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[PICTURES/VIDEOS] The curious case of Babar Azam in Tests

S

Saj

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The numbers:

Matches 12
Innings 23
Runs 489
Average 23.28
Fifties 4
Hundreds 0

Yet he averages over 50 in both T20Is and ODIs.

He seems confused regarding his approach, whether to be aggressive or defensive. Some loose shots and a rather amateur approach to his batting in Test cricket.

What's going wrong?
 
The "experts" on here overrated him before he even made his debut. Go figure.
 
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I would drop him instantly. This is so sad that Fawad Alam could not make it into this team and Babar Azam has played 12 test matches with pathetic average of 25.
 
Number 5 is the right position for him. He needs to play his shots in tests. He has been given ample chances which is unusual for Pakistani players. I dare say had Waqar been the coach, Azam would have had zero chance of being selected for this tour. He is lucky to have a foreign coach at this point of time. Saad Ali deserves a go in his place.
 
I suspect It’s a mental thing and having Akmal blood in him does not bode well..
 
Not test material. 12 test is decent sample size. His first class stats aren't too great either. Should stick to LOIs.
 
Saj said:
The numbers:

Matches 12
Innings 23
Runs 489
Average 23.28
Fifties 4
Hundreds 0

Yet he averages over 50 in both T20Is and ODIs.

He seems confused regarding his approach, whether to be aggressive or defensive. Some loose shots and a rather amateur approach to his batting in Test cricket.

What's going wrong?
Click to expand...

what is his domestic FC average (without international test matches)? If its below 35 then Pakistan should drop him from test team.
 
Sometimes we must look past stats; Does Babar look like someone who can stand up to top bowlers and look them in the eye?
 
The argument that his poor record is due to having played several tough overseas tours is wearing thin - especially if you're failing against West Indies, Sri Lanka and a new Test team in Ireland.

His FC record doesn't inspire a lot of confidence either but the team management have given him a lot of backing which he hasn't repaid. Take your pick from Fawad Alam, Usman Salahuddin and Saad Ali to replace him.
 
His one day stats are nothing to boast about if you remove Sri Lanka and West Indies.
 
Deserved the axe a long time ago ,especially since the SL tests.No idea why he was picked for the UK tour.
 
He's been poor in the UAE as well which should be really easy runs. Apart from his one innings in NZ where he missed out on a hundred after being stranded he doesn't seem to be technically equipped to deal with steep bounce and spin.

In all fairness Pakistan's domestic does no favours when you're playing on sub-standard pitches at present the prodigies are never going to develop.

Pakistan back in the 70s, 80s and 90s could get away with it because so many batsmen back then were coached in England during county stints. Furthermore pitches in Pakistan were better for batting and they were up against better and faster bowlers to aid their transition into tests.
 
Ab Fan said:
I think he will surpass VK till he retires.
Click to expand...

Sarcasm? Or are you seeing something which others cant?

I will give him a few more test matches before dropping him. Pakistan needs all format players and he does have potential.
 
Always maintained that he needed a good 2 seasons in FC cricket before being handed a test cap.

It goes on to show that it is yet to be learned that he's not too sure of what he needs to go and do in Test cricket and has not simply got the numbers in FC either to show that either.

Before it starts getting worse the best would be is to keep him for limited formats and send him for county cricket and FC cricket in Pakistan.
 
blackanhyellow said:
He needs a longer rope.

Let him play next 4-5 series.
Click to expand...

Internation cricket is not there to get your form back. He and Azhar Ali should be dropped. They should play club cricket for a while to get their form back for the longer format to be reconsidered.
 
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Key here is just 12 matches.

Batsmen with high potential are given a Long rope and they come good. He's not a Fawad Alam type bat with zero potential.

Learn how parosis build batsmen.

Watch him after 40 Tests.
 
lonex said:
Internation cricket is not there to get your form back. He and Azhar Ali should be dropped. They should play club cricket for a while to get their form back for the longer format to be reconsidered.
Click to expand...

Babar never had any test form so this is not about him getting it back.

I am saying to give him a longer run, to see if he eventually adapts to the longer format. He has shown glimpses of his talent in LOIs, so the thought process is to give him enough time to show it in tests as well.
 
Hawkeye said:
Key here is just 12 matches.

Batsmen with high potential are given a Long rope and they come good. He's not a Fawad Alam type bat with zero potential.

Learn how parosis build batsmen.

