https://www.awaisiah.com/silsila-e-...uhammad/sayings/item/220-the-death-of-a-kafir

I never asked you to follow hinduism or any religion so nobody is enforcing anything. Karma and reincarnation are closely related.
https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/5-things-to-know-about-karma-and-reincarnation

Every religion has its own belief system. You don't believe in nature that's all around you and that's fine by me. I don't believe in divine voices as there's no tangible proof and that should be fine by you too.

There is no definite right or wrong in religious debates. That's why it's called faith. One just believes it or doesn't. And that's fine.

The road to nowhere as you said again depends on choices one makes and not on which religion one follows. Religion is not the only basis of life. If at all, religion helps in having a perspective in life.

Whatever is perfect for you doesn't make sense to somebody else. That's why there are always debates in religion. As far as my self written philosophy goes, that's what I choose to believe. I'm not a parrot to recite word to word of what's written centuries ago. I have my own views and my own code that I live by. I choose to follow aspects of religion that will make me a better person. At the end, that's what matters. For all we know, we are all worm food or pile of ashes and there's nothing after death. Who's to say that's not right. Nobody ever came back and told us. God with all his might could easily send a video tape so the mere mortals can believe in him even more. Each to his/her own with regards to religion and faith.

A debate should be according to the thread. Let me tell you that the general view in Islam is apostasy is okay providing the former believer does not insult Islam afterwards. Providing one misleading website that could be anyone's does not prove anything. I can show you many Hindu fundo websites calling for the blood of Muslim's. You should tell the RSS that leaving Hinduism should be accepted like I do Muslim extremists.

You only told me that Islam calls for the killing of apostates to make me feel ashamed for being a Muslim that did not work at all. I can play the same game by showing you many video's of what is happening to Muslim's of India today. The aim of Hindu's is always to make non Hindu's feel inferior so we accept idol worship. The RSS plan of converting all it's Muslim's and Christian's to Hinduism by 2021 met the dust big time as well.

That is weird coz most Hindu's I know certainly believe in a divine being. They certainly believe in a God even if they worship man made objects or animals. Religion is one things where is common sense is another, we are supposed to observe the world and universe at large then coming to our own conclusions. For Muslim's Islam indeed is the basis of life otherwise so many would not be fasting these days for divine blessings. What you believe is your choice however I will not hesitate to call you out if it sound like complete hogwash, you indeed have that right too. Not really, my body will rot in the grave where as my sprit will move on to another world. We don't believe in returning as anything else neither do people like me want to. You are sounding like a repetitive french finch or a broken record going on about the same thing without much thought, just empty words.

I suggest you read all the mails here to see how your Hindu brethren are still crying over why the Muslim's of the region left Hinduism, the religion according to them we were born in to. They are too naive and dumb to understand that to believe or not to believe in any faith is a choice. That the Muslim's of today were born in to believing families so what is this "your roots" nonsense?? I am telling them that the natural faith of people is Islam, always was and will be.

These Hindu hardliners are directing contradicting what your supreme court has said about choosing religion. I too can provide video's on this as well if you want as well as Hindu preachers misquoting the Qur'an then threatening their own Muslim's. Would you like me to play your links game and do that too? You are only inviting civil war in your own country with such acts, nothing else. Pakistanis are Muslim's by choice and will remain so. You know your Muslim's yell from the rooftops "we love Islam" yet Hindu fundo's tell them "no, you are born in to Hinduism so must return!" You seem to be doing similar to the Sikh's or telling them Sikhism is a part of Hinduism just to upset them. Full of contradictions are you people I tell you.

 

[OMB]

UP ATS arrests two Delhi men for mass conversion racket


They also allegedly received funding from international organisations, and targeted specially abled children and other vulnerable groups in the society for conversion to Islam. They were involved in conversion of over 1,000 people in the past 18 months, police said


Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) of UP Police on Monday claimed to have busted a nationwide mass conversion racket with the arrest of two men. The men, identified as Umar Gautam and Jahangir Alam, are both residents of Jamia Nagar in New Delhi.

