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[PICTURE] The home team bully factor, Would Pakistan be too dominant in Champions Trophy 2025 or just as awful as always?

Would Pakistan be a home bully too in Champions Trophy 2025?

  • Total voters
    63
It depends on where Pakistan plays these teams to be honest.

On a turning Karachi pitch, everyone can beat Pakistan. Including BD and Afghans.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
It depends on where Pakistan plays these teams to be honest.

On a turning Karachi pitch, everyone can beat Pakistan. Including BD and Afghans.
Click to expand...
I'll be in Lahore for Ct 2025. I can confidently say Lahore/ Gadafi pitch is basically whoever has the stronger batting team wins.

And Pakistan does not have the strongest batting team. So even in Lahore their at a disadvantage. If they suck up their ego and actually play abrar and decide to play home born karachi batters like saud shakeel then they have a better chance in Karachi then in Lahore.

They'll get outgunned in Lahore
 
mominsaigol said:
I'll be in Lahore for Ct 2025. I can confidently say Lahore/ Gadafi pitch is basically whoever has the stronger batting team wins.

And Pakistan does not have the strongest batting team. So even in Lahore their at a disadvantage. If they suck up their ego and actually play abrar and decide to play home born karachi batters like saud shakeel then they have a better chance in Karachi then in Lahore.

They'll get outgunned in Lahore
Click to expand...

Chasing teams have a huge advantage in Lahore because of the dew. Id say whoever chases will win there.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Chasing teams have a huge advantage in Lahore because of the dew. Id say whoever chases will win there.
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That is true. However their is a thing known as skill gap.

If Pakistan goes with a similar line up that they did in 2023 of

1) Abdullah
2) Imam/Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Rizwan
5) Saud
6) Chacha
7) Shadab

Then they'll lose every time against a top side unless Fakhar fires.

They need an explosive lineup, not a test lineup
 
B3cause of homr conditions Pakistan will certainly qualify for super 8 this time.

Otherwise they may not have made it or at least didn't deserve to.
 
When has Pakistan been a home bully in recent times? They have hardly won at home against good opposition and the pitches in Pakistan mean that they will be at disadvantage actually. They have more chances of doing well if they played in UAE or in Bangladesh.
 
giri26 said:
When has Pakistan been a home bully in recent times? They have hardly won at home against good opposition and the pitches in Pakistan mean that they will be at disadvantage actually. They have more chances of doing well if they played in UAE or in Bangladesh.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you are right. Pakistan is not a team that knows how to take the home advantage. They should have dominated at home like most teams do but instead, they keep on losing games.

So there is no home advantage for Pakistan even though they are going to be playing at home because they are not intelligent enough to use the home conditions.
 
Have Pakistan been dominant at home in last 2-3 years? How many series have they won?
 
Large boundaries and cut the grass thick, really slow outfield. Will help the permanently tired legged fielders (eg. Chacha, Imad) to chase the ball.
 
I don’t see Pakistan winning games after the USA thrashing and this thread is talking about us bullying teams :LOL:

This defeat will pretty much end our cricketers I feel.
 
shortbread said:
Large boundaries and cut the grass thick, really slow outfield. Will help the permanently tired legged fielders (eg. Chacha, Imad) to chase the ball.
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OR

Hold a thorough 2 month camp before the tournament by having a shortlisted pool of players go through rigorous fielding and fitness training, run by experts (aka not army drill instructors). To be competitive the fielding, running between wickets, jumping, diving.... all needs to make massive progress. Associate sides like Scotland, USA are far better fielding units than Pakistan. This cannot be allowed to continue. This is a low hanging fruit and can be fixed in a short period of time.
 
This trophy isn't happening in Pakistan.

Lol @ optimism.
 
Question: Has pakistan ever been dominant? Even at their very peak did they dominate and played ruthlessly? I doubt it.
 
Mohsin Naqvi must do a Jay sheh here. Pre tournament seedlings, tailor made pitches for Pakistan and arrange domestic tournaments there with top performers making into the side. Only then PCT would have a chance to compete with others.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Such a tournament would be nothing but a failure for Mohsin administration.
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I look at it from a different angle. A hybrid tournament is actually the least that would be expected under any administration. If the Mohsin administration can actually pull it off, however, and the CT ends up happening in Pak, then it should be regarded as a huge success. I despise this regime but by default, it should not be expected for the tournament to happen in Pakistan. If it does, it's an incredible feat.
 
Unless Pakistan gets high quality spinner , it would be tough for them to win CT.

