What's new

POTW : Mamoon

MenInG

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Runs
218,123
An excellent comment on another aspect of Misbah-ul-Haq's legacy is this week's POTW - Congratulations to [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...se-Misbah-ul-Haq%92s-most-dangerous-precedent


A lot is written and said about Misbah’s legacy and what it means for Pakistan cricket in the long-term. In my opinion, the most dangerous precedence that Misbah has set with his own example is the notion that age does not matter.

Misbah’s career has ruined the perspectives of PCB, the players and a section of Pakistani fans who have lost the capacity to understand the significance of age-related decline in cricket.

Regardless of the era, the vast majority of the players have retired in their mid to late 30’s regardless of how great they have been.

Gary Sobers played his last Test in 1974 at the age of 38, Botham retired at 37 in 1992, Gavaskar retired at 38 in 1987. I could go on forever.

It is very, very rare for players to play international cricket after their 30s, and in fact a greater number of players have retired before 35 compared to the number of players that have played after their 39th birthday.

Pakistan was not much different before the Misbah era. Miandad overstayed in ODIs, but he actually played his last Test at roughly the same age as Azhar is today.

Most other players like Wasim, Zaheer, Majid, Inzamam, Yousuf, Qadir, Saeed Anwar etc. etc. also retired before their 40th birthday.

Unfortunately, Misbah’s miracle of playing his last Test match at the age of 43 has created this false perception that if you are fit enough, you can easily play till your mid 40’s.

As a result, you have the likes of Azhar Ali claiming at the age of 35 that he still has 5-6 years left in the tank and someone like Hafeez refuses to retire even though he is almost 40 now.

Unfortunately, the PCB has been brain-washed into this mentality as well. They have approved Azhar Ali as captain at an age where they need to hold talks with him over his retirement.

Wasim Khan, the much-revered “professional” from ECB was in England when Cook, England’s record scorer, retired in September 2018 at the age of 33, the same age as Shafiq is today.

The problem with Azhar today is not that he is out of form. The problem is that he is at an age where you lose your ability. He has rapidly declined since his 33rd birthday and Shafiq will suffer the same fate.

It appears that PCB is either unaware of his pitiful returns in the last two years or it doesn’t understand the fact that this is an age-related decline or it doesn’t understand that age-related decline is actually a thing.

Pakistani is rapidly descending towards minnow status, but our inability to understand the concept of age-related decline is actually accelerating our decline.

It is not going to happen, but this is what actually needs to happen. Azhar must be sacked as captain and player with the PCB establishing a few rules:

- No player will be appointed as captain in any format after the of 32, and if such a situation arises, the player should be appointed as captain only on short-term series by series basis, similar to what Ijaz Butt did with Afridi although it was for different reasons.

- Asad Shafiq must be told that he is on his last legs at the age of 33 and he should start thinking about retirement before he is forcefully ousted.

- Haris Sohail has to realize that at the age of 30, he only has 2-3 years left as far as his peak is concerned. Stop wasting starts or you will be replaced by someone who is 5-6 years younger.

- Shan Masood is in the same boat. He has improved and is hard working, but he is actually 30 years old already and older than Root, Smith and Williamson, and just a year younger than Kohli. He has to start performing right now.

- Babar is our star, but at 25, he only has 7-8 golden years left. The time has come for him to make hay when the sun is shining. If he think he has 15 years left in him, he is wrong.

- Sarfraz should be told that at 32-33, he has a very slim chance of making an international comeback.

- Yasir at 33 has probably 1-2 home seasons left and that is it.

- Fawad Alam can feel sorry for himself but at 34, he is not worthy of investing in. He needs to be told in clear terms that he will not play for Pakistan again.

- Imran and Abbas need to be told that they have touched the 30 year mark and if they cannot increase their pace between now and 2021-2022, they will have no international future.

In my opinion, a team needs to have 7 players in their 20s, 2 players in their teens and 2 players in their 30s. This is a standard formula that PCB needs to employ in all three formats. The two teenagers should preferably be fast bowlers.

Overrated teenagers like Shadab, Hasnain and Musa should not be fast-tracked if you have alternatives in their early to mid 20’s. Similarly, players should not be picked in their mid 30’s if you have 24-28 year olds who can do the same job.

This strategy will not make Pakistan a top team. Our days as a big team are done and dusted. However, in the state that we are in, we can only hope for marginal improvements and not make things worse than they are, which is exactly what we are doing by appointing someone as captain at retirement age.
 
Congrats! Is there any other active poster with more POTW awards? Speaks volumes about his quality of posts.
 
When it comes to critical analysis then Sir [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s posts are second to none.. His every post is read by me. He is simply the best, infact better than the best..Kudos to him for giving such excellent views over here.
 
