PML-N’s Ayaz Sadiq issues clarification regarding his remarks about Indian pilot [post#153]

[M_kor]

LOL this is what happens when you rely on Wikipedia


India entered Pakistan airspace on 26th Feb 2019 and "bombed" one location where they killed a couple of trees and a crow.

On the next day, 27th February 2019, Pakistan entered Indian airspace and "bombed" four locations near military installations. While Pakistani jets were returning to Pakistani airspace they were engaged by Indian jets, one SU-30 was shot down in Indian airspace. The MIG-21 being flown by Abhinandan was completely jammed and he did not know he had entered Pakistani airspace, as soon as he entered he was engaged and shot down. In the heat of the moment, India panicked and also shot down their own helicopter that was flying inorder to rescue the downed pilots.



Next time educate yourself, unless you like being shown your auqaat.

Bhaii aap Kyun itna Likh rahay ho , bolney tho ..moo keh fire hein ye saaray ..bass thidha wait karo apnay student aka Taliban Zara Afghanistan mein faaarigh hojaaayein phirr iss mighty Indian ko deikhna ..these guys don't even have the tennis balls to land in Afghanistan and fight for their so called brothers ..

 

[cricketjoshila]

Like I said, this is the Indian narrative and they are free to believe it.

As you believe the Pakistani narrative.

 

[ahsan17]

As you believe the Pakistani narrative.

I don't think you should believe the Pakistani narrative either. Imran Khan in a public statement said two pilots were captured. That matches the Indian narrative. Later on, it was suppressed. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Can't trust the rhetoric blindly

The evidence available (evidence that is not open for interpretation) supports Pakistani narrative far more than Indian narrative. The neutral observers, heck even neutral observers that traditionally like India far more (e.g. Christine Fair) have said this much already.

There are holes in both narratives, but the only hole in the Pakistani narrative is about the second pilot. As far as the Indian narrative is concerned, there isn't even something to stand on. That's how many holes it has.

 

[chinaman00]

Nuclear weapons were available during Kargil as well. I dont think it's that easy as you claim. Pakistan has agreed that India encroached their airspace. That was actually a threshold for nuclear war as per earlier claims. Yes, you embarrassed India with the pilot capture but at that time Pakistan's economy was in shambles and they couldn't afford a war irrespective of the scale. There was no miscalculation on either side. Modi did what nobody thought could be done and he won the election just because of that. As far as India is concerned, they achieved their objectives. Pak was embarrassed that Indian jets entered their space and bombed. They did the same later and returned the pilot thereby giving them the moral victory. This made the people happy as they forgot about the encroachment. Both sides won and it was very calculative. The nuclear threshold policy though was debunked.

This ignores one big fact: Pakistan also breached Indian air space and unlike the Indians, actually hit its targets. I mean, there are videos from the cockpit on YouTube one can watch of the Pakistani ground strikes.

Talking of downed helicopters, it’s actually India which panicked and shot down its own helicopter! India initiated a crisis but it was Pakistan that dominated the escalation ladder. All experts agree the Indian airstrikes were a failure. I mean EVERY credible expert. By contrast, even if one disputes the SU-30 claim, what’s undisputed is the following:

1. PAF breach of Indian airspace the next day
2. Downing of Abhinandan and his Mig-21
3. Ground strikes by PAF on Indian targets.
4. Downing of Indian helicopter by panicked Indian military which led to the deaths of 7 people, mostly military personnel.

This was not a stalemate. India’s bluff was called and it failed to respond, despite the loss of materials and men. I think the New York Times used the word “humiliating” to describe the drubbing India got lol

 

[Syed1]

There are no holes in Pakistan's story. The second pilot saga emerged because two independent army teams arrived at the location where Abhinandan had ejected, both reported a pilot independently to their command and in the heat of the moment it was thought they were talking about two different pilots. Eventually it turned out they were talking about the same person. This has been clarified multiple times.


In the heat of the moment India can shoot down their own heli killing a dozen but we cannot even have a minor miscommunication.


As for the SU-30, it engaged the intruding PAF strike package and was duly dispatched to hell by a Pakistan F-16 flown by Hasan Siddiqui. Three different Pakistani jets caught the blip of the SU-30 go off the radar. PAF did a whole documentary style presentation on the events of that day last year. You can chose to believe it or not. If PAF wanted to make things up they could have easily also claimed the kill of the helicopter as their doing.

 

[El Generico]

There are no holes in Pakistan's story. The second pilot saga emerged because two independent army teams arrived at the location where Abhinandan had ejected, both reported a pilot independently to their command and in the heat of the moment it was thought they were talking about two different pilots. Eventually it turned out they were talking about the same person. This has been clarified multiple times.


In the heat of the moment India can shoot down their own heli killing a dozen but we cannot even have a minor miscommunication.

ng.

Lol yeah India can kill a dozen of their own men in panic but Pakistan isn’t even allowed to make a simple mistake in the fog of war. I guess that shows how highly they think of the Pakistani army.

 

[rhony]

This ignores one big fact: Pakistan also breached Indian air space and unlike the Indians, actually hit its targets. I mean, there are videos from the cockpit on YouTube one can watch of the Pakistani ground strikes.

Talking of downed helicopters, it’s actually India which panicked and shot down its own helicopter! India initiated a crisis but it was Pakistan that dominated the escalation ladder. All experts agree the Indian airstrikes were a failure. I mean EVERY credible expert. By contrast, even if one disputes the SU-30 claim, what’s undisputed is the following:

1. PAF breach of Indian airspace the next day
2. Downing of Abhinandan and his Mig-21
3. Ground strikes by PAF on Indian targets.
4. Downing of Indian helicopter by panicked Indian military which led to the deaths of 7 people, mostly military personnel.

This was not a stalemate. India’s bluff was called and it failed to respond, despite the loss of materials and men. I think the New York Times used the word “humiliating” to describe the drubbing India got lol

Again it depends on how much you believe that India hasn't hit the targets. There were reports in dawn that locals.claimed dead bodies being carried and nobody was allowed to visit the area for a few days.

Pak can claim moral victory with the downed pilot but one can't ignore the fact that India entered Pak's airspace and called the nuclear bluff. I think that emboldened India to go further and proceed with the Kashmir UT status. Pak always claimed Kashmir and breaching it's fences are nuclear flashpoints. Apparently not.

 

[Slog]

Again it depends on how much you believe that India hasn't hit the targets. There were reports in dawn that locals.claimed dead bodies being carried and nobody was allowed to visit the area for a few days.

