PPP joins hands with PML-N to pass 24th amendment to Constitution

True the motive is selfish hence why no comparison with IK who's motive is not for gaining votes but to brain peace in general to Pakistan. As for "the attacks really did stop" I think you went into hibernation after that statement of Shabaz Sharif else you wouldn't say that. Although not a topic in hand but just for your information there have been 22 attacks regularly every year in punjab (one in 2016) killing around 500 people after the SS' statement on 15th March 2010 and the first deadly one was within two months.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/Punjab/datasheet/suicideattack.htm
You're assuming that's IK's motive. So far, his actions suggest otherwise and good intentions don't mean squat unless backed by actions to match. As for the attacks, they did drop drastically after Sharif junior started sucking up to TTP. Maybe you weren't around back then but up until around 2008, there were two to three attacks per month. There's no denying that the figures dropped drastically though they obviously didn't stop entirely since there are many terrorist organizations active in the region, not just TTP and even TTP is an umbrella organization consisting of many smaller constituent groups that don't necessarily see eye to eye on everything.


Ignoring your 'falsafa' about PTI supporters, I think your perception/understanding of IK's politics is just an armchair critic (or knee jerk reaction) influenced by propaganda from self proclaimed liberal print, electronic and social media.

It's in fact you who reduce the notion of extremism and problem of terrorism to either-or equation by thinking that there is no other way of eliminating both except by force. People just don't become extremist or terrorist over night. There is always a history and background with political and social aspects. I won't go into detail about the Psychology (or science) of terrorism. If you are interested you can read a brief article by researchers from a land that is major instigator of extremism in the rest of the world in current times.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/11/terrorism.aspx

Coming back to IK's intention of handling extremism and terrorism, in my opinion there is no better solution for long term. If you care to listen his opinion or check the PTI's policy then you wouldn't be making fun of "funding madrassa with terrorists alumni"...

http://www.dawn.com/news/1266978

Whether PTI/IK achieve anything out of their policy is remained to be seen (hard to implement it across Pakistan without governing at national level). It is interesting that funding of madrassa for reforms is part of National Action Plan of which all parties including military is stake holder, yet it is only IK who is taliban khan and is power hungry. :moyo



...and you saw this hunger for power only because IK being opposition raises issues against gov, does protest and sit-ins? Or do you have any real evidence of his hunger? Was he power hungry between 1996 and 2013? If yes how?
Ah yes, the usual tried and tested "liberal corrupt media etc" argument, except it falls flat on it's face because there's no liberal electronic or social media in Pakistan and a grand total of one liberal publication in the print media so while this 'ohhhh big bad liberal bogieman' argument sells, it has little basis in fact considering how limited the space for liberal discourse is in this borderline fascist state that you are somehow an expert on despite living in the comfort of a secular state.

While we're on the subject of lands that are major instigators of extermism around the world, I live in one and there's enough literature covering the causes of rising extremism in the Pakistani context. One of the main reasons is children being indoctrinated at an early age in schools and madrassas, something his government is actively involved in despite his flowery rhetoric about intersectarian harmony and blasphemy laws. The Dawn story you linked only quotes PTI officials and misses out the part where Sami ul Haq, whose party owns and operates the madrassa, refuted PTI's claims that they agreed to any reforms and made it clear in no uncertain terms that this grant does not buy the provincial government access to the day to day running of the madrassa. I suggest you read NAP because nowhere does it say that funding madrassas for reform is part of the plan. It simply says government to control and keep a check on madrassas, neither of which this grant accomplished. It also doesn't "remain to be seen" whether this produces results. This has been done before and the results are there for all to see. What's that they say about stupidity and expecting different results from the same thing?
 
If Imran Khan isn't power hungry then why has he filled his party with corrupt people to get votes?
 
If Imran Khan isn't power hungry then why has he filled his party with corrupt people to get votes?

This is a difficult pill to swallow for PTI supporters.

It's a fact that PTI is not the party of ideology, it’s mostly consists of former members of various other parties. Several PTI members were former Musharraf supporters. Anyone who supported the military coup or sided with Musharraf during his farce referendum is anti-democracy and only in it for power.