Watch him after 40 Tests.
Click to expand...

This.

I can point to world class batsmen and even ATGs that didnt have the best start to their test careers.
 
blackanhyellow said:
Babar never had any test form so this is not about him getting it back.

I am saying to give him a longer run, to see if he eventually adapts to the longer format. He has shown glimpses of his talent in LOIs, so the thought process is to give him enough time to show it in tests as well.
Click to expand...

That is why I am sugggesting that he should develop/improve his game in local setup rather then International matches. There are deserving players who have been playing longer format with better average and strike rate. They should be now given a chance.

IMHO 12 matches is a good enough sample size to jude that he is not going anywhere.
 
Hawkeye said:
Key here is just 12 matches.

Batsmen with high potential are given a Long rope and they come good. He's not a Fawad Alam type bat with zero potential.

Learn how parosis build batsmen.

Watch him after 40 Tests.
Click to expand...

What if he doesnt score well after 40 ? Should we give him 60/80/100 ?

If he is having trouble against Westindies, Sirilanka and now debuting Ireland. What else do you want to know that he is not a test material as of now.

This was the same logic why we have TTF survived that long in Misbah's era. When new players were given chance they were there to grab it with both hands. He is struggling in tests and deserving players are not selected just because he is good in LOI.
 
lonex said:
What if he doesnt score well after 40 ? Should we give him 60/80/100 ?

If he is having trouble against Westindies, Sirilanka and now debuting Ireland. What else do you want to know that he is not a test material as of now.

This was the same logic why we have TTF survived that long in Misbah's era. When new players were given chance they were there to grab it with both hands. He is struggling in tests and deserving players are not selected just because he is good in LOI.
Click to expand...

Lol TTF?

Do you have any idea who you're talking about?

World's number 1 ranked T20 batsman.

World's top 5 ranked ODI batsman.

Your lack of logic and evidence does not negate the fact that he needs to be given a long rope in Tests too. With all the ingredients of an excellent batsman, they only need to be polished in the middle.
 
Hawkeye said:
Lol TTF?

Do you have any idea who you're talking about?

World's number 1 ranked T20 batsman.

World's top 5 ranked ODI batsman.

Your lack of logic and evidence does not negate the fact that he needs to be given a long rope in Tests too. With all the ingredients of an excellent batsman, they only need to be polished in the middle.
Click to expand...

Again comparing different formats. I am not challenging his selection in LOI. He should be presisted there

However, his test form has been poor, and I am suggesting him to go back and learn how to play longer formats.

There could be 100 reasons why he is failing, and he should figure them out with coaches in club cricket not in International matches.
 
talent without results cannot be persisted forever. Its senseless. Give others also some chance.
 
He seems to have come to the UK with the right approach and that is to put the bad balls away but at times playing too many shots ... they can't keep playing him though since he continues to fail ... Usman or Saad should get a go against England.
 
Another way to say this is, Can Salahuddin or Saad Ali play ahead of Babar Azam?
 
Hawkeye said:
Key here is just 12 matches.

Batsmen with high potential are given a Long rope and they come good. He's not a Fawad Alam type bat with zero potential.

Learn how parosis build batsmen.

Watch him after 40 Tests.
Click to expand...

Sorry but this team can't afford a 23 avg. specialist batsman for 40 tests ... that is ridiculous and unfair to Usman and Saad who can easily replace him.
 
It's not curious at all batsmen that do well in all formats are country greats and potential all time greats they are hard to find and uncommon Babar probably wasn't ready for tests but was played based on his Limited over exploits it's backfired so far.
 
babajee said:
Let’s wait till the end of the tour before giving him the axe.
Click to expand...

Yes and if he fails,he deserves to be dropped.

This isn't someones gully aur mohallay ki team.No one is entitled to a spot,or a lobg rope.Babar has had enough chances.
 
The thing with Babar is that is supposed to be our "Kohli" or "Root" or "Smith" as in our well rounded, top order, 3 format batsman so he is obviously being pushed by selectors in tests because he definitely has definitely has the potential to be a similar mould as those players.
 
Hawkeye said:
Key here is just 12 matches.

Batsmen with high potential are given a Long rope and they come good. He's not a Fawad Alam type bat with zero potential.

Learn how parosis build batsmen.

Watch him after 40 Tests.
Click to expand...

40 tests is way too much. probably his test fortunes should be decided by the end of SA tour
 
He isn't going to learn anything from playing in QEA because he won't bat for long enough period to learn about test cricket batting. He needs to play test cricket.

