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PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

KarachiKing said:
thats hearsay and we dont have proof of that so lets no bring that.

But it is established FACT that ever constituency opened so far has 60-70,000 unverified fake votes. And PML-N has used every trick in the book to stop the other constituencies from being opened by getting stay orders from courts. There is proff of that and the Interior Minister from PML-N has also said that there are thousands of bogus votes in each constituency.

The point is not that PTI didnt win the election or PML-N won through rigging. Point is that why should we accept a government which was not democratically elected but still continues to masquerade as such.

I don't see [MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=14431]blinding light[/MENTION] or [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] replying to this
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We are going in circles now.

I can only speak for myself - I don't believe that usurping an elected democratic government in this fasion (irrespective of rigging) is the solution. Sets a very wrong precedence.

How many elected governments have completed their terms in Pakistan?
 
KarachiKing said:
thats hearsay and we dont have proof of that so lets no bring that.
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I did say I'm telling that on oath. I try to be as less biased as I can, in fact I even posted above that PTI would've only won 60 seats at most if there was no rigging against them.
 
Mamoon said:
We are going in circles now.

I can only speak for myself - I don't believe that usurping an elected democratic government in this fasion (irrespective of rigging) is the solution. Sets a very wrong precedence.

How many elected governments have completed their terms in Pakistan?
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Thats the problem. It is not a democratically elected government. That much is established.

Its just another dictatorship but only masquerades as an elected government.

PML-N did the same mistake PPP did in '77. They would have prolly won regardless but would have needed some coalition partners but in their greed of 2/3rds majority they have ended up with this problem which will keep coming back. And Mian Sahan is just not as smart as Zardari either to survive 5 years.

At this point with 2/3rds majority in the rigged parliament, this is no different than a dictatorship as technically PML-N doesnt need to take anyone's opinion into account when making decisions
 
And I might be up for a revolution if its driven by honest and genuine people, not Sheikh Rasheed the chief crook and lord of lotas in Pakistan history.

When the likes of Sheikh Rasheed are part of it, such revolution belongs in the garbage.
 
Its officially a democratic government and that is what matters. Let them complete their term.

Pakistan is not in a position for such large-scale instability. I struggle to understand what will happen if Nawaz resigns and Imran comes in power.
 
Mamoon said:
And I might be up for a revolution if its driven by honest and genuine people, not Sheikh Rasheed the
chief crook and lord of lotas in Pakistan history.

When the likes of Sheikh Rasheed are part of it, such revolution belongs in the garbage.
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And now we habe saints in power.
really you guys are ao focussed on pti and blind om the rest..
 
Mamoon said:
Its officially a democratic government and that is w
hat matters. Let them complete their term.

Pakistan is not in a position for such large-scale instability. I struggle to understand what will happen if Nawaz resigns and Imran comes in power.
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Go ahead...thats what is being said all the time.. lets wait.

wait karo aur karo.
every new born kid in pak is getting into more amd more debt.
 
The saints are what they are, they are not blowing the trumpet of naya Pakistan.
 
Naya Pakistan, but same old faces that have leeched the country. Please spare me.
 
Are you telling me that Sheikh Rasheed has and will change? seriously?
 
My answer? Pakistani politicians don't and that's the tragedy of this 'revolution'.

Around 75-80% of the people in PTI don't want naya Pakistan and are with Imran simply it's 'best for business'. They are not with Imran because they want change; they are with him because working for PTI is a better prospect these days than working for PML-N and PPP.

Most of them win elections in their halka irrespective of whom they stand for and thus, electoral reforms actually don't suit them. You'd be naive to think that someone like Pervez Khattak is fussed about the whole election process.

There is no loyalty in these people and they will jump ship if it's for their betterment. This is where Imran lost the plot in the first place - he has hired the same old faces from other parties, put red and green paint on them and has slapped them with the tabdeeli and naya Pakistan tag which is quite laughable.
 
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KarachiKing said:
thats hearsay and we dont have proof of that so lets no bring that.

But it is established FACT that ever constituency opened so far has 60-70,000 unverified fake votes. And PML-N has used every trick in the book to stop the other constituencies from being opened by getting stay orders from courts. There is proff of that and the Interior Minister from PML-N has also said that there are thousands of bogus votes in each constituency.

The point is not that PTI didnt win the election or PML-N won through rigging. Point is that why should we accept a government which was not democratically elected but still continues to masquerade as such.

I don't see [MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=14431]blinding light[/MENTION] or [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] replying to this
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[MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] waiting for your reply!
 
Why was Mohammed Aamir banned for bowling a no-ball ? Because it brought credibility of whole game into question.

If a single constituency vote has been rigged it also brings into question the whole concept of 'Democratic' rule.

There is no backing down from this. Nawaz and the whole corrupt Establishment deserves to be wiped away. They are Mazhar Majeed, Butt and Asif of corruption.
 
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Mamoon said:
Its officially a democratic government and that is what matters. Let them complete their term.

Pakistan is not in a position for such large-scale instability. I struggle to understand what will happen if Nawaz resigns and Imran comes in power.
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what makes a govt officialy democratic btw?

