[PICTURES] Does Pakistan still need Mohammad Amir?

[topspin]

Amir’s opening spell played a decent part in winning the match with India’s main batsmen not there it made the chase a lot harder give credit where it’s due the current players go missing in big matches most of the time.

Honestly, if India had made it to 50/1 after 10 overs, I reckon they could have won it. It was easier to bat in the middle overs. There was nothing in it for the spinners and they looked toothless on the day with the way Pandya was smacking them.

On an excellent batting surface, Amir's dismissals of India's top 3 in the powerplay was instrumental to Pakistan's success. His bowling was also clutch in the 2009 WT20 final when he dismissed Dilshan (leading run scorer in the tournament) for a duck in what was a wicket taking maiden over.

 

[Major]

You're digging yourself into a hole and exposing your credibility.

Amir didn't just take the wicket of Kohli. He also took the wickets of Rohit Sharma and Shikhar Dhawan. These two were the leading run scorers in that tournament. Not only were they the best top 3 in world cricket (at the time) but perhaps the greatest top 3 in the history of ODI cricket.

Let's try again so you have a chance to redeem yourself. Can you give Amir any credit for taking those wickets in an ODI final?

he was only over hyped due to kohlis wicekt.

It was not even a low scoring match that Pakistan were in trouble.. Pakistan had a 300+ score on board, thanks to Fakhar Zaman's heroics.

Hasan Ali has bowled his heart out during the whole tournament and the reason why we were in the final was because of him. Junaid Khan had proven his worth and was moving the ball.

Amir got Kohli's wicket, good for him, that was his job, simple as that.

He sold the country for a few pounds, and he crossed a line when he did that. For that act he could never be forgiven.

PCB gave him a second chance, and this guy still whined and ran away just to play easy t20 cricket to earn easy money.

He loves money, good for him. But he once sold the country for it, and that is something that should not be tolerated.

Playing for Pakistan is an Honor, not a privilege.

 

[Major]

Amir’s opening spell played a decent part in winning the match with India’s main batsmen not there it made the chase a lot harder give credit where it’s due the current players go missing in big matches most of the time.

yes, because it was a 200 target and fakhar zaman only played a very small role right.

 

[Cric1234]

yes, because it was a 200 target and fakhar zaman only played a very small role right.

Nobody said Fakhar played a small role but a bowler taking out the top 3 batsmen in the first 10 overs finishes the match as Kohli and Sharma are capable of chasing 300 plus.

 

[Asif321]

yes, because it was a 200 target and fakhar zaman only played a very small role right.

That pitch was flat and india could have easily chased down the score even hardik threatened by hitting shadab and fakhar sixes all over the park . Sarfraz himself said they could have easily scored those runs had it not been for Amir’s opening spell

 

[topspin]

he was only over hyped due to kohlis wicekt.

It was not even a low scoring match that Pakistan were in trouble.. Pakistan had a 300+ score on board, thanks to Fakhar Zaman's heroics.

Hasan Ali has bowled his heart out during the whole tournament and the reason why we were in the final was because of him. Junaid Khan had proven his worth and was moving the ball.

Amir got Kohli's wicket, good for him, that was his job, simple as that.

He sold the country for a few pounds, and he crossed a line when he did that. For that act he could never be forgiven.

PCB gave him a second chance, and this guy still whined and ran away just to play easy t20 cricket to earn easy money.

He loves money, good for him. But he once sold the country for it, and that is something that should not be tolerated.

Playing for Pakistan is an Honor, not a privilege.

So does Misbah. He ousted Mickey Arthur to lynch his job for himself despite not being a qualified coach. I could provide more examples of this as well but I have no interest in derailing the thread.

No one is taking anything away from what Fakhar Zaman or Hasan Ali achieved in the 2017 CT. In fact I've said on numerous occasions in the past that these two were the best performers with bat and ball (respectively) and the reason why Pakistan won that tournament.

But that's not what we were talking about. I asked you if Amir deserves the credit for dismissing the best top 3 in ODI final that took place six years ago but you obviously have no interest to give him his due credit. Just like with your views on Shadab and Imad, I have to say it makes you sound emotional, immature and quite frankly deranged.

 

[MenInG]

So does Misbah. He ousted Mickey Arthur to lynch his job for himself despite not being a qualified coach. I could provide more examples of this as well but I have no interest in derailing the thread.

No one is taking anything away from what Fakhar Zaman or Hasan Ali achieved in the 2017 CT. In fact I've said on numerous occasions in the past that these two were the best performers with bat and ball (respectively) and the reason why Pakistan won that tournament.

But that's not what we were talking about. I asked you if Amir deserves the credit for dismissing the best top 3 in ODI final that took place six years ago but you obviously have no interest to give him his due credit. Just like with your views on Shadab and Imad, I have to say it makes you sound emotional, immature and quite frankly deranged.

Sorry but Misbah did NOT sell his country to the highest bidder. That is a huge distinction.

We at PP have known Misbah for a while now and one thing we know about Kaptaan is that he is not in the same money-grabbing category as Amir was.

Lets keep this sane.

 

[topspin]

Sorry but Misbah did NOT sell his country to the highest bidder. That is a huge distinction.

We at PP have known Misbah for a while now and one thing we know about Kaptaan is that he is not in the same money-grabbing category as Amir was.

Lets keep this sane.

I'm not arguing about who's more obsessed about money. I agree that Amir sold his country and is morally corrupt. He's certainly someone you wouldn't want to be friends with.

