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Picking that middle order for the national side is a sackable offense

ethan hunt

ethan hunt

First Class Captain
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
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5,518
How can you let people who average around 20 in domestic cricket bat in the middle order for the national team.
Its embarrasing really. Pakistan has a decent cricketing history and surely some accountability is needed.
How is the cricket board okay with the think tank.?
 
It truly is. Danish, Shadab and Asif at 5, 6 and 7. Is this some kind of bad joke?
 
ethan hunt said:
How can you let people who average around 20 in domestic cricket bat in the middle order for the national team.
Its embarrasing really. Pakistan has a decent cricketing history and surely some accountability is needed.
How is the cricket board okay with the think tank.?
Click to expand...

Saud Shakeel injured. Not sure why Haris was not selected.
 
Selection has been awful but a lot of the blame lies with the team management.. you have Haider ali on the bench
 
You have haider ali. Just develop him ***.
What are you gonna get from playing danish, asif and shadab in the middle order of the national side.
 
Misbah is shameless; I never expect him to go away with dignity. He is a very money and power-hungry individual who is all about portraying himself as some sort of wizard.
 
Huh? This is a strong ODI team?

After the top 4 of Imam/Fakhar/Babar/Rizwan, do they even have a single reliable batsmen after that? Aziz's List A track record is mediocre. Asif Ali averages in domestic in general are closer to a tail ender than an actual batsmen. Haider Ali might be good but he is also really young and early into his career so he's a complete wild card. They should have added Haris instead of Aziz after Saud's injury and it wouldn't surprise me if that comes back to haunt them.

To me, it looks like a team that we may see very easily collapse and put up low totals as a result. They struggle a lot in SENA conditions anyways so I can easily see the ODI's going extremely poorly. Certainly can't see them chasing big totals if South Africa scores big.
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http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Pre-Match-Discussion&p=11149153#post11149153

I for one, am shocked that this very predictable did in fact come true.
 
Only one of Danish or Asif could have played at max in the XI. They made the mistake in the first ODI but, the infatuation of carrying the same playing XI meant no change in 2nd ODI as well.
 
There have been poor squad selections in the past, but I can't remember one that is as bad as this one . . absolutely clueless!!
How can you select that squad for a ODI tournamnet?! Even the T20 squad is a disgrace . .

and is there no one in the Pak setup who can say how ridiculous this squad is?!
 
If you average 35+ in FC and 45+ in OD, only then should you be given a chance in LOI.

Otherwise tough luck, no matter how talented you are and I'm being generous with the 35 FC average because it should ideally be 38+!
 
Misbah always finds a way to play atleast two duds in the lineup. I was thinking it will be difficult with this squad but he has found a way.
 
No need to be so dramatic. These guys were given their chance and failed to impress, which means that they will be dropped. I personally want to see Danish be given one more go but Asif Ali is a bonafide, low-quality hack. This is it for him, in ODIs at least.
 
Probably amongst Pakistan's weakest middle-order ever in a ODI.

Who will take responsibility for this though?
 
aliasad1998 said:
It truly is. Danish, Shadab and Asif at 5, 6 and 7. Is this some kind of bad joke?
Click to expand...

I was hearing many positives about Danish, all of a sudden he is useless now?

I believe Haider should be in the middle order or near the top. Other than that, there do not seem to be many options.
 
Harris sohail who avges in his 40s in odis is deemed not good enough for a spot

Imad avges in 40s too

That middle order is tailenderish

Its top order or bust at the moment
 
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Any sort of batsman in there would have done the job. When Fakhar scores a century, you usually win the game.
 
I don't understand how with 4 Frontline bowlers and wk-bat shadab is still batting in middle order? How is Pakistan a bowler short as well as a batsmen short lol
 
Waseem n misbah both should be sacked for that. Weakest 5 6 7 combo ive seen for Pakistan ever
 
Obviously we have the most innovative mantra in the world called 'wanning cumbination'. How can you go against that?
 
Zaz said:
Harris sohail who avges in his 40s in odis is deemed not good enough for a spot

Imad avges in 40s too

That middle order is tailenderish

Its top order or bust at the moment
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Haris Sohail averages 46.80 in ODIs, has 2 hundreds and 14 fifties in 41 innings, has scores of 71, 56, 40, 68 & 89 in 5 out of his last 7 ODIs
 
Usually we have a lot of people overeacting after debacles like this but this time I wouldn’t say that.

We’re a mediocre team there’s no arguing about that but this middle order is atrocious even considering the lacklustre batsmen we have in disposal.
 