There was no such report. Please stop making up fake news. I would like you to link them. In fact Hamid Mir was there a few days later and interviewed locals who mentioned of planes but of no attacks. For a moment let’s say Hamid Mir did paid propaganda (Eventhough he has always been anti army and anti establishment); even then there are too many holes in the indian narrative.

And it is not just Pakistan which says that the target was missed. Independent, third party analysts have also said that.

India also manufactured some ‘300 dead’ number which was never backed up. Bodies cannot just disappear because if that was the case pakistan intelligence would done those for drone strikes (which they silently agreed to) all those years ago.

What we know is this. India entered Pakistan airspace. Pakistan was alerted and came into action. India in retreat dropped the payload in a forest areas and hence the dead trees

 

[Slog]

Despite their F-16 fake news and ‘300 dead terrorists’ story being debunked so many times not just by Pakistan but foreign analysts who have always been pro Indian and deeply anti pakistan (for example Christine Fair) I’m shocked how Indians shamelessly still try to make themselves believe their official line lol. And obv it is know they are gullible to whatever modi says. I guess this is what Pakistanis were like in 1971 when they believed their leaders that the army was winning in East pakistan.

 

[Abdullah719]

Again it depends on how much you believe that India hasn’t hit the targets. There were reports in dawn that locals.claimed dead bodies being carried and nobody was allowed to visit the area for a few days.

Really

 

[Slog]

Really

Maybe he reads faking news...

 

[rhony]

Really

Are you really that surprised? Didn't they deny Kasab was a Pakistani until some journalist spoke to his parents?

 

[Slog]

Really

Reuter’s: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QH298

Anyways. This topic has been discussed to death anyone with credibility knows what happened. If some Indians prefer to have head in the sand good luck to them lol. But keeping your head in the sand about everything doesn’t help in the long run. You end up with 120k+ dead with diseases like corona.

 

[Pakpak]

Despite their F-16 fake news and ‘300 dead terrorists’ story being debunked so many times not just by Pakistan but foreign analysts who have always been pro Indian and deeply anti pakistan (for example Christine Fair) I’m shocked how Indians shamelessly still try to make themselves believe their official line lol. And obv it is know they are gullible to whatever modi says. I guess this is what Pakistanis were like in 1971 when they believed their leaders that the army was winning in East pakistan.

Pretty much but it also shows how much lying the Indians have done. And now I refuse to believe anything I read from them from Kargil to this.

 

[Abdullah719]

Are you really that surprised? Didn’t they deny Kasab was a Pakistani until some journalist spoke to his parents?

The really was an expression of skepticism, not surprise.

If Dawn reported that, it’s big. I’m sure you have a link or some evidence.

 

[rhony]

There was no such report. Please stop making up fake news. I would like you to link them. In fact Hamid Mir was there a few days later and interviewed locals who mentioned of planes but of no attacks. For a moment let’s say Hamid Mir did paid propaganda (Eventhough he has always been anti army and anti establishment); even then there are too many holes in the indian narrative.

And it is not just Pakistan which says that the target was missed. Independent, third party analysts have also said that.

India also manufactured some ‘300 dead’ number which was never backed up. Bodies cannot just disappear because if that was the case pakistan intelligence would done those for drone strikes (which they silently agreed to) all those years ago.

What we know is this. India entered Pakistan airspace. Pakistan was alerted and came into action. India in retreat dropped the payload in a forest areas and hence the dead trees

300 is probably a fake number. There is absolutely no reason to hide the location from foreign journalists until April though and there were restrictions on top of it. Al Jazeera was invited in Feb but we all know about them don't we. I will search for the article that I was referring to while you can read how suspicious Pak army's actions were in this BBC report.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-47882354

I'm really surprised how you lot believe blindly what any army says let alone Pak army with the checkered history of Bin laden etc. There's always propaganda and one-upmanship. Truth is somewhere in the middle. My guess is 30 to 50 dead terrorists in the bombing. It's actually good for Pak too.

 

[Thomaskutty]

I guess this is what Pakistanis were like in 1971 when they believed their leaders that the army was winning in East pakistan.

Regarding Balakot, keep aside the question of whether targets were hit or not. Why was the area was closed off to reporters for 45 days despite repeated requests from Reuters. Any thoughts on that ? That has not piqued your curiosity at all?

 

[chinaman00]

Again it depends on how much you believe that India hasn't hit the targets. There were reports in dawn that locals.claimed dead bodies being carried and nobody was allowed to visit the area for a few days.

Pak can claim moral victory with the downed pilot but one can't ignore the fact that India entered Pak's airspace and called the nuclear bluff. I think that emboldened India to go further and proceed with the Kashmir UT status. Pak always claimed Kashmir and breaching it's fences are nuclear flashpoints. Apparently not.

That’s a bold-faced lie. Literally no journalist nor any credible expert has reported of any dead bodies from the IAF botched strikes. Neutral experts from Australia to the United States categorically established that IAF caused no damage.

IAF breached Pakistan airspace. Pakistan responded and imposed a cost on India. India failed to respond. No new norm was created and Pakistan dominated the escalation ladder by forcing India to back off, even after it suffered uncontested human and material damage. Indians can sooth themselves with this weird “bluff” charade. But the rest of the world knows that the only bluff called was India’s. Heck even the anti Pakistan publication The Economist called India a “paper elephant” following the encounter with Pakistan. The NYT was even more brutal:

“ After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its Military"

But sure, let’s talk about some imaginary india calling Pakistan’s bluff lol

 

[Bewal Express]

Regarding Balakot, keep aside the question of whether targets were hit or not. Why was the area was closed off to reporters for 45 days despite repeated requests from Reuters. Any thoughts on that ? That has not piqued your curiosity at all?

You still haven't gotten over it have you. I suppose when you spend 9 times more than an enemy country then you should expect to at least break even.

 

[rhony]

That’s a bold-faced lie. Literally no journalist nor any credible expert has reported of any dead bodies from the IAF botched strikes. Neutral experts from Australia to the United States categorically established that IAF caused no damage.

