Proud my ancestors converted

[pillionrider]

If you call giving a patient and detailed explanation of the answer you requested running round in circles, then it's pointless going further. Let's just hurl general criticisms instead. You are clearly hurt by the reality and are striking out in response. Better?

Aye Kaptaan

 

[Slog]

Pak grocery stores are called indo-Pak grocery stores in US. They are never called Pakistani grocery stores.

Because their primary motive is making money...

 

[troodon]

Because their primary motive is making money...

In the process use the name of India which Pakistanis hate to be associated with in real life. But when it comes to money, they become part Indian

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In the process use the name of India which Pakistanis hate to be associated with in real life. But when it comes to money, they become part Indian

Would you like me to explain again how selling in a foreign country works? I thought the McDonalds example in India would have shed some light.

 

[Slog]

In the process use the name of India which Pakistanis hate to be associated with in real life. But when it comes to money, they become part Indian

this is stupidest logic ever

I see a lot of folks who arent of italian backgrond running italian pizza places or serving dishes like calzone et. Doesnt mean anything lol. Its economics. Get in the real world

 

[pillionrider]

this is stupidest logic ever

I see a lot of folks who arent of italian backgrond running italian pizza places or serving dishes like calzone et. Doesnt mean anything lol. Its economics. Get in the real world

It would mean something if these non-Italians loathed Italy/Italians and even despised them often claiming intangible superiority over the Italians. Then my friend, it would mean, Italians get to laugh at them

 

[Slog]

It would mean something if these non-Italians loathed Italy/Italians and even despised them often claiming intangible superiority over the Italians. Then my friend, it would mean, Italians get to laugh at them

yea nah.. Its mostly folks of other european origins who didnt exactly get on well with italians historically..

Indians arent exactly known for a sense of humor so i guess its understandable why you struggle with it

 

[pillionrider]

yea nah.. Its mostly folks of other european origins who didnt exactly get on well with italians historically..

What you talking man?

Indians arent exactly known for a sense of humor so i guess its understandable why you struggle with it

Yeah, it's possible.

I'm not comfortable though, to detail what Pakistanis are Exactly known for on a primarily Pakistani forum. Respect the land and all, you know.

However, one thing I am comfortable with is - laughing at hypocrites

 

[Slog]

What you talking man?


Yeah, it's possible.

I'm not comfortable though, to detail what Pakistanis are Exactly known for on a primarily Pakistani forum. Respect the land and all, you know.

However, one thing I am comfortable with is - laughing at hypocrites

youre still the one here though tsk tsk....

 

[pillionrider]

youre still the one here though tsk tsk....

Tsk tsk made me

Well, I don't have an irrational hatred for Pakistan or Pakistanis, you know, so.....

 

[troodon]

Would you like me to explain again how selling in a foreign country works? I thought the McDonalds example in India would have shed some light.

Using India's name when making money. But when someone calls Pakistani an Indian, they get all hurt.

Please spare me with your economic lectures Kaptain. This is just for people who spew venom against India, but have no shame in using India's name when making a living.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Using India's name when making money. But when someone calls Pakistani an Indian, they get all hurt.

Please spare me with your economic lectures Kaptain. This is just for people who spew venom against India, but have no shame in using India's name when making a living.

Indian food in the UK is not known only as food which comes from India or India the nation being a trademark. It's a gernalistion of food which comes from a certain area, the sub-continent.

The first time a well known British person ate such food was Queen Victoria whose servant Abdul cooked for her. There was no Pakistan then.

Chicken Tikka was invented in Glasgow but we dont need to put a fine print to tell people it's not Indian. You're putting far too much importance to the term 'Indian', it has nothing to do with India as a nation.

 

[troodon]

Indian food in the UK is not known only as food which comes from India or India the nation being a trademark. It's a gernalistion of food which comes from a certain area, the sub-continent.

The first time a well known British person ate such food was Queen Victoria whose servant Abdul cooked for her. There was no Pakistan then.

Chicken Tikka was invented in Glasgow but we dont need to put a fine print to tell people it's not Indian. You're putting far too much importance to the term 'Indian', it has nothing to do with India as a nation.

Could name it, Pak Grocery store. Why call it Indo Pak Grocery store?

Indians don't call their Grocery stores or Restaurants as Indo-Pak.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Could name it, Pak Grocery store. Why call it Indo Pak Grocery store?

Indians don't call their Grocery stores or Restaurants as Indo-Pak.