But it wouldn't be sane for any Misbah fan to take the moral high ground because the player they support also happens to love money - to the extent where he's willing to comprise on his morals as well. That's evident by the way Mickey was ousted as Head Coach of the Pakistan team.

 

[liam26]

Lol at all the exaggerations. Exaggerating Indian ability to chase targets in an ICC Tournament just to hype a bowler. Likes of Matt Henry and Boult defended 239 in the Semi Final of 2019 WC against India but somehow India was going to chase easy 340+ in the Finals ?

The match was 90% in Pakistans pocket when the first innings ended.

 

[Rana]

Lol at all the exaggerations. Exaggerating Indian ability to chase targets in an ICC Tournament just to hype a bowler. Likes of Matt Henry and Boult defended 239 in the Semi Final of 2019 WC against India but somehow India was going to chase easy 340+ in the Finals ?

The match was 90% in Pakistans pocket when the first innings ended.

Two different pitches

Two different conditions

The oval that day was an absolute road. India could well have chased it if they had a decent 100-120 run partnership by the top order.

Amir broke the spine of Indian batting that day. The entire Pakistan and its fans felt as if Azhar had dropped the match when he dropped Kohli. That’s how good Kohli was back then and that’s how scary the situation was because of the flatness of the wicket

 

[topspin]

Two different pitches

Two different conditions

The oval that day was an absolute road. India could well have chased it if they had a decent 100-120 run partnership by the top order.

Amir broke the spine of Indian batting that day. The entire Pakistan and its fans felt as if Azhar had dropped the match when he dropped Kohli. That’s how good Kohli was back then and that’s how scary the situation was because of the flatness of the wicket

Bang on the money.

That wicket in the final was indeed an absolute road whereas the 2019 WC semi final saw India crumbling in overcast conditions. Henry and Boult bowled well in conditions conducive for the seamers. That’s why their performances aren’t even worthy of comparison. Amir did it on a road in a final.

 

[Rana]

Bang on the money.

That wicket in the final was indeed an absolute road whereas the 2019 WC semi final saw India crumbling in overcast conditions. Henry and Boult bowled well in conditions conducive for the seamers. That’s why their performances aren’t even worthy of comparison. Amir did it on a road in a final.

I’m pretty sure England would have scored 380+ had they batted first on the day if they were in the final.

Personally I thought Pakistan were 40-50 runs short. That didn’t feel like enough runs considering how flat English tracks had become around this time period

 

[liam26]

Two different pitches

Two different conditions

The oval that day was an absolute road. India could well have chased it if they had a decent 100-120 run partnership by the top order.

Amir broke the spine of Indian batting that day. The entire Pakistan and its fans felt as if Azhar had dropped the match when he dropped Kohli. That’s how good Kohli was back then and that’s how scary the situation was because of the flatness of the wicket

Different day Different Pitch but also a difference of 100+ runs.

Another fact, India has never chased 340+ outside Subcontinent in Odis even in Bilaterals. So how was that miracle going to happen on that day in an ICC Tournament that too in the Finals ?

No Indian fan was comfortable when the target crossed 300 they knew the team is in trouble. When the target crossed 340+ they knew India would need a once in a lifetime effort.

Those 340-350 scores can be chased by India Batsmen on home grounds like Bangalore or Mumbai or PSL type pitches and only in Bi-Laterals.

 

[Rana]

Different day Different Pitch but also a difference of 100+ runs.

Another fact, India has never chased 340+ outside Subcontinent in Odis even in Bilaterals. So how was that miracle going to happen on that day in an ICC Tournament that too in the Finals ?

No Indian fan was comfortable when the target crossed 300 they knew the team is in trouble. When the target crossed 340+ they knew India would need a once in a lifetime effort.

Those 340-350 scores can be chased by India Batsmen on home grounds like Bangalore or Mumbai or PSL type pitches and only in Bi-Laterals.

But India where not playing a top 3-4 side, they were playing Pakistan. Pakistan were their whipping boys for quite some time leading into the tournament. They absolutely pulverised Pakistan at Edgebaston prior to this match. 99/100 times India would back themselves to beat Pakistan in any situation considering the huge mental edge they had over them leading into that final. They then went on to beat Pakistan 3-4 more times after that final as well. They have been wrecking Pakistan like no other since 2011

 

[liam26]

And likes of Kohli, Rohit ,Dhoni , Dhwan , Raina failed to chase 328 against Australia in the Semi Finals of 2015 WC and were all out for 233.

So where are these past instances of India chasing 300 or worse 330-340 in ICC tournaments ? Common cite some examples where Kohli , Rohit , Dhoni have been chasing 300+ in ICC tournaments ?

Any half decent side can defend 300+ easy against India in a ICC Tournament match because the pitches are neutral and not phattas that are prepared during Bi-Laterals , also the added scoreboard pressure of a knock out match.

 

[Kroll]

Shaheen and Ihsanullah are a must but the 3rd spot in Pakistan's pace attack is up for grabs.

I've seen Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Muhammad Wasim Jnr and Zaman Khan and I wouldn't want any of them playing for the first team during the World Cup in India later this year.

Amir may not have the pace but he has the bowling IQ and a proven track record in winning ICC events. The question is whether he has the motivation to play for Pakistan and therefore get back to full fitness. If he does, he's a must have in the team.

If 100% fit, Amir will be needed in the death overs. He's a clutch performer when the stakes are high. Don't rule him out just yet.

