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PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

AZ said:
because I agree with their basic policies i.e. strengthen the economy, improved ties with India.

and they have proved themselves over the past 5/6 years or so, not a coincidence that Punjab is outperforming all the other provinces.




not nearly as great as him, but am certainly not a gullible idiot who doesn't bother looking at both sides of the coin.
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Improved ties.. More like licking their boots... Your Nawaz even messed up Kargil but lets not go there you might get offended and come up with another BS story
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
we can tolerate the ills and woes of democracy, what we are screaming about is the monarchy that is in play. If you have heard the speeches of your brothers in looting on the Parliament floor, you would have heard loud and clear the BS that is SHarif politics yet they still remain on NS side to make sure their overall business of looting stays intact.

Btw nice job calling people out while sitting in the most advanced democracy in the world in the UAE.
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indeed, baaki sab chor daaku hain, tum log sahi ho.

never mind that half of the old PMLQ is in PTI's ranks...after going through a stringent purification process of baptism by Kuptaan Khan, of course.
 
pakistanisgreat said:
ALLAH has saved pakistan from the Fitna of Qadri and imrani!

I am not fan of this N league. But hate whatever qadri and imran did you our country.
i just wasted my voted by giving to imran.

Imran i just hate you as a politician. What kind of leader you are , giving message to people not to pay taxes, fight with police!
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I understand your sentiments and i don't know how old are you (not taking a cheap shot at all) but these are things you understand as you grow up. There is HUGE difference between asking people NOT to pay taxes and civil disobedience. If there is ANY leader who has raised awareness about importance of paying taxes, it is Imran Khan and if you have genuinely supported him, you would have known. He is the reason Nawaz Sharif is paying taxes in lakhs (should be in Carores) rather than Rs 5000 or so that he used to.
If non payment of taxes is your genuine concern, you need to think hard and look back at last few years. You may want to Google "Civil Disobedience".
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
we can tolerate the ills and woes of democracy, what we are screaming about is the monarchy that is in play. If you have heard the speeches of your brothers in looting on the Parliament floor, you would have heard loud and clear the BS that is SHarif politics yet they still remain on NS side to make sure their overall business of looting stays intact.

Btw nice job calling people out while sitting in the most advanced democracy in the world in the UAE.
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if it was a monarchy then Imran Khan and TuQ would be in some dark dungeon being tortured day and night for bhagawat.

try to give us an original thought instead of simply parroting your leader's words.
 
AZ said:
if it was a monarchy then Imran Khan and TuQ would be in some dark dungeon being tortured day and night for bhagawat.

try to give us an original thought instead of simply parroting your leader's words.
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It must be hard for you to comprehend what he meant when he said they were a monarchy. Or do you have aadat of taking everything literally?
 
AZ said:
indeed, baaki sab chor daaku hain, tum log sahi ho.

never mind that half of the old PMLQ is in PTI's ranks...after going through a stringent purification process of baptism by Kuptaan Khan, of course.
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That's quite old and expired argument, MOST PMLQ members who joined PTI left after intra party elections and joined PMLN and Mian saab had no issue accepting them after calling them LOTAY for years, these were the same people who had ditched PMLN but Mian saab being lion hearted accepted them (To strengthen DEMOCRACY I MUST ADD lol).
 
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IK is a sportsman and has come to politics with the same mentality. He should have stepped back about NS resigning after all the demands of vote recounting and improving of election systems were met.
And NS is a badshah that wants to rule doesn't care about the democracy or the parliament. The only time he went to parliament was when he felt he was facing a no confidence motion. NS came to politics under Zia-ul-Haq martial law regime and he tries to run his governement in the same manner.
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
Wrong again. See here is the issue that I am trying to explain to you which you seem to overlook and not willing to listen. You are living in a fantasy land where this perfect ideology of yours (democracy of the West) must also function in Pakistan as it functions in the west. You stated that judiciary is "politicized" in the US and UK. Surely the judges as they retire are picked by the President/Party in power at the time. But they are picked on "policies" not bought or bribed. There is a big difference, actually a huge massive difference. A pro-Abortion President will pick a judge who is more likely to be pro-Abortion. But when the time for a judgement comes he won't contact all 9 judge of the US supreme court to buy them off or threaten their family heck he can't even call them to push his agenda.

What was the situation of these advanced Western democracies 6 years into their inception? Nepotism, derailment of justice, institutionalised racism/breach of human rights and whatnot. What brought them out of this situation? The continuity of the democratic system. Give Pakistan 200 years of uninterrupted democracy and then we'll talk.