Grocery stores here in the UK are known as 'Asian shops'. Indians, Pakistani's and even Caribbean people buy their goods from these shops.

However Indians to call themselves as Asians over calling themselves Indians as in the UK they dont have such a great reputation.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Weird thing to say

Think about how you feel about Islam and the culture attached to it. Its obvious over my time here you care about this a lot and fair play, nothing wrong with that.

Lets go back to your ancestors time though, and assume for arguments sake they were Hindu and forcefully converted. Imagine they feel as strongly about their faith and culture as much as you do about yours. They believe in their hearts Hinduism is the true religion and that its way of life is God's will and a ticket to paradise.

Now imagine how they felt when armed invaders entered their town, killed innocents, their friends maybe even some family, then forced them to convert religion and alter their culture, likely banning any expressions of the previous faith and culture under penalty of death. All their beliefs destroyed, their value system disappeared, what they saw as their devotion to a higher being completely destroyed along with potentially their afterlife.

Now imagine that happened to you and I told you your ancestors would say they were "proud" of what you went through and that they didnt regret it. Wouldnt be a very nice feeling would it?

 

[Donal Cozzie]

The past is the past. What happened our ancestors was completely out of our control and is fairly irrelevant in the course of our own lives. There is nothing to be ashamed or proud of because we didnt exist and we're simply the result of their actions. My ancestors were Norman Vikings who invaded Ireland, interspersed wit locals and then fought against the English. I'm not proud or ashamed of it, to be honest I think its kinda cool. But I won't ever say I'm happy or not about what went on because I can never know exactly and never will.

 

[troodon]

Grocery stores here in the UK are known as 'Asian shops'. Indians, Pakistani's and even Caribbean people buy their goods from these shops.

However Indians to call themselves as Asians over calling themselves Indians as in the UK they dont have such a great reputation.

In US, its different. You know its owned by a Pak guy if the store name says Indo-Pak Grocery store.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Weird thing to say

Think about how you feel about Islam and the culture attached to it. Its obvious over my time here you care about this a lot and fair play, nothing wrong with that.

Lets go back to your ancestors time though, and assume for arguments sake they were Hindu and forcefully converted. Imagine they feel as strongly about their faith and culture as much as you do about yours. They believe in their hearts Hinduism is the true religion and that its way of life is God's will and a ticket to paradise.

Now imagine how they felt when armed invaders entered their town, killed innocents, their friends maybe even some family, then forced them to convert religion and alter their culture, likely banning any expressions of the previous faith and culture under penalty of death. All their beliefs destroyed, their value system disappeared, what they saw as their devotion to a higher being completely destroyed along with potentially their afterlife.

Now imagine that happened to you and I told you your ancestors would say they were "proud" of what you went through and that they didnt regret it. Wouldnt be a very nice feeling would it?

Fair point and I can only speak for myself.

They lived in a time where invasions from foreign armies was the norm not the exception. People in those days knew of such risks and many had plans in case this was to take place against them or their communities. I was in Spain last year and visited a Christian fort which was decorated by those who were Muslims but 'forced' to convert to Christianity. What these Moors did was to conceal Islamic words such as 'Allah' in the design work of the building as a form or resistance. They agreed to become Christiains but in their hearts were Muslims all along. If you're belief in God is strong you will never be forced to convert. Even if you do it outwardly to save your life, you will not leave what's in your heart and this is what God judges people on. In Islam we are told, it's fine to denounce your religion if your life is at risk and this principle has been known to Muslims since the first Muslims.

I never said I was proud or happy if they went through suffering. My point was there are Indians who gloat thinking they are still Hindu's but Muslims were forced to convert and this would play on the minds of the Muslims today in this region but as I have said and others have too, we are more than happy were are Muslims, if not we would become Hindu's again but we don't.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Using India's name when making money. But when someone calls Pakistani an Indian, they get all hurt.

Please spare me with your economic lectures Kaptain. This is just for people who spew venom against India, but have no shame in using India's name when making a living.

Not that many Pakistani restaurants actually describe their restaurants as Indian just FYI. The two most famous branches in the UK are probably Lahore Kebab House from the old days, and more recently Akbar's. But the food is still generically referred to as Indian, that is down to English perception rather than Pakistanis aiming to pass it off as Indian in some nefarious design to trick the Brits. I just thought that should be pointed out at some stage in this amusing exchange.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

My point was there are Indians who gloat thinking they are still Hindu's but Muslims were forced to convert and this would play on the minds of the Muslims today in this region but as I have said and others have too, we are more than happy were are Muslims, if not we would become Hindu's again but we don't.

