[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Ravichandran Ashwin announces retirement from international cricket [Update@ Post# 1376]

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

got ABD for duck lol. Champ!

lol what? Watch the match first and stop embarrassing yourself. Jadeja got AB for duck.

 

[Bilal7]

Yasir wont be more devastating on rank turners because these kind of pitches suits off spinners more than leggie. Even in this game, Imran Tahir was nothing special and SA no name off spinners took most wickets.

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Yasir Shah is a quality leg-spinner, Tahir is a poor one. Quality leg-spinners are good everywhere and unplayable on rank turners.

 

[Zak_Fan]

This is almost as bad as looking at Ashwin's and Shah's averages in Asia and deducing that the former is better from that. Cook and KP played some superb innings in that series, they would not have been lauded as much if they were playing on flat tracks.

The batsmen playing out of their skins is why they were able to score runs. Things were certainly not as bad as the current series but to say that those were batting friendly conditions is laughable.



Laughable stuff to say the least. It is to be expected of Electron though, he has been trying so hard to put India's bowling on the level of Pakistan, over two different accounts.

So pitches were bad for batting yet 400, 500 and 600 scores were being scored regularly in every series?

Find some sense or don't bother replying Bilal bhai.

 

[ali2220]

Yasir wont be more devastating on rank turners because these kind of pitches suits off spinners more than leggie. Even in this game, Imran Tahir was nothing special and SA no name off spinners took most wickets.

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Imran Tahir is a very very ordinary test spinner.

 

[Zak_Fan]

I love it when Bilal7 is cornered into a place where he can't find a comeback. Brings out his inner troll so quick.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

So you calling Bangalore a rank turner too?

Just cos Amla and ABD got out?

How about them not playing well in Bangalore (ABD did play well and got runs).

India were 80-0 in Bangalore at the close of play.

I remember when teams were getting bowled out for 50 or so runs in south africa few years ago. Nobody complained back then. India have every right to prepare the pitches that suits them.

 

[Bilal7]

No brother.

1st Test - West Indies 304 and 180; India 209 and 276/5

2nd Test - India 631/7d; West Indies 153 and 463

3rd Test - West Indies 590 and 134; India 482 and 242/9

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-west-indies-2011/engine/series/535995.html

No matter what the series, crazy runs have been scored in India and Ashwin still shone bright. Anyone who thinks that Ashwin's wickets in India were any easier is being biased.

Yes, Indian fans are being biased against Ashwin but a few known members of the Indian chest thumping brigade are unbiased. Yeah right.

 

[Bilal7]

So pitches were bad for batting yet 400, 500 and 600 scores were being scored regularly in every series?

Find some sense or don't bother replying Bilal bhai.

I already gave you the reasons for that and you still fail to acknowledge the truth. What were the averages of Swann, Ojha and Monty Panesar in that Inda vs England series?

 

[Ironcat]

LoL.The same isnt the case when PPers want to big up Waqar Younis.

Those who swear by strike rates will bring them up, sure. The fact is, you don't win tests by number of deliveries - but rather by runs.

 

[Bilal7]

I love it when Bilal7 is cornered into a place where he can't find a comeback. Brings out his inner troll so quick.

Unfortunately, I have much to learn from you on that account, Electron.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Yes, Indian fans are being biased against Ashwin but a few known members of the Indian chest thumping brigade are unbiased. Yeah right.

For the last time Bilal7, Ashwin bowled on pitches where 400, 500 and 600 were being scored regularly. Would you honestly call them rank-turners or hard for batting?

Don't speak trollish plz, reply like a reasonable guy cuz I know you have that part hidden somewhere.

 

[ali2220]

For the last time Bilal7, Ashwin bowled on pitches turners where 400, 500 and 600 were being scored regularly? Would you honestly call them rank-turners or hard for batting?

Does it matters, as some Indians are saying that Yasir would have been unsuccessful even on rank turners!