Barragan said:
If you average 35+ in FC and 45+ in OD, only then should you be given a chance in LOI.

Otherwise tough luck, no matter how talented you are and I'm being generous with the 35 FC average because it should ideally be 38+!
Click to expand...

Well Said. We should make it a law so these pathetic team selector can not do these pathetic team selections.
 
Bilal7 said:
No need to be so dramatic. These guys were given their chance and failed to impress, which means that they will be dropped. I personally want to see Danish be given one more go but Asif Ali is a bonafide, low-quality hack. This is it for him, in ODIs at least.
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One more go. Are you joking?. He can score double century and I will still drop him. He is just a kid and he needs to prove himself and international arena is not the platform
 
Welcome to Byzantine world of Pakistan cricket. There is always more to it than meets the eye. Old foxes like Misbah and Waqar are much too experienced to make these mistakes. I think what you are seeing here is power struggle between management and selectors. Mohd Wasim wanted to assert his importance so he dropped Imad - an important member of the playing brain trust. Management responded by playing patsies who had no hope of ever succeeding in these conditions. Gamble probably is that last match would be easier with S.A. players leaving for IPL. Should be Pak vs SA but instead we have to deal with Misbah vs. Wasim
 
Misbah makes some weird decisions. No logic behind it at all.

Why would you field Asif Ali, a top class failure, in an ODI side? Why would you drop Haider Ali? Why can't you include M Hafeez when he is already there?

Why would you field 5 tailenders? What happened to Hasan Ali?

I don't understand where Misbah is willing to go.
 
Saj said:
Haris Sohail averages 46.80 in ODIs, has 2 hundreds and 14 fifties in 41 innings, has scores of 71, 56, 40, 68 & 89 in 5 out of his last 7 ODIs
Click to expand...

Plus, he can bowl pretty decently too. The problem will be trying to fit Imam, Babar, Rizwan and Haris in the same ODI side.
 
Spot on. This middle order is a joke. Misbah defensive mindset has really destroyed Pakistan cricket.
 
Pakistan missed hafeez in that middle order

And they missed sharjeel at the top .

Probably gave 20/30 runs too much to south africa , mainly because shadab has been so poor in being economical in the middle overs


Nevertheless we were playing with 3 duds in the lineup , a spectacled snail who can't play the short ball at the top , another one who can't play short ball a club level player aziz , and someone who is a complete street hack and is masquerading around like some fake butler
 
It’s this desire for ‘specialists’. With Zaman and Haris Sohail, we comfortably have 7 bowling options covered in ODIs and space for Imad.

Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Rizwan
Haris
Haider
Imad
Faheem
Hassan
Hasnain
Shaheen

That’s a solid team. Imad could even go to 8 and drop Faheem for a better batsman at 7 if needed.
 
I dislike Misbah as much as the next guy, but we need to understand that it's the captain who leads the team on the field and should have the ultimate say in the playing XI. Everyone knows Misbah's lack of vision when it comes to selection, but here Babar is to be blamed more. If he cannot see what's wrong with this middle order, then no purpose blaming Misbah.
 
Snowflake said:
I dislike Misbah as much as the next guy, but we need to understand that it's the captain who leads the team on the field and should have the ultimate say in the playing XI. Everyone knows Misbah's lack of vision when it comes to selection, but here Babar is to be blamed more. If he cannot see what's wrong with this middle order, then no purpose blaming Misbah.
Click to expand...

Babar actually demanded Haris Sohail, and opposed these petty selections that we have in the middle. I am 100% sure that Asif Ali was selected purely because of Misbah.
 
Are top 4 looks well settled, however there comes a point where batting 5 to 8 have to win you games or set up big totals.

Our tail starts at 5 its pathetic and we have under 2 years till world cup and this mess needs sorting and quickly.
 
Bilal7 said:
Plus, he can bowl pretty decently too. The problem will be trying to fit Imam, Babar, Rizwan and Haris in the same ODI side.
Click to expand...

That’s not a problem.

Proper batsman should play over hacks.
 
If only we had the vision to develop Haider the way SA has developed Van Der Dussen, we would have been in a much better position. Haider must play whether he scores or not, he has potential, he will learn, just don't waste time with hacks like Asif who doesn't have any shots in his books.

Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Haris
Haider
Rizwan
Faheem
Imad
Hassan
Shaheen
Hasnain

Imagine this XI in this match, we would have had much solidity and better options to chase today's mammooth target.
 
mastimasti said:
I was hearing many positives about Danish, all of a sudden he is useless now?

