Permission for Muslims to conduct Friday prayers has been revoked in India’s Gurugram city

[Last Monetarist]

Intolerance for Muslims in certain parts of India continues to grow:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“We won’t allow namaz in the open at any cost.”<br><br>Permission for Muslims to conduct Friday prayers in India’s Gurugram city has been revoked at several sites, after campaigning by right-wing Hindu groups <a href="https://t.co/1m3gMVLrzA">pic.twitter.com/1m3gMVLrzA</a></p>— Al Jazeera English (@AJEnglish) <a href="https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1460265080751284224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

I normally won’t agree with praying on street if it is inconveniencing rest of the population.

But this seems a bit more sinister when I read and saw reports on it.

So apparently the area had 19 mosques. But in the last decade for one reason or another a lot of the mosques have been forced to be closed or abandoned and now the area only has 6 active mosques. While the population of Muslims has obviously remained same or slightly increased. This is why there is no other option left but to pray in the open.

So on the face of it I would agree that they shouldn’t pray in open without permission but here there is more sinister going on and such a situation was created intentionally

 

[Kroll]

It seems to me that Hindutva ideology is about and only about harassing, attacking and killing Muslims.

There’s nothing in it about progressing the Hindu religion.

 

[Technics 1210]

Can you spell Secualism?

 

[offstump]

Disgusting and racist in every sense.

 

[Tubs]

Can you spell Secualism?

That's something you and Modi have in common, apparently.

 

[Tubs]

Pretty silly stuff. You see some of the crazies jumping into a disease-ridden river, let these guy pray in outside prayer sites. At least this is harmless enough. As someone said, if this was one of those large-scale prayers in public places (especially in a road), then I'd understand. But it's not, it is a direct attack on freedom, since it's in a designated prayer area.

It does spur up a thought, though. Where are the churches in Saudi Arabia? Can people openly perform holy communion, Diwali, Vaisakhi, Hanukkah, etc there? Regardless, a hypocrisy in a Muslim nation doesn't justify this, but it's interesting to see certain double standards.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pretty silly stuff. You see some of the crazies jumping into a disease-ridden river, let these guy pray in outside prayer sites. At least this is harmless enough. As someone said, if this was one of those large-scale prayers in public places (especially in a road), then I'd understand. But it's not, it is a direct attack on freedom, since it's in a designated prayer area.

It does spur up a thought, though. Where are the churches in Saudi Arabia? Can people openly perform holy communion, Diwali, Vaisakhi, Hanukkah, etc there? Regardless, a hypocrisy in a Muslim nation doesn't justify this, but it's interesting to see certain double standards.

You have no right to call Hindus jumping in river 'crazies'.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pretty silly stuff. You see some of the crazies jumping into a disease-ridden river, let these guy pray in outside prayer sites. At least this is harmless enough. As someone said, if this was one of those large-scale prayers in public places (especially in a road), then I'd understand. But it's not, it is a direct attack on freedom, since it's in a designated prayer area.

It does spur up a thought, though. Where are the churches in Saudi Arabia? Can people openly perform holy communion, Diwali, Vaisakhi, Hanukkah, etc there? Regardless, a hypocrisy in a Muslim nation doesn't justify this, but it's interesting to see certain double standards.

If you are so concerned that what goes on in Saudi Arabia "doesn't justify this", why not open a separate thread about Saudi Arabia? Otherwise of course, you are justifying it, in an underhand manner.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Pretty silly stuff. You see some of the crazies jumping into a disease-ridden river, let these guy pray in outside prayer sites. At least this is harmless enough. As someone said, if this was one of those large-scale prayers in public places (especially in a road), then I'd understand. But it's not, it is a direct attack on freedom, since it's in a designated prayer area.

It does spur up a thought, though. Where are the churches in Saudi Arabia? Can people openly perform holy communion, Diwali, Vaisakhi, Hanukkah, etc there? Regardless, a hypocrisy in a Muslim nation doesn't justify this, but it's interesting to see certain double standards.

Lol classic case of justification in your second paragraph.

If it shouldn’t matter then why bring it up?

Btw the comparison with Saudi is stupid to begin with. For one they don’t claim to be a harbinger of humans right and religious freedom so you’re only selling india short if you compare india with it’s so called secularism to Saudi. Second and more importantly. These Muslims in india ARE native. They are Indians for centuries.

 

[sweep_shot]

This is absurd but not surprising.

