PTI's flop education reforms - majority of out-of-school children enrolled in KP found fake

[Mamoon]

The KP chief minister was informed by its own agency - Elementary and Secondary Education Foundation (ESEF) - that among 41,000 out-of-school children enrolled in the targeted six districts of the province till 2017, nearly 21,000 students are fake, whereas out of a total of 90 schools established in just one district for the same purpose 70 were found to be ghost.

Under Iqra Farogh-e-Taleem Voucher Scheme (IFTVS), the provincial government was funding millions of rupees to the “fake” students as well as the “ghost” schools from public kitty without conducting any audit.

Since 2014 when the PTI launched this scheme to address the serious of out-of-school children, each student was funded around Rs1100 per month.

The Chief Minister referred the issue to the Provincial Inspection Team, which reportedly also endorsed ESEF’s findings, but surprisingly suspended the officer-MD ESEF Zulfiqar Ahmad- who dug out these wrongs and sought corruption cases against those responsible.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/44...ldren-enrolled-in-kp-found-fake-schools-ghost

After 6 years of exemplary governance in KP, we find out that the majority of the children enrolled in govt. schools were fake, and so were the majority of the newly established schools. Surprisingly, the official who dug out the scandal was suspended.

On the pretext that there should be no interference in executive matters, our otherwise-proactive higher judiciary is now looking the other way. It is incredible how flexible our interpretation of constitutional rules are.

These are the "education reforms" that people were buying into. Along with the BRT disaster, these so-called reforms has proved to be PTI's biggest goof-up. Collectively, both flop projects have resulted in millions and millions of rupees going down the drain.

Not that there has been no corruption in these projects because the millions of rupees have not vanished in thin air and have inevitably entered a few pockets, but as I always say, incompetence is a bigger problem than corruption.

We would have been better off with the officials getting a cut under the table in these projects but ensuring that there are no fake students enrolled in fake schools, and ensuring that the BRT project was completed on time without changing the project plans over and over again because no one knows what is going on.

This will all fall on deaf ears because people will either avoid this issue or will simply deflect it back to PMLN/PPP and their corruption.

Nevertheless, my only aim was to spread awareness and inform people on the blunders of this incompetent government, since most people here are reliant on PTI's social media and other propaganda news that will have you convinced that angels descended from Heaven when PTI formed government in KP in 2013, and we have rivers of milk and honey flowing in-between the billion trees.

 

[IAJ]

This thread has potential

 

[Adijazz1706]

Got my popcorn ready, let's go guys!

 

[Sher Khan]

Mamoon, we know that this government is not all it says it is. They aren't as competent and capable. But whenever imran talks he fills me with hope and optimism. He talks about making Pakistan a green and environmentally friendly country. About eco tourism. About creating jobs. Which previous Pakistan prime minister eve through up global warming and planting trees for a better environment.

He says all the right things we want to hear.

 

[Waseem]

Mamoon, we know that this government is not all it says it is. They aren't as competent and capable. But whenever imran talks he fills me with hope and optimism. He talks about making Pakistan a green and environmentally friendly country. About eco tourism. About creating jobs. Which previous Pakistan prime minister eve through up global warming and planting trees for a better environment.

He says all the right things we want to hear.

Mamoon has already proven that Billion tree project was fake so please ignore all claims made by useless organisations like WWF or IUCN.

Of course every reform made by PTI is fake and everything Imran Khan says is wrong but hey i still voted for PTI.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/44...ldren-enrolled-in-kp-found-fake-schools-ghost

After 6 years of exemplary governance in KP, we find out that the majority of the children enrolled in govt. schools were fake, and so were the majority of the newly established schools. Surprisingly, the official who dug out the scandal was suspended.

On the pretext that there should be no interference in executive matters, our otherwise-proactive higher judiciary is now looking the other way. It is incredible how flexible our interpretation of constitutional rules are.