Pakistan's bowlers in ODI since 2020. Spinners barely did anything.
PlayerSpanMatWktsAvgEconSR4W
Naseem Shah2022-2023
14​
32​
16.96​
4.68​
21.7​
0​
Wahab Riaz2020-2020
2​
5​
21.2​
5.38​
23.6​
1​
Mohammad Wasim2022-2023
20​
34​
25.17​
5.33​
28.2​
1​
Shaheen Shah Afridi2020-2023
34​
64​
25.67​
5.56​
27.6​
2​
Haris Rauf2020-2023
37​
69​
26.4​
5.95​
26.5​
4​
Mohammad Hasnain2020-2023
4​
7​
27.71​
5.36​
31​
0​
Mohammad Nawaz2021-2023
22​
25​
36​
5.02​
42.9​
2​
Saud Shakeel2021-2023
15​
1​
37​
4.72​
47​
0​
Hasan Ali2021-2023
13​
18​
39.05​
6.59​
35.5​
1​
Usama Mir2023-2023
12​
15​
42.26​
5.98​
42.4​
1​
Iftikhar Ahmed2020-2023
24​
15​
42.73​
5.84​
43.8​
0​
Imad Wasim2020-2020
2​
2​
46​
6.13​
45​
0​
Shadab Khan2021-2023
27​
26​
46.53​
5.58​
50​
2​
Usman Qadir2021-2021
1​
1​
48​
5.33​
54​
0​
Muhammad Musa2020-2020
2​
2​
50.5​
6.24​
48.5​
0​
Zahid Mahmood2022-2022
4​
4​
55​
6.11​
54​
0​
Khushdil Shah2020-2022
10​
2​
61​
6.77​
54​
0​
Shahnawaz Dahani2022-2022
2​
1​
73​
4.56​
96​
0​
Faheem Ashraf2020-2023
11​
6​
76.66​
5.6​
82​
0​
Agha Salman2022-2023
21​
4​
99.75​
5.78​
103.5​
0​
Danish Aziz2021-2021
2​
0​
-
5.4​
-
0​
Ihsanullah2023-2023
1​
0​
-
7.5​
-
0​
Zaman Khan2023-2023
1​
0​
-
6.5​
-
0​
 
No advantage type of thing when it comes to Pakistan. They don't really know how to take advantage of conditions.

Pakistan need some genuine spinner and a solid middle order to win some games.
 
jeetu said:
Unless Pakistan gets high quality spinner , it would be tough for them to win CT.

Pakistan's bowlers in ODI since 2020. Spinners barely did anything.
Click to expand...
It would be easier to create seaming tracks that favours pacers and offer little turn. Not enough time for creating a bunch of competitive spinners, so need to focus on ensuring the pitches are favourable, ie. benefits pacers and more sedated defensive batting.
 
Pakistan only has one advantage. Assuming Babar azam is still our corrupt captain, he'll make sure to curate the pitches to have zero grass and be flat tracks, meaning he'll perform like he did in nz last year and against Nepal.

I don't mind it as India in 2023 also curated the pitches, However the only issue is that everyone else will start butchering Pakistan's bowling left and right and fans will be delusional once again because they'll see babar performing and everyone will be on cloud 9.
 
mominsaigol said:
Pakistan only has one advantage. Assuming Babar azam is still our corrupt captain, he'll make sure to curate the pitches to have zero grass and be flat tracks, meaning he'll perform like he did in nz last year and against Nepal.

I don't mind it as India in 2023 also curated the pitches, However the only issue is that everyone else will start butchering Pakistan's bowling left and right and fans will be delusional once again because they'll see babar performing and everyone will be on cloud 9.
Click to expand...
Keeping the pitches slow and low will make the pacers toothless. I though the NY pitch was perfect, had they gone with a better batting line up rather than simply 3 batsmen, would've won against US and India.
 
I don't think there will be any real home advantage
other sides have better batsmen who can better utilise the extensions of the national highway system
 
Pakistan won't have these sluggish wickets so hopefully our stat padders can do wonders here in the Champions Trophy.
 
Pakistan cricket team, better do well, I have a feeling that the crowd wont be merciful this time if they bungle this up.
 
Prepare spicy pitches that suit their bowlers and not flat tracks where they will lose 9 times out of 10.
 
I think that bouncy pitches should be made that support pacers. Flat tracks are not going to do Pakistan any favor. Home advantage should be used and play to your strength but as everybody knows, Pakistan is pretty bad at taking home advantage so not expecting much from them.
 
Pakistan would be the real winners for me if they host the tournament well and teams sing praises of the famous Pakistani hospitality, something most international players are yet to experience.

On field performances will just be a cherry on top, an unlikely cherry but it doesn't matter. We want the cake. <3
 
Pakistan is the only team that can’t dominate while playing in home conditions, so I don’t think the home factor in CT 2025 will help them. In fact it will create more pressure to perform in front of the home crowd.
 