 

[#GreenRoars]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ualval1=wickets;template=results;type=bowling

Best avg among spinners in Asia.Better than even the legendary Murali.

I got it.

 

[#GreenRoars]

For the last time Bilal7, Ashwin bowled on pitches where 400, 500 and 600 were being scored regularly. Would you honestly call them rank-turners or hard for batting?

Don't speak trollish plz, reply like a reasonable guy cuz I know you have that part hidden somewhere.

No body can wiin this Shah v Ashwin battle on the basis of this small sample (Test)

 

[Zak_Fan]

I already gave you the reasons for that and you still fail to acknowledge the truth. What were the averages of Swann, Ojha and Monty Panesar in that Inda vs England series?

24, 31 and 27 respectively. Does that prove something?

 

[Zak_Fan]

Does it matters, as some Indians are saying that Yasir would have been unsuccessful even on rank turners!

Then they are trolling.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No brother.

1st Test - West Indies 304 and 180; India 209 and 276/5

2nd Test - India 631/7d; West Indies 153 and 463

3rd Test - West Indies 590 and 134; India 482 and 242/9

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-west-indies-2011/engine/series/535995.html

No matter what the series, crazy runs have been scored in India and Ashwin still shone bright. Anyone who thinks that Ashwin's wickets in India were any easier is being biased.

2011 was batting friendly. When did I state otherwise? That's what I am saying.

 

[Zak_Fan]

No body can wiin this Shah v Ashwin battle on the basis of this small sample (Test)

Exactly, and that's why I am only contradicting post that call Yasir "easily better" in Tests. We need so much Cricket from them both in order to get anywhere near that conclusion.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I remember when teams were getting bowled out for 50 or so runs in south africa few years ago. Nobody complained back then. India have every right to prepare the pitches that suits them.

Ejactly.

 

[ali2220]

How many series have Yasir played ? i think 4 or 5, its very hard to label someone as the world's best on the basis of just 4 or 5 test series.

 

[IndianWillow]

This comparison will make any sense only after Yasir has played outside Asia. Australian tour will be his real test - the way the Kiwis got whipped on those roads suggest that Yasir will find the going tough. Even averaging 40 in Oz will be a big challenge for any Pakistan bowlers, including Yasir. I foresee only Wahab averaging sub 35 or sub 30 on that tour if Aussie pitches remain the same.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

[MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] - The simple point is that UAE is comparitively harder than India post 2011.

That's undeniable.

I stated all the series.

2011 WI - Batting friendly/normal
2012 NZ - Normal/spin friendly
2012 Eng - Spin friendly with occasional rank turners
2013 Aus - Spin friendly with occasional rank turners
2015 SA - Heavy duty spin friendly with rank turners

Ash has done well in SL and Bang plus even on non rank turners or batting friendlies in India pitches (except England 2012 fiasco). That's also undeniable.

What is the confusion here?

 

[Zak_Fan]

2011 was batting friendly. When did I state otherwise? That's what I am saying.

Oh, I thought you presented 2011 series as an example to back your statement from previous post.

But even 2013, India won both the matches by an innings and 100 runs I believe. So, can we call them rank-turners,...? I am not too sure bro.

 

[ali2220]

I remember when teams were getting bowled out for 50 or so runs in south africa few years ago. Nobody complained back then. India have every right to prepare the pitches that suits them.

People only complains when they come across rank turners in Sub continent, thats what i have seen throughout the history.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Oh, I thought you presented 2011 series as an example to back your statement from previous post.

But even 2013, India won both the matches by an innings and 100 runs I believe. So, can we call them rank-turners,...? I am not too sure bro.

I have been very vocal against calling everything rank turners.

These are rank turners in the last 4 years:

2012 Mumbai
2013 Delhi
2015 Nagpur

2015 Mohali - Its your call but pitch was hard to score but not spinning like it does in regular rank turners.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

People only complains when they come across rank turners in Sub continent, thats what i have seen throughout the history.

Ejactly.