These are the "education reforms" that people were buying into. Along with the BRT disaster, these so-called reforms has proved to be PTI's biggest goof-up. Collectively, both flop projects have resulted in millions and millions of rupees going down the drain.

Not that there has been no corruption in these projects because the millions of rupees have not vanished in thin air and have inevitably entered a few pockets, but as I always say, incompetence is a bigger problem than corruption.

We would have been better off with the officials getting a cut under the table in these projects but ensuring that there are no fake students enrolled in fake schools, and ensuring that the BRT project was completed on time without changing the project plans over and over again because no one knows what is going on.

This will all fall on deaf ears because people will either avoid this issue or will simply deflect it back to PMLN/PPP and their corruption.

Nevertheless, my only aim was to spread awareness and inform people on the blunders of this incompetent government, since most people here are reliant on PTI's social media and other propaganda news that will have you convinced that angels descended from Heaven when PTI formed government in KP in 2013, and we have rivers of milk and honey flowing in-between the billion trees.

One of the main selling point of Imran Khan and PTI before 2018 Elections was KPK education reforms and record goverment schools enrollment in KPK.


In almost every Jalsa pre election Imran Khan was regurgitating about KPK government schools record enrollment and how finally middle and upper middle class regained trust in Government schools after decades.


Turns out that those were " Fake Enrollments " & " Ghost Schools "



Apologies to PP readers for my Posts praising KPK Schools n Education system. I posted the information I got from PTI and News sources of those times.

 

[DRsohail]

let see what comes out,, this need to be investigated and culprits should be punished, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] this CM has to go, puppet knowing nothing, give us Pervaiz khtak, evenwith corruption allegations he was better.

 

[DRsohail]

One of the main selling point of Imran Khan and PTI before 2018 Elections was KPK education reforms and record goverment schools enrollment in KPK.


In almost every Jalsa pre election Imran Khan was regurgitating about KPK government schools record enrollment and how finally middle and upper middle class regained trust in Government schools after decades.


Turns out that those were " Fake Enrollments " & " Ghost Schools "



Apologies to PP readers for my Posts praising KPK Schools n Education system. I posted the information I got from PTI and News sources of those times.

One thing is far sure , no news agency is reluable,Afterall you have not seen praising me pti govt for health reforms this time.The new cabinet us incompetent.Last tenure was good though.

 

[Extra_Cover]

I’m struggling to understand now how PTI went in with less than one-third majority in 2013 and walked out with more than two-third majority in 2018 in KPK.

 

[DRsohail]

I’m struggling to understand now how PTI went in with less than one-third majority in 2013 and walked out with more than two-third majority in 2018 in KPK.

I am telling you,PTI has delivered in last tenure , though this time i am bit doubtful the reason i mentioned.

 

[Extra_Cover]

I am telling you,PTI has delivered in last tenure , though this time i am bit doubtful the reason i mentioned.

I'm suggesting you to wait, I do understand that cabinet ain't the best but we should show some patience. During its short tenure PTI has tackled the national issues quite well and would definitely address the local/state issues in due time too.

So far PTI has done remarkably on following instances:
1. Tackling immediate economic adverse situation
2. Attracting long term investment opportunities/funding from China, Saudi Arabia and UAE
3. Kartarpur border
4. Hosting KSA prince and hopefully Erdogan soon
5. Dealing with crisis at border during escalation times

The above are all instances where PTI performed well or represented Pakistan's national image in highly positive light. I can already see confidence building up in overseas Pakistanis concerning the future of the country. Long term investments in Pakistan is actually getting quite attractive with each passing date. I'm hopeful that the country would be growing at a steady rate under PTI's governance.

 

[Adijazz1706]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] Cmon guys, I'd like to see a genuine rebuttal if it exists, seems [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has landed a knockout blow on the PTI supporters here

 

[Fineline]

Disappointing from PTI if this is true!

