POTW : Junaids

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A subject which has grabbed headlines in recent times and how it manifests itself in cricket is described nicely by [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] in this weeks POTW!

Congratulations to him

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?294479-Racism-in-cricket&p=10783087#post10783087

Racism in England has reached a funny point.

There is still the elitism at the top of the class system, where if you are Imran or Majid Khan or Benazir Bhutto and you go to Oxford University you are above 95% of white British people in the class system.

But if you are from more humble roots and you are of Asian origin and appear affiliated with that background - through dress or language - you are viewed as less British than if you are of West Indian origin.

There is a really complex interface here between race, language and culture. One of the reasons why I'm one of the few educated British people who voted for Brexit is because I viewed it as deeply racist to accept Freedom Of Movement for European Union citizens (99% of those who arrived were white) which acted to at the same time minimize Commonwealth immigration.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] talked about his experiences when he was excluded as an Under-13 cricketer. It always appalls me that someone like him may have a dual cultural background, but is British in every way, steeped in every cultural influence from Paul Daniels to Duran Duran, whereas Polish immigrants "look" white but have grown up in a different culture in their own country, which they largely remain immersed in after they move to the UK.

If you stopped a dozen Polish or Romanian immigrants in the street and interviewed them about British culture, cuisine, anything, they would clearly be seen to be less "British" than British Pakistanis. But still colour-based prejudice trumps that.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Well deserved Junaids. Solid points made.

 

[Rana]

Top post by a top class poster!

 

[Azzurri]

I enjoy reading [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. He is very concise and articulate in his assessments. However, i disagree with his constant obsession to associate the failure of relatively short fast bowlers with their heights or for that matter categorically rejecting the possibility of a short fast bowler to succeed in modern day cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Thanks everyone for your kind words.

I formed these ideas on a return trip to England in 2007. I was staying in west London and I took my 5 year old son - now a strapping university student - to the parade commemorating the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War.

We were walking through Hammersmith and I saw a bank in which the entire window display was written in Polish. It was the first time I’d really come face to face with how EU Freedom of Movement had led to mass immigration from “white” countries with no cultural ties to the UK, at the expense of Commonwealth immigration.

(One of my best friends at school in Manchester had been Dave Rainford, the quiz genius from TV’s “Eggheads” who died two months ago. He was the only person of West Indian origin in a large private school. But we used to go to Old Trafford together to watch the cricket and he was culturally no different to the rest of us.)

Anyway, the Monday after the parade I was at my sister’s house in Kew. She had the builders in (there’s a prize if you can spot the Inbetweeners reference) and they were all Polish, and all very friendly. I asked them what their views were on a range of things, into which I inserted Freddie Flintoff, Ant and Dec and Cilla Black.

Those three references met a set of blank stares.

I realised then that cricket in England was under major threat, and that the country’s identity was changing in a way in which it didn’t with mass immigration from the Indian subcontinent and the West Indies.

In many ways mass immigration of culturally alien white people has changed Britain far more than non-white Commonwealth immigration did. They are “invisible” but they make the country far more conservative (due to their Eastern Bloc experiences) and they certainly barely develop any interest in cricket.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Thanks everyone for your kind words.

I formed these ideas on a return trip to England in 2007. I was staying in west London and I took my 5 year old son - now a strapping university student - to the parade commemorating the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War.

We were walking through Hammersmith and I saw a bank in which the entire window display was written in Polish. It was the first time I’d really come face to face with how EU Freedom of Movement had led to mass immigration from “white” countries with no cultural ties to the UK, at the expense of Commonwealth immigration.

(One of my best friends at school in Manchester had been Dave Rainford, the quiz genius from TV’s “Eggheads” who died two months ago. He was the only person of West Indian origin in a large private school. But we used to go to Old Trafford together to watch the cricket and he was culturally no different to the rest of us.)

Anyway, the Monday after the parade I was at my sister’s house in Kew. She had the builders in (there’s a prize if you can spot the Inbetweeners reference) and they were all Polish, and all very friendly. I asked them what their views were on a range of things, into which I inserted Freddie Flintoff, Ant and Dec and Cilla Black.

Those three references met a set of blank stares.

I realised then that cricket in England was under major threat, and that the country’s identity was changing in a way in which it didn’t with mass immigration from the Indian subcontinent and the West Indies.

In many ways mass immigration of culturally alien white people has changed Britain far more than non-white Commonwealth immigration did. They are “invisible” but they make the country far more conservative (due to their Eastern Bloc experiences) and they certainly barely develop any interest in cricket.

You can forgive them for their stealing jobs but not knowing cricket...that's just not cricket!

 

[Titan24]

Well deserved. Always enjoy reading [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] perspective as he brings in unconventional angles. Despite debating on few of his points, I think he is one of the finest posters we have.

 

[Hawkeye]

Top post [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. As always. A high quality poster.


Many white Brits would disagree with you though, they'd always prefer a white Polish or Romanian who can't even speak English over a well educated South Asian. Has to do with physical appearance.

 

[sweep_shot]

Congratulations!

One of the best posters here.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Wow. Top post.

It's post like this one I visit PP for. Educative and on the point. Congrats [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

 

[Cric1234]

Very good post Junaids has some good knowledge.