The demand of resignation was a verbal or written claim and actually is. Which live threats are you talking about that are bothering you and insulting you so much? If you speak of the language that is used then that is our culture and it is not set by IK or PTI. Today on the Parliament floor they called the protesters terrorists and traitors. Does that mar the legitmarcy of the Parliament?

Talk about selective hearing. When you threaten to burn down the Parliament and the Constitution, beat up top ranking police officers, storm the PM house and local police stations, are you being democratic?!
And you are insulting our culture by claiming that such language is a part of it! I have never ever seen or heard these shalwar geeli comments from anyone. The sad part is, you'd expect the illiterate PMLN jiyalas to speak in this manner, not an Oxford-educated, world-cup winning captain.

"Advanced Democracy". Please stop there. We are NOT an advanced democracy. In fact we are not even an average democracy. Do you think otherwise? Please reconsider by keeping facts in mind. But now that you talk about advanced democracies, elected officials don't have to be forced to resign, they just do after even a hint of an allegation comes out against them. At the minimum they try to clear their name right away. They don't go get stay orders, delay the constitutional rights of those who feel they have been wronged by delaying the proceedings.

We're not, agreed. But once you allow a system to develop and take it's course, such parliamentary conventions WILL develop and we would be seeing resignations once the hint of allegations surface. Factually, there is no compulsion on them to resign by themselves until an independent inquiry finds them guilty.


If you are so hell bent on supporting "democracy in Pakistan", your fury should be at Nawaz sharif and his cronies for derailing the process of democracy that was being established in Pakistan. Under which, it is a right of those contesting elections to ask for a recount. For 15 months, where were you and folks like yourself who saw first hand videos of rigging and heard first hands accounts of rigging from common people? Where were you and why didn't you scream for an explanation and where is your anger that not a single FIR was filed against anyone for rigging?

Read my posts again. The demand for reforms and recounting and unconstitutional. And these demands HAVE been agreed to. It's the escalation of this crisis over Nawaz's resignation that was unconstitutional. The methodology was unconstitutional. And where have I tried to cover up the rigging? Stop trying to label me as PMLNer at this point. I'd be happy if this entire affair serves as a catharsis for PMLN and makes them produce answers for this rigging. Was there rigging? Absolutely. Was it enough to unseat the current govt. I think not.

And where was I? I was toiling hard as an international student in a foreign country learning all I could to understand it all, to serve Pakistan in some way. I can't stop you from supporting IK over Pakistan, but I will stand by my country and its institutions and not stand for any individual.
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Answered in bold.

UsmanhailsAfridi said:
One man, his name is Imran Khan. Genuine, honest and ready to do anything for his country. It took him 18 years to win a few seats after the 2 looting parties signed the 'Charter of Democracy' sitting overseas after making a deal with the US and a military dictator to initiate NRO in Pakistan. WOW. Such are the foundations of democracy in Pakistan.
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:)))

The extent of your hero worship knows no bounds. Instead of accrediting the awaam and youth who stood up and organised under a banner of a fresh party to make their voices heard, you claim IK as the true messianic saviour who braved the odds all by himself for the innocents of Pakistan.

Debate with you is futile. Democracy is power to the people, not to IK. Hero worship and personalised politics will get one nowhere - whether it is propogating the Bhutto brand name or Sharif. or Altaf Hussein. Until and unless we look BEYOND the person, we most probably will be stuck in a rut.
 
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Couch Cricketer said:
IK is a sportsman and has come to politics with the same mentality. He should have stepped back about NS resigning after all the demands of vote recounting and improving of election systems were met.
And NS is a badshah that wants to rule doesn't care about the democracy or the parliament. The only time he went to parliament was when he felt he was facing a no confidence motion. NS came to politics under Zia-ul-Haq martial law regime and he tries to run his governement in the same manner.
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I agree, Imran Khan needs to adopt diplomatic attitude instead of do or die like a sportsman in every situation. PTI should have continued raising recounting and electoral reforms issue in parliament continuously. In Imran's defence, no one took this issue seriously until the long march but it should have finished there after few days with assurance from honest neutrals.
 