 

[CricVet]

"The KP chief minister was informed by its own agency - Elementary and Secondary Education Foundation (ESEF) - that among 41,000 out-of-school children enrolled in the targeted six districts of the province till 2017, nearly 21,000 students are fake"

Only an idiot/troll would assume/claim that PTI is full of angels. Most people who have voted PTI are HOPING that IN A LONG RUN, Imran would be able to weed out the crooks. He CAN NOT bring angels from heaven to put Pakistan on the right track. Process of elimination is long but, I am very hopeful that as long as we have our TOP leadership honest and faithful to Pakistan, bright future lies ahead of us - Change starts from the top is a well known fact.

 

[zn426]

Disappointing to hear, given it was one of the major platform points.

One would think PTI would have pushed some verification prior to the election so they knew exactly where they stood. This is a project and a step forward, not a political cricket ball.

That said if the corruption has been removed, then that's one key barrier gone. It will require a lot more work to root out incompetence.

 

[Savak]

Would take the OP more seriously if he did the same investigations with regards to PML-N and PPP, but to the contrary he looks up to the artificial Bilawal. Not worth it

 

[Major]

btw shame on you Mamoon for voting for this party.

 

[Pakpak]

btw shame on you Mamoon for voting for this party.

He didn't. It was a cop out.

 

[Mamoon]

btw shame on you Mamoon for voting for this party.

I would be a mistake to justify my decision, but I would probably have not voted for them had this scandal emerged before the election. This is a farce and an unforgivable act of incompetence and negligence. There really is no justification for this goof-up, and even the hardcore PTI supporters are either missing from this thread or have made no attempts to defend this.

Nevertheless, the customary deflection tactics are still at play but frankly, they cannot help themselves on that front. It by now is a reflex and they do not have to actively think about it.

It was also quite easy to get carried away by the euphoria and the cloud of optimism that was hovering over the country back in May. Quite a few people like me succumbed to emotions and I do remember you stating a day after the elections that you wish you had voted for PTI, so perhaps you can understand where I'm coming from.

PTI can cover up these scandals and blunders in the short-term, but in the long-term, they will not be able to hide behind the "we inherited a mess" line of argument forever. People in Peshawar, who showed faith in this inept party long before the rest of the country did, are slowly losing their trust in this government because of the BRT disaster.

If PTI continues to tread on this path which I am sure they will when you look at the people in the cabinet, they will seriously hamper their chances of winning the next election. We must remember that although they are many PTI supporters who worship Imran and would defend him even if he kills innocent children in broad daylight, there are plenty of sane PTI supporters who are capable of critical thinking and are open to objectivity.

PTI is on a high these days because Modi's foolhardiness and IAF's botched attack on Pakistani soil has made Imran look very good, but once this was hysteria is over (which it nearly is), PTI will have to buckle up and ensure that they do not score own goals in the the future like the BRT project and the comical attempt to reform the education system in KP.

 

[Mamoon]

Would take the OP more seriously if he did the same investigations with regards to PML-N and PPP, but to the contrary he looks up to the artificial Bilawal. Not worth it

Investigation? This is a news report. If there are any gaps in this story, PTI should come forward with clarification, which they won't because they know that have messed up. It is the same as the BRT project, which is another feather in the cap of PTI's Naya KP. By opening their mouths, they will simply end up digging holes.

The media also knows better than to pose these questions to Imran directly because there will be repercussions.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">عمران خان گھوسٹ اسکولوں کے خلاف مہم چلاتے تھے، خیبر پختونخوا میں گھوسٹ اسکولوں کے ساتھ ساتھ گھوسٹ طالب علم نکل آئے، مگر عمران خان خاموش ہیں ، نہ کوئی ٹویٹ، نہ کوئی بیان اور نہ ہی کوئی ایکشن۔ <a href="https://t.co/ieaeP5tgH4">pic.twitter.com/ieaeP5tgH4</a></p>— Shahzeb Khanzada (@shazbkhanzdaGEO) <a href="https://twitter.com/shazbkhanzdaGEO/status/1116658391160623105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Pete Rose]