Were Saddam Hussein's or Mubarak's or even Soviet governments officially democratic as they also came through elections
 
KarachiKing said:
^ Worst is how they simply dont reply to questions which they dont have any answer to
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Few of them are genuinely trying to come with an argument. The rest are either trolls or have the mindset "everyone is supporting Imran Khan. I'm not a sheep. I actually think... and I'm different than others".
 
Badsha said:
Showing their intellectual level them two.
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Hard to take someone serious when he says nicotine is not addictive. lol

And this malikmohsin is a tool. He wished death of all pti supporters in a terrorist attack.
 
Noora420 said:
Mamoon and MalikMohsin posts in this thread are appalling to say the least.
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What else do you expect from a 22 year old "armchair expert of the world"... Its beauty of youth that you speak with your heart...

The more you age, the more intellect & reasoning jumps into equation. Trust me, the same Mamoon, when he wouldd read his posts 10 years down the line, he will be highly surprised himself :)

So my best advice is... Always enjoy posts from such agegroup, and argue less :)
 
cricwiz said:
What else do you expect from a 22 year old "armchair expert of the world"... Its beauty of youth that you speak with your heart...

The more you age, the more intellect & reasoning jumps into equation. Trust me, the same Mamoon, when he wouldd read his posts 10 years down the line, he will be highly surprised himself :)

So my best advice is... Always enjoy posts from such agegroup, and argue less :)
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Plus it's in nature of some people to argue for the sake of argument, because of their ego and their personal strong likes and dislikes.

Simply put they're too stubborn to admit others valid point/points because it hurts their ego.
 
asyed said:
Plus it's in nature of some people to argue for the sake of argument, because of their ego and their personal strong likes and dislikes.

Simply put they're too stubborn to admit others valid point/points because it hurts their ego.
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in short they are attention seekers :P
 
I dont know why people take Mamoon seriously. If you have a statue of a man, certified, then everyone will say hey that's a man. Except Mamoon. Who will deliberately try and be hip and go against the grain and say 'that's a woman'. It makes him look like a comedy figure if he wasnt already.

Blinding light and saadibaba (saadi who I had a lot of respect for) are like Bilaawal (who's been taught one line democracy is the best revenge), they keep using the same line 'oh I have already addressed this so many times' to make them appear somehow intellectually superior, when infact they're recycling the same garbage without reading anything addressed to them.
 
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asyed said:
Plus it's in nature of some people to argue for the sake of argument, because of their ego and their personal strong likes and dislikes.

Simply put they're too stubborn to admit others valid point/points because it hurts their ego.
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This.

Never get a spouse/friend like that. They just love to argue. They don't understand the art of conversation/argument and accepting the points of others.


Mystrey said:
I dont know why people take Mamoon seriously. If you have a statue of a man, certified, then everyone will say hey that's a man. Except Mamoon. Who will deliberately try and be hip and go against the grain and say 'that's a woman'. It makes him look like a comedy figure if he wasnt already.

Blinding light and saadibaba (saadi who I had a lot of respect for) are like Bilaawal (who's been taught one line democracy is the best revenge), they keep using the same line 'oh I have already addressed this so many times' to make them appear somehow intellectually superior, when infact they're recycling the same garbage without reading anything addressed to them.
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The bold part is true for many of the people who are anti Imran for no reason. I disagree with your assesment of SaadiBaba though. Compared to someone like Mamoon he has a lot of knowledge, probably even more than me as I believe he's older than I am. The thing with SaadiBaba is that he has a different opinion and outlook than I do. That doesn't really bother me since he reads/makes references to articles etc. Mamoon and MalikMohsin should learn from him. Both of them are clowns to be honest and shouldn't be given much attention.
 
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Indiafan said:
As usual not one single point of rebuttal against the points raised but just going by who is saying it. Seems to be usual with many PTI supporter. Anyone who raises any valid points must be pro-corruption, pro-PMNL, pro-Sharif. That's the gist of their replies.
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MalikMohsin said:
Pakistan's political path: Two steps back | The Economist


IMRAN KHAN, a former star cricketer turned politician, is overly fond of cricketing metaphors. For the past six days he has delivered speeches peppered with corny references to the sport, to cheers from the thousands of followers he has protesting on the streets of Pakistan’s capital.

Unfortunately for his own role in the metaphor between sport and politics, Mr Khan lacks a certain basic level of respect for the umpire. Having failed to win last year’s election Mr Khan, the leader of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party (PTI), is determined to have the result overturned. He makes his case on claims of massive “electoral match-fixing”—which have not been supported by independent observers.

Undeterred, over the past week Mr Khan led a slow-moving convoy from Lahore to Islamabad. He and his procession crawled along their 300km course without picking up the kind of throngs he had been hoping to find. In Islamabad Mr Khan’s stalwarts began a long sit-in on one of the capital’s long avenues. They heard their hero repeat his demand for the resignation of prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, who leads the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) and controls an overwhelming majority in parliament.