I don't see many batsmen better than him in Pakistan. Its better to stick with him than drop him to QEA . He should be kept with the test squad if think tank wants to drop him.
 
Some people look too much into his ODI/T20 statistics. Most of his runs have come on flat tracks or against mediocre attacks.

I fear he's just another flat track bully like Hafeez (obviously a much better version).
 
People overhyping him for a few centuries he scored against average attacks. I have been saying this since I joined this site. I don’t see anything special with his batting. He is more like Mo Hafeez. Once he starts playing against top teams in ODI and T 20 his average will go down as well.
 
PakSarZameen said:
Some people look too much into his ODI/T20 statistics. Most of his runs have come on flat tracks or against mediocre attacks.

I fear he's just another flat track bully like Hafeez (obviously a much better version).
Click to expand...

Wow. I didn’t read this before typing my other post. Exactly my thoughts.
 
PakSarZameen said:
Some people look too much into his ODI/T20 statistics. Most of his runs have come on flat tracks or against mediocre attacks.

I fear he's just another flat track bully like Hafeez (obviously a much better version).
Click to expand...

95% of Limited Overs tracks are flat. That’s not a problem.

We need more and more FTBs - Hafeez isn’t a FTB.
 
His career is so far is a resemblance of the one of James Vince. Very similar test averages and test caps and both very talented. So far both are struggling and we are still waiting for one of them to reach that maiden ton.
 
Seems to get starts and then throw it away with a poor or thoughtless shot.
 
boomboom6 said:
Sorry but this team can't afford a 23 avg. specialist batsman for 40 tests ... that is ridiculous and unfair to Usman and Saad who can easily replace him.
Click to expand...
On what basis will Usman and Saad easily replace Babar? Neither have even made their debuts yet.

The support for Fawad is getting lame now. Yes he has been hard done by, but tbh his career would have ended had he toured Ireland/England. Decent option for Asian tracks, but a walking wicket in conditions abroad. I think people forget how Bond bullied him back in 2010 on hard NZ wickets. Fawad has always lost his place in the side owing to how bad he looks when it goes wrong for him.
 
Hamad_H said:
The thing with Babar is that is supposed to be our "Kohli" or "Root" or "Smith" as in our well rounded, top order, 3 format batsman so he is obviously being pushed by selectors in tests because he definitely has definitely has the potential to be a similar mould as those players.
Click to expand...

To be honest, Babar is nowhere near those mentioned player neither ability wise nor performance wise, specially in test arena. He could be someone like Yuvi, Lois specialist and should focus on his Loi game and try to add another gear to his batting, specially while chasing 300+.
 
Lacks the technique to survive in tests.

Isn't putting in the hard yards necessary to succeed either by playing exhibition T20 comps like the PSL in his off season.

His lack of footwork early on has been brutally exposed against spin and seam.
 
same case as Rohit, Yuvraj etc. Duminy is another one that comes to mind.. i guess its just mental approach.. a good mentor can sort this out for him.. Coaches are unable to tackle this issue for him
 
25 tests is most you can give him coz of that potential tag but he’s fast losing time and every innings will be scrutinized more and there will be immense pressure

Personally I feel he’s from the crop of players who do great in LOIs and flop in tests. I don’t see him having a successful test career because he is technically deficient and mentally fragile
 
nam said:
same case as Rohit, Yuvraj etc. Duminy is another one that comes to mind.. i guess its just mental approach.. a good mentor can sort this out for him.. Coaches are unable to tackle this issue for him
Click to expand...

It’s not approach some players are just suited to LOI formats and others to test. There have always been such players and always will be. Diminy and Yuvii weren’t good enough for tests and Babar seems to be the same
 
Raf Pragmatic said:
He needs more time to settle. I would give him another 24 tests.
Click to expand...

We play 7-8 tests a year

We can’t afford to give him 3 years if he doesn’t show improvement

After SA series he should make way for others if he has nothing to show. I am not talking about stats, I am talking about showing guts which is essential to succeed in tests
 
aloo paratha said:
Point to one then.
Click to expand...

Kallis averaged something like 25 in his first 15 or 16 test matches.

Laxman averages something like 24 in his first 15 or 16 matches.

These were just world class batsmen.

Even ATGs for example Sobers only averaged like 34 in his first 15 or so matches.