The 2014 Dharna's and what transpired after goes to show that this man has no respect for anyone or anything as long as his agenda is achieved. Surely when people come to a dharna armed with sticks and other weapons one must know that violence will prevail yet he refused to acknowledge it and his aim was chaos and anarchy.

Imran Khan talks of change and wows his followers with absurd promises yet how has he changed politics within his own party? Overwhelming majority of the leaders of the PTI are big feudal lords, businessmen and industrialists. All the main leadership of big capitalist and feudal parties of the country including PML-N, PPP and PTI belongs to the same capitalist and feudal elite. Nearly 200 families are dominating the parliamentary politics in Pakistan. Another 800 families play the role of the junior partners to maintain their dominance in their respective areas.

People need to understand the fact that change will not come with vague and demagogic slogans and Utopian thoughts and that Imran Khan is no revolutionist. He is playing and losing the same game that the likes of Nawaz and Zardari play. He's only in it for the power.
 
This is a difficult pill to swallow for PTI supporters.

It's a fact that PTI is not the party of ideology, it’s mostly consists of former members of various other parties. Several PTI members were former Musharraf supporters. Anyone who supported the military coup or sided with Musharraf during his farce referendum is anti-democracy and only in it for power.

The 2014 Dharna's and what transpired after goes to show that this man has no respect for anyone or anything as long as his agenda is achieved. Surely when people come to a dharna armed with sticks and other weapons one must know that violence will prevail yet he refused to acknowledge it and his aim was chaos and anarchy.

Imran Khan talks of change and wows his followers with absurd promises yet how has he changed politics within his own party? Overwhelming majority of the leaders of the PTI are big feudal lords, businessmen and industrialists. All the main leadership of big capitalist and feudal parties of the country including PML-N, PPP and PTI belongs to the same capitalist and feudal elite. Nearly 200 families are dominating the parliamentary politics in Pakistan. Another 800 families play the role of the junior partners to maintain their dominance in their respective areas.

People need to understand the fact that change will not come with vague and demagogic slogans and Utopian thoughts and that Imran Khan is no revolutionist. He is playing and losing the same game that the likes of Nawaz and Zardari play. He's only in it for the power.

Great summary. And tbh, many PTI supporters are also starting to acknowledge that he is power hungry and will do anything to become PM. But they justify it by saying that the end justifies the means and the end will be good for Pakistan. And that's an opinion which I can understand, although I don't share. But when someone refuses to acknowledge this simple truth, like the khanbakhts on this thread, that's when you know you are in front of a brainwashed bunch
 
If Imran Khan isn't power hungry then why has he filled his party with corrupt people to get votes?

Maryam and her team are desperate to pin something on IK, can you please give her the evidence as to who they are and how they are corrupt? I want these people jailed because anyone that steals from the poor needs to be hanged. Before you tell Maryam, can you let us know what the charges are and if you are aware of these acts, why they haven't been charged( if you know about them, the chances are Nab would also know) because as the PTI are not in power like the Sharifs and AZ they can't blackmail FBR, NAB etc.
 
If Imran Khan isn't power hungry then why has he filled his party with corrupt people to get votes?

PTI isn't in power why doesn't Badshah Salamat arrest these corrupt people and put them in jail?

Nooras tried to pin tax fraud on Jahangir Tareen and got a tight slap on their face from their own FBR.

Logic is too much to expect from simple minded Nooras..
 
PTI isn't in power why doesn't Badshah Salamat arrest these corrupt people and put them in jail?

Nooras tried to pin tax fraud on Jahangir Tareen and got a tight slap on their face from their own FBR.

Logic is too much to expect from simple minded Nooras..

Can you please explain to me why PTI supporters need to resort to insults and become offensive to make a point?

I've seen this a lot in PTI supporters. If you can't discuss a topic while being civil why not just back out of a discussion rather than resorting to such things?
 
Can you please explain to me why PTI supporters need to resort to insults and become offensive to make a point?

I've seen this a lot in PTI supporters. If you can't discuss a topic while being civil why not just back out of a discussion rather than resorting to such things?

Please answer the question that was asked.