Pakistan’s commentariat was unimpressed, with many pundits declaring the whole thing a flop because Mr Khan failed to get anywhere near the 1m people he had rashly predicted. While the crowd has ebbed and flowed as the monsoon rains have come and gone, it is generally thought to have peaked in size at around 20,000. Whatever the numbers, he has been outdone by Tahir ul-Qadri, a Canada-based cleric with a devoted following. Mr ul-Qadri is running a parallel demonstration demanding a revolution that will lead to an entirely new political order. In their aims the crowds have much in common, but their comparison in numbers is not flattering to the leader who claims to have won a national election.

Mr Khan will probably remain a national hero to many Pakistanis regardless of their politics. But he has attracted an unusual degree of public scorn after using his pulpit on Sunday night to call for a taxation strike. In a country where tax evasion is already rampant, he suggested Mr Sharif could be forced to step down within just 48 hours, if only enough people refused to pay their taxes and utility bills.

The political drama has proved a great distraction from other crises besetting the nation. On August 14th commando teams of Pakistani Taliban fighters attacked two separate military installations in the restive province of Baluchistan, killing 13 security forces. On August 18th the new government of India, led by Narendra Modi, signalled a tough new line when it cancelled high-level talks that had been planned between the two countries. The Indians were protesting against a meeting that Pakistan’s high commissioner had with Kashmiri separatists in New Delhi.

Mr Sharif is apparently unwilling to help Mr Khan back down from his extreme demands. And so the PTI leader doubled down, announcing that all of his party’s 34 parliamentarians would quit their seats in protest. The PTI members of the country’s four provincial assemblies will also resign—but not those in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, where the party controls the government—which is prompting accusations of hypocrisy.

To increase the pressure on the streets, Mr Khan ordered his youthful supporters to push into Islamabad’s sensitive “Red Zone” of government buildings and embassies. By the early hours of Wednesday morning, August 20th, thousands of Mr Khan’s and Mr Qadri’s supporters had removed barricades, pushed past police and camped themselves directly in front of the parliament building, with the two leaders repeating their demands for the removal of Mr Sharif.

While it still looks unlikely they will get their wish, the standoff has created perfect conditions for the army to reassert its traditional role, wielding the same power which Mr Sharif has used his first year in power to try and reduce. The fact that the army, which until Wednesday had remained silent on the matter, rushed to call for “patience” from all the “stakeholders” involved in the dispute has led many to conclude the whole affair was secretly orchestrated by the generals.

The military establishment has been anxious to regain its authority over foreign and defence policy, which was once unquestioned. The generals have been at loggerheads over Mr Sharif’s impassioned desire for warmer relations with India; Pakistan’s overgrown army exists largely to confront the giant neighbour. It is also unclear whether the army can tolerate Mr Sharif’s wish to drop the country’s decades-old policy of interfering in Afghanistan.

Whether or not Mr Sharif survives, coup-prone Pakistan’s strides towards greater democracy have been severely damaged. The 2013 election was historic for being the first time the country had ever experienced the peaceful transition of power after a democratically elected government survived its full five-year term for the first time. It only made it that long because Mr Sharif’s PML-N, then in opposition, refused to use street power to bring it down early.

It is not only Pakistan’s recent progress that is at stake. Given the evidence of growing public discontent with his haphazard campaign, Mr Khan also risks undermining his own chances of building on last year’s electoral success. In choosing to play what he has described as his “final match” against Mr Sharif, Mr Khan could end up losing everything he built for himself too.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/08/pakistans-political-path
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Paragraph 1: You can tell that the writer does not like Imran Khan otherwise he would have mentioned that Imran Khan is regarded as one of the best captains in cricket history. To his credit he brought together a team full of in-fighting and groupism together to play as one. A team which includes players who later were involved in match-fixing but while he was captain no one dared to do anything of this sorts. He was a leader of 10 very talented individuals, thats his CV, what does Nawaz Sharif have on his CV "Brought in by way of nepotism to serve a dictator and obviously get our steel mills backs"

Paragraph 3: How does he know "many pundits consider it a flop"? I can name as many who think that Imran Khan has brought those sections of society in to politics who before this, used to consider politics a dirty business and wouldn't bother to vote. Imran Khan has given the youth of Pakistan hope. As far as whose crowd is bigger, did this writer personally count each and every single person in the protest? So again a paragraph full of nonsense.

Paragraph 4: Call was made for civil disobedience until Nawaz Sharif steps down. Not once did he say that he will step down in 48 hours because of it. So another paragraph which is factually incorrect or a deliberate lie.

Paragraph 5: The army is handling all these issues perfectly fine, no attention is diverted from anywhere. The writer should stop using scare tactics. Just because army is carrying out an operation somewhere does not mean that people should simply forgo their civil and human rights! Elections were rigged, 22 people were killed in Lahore on State orders and no army operation or Mr. India not talking to us will stop us from getting justice on both these issues. Good on Pakistani High Commissioner that he met with Kashmiri separatists, India can spin on our middle finger!

