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[PICTURES] How effective will Naseem Shah be on the tour of New Zealand?

tyron_woodley said:
bro that hack trash would get exposed in odi too very soon. he is so overrated. jason roy and all their little hacks will get exposed badly in 2023. Stokes is a legit ATG beast though. root is class. rest are all hacks in their odi team.
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For real. English ODI team is overrated. I rate India and AUS team much higher as they can compete in all conditions.

Roy, Butter, Hales, Barstow, etc are all hacks who only bully on flat tracks.
 
No wickets for him so far against NZ A - hopefully just a case of getting used to the environment but I expected more.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
For real. English ODI team is overrated. I rate India and AUS team much higher as they can compete in all conditions.

Roy, Butter, Hales, Barstow, etc are all hacks who only bully on flat tracks.
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Lol. India are not as good as England. I'd argue that a full strength Australia is one team that can possibly match england on a flat wicket and adapt better to non-flat ones.
 
Naseem is running out of time - he cannot be a passenger on this tour. He was picked for a reason and Waqar and he need to get themselves sorted asap.
 
Waqar has still not resolved his technical issues. He is still the same bowler if not worse than what he was when he came to the side for the first time.

We have fast bowling talent coming in abundance now, but there are no qualified bowlimg coaches who can develop them.
The only guy who has a semblance of knowledge is shoaib, but he doesn’t have the ethic or patience to be a coach.
 
Pacy with wisdom said:
Waqar has still not resolved his technical issues. He is still the same bowler if not worse than what he was when he came to the side for the first time.

We have fast bowling talent coming in abundance now, but there are no qualified bowlimg coaches who can develop them.
The only guy who has a semblance of knowledge is shoaib, but he doesn’t have the ethic or patience to be a coach.
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Time to bring in Ian Pont?
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Time to bring in Ian Pont?
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He is good but I sometimes get the impression that he likes to turn players into robots and doesnt look at bowling from the artistic side.

Anyhow, they cant rely on just one guy. They need a team consisting of a good bowling coach who understandsthe art of bowling as well as its technicalities, a biomechanist and a strength and conditioning coach; preferably from Australia or England.

For the thousandth time let me tell everyone to look past Wasim and Waqar. They were great players but are not good coaches.
Wasim is a natural leader and a great mentor, but not a good technical coach.
 
Naseem has been way too rushed into international cricket. He is far from polished and really needed another season in domestic cricket, or preferably a County/Shield stint before debuting for Pakistan.
 
On evidence, Naseem Shah isn't giving much to the team at the moment.

His reason for being in the team was express pace - which isn't evident. Everything else is work in progress.

At this stage, I'd rather not play him in the first test.
 
Big series for him he must perform otherwise he has to go back to playing in domestic
 
Naseem's stock fell massively on the England tour. If he doesn't perform on this tour, he should be sent back to domestic
 
Savak said:
Naseem's stock fell massively on the England tour. If he doesn't perform on this tour, he should be sent back to domestic
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I think it's better to stick with him and let him play as much International matches as possible, look at Ishant. India sticked with Ishant and now he is the McGrath of India.
 
Not much expecting from the trio of Saheen Naseem n Abbas.... And ofcourse Sohail.......tests would be ruthless 4 Pak batters n bowlers...... Hope the newbies learn something out of these tours
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
I think it's better to stick with him and let him play as much International matches as possible, look at Ishant. India sticked with Ishant and now he is the McGrath of India.
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The diff is height bro......big difference...if it was Shanawaz Dhani or Arshad or Adil i would agree
Naseem need 2 learn 2 bowl consistently on a particular line n length for that he need 2 spend time on nets and domestics
 
Savak said:
Naseem's stock fell massively on the England tour. If he doesn't perform on this tour, he should be sent back to domestic
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I agree hes had the england tour and he will have the new Zealand tour that's enough opportunities he has to peform against new Zealand
 
Good performance today in an ideal world we would be thrilled if a 19-20 is making a winning contribution in a win vs NZL A that too in newwzeland but we have unrealistic expectations from him his level currently is playing fc cricket and A tours and he would be doing fine at that level as his performance showed today its unfair on him if fans and management expect him to win matches in SENA.
 
New Zealand is a relatively enjoyable place to bowl if you have consistency in line/length, which is why Abbas might be the pick of our bowlers. For Shaheen, he has the height to get bounce from the wicket, and his channel should be on the fourth stump line swinging in, or on off-stump at a back-of-a-length and swinging away.

On the subject of Naseem, we know how effective Wagner is on these surfaces. His short-ball tactic works very well, and I think that if Naseem can produce similar deliveries, he'd be a force to reckon with due to his skiddy bouncer. However, he needs to be played in short, aggressive bursts and should be brought on immediately when a new batsman is on the crease, to push them on the back foot and help the other bowlers get edges or LBW.

