Philander fined 75% of his match fee for ball tampering (Pics added post 145)

[sensible-indian-fan]

If you were the match-referee, how would you determine whether or not Philander did it absent-mindedly or on purpose? You would only charge someone if its intentional, right?

Some people said that Faf did it by accident, including his own team-mates like ABD. How would you distinguish between that?

The argument is NOT about match referee. A match referee can only take action based on rule books however ridiculous it may be.

The argument here is about ICC rules and the fact that this Philander incident isn't getting the highest punishment possible (here Philander should have got atleast 2 points - 1 match ban - the highest punishment if I am not wrong).

Reg Faf - Cmon dude. Faf did it via accident? Rubbing the ball strategically with your zipper located in some corner of your pant is accident? Seriously?

 

[EliteCynic]

I am just as obsessed with Sachin as you are of Amla. I was merely trying to bring a little perspective to your argument and looks like it worked.

I doubt anyone would go against his entire team if they wanted to tamper with the ball and FYI, he didn't play that test.



If you were the match-referee, how would you determine whether or not Philander did it absent-mindedly or on purpose? You would only charge someone if its intentional, right?

Some people said that Faf did it by accident, including his own team-mates like ABD. How would you distinguish between that?

I think it only looks like that to you mate. So what if Amla didn't play that test? Anyways, to each his own. I think this is a test of Amla's captaincy and his fight with his own conscience. This is a ruthless game and Amla is a very nice guy for that, ditto with Cook.

 

[JustAnotherFan]

Not to forget this is the second time in the space of few months. South Africa should be severely punished for this. I thought someone like Amla leading them would ensure that they don't indulge in such activities but that doesn't seem to be the case. He should pay close attention to the actions of his teammates.

Amla should be fined as well as how do we know that it wasn't a captain's decision?

 

[Buffet]

"Actually no. Wasim and Waqar were massive ball tamperers and never got banned" -- NZcricketfan

------

Not true. Waqar Younis was the first player ever at the Test and International level to be suspended and fined for tampering the ball. That happened in 2000.

It was a lot easier to get away with tampering even if you were using bottles caps in 80s/90s due to lack of so many cameras. It's increasingly difficult to tamper and not get caught now.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You can't root this sort of minor tampering out of the game. Fielders regularly throw the ball to the keeper by bouncing it first and the keeper can scuff the ball up with his gloves over an extended period of time too. Its become very common.

The serious incidents involving bottle-caps, biting and zippers should be rooted out though.

That is legal methods to get reverse swing. Even ball hitting your spikes and getting scratched is perfectly legal as long as it isn't intentional.

 

[Arsal_AK]

If you were the match-referee, how would you determine whether or not Philander did it absent-mindedly or on purpose? You would only charge someone if its intentional, right?

Some people said that Faf did it by accident, including his own team-mates like ABD. How would you distinguish between that?

That is a really poor argument.How can you accidentally temper the ball??If we go by this everybody will say that they didn't do it on purpose.

 

[Bilal7]

I think it only looks like that to you mate. So what if Amla didn't play that test? Anyways, to each his own. I think this is a test of Amla's captaincy and his fight with his own conscience. This is a ruthless game and Amla is a very nice guy for that, ditto with Cook.

Don't think Amla is going to lose sleep over Philander tampering in a cricket game.

However, his press conference will be interesting.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That is a really poor argument.How can you accidentally temper the ball??If we go by this everybody will say that they didn't do it on purpose.

No he is responding to my past post. Just see the prev post where I said ball tampering must be given strict punishment apart from minor cases like accidently brushing the seam and stuff.

Bilal is responding to that.

 

[Bilal7]

That is legal methods to get reverse swing. Even ball hitting your spikes and getting scratched is perfectly legal as long as it isn't intentional.

That is a really poor argument.How can you accidentally temper the ball??If we go by this everybody will say that they didn't do it on purpose.