Well I'm not particularly religious, so I am happy to convert to Hinduism if someone can give me a convincing reason to do so. Fire away guys, I'm open minded. Let me see the light.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Well I'm not particularly religious, so I am happy to convert to Hinduism if someone can give me a convincing reason to do so. Fire away guys, I'm open minded. Let me see the light.

Potential reincarnation as a real Captain Rishwat

 

[English August]

Not that many Pakistani restaurants actually describe their restaurants as Indian just FYI. The two most famous branches in the UK are probably Lahore Kebab House from the old days, and more recently Akbar's. But the food is still generically referred to as Indian, that is down to English perception rather than Pakistanis aiming to pass it off as Indian in some nefarious design to trick the Brits. I just thought that should be pointed out at some stage in this amusing exchange.

It's amusing alright, so perhaps time to LOL?!

You're making stuff up as usual. Most Pakistani-owned (and Bangladeshi) restaurants in the foreign lands call themselves Indian. There are a few exceptions but that's about it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's amusing alright, so perhaps time to LOL?!

You're making stuff up as usual. Most Pakistani-owned (and Bangladeshi) restaurants in the foreign lands call themselves Indian. There are a few exceptions but that's about it.

Nothing to be embarrassed about BTW. Perfectly understandable that Pakistanis would want to pass themselves off as Indians.

Why don't you name me some? I've given you two only off the top of my head, but seeing as you are claiming that Pakistani restaurants try to pass themselves off as Indian, you must be able to list a boatload.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Potential reincarnation as a real Captain Rishwat

Been there, done that, I would prefer if I can convert to a Hindu Brahmin if that's not too much to ask.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It's amusing alright, so perhaps time to LOL?!

You're making stuff up as usual. Most Pakistani-owned (and Bangladeshi) restaurants in the foreign lands call themselves Indian. There are a few exceptions but that's about it.

Nothing to be embarrassed about BTW. Perfectly understandable that Pakistanis would want to pass themselves off as Indians.

Pure jokes.

Brick Lane - heard of it? It is a famous street in East London for Bangladeshi food. No one refers to it as Indian, they know it's Bangladeshi, and the nearest it is called to an Indian, is when they use the phrase CURRY!

What are you going to claim next? Pot Noodle is referred to as an Indian cuisine?

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Pure jokes.

Brick Lane - heard of it? It is a famous street in East London for Bangladeshi food. No one refers to it as Indian, they know it's Bangladeshi, and the nearest it is called to an Indian, is when they use the phrase CURRY!

What are you going to claim next? Pot Noodle is referred to as an Indian cuisine?

Cant speak about UK but here he has a point, I've literally never seen a restaurant referred to as Pakistani, even though most are run by Pakistanis. They are normally called Indian and/or Turkish restaurants or kebabhouses.

The odd halal shop will have Pakistani cuisine on it but restaurants and takeaways I've yet to see, even though I know myself the people working there are Pakistani or Afghan.

 

[maverick85]

Technically speaking indo-pakistani is correct as the river Indus runs through the course of pakistan. I would have issues if it was named gangeo-Pakistani. Now that would be an outright lie as east Pakistan is no more.

 

[LastManstanding]

Pure jokes.

Brick Lane - heard of it? It is a famous street in East London for Bangladeshi food. No one refers to it as Indian, they know it's Bangladeshi, and the nearest it is called to an Indian, is when they use the phrase CURRY!

What are you going to claim next? Pot Noodle is referred to as an Indian cuisine?

And the Bangladeshi owned grocery store in brick Lane is named as Taj. You should visit it sometime.

 

[akki]

Well I'm not particularly religious, so I am happy to convert to Hinduism if someone can give me a convincing reason to do so. Fire away guys, I'm open minded. Let me see the light.

Reconvert*

 

[pillionrider]

Been there, done that, I would prefer if I can convert to a Hindu Brahmin if that's not too much to ask.

Yeah, who knows you might be born a Brahmin in your next life. But must warn you, things are not too privileged for Brahmins anymore in India.

Your best bet would be to reborn a cow. You could laze around in traffic, graze all day and fade peacefully into your sunset years in a goshala.

Must warn you though - I do eat beef occasionally. So if I'm reborn human ....

 

[English August]

Why don't you name me some? I've given you two only off the top of my head, but seeing as you are claiming that Pakistani restaurants try to pass themselves off as Indian, you must be able to list a boatload.