I believe Haider should be in the middle order or near the top. Other than that, there do not seem to be many options.
Click to expand...

People spoke positives about Danish because he had some performances in domestic cricket and with the A-team, but you don't give him a debut in South Africa of all places. You test out new players against weaker teams or at home, so they can play under less pressure and don't cost you games in case they fail. The same was done with Abdullah Shafique. Maybe these guys are good enough or maybe they aren't, that is besides the point, this just isn't how you give new guys a go.

Shadab is a liability with the ball these days and his batting in ODIs isn't good enough to keep him in the team. Given the resources I think it's best to get in Usman Qadir as a proper spinner, replace Asif with Haider and maybe consider Sarfraz in place of Danish.

But all things considered, with the depleted South African squad in the next game though we should still, hopefully, manage to win the series. Would be very disappointing if we couldn't.
 
Attiq_Lone said:
Babar actually demanded Haris Sohail, and opposed these petty selections that we have in the middle. I am 100% sure that Asif Ali was selected purely because of Misbah.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then Babar has no business leading the side. If he doesn't get the players he needs, he shouldn't be responsible to lead the team. Fine if there are a few selections in the squad that are not your choices, but At least put your foot down when it comes to playing XI!!! How in the world can a player, who wasn't even in the squad to begin with, gets priority over those in the original selection???
 
This probably deserves a thread of its own, but is it just me or did Mohammed Hasnain in the few balls he batted today look like one of the best upcoming batting talents in Pakistan ? What gorgeous strokes he played in that cameo of 12.

I reckon a couple of weekends of solid coaching on his batting and Hasnain could easily bat at 5 for Pakistan and regularly score attractive 20s and 30s and easily replace Asif Ali and Iftikhar Ali.
 
Everyone knows we have better players than Danish, Asif and Shadab so how come the selectors and team management can get away from this?

I would have even played Sarfraz as a pure batsman over Asif, and when you have Haider Ali it’s just irritating not to see him play over Asif.
 
IAJ said:
Everyone knows we have better players than Danish, Asif and Shadab so how come the selectors and team management can get away from this?

I would have even played Sarfraz as a pure batsman over Asif, and when you have Haider Ali it’s just irritating not to see him play over Asif.
Click to expand...
Someone needs to tell Imran Khan about the nepotism going on in the PCB.
 
Attiq_Lone said:
If only we had the vision to develop Haider the way SA has developed Van Der Dussen, we would have been in a much better position. Haider must play whether he scores or not, he has potential, he will learn, just don't waste time with hacks like Asif who doesn't have any shots in his books.

Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Haris
Haider
Rizwan
Faheem
Imad
Hassan
Shaheen
Hasnain

Imagine this XI in this match, we would have had much solidity and better options to chase today's mammooth target.
Click to expand...

That’s a good side, might change the order slightly - a shame we don’t have a wicket taking spinner in the ranks
 
Saj said:
Probably amongst Pakistan's weakest middle-order ever in a ODI.

Who will take responsibility for this though?
Click to expand...

Where is the middle order? There is no middle order in this team!

Also . . clearly in the dressing room, someone said . . Haider isn't ready to play in ODIs . . he's too rash or whatever . . but probably the same genius thought Danish Aziz is ready . .

What on earth . . . . . .
 
Embarrassing stuff.

Clearly there is a lot of favouritism going on regarding the selections otherwise these tried and tested failures wouldn’t keep getting a gig despite the abysmal stats they have.

That’s why I wanted Micky to stay as coach because he wouldn’t put up with this **.

Misbah either has a hand in this or or is shrugging his shoulders.
 
Majid Khan said:
This probably deserves a thread of its own, but is it just me or did Mohammed Hasnain in the few balls he batted today look like one of the best upcoming batting talents in Pakistan ? What gorgeous strokes he played in that cameo of 12.

I reckon a couple of weekends of solid coaching on his batting and Hasnain could easily bat at 5 for Pakistan and regularly score attractive 20s and 30s and easily replace Asif Ali and Iftikhar Ali.
Click to expand...

It’s embarrassing that the management would send him at 11, they surely must have known his hitting abilities ?
Ridiculous stuff, if he came earlier with Fakhar who knows.

We never plan, always react when it’s too late.
 
The chief selector literary said he doesn’t want the coach or captains input. I’m not saying Misbah is a great coach. But it’s pathetic how our fans are blaming him for everything. We have done well in these 2 ODIs, if we got thrashed in both games you people would be blaming Misbah for that. But when we compete well you still wanna blame Misbah.

