[PICTURES] Is this all-spinners attack strategy sustainable for a longer period?

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan was losing both home and abroad , now some sense has prevailed and they have tried to take home advantage. This is the right thing to do.

Pakistan need to get proper spin playing batters. Those who as a unit can get 300 runs.

 

[Pakpak]

Many posters here won’t appreciate these pitches because Rizwan and Babar aren’t scoring runs, yet Pakistan are still winning. They’d prefer the pitches prepared during Ramiz’s time, where Babar was piling on runs with ease, but Pakistan were losing.

Braineless comments. Surely there is a fine balance between the two as noone here supported the disgraceful pitches under Ramiz either. What we'd want is the excellent ones when we played SA at home back then. If this was say against Lyon or Maharaj we'd not even make a 100. Some unknown hack Warrican destroyed us in second innings.

Our young players won't ever make runs or dominate at home and will simply have to learn to play abroad. Last time a Pakistan pacer took a home wicket was 58 wickets away. This means we can never play young pacers at home and will expect them to come good abroad, which even for the best of teams is very hard never mind our team which has a shyness to win abroad.

 

[emranabbas]

Braineless comments. Surely there is a fine balance between the two as noone here supported the disgraceful pitches under Ramiz either. What we'd want is the excellent ones when we played SA at home back then. If this was say against Lyon or Maharaj we'd not even make a 100. Some unknown hack Warrican destroyed us in second innings.

Our young players won't ever make runs or dominate at home and will simply have to learn to play abroad. Last time a Pakistan pacer took a home wicket was 58 wickets away. This means we can never play young pacers at home and will expect them to come good abroad, which even for the best of teams is very hard never mind our team which has a shyness to win abroad.

What exactly is domestic cricket for? You can prepare you pitches however you want over there

 

[Bewal Express]

No. On these sort of wickets lottery wickets you can also get smashed 3-0.[

 

[FearlessRoar]

Shan Masood, after winning the 1st Test against the West Indies, spoke about the all-spin attack during the press conference:

"In Test cricket, sometimes you have to make sacrifices, just like fast bowlers sometimes have to adjust their roles."

"Continuity matters a lot. You have to back your players and give them the chance to fail. You need to realize that the hard work you're doing will bring something better in the end."

Meanwhile, West Indies captain Kraigg Brathwaite, while addressing the press conference, said:

"They're at home so they got their decision how they want the pitch to behave."

"It was a difficult pitch to bat on for sure."

"We expect the same type of pitch in the second Test so we got to come better with bravery and belief."

 

[hassan918]

It also depend on the opposition. I don't think we should make such tracks against Sri Lanka or India who usually play spin very well but it is anybody's guess when we will be playing against India in Pakistan.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

No, its not gonna last long.

The success of this strategy will be evaluated by result of next WTC cycle, I don't think Pakistan is going to win against strong teams regularly with this strategy.

Also unlike Indian pitches, Pakistan has basically made fast bowling null and void here, in India Shami, Umesh, Bumrah, Ishant took a lot of wickets.

Pitches can be turners but the last three were just too much, no use of pace bowlers here.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

In a horses for courses selection it will.

 

[Vikram1989]

Its like indians in 90s or bng at mirpur ricebowl against sena. Tigers at home lambs abroad. Long term view is mandatory . short term is useful for a particular scenario such as a student preparing for an optional subject/course day before exams.it never gives a new batsmen or fast bowler to grow.pak needs quite a few of them for future.

 

[Savak]

Need to have a pacer who can be utilized to bowl short bursts and exploit reverse swing. Noman and Sajid eventually get tired bowling unlimited overs and this allows a late order partnership to take advantage, need to have a fresh pacer adept at reverse swing to make an impact especially against the tail.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Its like indians in 90s or bng at mirpur ricebowl against sena. Tigers at home lambs abroad. Long term view is mandatory . short term is useful for a particular scenario such as a student preparing for an optional subject/course day before exams.it never gives a new batsmen or fast bowler to grow.pak needs quite a few of them for future.

Yea.. Nilesh kulkarni, venky Raju, Sanghvi, Bahutule, Rajesh chauhan bunch of nobodies and Kumble. Those were the actual designer pitches. You knew what will happen.