Pretty much every Pakistani-owned restaurant in Jackson Heights in Queens, NY and Curry Hills in NYC -- take your pick.

This topic was considered enough to have a thread of its own here on PP: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ants-in-Britain-using-the-term-Indian-cuisine

You can see a lot of irritated Pakistanis acknowledging that Pakistani-owned restaurants call themselves Indian. I'll let you pick your fight with your fellow Pakistanis.

 

[English August]

Cant speak about UK but here he has a point, I've literally never seen a restaurant referred to as Pakistani, even though most are run by Pakistanis. They are normally called Indian and/or Turkish restaurants or kebabhouses.

.

Well, but what do you know, Captain Rishwat wants proof !! Unclear to me why he's irritated. Indians don't mind Pakistanis calling themselves as Indians. So where's the problem!

 

[TM Riddle]

From forced conversions to cheap restaurants. This escalated quickly

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I don't see what's the point of this debate about Pakistani-owned restaurants being advertised as Indian restaurants. Indian's outnumber Pakistani's so the traditional indo-pak cuisine is known amongst foreigners as "Indian food". Nothing for pakistanis to be ashamed about, and nothing for Indians to climb on and claim to be on a moral high ground. Us desis will be able to tell the difference between pakistani and indian cuisines because our taste buds are on steroids and we can discern between the spices and ingredients. Not to mention we have grown up on the food. Foreigners have neither of those advantages.

 

[Varun]

Why don't you name me some? I've given you two only off the top of my head, but seeing as you are claiming that Pakistani restaurants try to pass themselves off as Indian, you must be able to list a boatload.

Never been to the UK, but from friends' accounts we can give you the benefit of the doubt: Pakistani restaurants do have the word 'Pakistani' in them. For example;

Rishwat Palace - Indian (& Pakistani) Cuisine

Or here's one from Bangkok, Thailand - where the flag is put in there, suggesting that it is in no way owned by Indians:

 

[Slog]

Weird thing to say

Think about how you feel about Islam and the culture attached to it. Its obvious over my time here you care about this a lot and fair play, nothing wrong with that.

Lets go back to your ancestors time though, and assume for arguments sake they were Hindu and forcefully converted. Imagine they feel as strongly about their faith and culture as much as you do about yours. They believe in their hearts Hinduism is the true religion and that its way of life is God's will and a ticket to paradise.

Now imagine how they felt when armed invaders entered their town, killed innocents, their friends maybe even some family, then forced them to convert religion and alter their culture, likely banning any expressions of the previous faith and culture under penalty of death. All their beliefs destroyed, their value system disappeared, what they saw as their devotion to a higher being completely destroyed along with potentially their afterlife.

Now imagine that happened to you and I told you your ancestors would say they were "proud" of what you went through and that they didnt regret it. Wouldnt be a very nice feeling would it?

too much 'use of the imagine'

i also believe there is no thing as forced conversion. Some areas in eastern europe were forcefully converted by muslims (ottomans i believe) but islam disappeared as soon as their rule disappeared.

Also Muslim empires (several) ruled Indian regions for long enough that if forced conversions were a state policy these areas would be majority Muslim today. Most of these muslim empires had hindu populations who lived there as Hindus. Many Muslim rulers sanctioned temples etc for the minorities.

Obv Im not claiming that some people werent converted forcibly or that the Muslim rulers were some great, enlightened rulers always but i believe there are lot of exaggerations

Also finally. The conversion rates to Islam esp in what is Pakistan today and north Indan regions was higher or comparable during British rule than earlier couple of centuries. That doesnt follow logically. If there were forced conversions en-masse the rate of conversion to Islam should have pretty much halted after decline of Muslims in the subcontinent as far as being a political force was concerned. That is not the case.

Forced conversions are a myth for a large part (esp post 1526). I do believe many families converted under pressure and to gain benefits such as taxation etc but by standards of those days I wouldnt call it forced

 

[Slog]

Never been to the UK, but from friends' accounts we can give you the benefit of the doubt: Pakistani restaurants do have the word 'Pakistani' in them. For example;

Rishwat Palace - Indian (& Pakistani) Cuisine

Or here's one from Bangkok, Thailand - where the flag is put in there, suggesting that it is in no way owned by Indians:

i still dont understand whats the issue honestly.

Indian cuisine and Pakistani cuisine overlap obv due to historical connections and the number of Indians in many countries is 7-8x the number of Pakistanis so obv it will have a greater market and recall. So simple economic argument plays out.