 

[gazza619]

Quality post again Junaid.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Nice post but what he's mentioned is kinda obvious and common knowledge.

 

[big_gamer007]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is one of my favourite posters here. All of his posts are worth reading.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Congrats to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] on the win.

However, I just can't agree with some of the views expressed in the post, especially on the meaning of 'identity'.

I broadly agree that classism is more prevalent today and the wider white population ("the natives", if you will) sees Afro-Caribbean Brits as being more 'British' than British Asians. Within that, since 9/11, there has been a greater focus on British Asians of Pakistani/Bangladeshi ancestry, compared to those of Indian/Sri Lankan ancestry. Anybody can just pick up an edition of the Daily Mail or the Sun to see mild to moderate bigotry on a daily basis. Hence the existence of far right groups/parties such as the English Defence League and Britain First, and the rising popularity of one Tommy Robinson.

It's also true that immigrants from East European tend to skew more conservative than others.

But British Asians are only more culturally aware of British culture because we are now seeing third-fourth generation asian kids (from immigrant stock) who have been through the school system. I'm pretty sure that most asian immigrant families don't indoctrinate themselves in Coronation Street and Alan Partridge the minute they land here, to fit in. Anecdotally speaking, that did not happen with my family.

Speaking specifically as a British asian of Indian-Pakistani descent, most of the previous generation and a lot of the current generation don't go to pubs to try to 'fit in' and seem more British. That doesn't mean we don't have friendships with the natives, because just as we have acclimatised to British Culture, they have acclimatised to immigrant nuances. Hence things such as Asian food becoming a mainstay in the takeaway/restaurant industry and, from an Afro Caribbean POV, 'Grime' becoming a mainstream genre of music.

What's not to say that the children of Eastern Europeans wouldn't have acclimatised like the rest of us?

At the end of the day, as long as a group of people come into a society, follow the laws and just try to earn an honest living and raise their kids, there is no need to 'be more British' for anyone.

Variety truly is the spice of life and voting for Brexit only means trying to go back to an older world that does't exist anymore.

It may be an idealistic view point, but society is stronger when it's different elements are united. That includes forgoing an 'Asian first' mentality that ultimately seeks to differentiate and prioritise one's own people above others. Which in itself opens the doors to bigotry.

 

[Junaids]

Congrats to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] on the win.

However, I just can't agree with some of the views expressed in the post, especially on the meaning of 'identity'.

I broadly agree that classism is more prevalent today and the wider white population ("the natives", if you will) sees Afro-Caribbean Brits as being more 'British' than British Asians. Within that, since 9/11, there has been a greater focus on British Asians of Pakistani/Bangladeshi ancestry, compared to those of Indian/Sri Lankan ancestry. Anybody can just pick up an edition of the Daily Mail or the Sun to see mild to moderate bigotry on a daily basis. Hence the existence of far right groups/parties such as the English Defence League and Britain First, and the rising popularity of one Tommy Robinson.

It's also true that immigrants from East European tend to skew more conservative than others.

But British Asians are only more culturally aware of British culture because we are now seeing third-fourth generation asian kids (from immigrant stock) who have been through the school system. I'm pretty sure that most asian immigrant families don't indoctrinate themselves in Coronation Street and Alan Partridge the minute they land here, to fit in. Anecdotally speaking, that did not happen with my family.

Speaking specifically as a British asian of Indian-Pakistani descent, most of the previous generation and a lot of the current generation don't go to pubs to try to 'fit in' and seem more British. That doesn't mean we don't have friendships with the natives, because just as we have acclimatised to British Culture, they have acclimatised to immigrant nuances. Hence things such as Asian food becoming a mainstay in the takeaway/restaurant industry and, from an Afro Caribbean POV, 'Grime' becoming a mainstream genre of music.

What's not to say that the children of Eastern Europeans wouldn't have acclimatised like the rest of us?

At the end of the day, as long as a group of people come into a society, follow the laws and just try to earn an honest living and raise their kids, there is no need to 'be more British' for anyone.

Variety truly is the spice of life and voting for Brexit only means trying to go back to an older world that does't exist anymore.

It may be an idealistic view point, but society is stronger when it's different elements are united. That includes forgoing an 'Asian first' mentality that ultimately seeks to differentiate and prioritise one's own people above others. Which in itself opens the doors to bigotry.

That’s a great post, even though we disagree.

But I think you have misunderstood my point.

We now watch people oppose imperialistic statues of Rhodes or even Churchill.

But my point is this. Britain has responsibilities to the countries that it colonised. To me, a person from Barbados should be more entitled to work in the UK than one from Bulgaria. A nurse from Trinidad can more easily adapt to work in Birmingham than one from Warsaw.

The West Indian counties still have the education systems and exams that Britain traditionally had, with recognisable GCSE and A level exams.

It saddens me that we closed our doors to Commonwealth people who actually have the same upbringing, yet accepted entirely alien EU people because they were white and wouldn’t attract attention.

And the end point is what [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] described: British boys of Commonwealth extraction getting second class treatment in the country in which they were born and have spent their whole lives.

Cricket is one cultural factor which has bound Britain to the Commonwealth, and the removal of live cricket from British TV coincided with mass immigration from EU countries which don’t share any British cultural heritage or values. And 15 years on, how many people under 40 do you see at international cricket matches in England?