It is extremely hard to determine what is done on purpose and what is intentional.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It is extremely hard to determine what is done on purpose and what is intentional.

Disagree. There are laws for that RIGHT NOW. Or else all reverse swing and ball preparation players must be charged.

 

[Bilal7]

The argument is NOT about match referee. A match referee can only take action based on rule books however ridiculous it may be.

The argument here is about ICC rules and the fact that this Philander incident isn't getting the highest punishment possible (here Philander should have got atleast 2 points - 1 match ban - the highest punishment if I am not wrong).

Reg Faf - Cmon dude. Faf did it via accident? Rubbing the ball strategically with your zipper located in some corner of your pant is accident? Seriously?

Its the match-referee who would determine what is intentional or not. How do you reckon he should do that other than turning into Professor Xavier and reading the minds of people?

He was lying when he said that but it was very hard to prove that he was. That is the problem with this intentional, accident thing.

 

[Bilal7]

Disagree. There are laws for that RIGHT NOW. Or else all reverse swing and ball preparation players must be charged.

Like?

Do you agree that fielders should be allowed to throw the ball on a bounce and that the keeper should be allowed to carry the ball back to the bowler? Or that players can eat toffees and use the sticky spit to prepare the ball? Or that all players should have to cut their nails before every match?

Where is the line?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Its the match-referee who would determine what is intentional or not. How do you reckon he should do that other than turning into Professor Xavier and reading the minds of people?

He was lying when he said that but it was very hard to prove that he was. That is the problem with this intentional, accident thing.

Intentional or not is NOT judged by what the player says or his facial expressions.

Its judged by the way he is rubbing the ball, how long he does it, what he does.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Like?

Do you agree that fielders should be allowed to throw the ball on a bounce and that the keeper should be allowed to carry the ball back to the bowler? Or that players can eat toffees and use the sticky spit to prepare the ball? Or that all players should have to cut their nails before every match?

Where is the line?

First part is legal (in certain cases as long as you strictly throw the ball back to keeper). Second part is illegal.

As per the laws now.

You are talking about line when there are laws CURRENTLY in place.

 

[90MPH]

Ball tampering happens all the time and will keep happening.

I really don't think it's a big issue - he got caught and got fined which is fair, though I do suspect had this been an Asian player the punishment would have been more heavy.

Look at the ridiculous size of cricket bats these days, the flat pitches, the small boundaries, fast outfields, the protection - everything totally in favour of the batsmen.

Even ball tampering is an art - you need the knowledge first and either high pace or good seam position with accuracy to be effective.
As long as no Forigen substance or object is involved it should be legalised, it will only add a more balance to the game. It probably won't happen for a long time though, given the controversy and emotion the subject brings

 

[BlackThunder]

I think you are obsessed with Sachin. Doesnt matter now coz that's history and yes his image did dent a little bit else you wouldn't have dragged his name into mud slinging here. This is happening now and i have posted on PP, thus sowing some seeds of perspective on Amla's role.

I haven't claimed he knew it. I'm also posing the same q. But with Faf being caught recently, I hardly think he is innocent.

As far as I see it its pretty simple if you don't want people taking shot at Sachin on a Pakistani site there was no need to bring Amla and his religious believes into the discussion. I know you gonna deny this but it was quite clear from your post why you were pointing a finger at Amla with absolute no evidence to back your claim.

On Topic: If the pitch is dead and there is no assistance for the bowlers I rather see the ball doing something than a boring one sided contest. As long as ICC is lenient on tampering and full sleeves (bending arms) bowlers and teams will take advantage of it.

 

[soso_killer]

Everyone tempers with the ball, but this is not acceptable especially from the best side in the world who are suppose to lead by example. Its even worse repeating the same offense within a year.

 

[EliteCynic]

As far as I see it its pretty simple if you don't want people taking shot at Sachin on a Pakistani site there was no need to bring Amla and his religious believes into the discussion. I know you gonna deny this but it was quite clear from your post why you were pointing a finger at Amla with absolute no evidence to back your claim.