IAF breached Pakistan airspace. Pakistan responded and imposed a cost on India. India failed to respond. No new norm was created and Pakistan dominated the escalation ladder by forcing India to back off, even after it suffered uncontested human and material damage. Indians can sooth themselves with this weird “bluff” charade. But the rest of the world knows that the only bluff called was India’s. Heck even the anti Pakistan publication The Economist called India a “paper elephant” following the encounter with Pakistan. The NYT was even more brutal:

“ After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its Military"

But sure, let’s talk about some imaginary india calling Pakistan’s bluff lol

We were all lied about a lot of stuff. You were lied that Bin Laden isn't in Pak by Musharraf. We were lied that 300 people were killed in Balakot. That's what they do. It's called propaganda. You were lied that Pak will blow India into pieces with nuclear weapons if India ever bombed inside Pak. That was the statement when some RSS goons wanted to do the same after Bin Laden raid. You were lied that India hit some trees. Don't believe everything blindly. As there is only partial truth to propaganda.

 

[chinaman00]

The rest of the world has established and accepted that the IAF airstrike was a failure. Indian can concoct their lies and peddle their world-renowned fake news; but at least Pakistan’s narrative has been accepted as authentic. Why didn’t India not take its journalists to locations bombed by Pakistan? Why has it not found the black box from the downed helicopter? Why did its multi-billion air defense systems fail to deter Pakistan? Why were it’s SU-30s running from the battlefield, as claimed officially by India? Why was Abhinandan deserted by his wingman?

And Indians have the gall to question others. Delusional doesn’t even begin to cover it.

Satellite images show buildings still standing at Indian bombing site

NEW DELHI/SINGAPORE (Reuters) - High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters show that a religious school run by Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) in northeastern Pakistan appears to be still standing days after India claimed its warplanes had hit the Islamist group’s training camp on the site and killed a large number of militants.

An image casts doubt on India airstrike claims

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-pakistan-airstrike-insi-idUSKCN1QN00V

 

[chinaman00]

We were all lied about a lot of stuff. You were lied that Bin Laden isn't in Pak by Musharraf. We were lied that 300 people were killed in Balakot. That's what they do. It's called propaganda. You were lied that Pak will blow India into pieces with nuclear weapons if India ever bombed inside Pak. That was the statement when some RSS goons wanted to do the same after Bin Laden raid. You were lied that India hit some trees. Don't believe everything blindly. As there is only partial truth to propaganda.

Where did Pakistan say that nuclear weapons will be employed in the event of India attacking Pakistan? That’s just insane claim.

Literally no one has died at Balakot. The entire world accepts this basic fact. And you talk about being lied to when you continue to perpetuate a lie that’s been debunked more times than anyone can count.

 

[Thomaskutty]

You still haven't gotten over it have you. I suppose when you spend 9 times more than an enemy country then you should expect to at least break even.

I have gotten over it and maybe I even agree with your version, who knows. But please answer the question. What do you think happended in those 45 days that the area was cordoned off ?

 

[Thomaskutty]

You still haven't gotten over it have you. I suppose when you spend 9 times more than an enemy country then you should expect to at least break even.

I have gotten over it and maybe I even agree with your version, who knows. But please answer the question. What do you think happended in those 45 days that the area was cordoned off ?

 

[Slog]

Regarding Balakot, keep aside the question of whether targets were hit or not. Why was the area was closed off to reporters for 45 days despite repeated requests from Reuters. Any thoughts on that ? That has not piqued your curiosity at all?

Local journalists did go. And then it was sealed off. What is true is India entered territory and naturally an investigation was carried out and the area was closed. There is no need to allow foreign journalists btw just cause they ask to. India routinely denies foreign journalists from entering the Kashmir area it administers or even the north east areas btw.

My trust isn’t in the Pakistani narrative here anyway. It’s with the litany of international (and some openly anti pak state) analysts and think thanks who also go with a narrative closer to what the pak narrative is? Do you think Pakistan paid off every foreign think thank and agency which had an opinion to this to make them tow their line? Do you believe pakistan hacked into Sattelite Imagery softwares in order to ensure that these sattelite catch no damage in the area?

 

[ahsan17]

I have gotten over it and maybe I even agree with your version, who knows. But please answer the question. What do you think happended in those 45 days that the area was cordoned off ?

What is your theory? The satellite images show the compound wasn't touched, so you have to come up with an alternative theory. Christine Fair mentioned her theory when she came to India. You can check it out on YouTube.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Local journalists did go. And then it was sealed off.

No independent reporter was allowed. No one.

My trust isn’t in the Pakistani narrative here anyway. It’s with the litany of international (and some openly anti pak state) analysts and think thanks who also go with a narrative closer to what the pak narrative is? Do you think Pakistan paid off every foreign think thank and agency which had an opinion to this to make them tow their line? Do you believe pakistan hacked into Sattelite Imagery softwares in order to ensure that these sattelite catch no damage in the area?

I am not quibbling with you. My only point of contention is the 45 day period. Maybe no one died but at the very least, you should accept that the area in question was a hotspot for terrorists and the army wanted to clear them out and anything incriminating before giving access to foriegn press. Do you agree that this is the most likely explanation?

 

[Thomaskutty]

What is your theory? The satellite images show the compound wasn't touched, so you have to come up with an alternative theory.

My theory is that the army had to clear out their live terror assets and material from the area before opening it to press and it took 45 days to do so. Makes sense, no?

 

[Bewal Express]

My theory is that the army had to clear out their live terror assets and material from the area before opening it to press and it took 45 days to do so. Makes sense, no?

So you want to hide something and it took 45 days to clear it

 

[Bewal Express]

I have gotten over it and maybe I even agree with your version, who knows. But please answer the question. What do you think happended in those 45 days that the area was cordoned off ?

Nothing. I don't know If you have ever heard of satellites but they are great at taking images from space. And unless you are going to claim that our army threw a blanket over the area, the facts can't be hidden.

 

[Bewal Express]

No independent reporter was allowed. No one.




I am not quibbling with you. My only point of contention is the 45 day period. Maybe no one died but at the very least, you should accept that the area in question was a hotspot for terrorists and the army wanted to clear them out and anything incriminating before giving access to foriegn press. Do you agree that this is the most likely explanation?

As far as a hotspot for terrorists is concerned, if there was going to be one, the organisers surely would avoid detection by not having it in a such a obvious area. Instead you should be asking why a Young Kashmiri managed to kill so many of your soldiers, either it was an inside job or your forces are rubbish

 

[moghul]

Fawad Chaudry's statement, about taking credit for Bulwana attack was equally stupid, what a bunch of idiots we have in or parliament.

 

[Local.Dada]

Firstly keeping aside the narratives, this guy shouldn’t have said that in a public forum like the assembly of all places regardless of the facts. Isn’t he an elected representative? So
I understand the outrage.