So I haven’t spent a lot of time in timepass section of PP till now.
Half of these stories seem to be disgruntled employees or as usual they miss the point. Even if one is to believe any of these disgruntled employees, the only question worth asking is whether having 40 or 50 thousand new students in schools is worth the cost of an equal number of ghost students.
Compared to this he said she said Chinese whispers of irregularity: there is actual third party data available about ghost schools and ghost students in Sindh and Balochistan. Their governments have had to stop funding.

 

[MosheD]

The media also knows better than to pose these questions to Imran directly because there will be repercussions.

Why is the media so scared in Pakistan to pose questions to the government and military ? Do they lose their license or worse ? - sad to see the people being taken for a ride and placarded with false news and tall claims from official sources

 

[slipcatch]

Why is the media so scared in Pakistan to pose questions to the government and military ? Do they lose their license or worse ? - sad to see the people being taken for a ride and placarded with false news and tall claims from official sources

Lol, you’re a funny dude.

Pakistani media isn’t BJP media.

Try watching it or just click on a video link in this thread.

Stop asking dumb questions to feel better about your preconceived believes.

 

[Mamoon]

Why is the media so scared in Pakistan to pose questions to the government and military ? Do they lose their license or worse ? - sad to see the people being taken for a ride and placarded with false news and tall claims from official sources

Thanks to Musharraf, Pakistani media enjoys considerable freedom of speech and can get away with a lot.

However, it is critical to distinguish between the top tier journalists who are largely untouchable and the less renowned ones who are easily bullied and blackmailed.

The big name journalists with years of experience and millions of followers are among the most influential individuals in the country, and they can pretty much say what they want.

On the other hand, the smaller journalists with very little clout are the ones who are subjected to the blackmailing tactics. Every now and then, you hear about a journalist getting kidnapped and then you rarely hear from him or her again.

 

[Pete Rose]

Why is the media so scared in Pakistan to pose questions to the government and military ? Do they lose their license or worse ? - sad to see the people being taken for a ride and placarded with false news and tall claims from official sources

Cool story bro

 

[MosheD]

Thanks to Musharraf, Pakistani media enjoys considerable freedom of speech and can get away with a lot.

However, it is critical to distinguish between the top tier journalists who are largely untouchable and the less renowned ones who are easily bullied and blackmailed.

The big name journalists with years of experience and millions of followers are among the most influential individuals in the country, and they can pretty much say what they want.

On the other hand, the smaller journalists with very little clout are the ones who are subjected to the blackmailing tactics. Every now and then, you hear about a journalist getting kidnapped and then you rarely hear from him or her again.

Interesting. I assume his popularity has already started declining and would just be a matter of time before big brother decides that he will be made a scapegoat. Bad news from the IMF or FATF blacklist may hasten it.

 

[Mamoon]

PTI blocks move in Provincial Assembly for education foundation scandal probe

The ruling Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf again blocked the opposition’s move in the provincial assembly for probe into financial scam involving millions of rupees in the Elementary and Secondary Education Foundation Khyber Pakhtunkhwa through a special committee.

After holding a detailed discussion on a calling attention notice moved by Awami National Party lawmaker Khushdil Khan advocate on Friday, Deputy Speaker Mahmood Jan, who was in the chair, put it to vote. The house rejected it.

The opposition members later staged a walkout to protest the treasury’s move.

The government had turned down the demand of the opposition during the ongoing session to set up a parliamentary committee to probe the alleged irregularities in the Bus Rapid Transit project.

Khushdil Khan said the ESEF scandal had grabbed headlines, while its MD, Zulfiqar Ahmad, alleged in a memo that a bank fraud took place in the organisation in 2012 and that the defunct Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Ehtesab Commission had filed a corruption reference of Rs116 million in that respect.