Ive seen even Nepalis do the same in the US. In America I knew a few Pakistani restaurants in NYC which were exclusively Pakistani and made that clear but outside the top 5-6 major cities where Pak population was insignificant, all desi cuisine restaurants advertised as Indian cuisine regardless of whether they were owned by Indians, Nepalis, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis.

When the term Indian cuisine is used its a reference to the British term for what is called the Indian subcontinent and is shared by all countries in the region. Lol do you think they call themselves that due to a reason other than 'economic'?

 

[R3verse Swing]

There's no issue considering the first thing that comes to an Americans mind when you say Indian, is Native Indians/Red Indians.

The SC falls under the Asian bracket.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Cant speak about UK but here he has a point, I've literally never seen a restaurant referred to as Pakistani, even though most are run by Pakistanis. They are normally called Indian and/or Turkish restaurants or kebabhouses.

The odd halal shop will have Pakistani cuisine on it but restaurants and takeaways I've yet to see, even though I know myself the people working there are Pakistani or Afghan.

When you talk about referring to restaurants as Indian though, isn't that because it's the natives who have always traditionally referred to them as such? It's a bit like how all oriental food used to be referred to as Chinese, only in the last decade or so have these places started to be recognised as Japanese, Korean or Thai.

Basically when these restaurants are taking on the British nomenclature, it's to make it easier for the Brits to identify with the food, and in some cases to avoid being labelled by any prejudiced views they might hold towards that community. I'm sure you can appreciate, a couple of generations ago you wouldn't have got a great reception for Irish pubs which are all the rage these days.

 

[CricketCartoons]

There's no issue considering the first thing that comes to an Americans mind when you say Indian, is Native Indians/Red Indians.

The SC falls under the Asian bracket.

Rubbish. All depends on the context, whether asian means east asians or subcontinental asians. Or indians mean the ones with the dots or the feathers. Context my dear.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pretty much every Pakistani-owned restaurant in Jackson Heights in Queens, NY and Curry Hills in NYC -- take your pick.

This topic was considered enough to have a thread of its own here on PP: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ants-in-Britain-using-the-term-Indian-cuisine

You can see a lot of irritated Pakistanis acknowledging that Pakistani-owned restaurants call themselves Indian. I'll let you pick your fight with your fellow Pakistanis.

I was talking about Britain, I can't claim to be an authority on US Pakistanis. In the UK, the vast majority of Pakistani restuarants have their names based on regions or famous names like Akbar. There are very few that actually have anything to do with India in their official description or brand. But Brits will still often refer to them as Indian restaurants, the same way they refer to all Oriental restaurants as Chinese, although they are getting more savvy about these things by the day as the different communities start asserting themselves.

 

[big_gamer007]

Not that many Pakistani restaurants actually describe their restaurants as Indian just FYI. The two most famous branches in the UK are probably Lahore Kebab House from the old days, and more recently Akbar's. But the food is still generically referred to as Indian, that is down to English perception rather than Pakistanis aiming to pass it off as Indian in some nefarious design to trick the Brits. I just thought that should be pointed out at some stage in this amusing exchange.

In my time in UK all the Pakistani and BD resteraunts pretended to be Indian.. Maybe it’s because India is better known and an average Brit still think of sub continent as Indian or maybe because Indians have a better reputation than Pakistan or BD.. I don’t know but fact is in Swindon, Wales and Edinburgh the resteraunts I went to even if they were owned by Pakistani or BD pretended to be indian..

 

[akki]

too much 'use of the imagine'

i also believe there is no thing as forced conversion. Some areas in eastern europe were forcefully converted by muslims (ottomans i believe) but islam disappeared as soon as their rule disappeared.

Also Muslim empires (several) ruled Indian regions for long enough that if forced conversions were a state policy these areas would be majority Muslim today. Most of these muslim empires had hindu populations who lived there as Hindus. Many Muslim rulers sanctioned temples etc for the minorities.

Obv Im not claiming that some people werent converted forcibly or that the Muslim rulers were some great, enlightened rulers always but i believe there are lot of exaggerations

Also finally. The conversion rates to Islam esp in what is Pakistan today and north Indan regions was higher or comparable during British rule than earlier couple of centuries. That doesnt follow logically. If there were forced conversions en-masse the rate of conversion to Islam should have pretty much halted after decline of Muslims in the subcontinent as far as being a political force was concerned. That is not the case.