This is BJP's India.

 

[Tubs]

You have no right to call Hindus jumping in river 'crazies'.

Hindus who jump in a known polluted river are crazy. Muslims who advocate for the death of apostates are crazy. Christians who shoot up abortion clinics are crazy. Jews who think Palestinians don't deserve to live are crazy. Atheists who think that state atheism should be employed and all religion systemically eradicated are crazy.

If you are so concerned that what goes on in Saudi Arabia "doesn't justify this", why not open a separate thread about Saudi Arabia? Otherwise of course, you are justifying it, in an underhand manner.

Always have to have a jab at hypocrisy. Take it as an addendum, nothing more.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindus who jump in a known polluted river are crazy. Muslims who advocate for the death of apostates are crazy. Christians who shoot up abortion clinics are crazy. Jews who think Palestinians don't deserve to live are crazy. Atheists who think that state atheism should be employed and all religion systemically eradicated are crazy.



Always have to have a jab at hypocrisy. Take it as an addendum, nothing more.

Always have to point out someone's real agenda. Take it as an addendum, nothing more.

 

[Lonewarrior]

no indian poster on this thread ? ......

 

[Tubs]

Always have to point out someone's real agenda. Take it as an addendum, nothing more.

That's not what an addendum means, but nice try.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's not what an addendum means, but nice try.

It's not a thread about Saudi Arabia, but nice try.

 

[LaLoco]

Lets see how long the excuse of better economy masks racism and Islamophobia in India by the BJP. I guess it becomes easier when vast majority either support or look the other way.

 

[rhony]

I keep reading that Saudi money is funding mosques all over the world. Why don't they sponsor new mosques for prayers? Why aren't Indian Muslims collecting funds internally to build new mosques? Praying on the street shouldn't be encouraged.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan on Wednesday strongly condemned the restrictions imposed by the BJP’s Haryana government on offering Friday prayers by Muslims at several places in the state, the Foreign Office said in a statement.

The FO said it is deeply concerned over continued vandalization of mosques and attacks against prayer places of Muslims by Sangh Parivar extremists with the complicity of BJP ruled states of Uttar Pradesh and Haryana.

In another act of sacrilege of Muslim religious places, radical Hindu groups reportedly dumped cow dung at several places of Friday prayers.

“The senseless attacks against Muslims and their places of worship, houses and businesses are continuing in Tripura as well despite international concern,” the Foreign Office added.

The BJP ruled states have arrested hundreds of individuals including well-known advocates and journalists under draconian laws such as Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act for raising a voice against gross and systematic human rights violations of minorities, particularly Muslims.

In the state of Maharashtra, violent attacks were unleashed against Muslims’ shops, mosques and shrines by radical activists of BJP and its affiliated groups including Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Maharashtra Navnirman Sena.

The FO called on the international community, particularly the United Nations and relevant international human rights and humanitarian organizations to fulfill their responsibilities to stop the rising Islamophobia and violent attacks against minorities particularly Muslims in India and ensure their safety, security and well-being and the protection of their places of worship.

 

[street cricketer]

You have to be incredibly insecure to be offended at an another religious group praying in public as long as they're not disturbing anyone or anything.

 

[street cricketer]

Pretty silly stuff. You see some of the crazies jumping into a disease-ridden river, let these guy pray in outside prayer sites. At least this is harmless enough. As someone said, if this was one of those large-scale prayers in public places (especially in a road), then I'd understand. But it's not, it is a direct attack on freedom, since it's in a designated prayer area.

It does spur up a thought, though. Where are the churches in Saudi Arabia? Can people openly perform holy communion, Diwali, Vaisakhi, Hanukkah, etc there? Regardless, a hypocrisy in a Muslim nation doesn't justify this, but it's interesting to see certain double standards.

Well you can't keep blaming Pakistan and other islamic countries for being discriminatory against minorities and then do the same thing against the minorities in your own country.

Why not emulate more secular and tolerant western countries than Pakistan or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia? That would be difficult I guess.

 

[Itachi]

The keyword here is, "local residents".

The local residents has every right to complain against any activity which they may feel uncomfortable. You will require permission to gather large number of people in a public place (for prayer or any other activity) and if local residents object to it, then more or less it will be granted. It's same as playing loud music at your house or at organized party where even if you do have permission, upon complain from local residents, police may shut it down.

I see it's been given a religious perspective but in reality, this is just local residents taking steps for what they think is best for them.