Paragraph 6: Again the writer shows that he/she does not understand how things work in Pakistan. There is no local bodies system in Pakistan at this moment in time. Development funds are released to MPAs (Member of Provincial Assembly) when they make an application that X works need to be carried out in their constituency. Now in Punjab, PTI MPAs applications have been but on back burners and PMLN MPAs are getting funds to carry out works in their constituency so as to create an impression that PTI MPAs did nothing for their constituencies. Same in Sindh. Therefore, it isn't hypocrisy, it is a message to the Status-Quo that their cheap tricks won't work.

Paragraph 7: Again, the writer should look up Pakistan's recent history. All demonstrations and dharnas have always taken place in Islamabad's Red Zone. So again, I don't see how this is relevant.

Remaining Paragraphs: Why does Nawaz Sharif want better relationships with India? India is illegally occupying Kashmir, India is building illegal dams, India calls Pakistan a terrorist hot bed, it accuses Pakistan of everything wrong in India etc. Why does he want good relations with India? Why does he want us not to interfere in Afghanistan when its an open secret that India is active in Afghanistan?

Bottom line is, Nawaz is like a hen that feeds in Pakistan but lays eggs for India, Saudi Arabia and America.

The above was only for you [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] - I hope now you appreciate why I feel that the writer is talking from his backside - He did no research and wrote an extremely one-sided article.
 
KarachiKing said:
thats hearsay and we dont have proof of that so lets no bring that.

But it is established FACT that ever constituency opened so far has 60-70,000 unverified fake votes. And PML-N has used every trick in the book to stop the other constituencies from being opened by getting stay orders from courts. There is proff of that and the Interior Minister from PML-N has also said that there are thousands of bogus votes in each constituency.

The point is not that PTI didnt win the election or PML-N won through rigging. Point is that why should we accept a government which was not democratically elected but still continues to masquerade as such.

I don't see [MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=14431]blinding light[/MENTION] or [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] replying to this
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Big difference between unverified and fake/rigged votes. Chaudry Nisar never said 60-70,000 votes were fake/bogus but that they could not be verified.

Let's just take NA-118 for example where Hamid Zaman of PTI lost the election. Nadra submitted its report of verification of votes from NA-118 and the report disclosed that no record was found for 50,000 votes, while 25,000 votes were unverified and 4,000 were bogus votes; however, 15,000 votes were verified. That means the 75,000 votes in NA-118 were not bogus but could not be verified because of low quality ink and improper thumb impressions. This could happen from either half thumb impressions or vague/unclear impressions. Nadra first scans the fingerprints and then matches them with the Nadra data to verify a vote. Their data can give multiple matches against one fingerprint because of low quality of ink and improper thumb impression or doesn't give any match against that thumb impression, in both the cases the vote is declared unverified.

So now you tell me, did PML-N deliberately had people make half thumb impressions or asked the polling stations to use low quality ink because the unverified votes could well be their own votes versus being of their opponents. In any case, in situations like this, a re-election should take place with a better voting mechanism in place so this does not happen again.

Did rigging happened that changed results in a few urban constituency in Punjab, its possible. Did rigging happened at such a massive scale and so blatantly that the whole elections should be declared null and void, I don't think so. The parties who feel their seats were stolen or who do not accept the results of the elections on certain seats should take their grievances to proper channels. The system and delivery of justice in our country is not speedy or efficient so I don't know how PTI can expect their cases to be solved before anyone else or why should they get any exceptional treatment. If they feel they are being deliberately stalled than protests to reform the election commision and bring meaningful changes to the process of voting and counting is not only justifiable but commendable. Unfortunately, it started as such but somehow the plot got out of hand and now its become a zero sum game with demands which are not only unconstitutional but borders of thuggery/ghunda gardi.

Our democratic system is just taking root and any attempts to pull the rug from under it not only undermines the whole process, it gives undemocratic forces justification to meddle and exert their will on something they should have no say over. Unfortunately, that is what IK is asking for and if he gets his wishes, I'm afraid this will be the end of democracy for Pakistan for a very long time.
 
Pakistani nation does not deserve Imran Khan. He could have lived a life that hundreds and thousands in Pakistan could not even dream of. He chose to struggle for his country for the love it. Love him hate him, he is extremely sincere for his country. Pakistani people deserve Nawaz Sharif for next 5 years and after that it will be Zardari guy's turn. After these two, their children will take over if Pakistan is able to survive by then and the same **** will start over and over.......
 
Support someone when he does something that deserves it and critisize him when he deserves it,what most of the people usually do is that they support a party,then do not listen a word against it and applaud it without having a glance at their shortcomings,leading some one by the nose is not right IMO.
 
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cricket083 said:
Support someone when he does something that deserves it and critisize him when he deserves it,what most of the people usually do is that they support a party,then do not listen a word against it and applaud it without having a glance at their shortcomings,leading some one by the nose is not right IMO.
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At this moment people don't care. They want the PM out.
 
saadibaba said:
Big difference between unverified and fake/rigged votes. Chaudry Nisar never said 60-70,000 votes were fake/bogus but that they could not be verified.