Why doesn't the clean, non-power hungry and incorruptible PM sahab arrest and prosecute the worst scums on earth that are part of PTI?

Please tell me I'm dying to know.
 
Please answer the question that was asked.

Why doesn't the clean, non-power hungry and incorruptible PM sahab arrest and prosecute the worst scums on earth that are part of PTI?

Please tell me I'm dying to know.

Don't ask simple questions like that because no Noora on here or on TV has an answer. If the PTI were in power and failed to prosecute thieving politicians and instead talked about corrupt people on TV, i would ask them to resign and jump into a hole for incompetence and criminality.
 
Don't ask simple questions like that because no Noora on here or on TV has an answer. If the PTI were in power and failed to prosecute thieving politicians and instead talked about corrupt people on TV, i would ask them to resign and jump into a hole for incompetence and criminality.

"But but I know he is corrupt but I will still vote for him since I happen to live in a small part of Lahore which has seen massive development under PML-N rule and I don't give a flying fish about the rest of Pakistan"
 
PTI isn't in power why doesn't Badshah Salamat arrest these corrupt people and put them in jail?

Nooras tried to pin tax fraud on Jahangir Tareen and got a tight slap on their face from their own FBR.

Logic is too much to expect from simple minded Nooras..


For the same reason they haven't arrested the corrupt people in PPP or ANP. Or are you going to say that these parties are clean too?
 
Can you please explain to me why PTI supporters need to resort to insults and become offensive to make a point?

I've seen this a lot in PTI supporters. If you can't discuss a topic while being civil why not just back out of a discussion rather than resorting to such things?
Lol rich coming from a pml-n supporter when the nooras have a history of straight up killing opposition party supporters
 
Lol rich coming from a pml-n supporter when the nooras have a history of straight up killing opposition party supporters

A female worker of PMLN was found dead in a male MNA of PMLN todau and instead of asking for a proper of investigation PMLN supporters and social media team is doing full character assasination of that female to defend their MNA and party. Than these guys attack the females of PTI for going in jalsas and dhernas.

http://dunya.com.pk/index.php/dunya-headline/362865_1#.WDtAfuZ97IU
 
A female worker of PMLN was found dead in a male MNA of PMLN todau and instead of asking for a proper of investigation PMLN supporters and social media team is doing full character assasination of that female to defend their MNA and party. Than these guys attack the females of PTI for going in jalsas and dhernas.

http://dunya.com.pk/index.php/dunya-headline/362865_1#.WDtAfuZ97IU


What about the Rahim Yar Khan torcher cell backed by PML N official ?
 
What about the Rahim Yar Khan torcher cell backed by PML N official ?

Nothing new most of the crimes/scandals that come out of punjab are backed by pmln leaders and done under the umbrella of punjab puls...
 
For the same reason they haven't arrested the corrupt people in PPP or ANP. Or are you going to say that these parties are clean too?

No these parties aren't clean either, but isn't it the prerogative of hukamat-e-waqt to arrest each and every culprit?
 
Because corrupt people look out for eachother :najam

The likes of Jahangeer Tareen and SMQ have nothing to worry about, their interests will be safe-guarded by PTI, PPP and PML-N.

So are you as Noora supporter saying that the Sharifs head a mafia state?
 
Noora supporters are like taliban apologists because fo r them the real issue isn't taliban bombing people but the issue is liberals raising the issue of innocents being killed by taliban.

To be a noora supporter you need to throw all your ghairat out of your soul and sell it.
 
Give me a dictator any day of the week over these nooras and bhuttos.
 
Going by what I'm reading here the only hope us sane Pakistanis have is that SC disqualifies Nawaz and the rest of the king's family. Otherwise Nawaz is getting reelected in 2018 and Maryam in 2023. Good luck Pakistan.
 
Going by what I'm reading here the only hope us sane Pakistanis have is that SC disqualifies Nawaz and the rest of the king's family. Otherwise Nawaz is getting reelected in 2018 and Maryam in 2023. Good luck Pakistan.