 

[street cricketer]

The keyword here is, "local residents".

The local residents has every right to complain against any activity which they may feel uncomfortable. You will require permission to gather large number of people in a public place (for prayer or any other activity) and if local residents object to it, then more or less it will be granted. It's same as playing loud music at your house or at organized party where even if you do have permission, upon complain from local residents, police may shut it down.

I see it's been given a religious perspective but in reality, this is just local residents taking steps for what they think is best for them.

Unless there are no loudspeakers being used and there's no traffic obstruction, why is it an issue though?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan on Wednesday strongly condemned the restrictions imposed by the BJP’s Haryana government on offering Friday prayers by Muslims at several places in the state, the Foreign Office said in a statement.

The FO said it is deeply concerned over continued vandalization of mosques and attacks against prayer places of Muslims by Sangh Parivar extremists with the complicity of BJP ruled states of Uttar Pradesh and Haryana.

In another act of sacrilege of Muslim religious places, radical Hindu groups reportedly dumped cow dung at several places of Friday prayers.

“The senseless attacks against Muslims and their places of worship, houses and businesses are continuing in Tripura as well despite international concern,” the Foreign Office added.

The BJP ruled states have arrested hundreds of individuals including well-known advocates and journalists under draconian laws such as Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act for raising a voice against gross and systematic human rights violations of minorities, particularly Muslims.

In the state of Maharashtra, violent attacks were unleashed against Muslims’ shops, mosques and shrines by radical activists of BJP and its affiliated groups including Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Maharashtra Navnirman Sena.

The FO called on the international community, particularly the United Nations and relevant international human rights and humanitarian organizations to fulfill their responsibilities to stop the rising Islamophobia and violent attacks against minorities particularly Muslims in India and ensure their safety, security and well-being and the protection of their places of worship.

Someone needs to tell the Pakistani government to stay quiet sometimes.

 

[PakLFC]

I recall Mahmood Madani telling Parvez Musharraf in Delhi not to worry about Indian Muslim's and how they can sort out their own problems. Now he is being forced to chant "Bharat mata ki jai" to prove his patriotism . Then we have Shahrukh's son being imprisoned without much evidence and now Salman Kurshid's house has been attacked in secular India When Indian Muslim's who are celebrities or politicians are being attacked we can imagine how much discrimination the common Muslim faces on a daily basis. Us Pakistanis should do what Madani wanted that is just turn the other way. Funny thing is Indian folk here pointing the finger at Pakistan.

 

[Itachi]

Unless there are no loudspeakers being used and there's no traffic obstruction, why is it an issue though?

There are many locations in India where local residents doesn't welcome others. They will always be suspicious regardless of religion or community.

In cases like these, the requests of local residents does get more importance. If the place is owned by some Muslim community, then it becomes a different case. But since it's a public one, it will be up to local residents and if majority opposes it, permission will be revoked.

 

[PakLFC]

There are many locations in India where local residents doesn't welcome others. They will always be suspicious regardless of religion or community.

In cases like these, the requests of local residents does get more importance. If the place is owned by some Muslim community, then it becomes a different case. But since it's a public one, it will be up to local residents and if majority opposes it, permission will be revoked.

Unless the visitors are white people then they will be treated like royalty. "Hello, hello Sir! What can I do for you sir?, tea or coffee??"

 

[street cricketer]

There are many locations in India where local residents doesn't welcome others. They will always be suspicious regardless of religion or community.

In cases like these, the requests of local residents does get more importance. If the place is owned by some Muslim community, then it becomes a different case. But since it's a public one, it will be up to local residents and if majority opposes it, permission will be revoked.

Muslims residents have previously objected to temple processions passing through their locality because they're against idolatry.

Do you agree with that as well?

 

[Itachi]

Muslims residents have previously objected to temple processions passing through their locality because they're against idolatry.

Do you agree with that as well?

I think the sentiments of local residents should be given more importance. The community has every right to follow up with an official complaint in their jurisdiction.

 

[Itachi]

Unless the visitors are white people then they will be treated like royalty. "Hello, hello Sir! What can I do for you sir?, tea or coffee??"

If local residents wants, then why not? It's their prerogative.

 

[PakLFC]

If local residents wants, then why not? It's their prerogative.

Coz it smacks of thinking of themselves as inferior.

 

[Lonewarrior]

the real question no one is asking that there were 19 mosques. but now the area only has 6 active mosques. so why these mosques gt closed in the last decade or so ?