Couch Cricketer said:
IK is a sportsman and has come to politics with the same mentality. He should have stepped back about NS resigning after all the demands of vote recounting and improving of election systems were met.
And NS is a badshah that wants to rule doesn't care about the democracy or the parliament. The only time he went to parliament was when he felt he was facing a no confidence motion. NS came to politics under Zia-ul-Haq martial law regime and he tries to run his governement in the same manner.
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Agreed!

Waseem said:
I agree, Imran Khan needs to adopt diplomatic attitude instead of do or die like a sportsman in every situation. PTI should have continued raising recounting and electoral reforms issue in parliament continuously. In Imran's defence, no one took this issue seriously until the long march but it should have finished there after few days with assurance from honest neutrals.
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To be honest, there is a very sad fact that every PTI member loves to overlook. IK has as many showings in the Parliament as the leader of the opposition, as his counterpart, PM Nawaz Sharif. Not an opinion, it's a FACT. And if he has screamed the walls down of the Parliament with the demands of electoral reforms and rigging, people would have listened, he would have garnered support.

But this stopped being the issue of reforms and rigging a long time back. Now it's Imran's delusions of being PM vs Nawaz's undermined executive authority.
 
Sakss said:
Improved ties.. More like licking their boots... Your Nawaz even messed up Kargil but lets not go there you might get offended and come up with another BS story
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why have you deleted my comment? can't handle the truth?
 
Waseem said:
That's quite old and expired argument, MOST PMLQ members who joined PTI left after intra party elections and joined PMLN and Mian saab had no issue accepting them after calling them LOTAY for years, these were the same people who had ditched PMLN but Mian saab being lion hearted accepted them (To strengthen DEMOCRACY I MUST ADD lol).
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the same intra-party elections by which Javed Hashmi was elected president of the party but then injudiciously dismissed by the Chairman?

let's not kid ourselves.

I won't make some lofty claims like PTI of 'clean' or 'reformed' people, it was to PMLN's advantage to re-use them as they had something to offer, and they did what was necessary to get back in power.
 
I don't know what to say Gen Ayyub, Gen Zia and Gen Musharraf mureeden are giving us lecture on democracy. Sherpao was the guy who locked Nawaz in toilet when he returned to Pak in 2007. He was Musharraf interior minister when Laal Masjid, 12th May and Bugti incidents happened and now he is going to give us lecture on Democracy? I better watch Cartoon Network thn
 
This is Democracy and National Assembly? Everyone talking about how to protect their own interests and talking about their provincial issues not a single person talking about Federation. #Shame

In short all these parties will protect their interest together no matter how much the nation suffer. And their current 2 point agenda is protect their interest and attack army.
 
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AZ said:
Always makes me laugh when I read some of our Insafian brethren living in countries with established political systems like the US, Canada or UK railing against the ills and woes of democracy.

Hypocrisy and do numberi at its finest.
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Because we live in these countries we know what democracy is! and therefore we can tell you that what we have in Pakistan is not democracy.

You are like a person who has read a book on how to do something but never done it yourself! we have read the book and lived it so when democracy is discussed people like us are authority and you should learn to appreciate that fact.
 
Vegitto1 said:
Because we live in these countries we know what democracy is! and therefore we can tell you that what we have in Pakistan is not democracy.

You are like a person who has read a book on how to do something but never done it yourself! we have read the book and lived it so when democracy is discussed people like us are authority and you should learn to appreciate that fact.
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:)) :))

the authority who are encouraging civil disobedience and the blatant breaking of the law giving lectures on democracy.

fantastic!
 
Vegitto1 said:
Because we live in these countries we know what democracy is! and therefore we can tell you that what we have in Pakistan is not democracy.

.
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Actually you are living in countries which had continuous, uninterrupted democracy for centuries. And you are just seeing the result of that

When they begin they had exactly the same corruption problem, as many criminals, rigging of elections, etc that you currently see in Pakistan. You want to portray that Pakistan is a unique case, when every new democracy has these teething issues. A lot can be learnt from history, your own or others. The only difference for those other countries was, some savior did not interrupt democracy every 5 years. They improved the system instead of depending on one savior, a Mushraff or an Imran, because people are just people. They don't stay for ever. But a good system will stay forever

However, it is also important that, the system should come from within and is not imposed by some savior.
 
AZ said:
:)) :))

the authority who are encouraging civil disobedience and the blatant breaking of the law giving lectures on democracy.

fantastic!
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1. No law has been broken

2. Civil disobedience is a form of protest. Go look up history. What did the black community did in America during their civil rights movement. Like I said to you before, we have read it and we live it so it's best you lecture us on monarchy and dictatorship and family dynasties, which you have experience of and seem to enjoy.
 