The memo said serious irregularities were detected in Rokhana Pakhtunkhwa Taleemi (voucher) programme and the KPEC filed a reference against the corruption of Rs214 million against the deputy MD on Sept 17, 2018.

Khushdil Khan said the ruling PTI’s slogan was ‘corruption-free Pakistan’ and therefore, the government should form a special committee of the house to investigate the matter.

He sought the chair’s ruling on the issue.

Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal member Inayatullah Khan said the government should not protect corrupt people and that it should accept the demand of the opposition to form a parliamentary committee to look into the matter as the ESEF MD had blamed irregularities on the CM adviser and secretary.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1475767/pti-blocks-move-in-pa-for-education-foundation-scandal-probe

Another day, another low for this spectacularly incompetent government. Their entire ideology is based on the notion that corruption is the biggest vice in this country and how their regime will bring an end to it, but here we are. Not only have they been proved to be corrupt, they are also hiding their corruption as well.

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] this is the reality of the party that you support. Incompetent and corrupt to the core. As I always say, incompetence is a bigger issue than corruption, and both PMLN and PPP have proved themselves to be relatively more competent than PTI who are running the country into the ground and cannot even get one project right.

More importantly, they are also massive hypocrites who keep probing into the alleged corruption by other parties but refuse to indulge in self-accountability. Where is the "independent" NAB now?

PTI has no right of lodging cases against other parties as long as they don't come clean themselves first. However, there is reason why PTI have refused to look into this matter and why Imran Khan has been running from his foreign funding case for years. They have skeletons in the closet which will be opened the day they rub the establishment the wrong way.

 

[Bewal Express]

PTI blocks move in Provincial Assembly for education foundation scandal probe



https://www.dawn.com/news/1475767/pti-blocks-move-in-pa-for-education-foundation-scandal-probe

Another day, another low for this spectacularly incompetent government. Their entire ideology is based on the notion that corruption is the biggest vice in this country and how their regime will bring an end to it, but here we are. Not only have they been proved to be corrupt, they are also hiding their corruption as well.

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] this is the reality of the party that you support. Incompetent and corrupt to the core. As I always say, incompetence is a bigger issue than corruption, and both PMLN and PPP have proved themselves to be relatively more competent than PTI who are running the country into the ground and cannot even get one project right.

More importantly, they are also massive hypocrites who keep probing into the alleged corruption by other parties but refuse to indulge in self-accountability. Where is the "independent" NAB now?

PTI has no right of lodging cases against other parties as long as they don't come clean themselves first. However, there is reason why PTI have refused to look into this matter and why Imran Khan has been running from his foreign funding case for years. They have skeletons in the closet which will be opened the day they rub the establishment the wrong way.

You tag me in when you find something but I have tagged you millions of times and you run every time. So get lost and respond to mine before you expect a response from me.

 

[Syed1]

Even if ONE kid went to school because of PTI's efforts that is still more effort than what PPP and PML-N have put on education in their 3 decade long rule.




It is ironic that some "Pakistanis" have an issue with PTI if they are focusing on education. With "Pakistanis" like these who needs enemies.


For them democracy means that their guy should continue ruling like a king, and then his son/daughter should take over after them. Ghulaam mentality.

 

[Pete Rose]

PTI blocks move in Provincial Assembly for education foundation scandal probe



https://www.dawn.com/news/1475767/pti-blocks-move-in-pa-for-education-foundation-scandal-probe

Another day, another low for this spectacularly incompetent government. Their entire ideology is based on the notion that corruption is the biggest vice in this country and how their regime will bring an end to it, but here we are. Not only have they been proved to be corrupt, they are also hiding their corruption as well.

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] this is the reality of the party that you support. Incompetent and corrupt to the core. As I always say, incompetence is a bigger issue than corruption, and both PMLN and PPP have proved themselves to be relatively more competent than PTI who are running the country into the ground and cannot even get one project right.