 

[Itachi]

Coz it smacks of thinking of themselves as inferior.

If people love being inferior, then let them be. Why do you want to decide for them what SHOULD they want?

 

[Tubs]

It's not a thread about Saudi Arabia, but nice try.

There's a link, no matter how tenuous, due to the issue of religious freedom. That is not at all comparable to the obvious blunder you made trying to be quippy and copying me.

 

[MP2011]

Haryana is my native state and used to be quite good until Khattar (a sanghi handpicked by bigot) took over and made it a complete basket case in terms of harmony, administration, law and order, and everything you associate with good governance.

 

[MP2011]

What did bigots do after stopping Muslims from conducting Friday prayers?

They themselves performed pooja in public places. Of course, that doesn't inconvenience common public.

 

[MP2011]

And anyone who denies the obvious communal agenda in play here, is obviously a sanghi sympathizer.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There's a link, no matter how tenuous, due to the issue of religious freedom. That is not at all comparable to the obvious blunder you made trying to be quippy and copying me.

If you spent less time trying to deflect every topic towards your usual anti-Islam rants and saved those for their own threads, that would allow us to discuss other topics on their own merits. Do you understand that? Give it some thought, would probably make for better quality threads whatever side of the fence you are on. Would certainly avoid getting caught up in useless exchanges like this one.

 

[PakLFC]

If people love being inferior, then let them be. Why do you want to decide for them what SHOULD they want?

Coz most people don't know the difference between Pakistanis and Indians. I don't want the world thinking Pakistanis suffer from an inferiority complex. Next you will say let people be racist if they want too.

 

[PakLFC]

Why you are so insecure that you require others to validate the value of yourself?

If someone thinks of me as Pakistani or Bangladeshi, why will I care?

From your past post, it's not surprising though. I've seen that you require constant validation from others. I advice you to grow self confidence where you do not validation from others. It'll help you long way.

Not insecure but offended that I should be seen as something other then a Pakistani. You may feel differently that is your prerogative. I am very confident thanks and require nothing from anyone especially from someone like you whose posts are full of contradictions. Back to the topic the reason people in India don't welcome outsiders is because it makes them feel inferior. Try not to contradict yourself so much then perhaps a few people here will show you some respect.

I don't give a damn if people here disagree with my mails. This is the type of man I am.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Coz most people don't know the difference between Pakistanis and Indians. I don't want the world thinking Pakistanis suffer from an inferiority complex. Next you will say let people be racist if they want too.

There are some rumors that after 9 11 some restaurants changed name/ some law offenders gave contradictory stories of origin etc.

 

[Itachi]

Not insecure but offended that I should be seen as something other then a Pakistani. You may feel differently that is your prerogative. I am very confident thanks and require nothing from anyone especially from someone like you whose posts are full of contradictions. Back to the topic the reason people in India don't welcome outsiders is because it makes them feel inferior. Try not to contradict yourself so much then perhaps a few people here will show you some respect.

I don't give a damn if people here disagree with my mails. This is the type of man I am.

If you don't give a damn, why you feel offended if someone thinks of you as someone other than Pakistani?

A bit confused here.

 

[drubwrubnat]

There are some rumors that after 9 11 some restaurants changed name/ some law offenders gave contradictory stories of origin etc.

And to be honest, with all humility, im actually in agreement with you, good sir, we shouldnt be seen as together. Fair point, all good i guess

 

[Lego20]

Nothing wrong as long as the Rule is applied consistently across religions.

 

[street cricketer]

I think the sentiments of local residents should be given more importance. The community has every right to follow up with an official complaint in their jurisdiction.

This would create massive social divisions than already exists and localised ghettos where Hindus can't pass a religious procession through a path that crosses a muslim locality and muslims can't, for example, take part in muharram processions through hindu majority areas (which is literally everywhere).

As I understand, the roads are the public property and if we should respect the sentiments of local residents, what stops from upper caste residents asking the body of a lower caste individual to not pass through their locality and that their caste sentiments should be respected during a funeral procession, because this has happened in India. The way I see it, as long as they're not disturbing anyone, unless you have an irrational hatred of muslims or their beliefs, you wouldn't be "offended" at the sight of muslims praying outside.

 

[Itachi]

This would create massive social divisions than already exists and localised ghettos where Hindus can't pass a religious procession through a path that crosses a muslim locality and muslims can't, for example, take part in muharram processions through hindu majority areas (which is literally everywhere).