 

[Farabi]

Disgraceful pitches. What a low standard we have. Make pitches where we can't bat either. So only time our players ESP new ones will be tested on pace is abroad.

I don't get why we can't make pitches like SA. We almost beat them, I'm sure we'd beat WI. Instead of tracks where our own batting is not even making 160 against a trash WI attack.

Exactly!

Pakistan should continue to sustain its impeccable record at home. We should not keep Malcolm Marshall, Denis Lilee, McGrath on the bench. We should make green wickets.

We should also apologize to WI and England for making spin pitches.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Pakistan is back to the glory of spinners

 

[IAJ]

Pakistan was losing both home and abroad , now some sense has prevailed and they have tried to take home advantage. This is the right thing to do.

Pakistan need to get proper spin playing batters. Those who as a unit can get 300 runs.

Agree. Every team does this, so no big deal.

 

[Pakpak]

Exactly!

Pakistan should continue to sustain its impeccable record at home. We should not keep Malcolm Marshall, Denis Lilee, McGrath on the bench. We should make green wickets.

We should also apologize to WI and England for making spin pitches.

No no i agree with you now. I change my mind.

What we should be doing is bowling out a 45 and a mid 30 year old everyday. And then when we loss the toss to any decent team with a spinner and get battered we should cry luck.

Not only that but under your genius model the first time our pacers get to play is abroad which should be a great and totally normal experience for new players.

 

[Farabi]

No no i agree with you now. I change my mind.

What we should be doing is bowling out a 45 and a mid 30 year old everyday. And then when we loss the toss to any decent team with a spinner and get battered we should cry luck.

Not only that but under your genius model the first time our pacers get to play is abroad which should be a great and totally normal experience for new players.

We’ve beaten England after losing the toss, so it’s not impossible with the right approach.

SENA teams stick to pace-friendly pitches at home and don’t waste home Tests preparing for spin tracks to succeed in Asia.

New Zealand doesn’t have spin-friendly pitches at home, yet they beat India 3-0 in India.

India, on the other hand, prepares spin tracks at home and saves their pacers for away games—keeping them fresh. Bumrah leads away; Ashwin and Jadeja dominate at home. Why can’t we do something similar?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There's no value in losing on a "good pitch" because in the end you still lost.

If it keeps producing results, there's nothing wrong with using this strategy at home. For those worried about developing pacers or batsmen for bouncy/swinging tracks, that needs to be handled through Pakistan A tours + having a diversity of pitches at the domestic level.

Secure your home first and then worry about foreign conditions.

Correct. The MCC manual for good pitches needs to be thrown out of the window.

As long as a pitch produces results and is not dangerous , it should be good enough.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Bazid Khan, during a program on a local sports channel:

"Any team would have faced difficulty. West Indies struggles against spinners in recent past. If England or any other team were here, batting would have been difficult. Bangladesh and Sri Lanka would also struggle on this kind of pitch. Our spinners are more accurate, their deliveries hit the stumps more often."

 

[Kianig89]

Well Pakistan does not have any choice , going with spin is the only way for them.The important part is to make sure Pakistan's batsmen are capable of playing spin to ensure the advantage

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I don't understand this criticism of Pakistan and these surfaces. They want to win matches at home and they have found a way.

If India can mess up with the pitch in WC final then why can't Pakistan prepare tailor made pitches for advantage at home

 

[Justcrazy]

Too much planning for Long term is overrated. Bottamline is winning games. Just keep preparing turning surfaces in home series and take advantage of that , because when you abroad you will be welcomed with green bouncy surfaces.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Spin strategy not only working for Pakistan but also for the opposition. Our batters just cannot play spin.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Maza aagya?

Aqib is gonna terminate our test cricket and first class cricket based on this crap plan.

 

[Pakpak]

Hope people like Farabi and emran are enjoying this. Against a better side we'd not even made a 100. This strategy is okay one off but relies heavily on the toss for one and secondly depends a lot on the opposition. It was common sense. Instead of some posters doing bhangras or accusing others of being a 'cult', should have thought critically.