However not sure why this is a such a celebrated moment for Pakistanis anyways

Let us see We got of our pilot back, we even went a step further and cancelled out article 370 which is not what you expect after a “goodwill gesture” which wouldn’t have happened this hastily if not for that skirmish, we lost an out dated jet which I am sure is covered by some kind of an insurance some where if not no worries we have the money to replace and get an upgrade.

So apart from moral victories, not sure what is there to gloat about this incident.

 

[ahsan17]

My theory is that the army had to clear out their live terror assets and material from the area before opening it to press and it took 45 days to do so. Makes sense, no?

Sure, I mean it would not be objectively inconsistent with all the facts we know about the whole episode.

 

[Thomaskutty]

As far as a hotspot for terrorists is concerned, if there was going to be one, the organisers surely would avoid detection by not having it in a such a obvious area.

It was not an obvious area. Nobody would have believed that 12 indians jets would cross the Pakistan border and fly near a seminary/madrassa. That took everybody by surprise, indian citizens included.

 

[Thomaskutty]

And unless you are going to claim that our army threw a blanket over the area, the facts can't be hidden.

Yes, it can .. secure the area and then transport by trucks or through tunnels etc.. so many ways to go undetected. But it had to be done slowly, due to the sudden interest from overhead satellites.

 

[El Generico]

Firstly keeping aside the narratives, this guy shouldn’t have said that in a public forum like the assembly of all places regardless of the facts. Isn’t he an elected representative? So
I understand the outrage.

However not sure why this is a such a celebrated moment for Pakistanis anyways

Let us see We got of our pilot back, we even went a step further and cancelled out article 370 which is not what you expect after a “goodwill gesture” which wouldn’t have happened this hastily if not for that skirmish, we lost an out dated jet which I am sure is covered by some kind of an insurance some where if not no worries we have the money to replace and get an upgrade.

So apart from moral victories, not sure what is there to gloat about this incident.

You are welcome. if you guys ever need more insurance money or an "upgrade". just send some of your jets over again. I am sure the PAF would oblige .

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, it can .. secure the area and then transport by trucks or through tunnels etc.. so many ways to go undetected. But it had to be done slowly, due to the sudden interest from overhead satellites.

But when it was happening, did they get any images or not. I think you are just desperate to find something. I feel for you.

 

[Bewal Express]

It was not an obvious area. Nobody would have believed that 12 indians jets would cross the Pakistan border and fly near a seminary/madrassa. That took everybody by surprise, indian citizens included.

As I said you are looking for things. Modi couldn't care less about what he hit, he just wanted to look strong and make a monkeys out of the Hindutuva. He certainly did that.

 

[Napa]

I think Pakistanis genuinely wanted to perform a goodwill gesture towards India. This could have been seen in their news channels and on social media as well. The mood of Pakistani nation was that of returning Abhinandan and this cannot be denied. Only Zaid Hamid wanted to keep Abhinandan and looking at what India did in Kashmir after that, dare i say his stand is vindicated (I cannot believe i am saying this).

No, it wasn't goodwill. If Pakistanis wanted to show goodwill towards India, they would not have backed those who carried out the Pulwama attack.

Someone comes into my house and drops a bomb. And I serve him tea and send him home? Come on, we all understand what happened here.

 

[Syed1]

Indians think Abhinandan dropped bombs )


The only thing he dropped was himself out of his flaming jet

 

[ahsan17]

No, it wasn't goodwill. If Pakistanis wanted to show goodwill towards India, they would not have backed those who carried out the Pulwama attack.

Someone comes into my house and drops a bomb. And I serve him tea and send him home? Come on, we all understand what happened here.

This just comes down to what you want to believe. One could argue India was humiliated enough with the preceding events that there was no need for Pakistan to do anything funny here. That's as plausible a narrative as well.

 

[Uzi]

This is what I think happened. The Indians led by an extremely brave squadron leader in Abhinandan dropped their payload over a village and 300 odd terrorists died on the spot along with a number of weeping willows. Abhinandan managed to shoot down a PAF F16 before he then suffered a mechanical failure and went down.

IAF pilots are far superior to their Pakistani counterparts and that was evidenced with this episode last year.

 

[El Generico]

No, it wasn't goodwill. If Pakistanis wanted to show goodwill towards India, they would not have backed those who carried out the Pulwama attack.

Someone comes into my house and drops a bomb. And I serve him tea and send him home? Come on, we all understand what happened here.

What bomb? He was shot down cause he crossed into Pakistani territory while chasing the Pakistani jets that violated the Indian airspace. Where are you getting your information from?

 

[Napa]

This just comes down to what you want to believe. One could argue India was humiliated enough with the preceding events that there was no need for Pakistan to do anything funny here. That's as plausible a narrative as well.

Humiliated? Depends upon who you talk to. I have talked to many Indians and they say that Pakistan got slapped by being bombed and then being too afraid to even hold the pilot for a week.

They are now laughing at the report that Bajwa's legs were shaking at the prospect of a war with India if they didn't return the pilot to India promptly. The report makes sense to them as it explains why a pilot who bombed Pakistan "illegally" (without a war declaration) was released so quickly.

 

[Napa]

What bomb? He was shot down cause he crossed into Pakistani territory while chasing the Pakistani jets that violated the Indian airspace. Where are you getting your information from?

Didn't India first send planes over to bomb without having declared war?

 

[Syed1]

Humiliated? Depends upon who you talk to. I have talked to many Indians and they say that Pakistan got slapped by being bombed and then being too afraid to even hold the pilot for a week.

They are now laughing at the report that Bajwa's legs were shaking at the prospect of a war with India if they didn't return the pilot to India promptly. The report makes sense to them as it explains why a pilot who bombed Pakistan "illegally" (without a war declaration) was released so quickly.

Abhinandan didn't bomb anything. He was shot down. Stop sniffing glue

 

[Syed1]

What bomb? He was shot down cause he crossed into Pakistani territory while chasing the Pakistani jets that violated the Indian airspace. Where are you getting your information from?

You are trying to explain facts to a Hindutva person who thinks India is a first world country. Good luck.

 

[Slog]

Humiliated? Depends upon who you talk to. I have talked to many Indians and they say that Pakistan got slapped by being bombed and then being too afraid to even hold the pilot for a week.

They are now laughing at the report that Bajwa's legs were shaking at the prospect of a war with India if they didn't return the pilot to India promptly. The report makes sense to them as it explains why a pilot who bombed Pakistan "illegally" (without a war declaration) was released so quickly.