As I understand, the roads are the public property and if we should respect the sentiments of local residents, what stops from upper caste residents asking the body of a lower caste individual to not pass through their locality and that their caste sentiments should be respected during a funeral procession, because this has happened in India. The way I see it, as long as they're not disturbing anyone, unless you have an irrational hatred of muslims or their beliefs, you wouldn't be "offended" at the sight of muslims praying outside.

Sooner or later, the circumstances that you've mentioned will occur. It's basically a cycle.

There will be a point of time where both party will suffer and will see the horror. Then, a revolution will come which will eradicate it. But as time will pass, the same differentiation/groupism will come in to play.

You can't eradicate completely because humans tend to remain in groups that they find common elements. It's a natural response and survival instinct which have existed through out human history.

You can't weed it. It's been blue printed in human mind.

 

[cric_man]

Sooner or later, the circumstances that you've mentioned will occur. It's basically a cycle.

There will be a point of time where both party will suffer and will see the horror. Then, a revolution will come which will eradicate it. But as time will pass, the same differentiation/groupism will come in to play.

You can't eradicate completely because humans tend to remain in groups that they find common elements. It's a natural response and survival instinct which have existed through out human history.

You can't weed it. It's been blue printed in human mind.

So your solution is to let the "horror" play out?

 

[Itachi]

So your solution is to let the "horror" play out?

There's no solution. It's just how humans are.

 

[street cricketer]

There's no solution. It's just how humans are.

You certainly don't need to stoke the fire of bigotry inside the imperfect humans you describe, but that's been happening since at least a decade in India. Not just stoking it, but pouring more fuel to the fire if it seems like dying down, so as to keep the fire burning for electoral gains.

 

[street cricketer]

The other day, I saw a post in a right wing account posting the video of a muslim man praying by the side of a metro footpath without disturbing anyone, as if he's committing a crime. Was flabbergasted at the sheer contempt for a harmless act in the comments.

Think north india is beyond the point of redemption now, even the north east has seen Tripura violence in recent days. Hindutva has made inroads into the south as well but at least south india should be salvaged from this cycle of hatred.

 

[Itachi]

You certainly don't need to stoke the fire of bigotry inside the imperfect humans you describe, but that's been happening since at least a decade in India. Not just stoking it, but pouring more fuel to the fire if it seems like dying down, so as to keep the fire burning for electoral gains.

As I said, the religious horror that occurred during the partition inhibited the natural tendency for a few decades. But as time passes, the effect wears out.

Its a natural cycle.

 

[MP2011]

Amid namaz row, man offers shop for prayers in Gurgaon

Amid protests by some Gurgaon residents and right-wing groups against namaz in the open, a 40-year-old man, Akshay Yadav, has offered his vacant shop in Sector 12 to people from the Muslim community so they can pray there. According to him, prayers were offered by at least 15 people on the premises last Friday, and he is willing to extend the gesture for the future too.

The same day, on November 12, a right-wing outfit had camped at a previously agreed upon namaz site in Sector 12A, saying they will make a volleyball court there, while in Sarhaul, over 80 protesters had disrupted prayers by occupying a park.

The Sector 12 locality, where Yadav’s shop is, has witnessed protests in recent weeks from some local residents and members of the Sanyukta Hindu Sangharsh Samiti, which also organised a Govardhan Puja at the namaz site recently.

Yadav said he had been reading in newspapers about Friday prayers being disrupted, and discussed the issue with one of his tenants, Taufiq Ahmad. “I told him that I have an empty shop near my house which can be used for prayers. A lot of people from the Muslim community in this area work in the auto market and service stations nearby. I just hope for peace and harmony between the communities. The Constitution says that every citizen has a right to pray and no one can object to that,” he said.

The shop, approximately 1,000 square feet, is located near the telephone exchange on Old Delhi road in Sector 12 and has been lying empty for some time, said Yadav, who owns several properties in the area. He has a wildlife tours and travel business, he said, adding: “I am a businessman. I have no affiliation with any political party.”

“My family said that if our place is being used to offer prayers to any God, it is a good thing. I have lived in Gurgaon for decades and it has always been a place of harmony and brotherhood,” said Yadav.

https://indianexpress.com/article/c...n-offers-shop-for-prayers-in-gurgaon-7626467/

 

[MP2011]

This is how you maintain communal harmony. Show this to the bigot and his chums, probably they'll learn something which has never been taught in their hate filled shakhas!