Not every batsmen comes out hitting double hundreds right away. Some like Kallis took a while adjusting to his role in the team, and then took off.

Not saying Babar should be given an unlimited leash. But he has shown maturity and a willingness to bat for long periods in his ODI career. Lets give him a chance to transfer those skills to tests.

But to be clear, I do not want to give him younis khan treatment, where everyone knew he was a ttf in ODIs but still ended up somehow playing 265 ODI matches. Just a few more series.
 
blackanhyellow said:
Kallis averaged something like 25 in his first 15 or 16 test matches.

Laxman averages something like 24 in his first 15 or 16 matches.

These were just world class batsmen.

Even ATGs for example Sobers only averaged like 34 in his first 15 or so matches.

Not every batsmen comes out hitting double hundreds right away. Some like Kallis took a while adjusting to his role in the team, and then took off.

Not saying Babar should be given an unlimited leash. But he has shown maturity and a willingness to bat for long periods in his ODI career. Lets give him a chance to transfer those skills to tests.

But to be clear, I do not want to give him younis khan treatment, where everyone knew he was a ttf in ODIs but still ended up somehow playing 265 ODI matches. Just a few more series.
Click to expand...

Sobers was picked on potential given his all round versatility. WI had Kanhai and 3 W's to carry his batting and ramadhin+valentine+Gilchrist to carry his bowling and give him time to develop

Kallis was groomed at no.3 in a side that had McMillan+Pollock+Richardson+Klusener+Symcox at #6-10. He also bowled useful change overs. They could afford to let him fail and by his 7th test he had scored a 100 at MCG in 4rth inns against McWarne

VVS batted out of place as an opener in his first stint in Tests. After that he was dropped, went back to domestic and scored 1415 runs in a 10 match season, came back as middle order bat in Aus and never looked back.

Babar hasn't shown any glimpses of being able to construct a Test inns, he has no second string to his bow and his team can ill afford a passenger given their collective inexperience. How long a rope can he be given??
 
nam said:
same case as Rohit, Yuvraj etc. Duminy is another one that comes to mind.. i guess its just mental approach.. a good mentor can sort this out for him.. Coaches are unable to tackle this issue for him
Click to expand...
Rohit and Yuvraj didn't have the technique survive at Test level.
 
blackanhyellow said:
Kallis averaged something like 25 in his first 15 or 16 test matches.

Laxman averages something like 24 in his first 15 or 16 matches.

These were just world class batsmen.

Even ATGs for example Sobers only averaged like 34 in his first 15 or so matches.

Not every batsmen comes out hitting double hundreds right away. Some like Kallis took a while adjusting to his role in the team, and then took off.

Not saying Babar should be given an unlimited leash. But he has shown maturity and a willingness to bat for long periods in his ODI career. Lets give him a chance to transfer those skills to tests.

But to be clear, I do not want to give him younis khan treatment, where everyone knew he was a ttf in ODIs but still ended up somehow playing 265 ODI matches. Just a few more series.
Click to expand...

Batting long on current ODI roads doesn't mean that you can do the same in Tests where horizontal movement comes into picture. Rohit Sharma is the best example for that.
 
Extremely overrated player.

Playing just because Mickey loves "Bobsy" and Inzi is hell-bent upon given youngsters chances over more established domestic performers.

Has been extremely poor in T20s as well, except a few against nothing bowling attacks of depleted Sri Lanka and World x1. His CPL and PSL returns also showcase how limited he's as a batsman.

Lost us 2,3 crucial matches against Australia due to tuktuking.

Has become popular only based on a few centuries against Windies on flat tracks. Will be found out sooner by bigger teams
 
Does he have the potential to become a very good test player?
Yes

He hasn’t performed upto his potential yet other than that really good 90 odd runs innings against NZ on green top in NZ.
This series is the one where he needs to make an impact which can be handy in Pak’s win. If it doesnt happen than he needs to be dropped and Usman should take is place.
 
KyoOne said:
Extremely overrated player.

Playing just because Mickey loves "Bobsy" and Inzi is hell-bent upon given youngsters chances over more established domestic performers.

Has been extremely poor in T20s as well, except a few against nothing bowling attacks of depleted Sri Lanka and World x1. His CPL and PSL returns also showcase how limited he's as a batsman.

Lost us 2,3 crucial matches against Australia due to tuktuking.