After the ODI World Cup, we can then move on from him. But for now, he's needed.

Ihsan is still untried in the 50 over and only played against Afg in T20 so could easily bomb like so many before him that were hyped. That said, hope he can take his chances as the potential is there.

Just wish these player didn't hype their age by so much either.

 

[topspin]

I’m pretty sure England would have scored 380+ had they batted first on the day if they were in the final.

Personally I thought Pakistan were 40-50 runs short. That didn’t feel like enough runs considering how flat English tracks had become around this time period

I also felt Pakistan were short. I wasn't comfortable with anything under 350 on that pitch. People forget how well India bowled to pull it back.

It was a true batting paradise. If it wasn't for Amir's wickets, Pakistan could've easily lost this game.

 

[topspin]

Ihsan is still untried in the 50 over and only played against Afg in T20 so could easily bomb like so many before him that were hyped. That said, hope he can take his chances as the potential is there.

Just wish these player didn't hype their age by so much either.

The problem is there isn't much competition for Ihsanullah. The only bowler better than him in Pakistan when it comes to white ball cricket is Shaheen.

I just hope Ihsanullah can maintain his form until the World Cup later this year.

Totally agree with you on his age, looks closer to 30 than his "official age".

 

[topspin]

But India where not playing a top 3-4 side, they were playing Pakistan. Pakistan were their whipping boys for quite some time leading into the tournament. They absolutely pulverised Pakistan at Edgebaston prior to this match. 99/100 times India would back themselves to beat Pakistan in any situation considering the huge mental edge they had over them leading into that final. They then went on to beat Pakistan 3-4 more times after that final as well. They have been wrecking Pakistan like no other since 2011

After the half way mark when Pakistan had finished their 50 overs, I remember very well that according to the bookies, India were rated as the favourites. The pitch and the psychological advantage they had over Pakistan in ICC tournaments were probably the two biggest factors in this.

 

[shariqnoor]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] With all due respect, if you have to refer to a 6 year old and a 14 year old performance of a bowler as a reason to have him in the team, that's enough evidence to suggest that he should not be in the team. It's like asking to bring Wahab back because of him being the best Pakistani fast bowler in the 2015 World Cup. How ridiculous would that sound?

Amir is finished. Hasn't played ODI cricket at any level for over 4 years which should tell you a lot about his commitment to ODI cricket. Got smashed by 45 year old veterans in a pajama league. You just cannot look at past performances which are well over 5 years old. Please have some respect for the selection process. This is not a street level team we're selecting players for. Cannot just simply pluck some players out of obscurity and have them play, that too at the biggest tournament in the world.

 

[MenInG]

Seems that PCB sending mixed signals...

==

According to recent media reports, an important member of Pakistan selection committee had contacted Mohammad Amir’s manager and asked him to communicate to the left-arm pacer to be prepared for international comeback.

However, the top officials of PCB have denied these reports and have said that there is no immediate possibility of Amir returning to the Pakistan team.

According to the board officials, Pakistan team is not facing any shortage of pacers. Ihsanullah and Zaman Khan have also recently proved their mettle in the Afghanistan series. Now, the selection committee is not looking towards Amir. He is still officially retired. He will first have to take his retirement back and prove his form and fitness, in order to be eligible for Pakistan team.

Pakistan selection panel have finished initial deliberations on Pakistan squad for New Zealand series. The selectors will announce the squad after consultation with Pakistan captain, Babar Azam, who will soon be returning from Saudi Arabia after performing Umrah.

==

Question is, how can he prove his fitness without playing?

 

[Kroll]

Doesn't look like he's coming back after all.

 

[MenInG]

Doesn't look like he's coming back after all.

The Pakistan domestic season is over.

He doesn't have any contracts in County.

Guess he should wait for the next PSL.

 

[shariqnoor]

The Pakistan domestic season is over.

He doesn't have any contracts in County.

Guess he should wait for the next PSL.

PSL should not be a criteria for ODI selection. Selectors now need to put their foot down and select players in a particular format based on their performances in that format itself. No cross selection unless you identify a ground-breaking talent.

 

[topspin]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] With all due respect, if you have to refer to a 6 year old and a 14 year old performance of a bowler as a reason to have him in the team, that's enough evidence to suggest that he should not be in the team.

An expected response from a Misbah loyalist I must say.

The reason why Amir lost his place in the side is because Misbah's delicate feelings got hurt after he had announced his retirement from red ball cricket.

If we want to look at more recent performances for Pakistan then we should cast our minds back to the 2019 World Cup where he had a good tournament with the ball.

It's like asking to bring Wahab back because of him being the best Pakistani fast bowler in the 2015 World Cup. How ridiculous would that sound?

This analogy doesn't make any sense. Your example isn't analogous even in the slightest because Wahab didn't win tournaments like Amir did. In fact his bowling was so bad after the first game in the 2017 CT, he had to be dropped for the rest of the tournament.

Also, I remember Amir was unable to play the semi-final against England due to injury. Even then Rumman Raees got the nod over Wahab and it turned out to be the right call because he bowled well to play his part in dismissing England for a low score.

Amir is finished.

You're making it sound as if I'm saying he's an automatic selection for Pakistan. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not sure if you read one of my earlier posts. I did mention that it's about whether Amir is still motivated to play for Pakistan and therefore willing to work hard to get to full fitness. At present he isn't fit enough to be even considered for selection.

Hasn't played ODI cricket at any level for over 4 years which should tell you a lot about his commitment to ODI cricket.