Easily the best poster on PP (both cricket and TP). He goes over the top sometimes with his criticism and hyperboles but the content of his posts is always informative

Well deserved POTW, would like to give a shout out to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] as well who has been saying the same for 2 years.
 
Brilliant post. Well done [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION].
 
Brilliant post excellent summary as to what should be done with our current players. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Also something which [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has been advocating for a long time regarding our older players in our line up
 
I don’t know if it was Mamoon only but I’ve read a similar post with similar thoughts about a year ago.

Either way well expressed. It’s a joke that Asad and Azhar are somehow being expected to take more responsibility when they should be thinking of retirement
 
I don’t know if it was Mamoon only but I’ve read a similar post with similar thoughts about a year ago.

Either way well expressed. It’s a joke that Asad and Azhar are somehow being expected to take more responsibility when they should be thinking of retirement

Must have been [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], who is a top poster as well.
 
Well put. I agree that starting the transformation for the years ahead as early as possible is really important and Pak has been lacking in this regard in last couple of decades. Yes the process shouldnt be abrupt but needs to atleast start when it is necessary so that sudden and big changes dont take place at once rather a smooth transition takes place.
 
Congrats, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] takes the award for a well constructed and high quality presentation but shout out to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] as well who vouched and put forward these ideas for years.
 
An excellent comment on another aspect of Misbah-ul-Haq's legacy is this week's POTW - Congratulations to [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...se-Misbah-ul-Haq%92s-most-dangerous-precedent

"- Imran and Abbas need to be told that they have touched the 30 year mark and if they cannot increase their pace between now and 2021-2022, they will have no international future."


This is nothing but stupidity, are you for real? Increasing pace? Abbas is doing fine, why does he need to increase pace?
 
Thank you for the appreciation, criticism and the hate.
[MENTION=6603]muqarrab[/MENTION]

I think Abbas is terribly slow at the moment. He needs to get his back to the 130s. If he continues to bowl at his current pace, he will not survive for long.
 
Not your biggest fan..but a very good post!
Lets hope, someone, somewhere, tskes note.
 
Erm....how is this POTW material? Misbah's first test squad has an average age of 27.7, rounded up, we can call it 28. That was also the average age of the team in the first test on Australian soil since the end of the Misbah era.

Where are all these ancient cricketers exactly?
 
Well done [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] ji. It is a treat to read your posts.
 
Erm....how is this POTW material? Misbah's first test squad has an average age of 27.7, rounded up, we can call it 28. That was also the average age of the team in the first test on Australian soil since the end of the Misbah era.

Where are all these ancient cricketers exactly?

Misbah was clever by chucking in a couple of youngsters like Musa, Naseem etc and you have Shaheen which brings down the average. But he still couldn't resist his mediocre lovelies like Azhar, Shafiq, Yasir, Imran Khan snr!, Ifti Chacha!

Post isn't just referring to this tour, the likes of Hafeez, Zulfi Baba could be recalled soon, don't think he's dumb enough to bring back Salman Butt though. And in the past he kept playing himself and YK when both past their sell by date.
 
Great post. Over-reliance on unreliable seniors + scared of long term planning with players that have longevity on their side is the main issue with Pakistan cricket I feel.
 
It is a good post. Furthermore, the issue of age fabrication is rampant in Pakistani society. People reducing their age by up to 5 years is very common. So in the Pakistani context, we have to assume that anyone who claims to be 25 is actually 27-28, and perhaps even older. It makes the issue of age-related decline an even more urgent issue in the Pakistani cricket context.

Mods, how about we have a poll on Pakpassion for those who were born and grew up in Pakistan whether their official age is true? The results would be fascinating I am sure.
 
It is a good post. Furthermore, the issue of age fabrication is rampant in Pakistani society. People reducing their age by up to 5 years is very common. So in the Pakistani context, we have to assume that anyone who claims to be 25 is actually 27-28, and perhaps even older. It makes the issue of age-related decline an even more urgent issue in the Pakistani cricket context.

Mods, how about we have a poll on Pakpassion for those who were born and grew up in Pakistan whether their official age is true? The results would be fascinating I am sure.

Well honestly a lot of people do look much older than their real age. I’m 25 but I always looked around 2-3 years older tan my age. Even when I was a teenager. It’s just a genetic thing. Having said that, I’m sure registering wrong age is still a concern and it should be fixed ASAP.
 
Great post from a great poster! I literally have a love hate relationship with his posts, but I must admit that it is him and MMHS where my scroll stops whenever I wanna skim through these threads. Congrats brother!
 
Mods, how about we have a poll on Pakpassion for those who were born and grew up in Pakistan whether their official age is true? The results would be fascinating I am sure.

One for TPS. We'll give it a go.
 
"- Imran and Abbas need to be told that they have touched the 30 year mark and if they cannot increase their pace between now and 2021-2022, they will have no international future."