We may very well still win this but struggling like this vs the WI is dire.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Opposition teams have started noticing the predictability. If opposition doesn't know what they will get that is one thing. But with Pakistan you know even before you come here. Had Windies brought Akeal Hosein as well this innings would not have even lasted this long for Pakistan.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Hope people like Farabi and emran are enjoying this. Against a better side we'd not even made a 100. This strategy is okay one off but relies heavily on the toss for one and secondly depends a lot on the opposition. It was common sense. Instead of some posters doing bhangras or accusing others of being a 'cult', should have thought critically.

We may very well still win this but struggling like this vs the WI is dire.

Aqib has interview where he wants to make our first class cricket pitches the same.

He will kill our cricket across all formats with this approach. This lunacy must be stopped.

 

[AZulfi]

The farcical strategy of preparing extreme spinning tracks at home backfired today. ‘What your spinners can do, we can do even better!’ …. nehle pe dehla!

This game might finish tomorrow and Pakistan might lose this game now.

Windies know they only have to make around 150 runs in the second innings to secure victory in this test.

20 wickets falling in one day is not good advertisement for test cricket..

 

[moghul]

West Indies does not have the best spinners in the world even then they outbowled Pakistan in this innings . Imagine what likes of Santner, Maharaj and Shamsi will do on these wickets . India also initially had the success at home on rank turner but lately they are losing . New Zealand white washed them.

This is losing strategy, go back to " normal" cricket and try to win from there.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Aqib has interview where he wants to make our first class cricket pitches the same.

He will kill our cricket across all formats with this approach. This lunacy must be stopped.

Khurram shazhad was geting seam movement int he last match. Ball decked away after pitching. But Shan masood immediately switched to spin after 1 over. Shan masood reminds me of Mohammad Azharuddin from the mid 90s. But even he used Srinath, Prasad, Prabakar significantly more on similar designer tracks. Shan Masood will effectively kill fast bowling culture with his "let me save my head" strategy which is eerily similar to Azharuddin's strategy.

 

[Pakpak]

Better strategy is to make pitches which offer a moderate amount of turn but leave enough for batting. That way we can atleast out bat them.

But our moronic think tanks have to take everything to extremes.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Khurram shazhad was geting seam movement int he last match. Ball decked away after pitching. But Shan masood immediately switched to spin after 1 over. Shan masood reminds me of Mohammad Azharuddin from the mid 90s. But even he used Srinath, Prasad, Prabakar significantly more on similar designer tracks. Shan Masood will effectively kill fast bowling culture with his "let me save my head" strategy which is eerily similar to Azharuddin's strategy.

Shan is less to blame. Yes he is poor but is given the reigns of a poor team with poor planning.

Gillespie wanted to revive Pakistan fast bowling but wasn't able to implement a long term vision because our set up focuses too much on short term.

We enjoyed the series win against England because we won after a long time but they have went to new extremes with this strategy and Aqib plan to rip up domestic cricket and focus on this tripe will be the final nail in the coffin.

Shan is naturally gonna be defensive because he has no credit in the bank as a player or captain. His best batsman has forgotten how to bat and his best bowlers have run away from test cricket. In such a scenario you can see why he would rather keep his head intact from match to match than think about anything else.

 

[jnaveen1980]

West Indies does not have the best spinners in the world even then they outbowled Pakistan in this innings . Imagine what likes of Santner, Maharaj and Shamsi will do on these wickets . India also initially had the success at home on rank turner but lately they are losing . New Zealand white washed them.

This is losing strategy, go back to " normal" cricket and try to win from there.

I think high time we have stop drawing a parallel with India. India has given such tracks once every few matches. Vast majority of the tracks were traditional tracks where ball would not turn square until day 3 or 4. Seamers would do a lot of damage with ball. After test championship came into play Dravid got a bit obsessed with winning at home which we were already doing at home. It backfired badly. When India had decent tracks without too much turn they hardly lost any game.


Kkohli 31 tests lost only 2 at home won 24
MSD 22 tests lost only 3 at home won 15
Rohit 16 tests lost 5 tests won 10
Rahane 3 tests lost 0 won 2

batting average under Kohli was 43.00
batting average under MSD 42.64
batting average uner Rohit 33.59
batting average under Rahane 38.23

As you see batting average is significantly lower whenever ROhit captained meaning pitches were overly helpful which brought opposition into the equation. Ofcourse seamers also benefitted occasionally like at Bengaluru where India was all out for 46.