Forced conversions are a myth for a large part (esp post 1526). I do believe many families converted under pressure and to gain benefits such as taxation etc but by standards of those days I wouldnt call it forced

Thousands or lakhs of articles written by idependent historians about fored conversions in subcontinent. This is weired logic that if there was forced conversion then why dnt whole subcontinent turned in to islam.you have to give to us that our ancestors did stand against them while many got converted forcefully.If you include bangladesh,india ,pakistan then almost half of the population got converted.
You have to take this in to account as well there were constant battles among different rulers of india. So muslims never got to rule the wholes subcontinent easily. There were marathas or sikhs or others great kings as well who stood against that brutality.

 

[Slog]

Thousands or lakhs of articles written by idependent historians about fored conversions in subcontinent. This is weired logic that if there was forced conversion then why dnt whole subcontinent turned in to islam.you have to give to us that our ancestors did stand against them while many got converted forcefully.If you include bangladesh,india ,pakistan then almost half of the population got converted.
You have to take this in to account as well there were constant battles among different rulers of india. So muslims never got to rule the wholes subcontinent easily. There were marathas or sikhs or others great kings as well who stood against that brutality.

But why didnt rates of conversion to Islam drop dramatically post end of Muslim rule?

 

[akki]

But why didnt rates of conversion to Islam drop dramatically post end of Muslim rule?

You tell me yourself that if someone in pakistan or bangladesh or even in india if muslims get convert to other religion what happens ? Conversions in almost all muslim countries to other religion cannot be even think of. Whereas other religions get converted to islam without much fear though after bjp in india ,it will also not be easy now...but you got the point i guess..still india have freedom that any person can be converted to his or her wish. Whereas in islam that scope is way too little due to known fears.there are other factors as well.
And you example was like if some murderer and looter goes to someone house and he kills and looted few then he cannot be called murdered because if he was murderer he could have and should have killed everyone which he didnt. Quite weired.

 

[Slog]

You tell me yourself that if someone in pakistan or bangladesh or even in india if muslims get convert to other religion what happens ? Conversions in almost all muslim countries to other religion cannot be even think of. Whereas other religions get converted to islam without much fear though after bjp in india ,it will also not be easy now...but you got the point i guess..still india have freedom that any person can be converted to his or her wish. Whereas in islam that scope is way too little due to known fears.there are other factors as well.
And you example was like if some murderer and looter goes to someone house and he kills and looted few then he cannot be called murdered because if he was murderer he could have and should have killed everyone which he didnt. Quite weired.

you are losing it and are flustered.

I asked a simple question.

If conversion to Islam during Muslim rule in India was primarily forced by the Muslim rulers then why didnt the rates of conversion to Islam decline after end of Muslim rule? That would only make sense if the premise of mass forced conversions was factual

 

[CricketCartoons]

you are losing it and are flustered.

I asked a simple question.

If conversion to Islam during Muslim rule in India was primarily forced by the Muslim rulers then why didnt the rates of conversion to Islam decline after end of Muslim rule? That would only make sense if the premise of mass forced conversions was factual

Force is needed for the initial push. Then inertia of motion takes care of the rest. Ball is set rolling.

Question hindus need to ask themselves is why wasn't there enough resistance from hindus after the muslim rule. Instead of fighting the muslims, some idiots fought against the british and went to delhi asking a decrepit coward mughal to be their emperor again. the problem has never been muslims or british, it has always been hindus who provided no resistance even when there was opportunity.

 

[Varun]

i still dont understand whats the issue honestly.

Indian cuisine and Pakistani cuisine overlap obv due to historical connections and the number of Indians in many countries is 7-8x the number of Pakistanis so obv it will have a greater market and recall. So simple economic argument plays out.

Ive seen even Nepalis do the same in the US. In America I knew a few Pakistani restaurants in NYC which were exclusively Pakistani and made that clear but outside the top 5-6 major cities where Pak population was insignificant, all desi cuisine restaurants advertised as Indian cuisine regardless of whether they were owned by Indians, Nepalis, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis.

When the term Indian cuisine is used its a reference to the British term for what is called the Indian subcontinent and is shared by all countries in the region. Lol do you think they call themselves that due to a reason other than 'economic'?

There is no issue really, but [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] was living in denial, so I thought it prudent to bring it up.

 

[akki]

you are losing it and are flustered.

I asked a simple question.