 

[Zak_Fan]

[MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] - The simple point is that UAE is comparitively harder than India post 2011.

That's undeniable.

I stated all the series.

2011 WI - Batting friendly/normal
2012 NZ - Normal/spin friendly
2012 Eng - Spin friendly with occasional rank turners
2013 Aus - Spin friendly with occasional rank turners
2015 SA - Heavy duty spin friendly with rank turners

Ash has done well in SL and Bang plus even on non rank turners or batting friendlies in India pitches (except England 2012 fiasco). That's also undeniable.

What is the confusion here?

Basically this. This is the point I have been trying to make to counter some poster's point. Most of the surfaces he found success on have been spin friendly, but they were also good for batting (i.e. a typical subcontinental pitch).

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Ashwin and Yasir is a close contest in test with Yasir may be marginally ahead.

In ODIs its a no contest. Likes of R.Jadeja is better than him let alone Ashwin.

T20s the same.

So overall Ashwin is a better cricketer if you also conaider his batting and slip catching.

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[Ironcat]

Well, Yasir is ahead of Ashwin on pretty much every test metric today.

- Bowling average
- Wickets per match
- ICC player ranking
- And, for the LOI crowd, test bowling strike rate

And he is way ahead on these metrics compared to a 12-test Ashwin.

Sure, sample size is still small - but the trend is pretty darn obvious.

 

[ali2220]

Well, Yasir is ahead of Ashwin on pretty much every test metric today.

- Bowling average
- Wickets per match
- ICC player ranking
- And, for the LOI crowd, test bowling strike rate

And he is way ahead on these metrics compared to a 12-test Ashwin.

Sure, sample size is still small - but the trend is pretty darn obvious.

Believe me, it matters alot.Yasir has made a great start, and have a great future, thats all we can say for now.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

T20s the same.

In LOI's Ashwin > Yasir at the moment. Warne was the exception but not many leg spinners can achieve success in LOI's. You can count them on your finger tips.

 

[Acricketfan]

Did someone JUST SAY strike rates mean little in tests?

lol.

Depends whether you're defending Pakistani bowlers or bashing Indian bowlers.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I don't know why you're segmenting Bangalore from the other pitches, Indian pitches take far more spin in comparison to other Asian pitches, I don't see why that is such a difficult thing to acknowledge.

Bangladesh pitches are almost always pattas, Lankan pitches are sporting, UAE pitches are slow and only tend to take spin on the last couple of days.

Because Bangalore pitch doesn't support spin much. Spinners average higher here than any other ground. Seamers do much better.

 

[Ironcat]

Believe me, it matters alot.Yasir has made a great start, and have a great future, thats all we can say for now.

Yeah, but you don't get many brownie points for banging the table for AMZN once it has already hit $675.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Well, Yasir is ahead of Ashwin on pretty much every test metric today.

- Bowling average
- Wickets per match
- ICC player ranking
- And, for the LOI crowd, test bowling strike rate

And he is way ahead on these metrics compared to a 12-test Ashwin.

Sure, sample size is still small - but the trend is pretty darn obvious.

Small sample size + no exposure to testing conditions yet. No wonder stats will only make sense once his cycle of overseas tours is complete.

Pujara was next to Bradman after his first few Tests, but then England and Australia happened. So you never know.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Note-

This is not a Messi bs Ashwin thread. The thread is purely about who is the beat all round all formats all tournaments overall spinner in the world.

Mods please ensure thread does not get derailed from the actual point. There is a separate thread for Messi vs Ashwin in tests. Thanks hopefully wont have to issue another warning.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well, Yasir is ahead of Ashwin on pretty much every test metric today.

- Bowling average
- Wickets per match
- ICC player ranking
- And, for the LOI crowd, test bowling strike rate

And he is way ahead on these metrics compared to a 12-test Ashwin.

Sure, sample size is still small - but the trend is pretty darn obvious.

Why not compare their stats in Asia only then?Makes sense?

