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Promote local coaches: A cost effective solution amid rising international coach expenses

Major

Major

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I see that there is alot of complaining about Shane Watson being hired and the amount of money that is being demanded is too much etc, but coaches like Watson are dealing with 5-6 different franchises. To become the coach of one dedicated team, these guys will have to leave all the other franchises they coach, and will take equivalent money from one team.

Now the foreign coaching route is going to become more expensive as we move forward. I think its time Pakistan should either invest in local coaches as our local coaches dont have that many contracts which will make them expensive, or the option is to go for female coaches as they would be not as expensive.

I dont even mind PCB paying 2-4 carores for a coach, but posters should not be complaining about this, as that is how much the price has gone up for coaches in todays market. There is high demand for them in leagues, so PCB should pay up
 
Well ask your Wasim Bhai first if he could spare some time from the Pavilion Show.
 
Foreign female coaches will have tough time to work in pak even if they forget Abdul razzak kind of statements.what if tomorrow, once rizwan became a captain and he doesn't want to interact with coach in public (even for pr ). A foreign female coach, even though they are tough nuts may have issues to deal with egotistical sc male superstar players.
 
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Pakistani local coaches are too unprofessional and too desi, comfortable with the players, they lack the tactical know how and foresight needed for modern day coaching. We had Saqlain Mushtaq who perhaps had the best coaching qualifications from the ECB and experience working with many international top level teams like England, West Indies, New Zealand. He was a disaster for Pakistan. He could not find a single answer to Ben Duckets ruthless reverse sweeps against our spinners. In contrast India were able to figure out Ben Ducket and England's bazball batting approach after a few test matches.
 
Vikram1989 said:
Foreign female coaches will have tough time to work in pak even if they forget Abdul razzak kind of statements.what if tomorrow, once rizwan became a captain and he doesn't want to interact with coach in public (even for pr ). A foreign female coach, even though they are tough nuts may have issues to deal with egotistical sc male superstar players.
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Multan sultans has 3 female coaches and rizwan the captain of that team.
 
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Rana said:
@Major i would rather hire Umar Akmal to coach Pakistan but not Misbah ul Haq, if that’s the foundation you are trying to lay here.
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i already said, i dont mind paying 3 carores to watson
 
Major said:
i already said, i dont mind paying 3 carores to watson
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Whats the point of giving him so much money when he wants to spend most of his time with his family? PCB should not cater to such demands by any foreign coach.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Whats the point of giving him so much money when he wants to spend most of his time with his family? PCB should not cater to such demands by any foreign coach.
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he did not approach PCB, PCB approached him. So when PCB is approaching him, he cane demand whatever amount he wants
 
Major said:
he did not approach PCB, PCB approached him. So when PCB is approaching him, he cane demand whatever amount he wants
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But PCB should not run after him like nobody else in this world available for the coaching of pakistan team.... Its ok to offer him the coaching role but when you can see he is not interested and making some lame excuses then let him go and find someone else. What's the point of raising your offer crazily?
 
Cricket Warrior said:
But PCB should not run after him like nobody else in this world available for the coaching of pakistan team.... Its ok to offer him the coaching role but when you can see he is not interested and making some lame excuses then let him go and find someone else. What's the point of raising your offer crazily?
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I agree.

PCB needs to advertise the job thats it. ANd sit and see who applies and call them up for an interview.

Man, i think if Dean Jones was alive he would had loved to coach us.
 
Major said:
I agree.

PCB needs to advertise the job thats it. ANd sit and see who applies and call them up for an interview.

Man, i think if Dean Jones was alive he would had loved to coach us.
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Yeah the perfect way to announce any job is to announce it, conduct interviews, and hire whoever becomes more eligible. Simple as that.

True... I would have loved to see Dean Jones coach the Pakistan team. He was incredibly dedicated to his franchise team Islamabad United.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Yeah the perfect way to announce any job is to announce it, conduct interviews, and hire whoever becomes more eligible. Simple as that.

True... I would have loved to see Dean Jones coach the Pakistan team. He was incredibly dedicated to his franchise team Islamabad United.
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Dean Jones was gutted to an extent when he lost out to Mickey Arthur in the coaching race.