Some people’s agenda is more important than anything it seems.
 
Absolutely.

To not have Haris Sohail and Imad Wasim in there is just shocking.

Wasim is already a cancer to Pakistan cricket.
 
Didn't Haider get one of the last games on the Eng tour and everyone was left wondering why he wasn't played earlier?

Are we going to do the same here or go one up and just not play him at all?

So glad to see the management learning from its mistakes. 🙃

Gosh, I hate the Misbah/Waqar combo so much and such a dheema captain like Babar is recipe for disaster
 
Dropping Haris despite his form makes sense considering his fitness and lack of conviction to improve his game. But he would have been very useful in this game and series. Danish Aziz has been chucked into the deep end. He's making his debut in this series and twice has been beaten by the short bowl. After this game I couldn't help but think he should either be dropped, go work on his game and come back or persisted with as he's just making his debut.

However I agree, this middle order is very weak. Bringing in Haider Ali and even bringing Faheem up the order would improve it. Asif Ali has looked lost and culpable.
 
Hasan123 said:
The chief selector literary said he doesn’t want the coach or captains input. I’m not saying Misbah is a great coach. But it’s pathetic how our fans are blaming him for everything. We have done well in these 2 ODIs, if we got thrashed in both games you people would be blaming Misbah for that. But when we compete well you still wanna blame Misbah.

Some people’s agenda is more important than anything it seems.
Click to expand...

We did well in this game? Does Fakhar represent the entire team? Bowlers give away 330+, One guy scores more than half the runs, and we've done well? This was a pathetic performance.
 
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We Bleed Green said:
Well Said. We should make it a law so these pathetic team selector can not do these pathetic team selections.
Click to expand...

You're right it does need to be made a law.

Too many stupid selections and the selectors don't seem to understand the value of domestic performances either.
 
Hold your horses. Chacha will be back to strengthen that middle order in next series.
 
jusarrived said:
I don't understand how with 4 Frontline bowlers and wk-bat shadab is still batting in middle order? How is Pakistan a bowler short as well as a batsmen short lol
Click to expand...

Asif Ali and Haris Rauf. The two worst cricketers to have played international cricket.
 
1. Fakhar
2. Sharjeel
3. Babar
4. Rizwan
5. Saud
6. Haider
7. Fahim
8. Usman
9. Hasan
10. Hasnain/Haris
11. Shaheen

This should be playing 11 if you want to win matches and chase 300+ and same 11 should be played in 2023 world cup with extra spinner like zahid on subcontinent wickets
 
Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Haider, Danish, Shadab, Faheem was the batting lineup I was hoping for going into this game.

Going into the series, however, I was hoping to see Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Saud, Haider, Shadab, Faheem. Much more solidity in this lineup.
 
Snowflake said:
We did well in this game? Does Fakhar represent the entire team? Bowlers give away 330+, One guy scores more than half the runs, and we've done well? This was a pathetic performance.
Click to expand...

Well we ran them close at least. And the bowlers bowling poorly isn’t always the coaches fault.
 
Clearly the management and selector are not happy working together. Haider who was selected ahead of asif in the orginal squad wasnt played by the management
 
Hasan123 said:
Well we ran them close at least. And the bowlers bowling poorly isn’t always the coaches fault.
Click to expand...

Ran them close only because of one player. The rest of the line-up totally failed which is 100% on the management given that they played such a useless middle order.
 
Snowflake said:
Ran them close only because of one player. The rest of the line-up totally failed which is 100% on the management given that they played such a useless middle order.
Click to expand...

The chief selector is the one who selected Aziz and Asif Ali. You should be blaming him for that.
 
We've had some fantastic batsmen batting in these positions over the years.

It's incredible that we have stopped to such lows that our middle order consists of such mentally weak and poor batsmen.
 
Now this Misbah will play Haider ali and Nawaz in the next game, if haider ali fails, will say see he will fail that is why we didn’t play him. The next series he will, be dropped and say he needs to get trained in NCA. These ODI series will be perfect for him and shafiq to gain experience.

Misbah and Waqar will close out careers for them.

Please sack Misbah and Waqar for the sake of Pakistan cricket.

MA would even cry to see what these buffoons are doing. He did so much form a modern OdI team with the limited resource he had, because Hafeez and Malik were blocking two spots for him try anyone in that place.
 
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The ideal middle order (considering the current form) should be:

5- Haris
6- Hafeez
7- Imad

All of them are utility players who can accelerate towards the end in batting and can provide 15 to 20 good bowling overs between them.