They also allegedly received funding from international organisations, and targeted specially abled children and other vulnerable groups in the society for conversion to Islam. They were involved in conversion of over 1,000 people in the past 18 months, police said.

ATS has lodged a First Information Report (FIR) in Lucknow against the duo, some unidentified persons and Islamic Da’wah Centre (IDC) under section 420 (cheating and dishonesty), 120 B(criminal conspiracy) 153 A (promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion) 153 B(imputations, assertions prejudicial to national integration) 295(injuring or defiling place of worship) 511(attempt to commit offences) of IPC along with relevant sections of the state’s new anti-conversion law, Uttar Pradesh Prohibition of Unlawful Conversion of Religion Act.

In a press conference, additional director general (Law & Order) of UP, Prashant Kumar said in Lucknow, “The duo was involved in an illegal, large scale conversion of people of different faiths to Islam in UP and other parts of the country. Our teams are working to identify other members of the group and their supporters.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/upatsarrests-two-delhi-men-for-mass-conversion-racket-101624270176176.html

 

[OMB]

Muslim Man Assaulted in Kanpur, Daughter Begs For Mercy

Cellphone footage of the incident shows the man's little daughter clinging on to him and begging the attackers to spare him.

A 45-year-old Muslim man in Uttar Pradesh's Kanpur town was paraded through a street, assaulted and made to chant "Jai Shri Ram" slogans on Wednesday. He was eventually handed over to the police. Distressing footage of the incident shot by locals shows the man's little daughter clinging on to him and begging the attackers to spare him. The footage also shows the man being hit while in the custody of the police.

https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/muslim-man-assaulted-muslim-man-assaulted-in-public-in-kanpur-little-daughter-begs-for-mercy-597640

The incident took place 500 metres from an intersection where the right-wing group Bajrang Dal held a meeting, where they claimed Muslims in the area were trying to convert a Hindu girl in their locality. The assault reportedly took place just after the meeting.

In a statement, the Kanpur police said they have filed a case of rioting against a local who runs a marriage band, his son and around 10 unknown people, based on a compliant by the assaulted man.
The police have not said if the men named in the case are affiliated to the organisation.

"I was driving my e-rickshaw around 3 pm when the accused started abusing and assaulting me and threatening to kill me and my family. I got saved because of the police," the man, who is an e-rickshaw driver, said in his complaint. He has not spoken to the media so far.

The man is a relative of a Muslim family in the locality that is involved in a legal dispute with their Hindu neighbors. The Kanpur police statement says in July, the two families filed cases against each other at the local police station.

The Muslim side had filed an FIR of assault and criminal intimidation first. The Hindu side then filed a case alleging "assault with the intent to outrage the modesty of a woman".

Sources say the Bajrang Dal recently got involved in the matter and they had been making allegations of forcible conversion against the Muslim family.

"We have seen the video of a man being assaulted. Based on a complaint by the victim, we have filed an FIR and we are carrying out the legal process," Raveena Tyagi, a senior police official in Kanpur said in a brief statement.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/watch-muslim-man-assaulted-in-kanpur-daughter-begs-for-mercy-2508858

 

[PakLFC]

If people are free to choose there own religion then why are Hindu's crying over Muslim's having left it? Interestingly their beef is with the Muslim's not the Sikhs, Christians or Buddhists who also left idolatry.

 

[PakLFC]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mus...s-for-mercy-2508858#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll Just another day in India a country so great where everyone is free to choose their own religion!!

Some days back Hindu hardliners were threatening Muslim's in Delhi and now this. Yes, it happens in Pakistan too with minority communities. The difference is people like me always support the non Muslim's of Pakistan where as Indian Hindu's tell us they are sporadic incidents.

 

[mustang]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mus...s-for-mercy-2508858#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll Just another day in India a country so great where everyone is free to choose their own religion!!

Some days back Hindu hardliners were threatening Muslim's in Delhi and now this. Yes, it happens in Pakistan too with minority communities. The difference is people like me always support the non Muslim's of Pakistan where as Indian Hindu's tell us they are sporadic incidents.

Why compare yourself against a hardline Hindu and complain? Why not compare yourself against an equally open minded person from across the border?