He can be effective, but it's how he is used which is important.
 
If he plays and can't take wickets, then that will be a huge concern.

The wickets should be ideal for Naseem if they are the usual NZ style wickets.
 
For Naseem and Shaheen to be effective, they have to be used in short sharp bursts and that will require the services of a reliable fifth medium pace bowling all rounder who can keep things tight
 
Savak said:
For Naseem and Shaheen to be effective, they have to be used in short sharp bursts and that will require the services of a reliable fifth medium pace bowling all rounder who can keep things tight
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Only option I see is playing Hussain talat then because Amad or faheem playing would mean yasir has to be dropped and shadab plays but given the current bowling output of shadab h's nothing more than a part timer. Moreover misbah will never drop yasir
 
hur rizvi said:
Only option I see is playing Hussain talat then because Amad or faheem playing would mean yasir has to be dropped and shadab plays but given the current bowling output of shadab h's nothing more than a part timer. Moreover misbah will never drop yasir
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I would personally play 5 bowlers in which Faheem plays as the all rounder. This is the only way we can have a bowling attack which bowls with full intensity in every spell. We need wickets to win in NZ.
 
I sense he will not be picked in the XI and Sohail Khan will be preferred to him.
 
Faheem and Shadab should play alongside Naseem, Shaheen, Abbas and Yasir
 
Savak said:
I would personally play 5 bowlers in which Faheem plays as the all rounder. This is the only way we can have a bowling attack which bowls with full intensity in every spell. We need wickets to win in NZ.
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That's not happening especially with a weakened batting (Babar not playing)
 
Abid
Shan
Azhar
Harris
Fawad
Rizwan (c) (wk)
Shadab
Faheem
Abbas
Naseem
Shaheen
 
Abid
Shan
Azhar
Haris
Fawad
Talat
Rizwan
Shadab
Shaheen
Abbas
Naseem

This is what I hope they go with. They won't drop Yasir though...
 
Naseem Shah should do well here but if he doesn’t then that could mean he needs a bit more time in domestic cricket. The conditions should be ideal for him.
 
The fact that he does well in 4th innings shows he needs assistance from the conditions to be effective. Perhaps roughed up pitch providing seem movement or swifter reversing conditions? He needs to develop a game plan and try to work out a batsman. Otherwise he have had plenty of M. Sami, Wahab, Musa likes
 
If Naseem didn't have a good series on these sort of wickets then he should not play for Pakistan, pitches in NZ would be extremely bowling friendly & Naseem should get at least 12-15 wickets @ decent average otherwise he should go back to domestic.
 
Yes I am on of his beige est supporters but yeah a mediocre series here and he should be send to domestics for atleast 2 seasons and notbeen givin another go unless he picks 70-80 fc wickets at 22-23.
 
ChTab said:
If Naseem didn't have a good series on these sort of wickets then he should not play for Pakistan, pitches in NZ would be extremely bowling friendly & Naseem should get at least 12-15 wickets @ decent average otherwise he should go back to domestic.
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12 to 15 wickets is too much to ask in a two match series .If he gets 6 to 10 wickets it will be a decent tour for him
 
hur rizvi said:
Only option I see is playing Hussain talat then because Amad or faheem playing would mean yasir has to be dropped and shadab plays but given the current bowling output of shadab h's nothing more than a part timer. Moreover misbah will never drop yasir
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shadab can play as a batting all rounder then you can have 4 man attack
 
Savak said:
I would personally play 5 bowlers in which Faheem plays as the all rounder. This is the only way we can have a bowling attack which bowls with full intensity in every spell. We need wickets to win in NZ.
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defonitely 4 fast bowlers pluss a batting all rounder in shadab
 
big tour for naseem he must get wickets otherwise he will have to go back to domestic.conditions should suit him thou
 
Wicketless on Day 1 of the 1st Test; Expected more from him but is he out of his depth in Tests at the moment?
 
He is not good enough

He was never good enough but what kind of rehab programe was there for him that he has lost 5 to 8kph of pace?
 
shah_1 said:
He is not good enough

He was never good enough but what kind of rehab programe was there for him that he has lost 5 to 8kph of pace?
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It's the Waqar Younis effect. Mohd Asif is spot on about coaches over coaching and destroying fast bowlers
 
Big mouth, zero performance.

Naseem’s humiliation continues.
 
He is a mediocre bowler whose skill set is that of a domestic level bowler but gets a free pass because of his fudged age and the so called ‘potential.’

Also it’s a very smart decision on the part of the management to play him because they can always excuse their pathetic performances by bringing the ‘age’ excuse and the ‘building for the future’ topi drama.

If he was seen as close to his real age of 21-22 then he wouldn’t be getting a look in in the international side. Due to his fake age he is taking place of bowlers who deserve a run.
 