After Arthur, he probably would've given it a crack especially as he was coaching in the PSL and liked some of the PAK players.
 
Major said:
I see that there is alot of complaining about Shane Watson being hired and the amount of money that is being demanded is too much etc, but coaches like Watson are dealing with 5-6 different franchises. To become the coach of one dedicated team, these guys will have to leave all the other franchises they coach, and will take equivalent money from one team.

Now the foreign coaching route is going to become more expensive as we move forward. I think its time Pakistan should either invest in local coaches as our local coaches dont have that many contracts which will make them expensive, or the option is to go for female coaches as they would be not as expensive.

I dont even mind PCB paying 2-4 carores for a coach, but posters should not be complaining about this, as that is how much the price has gone up for coaches in todays market. There is high demand for them in leagues, so PCB should pay up
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Which local coach do you have in mind?

Waqar younis, misbah, etc etc have all had terrible track records.
 
The head coach can be local but the batting, fielding and bowling coaches must be foreign. As long as the coaches have a good method then it doens't matter if they are not high profile. As long as they are committed to living in Pakistan and working closely with others at NCA for the duration of their contract.
 
Pakistan has tried from unorthodox to self proclaimed genius as coach, there is a long list from Mohsin Khan, Waqar Younis, Younis Khan, Moyo, Misbah ul Haq , Hafeez, Azhar Mehmood etc
 
No need for Watson to be honest. If PCB wants a foreign coach then they can bring Matthew hayden back as a full time coach. He would be much cheaper than Shane and he already had experience with Pakistan team. Otherwise I do not see any need to hire a foreign coach for that much money. Not Sustainable and will not work IMO.
 
Pakistan is not a minnow country. They have a rich cricketing history. They should have many local options available.

Not sure why they go for expensive foreign coaches (who aren't even experienced coaches).
 
Overpaying a foreign coach to convert 10 rocks into diamonds isn't going to make them diamonds.

Better to hire an unknown entity from abroad.

Less pressure on him; would cost less so even if he is terrible would have an easy out clause to let him go; and best of all even if he keeps the 10 rocks as rocks he wouldn't break them to pebbles like a domestic coach.

Chasing after Watsons and offering unlimited amount of money reeks of unwanted desperation.
 
Have we ever had good desi coaches? Hathurusingha did well for Bangladesh, briefly, some 10 years back. Bharat Arun was a good bowling coach, after being apprentice of Lillee and McGrath for many years in MRF academy.

90% of the good coaches are from SENA countries I reckon. Generally higher IQ, risk taking, a more systematic approach to coaching, more innovation, less corrupt and nepotistic, no regional or class bias. Communication to desi players may be an issue but I would still trust them more than our folks, one can always hire good translators.

Shastri was a good motivator, he left the thinking job to Arun. Mohsin Khan was more famous for sipping chai though he oversaw good results. Maybe the likes of Intikhab Alam and Lalchand Rajput are passable.

If given a choice, go for foreign coaches. Indian cricket will also improve by leaps and bounds if we can get rid of Dravid and his cronies.
 
Vikram1989 said:
Foreign female coaches will have tough time to work in pak even if they forget Abdul razzak kind of statements.what if tomorrow, once rizwan became a captain and he doesn't want to interact with coach in public (even for pr ). A foreign female coach, even though they are tough nuts may have issues to deal with egotistical sc male superstar players.
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PSL has a few female coaches, that too for bowling I believe. Pakistanis have accepted this positive change with open hearts.

When will progressive and liberal India have female coaches for our men teams? When will our women's cricket team get a female coach?
 
Major said:
I see that there is alot of complaining about Shane Watson being hired and the amount of money that is being demanded is too much etc, but coaches like Watson are dealing with 5-6 different franchises. To become the coach of one dedicated team, these guys will have to leave all the other franchises they coach, and will take equivalent money from one team.

Now the foreign coaching route is going to become more expensive as we move forward. I think its time Pakistan should either invest in local coaches as our local coaches dont have that many contracts which will make them expensive, or the option is to go for female coaches as they would be not as expensive.