 

[Ironcat]

Small sample size + no exposure to testing conditions yet. No wonder stats will only make sense once his cycle of overseas tours is complete.

Pujara was next to Bradman after his first few Tests, but then England and Australia happened. So you never know.

So, what happens to this argument when you pull down the list putting a 30-test Aswin next to a 100-test Murali?

 

[Zak_Fan]

So, what happens to this argument when you pull down the list putting a 30-test Aswin next to a 100-test Murali?

Never seen anyone do that. If someone did it, I am sure replies in his thread would shut him up rather quickly.

 

[Ironcat]

Why not compare their stats in Asia only then?Makes sense?

Why? Just because it is Asia doesn't mean it's the same set of pitches, same opponent batsmen, same fielders, etc. I'm pretty sure somewhere somehow some metric will get skewed towards Ashwin if you categorize enough.

 

[Ironcat]

Never seen anyone do that. If someone did it, I am sure replies in his thread would shut him up rather quickly.

Scroll up to post 91.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Scroll up to post 91.

Now that is a comparison for stats in Asia. Ashwin has played enough Tests for it to be valid.

 

[Ironcat]

Now that is a comparison for stats in Asia. Ashwin has played enough Tests for it to be valid.

LOL.

That comparison puts Ashwin's 22 tests next to Murali's 97 tests. That's a 4.5 to 1 ratio and a 75-test difference.

Yasir vs Ashwin is a 2.5 to 1 ratio and an 18-test difference.

 

[Zak_Fan]

LOL.

That comparison puts Ashwin's 22 tests next to Murali's 97 tests. That's a 4.5 to 1 ratio and a 75-test difference.

Yasir vs Ashwin is a 2.5 to 1 ratio and an 18-test difference.

This is not about number of Tests or the ratio, but where those Tests were played. There is enough sample for this comparison to be valid in Asia.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Why not compare their stats in Asia only then?Makes sense?

Why not compare their stats in Asia only but equal number of matches?? Makes sense?

 

[Ironcat]

This is not about number of Tests or the ratio, but where those Tests were played. There is enough sample for this comparison to be valid in Asia.

You contradict yourself.

 

[Zak_Fan]

You contradict yourself.

It is not about number of Tests (overall). It is about number of Tests that fulfill a certain criteria (for example Tests in Asia).

Only reason Ashwin and Yasir's overall stats cannot be compared right now is because Yasir has only played in 3 countries, all of them in Asia. Once he is exposed to conditions in Eng/SA/Aus/NZ, then this comparison with Ashwin will also make sense.

 

[Ironcat]

It is not about number of Tests (overall). It is about number of Tests that fulfill a certain criteria (for example Tests in Asia).

Only reason Ashwin and Yasir's overall stats cannot be compared right now is because Yasir has only played in 3 countries, all of them in Asia. Once he is exposed to conditions in Eng/SA/Aus/NZ, then this comparison with Ashwin will also make sense.

That was one helluva goalpost shift.

Excluding the one-off tests in SA and BD, Ashwin has only played in 4 countries, one of which is England where he only played 2 tests.

Murali played at least 4 tests in all 10 countries.

 

[Zak_Fan]

That was one helluva goalpost shift.

Excluding the one-off tests in SA and BD, Ashwin has only played in 4 countries, one of which is England where he only played 2 tests.

Murali played at least 4 tests in all 10 countries.

Maybe this is the reason Joshila compared the stats in Asia and not rest of the world. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Besides, his post wasn't even a comparison between Murali and Ashwin, it simply highlighted the most successful spinners in Asian conditions.

 

[Ironcat]

Maybe this is the reason Joshila compared the stats in Asia and not rest of the world. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Besides, his post wasn't even a comparison between Murali and Ashwin, it simply highlighted the most successful spinners in Asian conditions.

Well, I already responded to the 'Asia' part previously - i.e. why compare a 22-test cycle with a 97-test career.

In any case, to the OP, if you are considering all three formats combined - then yes Ashwin is currently the best, but that might change just about as fast as the oil price next year.