My personal 2 cents. Straight from the heart, which is hardly ever logical.

I've lived in a system abroad in the duration of my studies. A system needs every single person to work. Every single person to contribute, from bureacuracy to armed forces to judiciary to executive and legislative authorities. Negate one's own persona and become part of the system. Work. Pay your taxes. Stop at the damn red light. Don't bribe the officials. Fulfill your civil obligations to the best of your ability. Invoke ghairat in others who don't abide by the system.

I accept that the leadership is corrupt in Pakistan, and hardly sets a good precedent. But this corruption culture is now rooted in majority of the minds out there. Now corruption is not being done just by the top department head, but everyone from the worker, to the peon, to the guy as ordinary as the one lays down telephone lines.

Corruption is corruption, whether down out of majboori or deliberately. And it can never be condoned.

What we're doing as a nation is that we're ignoring our own faults and shortcomings, and have begun this search for the one single messianic personality who will cleanse everything, and everything will become good and well overnight. One singular personality who will fix everything for us, on the one condition that we cheer him on. You will never hear any politician or anchor talk about the failings of the awam itself, because that is not what wins them votes or ratings. You'll always hear self-conceived messiahs reminding everyone of the grievances done to them by and large, without reminding them to fulfill the

Qatray qatray se samander banta hay.. Until and unless we understand and internalise this, it will be impossibly hard to move forward.
 
Vegitto1 said:
Oh yeah sorry I forgot, you are Anti-Everyone but you don't support PML-N. There is no point arguing with an Anti-Man.
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Nah, I apologise. I was the one who forgot that PTI has always had a soft corner for PPP, who were never as corrupt as PMLN. Sorry.

Vegitto1 said:
No, I think Imran Khan lacks the skill to make speeches like SMQ and Asad Umar
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Irrespective. He should have come.
 
blinding light said:
Nah, I apologise. I was the one who forgot that PTI has always had a soft corner for PPP, who were never as corrupt as PMLN. Sorry.



Irrespective. He should have come.
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PPP is corrupt and democratic
PMLN is corrupt and dictatorial
PTI is not corrupt and democratic

I guess this is a moot point. Both coming and not coming has benefits.
 
Vegitto1 said:
1. No law has been broken

2. Civil disobedience is a form of protest. Go look up history. What did the black community did in America during their civil rights movement. Like I said to you before, we have read it and we live it so it's best you lecture us on monarchy and dictatorship and family dynasties, which you have experience of and seem to enjoy.
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I know you ignore uncomfortable replies but here goes

No country in the world will tolerate protesters forcibly trying to evict a government. Huge difference between civil disobedience and threatening the government and talking about spilling blood

All the legitimate example where civil disobedience was needed is not true in Pak's case. The black community did not have rights and did not have votes. They had not contributed towards electing the government. They needed to go against the government to have their voices heard. Here, there is an elected government in place and a mob of few thousand people is unhappy with it and trying to pull it down. There is no comparison at all
 
SMQ started his speech in National Assembly and PM Nawaz Shareef left this is the so called democratic behavior.
 
Indiafan said:
I know you ignore uncomfortable replies but here goes

No country in the world will tolerate protesters forcibly trying to evict a government. Huge difference between civil disobedience and threatening the government and talking about spilling blood

All the legitimate example where civil disobedience was needed is not true in Pak's case. The black community did not have rights and did not have votes. They had not contributed towards electing the government. They needed to go against the government to have their voices heard. Here, there is an elected government in place and a mob of few thousand people is unhappy with it and trying to pull it down. There is no comparison at all
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Give me examples where such actions have not been tolerated. Thanks.

What you call elected is just a facade. Everyone knows to what extent rigging happened in these elections. And where the interior minister says that 70,000 votes in each constituency are non-verifiable then how can you say that the Government has been elected by the people?

I know you ignore facts but read up on how many things went wrong in 2013 elections and then tell me that these elections were free and fair.
 
Lol Nawaz Sharif left when Shah Mahmood Qureshi started his speech! Noora can't even face the opposition, how is he supposed to run a country?
 