Not heard any news about champions trophy from a week.

What's cooking behind the closed doors.
 
emranabbas said:
Real question is does anyone in pakistan know how to make use of home advantage?
Click to expand...
They don't because curating pindi pitches to be batting roads is a terrible idea.

UAE worked because Pakistan was playing with spin chuckers on spin paradise pitches and Younis Khan was an absolute beast at playing spin in test while alot of teams in that era struggled. England at the time was minnow level and they especially were the weakest spin playing team of that era.

Pindi is curated for Babar and Chacha to avoid spinners but they don't realise that outbatting the opposition is not Pakistan's string suit.

Imagine giving someone like Travis Head free reign on curated pitches. We already saw what he did in IPL on batting video game pitches.

Even in India, without Fakhar Zaman, Pakistan got outbatted by every top tier team. Even England who lost to every Tom, dick and Harry in the cup and were playing with has beens like root, Stokes, Bairstow(hadn't played odi for 4 years) and put of form players like butler and brooks at the time( Butler regained his form afterwards in 2024), They still butchered Pakistan black and Blue on batting roads.
 
Tough to arrive at any conclusion because they are very unpredictable side.
 
Ab Fan said:
Tough to arrive at any conclusion because they are very unpredictable side.
Click to expand...
They haven't been unpredictable since 2021.

The only exception since 2021 was the wc game against NZ in wc 2023 because Fakhar kicked off.

2022 to 2024 they've been very predictable. 2022 wc happened due to factors outside their control.

Since 2023 wc format has to play once against every team, it effectively removes the fluke factor.
 
mominsaigol said:
They haven't been unpredictable since 2021.

The only exception since 2021 was the wc game against NZ in wc 2023 because Fakhar kicked off.

2022 to 2024 they've been very predictable. 2022 wc happened due to factors outside their control.

Since 2023 wc format has to play once against every team, it effectively removes the fluke factor.
Click to expand...

They were superb in 2022 WT20 but awful in 2023 WC and 2024 WT20. What do we make of it?
 
Pakistan will be the last team to use home conditions to their advantage. These flat roads and Phatta wickets will not help them in any way.
 
Ab Fan said:
They were superb in 2022 WT20 but awful in 2023 WC and 2024 WT20. What do we make of it?
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Lol no they were not superb.

They lost to India from a won position, Lost to Zimbabwe, beat nedtherlands in a torturous fashion(The scorecard is not reflective of the results of the actual match for those who saw it live)

Had a torture winning against Bangladesh, Got extremely lucky that drs favoured them against sa, That Sa vs Zim got rained off when sa had already won and that SA lost to nedtherlands.

The only game they genuinely won without a farce or some bullcrap luck was against New Zealand.

SA was done dirty. And tbh I'm starting to think ICC deliberately rigged the result for SA drs because they were aiming for a pak India final.

I've noticed they did this for ct 2025 where India and Pakistan this time around have gotten the easiest group possible qith Bangladesh and New Zealand who atm are completly put of form,

While the other group is filled with all the top sides.
 
mominsaigol said:
Lol no they were not superb.

They lost to India from a won position, Lost to Zimbabwe, beat nedtherlands in a torturous fashion(The scorecard is not reflective of the results of the actual match for those who saw it live)

Had a torture winning against Bangladesh, Got extremely lucky that drs favoured them against sa, That Sa vs Zim got rained off when sa had already won and that SA lost to nedtherlands.

The only game they genuinely won without a farce or some bullcrap luck was against New Zealand.

SA was done dirty. And tbh I'm starting to think ICC deliberately rigged the result for SA drs because they were aiming for a pak India final.

I've noticed they did this for ct 2025 where India and Pakistan this time around have gotten the easiest group possible qith Bangladesh and New Zealand who atm are completly put of form,

While the other group is filled with all the top sides.
Click to expand...

The loss to India was down to one player, who is regarded as one of the best ever, from opposition side playing arguably one of his best knock of his career. Obviously such knocks can change the course of result but doesn't take away the form of the losing team.

New Zealand had beaten Australia and were looking a strong side and beating them in knockout was not a easy job and pushing England in the finals was also appreciating. They were a genuinely in-form side although unpredictable too which was seen via loss vs Zimbabwe. Post CT 2017, that tournament remains Pakistan's best tournament.
 
Ab Fan said:
The loss to India was down to one player, who is regarded as one of the best ever, from opposition side playing arguably one of his best knock of his career. Obviously such knocks can change the course of result but doesn't take away the form of the losing team.