Amir didn't play any level of professional cricket for around 5 and a half years between 2010 and 2016. Around 18 months after his return to the Pakistan side, he won Pakistan the Champions Trophy. The same tournament where Misbah's side crashed out without managing a single win in the previous edition of this event (2013 CT).

Got smashed by 45 year old veterans in a pajama league. You just cannot look at past performances which are well over 5 years old. Please have some respect for the selection process. This is not a street level team we're selecting players for. Cannot just simply pluck some players out of obscurity and have them play, that too at the biggest tournament in the world.

From what I've heard he was playing whilst he was injured and unfit because we all know he's always obsessed with money, so I'm not going to look too much into this. Remember the same guy dismissed Babar Azam and Muhammad Haris for ducks in the first over of the game against PZ last month so with all due respect this isn't what I call a broad and impartial perspective.

 

[Zaz]

Amirs done Whoever thinks that amir can bowl day in day out is seriously not thinking straight

His attitude stinks, hes getting injured regularly, hes not played any FC or List A cricket for years plus hes in his mid 30s

Whats he going to be brought back for?

 

[Saj]

I'd be surprised if PCB will be begging any player to come out of retirement.

You do this once and you'll have to keep doing it.

 

[ahmadharis1]

No no no no a hundred times no.... has done nothing to earn a comeback

 

[Bewal Express]

A 34 year old T20 bowler shouldn't be considered for any kind of selection. He is angry because he destroyed his own career but time waits for no one, and his time has gone

 

[Bewal Express]

The Pakistan domestic season is over.

He doesn't have any contracts in County.

Guess he should wait for the next PSL.

And he will be hardly uprooting any trees in that PSL either

 

[cricketAXEpert]

In white ball, no. We have younger and better bowlers and the competition for a place is just too high.

In tests, yes. We 100% need him. But then he's not looking to make a return there.

He is not going to play Test cricket even if he can.
At the moment, we need an Odi Pacer to pair up with Shaheen. Shaheen, Ihsanullah and Naseem can do the job (with Haris and Zaman as replacements). Ihsanullah is a great talent but he lacks experience. We don't need Amir However it would be good have an experienced bowler like him in the world cup.

 

[ads101]

He was underrated when he was playing. His stats look worse because people used to play him out and Tonk the other fast bowlers.

Now currently I doubt he’d be in our top three pacers. Shaheen is better so is Rauf (his performance whether you like him or not has been very good in recent years). So third at best. Ishanullah looked better and probably Zaman too. Would be surprised if even guys like Dahani , Hasnain and Naseem did better. Amir is also clearly past his prime while all the other bowlers bar Rauf are young enough to still improve. So not worth bringing him back.

 

[hitthestump]

And he will be hardly uprooting any trees in that PSL either

Forget PSL. What we saw from Amir in the 'Legends League' was shameful enough

 

[JAV12341]

Amir is a must in the ODI squad period. Best white ball fast bowler in Paksitan

 

[Concerned]

People seem to be confusing Amir.

Amir in 2010 was a beast and amongst the very best.

Amir today breaks keeps breaking down bowling 4 overs and has lost some serious pace and swing.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He was a big flop in the PSL.

I'm not sure on what basis people want him back.

 

[gazza619]

people here dont like him because he was involved in spot fixing

Dont think so.

Amir has served his punishment.

His performances have been poor, thats all.

 

[Marooned]

He is not going to play Test cricket even if he can.
At the moment, we need an Odi Pacer to pair up with Shaheen. Shaheen, Ihsanullah and Naseem can do the job (with Haris and Zaman as replacements). Ihsanullah is a great talent but he lacks experience. We don't need Amir However it would be good have an experienced bowler like him in the world cup.

Amir has value in ONE scenario. As a backup to Shaheen. He remains the 2nd best left armer in Pakistan. All our young talents are right armers.

God forbid if Shaheen gets injured during WC, Amir can fill in to provide a left arm option.

 

[Marooned]

Otherwise, I won't want the current version of Amir without much penetration in his bowling as one of my 3 pacers.

 

[Major]

Dont think so.

Amir has served his punishment.

His performances have been poor, thats all.

Serving punishment means that people dont remember him selling out his country?

In sports, being a sell out is a line you dont cross and he did, thats why people hate him alot.

 

[Titan24]

In terms of cricket alone Amir was bowling at as good a pace in last couple of months in BPL and then in PSL as we saw 2-3 years ago (High 130s and quite a few in early 140s kph). Looked threatening on quite a few occasions with that new ball.

However, his attitude and whether the team management wants him in that dressing room is a big question.

While there is no shortage of pacers for Pakistan but, in big events and on big occasions experience does matter (Considering one is fit, in form and willing to play like an honest servant).

So bit of a dilemma tbh. Amir has erred more than once when it comes to his attitude but, at the same time around 140kph Amir when in form with his experience, in his right state of mind can be a good pacer to have but definitely not at the cost of dressing room’s environment if that can be an issue.

 

[Bewal Express]

Forget PSL. What we saw from Amir in the 'Legends League' was shameful enough

I missed that, was that recent

 

[Kroll]

Serving punishment means that people dont remember him selling out his country?

In sports, being a sell out is a line you dont cross and he did, thats why people hate him alot.

Maybe some do, but even after his comeback, I remember full stadiums chanting his name. This issue isn't about hate / love here.

 

[moghul]

People who actually sold the country running the country and the parliament and being rewarded .