On Topic: If the pitch is dead and there is no assistance for the bowlers I rather see the ball doing something than a boring one sided contest. As long as ICC is lenient on tampering and full sleeves (bending arms) bowlers and teams will take advantage of it.

No mate. You got me wrong. I don't care what PPers think of Sachin. I think in the same way you shouldn't care what I think of Amla. I just cannot tolerate double standards even if it is to protect your own team mates. for the record, I like him a lot but think he is too nice to be a capt.

 

[soso_killer]

However its interesting to see the amount comments the thread has generated from a match that no one is supposedly interested in.
Its generated almost the same number of comments as the match thread which was created over 3 days ago in less than 6 hours.
Maybe there's an agenda going on, but hey what do I know.

 

[Aman]

An absolute joke of a decision, it's the second time this is happened now a fine is not enough and it has never been enough..

 

[London_Lahori]

This is ridiculous. They're winning test matches from doing this, and what are they getting? A clip round the ear.

 

[Bilal7]

No mate. You got me wrong. I don't care what PPers think of Sachin. I think in the same way you shouldn't care what I think of Amla. I just cannot tolerate double standards even if it is to protect your own team mates. for the record, I like him a lot but think he is too nice to be a capt.

Double standards? When did he ever go out accusing other people of tampering?

 

[Bilal7]

However its interesting to see the amount comments the thread has generated from a match that no one is supposedly interested in.
Its generated almost the same number of comments as the match thread which was created over 3 days ago in less than 6 hours.
Maybe there's an agenda going on, but hey what do I know.

People can comment on ball-tampering without giving a rat's tail about the test match. I'm following it in bits though.

 

[Robert]

Second time now they have tampered on a flat track. If this was Pakistan there would be a public outrage. In before Asian victim mentality playing the race card.

Probably helped that he came clean and admitted his guilt.

 

[soso_killer]

People can comment on ball-tampering without giving a rat's tail about the test match. I'm following it in bits though.

People are definitely entitled to comment on whatever they like, no disputing that.
However I find "selective interest" interesting in itself. Picking and choosing is bordering on agendas one would say.

 

[Adil_94]

Probably helped that he came clean and admitted his guilt.

Still for two players in the same team to get caught for fixing in under a year it should get investigated. He probably admitted it so the rest of the team could get away with it. Plus they have Donald in the coaching staff who is an open supporter of ball tampering to level the playing field.

 

[PTI tsunami]

Cheats will be cheats

 

[BlackThunder]

Still for two players in the same team to get caught for fixing in under a year it should get investigated. He probably admitted it so the rest of the team could get away with it. Plus they have Donald in the coaching staff who is an open supporter of ball tampering to level the playing field.

Every team tampers but than again not every team has Steyn. If you take Steyn out of the equation this would be a non story. Reverse swing is not just about tampering it requires a lot of skills to execute it and right now Steyn seems to be the only one in the world who can take full advantage of it. The fine is good enough you shouldn't be punished for having a ATG bowler in your rank the same way Pakistan should not have been picked on for having Wasim and Waqar in their side.

 

[soso_killer]

Every team tampers but than again not every team has Steyn. If you take Steyn out of the equation this would be a non story. Reverse swing is not just about tampering it requires a lot of skills to execute it and right now Steyn seems to be the only one in the world who can take full advantage of it. The fine is good enough you shouldn't be punished for having a ATG bowler in your rank the same way Pakistan should not have been picked on for having Wasim and Waqar in their side.

This! Every team does it, every team tries to gain advantage over the other be it using chewing-gums, wearing long sleeves or roughning/throwing the ball across the surface etc. So we have to be mindful of being hypocrites especialy for a match that has hardly generated any interest.

However South Africa deserve harsh punishment for getting caught on camera twice in 12 months. The ICC needs to eradicate all forms of ball tampering from the game or allow teams smart enough to exploit the conditions of the ball to get on with it.