I dont even mind PCB paying 2-4 carores for a coach, but posters should not be complaining about this, as that is how much the price has gone up for coaches in todays market. There is high demand for them in leagues, so PCB should pay up
Click to expand...

Only people complaining about costs are jealous Pak journalists.

They hounded Wasim Khan, Mickey etc - basic money jealousy.
 
Swashbuckler said:
When will progressive and liberal India have female coaches for our men teams? When will our women's cricket team get a female coach?
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I will like to see successful female coaches for men's team especially in cricket,soccer where they are visible.it will bring a fresh perspective for our so called desi mindsets
 
MenInG said:
Only people complaining about costs are jealous Pak journalists.

They hounded Wasim Khan, Mickey etc - basic money jealousy.
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Cost is not even an issue. PCB makes its own money and can pay these salaries. Infact, by paying a high salary, the next chairman will be careful not to fire the new coach because that would be mean you ahve to pay half the salary in remaining.

PCB is also well within its rights to even ask for funds from the govt if required.
 
mominsaigol said:
Which local coach do you have in mind?

Waqar younis, misbah, etc etc have all had terrible track records.
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there are many qualified local coaches. These dont have to be great players, there are soo many coaches in our system that people are not aware about.

There is Abdur Rehman of Peshawar/Multan and Sajid Shah from KPK.
 
Major said:
there are many qualified local coaches. These dont have to be great players, there are soo many coaches in our system that people are not aware about.

There is Abdur Rehman of Peshawar/Multan and Sajid Shah from KPK.
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Interesting. I agree with you in one aspect, we do not need big names to represent us.
 
Major said:
there are many qualified local coaches. These dont have to be great players, there are soo many coaches in our system that people are not aware about.

There is Abdur Rehman of Peshawar/Multan and Sajid Shah from KPK.
Click to expand...

I agree that great players don't generally make great coaches, I have always maintained that about football as well and it is well proven. But what qualifications do local coaches have? Does Pakistan first class cricket have a respected coaching program which is similar to those you would find in other cricket playing countries? How does one qualify as a coach?
 
Vikram1989 said:
Foreign female coaches will have tough time to work in pak even if they forget Abdul razzak kind of statements.what if tomorrow, once rizwan became a captain and he doesn't want to interact with coach in public (even for pr ). A foreign female coach, even though they are tough nuts may have issues to deal with egotistical sc male superstar players.
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There are more foreign female coaches working in Pakistan cricket than Indian cricket.
 
Mamoon said:
There are more foreign female coaches working in Pakistan cricket than Indian cricket.
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Apologies for not checking.But am really interested what will happen if a female coach takes down a sub continent male superstar.As John Wright,Greg chappel,Kumble etc have explained that these egotistical superstars need a good man management and will not sacrifice their self interests. Working in franchise may be a bit easier as they care about themselves and more welcome to a change.Pcb/Bcci will be filled with egoistic crooks with rigidity.

As you can see indian hockey female coach resigned even after hockey president /ex player helped her.Our sub continental society is too rigid.
 
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Whatever happened to the two English FC coaches who had a stint coaching during the QEA trophy?

We need to chase some solid foreign lesser known coaches and pair them with a big Pakistani figure to take the flack. Follow the franchise model and appoint a local 'mentor' to keep the wolves at bay and handle the scrutiny from the media - someone like Amir Sohail, Miandad, Wasim etc but give the lesser known foreign coach all the power.

Our cricketing establishment and infrastructure doesn't value a coach with no cricketing pedigree so we need to keep them happy too.
 
You can hire the World's top guy and it will make no difference. The system( or lack off) makes it incredibly difficult for PK to become anything decent. Our players come through a terrible system where overaged players dominate age group cricket and then this has a knock on affect on the selection and resource allocation. They don't get to play on good wickets and that creates too many similar players and by the time they adjust they are in their late 20s, early 30s.
My solution is to crack down hard on age faking, pay players much better- triple or quadruple the wages FC players , have 8 FC teams and most importantly have better,more bounceir wickets.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Whatever happened to the two English FC coaches who had a stint coaching during the QEA trophy?