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan have some great pacers now. No space for Amir now probably.

 

[shariqnoor]

An expected response from a Misbah loyalist I must say.

The reason why Amir lost his place in the side is because Misbah's delicate feelings got hurt after he had announced his retirement from red ball cricket.

If we want to look at more recent performances for Pakistan then we should cast our minds back to the 2019 World Cup where he had a good tournament with the ball.



This analogy doesn't make any sense. Your example isn't analogous even in the slightest because Wahab didn't win tournaments like Amir did. In fact his bowling was so bad after the first game in the 2017 CT, he had to be dropped for the rest of the tournament.

Also, I remember Amir was unable to play the semi-final against England due to injury. Even then Rumman Raees got the nod over Wahab and it turned out to be the right call because he bowled well to play his part in dismissing England for a low score.



You're making it sound as if I'm saying he's an automatic selection for Pakistan. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not sure if you read one of my earlier posts. I did mention that it's about whether Amir is still motivated to play for Pakistan and therefore willing to work hard to get to full fitness. At present he isn't fit enough to be even considered for selection.



Amir didn't play any level of professional cricket for around 5 and a half years between 2010 and 2016. Around 18 months after his return to the Pakistan side, he won Pakistan the Champions Trophy. The same tournament where Misbah's side crashed out without managing a single win in the previous edition of this event (2013 CT).



From what I've heard he was playing whilst he was injured and unfit because we all know he's always obsessed with money, so I'm not going to look too much into this. Remember the same guy dismissed Babar Azam and Muhammad Haris for ducks in the first over of the game against PZ last month so with all due respect this isn't what I call a broad and impartial perspective.

Again I really think Misbah lives in your head. What has Misbah got to do in this discussion? If you want to believe Misbah is the root of all evil in Pakistan and will continue to be so until he's alive, then sure please go ahead and believe it. It doesn't matter one iota to me. I'm not Misbah's lawyer.

You can continue your belief that Amir was the sole architect of our WT20 2009 and Champions Trophy 2017 win. That's your discretion. Others can also have their own opinions that Amir was just one piece of the team that won the tournament.

Having read all of this Amir lovesongs here, now I really want Amir to get selected for the NZ series just so that he can be fully exposed once more how bad of a bowler he is. Just like Sharjeel got exposed in the PSL after having heard so much from one poster here how he is the Big Fish in Pakistan T20 and that Rizwan and Babar are inferior to him.

You may remember 2017 final bowling but I guess you have forgotten Amir's incredible PSL 2021 where he picked up 5 wickets in 11 matches at an average of 70. 14 wickets in 18 matches in the last two PSLs that he has played but yeah sure he will knock out international level players in 2023 because the guy bowled brilliantly in 2009.

 

[Mamoon]

PCB gave him a second chance, and this guy still whined and ran away just to play easy t20 cricket to earn easy money.

I don’t condone Amir’s behavior. I think he has handled himself extremely poorly and he should have done a lot more in his second stint in international cricket.

However, this narrative that PCB gave him a second chance and did a favor on him is just wrong. PCB did not look after Amir’s interests and their intention was not to help him.

They were only looking after their own interests. They needed him back because they failed to replace him. He was away for 5 years but Pakistan could not find a crop of bowlers who could fill his void.

Junaid was a spent force after his knee injury in 2014, Irfan was old and a walking injury, Wahab, Rahat, Shinwari etc. were not consistent enough and the likes of Shaheen, Hassan, Rauf, Naseem etc. were yet to emerge.

If Amir was not young and if he had been replaced, PCB would have abandoned him just like they abandoned Butt and Asif.

As a result, Amir owes PCB nothing and he doesn’t need to be grateful to them. However, he should be grateful to the Almighty for creating such circumstances that led to him getting a second chance.

Unfortunately, his ego was too big and there was a sense of entitlement in the way he carried himself. His time is now gone and taking all factors into consideration, there is no reason why he should be brought back into the side at this stage. It is time to move on and not look back.

 

[topspin]

Again I really think Misbah lives in your head. What has Misbah got to do in this discussion?

You made a reference about how I was using more historical performances for Amir. The reason why I can't go beyond the 2019 World Cup is because he got dropped by Misbah, who at the time was abusing his position as Head Coach/Chief Selector. He got hurt by Amir's retirement from red ball cricket and as a result dropped from white ball cricket.

If you want to believe Misbah is the root of all evil in Pakistan and will continue to be so until he's alive, then sure please go ahead and believe it. It doesn't matter one iota to me. I'm not Misbah's lawyer.

But do you want to be Misbah's lawyer? When I see posts like this from yourself, I start to wonder

You can berate Misbah as much as you want but this logic of belittling his achievements because he had Ajmal and Younis in his team is frankly insulting and below the belt.

By that logic, should we now discard all the achievements of Steve Waugh as captain because he had ATG players from 1-11 in his team?

Should we disregard all the achievements of Clive Lloyd as captain when he had an ATG bowling attack?

In the same vein, why couldn't the captains of Pakistan win anything of note in the 90s when Pakistan had a world class team? They lost to SL at home twice, to Zimbabwe, Australia, England, SA.

You want to criticize Misbah - sure go ahead but do it with logic. Not random statements like he won only because he had Ajmal and Younis.

Nobody disowns our people more than our own people. It's ridiculous. Can't even acknowledge someone's achievements.

You say it doesn't matter to you, but I really think it does.