The exact same discrepancy that you state exists when a liberal Indian compares herself/himself against a hardline Pakistani.

 

[PakLFC]

Why compare yourself against a hardline Hindu and complain? Why not compare yourself against an equally open minded person from across the border?

The exact same discrepancy that you state exists when a liberal Indian compares herself/himself against a hardline Pakistani.

You see the simple problem is you folks as a country chose a hard line Hindu PM something we have never done. This suggests that most Hindu's in India are fanatics. Pak on the other hand has always rejected Mullah''s and their culture of hate if that is what they preach..

 

[mustang]

You see the simple problem is you folks as a country chose a hard line Hindu PM something we have never done. This suggests that most Hindu's in India are fanatics. Pak on the other hand has always rejected Mullah''s and their culture of hate if that is what they preach..

You never answered my question and are digressing to something else.

Why compare yourself against a hardline Hindu and complain? Why not compare yourself against an equally open minded person from across the border?


Just to clarify - I do not belong to the national group of idiots who elected Modi. I belong to the national group of idiots who elected Trump (though I personally had no part in that outcome).

 

[PakLFC]

You never answered my question and are digressing to something else.

Why compare yourself against a hardline Hindu and complain? Why not compare yourself against an equally open minded person from across the border?


Just to clarify - I do not belong to the national group of idiots who elected Modi. I belong to the national group of idiots who elected Trump (though I personally had no part in that outcome).

I don't want to compare myself to a hard line Hindu when I am not like that. I have no problem if a Muslim/ah leaves Islam like many do, they are not answerable to me. Well you see bud it is hard to find an open minded Hindu these days who welcomes apostasy as well as conversions.

So are you someone who will support Rahul in the next election or demand more blood of Muslim's by voting for Modi?

 

[OMB]

Siddiqui, a resident of Muzaffarnagar, was arrested in connection with India’s largest religious conversion syndicate busted by the UP ATS.

Meerut: The Uttar Pradesh Anti-Terrorist Squad on Wednesday arrested Islamic scholar Maulana Kaleem Siddiqui, who is one of the biggest clerics from western UP, from Meerut on charges of religious conversion.

His name cropped up during the investigation into the Umar Gautam case. Umar Gautam was jailed in June after the UP police rounded him up for allegedly running a conversion racket.

The 64-year-old Islamic scholar was on the radar of security agencies due to suspicious activities. He was nabbed as soon as he arrived in Meerut last night. He is currently being interrogated by UP Police.

Siddiqui, a resident of Muzaffarnagar, was arrested in connection with India’s largest religious conversion syndicate busted by the UP ATS, the police said.

“He runs Jamia Imam Waliullah trust that funds several madrassas for which he received huge foreign funding. Investigation shows Maulana Kaleem Siddiqui’s trust received Rs 3 crores in foreign funding, including Rs 1.5 from Bahrain. Six teams of ATS have been formed to investigate this case,” Uttar Pradesh Police ADG (Law and Order) Prashant Kumar told the media on Wednesday.

The syndicate has converted around 1,000 people in India, Uttar Pradesh ATS Inspector General GK Goswami said.

Amanatullah Khan, the Aam Aadmi Party MLA from Delhi’s Okhla who was at the centre of the storm during the Shaheen Bagh protests, called the arrest “atrocity on Muslims”.

“Maulana Kaleem Siddiqui, a famous Islamic scholar, has been arrested before the elections in Uttar Pradesh. The atrocities on Muslims are increasing. The silence of secular parties on these issues is giving more strength to the BJP. BJP, how much will you fall to win the election?” he asked on social media platform Twitter.

“This is wrong. The BJP government has no work other than harassing Muslims,” Samajwadi Party MP Shafiqur Rahman Barq said on the arrest of Siddiqui.

Mufti Qazi Jahangir Alam Qasmi and Mohammad Umar Gautam were arrested in June from Delhi’s Jamia Nagar area for trying to convert deaf students and poor people to Islam, with alleged funding from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/muzaffarnagar-conversion-case-up-ats-arrest-islamic-scholar-maulana-kaleem-siddiqui-from-meerut/815140