LOok at the bwatting average under Sean masood in the last 4 tests including this one. It is a paltry 24.73. That means this is beyond ridiculous.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Shan is less to blame. Yes he is poor but is given the reigns of a poor team with poor planning.

Gillespie wanted to revive Pakistan fast bowling but wasn't able to implement a long term vision because our set up focuses too much on short term.

We enjoyed the series win against England because we won after a long time but they have went to new extremes with this strategy and Aqib plan to rip up domestic cricket and focus on this tripe will be the final nail in the coffin.

Shan is naturally gonna be defensive because he has no credit in the bank as a player or captain. His best batsman has forgotten how to bat and his best bowlers have run away from test cricket. In such a scenario you can see why he would rather keep his head intact from match to match than think about anything else.

The thing is do you really need this strategy against a tier 2 team West Indies. Here you have a team that come here with almost everyone with a batting average 30 or below. They got blown away by Bangladesh pace attack in 3 back to back innings in their own home. Serving up a track like this for a SENA team is onet hing. But this is complete desperation.

 

[deep82]

Pakistan is going too far with this designer pitches fiasco for all test matches. Once in while, such pitches are fine as its fun to see the batsman dance. But just persisting with such rigged pitches for all matches is killing cricket in silent mode.

Don't compare it with India as they don't produce these pitches all the time. Classic example is India 4-1 demolition of England last series where not a single designer pitch was prepared. India generally rig 1/2 tests in 4/5 test series. But Pakistan has done it for 4 test matches in a row.

Shaheen/Naseem are already reduced to white ball specialists while most of the fill in fast bowlers will be discarded/forgotten in no time in few years.

 

[Kianig89]

It was bound to happen , an unlucky flip of the coin and you are done , mediocrity cannot be covered by nature of pitches

 

[FearlessRoar]

Have to agree with him

https://twitter.com/x/status/1883419062639726853

 

[Kianig89]

Have to agree with him

https://twitter.com/x/status/1883419062639726853

And put Fast bowlers to sleep, this lackadaical approach

 

[FearlessRoar]

Sajid Khan addressing the press conference post Day 2 of the second Test between Pakistan and West Indies:

"Initially, the new ball helped the spinners, providing a bit of bounce and turn. However, as the ball gets older and the game progresses, the batters get more time to settle and play with more ease."

"It’s important to note that lower-order batters are now scoring much more effectively. Cricket has become more professional, and it's no longer easy to dismiss tailenders. They have the skills to contribute, just like the top-order batters."

"While we focus on taking 10 wickets, it’s equally important that our batters step up. We understand that the responsibility lies with us to find solutions for playing spin better, and we’re working hard to do that."

"These pitches are not impossible to play on, but they require effort and patience. We are determined to keep fighting, and with the right mindset and strategy, we can turn this situation around."

"The way we’re creating results with these pitches has sparked interest in Test cricket. People are now paying attention to the game, which wasn’t the case before. Whether we win or lose, the crowd’s engagement is a positive sign for the sport."

 

[Barragan]

Yes, this is the way to go

The batsmen can't bat on green or bouncy pitches

Get outdone on flat tracks and bowlers too

So, what are they good at?

Spinning pitches has brought some success and weed out those that cannot bat on these pitches

 

[Kianig89]

Sajid Khan addressing the press conference post Day 2 of the second Test between Pakistan and West Indies:

"Initially, the new ball helped the spinners, providing a bit of bounce and turn. However, as the ball gets older and the game progresses, the batters get more time to settle and play with more ease."

"It’s important to note that lower-order batters are now scoring much more effectively. Cricket has become more professional, and it's no longer easy to dismiss tailenders. They have the skills to contribute, just like the top-order batters."

"While we focus on taking 10 wickets, it’s equally important that our batters step up. We understand that the responsibility lies with us to find solutions for playing spin better, and we’re working hard to do that."

"These pitches are not impossible to play on, but they require effort and patience. We are determined to keep fighting, and with the right mindset and strategy, we can turn this situation around."