More importantly, they are also massive hypocrites who keep probing into the alleged corruption by other parties but refuse to indulge in self-accountability. Where is the "independent" NAB now?

PTI has no right of lodging cases against other parties as long as they don't come clean themselves first. However, there is reason why PTI have refused to look into this matter and why Imran Khan has been running from his foreign funding case for years. They have skeletons in the closet which will be opened the day they rub the establishment the wrong way.

Imagine not knowing how parliamentary democracy works. Let the opposition win elections so that they have the power to investigate whoever. Till then while scandal he said she said

 

[Pete Rose]

Even if ONE kid went to school because of PTI's efforts that is still more effort than what PPP and PML-N have put on education in their 3 decade long rule.




It is ironic that some "Pakistanis" have an issue with PTI if they are focusing on education. With "Pakistanis" like these who needs enemies.


For them democracy means that their guy should continue ruling like a king, and then his son/daughter should take over after them. Ghulaam mentality.

- Depending on which news report you look at, the ghost student to real student ratio is 1 to 1. So through this initiative apparently 50,000 additional kids go to school. I would take that outcome.
- the proven instances of ghost schools in Pakistan are in Sindh and Balochistan and both have had their funding pulled because it was actually established that the numbers were up 80% ghost schools.
- to give you an insight how PML world have run a project like this: they would have spent most of the money to build a beautiful hi-tech school with all the features. And that would infect the mind of gullible dupes who think investment in bright shiny unnecessary infrastructure means some real progress has been made. As opposed to finding grass root efforts which impact outcomes better

 

[slipcatch]

Interesting. I assume his popularity has already started declining and would just be a matter of time before big brother decides that he will be made a scapegoat. Bad news from the IMF or FATF blacklist may hasten it.

In which world do you reside in?

 

[slipcatch]

Thanks to Musharraf, Pakistani media enjoys considerable freedom of speech and can get away with a lot.

However, it is critical to distinguish between the top tier journalists who are largely untouchable and the less renowned ones who are easily bullied and blackmailed.

The big name journalists with years of experience and millions of followers are among the most influential individuals in the country, and they can pretty much say what they want.

On the other hand, the smaller journalists with very little clout are the ones who are subjected to the blackmailing tactics. Every now and then, you hear about a journalist getting kidnapped and then you rarely hear from him or her again.

Damn you got us all again by stating the obvious and having one Indian approval to feel good about it.

Mr. Genius, isn't it true all over the world.

 

[slipcatch]

btw shame on you Mamoon for voting for this party.

Should have voted for PPP.

It is quite funny that people from Canada would not vote for any party who has slightly implicated in corruption but the same people would support the corrupt government of Pakistan to save their $$$ in Pakistan and for trolling purpose.

You haven't presented single argument of late that would contribute to constructive discussion or betterment for Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

Imagine not knowing how parliamentary democracy works. Let the opposition win elections so that they have the power to investigate whoever. Till then while scandal he said she said

You have developed a knack of missing the point, and I do hope it is deliberate. It is not about who has the power to investigate. PTI’s manifesto is built on their anti-corruption rhetoric and they have used it as a springboard to come into power. Now that they are in power, they have a moral obligation to come clean and prove that they are different from the other parties.

However, if they continue to hide their own skeletons in the closet, there is no difference between them and PMLN or PPP. They are well within their rights to withhold investigation, but that makes them hypocrites which they are.

 

[Mamoon]

Damn you got us all again by stating the obvious and having one Indian approval to feel good about it.

Mr. Genius, isn't it true all over the world.

You took a portion of my post, clicked on bold and decided to call it an obvious statement, while ignoring the fact that journalists are certainly not kidnapped in every country.

What can I make of this? I think you are the genius one. That is quite a tactic for deflecting the core issue, i.e. the kidnapping of journalists in Pakistan.