Of course he is. IK gave up any hope of winning that election years in advance which is why he focused on getting umpire to raise his ungly, dharna politics and disruption. When the leader doesn't believe in himself so it means the supporter won't either. In cricketing terms, Imran Khan has been a negative captain who has given up hope in a tough phase. Had he focused on the 2018 election and making a model province of KP, he could have won. But he just didn't have the fight in him to win it the right way.
 
So are you as Noora supporter saying that the Sharifs head a mafia state?

I know it's tough for khanbakhts to admit that everyone criticizing their dear leader is not a PML-N supporter. I am criticizing Sharifs because I'm not brainwashed into supporting any of these corrupt parties, unlike you with PTI.
 
Of course he is. IK gave up any hope of winning that election years in advance which is why he focused on getting umpire to raise his ungly, dharna politics and disruption. When the leader doesn't believe in himself so it means the supporter won't either. In cricketing terms, Imran Khan has been a negative captain who has given up hope in a tough phase. Had he focused on the 2018 election and making a model province of KP, he could have won. But he just didn't have the fight in him to win it the right way.

KPK is already beating Punjab in every human development index. Not my words but the World Bank.

So Immy made KP a better if not model province as compared to your beloved Punjab in just three short years. Compare that to the Nooras who have been ruling the province for three decades.
 
KPK is already beating Punjab in every human development index. Not my words but the World Bank.

So Immy made KP a better if not model province as compared to your beloved Punjab in just three short years. Compare that to the Nooras who have been ruling the province for three decades.

KP has a higher HDI than Punjab? I'm somehow doubtful of this claim, given how backwards DIK, Swat and Chitral are.
 
I know it's tough for khanbakhts to admit that everyone criticizing their dear leader is not a PML-N supporter. I am criticizing Sharifs because I'm not brainwashed into supporting any of these corrupt parties, unlike you with PTI.

Criticising is healthy but a man who supports a criminal is in law aiding and abetting. And as you my friend have admitted that we live in a mafia state headed by the Sharifs, you are guilty of a crime.
 
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KP has a higher HDI than Punjab? I'm somehow doubtful of this claim, given how backwards DIK, Swat and Chitral are.

That's true actually KP is beating other provinces in many factors including HDI from last 2 years in different surveys.
 

The article is saying that KP is above Punjab in making progress, not in absolute HDI. As KP's HDI was much lower than Punjab and Sindh's at the start of 2013, it means they haven't caught up yet. Still, yes, you're right that KP did make more progress than other provinces. Sadly, this has entirely disappeared from the narrative because PTI itself made the mistake of putting the spotlight on other things, namely how they will lose 2018 election and need to get rid of government before that. Even ARY, the state channel of PTI, doesn't mention such progress, focusing on dharnas and Nawaz.

Thanks.
 
A female worker of PMLN was found dead in a male MNA of PMLN todau and instead of asking for a proper of investigation PMLN supporters and social media team is doing full character assasination of that female to defend their MNA and party. Than these guys attack the females of PTI for going in jalsas and dhernas.

http://dunya.com.pk/index.php/dunya-headline/362865_1#.WDtAfuZ97IU

I think it's too early to say anything as there could be lot more to this story but dead body being found in PMLN MNA's room does raise lot of questions.

The murdered PMLN lady wasn't an ordinary worker either, she posted her picture with Turkish and Pakistan PMs wives on recent tour. Reaction from PMLN supporters is shocking though, their social media is saying that apparently they have heard some bad things about the murdered lady. Now these were the people saying "Hamara dil khoon k aansoo ro raha hai PTI k jalsay main khawateen se badtzmeezi ki wajah se"
 
I think it's too early to say anything as there could be lot more to this story but dead body being found in PMLN MNA's room does raise lot of questions.

The murdered PMLN lady wasn't an ordinary worker either, she posted her picture with Turkish and Pakistan PMs wives on recent tour. Reaction from PMLN supporters is shocking though, their social media is saying that apparently they have heard some bad things about the murdered lady. Now these were the people saying "Hamara dil khoon k aansoo ro raha hai PTI k jalsay main khawateen se badtzmeezi ki wajah se"

They are hypocrites. Whatever wrong she did in her life was her choice (including all those insulting tweets against PTI from her twitter account) but that doesn't mean PMLN supporter should be hiding behind excuses like she had a bad character so it was ok if she died and now we should defend our MNA character.
 