Let's just take NA-118 for example where Hamid Zaman of PTI lost the election. Nadra submitted its report of verification of votes from NA-118 and the report disclosed that no record was found for 50,000 votes, while 25,000 votes were unverified and 4,000 were bogus votes; however, 15,000 votes were verified. That means the 75,000 votes in NA-118 were not bogus but could not be verified because of low quality ink and improper thumb impressions. This could happen from either half thumb impressions or vague/unclear impressions. Nadra first scans the fingerprints and then matches them with the Nadra data to verify a vote. Their data can give multiple matches against one fingerprint because of low quality of ink and improper thumb impression or doesn't give any match against that thumb impression, in both the cases the vote is declared unverified.

So now you tell me, did PML-N deliberately had people make half thumb impressions or asked the polling stations to use low quality ink because the unverified votes could well be their own votes versus being of their opponents. In any case, in situations like this, a re-election should take place with a better voting mechanism in place so this does not happen again.

Did rigging happened that changed results in a few urban constituency in Punjab, its possible. Did rigging happened at such a massive scale and so blatantly that the whole elections should be declared null and void, I don't think so. The parties who feel their seats were stolen or who do not accept the results of the elections on certain seats should take their grievances to proper channels. The system and delivery of justice in our country is not speedy or efficient so I don't know how PTI can expect their cases to be solved before anyone else or why should they get any exceptional treatment. If they feel they are being deliberately stalled than protests to reform the election commision and bring meaningful changes to the process of voting and counting is not only justifiable but commendable. Unfortunately, it started as such but somehow the plot got out of hand and now its become a zero sum game with demands which are not only unconstitutional but borders of thuggery/ghunda gardi.

Our democratic system is just taking root and any attempts to pull the rug from under it not only undermines the whole process, it gives undemocratic forces justification to meddle and exert their will on something they should have no say over. Unfortunately, that is what IK is asking for and if he gets his wishes, I'm afraid this will be the end of democracy for Pakistan for a very long time.
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You are stating that democratic process should continue and at the same time you agree that 60000-70000 votes per constituency are unverifiable which makes the current "democratic" government questionable to say the least(In this day and age it should be unacceptable). This effectively makes it impossible to determine in what scale the rigging took place(I understand hat you dont think that rigging took place at a massive scale but there is a significant portion of people who do). Then you want the democratic process to be corrected under the same questionable parliament.

Secondly, Can you state which of Imran Khan's demands are unconstitutional? I agree that they may be extreme but I dont believe any of them fall outside the constitution.

There is no democracy in which a government should continue with that many unverifiable votes(60-70000 per constituency equals to over 16000000 unverifiable votes considering there are over 250 seats). Also, in which democracy state police are allowed to shoot at about a 100 innocent civilians and there are no major repercussions on any of the governing body. In fact, the victims are not even allowed to file an FIR.
 
What people don't understand is that we most or many Insaafians don't support imran khan because we believe that he is going to take Pakistan to some ridiculous new heights overnight that's not realistic of course. We support him because there is no alternative and we know he is the only person at the moment who can set Pakistan on to the right track and then down somewhere we would find leaders who would make us a proud Pakistani. We know Imran Khan is the only guy sincere with the country right now. You can differ with his policies but I don't see how can you choose crooks like shareef family over someone like Imran. Sharif is neither honest nor smart. He has the same people in his cabinet he had in 90s.
 
Badsha said:
A majority does.
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The number of protestors all over the country says otherwise. Say what you will, if one were to just listen to Imran's speeches, it would seem like all of Pakistan couldn't wait to be out on the streets.

If "majority" was as fed up of the PM as Imran and his, at best, 30k crowd of supporters in Islamabad would make you believe, you would have seen every major city in Pakistan with people on the streets. Alas, the streets are empty.
 
With each passing day and the rainy weather the government become stronger and the protestors weaker. I see imran packing his bags and leaving by Monday
 
RWAC said:
The number of protestors all over the country says otherwise. Say what you will, if one were to just listen to Imran's speeches, it would seem like all of Pakistan couldn't wait to be out on the streets.

If "majority" was as fed up of the PM as Imran and his, at best, 30k crowd of supporters in Islamabad would make you believe, you would have seen every major city in Pakistan with people on the streets. Alas, the streets are empty.
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there is the blind..and then there are the blind at heart...the latter explains people like yourself
 
Mystrey said:
I dont know why people take Mamoon seriously. If you have a statue of a man, certified, then everyone will say hey that's a man. Except Mamoon. Who will deliberately try and be hip and go against the grain and say 'that's a woman.
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:))) Pure Gold
 
IK tried. And tried his best.

He should now move to England and stay close to his kids as they also deserve his time.

This herd of sheep is just not ready. Let them to the dogs that has been taking turns to screw this nation for the last 65 years.

The voting majority of
Pakistan is its biggest traitor.
 
RWAC said:
Thanks for joining and completing the trinity with 'the blind at logic'.

At least reply with something concrete, or don't bother.
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you don't see people out in saikot, lahore, karachi? you say 30k, pmln is claiming less than 10000, others are claiming few hundred...either people dont know how to count or people are in denial...
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
you don't see people out in saikot, lahore, karachi? you say 30k, pmln is claiming less than 10000, others are claiming few hundred...either people dont know how to count or people are in denial...
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Okay and how many do you say? Pull up any number - and it still won't amount to even a tiny percentage of 'majority' as the other poster said.