Lol that is some spinning of facts.

Abhinandan and India were humiliated in front of the world and were made memes.

Abhinandan was dragged around like a mule by the locals and then tea jokes were made on him and he was made to praise pakistan army at will before being handed over.

Also Abhinandan didn’t bomb anything. The bombing of the trees happened 2 days prior by different set. Abhinandan was lured into Pakistan territory and then shot down. Atleast the tea he got was ‘fantastic’ and the price of it was an Indian fighter jet.

 

[El Generico]

Humiliated? Depends upon who you talk to. I have talked to many Indians and they say that Pakistan got slapped by being bombed and then being too afraid to even hold the pilot for a week.

They are now laughing at the report that Bajwa's legs were shaking at the prospect of a war with India if they didn't return the pilot to India promptly. The report makes sense to them as it explains why a pilot who bombed Pakistan "illegally" (without a war declaration) was released so quickly.

Many Indians also believe that a F-16 was knocked down and 500 people were killed in the attack. How can you argue with people who live in such fantasies?

Also even in Ayaz Sadiq’s statement he never mentioned anything about Bajwa’s leg shaking. Where did your dream up this bit from?

As for releasing the pilot, didn’t PLA “illegally” beat 30 of your soldiers to death and are still on your territory but yet your army let their prisoner go in a matter of days? I don’t think the Indian army did it because they are cowards who are scared of another whopping from the PLA, do you?

Abhinandan wasn’t even involved in the bombing, would serve no purpose in holding him. Nobody holds prisoners from a limited skirmish.

 

[El Generico]

You are trying to explain facts to a Hindutva person who thinks India is a first world country. Good luck.

Lol you are right, i am probably just wasting my time.

 

[Slog]

No independent reporter was allowed. No one.




I am not quibbling with you. My only point of contention is the 45 day period. Maybe no one died but at the very least, you should accept that the area in question was a hotspot for terrorists and the army wanted to clear them out and anything incriminating before giving access to foriegn press. Do you agree that this is the most likely explanation?

But that is not the point here. What you are saying may or may not be true but that’s not under discussion and neither is that the claim that is made by indians generally.

Many Indians claims that actually 300 terrorists were killed and then their bodies were cleared and evidence removed of damage to the structures. I am just contesting that because that just doesn’t make sense.

 

[ahsan17]

Humiliated? Depends upon who you talk to. I have talked to many Indians and they say that Pakistan got slapped by being bombed and then being too afraid to even hold the pilot for a week.

They are now laughing at the report that Bajwa's legs were shaking at the prospect of a war with India if they didn't return the pilot to India promptly. The report makes sense to them as it explains why a pilot who bombed Pakistan "illegally" (without a war declaration) was released so quickly.

It looks like you are trying to rewrite history here. Nearly any neutral (even neutrals that favour India) analyst thought India got humiliated. The coverage in international media was basically one sided. Christine Fair came to Delhi and humiliated a crowd full of war hawk Indians about how India got slapped around on that day.

Btw, Abhinandan never bombed anyone. He was caught the next day, not the day India first had the bombing runs.

The logic around Abhinandan makes no sense because the same logic could have been used by India to get Khulbhusan Yadav released, or to stop Pakistan from retaliating. As I mentioned, you just want to believe the statements of a Pakistani opposition individual who has a horse in the race, you are free to believe them. It doesn't look like this story is getting picked up anywhere outside India or Pakistan.

 

[ahsan17]

What bomb? He was shot down cause he crossed into Pakistani territory while chasing the Pakistani jets that violated the Indian airspace. Where are you getting your information from?

He thinks Abhinandan got shot down on the same night India did the bombing run that supposedly killed 300 people but actually killed a few trees and birds.

 

[Napa]

He thinks Abhinandan got shot down on the same night India did the bombing run that supposedly killed 300 people but actually killed a few trees and birds.

Niazi corridor redux.

Pakistanis were told they were winning the war in East Pakistan till Niazi surrendered.

"This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms". In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".

A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi#Death_and_legacy

 

[ahsan17]

Niazi corridor redux.

Pakistanis were told they were winning the war in East Pakistan till Niazi surrendered.

"This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms". In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".

A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi#Death_and_legacy

And have you surrendered by attempting to change the topic?

 

[Slog]

Niazi corridor redux.

Pakistanis were told they were winning the war in East Pakistan till Niazi surrendered.

"This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms". In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".

A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi#Death_and_legacy

Well that’s one way to show you have no legitimate and intelligent response to the topic at hand.

 

[Napa]

And have you surrendered by attempting to change the topic?

Just pointing out that you shouldn't believe everything your media and government tells you.

Time for me to exit this thread

 

[Slog]

Just pointing out that you shouldn't believe everything your media and government tells you.

Time for me to exit this thread

An expected response when one is cornered with logic and evidence and has no place to run. Well atleast you were gracious in defeat and didn’t leave crying, kicking and screaming.

 

[ahsan17]

Just pointing out that you shouldn't believe everything your media and government tells you.

Time for me to exit this thread

This has nothing to do with Pakistani media and government. I am arguing objectively here - feel free to tell me what is not objective. The satellite images were not released by the Pakistani government or media, they were released by international media. The lack of evidence with respect to F-16 being shot down is not a Pakistani government issue. There is clear evidence that an Indian plane was shot down and its pilot captured. As far as what's reported in OP, it's a statement by an opposition politician, but has no evidence either way to support it, so people are free to believe what they want.

 

[Syed1]

Hindutva Napa shown his auqaat haha



Well done boys

 

[AMSS]

1) that is a plot-hole in our narrative and I mentioned it in my previous post.

2) if we consider it a plot-hole, it is still a minor one compared to the fact that India have failed to provide a shred of evidence that they actually managed to hit any targets and kill terrorists.

So if you think India failing to provide any evidence that they hit the targets is more convincing than Pakistan blocking public access for 45 days, it is your call.

Besides, this is the first time I’ve heard about the 45 days stuff. However, I will take your word for it and assume that you have credible sources because you don’t like a propagandist to me.

India’s failure to literally provide zero evidence that (a) they managed to hit their targets and kill terrorists and (b) they shot an F-16 is sufficient evidence that India goofed up.

The public will never truly find out what really transpired. However, at the end of the day, India had nothing tangible to show for (apart from shooting its own heli) while Pakistan had Abhinandan to gloat over.