Back to topic, to sum it up the reaction from PMLN declared/undeclared supporters on PMLN/PPP alliance to save Nawaz Sharif is:

- Yes Sharifs are corrupt but PTI has some corrupt people too so it's ok to support Sharifs.
- PTI is likely to bring back Zia's policies so we will continue with party that actually made promises to take Zia's legacy forward.
- Imran is a power hungry person despite the fact that he hasn't earned a penny from politics (in 2 decades) but we will continue to support party who are not power hungry despite the fact that they made deals with ISI to come to power in 80s/90s, made amendments to become PM 3rd time, making amendment to save themsevles from Panama leaks, they have involved entire family (& about 2 dozen relatives) in government and most importantly their wealth has increased 1000 times since they started SERVING PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN.
 
Sharifon Ki Zaban....Jhutoon Ki Dastaan

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x53qjyv" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Back to topic, to sum it up the reaction from PMLN declared/undeclared supporters on PMLN/PPP alliance to save Nawaz Sharif is:

- Yes Sharifs are corrupt but PTI has some corrupt people too so it's ok to support Sharifs.
- PTI is likely to bring back Zia's policies so we will continue with party that actually made promises to take Zia's legacy forward.
- Imran is a power hungry person despite the fact that he hasn't earned a penny from politics (in 2 decades) but we will continue to support party who are not power hungry despite the fact that they made deals with ISI to come to power in 80s/90s, made amendments to become PM 3rd time, making amendment to save themsevles from Panama leaks, they have involved entire family (& about 2 dozen relatives) in government and most importantly their wealth has increased 1000 times since they started SERVING PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN.

Perfect summary...
 
They are hypocrites. Whatever wrong she did in her life was her choice (including all those insulting tweets against PTI from her twitter account) but that doesn't mean PMLN supporter should be hiding behind excuses like she had a bad character so it was ok if she died and now we should defend our MNA character.

Remember another case in Faisalabad in which a girl was raped by 3 sons of PMLN MNA and they spread similar info about her that she had a bad character and after few days, she withdrew her complaint obviously under pressure from PMLN leadership as likes of Rana Sanaullah were involved. If i can recall Sanaullah made negative remarks against the girl's character and said she wanted money.
 
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Remember another case in Faisalabad in which a girl was raped by 3 sons of PMLN MNA and they spread similar info about her that she had a bad character and after few days, she withdrew her complaint obviously under pressure from PMLN leadership as likes of Rana Sanaullah were involved. If i can recall Sanaullah made negative remarks against the girl's character and said she wanted money.

This is nothing new PMLN leaders were exposed many times in Punjab but well they are still angels just a month ago a PMLN MNA was convicted for the murder of 12 people and he was trying to escape remember?

I didn't followed that case what happened to Hamza scandal a few years ago? Was there anything in it?
 
This is nothing new PMLN leaders were exposed many times in Punjab but well they are still angels just a month ago a PMLN MNA was convicted for the murder of 12 people and he was trying to escape remember?

I didn't followed that case what happened to Hamza scandal a few years ago? Was there anything in it?

NOTHING! And no progress on Qasur child rape scandal either, i remember media made so much noise over it for couple of weeks and then absolutely no followup. I think PMLN's mentality is best explained by Khawaja Asif's address in the parliament "Mian sab bas 2 week dain, yeh sab bhool jayeingay" and people do forget quickly.
 
NOTHING! And no progress on Qasur child rape scandal either, i remember media made so much noise over it for couple of weeks and then absolutely no followup. I think PMLN's mentality is best explained by Khawaja Asif's address in the parliament "Mian sab bas 2 week dain, yeh sab bhool jayeingay" and people do forget quickly.

Unfortunately that's true they even have these chotoo gangs in media to make sure headline news go back to old pages quickly.
 
The mental gymnastics from Noora supporters to justify themselves must be really tiring.
 