There's more of it on here as well:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...h-ul-Haq-has-to-become-our-coach-again!/page2

You can continue your belief that Amir was the sole architect of our WT20 2009 and Champions Trophy 2017 win. That's your discretion. Others can also have their own opinions that Amir was just one piece of the team that won the tournament.

Having read all of this Amir lovesongs here, now I really want Amir to get selected for the NZ series just so that he can be fully exposed once more how bad of a bowler he is. Just like Sharjeel got exposed in the PSL after having heard so much from one poster here how he is the Big Fish in Pakistan T20 and that Rizwan and Babar are inferior to him.

You may remember 2017 final bowling but I guess you have forgotten Amir's incredible PSL 2021 where he picked up 5 wickets in 11 matches at an average of 70. 14 wickets in 18 matches in the last two PSLs that he has played but yeah sure he will knock out international level players in 2023 because the guy bowled brilliantly in 2009.

Did you know that out of all the pacers (who played at least 5 games) in PSL 2023, only four bowlers had better economy rates than Amir?

Amir may not have the same pace that he used to have but one thing he's never lost is his bowling IQ and holding his nerve when bowling at the death. The same can't be said for the likes of Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Muhammad Wasim Jnr, Hasan Ali and etc. You go ask the best batsmen in the world like Kohli and etc, who would they rather face between these guys and Amir. None of them would want to face the latter because they're well aware of what he can do when the stakes are high.

Lets see if Amir has the motivation to get back to full fitness and represent Pakistan in the ODIs. I actually want us to win the World Cup in India rather than see a repeat of the Misbah Mohali show.

 

[shariqnoor]

You made a reference about how I was using more historical performances for Amir. The reason why I can't go beyond the 2019 World Cup is because he got dropped by Misbah, who at the time was abusing his position as Head Coach/Chief Selector. He got hurt by Amir's retirement from red ball cricket and as a result dropped from white ball cricket.



But do you want to be Misbah's lawyer? When I see posts like this from yourself, I start to wonder



You say it doesn't matter to you, but I really think it does.

There's more of it on here as well:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...h-ul-Haq-has-to-become-our-coach-again!/page2



Did you know that out of all the pacers (who played at least 5 games) in PSL 2023, only four bowlers had better economy rates than Amir?

Amir may not have the same pace that he used to have but one thing he's never lost is his bowling IQ and holding his nerve when bowling at the death. The same can't be said for the likes of Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Muhammad Wasim Jnr, Hasan Ali and etc. You go ask the best batsmen in the world like Kohli and etc, who would they rather face between these guys and Amir. None of them would want to face the latter because they're well aware of what he can do when the stakes are high.

Lets see if Amir has the motivation to get back to full fitness and represent Pakistan in the ODIs. I actually want us to win the World Cup in India rather than see a repeat of the Misbah Mohali show.

So you're bringing in my posts about Misbah which are in fact written on a Misbah thread. What do you want me to talk about on a Misbah thread? Mohammad Amir? I still stand by what I wrote there. Categorically mentioned that you can berate him as much as you want but it's unfair to belittle his achievements. Just like it would be very dishonest of anyone to not acknowledge Amir's impact in certain games.

Also with regards to Amir, so now we are resorting to economy rates when selecting players for ODIs?

 

[MenInG]

The Amir chapter seems to be closed for now. Although, never say never about Pakistan cricket.

 

[shaz619]

Amir is not required. His ceiling is T20's and Pakistan are blessed with options. Amir barely gets through his 4 overs without needing cryogenic chamber afterwards.

With the World Cup on the Horizon, I think his career at the highest level is over and he is a retired cricketer regardless.

 

[MenInG]

Haroon Rasheed on Mohammad Amir:

“Why would selection committee contact anyone? We said it on the first day that the selection door is open for everyone, now it is up to them how they perform. Then we will judge their performance"

 

[topspin]

So you're bringing in my posts about Misbah which are in fact written on a Misbah thread. What do you want me to talk about on a Misbah thread? Mohammad Amir? I still stand by what I wrote there. Categorically mentioned that you can berate him as much as you want but it's unfair to belittle his achievements. Just like it would be very dishonest of anyone to not acknowledge Amir's impact in certain games.

Also with regards to Amir, so now we are resorting to economy rates when selecting players for ODIs?

What is there to be baffled about?

The way I see it, Shaheen and Ihsanullah will be primarily responsible for getting batsmen out as they have significantly higher wicket taking potency. Amir doesn't have that wicket taking ability like he used to. Having said that he can still swing it with the new ball like we saw against Peshawar Zalmi when he dismissed Babar and Haris for ducks last month.

Due to Inshanullah's inexperience and Shaheen's weakness when it comes to bowling at the death, this leaves a need for a bowler who can close out at the back end of an innings. This is a role that Amir (if fully fit) can fufil better than others due to his bowling intelligence and also because he has the composure to deliver in critical overs at the end of an innings. Him and Shaheen should pair up with the new ball with Ihsanullah first change.

Shaheen is my favourite player in the team. He's also undoubtedly Pakistan's best player as well but we saw what happened in the 2021 WT20 semi-final against Australia. I watched his bowling closely at the PSL and it seems that at this stage of his career, he can do everything as a bowler in white ball cricket except master death bowling.

We also saw Haris Rauf against Kohli at the end of last year. Naseem Shah was also poor at the back end during the PSL and also recently in the three match series against Afghanistan.

