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POTW : AssassinatedDevil

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The 'were Pakistan worthy winners of the Champions Trophy' debate shows no sign of dying on PP!

Congratulations to [MENTION=146253]AssassinatedDevil[/MENTION] for winning the POTW, for his views on the subject which he expressed in:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-coach-quot-Younis-Khan&p=9588593#post9588593


So tell me this. In a hypothetical world, how should Pakistan win against India so that its not deemed a fluke? Crushing them by almost 200 runs apparently wasn't enough for you.

I don't think you know how sports in general work to be honest. A competitive game between 2 teams is about who performs better on the day. Past performances have no direct impact on the outcome of a game on a given day. There might be psychological issues present in the players minds, but no factor that arises from the sport of cricket itself. If a team makes a comeback and wins 5 straight games in a row in a world tournament, then i would think that the team is gaining momentum and peaking at a good time rather than marching towards an all-time great fluke. No sports team wins a tournament without a bit of luck going their way. Luck gives teams a window of opportunity, and its up to the players and how they avail that chance. For example, Fakhar could have been out if that no ball wasn't bowled, but he made the most of that chance and it has lead to us having this conversation. You don't win a whole tournament because of a "fluke". And you definitely don't win a whole tournament because things just happen to go your way.

The whole point of a champions trophy and a world cup is to see how teams perform when the stakes are high and they are forced to play against the best of the world. If the game was all about law of averages or track records, then the trophy would be given to the number one ranked team and there would never be any tournaments or world cups.

What we can "extrapolate" from this is that Pakistan, against all odds proved to the world that we have world class players that can rise up to the occasion. We can also extrapolate that these players are able to withstand the pressure of a tournament final against their arch rivals and outclass them in every department. This in no way proves that Pakistan is better than India, but it gives us a reason to be even more excited for the next inevitable pak-india encounter.

As for the all-time great fascinating marvelous mamoon approved Indian batting order, its not the first time their batting order has succumbed to our bowling. The Asia cup 2016 clash might ring some bells. They weren't "bound" to fail for once, they were outclassed by some of the best bowling in the world. Each time the batsmen walks out to bat, it is a new game of chance. Saying that they were bound to fail means they cant maintain the consistency with which they play, not to mention bring their A game when required the most. If they cant do that, then they should never win a trophy ever again, since its all about performing when it matters in a tournament, not just winning bilaterals.
 
great post. I noticed a certain poster keeps repeating the fluke argument because his favourite team lost. But really, Pakistan were the better team on the day and deserved to win
 
Congratulations to a very worthy post, but I am afraid all the attempts to prove that the Champions Trophy was not a flash in the pan have fallen flat after the NZ ODI series.

Nonetheless, I admire the patriotism and passion of the folks who continue to fight a lost war in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

The outcome of the NZ ODI series has only strengthened my belief that the Champions Trophy 2017 ranks as one of the biggest flukes in history of ICC tournaments. It is right up there with India's 1983 World Cup triumph.

Anyhow, once again, congratulations to a very fine new poster.
 
Congratulations to a very worthy post, but I am afraid all the attempts to prove that the Champions Trophy was not a flash in the pan have fallen flat after the NZ ODI series.

Nonetheless, I admire the patriotism and passion of the folks who continue to fight a lost war in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

The outcome of the NZ ODI series has only strengthened my belief that the Champions Trophy 2017 ranks as one of the biggest flukes in history of ICC tournaments. It is right up there with India's 1983 World Cup triumph.

Anyhow, once again, congratulations to a very fine new poster.

How did 83 thing come suddenly??
 
Congratulations to a very worthy post, but I am afraid all the attempts to prove that the Champions Trophy was not a flash in the pan have fallen flat after the NZ ODI series.

Nonetheless, I admire the patriotism and passion of the folks who continue to fight a lost war in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

The outcome of the NZ ODI series has only strengthened my belief that the Champions Trophy 2017 ranks as one of the biggest flukes in history of ICC tournaments. It is right up there with India's 1983 World Cup triumph.

Anyhow, once again, congratulations to a very fine new poster.

I just think it's the use of the word "fluke" that has stirred this up but I do see where you're coming from it was a one - off.
 
Thanks my man

Mention not yaar. To be frank if I was debating in favour of Pakistan's win being a fluke and read your post, I would stop arguing. Though I would say this, a small but major factor was missing - and that is Pakistan's performance in English conditions. Pakistan has a history of success and consistent performances in England. Never right off Pakistan in a tournament/series held in England.

I guess some people lost a lot of money betting against Pakistan in England. Clearly they are unaware of the 5-sigma details!

Again, well done matey!
 
In this debate only one thing is left to be said: Life is a fluke!
 
Mention not yaar. To be frank if I was debating in favour of Pakistan's win being a fluke and read your post, I would stop arguing. Though I would say this, a small but major factor was missing - and that is Pakistan's performance in English conditions. Pakistan has a history of success and consistent performances in England. Never right off Pakistan in a tournament/series held in England.

I guess some people lost a lot of money betting against Pakistan in England. Clearly they are unaware of the 5-sigma details!

Again, well done matey!

High praise. Thanks once again man.

I cant believe i forgot to mention that. I absolutely agree that Pakistan has had a decent amount of success in the past when playing in england. I think its mainly to do with the playing conditions which they might find refreshing and helpful as opposed to the dull pitches of UAE. Our bowlers enjoy the seaming conditions there. Batting did very well in the CT but the bowling was definitely what won us the tournament. Not to mention the insane support we get in the UK because of British-Pakistanis. The pakistani support here in australia is nothing compared to the one in UK sadly.

The 2016 test series was a spectacle as well. Hopefully the english tour later this year ends up going well somehow.
 
[MENTION=57506]hadi123[/MENTION] [MENTION=143775]backfootpunch[/MENTION] Thanks guys. Much appreciated.
 
well done [MENTION=146253]AssassinatedDevil[/MENTION] great work. Keep contributing quality posts like you have done till now.
 
Good post

Indian batting and esp Kohli have a history of failing in big ICC One day tournament matches.

So hardly a fluke.

Pakistan handled pressure better
 
brilliant post, fact of the matter is for that summer, Pakistan beat South Africa, Sri Lanka, England and India consecutively, with the India and England games in my opinion classified as hammerings. Are Pakistan one of the better one day teams currently? debatable. But the CT 17 was definitely no fluke so lets not take anything away from the teams performance.I suppose Leicester winning the English Premiership was also a fluke.
 
Loved your posts schooling Mamoon :))

Thanks man hahahah I'm glad you enjoy them

brilliant post, fact of the matter is for that summer, Pakistan beat South Africa, Sri Lanka, England and India consecutively, with the India and England games in my opinion classified as hammerings. Are Pakistan one of the better one day teams currently? debatable. But the CT 17 was definitely no fluke so lets not take anything away from the teams performance.I suppose Leicester winning the English Premiership was also a fluke.

Thanks man. Thats my view as well. One of the biggest problem on this forum is that people have really bad memory and seem to think that the players have done nothing in their professional careers in the past. It's unfair and a waste of time to draw conclusions such as "they couldn't do anything in this series hence (insert series or tournament) was a fluke"
 
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