 

[#GreenRoars]

So pitches were bad for batting yet 400, 500 and 600 scores were being scored regularly in every series?

Find some sense or don't bother replying Bilal bhai.

Did you check 4th innings scores or highest run chases??

 

[#GreenRoars]

It is not about number of Tests (overall). It is about number of Tests that fulfill a certain criteria (for example Tests in Asia).

Only reason Ashwin and Yasir's overall stats cannot be compared right now is because Yasir has only played in 3 countries, all of them in Asia. Once he is exposed to conditions in Eng/SA/Aus/NZ, then this comparison with Ashwin will also make sense.

Every sensible person is waiting for this.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Did you check 4th innings scores or highest run chases??

No, but I am guessing that anything above 275 would be safe.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I bet ashwin is hoping he can play all his test matches in asia as hes thriving in there conditions.

 

[Adil_94]

Another example where you are talking just for the sake of it.

1st Test Eng Vs India - India score 521/8, 80/1 .. England scored 406 in second inning.

2nd Test - India scored 327, 142, England scored 413, 58/0

3rd Test - England scored 523, India score 316, 247

4th Test - Both teams score 330+ all innings.

If you feel embarrassed about making false claims, please do not reply back.

Didn't Ashwin average 50 in that series with the ball.


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[Zak_Fan]

Didn't Ashwin average 50 in that series with the ball.


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He did. The point I was making is that 80% of the series Ashwin played in India had similar scores. Yes this current series has taken the home advantage over the top, but most of the times, the pitches have resulted in high scoring matches.

 

[Adil_94]

He did. The point I was making is that 80% of the series Ashwin played in India had similar scores. Yes this current series has taken the home advantage over the top, but most of the times, the pitches have resulted in high scoring matches.

Thing is these tracks are turners but the ineptness of spin playing ability also make them look worse. Like the greentops in the Ashes if the Aussie HTBs could play swing and seam they wouldnt have been bowled out for 50 or 60. Saffers have two players who are good at playing spin. Rest are duds literally rubbish vs spin. Amla is in horrendous form has been since the WC. and even bilaterals cant cure him out of the slump. And AB is AB a magnificent player but he is one player rest are duds. Like when Pak got bowled out for 40 odd in SA in 2013 that track helped seamers but wasnt an outrageous green bamba our bats just werent equipped to play seam or bounce.

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[cricketjoshila]

I got it.

Yasir Shah hasnt played a test out of Asia.

 

[ads101]

He's the best spinner in all formats by a country mile. He doesn't look too effective outside of asia in tests, but tbh don't know if other spinners would be either so unfair to use that to bring him down. And where he's needed he performs, I mean after all really the pacers should be the guys to take the wickets in places like Australia and South Africa, it's a bit harsh to expect the spinner to run through the side in unhelpful conditions.

 

[Abhilash93]

Was it a better performance than Yasir on them ? I don't think so.

Yes, in BD. Almost equal in SL (though India got a green track in 3rd Test there).

 

[Sidilicious]

This comparison is unfair on both players. Let Yasir play abroad before we can comment.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Thing is these tracks are turners but the ineptness of spin playing ability also make them look worse. Like the greentops in the Ashes if the Aussie HTBs could play swing and seam they wouldnt have been bowled out for 50 or 60. Saffers have two players who are good at playing spin. Rest are duds literally rubbish vs spin. Amla is in horrendous form has been since the WC. and even bilaterals cant cure him out of the slump. And AB is AB a magnificent player but he is one player rest are duds. Like when Pak got bowled out for 40 odd in SA in 2013 that track helped seamers but wasnt an outrageous green bamba our bats just werent equipped to play seam or bounce.

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I think both of us have missed each other's context there. I was referring to how 80% of the series Ashwin played in India have been high scoring affairs.

Apologies in case I am failing to see the connection here.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Yasir Shah hasnt played a test out of Asia.

Everyone is waiting for this.