If conversion to Islam during Muslim rule in India was primarily forced by the Muslim rulers then why didnt the rates of conversion to Islam decline after end of Muslim rule? That would only make sense if the premise of mass forced conversions was factual

Didnt you get the answer ?
Let me put it simple for you. For example if someone converts some one to islam , he goes to jannat and gets blessing and nek kaam ,well as per many people . But there is no concept exists in hinduism like this..
2nd if someone gets converted to islam its not easy to reconvert back due to laws exists in many palces and some known fears. And it always has been one way traffic due to this.
The first thing invaders do is to pollute the scriptures and attack the faith ,create rhe doubt n their faith. Caste system was not meant to be what it became. Who knows what it actually was ??so suffered people like some dalits nd ol converted even after islamic rule.
I guess i gave you enough points to think now.

But ylour logic was the most foolish logic i ever heard like if iconversions was forcefully then why didnt whole subcontinent turned in to islamic. Its a insult to great warriors of bhaarat who resisted enough against invasions although bhaarat lost half of land and population meanwhile.

 

[Musakhel]

you are losing it and are flustered.

I asked a simple question.

If conversion to Islam during Muslim rule in India was primarily forced by the Muslim rulers then why didnt the rates of conversion to Islam decline after end of Muslim rule? That would only make sense if the premise of mass forced conversions was factual

Still looking from an answer from Indians why it took muslims until 1880s to become majority in what was British punjab, considering that region was a playground for Muslim invaders from Ghaznavi to Abdali.

 

[English August]

There is no issue really, but [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] was living in denial, so I thought it prudent to bring it up.

Precisely. Captain Rishwat just flat out denied existence of something that every other Indian and Pakistani in this forum is acknowledging.

I really don't care why Pakistani, Bangladesh and Nepali restaurants call themselves Indian -- probably because Brand India is a lot more powerful and acceptable than these other countries. As I said multiple times, there is nothing wrong in trying to associate yourselves with something better.

 

[Varun]

I really don't care why Pakistani, Bangladesh and Nepali restaurants call themselves Indian -- probably because Brand India is a lot more powerful and acceptable than these other countries. As I said multiple times, there is nothing wrong in trying to associate yourselves with something better.

Yep, another reason being that the Naan - Paneer - Pulao stuff is colloquially referred to as 'Indian' cuisine.

 

[Bubby]

Ok, for arguments sake I accept this.

Still fine by me if they forced my ancestors to stop worshipping stones and statues. I've only benefited.

well that is the biggest misconception regarding Hinduism, that we Hindus worship stones and statues, and women were mistreated that time, you see vasant Sena and amprapali were basically what you called escorts in today's time and it's not that they were mistreat they had important role then, also Hinduism has 3 sects,thr one who believes in visible form, the one who believes in invisible form and non believers all three are their in Hinduism,hinduism's very base is if this thing happens why does it happen,how does it happen etc, in Hinduism u have right to question, besides it believes in evolving and is continuing to evolve.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In my time in UK all the Pakistani and BD resteraunts pretended to be Indian.. Maybe it’s because India is better known and an average Brit still think of sub continent as Indian or maybe because Indians have a better reputation than Pakistan or BD.. I don’t know but fact is in Swindon, Wales and Edinburgh the resteraunts I went to even if they were owned by Pakistani or BD pretended to be indian..

As I already said, and you yourself have also suggested, often it's because the average Brit associates all food from the subcontinent as India, it's a generic term much like Chinese food has until recently been used to describe all manner of Oriental food. When you say pretend to be Indian, mostly it's just a case of going along with that to make it easier for the customer. Pakistani restaurants don't usually actually brand the restaurants as Indian themselves, although there will obviously be some exceptions.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is no issue really, but [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] was living in denial, so I thought it prudent to bring it up.

Denial of what? I've given detailed explanations to make my points, if you don't agree with them, you, and your compatriots are quite welcome to take those points individually and contest them rather than make vague statements like he's 'in denial' or 'running round in circles' as someone else did earlier in the thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah, who knows you might be born a Brahmin in your next life. But must warn you, things are not too privileged for Brahmins anymore in India.

Your best bet would be to reborn a cow. You could laze around in traffic, graze all day and fade peacefully into your sunset years in a goshala.

Must warn you though - I do eat beef occasionally. So if I'm reborn human ....

I didn't say I want to wait until I die to (hopefully) become a Brahmin, that doesn't seem like such a good deal. I'm happy to consider becoming a high ranking Hindu in the near future if someone can give me a good reason for rejecting the religion my ancestors were forced to convert to, according to Hinduvta propagation.