I was playing the wait and watch game to see this plays out - I don't have any side to pick. To me, if this was meant to be a revolution/freedom movement, I expected massive sit-ins and protests to break out all over Pakistan since IK and his supporters made it sound like almost all of Pakistan is fed up of the government. I don't see that happening on a scale it needed to happen. Now, barring anything dramatically out of the ordinary, we will only see the moment fizzle out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RWAC said:
The number of protestors all over the country says otherwise. Say what you will, if one were to just listen to Imran's speeches, it would seem like all of Pakistan couldn't wait to be out on the streets.

If "majority" was as fed up of the PM as Imran and his, at best, 30k crowd of supporters in Islamabad would make you believe, you would have seen every major city in Pakistan with people on the streets. Alas, the streets are empty.
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He's on the streets primarily because in his opinion PML N's mandate is not legitimate and neither have they done anything to prove the legitimacy. Majority might not be fed up of Sharifs but that doesn't mean those who are fed up shouldn't stand for their rights.

P.s: If majority were so happy with Sharifs, we would already have seen millions on streets at least in Lahore in their support. We did see 400 the other day in Pindi. And just to correct you, streets are not "empty". PTI Lahore, Sialkot and karachi are also doing dharnas on daily basis:

Karachi:

View attachment 48140

Sialkot:

View attachment 48141

Faisalabad:

View attachment 48142

Lahore:

https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net...=db5753c37e235be3f334a62444853688&oe=5477402E

Empty streets, yeah.
 
RWAC said:
Okay and how many do you say? Pull up any number - and it still won't amount to even a tiny percentage of 'majority' as the other poster said.

I was playing the wait and watch game to see this plays out - I don't have any side to pick. To me, if this was meant to be a revolution/freedom movement, I expected massive sit-ins and protests to break out all over Pakistan since IK and his supporters made it sound like almost all of Pakistan is fed up of the government. I don't see that happening on a scale it needed to happen. Now, barring anything dramatically out of the ordinary, we will only see the moment fizzle out.


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i agree with you. most of the nation is not fed up with the government...they actually want a corrupt system...they are a product of this corrupt system...they are either uneducated, lack the common sense to do anything against their feudal masters or they find the corrupt system to be of some benefit to them either currently or the possibility of benefiting from it in the future
 
Not everyone comes out on the streets and protests. And Pakistanis are worst when it comes to protest. Bhutto used to say that himalyas would cry over his death.. Unfortunately he was so wrong..very few people came out for him.
 
Down2Earth said:
With each passing day and the rainy weather the government become stronger and the protestors weaker. I see imran packing his bags and leaving by Monday
Click to expand...

Imran will never back down unless he is absolutely forced to. Kaptaan is a natural leader
 
Noora420 said:
He's on the streets primarily because in his opinion PML N's mandate is not legitimate and neither have they done anything to prove the legitimacy. Majority might not be fed up of Sharifs but that doesn't mean those who are fed up shouldn't stand for their rights.
Click to expand...

No issues with that. He has every right to protest if he feels there was rigging, and his concerns were not addressed using other methods.


P.s: If majority were so happy with Sharifs, we would already have seen millions on streets at least in Lahore in their support. We did see 400 the other day in Pindi. And just to correct you, streets are not "empty". PTI Lahore, Sialkot and karachi are also doing dharnas on daily basis:

Empty streets, yeah.
Click to expand...


Majority just doesn't care and is apolitical. Which is a different statement than saying majority wants the PM out.

Yes, there are protests happening in those cities you mentioned, but no where near the level of hype that was built by using terms like "azaadi" "revolution". PTI built it up as if Pakistan would shut down and be out on the streets. That didn't happen. That's all I'm pointing out.

This is no revolution, at least not the type of revolution around which hype was built upon. Regime change is not happening (unless army takes over). There is no "naya Pakistan" that is being built overnight. Not that it should be expected to happen overnight, but Imran and PTI did beat the drums to make it sound like that prior to the march. That's my whole point.

Although I do wish these protests do lead to reforms in the electoral system.


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Gayle_Force said:
You are stating that democratic process should continue and at the same time you agree that 60000-70000 votes per constituency are unverifiable which makes the current "democratic" government questionable to say the least(In this day and age it should be unacceptable). This effectively makes it impossible to determine in what scale the rigging took place(I understand hat you dont think that rigging took place at a massive scale but there is a significant portion of people who do). Then you want the democratic process to be corrected under the same questionable parliament.

Secondly, Can you state which of Imran Khan's demands are unconstitutional? I agree that they may be extreme but I dont believe any of them fall outside the constitution.