Disgraceful, every politician now accepts dhandli but still wants to keep the assembly intact. What a contradiction. And that achakzai is such a ghadaar!!
 
disgraceful scenes in this so called national assembly, heckling someone when they call for the justice of those wounded and killed! sick people
 
Talking about everything under the sun EXCEPT for why IK decided to violate his written agreement and moving towards the PM house. Alleging Islamabad police began the "khoon ki holi" then saying, arms apart in surrender with a wry-smile "It's a POINT OF VIEW!"

#LaashonKiSiyasat
 
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There is some confusion out there. But I believe this is walking out of Parliament session without listening to the Speaker quite the same way as NS himself.

I could be wrong.
 
blinding light said:
There is some confusion out there. But I believe this is walking out of Parliament session without listening to the Speaker quite the same way as NS himself.

I could be wrong.
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When a party walks out it is in protest. When PM walks out when opposition is about to address Parliament, it is called cowardice!
 
Here comes another twist in the movie...Altaf going to give 1 week to goverment and if they don't accept his demands MQM members going to resign from all assemblies. Picture abhi baaqi hai mere dost hor panga lao fauj naal ;)
 
Vegitto1 said:
When a party walks out it is in protest. When PM walks out when opposition is about to address Parliament, it is called cowardice!
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This alleged "opposition" in this regard has already resigned from the Parl. but was allowed to present its POV.

Neither is beneficial for the nation.
 
WebGuru said:
Here comes another twist in the movie...Altaf going to give 1 week to goverment and if they don't accept his demands MQM members going to resign from all assemblies. Picture abhi baaqi hai mere dost hor panga lao fauj naal ;)
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This guy's been changing his stance DAILY.
 
Look at Khawaja Asif behavior in assembly sorry to say but he is acting like a certified ghunda...
 
SMQ should have mentioned at the end of the speech that "now my friends you know why we are out on streets protesting because int his so called parliament PM don't want to listen us, it's because of this type of PM we are out there."
 
Pictorial criticism of parliamentarians...

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PMLN embarrassing themselves over here. SMQ should have been grilled on the spot.

Questions of IK coordinating with a rebel like Qadri who openly denies the legitimacy of the Parliament and the Constitution, the violation of the agreement to not move forward, IK's stance the current parliament is completely illegitimate, the actual attack and breach of the Secratariat by a party which IK now openly supports, and so on and so forth.

Shama bujhney se pehlay bharakti hay.
 
Our Parliamentarians are an embarrassment. Don't know a language yet insist to speak it.

And the PM walks back in as soon as SMQ leaves. What a phattu!
 
PM Nawaz Shareef back in NA once SMQ left... Democracy!
 
And the Anti-Pakistan ANP against showing their hate against Army...
 
ANP doing "jalti per tail ka kaam" now they are making it look like democracy vs army... Sorry NS yeh log josh-e-khitaabat main apka resign dilwa ker he chorenge just look at MQM decision today and you will realize things are not normal so Mian Nawaz Shareef get some good advisers and dont listen to these Josh-e-Khitaabat waale people or khawajas...
 
A good example of Josh-e-Khitabat:

Nawaz sharif is elected "President of Pakistan" roars fuming senator Nabi Bungidh This is called joshay khitabat or more royal to the king...
 
zimmz said:
SMQ should have mentioned at the end of the speech that "now my friends you know why we are out on streets protesting because int his so called parliament PM don't want to listen us, it's because of this type of PM we are out there."
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This.He ran away as soon as he heard they SMQ was coming.

What a coward.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>MSG 4m Assembly is loud&clear. We are ready to bulldoze parliament & democracy but we won't adjust with fast changing new trends in society</p>— Rauf Klasra (@KlasraRauf) <a href="https://twitter.com/KlasraRauf/status/507069572600434688">September 3, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Siraq - ul- Haq is the most commendable politican at the moment, telling both parties to 'mature'



If Imran does eventually become PM, not sure how it is any different to the position he turned down in 2002, when offered by Musharraf
 
I think a lot of people fail to understand the point put forth by the members of the assembly who admit refuse to accept resignation of Nawaz as an option.

It has nothing to do with adopting new trends. It has more to do with letting the democracy mature and take its course.

With all the hoopla around elections rigging I'm positive the next elections will be much better and use technology to ensure that rigging does not occur. They may not be perfect but they will be better. Over time, things will keep on improving.

People will realize the value of their votes once they know that if they vote wrong they will be stuck with the party for the next 5 years. This will ensure that people start voting smartly.

If we keep hitting the reset button every year then nothing will change unfortunately.