Shame on bigots who even defend the outright bigotry in this instance.

 

[MP2011]

So your solution is to let the "horror" play out?

That's how their master has operated right from Gujarat riots.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nothing wrong as long as the Rule is applied consistently across religions.

Law applied and executed by judges and juries who are going to from majority population I am guessing. Hmm...can't see how that might have any loopholes.

 

[street cricketer]

As I said, the religious horror that occurred during the partition inhibited the natural tendency for a few decades. But as time passes, the effect wears out.

Its a natural cycle.

Yeah no. It's been more than seven decades and the hatred has grown more, not less, particularly in north India which experienced the effects of partition.

A society doesn't change without social reform and without social reform, it just remains stagnant with a perpetual religious riots and polarisation. One of the reasons religious polarisation is far less down south despite it being in a third world region is because of atheist and anti caste social reformers who changed the thinking of an entire generation of people. Doesn't mean everyone down south is woke, it's still part of the third world, but at the very least, you don't see the massive cycle of hatred and bigotry that you see elsewhere in the country. The challenge is that in conservative societies, anyone who questions the status of religion, clergy and caste will be suppressed or worse, punished and it's why religious polarisation is high in North India (or Pakistan and Bangladesh for that matter).

It's a catch 22 situation. You can't change a conservative society into a liberal society (or at least a liberal like society) without social reforms. But a highly conservative society will not be able to accept social reforms and anyone who attempts it would be perceived as a traitor to its culture and punished.

 

[Itachi]

Yeah no. It's been more than seven decades and the hatred has grown more, not less, particularly in north India which experienced the effects of partition.

A society doesn't change without social reform and without social reform, it just remains stagnant with a perpetual religious riots and polarisation. One of the reasons religious polarisation is far less down south despite it being in a third world region is because of atheist and anti caste social reformers who changed the thinking of an entire generation of people. Doesn't mean everyone down south is woke, it's still part of the third world, but at the very least, you don't see the massive cycle of hatred and bigotry that you see elsewhere in the country. The challenge is that in conservative societies, anyone who questions the status of religion, clergy and caste will be suppressed or worse, punished and it's why religious polarisation is high in North India (or Pakistan and Bangladesh for that matter).

It's a catch 22 situation. You can't change a conservative society into a liberal society (or at least a liberal like society) without social reforms. But a highly conservative society will not be able to accept social reforms and anyone who attempts it would be perceived as a traitor to its culture and punished.

North India is more polarized because those are the areas that suffered the most during partition. The violence left a scar which still exists today.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

North India is more polarized because those are the areas that suffered the most during partition. The violence left a scar which still exists today.

Partition happened the best part of a century ago. The scar should be healing, not festering and getting worse.

 

[Itachi]

Partition happened the best part of a century ago. The scar should be healing, not festering and getting worse.

The scars never heals because every time some clash happens, it will reignite again. But the horror that went through the time of partition, it inhibited the emotions.

But as I've said before, the effect of inhibition will wear off.

There is no absolute peace in this world.

Peace leads to chaos.

Chaos leads to peace.

Cycle continues.

 

[street cricketer]

The scars never heals because every time some clash happens, it will reignite again. But the horror that went through the time of partition, it inhibited the emotions.

But as I've said before, the effect of inhibition will wear off.

There is no absolute peace in this world.

Peace leads to chaos.

Chaos leads to peace.

Cycle continues.

The Germans did far worse to the Jews than whatever happened in partition to north India (the partition violence was bidirectional anyway).

Funny you don't see the Germans and jews going through this cycle of peace and choas you are describing. Perhaps they thought for the future and worked for progress rather than thinking constantly of the past and remaining in a self perpetuating cycle of hatred and bigotry.

 

[Itachi]

The Germans did far worse to the Jews than whatever happened in partition to north India (the partition violence was bidirectional anyway).

Funny you don't see the Germans and jews going through this cycle of peace and choas you are describing. Perhaps they thought for the future and worked for progress rather than thinking constantly of the past and remaining in a self perpetuating cycle of hatred and bigotry.

You are looking at events as isolated ones while I find them in a chain. This middle period is the "appeasement" period after which, the aggression from every country will grow more. You can even analyze the type of govts in different countries right now and check what propaganda they push. This will give you a more clear picture about what I am trying to say.