There is no democracy in which a government should continue with that many unverifiable votes(60-70000 per constituency equals to over 16000000 unverifiable votes considering there are over 250 seats). Also, in which democracy state police are allowed to shoot at about a 100 innocent civilians and there are no major repercussions on any of the governing body. In fact, the victims are not even allowed to file an FIR.
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The problem is with Nadra. The ECP asked Nadra to verify votes and instead of using manual verification, which is obviously more costly and time consuming but more accurate, they decided to do it through a computer software system which was upgraded by their own staff to start verifying 500,000 votes per day. Obviously, the software was inadequate as it could not verify even half the votes in the constituencies it was applied. Automatically, the issue was politicized by the losing parties when it's hard to know that the votes which were unverified belonged to the winning party or losing party but it was automatically assumed that all unverified votes are fake or bogus (jaali) and were all in favor of the winning party hence the results cannot be accepted. I understand the concern and there should be re-elections in those constituencies. I feel that the votes on many seats won by PTI in KP, if processed through Nadra, will find majority of the votes to be unverified as well.

Do we have the capacity than to have another general elections before fixing the problem with vote verification which will take years or before we can introduce electronic voting system. A better approach would have been to pick the constituencies where the election results were close or where pre-election polling showed different results and open them to audit and try to verity votes manually and if majority of votes are not able to be verified than have re-elections in those particular constituencies using very specific methods of voting or even better, electronic voting if possible.

As for IK's demands being unconstitutional, I think he said it himself in his speech at the dharna that he cannot get rid of Nawaz through constitutional means as Nawaz can hide behind the constitution/law. I would just leave it at that.

The model town incident is deplorable but still hard to say without solid evidence that the decision to open fire came straight from Shahbaz or Nawaz. That being said, they should be held accountable under the laws of the land and I agree with the protests by TUQ regarding that matter.




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saadibaba said:
The problem is with Nadra. The ECP asked Nadra to verify votes and instead of using manual verification, which is obviously more costly and time consuming but more accurate, they decided to do it through a computer software system which was upgraded by their own staff to start verifying 500,000 votes per day. Obviously, the software was inadequate as it could not verify even half the votes in the constituencies it was applied. Automatically, the issue was politicized by the losing parties when it's hard to know that the votes which were unverified belonged to the winning party or losing party but it was automatically assumed that all unverified votes are fake or bogus (jaali) and were all in favor of the winning party hence the results cannot be accepted. I understand the concern and there should be re-elections in those constituencies. I feel that the votes on many seats won by PTI in KP, if processed through Nadra, will find majority of the votes to be unverified as well.

Do we have the capacity than to have another general elections before fixing the problem with vote verification which will take years or before we can introduce electronic voting system. A better approach would have been to pick the constituencies where the election results were close or where pre-election polling showed different results and open them to audit and try to verity votes manually and if majority of votes are not able to be verified than have re-elections in those particular constituencies using very specific methods of voting or even better, electronic voting if possible.

As for IK's demands being unconstitutional, I think he said it himself in his speech at the dharna that he cannot get rid of Nawaz through constitutional means as Nawaz can hide behind the constitution/law. I would just leave it at that.

The model town incident is deplorable but still hard to say without solid evidence that the decision to open fire came straight from Shahbaz or Nawaz. That being said, they should be held accountable under the laws of the land and I agree with the protests by TUQ regarding that matter.




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Click to expand...

What about the constituencies that they opened manually and found major fraud. I think NA 118 had half the votes with no stamp and signature. NA 154 they found 1/3 of the bags approx with no seal i.e. tampered with. Come on now...IK is not shouting without a reason. There was major rigging, now if the ones who are supposed to find the exact details of rigging are the one involved in the rigging or the cover up then of course nothing is ever gonna come out.
 
As usual the heroic insaafiyans going left right and resorting to personal jibes when they are posed with a straightforward question which makes them clueless because it exposes the fallacy of their quest.

I'm an armchair critic because I don't give a rat's rear about the deluded Khan anymore, but you are the true patriots who will take a bullet for Imran (over the internet :yk) but can't bothered to comeback to this country and be a part of this revolution.

Why does every expatriate Pakistani suddenly become so highly patriotic?

Guys like Badsha, Anfield, cricwiz, vegitto etc have their heads 100 ft deep up Imran's rear but can't be bothered to join Imran in the revolution because its so easy to make pro Imran comments from the comforts of your home but who can be bothered to walk the talk right?

Why are you not out there right now?

Waiting for 4589483948394834938493489348394839483948394839483948394839483493849384 excuses.

I don't call myself a political expert but politics deeply interests me. I study it and I try to learn about it every day. This is not attention seeking; attention seeking is what's happening in Islamabad right now with red and green face paint.

I made a simple post which was predictably ignored and I will post it again in bold:

My answer? Pakistani politicians don't and that's the tragedy of this 'revolution'.


Around 75-80% of the people in PTI don't want naya Pakistan and are with Imran simply it's 'best for business'. They are not with Imran because they want change; they are with him because working for PTI is a better prospect these days than working for PML-N and PPP.

Most of them win elections in their halka irrespective of whom they stand for and thus, electoral reforms actually don't suit them. You'd be naive to think that someone like Pervez Khattak is fussed about the whole election process.

There is no loyalty in these people and they will jump ship if it's for their betterment. This is where Imran lost the plot in the first place - he has hired the same old faces from other parties, put red and green paint on them and has slapped them with the tabdeeli and naya Pakistan tag which is quite laughable.
 