All the points raised by Imran are correct however, his methods are not. He should have fought this battle in the parliament and not on the streets.
 
uberkoen said:
I think a lot of people fail to understand the point put forth by the members of the assembly who admit refuse to accept resignation of Nawaz as an option.

It has nothing to do with adopting new trends. It has more to do with letting the democracy mature and take its course.

With all the hoopla around elections rigging I'm positive the next elections will be much better and use technology to ensure that rigging does not occur. They may not be perfect but they will be better. Over time, things will keep on improving.

People will realize the value of their votes once they know that if they vote wrong they will be stuck with the party for the next 5 years. This will ensure that people start voting smartly.

If we keep hitting the reset button every year then nothing will change unfortunately.

All the points raised by Imran are correct however, his methods are not. He should have fought this battle in the parliament and not on the streets.
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Agreed 100%!

PTI has created and propagated this frantic and desperate assumption that "nothing will change if this March fails AND PPP/PMLN will continue playing there musical chairs like they did in the 1990s."

Biggest lie of the century.

This is not the 1990s. This is 2014. If 7 years of continuous democracy can give us a party like PTI, an acutely political youth, then we can only imagine what 20 or 50 years of democracy can give us.

Fazlu with a brilliant point atm: "SMQ made a wonderful speech, but what are we to think of the actual actions and declarations made outside the Parliament by the PTI leadership?"
 
uberkoen said:
I think a lot of people fail to understand the point put forth by the members of the assembly who admit refuse to accept resignation of Nawaz as an option.

It has nothing to do with adopting new trends. It has more to do with letting the democracy mature and take its course.

With all the hoopla around elections rigging I'm positive the next elections will be much better and use technology to ensure that rigging does not occur. They may not be perfect but they will be better. Over time, things will keep on improving.

People will realize the value of their votes once they know that if they vote wrong they will be stuck with the party for the next 5 years. This will ensure that people start voting smartly.

If we keep hitting the reset button every year then nothing will change unfortunately.

All the points raised by Imran are correct however, his methods are not. He should have fought this battle in the parliament and not on the streets.
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Just 2 years ago Nawaz Shareef demanded same from Gillani who was an elected PM. He told Gillani to resign face the inquiry and he can come back to assembly as a PM after clearing from that inquiry. But now they are saying opposite all these examples in our Politics are set by these 2 major parties (PPP and PML) so PTI is not asking something new here...
 
WebGuru said:
Just 2 years ago Nawaz Shareef demanded same from Gillani who was an elected PM. He told Gillani to resign face the inquiry and he can come back to assembly as a PM after clearing from that inquiry. But now they are saying opposite all these examples in our Politics are set by these 2 major parties (PPP and PML) so PTI is not asking something new here...
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So, Imran is then no different from Nawaz.
 
WebGuru said:
Just 2 years ago Nawaz Shareef demanded same from Gillani who was an elected PM. He told Gillani to resign face the inquiry and he can come back to assembly as a PM after clearing from that inquiry. But now they are saying opposite all these examples in our Politics are set by these 2 major parties (PPP and PML) so PTI is not asking something new here...
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I'm pretty sure he did not led a movement to the PM house, broke the doors of the Secratariat, announced civil disobedience and undermined the writ of the state. As has been said before, demanding is thoroughly democratic and consitutional. It's Imran's methodology, derived from Qadri's cultish tactics that are being condemned here.
 
uberkoen said:
I think a lot of people fail to understand the point put forth by the members of the assembly who admit refuse to accept resignation of Nawaz as an option.

It has nothing to do with adopting new trends. It has more to do with letting the democracy mature and take its course.

With all the hoopla around elections rigging I'm positive the next elections will be much better and use technology to ensure that rigging does not occur. They may not be perfect but they will be better. Over time, things will keep on improving.

People will realize the value of their votes once they know that if they vote wrong they will be stuck with the party for the next 5 years. This will ensure that people start voting smartly.

If we keep hitting the reset button every year then nothing will change unfortunately.

All the points raised by Imran are correct however, his methods are not. He should have fought this battle in the parliament and not on the streets.
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He did .Nobody listened.If had done nothing the same would have happened in the next elections.
 
blinding light said:
I'm pretty sure he did not led a movement to the PM house, broke the doors of the Secratariat and undermined the writ of the state. As has been said before, demanding is thoroughly democratic and consitutional. It's Imran's methodology, derived from Qadri's cultish tactics that are being condemned here.
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Who attacked Supreme Court after an order against them? and who was over President House Gate with their "Go Zardari Go" slogans? Zardari maybe corrupt or whatever but he was an elected President.
 