Hence, any rational and logical individual would draw the conclusion that Pakistan had the upper hand in this skirmish.

As far as this “brave gentleman” is concerned, he is engaging in political point-scoring. In Pakistan, politics take precedence over national interests. If this “brave gentleman” was in government, he would have never made this statements.

PTI supporters will criticize him but PTI is no different. When Imran Khan was in the opposition and PMLN had the military backing, Imran Khan publicly called Pakistan army a bull in china shop and accused them of extra-judicial killings.

However, now that he has the backing of the army, he has changed his stance and cannot stop singing praises of Pakistan army.

This “brave gentleman” will take no time in changing his tune if the military deserts PTI and starts backing his party.

In Pakistan politics, the formula is simple. Since the military is the central power and calls the shots, any party that has their backing will praise them and any party that does not have their backing will criticize them.

Boss, mamoon, you are too caught up in the whole narrative business. It seems to me that you think of it in a sort of sporting terms, two opponents going at each other with an audience present to judge who won and who lost. To me, that's not how it works.

And even for narratives, you seemingly have this strange view that the one with least amount of holes in it wins the battle of credibility. Again, not true.

Lastly, there's the little point that if there is indeed a battle of narratives, then who's the audience for it, who's this narrative being sold to?

You may think that because IAF couldn't show the wreckage of the Pakistani F-16, somehow the IAF operations were bungled. For Indians, that's an insignificant detail. The meat of the matter on this side of the border is that Modi government broke many red lines by choosing at respond with air power to a terror attack. That the PAF chose to NOT EVEN GET AIRBORNE to respond even as IAF was deep in your territory, just like the Osama Raid, was the cherry on top.

Remember that the morning after the IAF raid, most of the DGISPR effort was to convince the domestic audience that Pak military controls the escalatory ladder. Because it was this very fiction of controlling escalatory dominance that IAF blew up the previous night. Did the PAF get this dominance back on the day of the dogfight? I think PAF/DGISPR did well to sell their public that yes they did. But they know that India in future WILL have air retaliation as an option should a terror attack materialize.

PAF downing a MiG 21, a dogfight that happened in Pak airspace BTW, will not deter IAF from striking Pakistan again in response to a terror attack. The Pak military understands this full well. Think of the entire Abhi saga as a fig leaf that helped your military save their collective faces before your own public.

And yes, this was indeed brave of this gentleman to narrate how the events transpired that forced Pakistanis to release Abhi before 9 PM.

 

[Uzi]

Napa has just been shot down in his mig. Have a cup of tea mate. Hopefully that will help diminish your delusions of grandeur.

 

[AMSS]

The story so far

1. IAF bombed balakot as admitted by PAF in the morning a few hours later.

2. Even as IAF was bombing the target, they flew in and out UNCHALLENGED. The PAF didn't even DARE to engage them. Just like the Osama raid.

3. PAF gets airborne the next day in large formations and lobs a few bombs from within their own territory. Whether the bombs miss their target from INCOMPETENCE or they were designed to miss to prevent escalation is something you can choose to believe based on your preference.

4. Unlike the PAF that chose to stay grounded when IAF invaded them, the IAF responded. Abhinandan flew right into the Pakistani territory chasing a few F-16, shooting one and got shot himself in the process.

5. DGISPR and Pakistani PM, both in separate address to the press/nation, agree with Indian claim saying there were two pilots in captivity.

6. India issues an ultimatum to Pakistan saying the Indian pilot be returned before 9 PM IST of March 1. Pakistan returns the pilot before 9 PM calling it a goodwill gesture.

7. Pakistani parliamentarian who attended the debrief from their government/military acknowledges that Pakistan was afraid of Indian attack and released Abhi fearing the same.

 

[Syed1]

The story so far

1. IAF bombed balakot as admitted by PAF in the morning a few hours later.

2. Even as IAF was bombing the target, they flew in and out UNCHALLENGED. The PAF didn't even DARE to engage them. Just like the Osama raid.

3. PAF gets airborne the next day in large formations and lobs a few bombs from within their own territory. Whether the bombs miss their target from INCOMPETENCE or they were designed to miss to prevent escalation is something you can choose to believe based on your preference.

4. Unlike the PAF that chose to stay grounded when IAF invaded them, the IAF responded. Abhinandan flew right into the Pakistani territory chasing a few F-16, shooting one and got shot himself in the process.

5. DGISPR and Pakistani PM, both in separate address to the press/nation, agree with Indian claim saying there were two pilots in captivity.

6. India issues an ultimatum to Pakistan saying the Indian pilot be returned before 9 PM IST of March 1. Pakistan returns the pilot before 9 PM calling it a goodwill gesture.

7. Pakistani parliamentarian who attended the debrief from their government/military acknowledges that Pakistan was afraid of Indian attack and released Abhi fearing the same.

Haha nice Hindutva fantasy story. Full marks for efforts.


You got your slapped around and humiliated. Only a Hindutva can claim victory after such a defeat

 

[AMSS]

TBH, this Pak minister stole the thunder from ayaz sadiq, with his own admission in the legislature.

 

[Syed1]

TBH, this Pak minister stole the thunder from ayaz sadiq, with his own admission in the legislature.

So if his admission is true than Pakistan sent 40 odd Bharti terrorist army to hell and all IAF could do is bomb a couple of trees and got even more humiliated the next day )


Even looking worse from a Hindutva perspective now

 

[AMSS]

So if his admission is true than Pakistan sent 40 odd Bharti terrorist army to hell and all IAF could do is bomb a couple of trees and got even more humiliated the next day )


Even looking worse from a Hindutva perspective now

Sure buddy. *tum itna jo muskura rahe hon....*

 

[Local.Dada]

TBH, this Pak minister stole the thunder from ayaz sadiq, with his own admission in the legislature.

so true.

The narrative that big bad Indian army was attacking innocent pakistan sounds so much better in retrospect than another guy getting triggered and saying/ admitting we sent terrorists, not army or intelligence but terrorists to kill policemen just doing their job.

He absolutely stole the thunder lol

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistanis should just stop talking out that episode lol. They seem to be giving it all away be it this guy or that Fawad dude. Ofcourse I understand they'll be positively emotional over that as it's probably the biggest military achievement in their nation's history of defeats and surrenders and would like to milk it as much as they can.........

but saying we were scared and let abhi go , we sent terrorists to pulwama and that's our biggest achievement etc etc is not helping at all.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Sure buddy. *tum itna jo muskura rahe hon....*

so true.