 

[MP2011]

"Open For Muslim Brothers" For Namaz: Gurgaon Gurdwara Body Opens Doors

Gurugram (Haryana): The Gurdwara association of Sadar Bazar in Gurugram has decided to offer its premises for Friday prayers following objections over the offering of namaz in public and open places.

"It's 'Guru Ghar', open for all communities with no discrimination. There shouldn't be any politics here. Basement is now open for Muslim brothers who want to offer 'Jumme ki namaz'," said Sherdil Singh Sidhu, President, Gurudwara Guru Singh Sabha, Sadar Bazar.

"If there's an open space, Muslims should be allowed to offer namaz. We shouldn't fight over such petty issues. People who were offering namaz in open sought administration's permission and those who had problems should have approached the administration before attacking them," he added.

Earlier, the Gurugram administration had withdrawn permission to offer namaz at eight out of 37 designated sites.

https://www.ndtv.com/gurgaon-news/g...ring-namaz-2615682#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

 

[MP2011]

More sanity coming from Gurgaon. Take that bigots!

 

[Itachi]

More sanity coming from Gurgaon. Take that bigots!

Its upon discretion of the local people. There is nothing right or wrong here. Each people should agree for what they are comfortable with. As long as it is non violence, I don't see it as issue.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

No one is addressing the elephant in the room as to why prayers are being held outside in the first place.

In last 8 years or so the number of mosques in the area have dwindled down from 19 to just 6-7 due to authorities shutting them down or certain right wing group forcibly taking over them on some technicality.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The keyword here is, "local residents".

The local residents has every right to complain against any activity which they may feel uncomfortable. You will require permission to gather large number of people in a public place (for prayer or any other activity) and if local residents object to it, then more or less it will be granted. It's same as playing loud music at your house or at organized party where even if you do have permission, upon complain from local residents, police may shut it down.

I see it's been given a religious perspective but in reality, this is just local residents taking steps for what they think is best for them.

The protestors seem to be more noisy and visible than the people they are protesting, which leads me to believe it is less benign than you think and perhaps more bigoted.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Some amazing stories about Hindus and Sikhs coming together to help the muslims against the actions of these fanatics. They are displaying extraordinary humanity and getting nothing in return. That is true altruism.

 

[MP2011]

Some amazing stories about Hindus and Sikhs coming together to help the muslims against the actions of these fanatics. They are displaying extraordinary humanity and getting nothing in return. That is true altruism.

This proves that we still have sane people left in India. Just that this sanity needs to be properly used during polls or else these bigots will keep returning to carry on with their bigotry filled agenda with bigger mandate.

 

[Lego20]

Law applied and executed by judges and juries who are going to from majority population I am guessing. Hmm...can't see how that might have any loopholes.

Oh so sad to hear. BTW, does the beacon of liberty, UK allow you to offer Namaz on the streets of London? Where is the outrage and protest there?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

"Open For Muslim Brothers" For Namaz: Gurgaon Gurdwara Body Opens Doors

Gurugram (Haryana): The Gurdwara association of Sadar Bazar in Gurugram has decided to offer its premises for Friday prayers following objections over the offering of namaz in public and open places.

"It's 'Guru Ghar', open for all communities with no discrimination. There shouldn't be any politics here. Basement is now open for Muslim brothers who want to offer 'Jumme ki namaz'," said Sherdil Singh Sidhu, President, Gurudwara Guru Singh Sabha, Sadar Bazar.

"If there's an open space, Muslims should be allowed to offer namaz. We shouldn't fight over such petty issues. People who were offering namaz in open sought administration's permission and those who had problems should have approached the administration before attacking them," he added.

Earlier, the Gurugram administration had withdrawn permission to offer namaz at eight out of 37 designated sites.

https://www.ndtv.com/gurgaon-news/g...ring-namaz-2615682#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

I personally know a Muslim-Pakistani-Punjabi 60-something year old dude who came to Europe a few decades ago. He didn't have any money and he didn't know anyone in a big city. He went to a gurdwara, they gave him food and a place to sleep inside the temple for as long as he needed to.

True story.

Next time I see him, I'll ask him to tell me the complete story and I'll update with details.

 

[Itachi]

The protestors seem to be more noisy and visible than the people they are protesting, which leads me to believe it is less benign than you think and perhaps more bigoted.