Has become popular only based on a few centuries against Windies on flat tracks. Will be found out sooner by bigger teams
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention him being the top scorer in NZ T20s. If you would have said it, it would have automatically weakened your claims so good decision to not mention it.
 
pratiktc said:
Sobers was picked on potential given his all round versatility. WI had Kanhai and 3 W's to carry his batting and ramadhin+valentine+Gilchrist to carry his bowling and give him time to develop

Kallis was groomed at no.3 in a side that had McMillan+Pollock+Richardson+Klusener+Symcox at #6-10. He also bowled useful change overs. They could afford to let him fail and by his 7th test he had scored a 100 at MCG in 4rth inns against McWarne

VVS batted out of place as an opener in his first stint in Tests. After that he was dropped, went back to domestic and scored 1415 runs in a 10 match season, came back as middle order bat in Aus and never looked back.

Babar hasn't shown any glimpses of being able to construct a Test inns, he has no second string to his bow and his team can ill afford a passenger given their collective inexperience. How long a rope can he be given??
Click to expand...

He has a 90 not out against NZ in NZ, in an innings where all other Pak batsmen failed.

Also has a few 50s.

So he has shown glimpses. The issue here is that he has only shown glimpses. Need to explore a bit more.
 
Titan24 said:
You forgot to mention him being the top scorer in NZ T20s. If you would have said it, it would have automatically weakened your claims so good decision to not mention it.
Click to expand...

Just checked, only one score on the New Zealand tour was significant, a fifty at a decent click. Further, actually he was also a failure against Sri Lankan "B" team as well in their last series.

Has done well against exhibition team of world x1 and West Indies "B" team on Pakistan tours, and just one other notable performance in a career of 20 matches. Not world-shattering by any measure.

My point still stands, he's an overrated player who plays just because he's in good books of people who matter. Has no place in tests and t20 sides.
 
He doesn’t know how to slice and cut the ball. He must learn the techniques of the red ball
 
kohli failed in his first go at test and was rightly dropped. Don't thing Babur is so extreme a talent that its worth carrying him at avg 25.
 
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Needs to be dropped from the test team for a while so that he can work on the weaknesses. Now goes with a lot of pressure and hence fails even more. Just not good enough as of now for test level and has glaring weaknesses which he tries to compensate and fails.

Nothing wrong to be dropped so that you can work on your game without that much scrutiny and pressure.
 
How successful was Kohli early on in his career, that too in english conditions?
By no means of the stretch of the imagination am i comparing them but, give the guy some time.... he played really well in england in 2016 prior to all of his hype..... Not a major fan of him walking of scoring 14 but lets give him a chance, I believe he's just lacking that one big score
 
KyoOne said:
Just checked, only one score on the New Zealand tour was significant, a fifty at a decent click. Further, actually he was also a failure against Sri Lankan "B" team as well in their last series.

Has done well against exhibition team of world x1 and West Indies "B" team on Pakistan tours, and just one other notable performance in a career of 20 matches. Not world-shattering by any measure.

My point still stands, he's an overrated player who plays just because he's in good books of people who matter. Has no place in tests and t20 sides.
Click to expand...

The lad is one of the highest scorers in recent Pakistan T20 cricket, agree on the test format but come on the guy has major scores in T20I
 
He is very low on confidence in Test cricket, and pitching him up against Anderson right now is lamb to slaughter type situation.

I really hope he can come out of this stronger and does not mentally disintegrate. A big score against England, unlikely as it may seem, will do a world of good for his Test career moving forward.
 
JattMaula said:
kholae failed in his first go at test and was rightly dropped. Don't thing Babur is so extreme a talent that its worth carrying him at avg 25.
Click to expand...

Disagree with hajmola here. Babbar needs to be given a longer rope. Kohli went on to become India's captain after initial failures. We don't know whether Babbar will come good or not, but he should be backed for now for his solid International performances in the other formats.
 
Mamoon said:
He is very low on confidence in Test cricket, and pitching him up against Anderson right now is lamb to slaughter type situation.

I really hope he can come out of this stronger and does not mentally disintegrate. A big score against England, unlikely as it may seem, will do a world of good for his Test career moving forward.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately his defensive technique is not up to a test standard batsman also Akmal genetics means he is not a good learner his test career is done and dusted get Usman or Saad in his place from the next test
 
Needs to stay in and around the test team for the next couple of years Maybe not playing all the time but needs to be given a opportunity where possible

Im sure he will work out a method to be a long term success
 
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