They should be followed by the following lower order:

8- Usman Qadir / Faheem (depending on conditions. Faheem can be used outside Asia and Qadir can be used in Asia).
9- Hasan
10- Hasnain / Rauf
11- Shaheen

Now look at the following team, which is a clear improvement on the current team:

1- Imam
2- Fakhar
3- Babar
4- Rizwan
5- Haris
6- Hafeez
7- Imad
8- Qadir
9- Hasan
10- Hasnain
11- Shaheen

4 proper bowling options in Qadir, Hasan, Hasnain and Shaheen
3 all-round options in Imad, Hafeez and Haris who are very capable of bowling 15 - 20 good overs. Remember that the world cup is in India and Pakistan will need spin bowling all-rounders in that more than pace bowling all-rounders.
6 proper batsmen
7,8,9 can also bat which increases the batting depth
 
Haider Ali can definitely play a role down the order. But aside from him we don’t have a ready made player for that role. We are just going to have hit and hope someone comes good.
 
cricketerB94 said:
1- Imam
2- Fakhar
3- Babar
4- Rizwan
5- Haris
6- Hafeez
7- Imad
8- Qadir
9- Hasan
10- Hasnain
11- Shaheen
Click to expand...

Agree that looks a very good all round team on paper The middle order looks infinetly stronger and reliable
 
Snowflake said:
CS selected Haider in front of Asif. CS has no role in deciding playing XI.
Click to expand...

Asif Ali was not in the ODI squad until Saud Shakeel got injured. And also how do you know Babar didn’t want Asif Ali instead of Haider Ali?

People like you will look for any reason to blame Misbah.
 
b.lesner said:
1. Fakhar
2. Sharjeel
3. Babar
4. Rizwan
5. Saud
6. Haider
7. Fahim
8. Usman
9. Hasan
10. Hasnain/Haris
11. Shaheen

This should be playing 11 if you want to win matches and chase 300+ and same 11 should be played in 2023 world cup with extra spinner like zahid on subcontinent wickets
Click to expand...

Would include Shoaib Maqsood. and Haris in this squad - otherwise solid...

Imagine Fakhur and Sharjeel opening and in full flow -- that be some sight
 
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Hasan123 said:
Asif Ali was not in the ODI squad until Saud Shakeel got injured. And also how do you know Babar didn’t want Asif Ali instead of Haider Ali?

People like you will look for any reason to blame Misbah.
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Right, he wasn't. But Haider was already there. So, Haider should technically play ahead of him as he's in the primary squad. Doesn't make sense to play a replacement player ahead of an original selection, unless the CS and management aren't on the same page. Asif has Misbah's backing, that is common knowledge, hence the blame. If Babar supported the decision or did not object to it, he is to blame too
 
Kaka4pope said:
It’s this desire for ‘specialists’. With Zaman and Haris Sohail, we comfortably have 7 bowling options covered in ODIs and space for Imad.

Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Rizwan
Haris
Haider
Imad
Faheem
Hassan
Hasnain
Shaheen

That’s a solid team. Imad could even go to 8 and drop Faheem for a better batsman at 7 if needed.
Click to expand...
Cant drop Rauf after that stellar performance.

Also need to find a slot for the awesome Qadir.
 
Danish is still new and needs more time to prove himself but please, for the love of god drop Asif Ali. He’s simply not good enough and I don’t know why he was selected.
 
Danish looks bad, but he's new.

Asif, Faheem and Shadab are passengers nearly every game. Asif can score at a decent SR, but you're carrying a batsman with a mid 20 average who will come off 1 in 10. If Pakistan need to dig deep and forge out a score he's useless. He's only potentially useful for quick runs off a solid foundation. And he can't bowl. Imad does his job better and can bowl. Haider can already score runs quickly, one of the few in Pakistan that can match Asif's striking ability (the one thing Asif has) and might develop into a very good reliable batsman.

Shadab and Faheem can't bowl, bat or get quick runs down the order. Shadab can't score at a quick SR, Faheem can't hit from ball one. The only use they serve is to fill in some overs to give rest to the main pacers. Which isn't enough of a contribution to the team. I was impressed with Shadab early in his career, but he's gone downhill, someone else deserves a shot now.

It is the same story with all three of these guys they have the odd stellar performance and then go missing the rest of the games. If we want to become a consistently strong side, we can't be relying on these sort of inconsistent players.
 
Asif ali should be dropped for the last game and haider ali should play.
 
What about the middle order today.
How is that middle order preperation for the world cup. Yes they may win today but seriously how is that an international quality middle order.
 
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