 

[Pete Rose]

You have developed a knack of missing the point, and I do hope it is deliberate. It is not about who has the power to investigate. PTI’s manifesto is built on their anti-corruption rhetoric and they have used it as a springboard to come into power. Now that they are in power, they have a moral obligation to come clean and prove that they are different from the other parties.

However, if they continue to hide their own skeletons in the closet, there is no difference between them and PMLN or PPP. They are well within their rights to withhold investigation, but that makes them hypocrites which they are.

I think for a person obsessed with process rather than form, it’s ironic that you don’t want respect the norms of democracy when they don’t suit you. The opposition can accuse PTI of killing Tupac, but it’s not necessary for the government to waste time and resources answering to this accusations. If they blv the government has been allegedly corrupt, let them campaign on it.

 

[Mamoon]

I think for a person obsessed with process rather than form, it’s ironic that you don’t want respect the norms of democracy when they don’t suit you. The opposition can accuse PTI of killing Tupac, but it’s not necessary for the government to waste time and resources answering to this accusations. If they blv the government has been allegedly corrupt, let them campaign on it.

It is necessary for the government whose foundation is built on the promise that they will put an end to corruption and old practices. If they are not interested in leading by example, their rhetoric has no worth.

 

[Pete Rose]

It is necessary for the government whose foundation is built on the promise that they will put an end to corruption and old practices. If they are not interested in leading by example, their rhetoric has no worth.

No it really isn’t. Being accused of something doesn’t make you convicted of the same. The onus is on the accuser. That’s not how governance or democracy works

 

[Savak]

No it really isn’t. Being accused of something doesn’t make you convicted of the same. The onus is on the accuser. That’s not how governance or democracy works

Lol this can work both ways. NS and AZ can state that they are innocent till proven guilty, everyone on the streets know the reality of these two individuals.

 

[Pete Rose]

Lol this can work both ways. NS and AZ can state that they are innocent till proven guilty, everyone on the streets know the reality of these two individuals.

Yes but they will be found guilty only if the army thinks they are becoming a nuisance

 

[Mamoon]

No it really isn’t. Being accused of something doesn’t make you convicted of the same. The onus is on the accuser. That’s not how governance or democracy works

If you are clean and have nothing to hide, you would not want your name to be defamed. If Imran had nothing to hide, he would not be running away from his embezzlement case (the accuser is one of the founding members of PTI) for years, allowing the opposition to use it against him.

Similarly, if PTI had nothing to hide in the disastrous BRT as well as the flop education reforms, they would have been quick to get everything out in the open and clear their name.

In PTI’s case, the onus is not the accuser because they do not have authority to undertake an investigation.

The cases against Imran and PTI will come out in the open 10-15 years from now when the military will have a new mouthpiece, and PTI’s time will be up.

 

[Bewal Express]

If you are clean and have nothing to hide, you would not want your name to be defamed. If Imran had nothing to hide, he would not be running away from his embezzlement case (the accuser is one of the founding members of PTI) for years, allowing the opposition to use it against him.

Similarly, if PTI had nothing to hide in the disastrous BRT as well as the flop education reforms, they would have been quick to get everything out in the open and clear their name.

In PTI’s case, the onus is not the accuser because they do not have authority to undertake an investigation.

The cases against Imran and PTI will come out in the open 10-15 years from now when the military will have a new mouthpiece, and PTI’s time will be up.

According to the ADB The BRT is within budget, on time and to international standards and there was no Corruption. Now we need your sources.

 

[Pete Rose]

If you are clean and have nothing to hide, you would not want your name to be defamed. If Imran had nothing to hide, he would not be running away from his embezzlement case (the accuser is one of the founding members of PTI) for years, allowing the opposition to use it against him.

Similarly, if PTI had nothing to hide in the disastrous BRT as well as the flop education reforms, they would have been quick to get everything out in the open and clear their name.

In PTI’s case, the onus is not the accuser because they do not have authority to undertake an investigation.