The narrative that big bad Indian army was attacking innocent pakistan sounds so much better in retrospect than another guy getting triggered and saying/ admitting we sent terrorists, not army or intelligence but terrorists to kill policemen just doing their job.

He absolutely stole the thunder lol

I can understand that geopolitics is a difficult field rife with propaganda so it's hard to filter out the facts but what's with the massive show of stupidity at being unable to decipher what Fawad said in the assembly?

Are you people non-native Hindi/Urdu speakers so you didn't understand what Fawad said or just too deep into Modi-mania that nothing else makes any sense anymore?

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Pakistanis should just stop talking out that episode lol. They seem to be giving it all away be it this guy or that Fawad dude. Ofcourse I understand they'll be positively emotional over that as it's probably the biggest military achievement in their nation's history of defeats and surrenders and would like to milk it as much as they can.........

but saying we were scared and let abhi go , we sent terrorists to pulwama and that's our biggest achievement etc etc is not helping at all.

Here comes another one who got missed in the quote of my earlier post.

^^

 

[MenInG]

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font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-stylermal; font-weight:550; line-height:18px;"> View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style="padding: 12.5% 0;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: row; margin-bottom: 14px; align-items: center;"><div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 12.5px; width: 12.5px; transform: translateX(0px) translateY(7px);"></div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; height: 12.5px; transform: rotate(-45deg) translateX(3px) translateY(1px); width: 12.5px; flex-grow: 0; margin-right: 14px; margin-left: 2px;"></div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 12.5px; width: 12.5px; transform: translateX(9px) translateY(-18px);"></div></div><div style="margin-left: 8px;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 20px; width: 20px;"></div> <div style=" width: 0; height: 0; border-top: 2px solid transparent; border-left: 6px solid #f4f4f4; border-bottom: 2px solid transparent; transform: translateX(16px) translateY(-4px) rotate(30deg)"></div></div><div style="margin-left: auto;"> <div style=" width: 0px; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-right: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(16px);"></div> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; flex-grow: 0; height: 12px; width: 16px; transform: translateY(-4px);"></div> <div style=" width: 0; height: 0; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-left: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(-4px) translateX(8px);"></div></div></div></a> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/CG7VnVShjKk/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-stylermal; font-weightrmal; line-height:17px; text-decorationne; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Former National Assembly speaker and senior PML-N leader Sardar Ayaz Sadiq on Thursday said his statement that the PTI government had released Indian pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman fearing an imminent attack from India was being "misquoted and misreported". "Abhinandan had not come to Pakistan to distribute sweets; he had attacked Pakistan and it was a victory for Pakistan when his plane was shot down," he said in a video message. Sadiq said upon Qureshi's request, the civil leadership decided to release the Indian pilot for the sake of "national interest". #DawnToday</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-spacewrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/dawn.today/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-stylermal; font-weightrmal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Dawn Today</a> (@dawn.today) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2020-10-29T12:18:32+00:00">Oct 29, 2020 at 5:18am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Information Minister Shibli Faraz on Friday said that the time to apologise for PML-N leader Ayaz Sadiq's remarks had passed, adding that now the law will take its course.

The information minister was referring to Sadiq's statement made in the National Assembly, in which the latter suggested that the PTI government had released Indian pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman in capitulation, fearing an imminent attack from India.

"The remarks by Ayaz Sadiq are beyond apology. Now the law will take its course," Faraz tweeted.

"Weakening the state is an unforgivable crime for which Ayaz Sadiq and his companions must be punished," the federal minister added.

In a press conference yesterday, Faraz had demanded an unconditional apology from Ayaz Sadiq over his remarks.

“His statement has only pleased Indians and they are exhilarated after what a person of high stature stated in the National Assembly,” he said.

Separately, in a press briefing yesterday, Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director General Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar, without naming anyone, said that it was "disappointing" and "misleading" to attempt to link Abhinandan's release with anything other than Pakistan's mature response as a responsible state.

"Pakistan responded to India in broad daylight after announcing it," the DG ISPR said in a press conference. "Not only did we give an appropriate reply, but also shot down two enemy war planes [and] Wing Commander Abhinandan was captured."

"Being a responsible state, the Government of Pakistan in order to give peace another chance decided to release Indian prisoner of war Wing Commander Abhinandan," he added, emphasising that this decision, which was in line with the Geneva Convention, was praised the world over.

Abhinandan was captured in February 2019 after his plane was shot down by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) after it violated Pakistani airspace in a serious escalation of hostilities between India and Pakistan.

A day after his capture, Prime Minister Imran Khan had announced that the pilot would be released as a "gesture of peace" to India.

While speaking in the lower house of parliament on Wednesday, Sadiq had claimed that Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi had during the post-Pulwama military stand-off with India urged the opposition parties at a meeting of the parliamentary groups to let the captured Indian pilot go because India was set to attack Pakistan that night.

"I remember [Foreign Minister] Shah Mahmood Qureshi sahib was present in that meeting, which the prime minister had refused to attend. The chief of army staff also attended," Sadiq had said while responding to federal minister Murad Saeed.

"With legs shaking and sweat on the forehead, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said to us, 'For God's sake, let him (Abhinandan) go back now'," he had claimed, adding "no attack was imminent; they only wanted to capitulate and send Abhinandan back".

As his comments went viral on social media and were picked up by Indian television channels, Sadiq issued a clarification on Thursday, saying the tweets and Indian media reports were "totally contrary" to what he actually said in the parliament.

However, his criticism of Prime Minister Imran was unrelenting. He questioned the circumstances under which the decision to release Abhinandan was taken and insisted that the move was wrong.

"Abhinandan had not come to Pakistan to distribute sweets; he had attacked Pakistan and it was a victory for Pakistan when his plane was shot down," he said in a video message.

Source DAWN

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="rtl">PMLN's Khurram Dastagir WARNS <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> to stop discussing Ayaz Sadiq, otherwise he'll leak National Secrets<br>&#55357;&#56883;<br><br>"ایاز صادق کےمعاملے پر اب خاموش ہو جائیں ورنہ ہم مزید خوفناک انکشافات سامنے لےآئیں گے" - خرم دستگیر<br><br>پوری ن لیگ کا "دماغ" پھسل کر گر گیا ہے۔&#55357;&#56865;<br> <a href="https://t.co/1SttS0XMDX">pic.twitter.com/1SttS0XMDX</a></p>— Maleeha Hashmey (@MaleehaHashmey) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaleehaHashmey/status/1322243903651721216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Getting a bit desperate, are we.