Slog said:
He is a mediocre bowler whose skill set is that of a domestic level bowler but gets a free pass because of his fudged age and the so called ‘potential.’

Also it’s a very smart decision on the part of the management to play him because they can always excuse their pathetic performances by bringing the ‘age’ excuse and the ‘building for the future’ topi drama.

If he was seen as close to his real age of 21-22 then he wouldn’t be getting a look in in the international side. Due to his fake age he is taking place of bowlers who deserve a run.
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How do you know his real age is 21-22? And who are these bowlers who deserve a run?
 
Arsal_AK said:
How do you know his real age is 21-22? And who are these bowlers who deserve a run?
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Clearly he doesn’t deserve a run though so that means there could be a few contenders.

I know he’s not 17 because I have eyes and have seen how things work in this country and especially the region where he’s from. But that besides the point. The thing is that even if he is actually 17 I don’t see why he should be playing when he isn’t up to the task. He shouldn’t be playing due to his future ‘potential’ if he can’t get the job done today. He can play when he’s ready. It’s international cricket not some apprenticeship.
 
Mamoon said:
He told Saj himself.

Naseem was 16 in 2016, not 2019.
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No he didn't. I remember the whole fiasco, with everyone coming up with a number/source. Saj confirmed that he was 17 not 16 on the Australia tour. Naseem said the same thing whether to Saj or independently I don't remember. That makes him 18-19. Not 21-22.
 
Arsal_AK said:
No he didn't. I remember the whole fiasco, with everyone coming up with a number/source. Saj confirmed that he was 17 not 16 on the Australia tour. Naseem said the same thing whether to Saj or independently I don't remember. That makes him 18-19. Not 21-22.
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This is all besides the point though. The simple fact is that whether he’s 17 or 22 or 27; Naseem isn’t ready for Test cricket and never did enough to deserve a spot in the first place. Just because he may be 17 we shouldn’t be playing him for potentially developing into some star at the age of 20. It’s international cricket for Pakistan not some apprenticeship.
 
[MENTION=129984]LegendAli[/MENTION]
[MENTION=132855]Arsal_AK[/MENTION]

KARACHI: A quartet of former international cricket stars were extremely pleased with the talent that showed up at Karachi Sports Foundation’s (KSF) ‘Kriket Superstars’, a coaching-based TV reality program.

For Andy Roberts, the legendary West Indies fast bowler of the 1970s and 80s, the time he spent in Pakistan for the show was “most memorable and enjoyable”.

“I must say that I very much liked a young fast bowler by the name of Naseem. He is just 16-year-old. I am sorry that I did not have at least two, three weeks’ time to work with him,” the 65-year-old Antiguan, who is also known as Sir Anderson after being appointed a Knight Commander of the Order of Nation by his country in February 2014.
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1288422

Date: 7 October 2016

Andy Roberts wouldn’t have known how old Naseem was, he must have been told by Naseem himself or PCB or the organizers of the program.

Also, here is a tweet by Saj on 1 December 2018:

2D8BEAA5-9C70-40FD-9329-BD57611FB9DB.jpg

Saj called him a 17 year old in December 2018.

So he was 16 in October 2016, remained in 16 in 2017 and then turned 17 in December 2018.

Then when he toured Australia in December 2019, PCB turned the clock back and he became 16 again.

Also, check Saj’s post in this thread (#31):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-international-or-just-let-them-be&styleid=16

Date: 25 November 2019

Saj said:
The Naseem Shah age episode has been a farce.

He was 17 over a year ago when I tweeted about him.

2 years ago he was 16 when Andy Roberts commented about him.

Now suddenly he's 16 again.
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It couldn’t be more obvious that Naseem is an age cheat, and his stated age in October 2016 (16 year old) is most probably his real age which makes him 20-21 today.
 
MesonK said:
people will have to go by what is written in records.

age fudging is a serious fraud in South Asian+Afg teams. It should be criminalized and wrist tests need to be performed on players.

Till then, we have to go by whats registered in records.
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The point is age shouldn’t be the reason to be selected. If Naseem was 21-22 officially he would never have been selected with his sample set of domestic performances so quickly
 
Ends up with 1/96 in the first innings - Wicket of Nicolls

EqM3tIqWMAEXOr2
 
We misjudged his potential. He can't seem to replicate the type of movement he was getting at junior level. Should spend more time in domestics.

Harris should replace him in next match.
 
Greenstorm said:
We misjudged his potential. He can't seem to replicate the type of movement he was getting at junior level. Should spend more time in domestics.

Harris should replace him in next match.
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I think we judged his potential just fine. The problem is, if he was 60% of potential a year ago, he is now 40% of potential.