New Zealand had beaten Australia and were looking a strong side and beating them in knockout was not a easy job and pushing England in the finals was also appreciating. They were a genuinely in-form side although unpredictable too which was seen via loss vs Zimbabwe. Post CT 2017, that tournament remains Pakistan's best tournament.
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1) The first part is not true. I'm not taking anything away from kohli, but Haris Rauf bowled doo doo to him which isn't a suprise given how he bowled to USA. No one asked him to bowl short followed by a full toss to a an ATG batter. On top of that no one asked Nawaz to first bowl a no ball, Then bowl a full toss and them bowl a wide lol.

Pakistan 100% threw that game.

2) 2022 Australia is crap and the weakest Aussie team that has ever been sent to a t20 world cup all time. Just because their name is Australia doesn't detract from that, Finch was a freaking burnt corpse.

They were not inform by any metric. Babar and Rizwan left that tournament with one of the worst stats of all time, Especially bobby who left at an avg of 17, the funny thing is that had he not been dropped on 0 againat NZ, He'd finish of an avg below 10 meaning he'd have the record of all time worst opener in a t20 tournament all time.

The rest of the team was a farce.

Pakistan lucked out because Muhammad haris managed to be a unique find, SA got done so dirty you'd think God was willingly against them and the pace bowling of shaheen and naseem was top tier, And probably the last time pakistan had both shaheen and Naseem inform.

Their 8 overs + Haris carries the tournament. They were a freakishly weak side. Furthermore thanks to covid and injuries and the fact that sides were playing a tournament straight after a year, made everyone weary.

India were not at full strength, their bowling for that tournament was so bad and downright awful. Which is expected considering half the team is missing.

Only full strength team of that tournament was SA, NZ and Eng, SA got done very dorty and nedtherlands somehow pulled a miracle. NZ had one bad game.
 
Pakistan will have dew in Feb-March. So the team batting second will have advantage of chasing under lights in most stadiums in Pakistan & UAE(India's matches if shifted)

I reckon most teams will look to chase in Champions Trophy as dew will play a significant role for the team batting second.

As far as Pakistan goes, they have to play aggressive brand of cricket if they have to make their mark on the Champions Trophy. If they approach this tournament in defensive mode, they won't reach semi finals. I hope India/ Pakistan/ Afghanistan/ South Africa reach the last four. May the best team win after that. Most Indian fans will want South Africa to win.
 
I expect Pakistan to go to semi at least.

If they can win 2 out of 3 in group stage, they should go to semi.
 
They should dominate. Pakistan don't produce players of the calibre of Bobby, Rizzy, Shaheen and Naseem for a long time .

They will be mediocre after these guys , so it's important to dominate now.

There is no talent after these guys.
 
How are they gonna dominate when this is your record at home.

D1IN8m0.png
 
Last edited:
BouncerGuy said:
How are they gonna dominate when this is your record at home.

D1IN8m0.png
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Their honoring Arshad Nadeem. This is what Shan meant.

They plan to play so bad that Pakistani fans will divert all their attention to Arshad Nadeem and forsake the Cricket team.
 
LOL, I said it before Pak cricket is finished, you're all wasting your time with this mob.
 
The champions trophy format is such that 1 good game will put you in the semifinal . Unlike the WCs where you need to have 6-7 good games to qualify for the semi finals. The luck factor increases by quite a bit and favors the weaker teams having a 1 off good day. And i more good game and all of a sudden you're in the final.
 
For the first time, Pakistan fans looking hopeful for some great results. Good riddance to India won't face Pakistan at home. With Sajid Khan things would have been spicy
 
The Bald Eagle said:
For the first time, Pakistan fans looking hopeful for some great results. Good riddance to India won't face Pakistan at home. With Sajid Khan things would have been spicy
Click to expand...
Seems similar to last Asia Cup and World Cup where Pak came on the back off wins against depleted teams.
 
Sunil Gavaskar, while speaking on a local sports channel:

“The tag of favourites should be given to the home team Pakistan as it’s not easy to beat any team in their home conditions. India lost in the final of the ODI World Cup 2023 but before that they put up clinical performances and won ten matches on the trot. Hence, I feel Pakistan are the favourites for the upcoming tournament.”

Irfan Pathan also shared his views:

“If we talk about Dubai Stadium, fast bowlers get a lot of assistance there, the ball swings early on. Bowlers also get good bounce from the surface. Hence, the team should have a good seam attack and the selectors will keep that in mind while selecting the team."
 
This time, Pakistan has a very good ODI team. They are one of the favorites along with Australia.
 