 

[Bewal Express]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="rtl">PMLN's Khurram Dastagir WARNS <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> to stop discussing Ayaz Sadiq, otherwise he'll leak National Secrets<br>��<br><br>"ایاز صادق کےمعاملے پر اب خاموش ہو جائیں ورنہ ہم مزید خوفناک انکشافات سامنے لےآئیں گے" - خرم دستگیر<br><br>پوری ن لیگ کا "دماغ" پھسل کر گر گیا ہے۔��<br> <a href="https://t.co/1SttS0XMDX">pic.twitter.com/1SttS0XMDX</a></p>— Maleeha Hashmey (@MaleehaHashmey) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaleehaHashmey/status/1322243903651721216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Getting a bit desperate, are we.

You see my point about these haraamis. They would betray PK without a 2nd thought. Its time we disbanded this whole mafia

 

[GujjarLife]

Mighty Indian Army which shot down its own helicopter in panick.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

You learn something new everyday Pakistan sacred off India

Get this through your thick head Indians nobody sacred off India and certainly not terrorist Modi.

And PMNL once a ghadar always a ghadar.

 

[MenInG]

PML-N leader and former National Assembly speaker, Ayaz Sadiq, on Saturday while talking about his recent speech in the lower house said he stands by his stance, adding that he had "many secrets" but never made irresponsible statements.
Sadiq was referring to a speech he made in the National Assembly this week, in which he suggested that the PTI government had released Indian pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman in capitulation, fearing an imminent attack from India.

His statement was heavily criticised by ministers and by social media users and also prompted the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) chief Major General Babar Iftikhar to hold a presser in which he he sought to "correct the record" regarding the events that surrounded India's violation of Pakistani airspace last year in February.

Although Gen Ikftikhar did not name anyone, he said "a statement was given yesterday which tried to distort the history of issues associated with national security," purportedly in reference to Sadiq's remarks.

Talking to the media in Lahore alongside Maulana Fazlur Rehman, head of the Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) and chief of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F), Sadiq said that the "political colour" given to his statement did not benefit Pakistan's narrative.

"We can have different thoughts politically but where Pakistan is concerned, the whole nation is united and God willing, will give a splendid answer to India. People may have objections to what I said but the political colour given to it did not benefit Pakistan's narrative," he said.

"This selected government tried to support the unsuccessful narrative that was being created in India," he said, adding that the opposition had "strong reservations" about the government on what he termed its silence on Kashmir and its foreign policy failures.

"But these are political differences. Their attempt to associate my statement with the armed forces of Pakistan was not a service to the country. My statement can be seen and heard in which I talked about this government, which government officials misread by adopting Indian media's strategies. This is not only a blatant plot against Pakistan but is a disservice to Pakistan," he said.

"You (the government) have played in the hands of Indian media and you have not done justice to Pakistan. I am standing by my stance and you will see in future, I have many secrets. I had been heading the National Security Committee."

The PML-N leader added that he had, however, never made irresponsible statements and would never do so in the future as well.

"I want to say about this inefficient government, you can fight any political battles you want but political parties will only agree with you when it comes to Pakistan. I request you to keep the armed forces out of this fight."

Referring to posters put up in Lahore, calling him a "traitor", Sadiq said such posters were not doing a service to Pakistan.

He said that there was "a multitude of mindsets in our society but we are all patriotic", adding that he did not have the right to call anyone a traitor and nobody had the right to call him one either.

The PML-N leader said "we are political people" and have been making statements against political opponents in the past and would continue to do so in the future. "But at one point, when it comes to Pakistan or the matter of our unity or institutions, Pakistan's message to India is very clear.

"We, the Pakistani nation are one. We have political differences with the government but we are united in the matter of India," he said and requested the media to not "blow up" the matter.

When asked whether he would apologise, Sadiq said he had "not said anything [for which to apologise]" and he has already issued a clarification.

'Storm in a teacup'
Maulana Fazl said that the government tried to create a "storm in a teacup" over Sadiq's statement, adding that if someone "destroys a person's character and his patriotism", then they should also be brought back to their "original standing".

"It is our responsibility to keep our politics according to the law and the Constitution," he stated.

He said the PDM – an anti-government alliance of 11 opposition parties –had a clear stance. "There was rigging on July 25, 2018. We do not accept the basis of this government. We are steadfast on our stance. Today is the day I was passing to Islamabad from Lahore in Azadi March and I will walk towards Islamabad again."

"Nobody is above criticism ... our institutions are so sacred that they are above criticism. We do not accept this rule. We are against blasphemous attitude, whether related to courts and judiciary or ourselves."

Maulana Fazl claimed the PTI government had "bankrupted the country and Pakistan was at risk" under this regime.

'Indian media using Sadiq's speech to fullest degree'
Meanwhile, Information Minister Shibli Faraz alleged that the opposition was creating a narrative to destabilise the country.

"Sadiq criticised the army and air force and tried to bring down their morale," Faraz said. The minister also showed footage of Indian media channels and claimed that they were "using the PML-N leader's speech to the fullest degree".

Faraz said "certain elements" in the opposition were speaking against state institutions to "protect their personal interests".

He said the government would hold "these political vagabonds and those who want to damage our image" responsible.

The minister claimed that the PDM leadership's statements were "not in national interest", adding that the government would not "allow them to speak against the country".

"If these political vagabonds say anything to harm national interest, we will punish them, the people will punish them," he said.

 

[Syed1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When your own dogs start barking back at you, understand that someone else is feeding them! </p>— Ali Haider Zaidi (@AliHZaidiPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/AliHZaidiPTI/status/1322436019225088000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Syed1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">یہ ہیں وہ بہادر شاہین جن کے نہ ہاتھ لرزتے ہیں، نہ پاؤں کانپتے ہیں۔ اِن کے نشانے سے بھارتی سینا لرزتی ہے۔ ایاز صادق کے پیچھے پوری ن لیگ بول رہی ہے۔ جنہوں نے مودی کو ذاتی چائے پر بلایا، وہ کہاں اور ابھی نندن کو "فنٹاسٹک" چائے پلانے والے کہاں؟ <a href="https://t.co/nmZP6IOpaL">pic.twitter.com/nmZP6IOpaL</a></p>— Babar Awan (@BabarAwanPK) <a href="https://twitter.com/BabarAwanPK/status/1322576259566764032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>