 

[lilFlip]

Cheaters.


Can't get Lankans out without cheating

 

[world cup captain]

This is over the top. The pitctes now days are going to make the bowlers work like dogs. Seriously, if the pitches are better only then ball tampering shouldn't be allowed. At this situation of the pitches, ball tampering should be legalized.

 

[Adil_94]

Every team tampers but than again not every team has Steyn. If you take Steyn out of the equation this would be a non story. Reverse swing is not just about tampering it requires a lot of skills to execute it and right now Steyn seems to be the only one in the world who can take full advantage of it. The fine is good enough you shouldn't be punished for having a ATG bowler in your rank the same way Pakistan should not have been picked on for having Wasim and Waqar in their side.

Twice now SA have tampered and twice Steyn has bowled two game changing spells of reverse swing. Steyn is an ATG why do the Saffers still feel the need to assist him this takes the gloss of his performance in the UAE and today slightly

 

[Glen77]

I say Indian bowlers should deliberately do it right in front of cameras.

And if they get caught and umpires try to ban them instead of imposing a fine on them, BCCI should apply external pressure, threaten to quit the tour (away tours), threaten to go after the umpires (in case of home tours), etc.

Then these ICC people will understand the situation.

as if Indian bowlers know how to reverse it with tampered ball

 

[Glen77]

Twice now SA have tampered and twice Steyn has bowled two game changing spells of reverse swing. Steyn is an ATG why do the Saffers still feel the need to assist him this takes the gloss of his performance in the UAE and today slightly

In UAE, it was Imran Tahir ripped apart Pakistan side.

Anyways even today, most of the wickets Steyn took weren't due to reverse swing.

 

[Varun]

Do they never learn?

I was giving Steyn stupendous credit for his 5-fer yesterday but I may have to think again. I even dissed Anderson claiming the general consensus that he's good only when the clouds come out. Which is still better than having nails, bottle caps and other unscrupulous items come out of the Saffer pockets.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

as if Indian bowlers know how to reverse it with tampered ball

Go and watch Shami's reverse bowling against WI.

Many Pak fans here were blown by what he did there in Kolkata.

Ishant can reverse the ball too (but he isn't as big a threat as Shami). Bhuvi can't.

 

[Glen77]

lol WI. How do we know Indian bowlers were doing it legally?

 

[Varun]

lol WI. How do we know Indian bowlers were doing it legally?

Doubt we'll be any good even if we tamper the ball but looking at the 'punishment' handed out it's worth a shot - I think that's the general point made.

 

[Glen77]

I don't care about ball tampering. Every team does it. Some of the so called past greats did it and admitted to doing it.

Ball tampering will make cricket competitive and eliminate flat pitches from subcontinent.

What we need to ban is chucking.

 

[Glen77]

Doubt we'll be any good even if we tamper the ball but looking at the 'punishment' handed out it's worth a shot - I think that's the general point made.

If Indian bowlers could do it (B)ICC would have made it legal

 

[Varun]

If Indian bowlers could do it (B)ICC would have made it legal

Thought this was a serious decision.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

lol WI. How do we know Indian bowlers were doing it legally?

Kolkata pitch is naturally abrasive. Very abrasive. So the ball gets scruffed up. All you need to do is maintain the ball properly and land it once or twice on the bounce to the keeper.

Anderson was getting very good reverse swing when he last played here.

 

[Glen77]

Anderson is a notorious tamperer of the ball and I am not sure Anderson or Shami can do it legally.
I believe Steyn can.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

yes, they do tamper the ball. if Dale Steyn is such a great bowler he should do it without tampering.

 

[James]

Amla needs to gain control of his team.

 

[soso_killer]

yes, they do tamper the ball. if Dale Steyn is such a great bowler he should do it without tampering.