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Anfield said:
Hard to take someone serious when he says nicotine is not addictive. lol

And this malikmohsin is a tool. He wished death of all pti supporters in a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

Please educate yourself over the properties of nicotine and what makes it addictive and what counters the addiction and ends up making it a habitual addiction.
 
Yes, what shows your true intellect level is taking a bullet for Imran over the internet with your bum glued to your armchair in the USA and lending online support to the man you idolize. :yk :)))
 
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ya toh ye log mujay jaanthay nahee hain or ya tho inhon ne mujhe ghalat janaa hay : IMRAN KHAN

WHEN DID KHAN SAHAB SAID THIS
 
Rule:

As soon as an insaafiyan AKA a true patriotic Pakistani (doesn't matter if armchair or practical) gets stuck, he will resort to :

1) name calling

2) will question your intellect level

3) will stop taking you 'seriously'.

4) will question your age

5) will question your political knowledge.

:baelish
 
Anfield said:
Hard to take someone serious when he says nicotine is not addictive. lol

And this malikmohsin is a tool. He wished death of all pti supporters in a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

Can you prove it? If you fail to prove this allegation, then quit PakPassion forever, deal?

Onus is on you to prove now since you brought this in this thread.
 
Mamoon said:
Rule:

As soon as an insaafiyan AKA a true patriotic Pakistani (doesn't matter if armchair or practical) gets stuck, he will resort to :

1) name calling

2) will question your intellect level

3) will stop taking you 'seriously'.

4) will question your age

5) will question your political knowledge.

6) Character assassination [which they are doing pretty well]

:baelish
Click to expand...


Added
 
Badsha said:
It's useless to argue with them. They have no sense of principals.
Click to expand...

KarachiKing said:
^ Worst is how they simply dont reply to questions which they dont have any answer to
Click to expand...

Actually, that point has been answered a million times. If there were enough valid seats for the current party to form the government, then it is a valid government. Because the majority who voted for them did vote for them. They went out of their house and voted for the party. Just a few thousand people have no rights to overthrow a government through force. So whether 1 is rigged or 100, it does make a huge difference here
 
Badsha said:
This.

Never get a spouse/friend like that. They just love to argue. They don't understand the art of conversation/argument and accepting the points of others.




The bold part is true for many of the people who are anti Imran for no reason. I disagree with your assesment of SaadiBaba though. Compared to someone like Mamoon he has a lot of knowledge, probably even more than me as I believe he's older than I am. The thing with SaadiBaba is that he has a different opinion and outlook than I do. That doesn't really bother me since he reads/makes references to articles etc. Mamoon and MalikMohsin should learn from him. Both of them are clowns to be honest and shouldn't be given much attention.
Click to expand...

I don`t understand why you drag me in your post. Since i don`t subscribe your ideology, i should be treated like outcast then?

@TheGreatKhan and I have been debating about the economical policy after few months later when Nawaz Sharif became PM. We both didn't agree with eachother, but we still respected with each other's opinions despite of our differences.. Here you are gossiping like woman engaging character assassination while backbiting behind their backs.

In democracy, there is freedom of speech attached to it. Even if they disagree with your so-called cult's policy prior to recent situation, but that is no excuse to resort to personal insult. Feel free to disagree with my opinions and move on. Nobody is stopping you from talking about PMLN and its policy, but why engage character assassination on those who don't agree with PTI policy?

How can you support democracy yet not follow the rules of democracy? That is not democracy. What you are asking is hypocracy, not democracy.
 
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MalikMohsin said:
Can you prove it? If you fail to prove this allegation, then quit PakPassion forever, deal?

Onus is on you to prove now since you brought this in this thread.
Click to expand...

I can't be bothered to look up the posts. But you and I both know you said that.
 
[MENTION=1665]waqar_ahmad[/MENTION] [MENTION=1024]Vegitto1[/MENTION]
Where is the evidence regarding the accusation against me for misusing Islam?
That was grave accusation. Before i report you both, either apologize or provide the evidence.
As i mentioned before, those kind of people who love to accuse without evidence is indeed 'Beghairat'. That is the word especially reserved for certain type of people.
Click to expand...

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-14th-August&p=6941332&highlight=#post6941332

^ It is not first time i have faced allegation. Both [MENTION=1665]waqar_ahmad[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1024]Vegitto1[/MENTION] are yet to prove the allegation in other thread.
 
Anfield said:
I can't be bothered to look up the posts. But you and I both know you said that.
Click to expand...

You have made grave accusation in public forum. Don't think you make accusation and get away with this. Now, prove it in public.

Either apologize to me in public for making grave accusation and i will take condition off prior to leave PakPassion forever or provide the evidence for the grave allegation you just made.
 
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MalikMohsin said:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-14th-August&p=6941332&highlight=#post6941332

^ It is not first time i have faced allegation. Both [MENTION=1665]waqar_ahmad[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1024]Vegitto1[/MENTION] are yet to prove the allegation in other thread.
Click to expand...

malik brother, I have seen so many people accuse you of various things, like supporting israel, wanting pakistan to emulate israel, misusing Islam, asking for the death of PTI supporters. but never read any post of yours like that.. so not sure what these people are on about.
 
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