The cases against Imran and PTI will come out in the open 10-15 years from now when the military will have a new mouthpiece, and PTI’s time will be up.

That’s a lot of conjecture and not grounded in reality.
As for what happens to the PTI or any party: if they don’t know how to govern they will be thrown out like others before them or after them. To govern you have to find a way to get along with the real sources of power.
It doesn’t really matter to me who the army favors one time or the other.

 

[Pete Rose]

According to the ADB The BRT is within budget, on time and to international standards and there was no Corruption. Now we need your sources.

His sources so far are about writing long paragraphs high on prose and low on facts

 

[Mamoon]

According to the ADB The BRT is within budget, on time and to international standards and there was no Corruption. Now we need your sources.

Time issue has been clarified already. ADB is either unaware or unconcerned with the cheap politics that PTI played over this project.

Every man and his dog knew that Pervez Khattak was spouting rubbish when he claimed in Nov 17 that they project will be completed in 6 months.

He said that to win cheap votes prior to the election and the gullible supporters were in awe.

That fake deadline backfired and they had to give 4 further fake deadlines to save face. Had they been honest about it from day 1 and would have acknowledged that it would take around 2 years, people would have cut them some slack.

As far as the corruption is concerned, they have had to redo the construction on several sites because of their incompetence bad mismanagement. This money did not grow on trees and they have inadvertently entered a few pockets.

PTI can keep a lid on it for now and refuse to look into the matter because they have the power to do so, but this thing will boil over eventually in a few years time. Till then, you can celebrate the myth that BRT is corruption free.

 

[Bewal Express]

His sources so far are about writing long paragraphs high on prose and low on facts

It's interesting that he uses words like Corruption but his only source was the tribune article but when the full report was published by Dawn, it talked about mistakes but no Corruption. The ADB came out and said that the project is not only on time but on budget. So we need him to tell us his sources.

 

[Bewal Express]

Time issue has been clarified already. ADB is either unaware or unconcerned with the cheap politics that PTI played over this project.

Every man and his dog knew that Pervez Khattak was spouting rubbish when he claimed in Nov 17 that they project will be completed in 6 months.

He said that to win cheap votes prior to the election and the gullible supporters were in awe.

That fake deadline backfired and they had to give 4 further fake deadlines to save face. Had they been honest about it from day 1 and would have acknowledged that it would take around 2 years, people would have cut them some slack.

As far as the corruption is concerned, they have had to redo the construction on several sites because of their incompetence bad mismanagement. This money did not grow on trees and they have inadvertently entered a few pockets.

PTI can keep a lid on it for now and refuse to look into the matter because they have the power to do so, but this thing will boil over eventually in a few years time. Till then, you can celebrate the myth that BRT is corruption free.

So they set a deadline that was too ambitious but they are well within international​ norms in terms of budget and time frame. So you first claim falls flat in its face as they always do. The ADB is nothing to do with the PTI and doesn't care, it worries about its money and it's money according to them has been used as such. You are welcome to write to them and make complaint. As far your Corruption claim is concerned, I am still waiting for a source. If there is then I am with you and people need to be charged because unlike you I have been brought up by a poor soldier/ factory worker and halal is in our blood and if people steal off the poor they should be hanged.

 

[slipcatch]

You took a portion of my post, clicked on bold and decided to call it an obvious statement, while ignoring the fact that journalists are certainly not kidnapped in every country.

What can I make of this? I think you are the genius one. That is quite a tactic for deflecting the core issue, i.e. the kidnapping of journalists in Pakistan.

You are the genius.

Highlighted the portion that needed to be corrected.

You made it seem like as if that only happen in Pakistan.

Nothing to deflect, i am well aware of Pakistan's short coming, the difference between your kind and my kind is that we have presented a solution while understanding Pakistan as Pakistan, you haven't, you have resorted to criticize for the sake of the criticism without giving any substantial solution to Pakistan problems.