If former great bowlers were so great why did they use glue, bottle caps and sand paper?
Ball tampering is nothing new (its been happening for over 30 years) nor has it seized to exist.
People are living in a cocoon here

 

[Convict]

If former great bowlers were so great why did they use glue, bottle caps and sand paper?
Ball tampering is nothing new (its been happening for over 30 years) nor has it seized to exist.
People are living in a cocoon here

Exactly. Everytime ball tampers and every team has specialist ball tamperers.

If you don't get caught red handed and you don't do it blatantly a blind eye is turned.

I'm comfortable with the fact that the umpires can check the ball and have it replaced if required.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

If former great bowlers were so great why did they use glue, bottle caps and sand paper?
Ball tampering is nothing new (its been happening for over 30 years) nor has it seized to exist.
People are living in a cocoon here

Should ball tampering be taught then , to make sure everyone is on a level playing field

 

[Glen77]

Should ball tampering be taught then , to make sure everyone is on a level playing field

Yes and should be taught not be caught

 

[soso_killer]

Should ball tampering be taught then , to make sure everyone is on a level playing field

The ICC needs to get its ducks in a row.
What is ball tampering, what is not?
There is grey area on what methods are accaptable to "work on the ball".
Teams do more than just polish and shine the ball. I've seen chemicals and hair sprays used.

 

[Glen77]

don't forget the mints and bottle caps

 

[SL_Fan]

Just a small fine should teach em! I mean what was it only few months back they were caught doing the same thing. Unintentionally of course! )

 

[Tusker]

How much was Sachin's nice guy image dented when he actively participated in the cheating? In this case, we have no idea if Amla knew what was happening.

not even a tiny bit ..... here is why : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6XMdZb-pYU

If that is ball tampering then using bottle caps should be called ball mauling ... ask the umpires and they will gladly do what SRT was doing ....

 

[SL_Fan]

not even a tiny bit ..... here is why : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6XMdZb-pYU

If that is ball tampering then using bottle caps should be called ball mauling ... ask the umpires and they will gladly do what SRT was doing ....

Of course that was ball tampering. Really? Umpires will pick the seam for teams? First time I've heard of it.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/496743.html

On the third day Tendulkar had bowled four overs of gentle medium pace but had almost immediately started swinging the ball more than any other bowler. The local TV producer instructed cameramen to zoom in on Tendulkar's hands, ostensibly to check what grip he was using. Instead, on two occasions he was spotted working on the seam of the ball with the thumb and forefinger of his left hand. The commentators went into overdrive and close-up replays were shown ad nauseam.

 

[SL_Fan]

Fines for these kinds of serious offenses are a joke really. It's just not going to work. Something like a 50-100 run penalty and suspensions that should be the way to go. That'll make teams think twice before resorting to this sort of behaviour. Some 5 run penalty and/or a small fine is laughable at best.

 

[Tusker]

Of course that was ball tampering. Really? Umpires will pick the seam for teams? First time I've heard of it.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/496743.html

Picking seam ? It will take a lot more to pick the seam than the 10 seconds. I see the urge to take pot shots at SRT is very evident. As it stands Denness got owned. And yes umpires will clean the ball snip any lose seam and such like if you ask them. If you think what Tendulkar did causes the ball to mis behave then lol

 

[Feroz Rawther]

if in today's heavy media coverage times this is the case, then i wonder what would have been the magnitude of tampering in the 80s & 90s , especially 80s where there was very little media coverage compared to these times.

 

[Glen77]

if in today's heavy media coverage times this is the case, then i wonder what would have been the magnitude of tampering in the 80s & 90s , especially 80s where there was very little media coverage compared to these times.

remember Imran?

 

[Feroz Rawther]

remember Imran?

no.... i am saying about a lot others

 

[Buffet]

if in today's heavy media coverage times this is the case, then i wonder what would have been the magnitude of tampering in the 80s & 90s , especially 80s where there was very little media coverage compared to these times.