We need to chase some solid foreign lesser known coaches and pair them with a big Pakistani figure to take the flack. Follow the franchise model and appoint a local 'mentor' to keep the wolves at bay and handle the scrutiny from the media - someone like Amir Sohail, Miandad, Wasim etc but give the lesser known foreign coach all the power.

Our cricketing establishment and infrastructure doesn't value a coach with no cricketing pedigree so we need to keep them happy too.
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This is actually a very practical solution. Even lesser known coaches from the UK would have to pass strict coaching qualifications so they would know the basics. Just give them a well paid coaching role and leave the team management to a former Pakistan cricketer like Mohsin Khan or Ramiz.

If anyone thinks that I am being unfair on Pakistan cricketers in saying they don't know the basics, just look at how they take runs. If they make contact with the ball they set off for a run blind, they don't seem to even follow a schoolboy concept of calling yes, no or wait.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I agree that great players don't generally make great coaches, I have always maintained that about football as well and it is well proven. But what qualifications do local coaches have? Does Pakistan first class cricket have a respected coaching program which is similar to those you would find in other cricket playing countries? How does one qualify as a coach?
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Abdur rehman and sajid shah have done alot of work in kpk cricket and they are guys that came from the local system
 
If the decision is to hire a local coach, my vote goes to Saqlain Mushtaq.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
This is actually a very practical solution. Even lesser known coaches from the UK would have to pass strict coaching qualifications so they would know the basics. Just give them a well paid coaching role and leave the team management to a former Pakistan cricketer like Mohsin Khan or Ramiz.

If anyone thinks that I am being unfair on Pakistan cricketers in saying they don't know the basics, just look at how they take runs. If they make contact with the ball they set off for a run blind, they don't seem to even follow a schoolboy concept of calling yes, no or wait.
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If you need to hire a foreign coach to instill basics like that, then Pakistan should stop playing international cricket.
A decent infrastructure, a first class system that actually functions and a coaching pathway from schoolboy to first class representation will address this.

It’s what grown up cricket countries like India, Australia and England do

Pakistan fans are always looking for the next messiah who will transform the fortune of the team — isn’t going to happen, even if the most talented foreign coach is hired.
 
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The only foreign coach I would go for is Matthew Hayden. He knows how to carry a team like Pakistan.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Overpaying a foreign coach to convert 10 rocks into diamonds isn't going to make them diamonds.

Better to hire an unknown entity from abroad.

Less pressure on him; would cost less so even if he is terrible would have an easy out clause to let him go; and best of all even if he keeps the 10 rocks as rocks he wouldn't break them to pebbles like a domestic coach.

Chasing after Watsons and offering unlimited amount of money reeks of unwanted desperation.
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Exactly!!! That's what I am saying all along.
 
Coaches are not going to be effective until you do the following.

Get a good team director who is able to join domestic teams and the international in one synonymous coaching environment. Something like uk county, junior and lions, then the senior teams. Pak need to do the same across many regions.

Develop the high performance centres. Iron out deficiency in techniques and fitness.

Remuneration and policies according to international standards so staff don’t just turn up to enhance their cv and wallet.

Transparency and accountability. Make the person responsible for the results. Let them choose their own back up staff.

This is an enormous undertaking just having a coach won’t make a blind bit of difference.
 
how many coaches we have available in our domestic ciruit who r qualified coaches? Most of them can't even coach local players how will they coach at the international level?
 
Unless the base infrastructure, a proper pathway and professionalism isn’t developed at U-15 level, you can hire any coach in the world - he won’t be able to do anything.

The trick is to fix the basics and invest money in kids, grounds and school cricket.

The way Pakistan has become unliveable - I predict a total demise of our cricket in ten years if drastic measures are not taken to reverse the ship.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
The only foreign coach I would go for is Matthew Hayden. He knows how to carry a team like Pakistan.
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We've tried. He was a mentor in the Saqlain setup I believe. We also had Mickey Arthur for a bit. The foreign guys couldn't even break the RizBar opening partnership with all their knowledge and superior thinking. Local is the way to go
 
Expectations need to be lowered. Can't hire coaches and then fire them if PAK don't make semis or win Test series etc.

It's about marginal improvements at that level.

You need better players than the ones currently being produced . No coach can get extreme results from a player pool with limited talent.
 
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