Lol rich coming from a pml-n supporter when the nooras have a history of straight up killing opposition party supporters

Slog you and I have debated on several political topics. Have you ever seen me resort to insults? I don't get the point of your post just because I support PML-N on various political issues does not mean I condone killing.
 
Please answer the question that was asked.

Why doesn't the clean, non-power hungry and incorruptible PM sahab arrest and prosecute the worst scums on earth that are part of PTI?

Please tell me I'm dying to know.

The answer is simple because there is a lack of concrete evidence. This is why Nawaz and Zardari haven't ever been arrested or persecuted either because there is a lack of evidence which will prove the corruption claims beyond any reasonable doubts in the eyes of the law.
 
The answer is simple because there is a lack of concrete evidence. This is why Nawaz and Zardari haven't ever been arrested or persecuted either because there is a lack of evidence which will prove the corruption claims beyond any reasonable doubts in the eyes of the law.

Are the flats not quite literally concrete evidence, was the Surrey Mansion that AZ owned and denied owning but sold not concrete evidence. It's nonsense argument, you pathetically accuse IK of non existent corruption but this is not evidence in the eyes of the law. A law is only as good as the people enforcing it, and there is a verbal agreement between the the two parties not prosecute each other's corruption.
 
Are the flats not quite literally concrete evidence, was the Surrey Mansion that AZ owned and denied owning but sold not concrete evidence. It's nonsense argument, you pathetically accuse IK of non existent corruption but this is not evidence in the eyes of the law. A law is only as good as the people enforcing it, and there is a verbal agreement between the the two parties not prosecute each other's corruption.

Now we're just going around in circles.

Again, I have no doubt that Nawaz is corrupt but is there a paper trail linking the flats to him? So far, there isn't and due to there being no paper trail linking the flats to Nawaz Sharif the courts do not have concrete evidence.

Accusing someone of something and actually proving it in court are two different things. You accusing Nawaz and Zardari of having such a verbal agreement, even if true, is only that: an accusation. In court you couldn't prove anything nor can the courts act solely based on accusations.

I don't understand your logic and that of Syed. You say, if Imran is corrupt prove it in court and send him to jail. Knowing full well that this will not happen yet, with Nawaz you just outright accuse him of corruption and want him to end up in prison without a trial. Should the rules not be the same for both of them?

If the courts can't find Imran guilty of corruption of tax evasion or whatever then we must proclaim him to be innocent. Yet, the standards for Nawaz are different based entirely on your judgement and understanding.

I completely respect your reasoning and I also support your accusations however, in court it is a completely different ball game.
 
Now we're just going around in circles.

Again, I have no doubt that Nawaz is corrupt but is there a paper trail linking the flats to him? So far, there isn't and due to there being no paper trail linking the flats to Nawaz Sharif the courts do not have concrete evidence.

Accusing someone of something and actually proving it in court are two different things. You accusing Nawaz and Zardari of having such a verbal agreement, even if true, is only that: an accusation. In court you couldn't prove anything nor can the courts act solely based on accusations.

I don't understand your logic and that of Syed. You say, if Imran is corrupt prove it in court and send him to jail. Knowing full well that this will not happen yet, with Nawaz you just outright accuse him of corruption and want him to end up in prison without a trial. Should the rules not be the same for both of them?

If the courts can't find Imran guilty of corruption of tax evasion or whatever then we must proclaim him to be innocent. Yet, the standards for Nawaz are different based entirely on your judgement and understanding.

I completely respect your reasoning and I also support your accusations however, in court it is a completely different ball game.

Firstly, if IK has evaded in taxes in PK he has to pay the price and he has to face the full might of the law. The fact that you conveniently ignored the Surrey Mansion sale is not surprising because you wanted evidence, you were given it but you ignored it. Lets go with your argument that NS`s not on the papers for the flats but his kids were, and his kids were too young to buy them, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out who bought them but apparently that is not enough evidence. The criminality of the Sharifs is only bettered by the criminality of their supporters. As far as the verbal agreement goes, it may not be proved in court as you cant but we know it exists as seen by numerous examples. The younger Sharif threatened to drag AZ through the streets for his corruption but the bigger Sharif has not brought a single case.
 
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