In the Champions Trophy, every match matters. We can't afford to lose even one match. Pakistan is looking like a decent side but our bowlers aren’t a threat to the opposition, especially against India. If we look at Shaheen Shah Afridi and Haris Rauf, Indian batters have already figured them out.

Yes against New Zealand we might surprise them with our spinners—maybe Sajid Khan could be a surprise package.

For Bangladesh trundlers won’t work but Haris Rauf could be lethal against them and a match winner for us.

I clearly see Pakistan making it to the semi-finals by beating New Zealand and Bangladesh. But against India there will be a batting collapse, whether Jasprit Bumrah plays or not. Sorry, but that’s a fact.
 
To be honest we have done better in odi when playing in seamer friendly countries. Like recent odi series wins I'm aus saf. Or past world cups Australia England, etc. I have much less hope on good batting wickets as other teams have much better ability to score 350s in such conditions than us.
 
I expect Pakistan to reach semi-final because of 4 reasons:

1) They are the home team.

2) They are in good form in ODI format. 3 back to back series wins (including wins against Australia and South Africa).

3) They got disrespected by BCCICC/BCCI. I expect them to be charged up.

4) Hubris may cause India to get knocked out in group stage. So, NZ and Pakistan should go to semi-final.
 
Odi is pakistan strong format. They have very balanced and inform team going through in champion trophy.

They are favourite to win the trophy alongwith Australia .

:kp
 
sweep_shot said:
I expect Pakistan to reach semi-final because of 4 reasons:

1) They are the home team.

2) They are in good form in ODI format. 3 back to back series wins (including wins against Australia and South Africa).

3) They got disrespected by BCCICC/BCCI. I expect them to be charged up.

4) Hubris may cause India to get knocked out in group stage. So, NZ and Pakistan should go to semi-final.
Click to expand...

These are some good points.

Pakistan should definitely be one of the semi-finalists. Home conditions, ODI team is in good form. no excuses
 
Pakistan has world no.1 ICC ranked batsman. world no.4 ICC ranked bowler. They are clear favorites. Home ground as well. 3 wins out of 3 wins first round.
 
A lot depends on the batting form of Pakistan team. Talent is there to post good totals on a daily basis in ODIs. If they do that, bowling won’t disappoint .
 
Infact teams have started to Bully PCT already....and tournament is yet to commence 🤦‍♂️
 
Be it ICC events or any other series since 90s, Pakistan were never dominant at home with the exception of 1-2 series.
 
This might just be the first tournament ever Pakistan might go undefeated
 
The ODI series in Australia and South Africa were but trailers to the coup de grace that is going to be the Champions Trophy.

Fakhar, Rizwan, Babar, Shaheen , Naseem, Rauf, Abrar - can't think of a more fearsome white ball unit in the last decade.

They'll finish a few careers in this CT.
 
Yep bullied by NZ so far, but may be they could take the inspiration from the recent defeats
 
We are drawing a false conclusion that home teams will do well in home events.

But that is not the case. Over the last 10 years ODI cricket has changed with new rules. The teams that have played it best are the ones that have adapted best to these changes and tried ro structure their teams accordingly. And specifically for certain tournaments and conditions it is imperative to identify and use right resources.

Key success factors in ODIs today are

1) Ability to frontload in first power play

2) Ability to score at 6-7 rpo without excessive risk in 2nd PP (11-40 overs)

3) Having a long batting lineup with atleast 2 multiskilled players

4) Having a varied attack capable of striking in middle overs (release points, right/left, swing and hit the deck, both direction spin)


Every successful team in this era has cultivated their respective strengths and taken tough decisions (either to drop established players or persist with underperforming players) with a view that the overriding team philosophy and gameplan are more important than individual glory or numbers. They are also unafraid to pivot from their original gameplans prior to or during a tourney if they feel its not working.

1) Aus has stuck with high failure rate Maxwell and Stoinis type players trusting in their skillsets and that they add more to the team than a new specialist.

2) India dropped their star fingerspin twins to pursue wristspin and changed their batting template in first PP

3) SA pivoted from having middling allrounders to better quality specialists after evaluating their player depth chart


Pakistan does not do either short term planning or long term planning well. The successful runs of their players exist in a vacuum rather than informing a team plan or philosophy.

As such any hot streaks they have will always be temporary and heavily dependent on the 2-3 players being in form and carrying the team.

It will be same in CT. They will need blinders from Fakhar, big inns from Babar, Rizwan, Salman and regular strikes from Shaheen/Naseem to carry the usual 4-5 players deadweight who don't have any role clarity or long term development targets
 
Pakistan and New Zealand are the 2 best odi sides currently. Pakistan have lost twice to New Zealand so law of averages should work in their favour.
 
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