"The way we’re creating results with these pitches has sparked interest in Test cricket. People are now paying attention to the game, which wasn’t the case before. Whether we win or lose, the crowd’s engagement is a positive sign for the sport."

Sounds like a 3rd world diplomat,

 

[Farabi]

Hope people like Farabi and emran are enjoying this. Against a better side we'd not even made a 100. This strategy is okay one off but relies heavily on the toss for one and secondly depends a lot on the opposition. It was common sense. Instead of some posters doing bhangras or accusing others of being a 'cult', should have thought critically.

We may very well still win this but struggling like this vs the WI is dire.

“Aap nai ghabrana nahi hai.”

First off, let’s be clear—WI is not a better side than England.

Secondly, Pakistan managed to win a Test against England even after losing the toss.

Lastly, the pitches against WI are different from the ones prepared for England. Pakistan should revert from this greenhouse method to the industrial fan approach, which was less extreme and brought more skill into play.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan have gone from one extreme (Ramiz Raja's super flat wickets) to another (rank turners).

They've turned into India's 70s team.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The most spin-friendly pitches for a series in Test history?

Lowest bowling strike rate for spinners in a series (min 50 wkts):

28.8 - PAK v WI 2025
37.0 - IND v NZ 2024
38.1 - BAN v WI 2018
39.3 - SL v SA 2018
40.4 - IND v SA 2015

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There is a happy medium like what we saw in the England series. Pakistan simply got overconfident here thinking they could just roll over the West Indies on a rank-turner. Full credit to West Indies for adapting to the conditions brilliantly and beating Pakistan at their own game.

That said, Pakistan should not take the wrong lessons from this defeat. Spin-friendly pitches are the only way they can become successful at home.

 

[Pakpak]

@Farabi @emranabbas

Hope you guys are happy with this outstanding performance. Happened exactly like I and many others with basic common sense predicted.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Spin use is ridiculous especilaly in the last 4 tests in pakistan. 376 overs bowled by Pakistan of which 358.4 were bowled by Spin. About 17 overs by pacers.

 

[Varun]

Even an ATG like Tendulkar struggled on such pitches vs England 2012, for example.

The current crop of sub-continental batters haven't got the chops to turn the lottery in their favour on these spinning pitches. Hence the recent victories by the likes of West Indies and New Zealand.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Many Ppers were confident that India only won because of spin pitches.

Just goes to show how difficult it was to win every single series(18 consecutive I think) for nearly 12 years on,allegedly, doctored spin pitches.

Here, it has backfired in the very second series on Pakistan

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Many Ppers were confident that India only won because of spin pitches.

Just goes to show how difficult it was to win every single series(18 consecutive I think) for nearly 12 years on,allegedly, doctored spin pitches.

Here, it has backfired in the very second series on Pakistan

You can call it the first series.

England came prepared for phattas and were caught of guard after a mid series shift.

And anyway it's nothing like th India strategy. It's worse than the Bangladesh strategy.

 

[kingusama92]

Consistency will be key. Just don't go flip-flopping strategies.

Between 2025-2027 (the next WTC cycle) they can resort to this type of strategy but I would tone it down a bit. Make it less of a lottery but still prepare dry wickets that will turn from day 3.

Pitch preparation itself is an art and it's not as simple as turning on a switch. Lots of factors play a role including soil, time of year, existing conditions, and time. I think they were playing it safe by producing all-out rank turners in Multan to ensure it wouldn't harden because Multan is known for being a flat wicket.

Some of the most brutal highways have been produced at this stadium.

In the coming year, they need to perfect this in domestic cricket across the various stadiums. Get the players used to playing on turning wickets (not rank turners) so they develop their batting to handle such conditions. It will also shed light on which batsmen are good players of spin.

I've mentioned this before but they have to fill one if not two spots.

Saim
Shan
X
X
Saud
Rizwan
Agha

Those two spots need to be handled by good players of spin. At worst, you can keep one of Babar/Ghulam while finding another middle-order batsman that's in form and can handle turning wickets.

It's early days with this strategy but it can work.

Before this, they were totally aimless. I know there are detractors (tbf I understand their points about rank turners) but you also can't be out of sorts like Pakistan has been for the past 3-4 years. This way they're giving themselves a chance to win a few series and collect WTC points.