 

[Slog]

Still looking from an answer from Indians why it took muslims until 1880s to become majority in what was British punjab, considering that region was a playground for Muslim invaders from Ghaznavi to Abdali.

dont bring up tough questions

 

[Tusker]

you are losing it and are flustered.

I asked a simple question.

If conversion to Islam during Muslim rule in India was primarily forced by the Muslim rulers then why didnt the rates of conversion to Islam decline after end of Muslim rule? That would only make sense if the premise of mass forced conversions was factual

Who said it was only the rulers that did the conversion? For example take a look at Kashmir - which Muslim ruler forced out the Pandits in 1989/90 ?

 

[finalfantasy7]

Has anyone bought the kit on ancestry.com - share the results anyone?

 

[akki]

dont bring up tough questions

When answer has already been given and thousands of articles has been written and anyone can find it. Then it seems as useless to answer again and again.it was the easiest and funniest questions i have answered. Whole world ,historians and even in your shows many times i have heard example of how gajnavai attacked somnath temple 16th times and then finally he won. How great thing isnt it ?matter of proud. But dnt worry i am sure law of nature will balance everything someday.

 

[maverick85]

mughals ruled over subcontinent, current day india covers the largest part of the mughal empire, mughlai food is what an average westerner thinks of when 'indian' food comes to mind. pakistanis eat mughlai cuisine. here i was thinking a large section of indians were trying to distance themselves from mughlai culture. i'd imagine they would advocate daal sabji instead of chicken tikka masala.

 

[troodon]

i still dont understand whats the issue honestly.

Indian cuisine and Pakistani cuisine overlap obv due to historical connections and the number of Indians in many countries is 7-8x the number of Pakistanis so obv it will have a greater market and recall. So simple economic argument plays out.

Ive seen even Nepalis do the same in the US. In America I knew a few Pakistani restaurants in NYC which were exclusively Pakistani and made that clear but outside the top 5-6 major cities where Pak population was insignificant, all desi cuisine restaurants advertised as Indian cuisine regardless of whether they were owned by Indians, Nepalis, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis.

When the term Indian cuisine is used its a reference to the British term for what is called the Indian subcontinent and is shared by all countries in the region. Lol do you think they call themselves that due to a reason other than 'economic'?

The issue is not about Indian cuisine.

Its the blatant use of the word Indian Restaurant.

They could have called it Indian Cuisine and Pakistani Restaurant. But it was too hard I guess for them.

 

[troodon]

But why didnt rates of conversion to Islam drop dramatically post end of Muslim rule?

British did not actively impose Islam and never gave perks to the common Janata (Awam) to convert.

 

[Saeed]

Ancestors of early Muslims didn’t follow Islam either. No practicing Muslim would have a problem with their ancestors reverting to Islam because to her/him they were simply following the footsteps of early Muslims and leaving behind the age of ignorance.

 

[Bubby]

it was shocking for me as i have been for more than 28 years in islamic society and have never heard things like that from any Aalim edin or any elder,Neither i have seen it in any book so far i have read,though the list is very short which i am regreting but will definitely study after my exam is over IA.

Their was a sting operation conducted in Britain in madrasas, which exposed lot of maulvis and how they brainwash children and spread hatred for other religion

https://youtu.be/g-_rBZh8DgI
It was done by BBC

 

[someone21]

I don't see what's the point of this debate about Pakistani-owned restaurants being advertised as Indian restaurants. Indian's outnumber Pakistani's so the traditional indo-pak cuisine is known amongst foreigners as "Indian food". Nothing for pakistanis to be ashamed about, and nothing for Indians to climb on and claim to be on a moral high ground. Us desis will be able to tell the difference between pakistani and indian cuisines because our taste buds are on steroids and we can discern between the spices and ingredients. Not to mention we have grown up on the food. Foreigners have neither of those advantages.

The thing why is Pakistanis ashamed of themselves being called one aboard? Here in this forum, keyboard warriors keep gloating about their Pak nationality, but when aboard, many prefer using South Asians, or even Indians. So there is an embarrassment aboard .

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

The thing why is Pakistanis ashamed of themselves being called one aboard? Here in this forum, keyboard warriors keep gloating about their Pak nationality, but when aboard, many prefer using South Asians, or even Indians. So there is an embarrassment aboard .

I have never come across a Pakistani who would call themselves Indian or any other nationality. There might be a sub-section of the population that lies about it, but I can't imagine it being anything more than a tiny minority.