You could probably use bottle caps and get away easily in those times.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

You could probably use bottle caps and get away easily in those times.

then it can be easily assumed that 'greatness' of some of so called 'greats' were not only because of their
natural ability but based on bottle caps too

 

[Jo_Don]

then it can be easily assumed that 'greatness' of some of so called 'greats' were not only because of their
natural ability but based on bottle caps too

I think people need to get over it TBH. Anyone who's ever played cricket at any level knows that it happens, whether it's Vaseline, bottle caps or studs. What needs to happen is better regulation. The ICC needs to be honest with themselves and legalize it, as long as the ball does not become dangerous and unpredictable.

 

[Buffet]

then it can be easily assumed that 'greatness' of some of so called 'greats' were not only because of their
natural ability but based on bottle caps too

True but you still need ability to use bottle caps or whatever to your advantage. Not all bowlers can do that.

 

[Saj]

It begs the question though just how many matches have South Africa won over the years as a result of this cheating?

Also how many times have they managed to get away with it, as they would have done in this match if it wasn't for the tv producer.

 

[cricfan967]

Took some screenshots when they aired it live yesterday.

 

[Saj]

[MENTION=42414]cricfan967[/MENTION] Thanks for the pictures.

Clear cut and demining evidence.

How on earth did he get away with just a fine !

 

[mithun_minhas]

WTH!!!

Clear ball tampering there from above pics.

 

[Buffet]

WTH!!!

Clear ball tampering there from above pics.

That's why he didn't even contest.

 

[test_fan]

Saffers have a history of ball tampering. Remember Symcox? lol

 

[Stark]

Saffers have a history of ball tampering. Remember Symcox?

That is not ball tampering. He is using the sweat from his underarms.
Pretty disgusting imo.

Fanie De Villeres used to do the same.

True but you still need ability to use bottle caps or whatever to your advantage. Not all bowlers can do that.

That really is weak. The bowler is tampering with the ball in any case.
How the person utilizes the loaded ball is entirely a different issue.

 

[test_fan]

That is not ball tampering. He is using the sweat from his underarms.
Pretty disgusting imo.

Fanie De Villeres used to do the same.

He was picking the seam at the start of the video and also it is very easy to do funny things with the ball when it is hidden.

 

[Fastandfurious]

Saffers have a history of ball tampering. Remember Symcox? lol

That's disgusting lol.

 

[SL_Fan]

And just a little slap on the wrist for it. I'm sure they have learnt their lesson. Good work ICC.

 

[SL_Fan]

I think people need to get over it TBH. Anyone who's ever played cricket at any level knows that it happens, whether it's Vaseline, bottle caps or studs. What needs to happen is better regulation. The ICC needs to be honest with themselves and legalize it, as long as the ball does not become dangerous and unpredictable.

Looking after and conditioning the ball is one thing. Using zippers and finger nails etc is totally different.

 

[Buffet]

Looking after and conditioning the ball is one thing. Using zippers and finger nails etc is totally different.

It was a clear tampering.

 

[cricfan967]

And just a little slap on the wrist for it. I'm sure they have learnt their lesson. Good work ICC.

A 75% match fee fine seriously is a joke, I doubt it would even be taken seriously by the team.

 

[SL_Fan]

A 75% match fee fine seriously is a joke, I doubt it would even be taken seriously by the team.

Beyond a joke bro. As if it can even be considered a punishment. The bare minimum should be a one match ban.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

True but you still need ability to use bottle caps or whatever to your advantage. Not all bowlers can do that.

when 'using bottle caps' itself is 'cheating ' at first hand , ability to use bottle caps or whatever to your advantage do not count from a 'moral' perspective.in that case i for one just can't take the credibility of such players as such.i am sure i am not alone.

 

[soso_killer]

Saffers have a history of ball tampering. Remember Symcox? lol

Lol what's he doing

 

[thivaakar]

Took some screenshots when they aired it live yesterday.

I still think many of the players somehow "ball tamper" and its just Vernon got caught.