This is nothing but stupidity, are you for real? Increasing pace? Abbas is doing fine, why does he need to increase pace?
Mohammad Abbas has only taken 7 wickets in his last 5 Test matches.

He has slowed down to the point that he is no longer effective.
 
Erm....how is this POTW material? Misbah's first test squad has an average age of 27.7, rounded up, we can call it 28. That was also the average age of the team in the first test on Australian soil since the end of the Misbah era.

Where are all these ancient cricketers exactly?
The Test before Misbah took over, there were 8 players in the starting eleven in their twenties plus Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz as overage players in their thirties.

Immediately, Misbah stripped out the players in their twenties. His first eleven contained seven overage players in their thirties, just two players in their twenties and two kids in their teens.

Don’t be fooled by average age.

Misbah took a team with 8 players in their peak years and instantly changed it to having 2 players in their peak years.
 
Misbah was clever by chucking in a couple of youngsters like Musa, Naseem etc and you have Shaheen which brings down the average. But he still couldn't resist his mediocre lovelies like Azhar, Shafiq, Yasir, Imran Khan snr!, Ifti Chacha!

Post isn't just referring to this tour, the likes of Hafeez, Zulfi Baba could be recalled soon, don't think he's dumb enough to bring back Salman Butt though. And in the past he kept playing himself and YK when both past their sell by date.

No idea how Zulfiqar would be coming back, where did this come from?
 
The Test before Misbah took over, there were 8 players in the starting eleven in their twenties plus Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz as overage players in their thirties.

Immediately, Misbah stripped out the players in their twenties. His first eleven contained seven overage players in their thirties, just two players in their twenties and two kids in their teens.

Don’t be fooled by average age.

Misbah took a team with 8 players in their peak years and instantly changed it to having 2 players in their peak years.

Who were these players?
 
The Test before Misbah took over, there were 8 players in the starting eleven in their twenties plus Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz as overage players in their thirties.

Immediately, Misbah stripped out the players in their twenties. His first eleven contained seven overage players in their thirties, just two players in their twenties and two kids in their teens.

Don’t be fooled by average age.

Misbah took a team with 8 players in their peak years and instantly changed it to having 2 players in their peak years.

Hasan Ali is injured.
 
Richly deserved, well done [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Perhaps I should ask what is your solution on age fudging?
 
it's not as simple as 8 years left or 7.Some peak early. Some peak late. Physical prime is different to mental prime. If you are good enough you can play. Babar may have 10 years left in him if he works on his fitness. Fitness matters and that's why c.ronaldo is still the best player in football at 35. Fitness.

None of the current players are close to misbah in terms of fitness.
 
Great summary of why the test team is riddled with issues right now. Can always rely on [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] for insightful posts, even if his opinions are controversial to some.
 
it's not as simple as 8 years left or 7.Some peak early. Some peak late. Physical prime is different to mental prime. If you are good enough you can play. Babar may have 10 years left in him if he works on his fitness. Fitness matters and that's why c.ronaldo is still the best player in football at 35. Fitness.

None of the current players are close to misbah in terms of fitness.

No, that is what exactly what needs to change, read the OP again, it is POTW for a reason.
 
His pace has not decreased. He was always a 120-125 km ph bowler. What are you on about?
 
Thank you for the appreciation, criticism and the hate.
[MENTION=6603]muqarrab[/MENTION]

I think Abbas is terribly slow at the moment. He needs to get his back to the 130s. If he continues to bowl at his current pace, he will not survive for long.

When was abbas a 130's bowler?
 
if you are good enough at 35 plus you can still play. results matter.
No, because it’s a team sport and it’s a disaster when several overage players retire simultaneously and leave a large hole.

Like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] says, you can have two players who have had their thirtieth birthday.

So if you want Abid Ali or Fawad Alam you need to drop Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq and Yasir Shah.

That why it’s crazy and irresponsible to omit Sami Aslam and Ehsan Adil but then to load up on oldies.

7 or 8 of the players need to be in their twenties, for every Test.

Which means that if you want to pick Azhar and Shafiq and Naseem, you actually should be forced to choose Sami Aslam and Shadab Khan and Sameen Gul.

That’s basic responsible selection. Balancing the ages and investing in the near future, not wild speculation on Iftikhar and Imran and Musa Khan.
 
"- Imran and Abbas need to be told that they have touched the 30 year mark and if they cannot increase their pace between now and 2021-2022, they will have no international future."


This is nothing but stupidity, are you for real? Increasing pace? Abbas is doing fine, why does he need to increase pace?

You must be watching a different Pakistan team to the one we all watch. Abbas has been exposed and teams have worked him. They have worked out that they can counter his lateral movement (with the ball), if they bat outside their crease.

If he increases his pace by at least 10km/h and maintain his accuracy and skills, he will be a lot more difficult to negotiate.
 
Don't always agree with your comments, but credit where credit is due brilliant analysis. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
Back
Top