The point is you need someone who can take responsibility in these critical moments when it's a tight game. Amir has been there and done it. He won't be taking heap of wickets. That's where Shaheen and Ihsanullah can shine. Amir can look for early wickets and if there's no swing, he can close out the match without conceding too many especially in critical moments.

Death bowling is real issue for the white ball side going into the ODI World Cup. That's the only reason why I'm open to seeing Amir play for Pakistan again. I promise you guys like Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Hasan Ali and etc will get owned,. particularly in knockout matches.

 

[Rana]

What is there to be baffled about?

The way I see it, Shaheen and Ihsanullah will be primarily responsible for getting batsmen out as they have significantly higher wicket taking potency. Amir doesn't have that wicket taking ability like he used to. Having said that he can still swing it with the new ball like we saw against Peshawar Zalmi when he dismissed Babar and Haris for ducks last month.

Due to Inshanullah's inexperience and Shaheen's weakness when it comes to bowling at the death, this leaves a need for a bowler who can close out at the back end of an innings. This is a role that Amir (if fully fit) can fufil better than others due to his bowling intelligence and also because he has the composure to deliver in critical overs at the end of an innings. Him and Shaheen should pair up with the new ball with Ihsanullah first change.

Shaheen is my favourite player in the team. He's also undoubtedly Pakistan's best player as well but we saw what happened in the 2021 WT20 semi-final against Australia. I watched his bowling closely at the PSL and it seems that at this stage of his career, he can do everything as a bowler in white ball cricket except master death bowling.

We also saw Haris Rauf against Kohli at the end of last year. Naseem Shah was also poor at the back end during the PSL and also recently in the three match series against Afghanistan.

The point is you need someone who can take responsibility in these critical moments when it's a tight game. Amir has been there and done it. He won't be taking heap of wickets. That's where Shaheen and Ihsanullah can shine. Amir can look for early wickets and if there's no swing, he can close out the match without conceding too many especially in critical moments.

Death bowling is real issue for the white ball side going into the ODI World Cup. That's the only reason why I'm open to seeing Amir play for Pakistan again. I promise you guys like Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf, Hasan Ali and etc will get owned,. particularly in knockout matches.

They will understand the importance of economy when the ball isn’t swinging and their favourites get tonked for 10-12+ an over at the back end.

Especially Shaheen who serves up the best, juicy in the slot balls at the back end

 

[topspin]

They will understand the importance of economy when the ball isn’t swinging and their favourites get tonked for 10-12+ an over at the back end.

Especially Shaheen who serves up the best, juicy in the slot balls at the back end

I really don't understand the facepalm. It's not all about wickets. Economy is just as significant, if not more for Pakistan's ODI team considering the fact that they're lacking a proven and established death bowler who has the nerves of steel to deliver in multiple ICC tournaments against the very best teams in the world.

 

[Rana]

So you're bringing in my posts about Misbah which are in fact written on a Misbah thread. What do you want me to talk about on a Misbah thread? Mohammad Amir? I still stand by what I wrote there. Categorically mentioned that you can berate him as much as you want but it's unfair to belittle his achievements. Just like it would be very dishonest of anyone to not acknowledge Amir's impact in certain games.

Also with regards to Amir, so now we are resorting to economy rates when selecting players for ODIs?

What a joke of a response!

Where are economy rates important if they are not important in white ball cricket???

 

[topspin]

What a joke of a response!

Where are economy rates important if they are not important in white ball cricket???

Yeah really was a case of clutching at straws.

"resorting to economy rates when selecting players for ODIs?"

 

[JAV12341]

We missing out on critical experience and what a wily bowler Amir has become. I think before we moved on with him he deserved one last hurrah at the World Cup even as a back up if he was needed

 

[Zaz]

We missing out on critical experience and what a wily bowler Amir has become. I think before we moved on with him he deserved one last hurrah at the World Cup even as a back up if he was needed

Whats he done recently to deserve a hurrah in a world cup? His attitude is poor and toxic his performances are negligible He doesnt even play domestic cricket anymore and hasnt for years

I ask wheres the performances? Why would management want such an individual who cant produce anymore and on top of that has an attitude against the captain?

 

[shamaan]

I really don't understand the facepalm. It's not all about wickets. Economy is just as significant, if not more for Pakistan's ODI team considering the fact that they're lacking a proven and established death bowler who has the nerves of steel to deliver in multiple ICC tournaments against the very best teams in the world.

Why not give Zaman Khan a longer run he's proberly at the death and is way younger.

 

[shariqnoor]

Yeah really was a case of clutching at straws.

"resorting to economy rates when selecting players for ODIs?"

Lol. We're talking about ODIs not T20s where economy rates matter a lot.

Tell me literally one player who gets selected in ODIs in any team based on his economy?

 

[shariqnoor]

What a joke of a response!

Where are economy rates important if they are not important in white ball cricket???

Poster definition of intellectual dishonesty.

I was clearly talking about ODIs and not T20s but you had to combine both of them up to make your point.

 

[IMMY69]

Living in the UK I had the displeasure of watching Ami play in the 100 in 2021.

Morgan couldn't handle him, Warne couldn't control him and in the end he was dropped...
Forget poor attitude, historical issues regarding match fixing etc etc the guy just isn't the bowler he used to be.

Time to move on from him. His time came, he threw away his best years, so his time came again and then he threw it away again.

On another note, no he did not win us the CT17, yes he performed with the ball in the final but he was injured for the Semi's against England and it was our batters collectively who scored 338 in a final of a match which would have taken a record breaking chase in a final for India to win.