What you believe is your prerogative. That doesn't necessarily translate in to reality. I didn't state it as dangerous but uncomfortable. These are two different aspects and you are directing the discussion towards something that nowhere my post implies. That's a bit deceitful.

 

[MP2011]

I personally know a Muslim-Pakistani-Punjabi 60-something year old dude who came to Europe a few decades ago. He didn't have any money and he didn't know anyone in a big city. He went to a gurdwara, they gave him food and a place to sleep inside the temple for as long as he needed to.

True story.

Next time I see him, I'll ask him to tell me the complete story and I'll update with details.

Sikhs have always been people who are always ready to help others irrespective of their caste, religion, nationality.

 

[cric_man]

Amid namaz row, man offers shop for prayers in Gurgaon

Amid protests by some Gurgaon residents and right-wing groups against namaz in the open, a 40-year-old man, Akshay Yadav, has offered his vacant shop in Sector 12 to people from the Muslim community so they can pray there. According to him, prayers were offered by at least 15 people on the premises last Friday, and he is willing to extend the gesture for the future too.

The same day, on November 12, a right-wing outfit had camped at a previously agreed upon namaz site in Sector 12A, saying they will make a volleyball court there, while in Sarhaul, over 80 protesters had disrupted prayers by occupying a park.

The Sector 12 locality, where Yadav’s shop is, has witnessed protests in recent weeks from some local residents and members of the Sanyukta Hindu Sangharsh Samiti, which also organised a Govardhan Puja at the namaz site recently.

Yadav said he had been reading in newspapers about Friday prayers being disrupted, and discussed the issue with one of his tenants, Taufiq Ahmad. “I told him that I have an empty shop near my house which can be used for prayers. A lot of people from the Muslim community in this area work in the auto market and service stations nearby. I just hope for peace and harmony between the communities. The Constitution says that every citizen has a right to pray and no one can object to that,” he said.

The shop, approximately 1,000 square feet, is located near the telephone exchange on Old Delhi road in Sector 12 and has been lying empty for some time, said Yadav, who owns several properties in the area. He has a wildlife tours and travel business, he said, adding: “I am a businessman. I have no affiliation with any political party.”

“My family said that if our place is being used to offer prayers to any God, it is a good thing. I have lived in Gurgaon for decades and it has always been a place of harmony and brotherhood,” said Yadav.

https://indianexpress.com/article/c...n-offers-shop-for-prayers-in-gurgaon-7626467/

Love this.
This shows people can get along. A little tolerance and compassion goes a long way.

 

[PakLFC]

There are some rumors that after 9 11 some restaurants changed name/ some law offenders gave contradictory stories of origin etc.

Yes what you say is true not rumours. I am only talking on behalf off myself here. Indeed some Pakistanis are insecure about their background no thanks to the poor media coverage Pak receives. After 9/11 Muhammad became Mo and Shehzad became Shaz etc. This by and large was the case with most Muslim's not only Pakistanis. Arab's were victims of hate even more.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Unless there are no loudspeakers being used and there's no traffic obstruction, why is it an issue though?

You can't occupy public space with a huge gathering every week. Locals have every right to complain.

The thread title is a bit creative, making it look like namaz has been banned.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Muslims residents have previously objected to temple processions passing through their locality because they're against idolatry.

Do you agree with that as well?

Anyone can pass through a public road. But no one can take over public property.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Amid Sikh group’s opposition, namaz not held at gurdwara

The proposed token Friday prayers (Jumma Namaz) could not be offered at the Sadar gurdwara here after a Sikh group raised objections to “non-Sikh” religious activities inside a gurdwara.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...not-held-at-gurdwara/article37590555.ece/amp/

 

[PakLFC]

So Indian Muslim's need permission from the Hindu's to pray otherwise their place of worship will be violated. They can always go and beg the Sikh's to let them use the Gurdwara I suppose like we have seen recently. The genius that was Allama Iqbal foretold this decades back.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So Indian Muslim's need permission from the Hindu's to pray otherwise their place of worship will be violated. They can always go and beg the Sikh's to let them use the Gurdwara I suppose like we have seen recently. The genius that was Allama Iqbal foretold this decades back.

View attachment 113281

Indian Muslims can pray in their mosques, no one is bothered about that. They cant take over a public place for their prayers every week.

 

[Kroll]

Indian Muslims can pray in their mosques, no one is bothered about that. They cant take over a public place for their prayers every week.

Why not if these Indians are public?