 

[in_cutter]

Ashwin a bit of a home bully no?

 

[dandapinda]

The best.

 

[shaz619]

Ashwin is the Jesus of spin bowling

 

[Adil_94]

I think both of us have missed each other's context there. I was referring to how 80% of the series Ashwin played in India have been high scoring affairs.

Apologies in case I am failing to see the connection here.

I think both of us have missed each other's context there. I was referring to how 80% of the series Ashwin played in India have been high scoring affairs.

Apologies in case I am failing to see the connection here.

Loool yeah i think i went off on a different tangent. I havent watched india in home tests a lot tbh. But u can only judge a track if two teams are evenly matched. A track can be be a turner but if u have quality batsmen vs spin they can make it look easier. And if u have inept batsman they can make a good spinner look like Murali or Warne. Case in point Jadeja on spin tracks vs inept batsman aka Aussies in 2013 and this Saffa team he has looked like a world beater. Even if these were UAE style tracks slow turn phattas Ashwin would run through Saffas because he is very good and also this Saffa side is just very poor vs spin.

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[Thivagar]

No. If he doesn't do well oversees you can't consider him "best".

 

[IndianWillow]

No. If he doesn't do well oversees you can't consider him "best".

In the era of home bullies, some one has to be the best without doing well overseas.

 

[Haroon786]

Yes, in BD. Almost equal in SL (though India got a green track in 3rd Test there).

First Test of the Bangladesh series, Pakistan were given pitch that was flatter than Abu Dhabi, so the ball didn't spin there. However, in the second Test when the pitch offered little assistance, Yasir managed to make merry on the Bangladeshis.

 

[Haroon786]

In the era of home bullies, some one has to be the best without doing well overseas.

No.

If batsmen are judged by how they perform overseas then bowlers should be held to the same standard too.

 

[IndianWillow]

No.

If batsmen are judged by how they perform overseas then bowlers should be held to the same standard too.

Best means best among the current players, it does not mean an ATG. If no current players have great overseas records, then some one among the home bullies will be the best.

 

[Abhilash93]

First Test of the Bangladesh series, Pakistan were given pitch that was flatter than Abu Dhabi, so the ball didn't spin there. However, in the second Test when the pitch offered little assistance, Yasir managed to make merry on the Bangladeshis.

The pitch for the Test vs India was pretty flat as well.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Ashwin winning this debate so far.

Credit to OP for putting it straight.

 

[shortbread]

He's a smart cookie

[video]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/redirect.html?externalId=cric:56570070e4b0d21cf3bb 0f6b[/video]

 

[aslaisnomasla]

Better than shane warne

 

[Suleiman]

He doesn't have much competition. Ever since operation: chucker was launched by ICC his 2 biggest rivals Ajmal and Narine had to make a run for it, with Ajmal getting shot down and then heading into a tame finish of a career, while Narine went into hiding to save his own ass, but got reported anyway.

Right now in tests only Yasir and Lyon give him competition.

In odis / t20s he's the best spinner, but again, no other spinner is good enough to challenge him.

Also while I expect Ashwin to rule the roost next year as the best odi/t20 spinner as well, he may or may get overtaken by Yasir in tests depending on how he does overseas.

 

[Haroon786]

Best means best among the current players, it does not mean an ATG. If no current players have great overseas records, then some one among the home bullies will be the best.

Steyn = Best hence there is no argument.

 

[Haroon786]

The pitch for the Test vs India was pretty flat as well.

It probably took a bit of spin in comparison to Pakistan's.

 

[Bilal7]

Best means best among the current players, it does not mean an ATG. If no current players have great overseas records, then some one among the home bullies will be the best.

Being untested overseas is a better position to be in than being a failure overseas. Yasir Shah trumps Ashwin in every single category imaginable; be it overall average+SR, aesthetics, appreciation from experts and past players or the ICC rankings.

What is the basis for calling him the best? Only stats in Asia, despite the fact that he is playing on pitches that are much better for spinners to bowl on?