 

[Savak]

The PCB has moved on from him.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

The PCB has moved on from him.

A shame. He could have strengthened his case by being less abrasive and more diplomatic, but we are where we are.

I would have loved to see Amir play ODIs for Pakistan, but it’s over.

Fine

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We need to move away from cake cutters and soft mentality players.

All Amir has done recently is tweet his love for 'king kohli', cut a cake and pull up injured regularly.

For most people these aren't good enough reasons for selection.

 

[Rana]

The PCB has moved on from him.

Source please?

 

[CricVet]

Amir is not FIT to play ODIs. He can clearly be seen panting for air at times even in a short T20 format in tough conditions. I firmly believe that he has left himself no room to get selected for longer LOI format for his fitness - it could be his habits or genes; I have no idea. At his age, I doubt he can contribute for more than a few overs which is a liability. He does not have Parchi of Shan therefore, he is a goner. He was awesome to watch on his days!

 

[Saj]

Does he want to play for Pakistan is the more important question.

I don't think he does. He doesn't need to really does he.

Financially he doesn't need to and physically he probably doesn't want to.

 

[PakHammer]

Does he want to play for Pakistan is the more important question.

I don't think he does. He doesn't need to really does he.

Financially he doesn't need to and physically he probably doesn't want to.

Good, his attitude stinks and plus his record in franchise cricket doesn't warrant an international recall anyhow.

 

[Zaz]

Does he want to play for Pakistan is the more important question.

I don't think he does. He doesn't need to really does he.

Financially he doesn't need to and physically he probably doesn't want to.

Financially he may not but he ll never get the same recognition or the same stature playing franchise cricket which he would putting on the green shirt of pakistan and doing well

To be honest at his age it makes no sense to bring him back for t20s only so that should be it for him from a selction point of view

Pakistan needs bowlers for tests not to bowl 4 overs in a t20

 

[topspin]

Lol. We're talking about ODIs not T20s where economy rates matter a lot.

Tell me literally one player who gets selected in ODIs in any team based on his economy?

I would've appreciated a full response to an earlier post (#133) where I addressed this for you. But I'll summarise it here.

Pakistan's obvious weakness in white ball bowling isn't taking wickets because we have Shaheen and Ihsanullah to perform that role, it's closing out at the back end of an innings.

Therefore, we need someone who is a defensive bowling specialist. Amir can contain and would be the one I would trust the most at the death especially in the bigger contests.

Obviously, you don't pick someone merely for economy rates and for death bowling. If there's swing on offer, Amir has the skills to utilise the new ball as well.

At the end of the day it's up to him whether he has the motivation to get back to full fitness from now in order to make the ODI World Cup squad. I hope he will be because I don't trust Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf or Muhammad Wasim Jnr.

 

[Rana]

I would've appreciated a full response to an earlier post (#133) where I addressed this for you. But I'll summarise it here.

Pakistan's obvious weakness in white ball bowling isn't taking wickets because we have Shaheen and Ihsanullah to perform that role, it's closing out at the back end of an innings.

Therefore, we need someone who is a defensive bowling specialist. Amir can contain and would be the one I would trust the most at the death especially in the bigger contests.

Obviously, you don't pick someone merely for economy rates and for death bowling. If there's swing on offer, Amir has the skills to utilise the new ball as well.

At the end of the day it's up to him whether he has the motivation to get back to full fitness from now in order to make the ODI World Cup squad. I hope he will be because I don't trust Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf or Muhammad Wasim Jnr.

So far in the IPL the new ball has definitely swung. If Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep can bowl so well at his pace I don’t see why Amir can’t. Amir is a far superior white ball bowler than both of them

 

[topspin]

So far in the IPL the new ball has definitely swung. If Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep can bowl so well at his pace I don’t see why Amir can’t. Amir is a far superior white ball bowler than both of them

Yes absolutely. The World Cup will be played in October and November and there'll be matches played under lights. There will be swing on offer for those who know how to bowl with the new ball.

 

[Zaz]

So far in the IPL the new ball has definitely swung. If Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep can bowl so well at his pace I don’t see why Amir can’t. Amir is a far superior white ball bowler than both of them

When was the last time amir played any cricket that was more than 4 overs of bowling?

What your suggesting is history and amir isnt the bowler he once was

He hasnt proven to be otherwise either

 

[shamaan]

So far in the IPL the new ball has definitely swung. If Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep can bowl so well at his pace I don’t see why Amir can’t. Amir is a far superior white ball bowler than both of them

Amir relies more on variations than swing now.Naseem is better swing bowler obviously I expect you to disagree thou.

 

[MenInG]

Every game that Mohammad Amir does not play for Pakistan means his chances of return are diminished further

 

[gazza619]

Amir relies more on variations than swing now.Naseem is better swing bowler obviously I expect you to disagree thou.

Naseem has more pace and swing no doubt but zero brains.

Hence we really need Amir to open the new ball with Shaheen. We only need Amir to bowl 6-7 overs in a 6 man strong bowling attack.

 

[Saj]

I don't think Amir would last a 5 day match.

He'd only be available for white ball stuff, but I'm pretty sure he's not interested in international cricket these days.

 

[shamaan]

Naseem has more pace and swing no doubt but zero brains.

Hence we really need Amir to open the new ball with Shaheen. We only need Amir to bowl 6-7 overs in a 6 man strong bowling attack.

I agree he has no brains but why not give Zaman Khan a chance he has variations pluss he can bowl at the death (Like Amir)