He is down on pace and rhythm and has some very horrifying adjustments to his action that Misbah and Waqar must be questioned about in the next press conference. A) why these changes and B) why select him if he’s clearly out of it.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=129984]LegendAli[/MENTION]

[MENTION=132855]Arsal_AK[/MENTION]



https://www.dawn.com/news/1288422

Date: 7 October 2016

Andy Roberts wouldn’t have known how old Naseem was, he must have been told by Naseem himself or PCB or the organizers of the program.

Also, here is a tweet by Saj on 1 December 2018:

View attachment 105595

Saj called him a 17 year old in December 2018.

So he was 16 in October 2016, remained in 16 in 2017 and then turned 17 in December 2018.

Then when he toured Australia in December 2019, PCB turned the clock back and he became 16 again.

Also, check Saj’s post in this thread (#31):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-international-or-just-let-them-be&styleid=16

Date: 25 November 2019



It couldn’t be more obvious that Naseem is an age cheat, and his stated age in October 2016 (16 year old) is most probably his real age which makes him 20-21 today.
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Nothing but truth. But he is not living up to the hyped talent as well.
 
Has been toothless for a while.

But i am not sure. Maybe we are being impatient with him. He has only been around for a year and a half iirc.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
I think we judged his potential just fine. The problem is, if he was 60% of potential a year ago, he is now 40% of potential.

He is down on pace and rhythm and has some very horrifying adjustments to his action that Misbah and Waqar must be questioned about in the next press conference. A) why these changes and B) why select him if he’s clearly out of it.
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He was selected in this test so that excuses can be made later on, 'a teenage bowler finding his feet in test cricket'. I don't see any other reason.

I was excited when he made his debut in Aus. Eventhough he was not getting many wickets, but still he had pace, bounce, swagger :steyn. He has only regressed since then instead of improving.

It is a common theme under this doomed Misbah-Waqar combo. Players tend to lose their expression and become boring and dull.
 
Slog said:
This is all besides the point though. The simple fact is that whether he’s 17 or 22 or 27; Naseem isn’t ready for Test cricket and never did enough to deserve a spot in the first place. Just because he may be 17 we shouldn’t be playing him for potentially developing into some star at the age of 20. It’s international cricket for Pakistan not some apprenticeship.
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THIS!!

For all the people asking for younger players to be included just for the hell of it (Hasnain types)

This is PCT not mechanics garage in need of a chotu ...
 
MMHS said:
Typical NZ tracks won’t suit Naseem’s bowling. Shaheen is much more complete and at least 8 inches taller, therefore he’ll trouble batsmen on most surfaces but what Kiwis put against India, if similar tracks are used, I think most successful pacer will be Abbas.

Still, Naseem will have to bowl pathetically to match his English tour numbers. Last time, before English tour, I read in PP for Naseem to take 20 wickets... it’s nice to see PP is much more humble this time. 7 wickets at around 29 in two Tests will be excellent for me, anything better than that is great; but I won’t be disappointed with 6 at 35 - that’s actually four times better than English tour - twice the wickets, half the average.
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So, it earned 4 wickets at 70+ Average & like 4.6 (?) economy. And, I’m not going to how those 4 were taken ...

Have to say - I’m disappointed. At least “kid” should have done a little better for PP to be excited. At this rate, before taking 80-100 wickets in 20 Tests, he’ll have to do lot better to play 20 Tests first.
[MENTION=149054]shamaan[/MENTION] - no bro, Kiwi wickets were never going to suit him, though this was beyond suiting any condition. And pls, don’t be fooled ever with Waquar Younis comparison - young Waquar was twice the bowler than Naseem Shah can ever dream off - that’s with new ball; with old ball, .... deluded people should be charged for blasphemy.
 
In every Naseem thread, you will find the same 2-3 “experts” getting exposed worse than Naseem in Australia, England and New Zealand.

These experts also argue as if they know what they are talking about. That is the real problem.
 
I had low expectations from him, but wow, he went on set records for worst pace-bowling ever. That I did not expect.
 
Pacy with wisdom said:
Thankyou for the information brother.
Since you have access to him. Ask him how he feels about making his runup slightly angular.
Most fast bowling experts including Shoaib Akhtar and Wasim believe that it will compliment his side on action.
At the moment his dead straight running approach doesn't allow him to complete his action completely, which is why his bowling arm ends up between his legs. It also makes him bowl from wide off the crease which doesn't make his lines as attacking as they can be.
An angular run up akin to what Waqar( who also had a side-on action) had will solve these problems to a great extent.
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This was what he needed when I saw him in England.
Too bad, that he regressed instead of improving.
Just goes on to show that the advice he is getting is counterproductive.
 
Superstar Naseem shah will prove everyone wrong and take 100 wickets in next 10 test matches. Please ignore his bowling average of over 42 in first 9 tests, remember that batsmen's eyes fill with fear when they see superstar Naseem bowling to them.
 
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