Arsal_AK said:
He did .Nobody listened.If had done nothing the same would have happened in the next elections.
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He did not. He has as many showings as Nawaz Sharif in the Parliament as Leader of the Opposition. You can verify this.

I can guarantee that PPP, ANP, MQM and all smaller parties would have agreed with IK for electoral reforms in Parliament.
 
uberkoen said:
I think a lot of people fail to understand the point put forth by the members of the assembly who admit refuse to accept resignation of Nawaz as an option.

It has nothing to do with adopting new trends. It has more to do with letting the democracy mature and take its course.

With all the hoopla around elections rigging I'm positive the next elections will be much better and use technology to ensure that rigging does not occur. They may not be perfect but they will be better. Over time, things will keep on improving.

People will realize the value of their votes once they know that if they vote wrong they will be stuck with the party for the next 5 years. This will ensure that people start voting smartly.

If we keep hitting the reset button every year then nothing will change unfortunately.

All the points raised by Imran are correct however, his methods are not. He should have fought this battle in the parliament and not on the streets.
Click to expand...

the statement above unfortunately shows your lack of understanding of how politics works in Pakistan and who these PMLN people are. Imran never had a chance to do anything in parliament. For 14 months they were sent round the hosues, that's what happens in Pakistan. They would have dragged things around and they were attempting it until Imran called their bluff and went for his dharna. tey thought he was bellowing and faking it but he wasn't. How many times have you seen this so called PM in parliament like this? how many times have you seen a session like this? this in itself is because of Imran. he has changed "democracy" in Pakistan for ever!

these bhattis, butts and khwajas, and other Punjabi baradris' (im Punjabi by the way and know who these people are and how they operate) operate in a diferent way than you think.,

the fact is the election was a fraud and you cannot have an assembly that is a fraud. Otherwise there is no democracy.
 
uberkoen said:
So, Imran is then no different from Nawaz.
Click to expand...

I am not a die hard PTI supporter or not defending them but i find it funny when these parties talk about democracy and the lecture over the democracy from those who were the part of dictators cabinet or were directly involved in similar things.
 
WebGuru said:
Who attacked Supreme Court after an order against them? and who was over President House Gate with their "Go Zardari Go" slogans? Zardari maybe corrupt or whatever but he was an elected President.
Click to expand...

We're a parliamentary system, he was not an "elected President" but I get your point.

Where have I condoned the attack on the SC? That, imo, serves the biggest indicator of PMLN's mentality which I never condoned.

Chanting slogans/demanding resignation is not unconstitutional.

As I've mentioned before, politics is a dirty power game. But the continuity of the system is crucial
 
abhi the MQM is now offering their resignations, This is going to get interesting because if the PPP suddenly find it is better for them to go for elections and bury their eternal enemy the student of Zia then we are into re-elections!
 
Arsal_AK said:
He did .Nobody listened.If had done nothing the same would have happened in the next elections.
Click to expand...

There's a whole four years to go before the next elections
He could have continued to lobby parliament for changes


Which incidentally all parties have now ageed to barring the PTI who are still asking for Nawaz's head on a stick even if the electoral reforms and due processes are initiated
 
the Great Khan said:
abhi the MQM is now offering their resignations, This is going to get interesting because if the PPP suddenly find it is better for them to go for elections and bury their eternal enemy the student of Zia then we are into re-elections!
Click to expand...

I doubt it. AH is a basket case. He's been changing his statements daily. I wouldn't bank on this, but let's see.
 
blinding light said:
We're a parliamentary system, he was not an "elected President" but I get your point.

Where have I condoned the attack on the SC? That, imo, serves the biggest indicator of PMLN's mentality which I never condoned.

Chanting slogans/demanding resignation is not unconstitutional.

As I've mentioned before, politics is a dirty power game. But the continuity of the system is crucial
Click to expand...

I look at systems and processes on a daily basis, I know what a good "system" should look like. Its a very simple formula. You input into it, it processes the input and you get some in return in other words an output.

Now if the input is rubbish, you get rubbish out.if the processing is broken you get something you don't want as output, if the oputput is wrong then you didn't input it in right.

Pakistani democracy is built on a defective input. Henc ewhy its garbage in and garbage out. The system is broken, hence you analyse the system, see where its broken and you fix it. You don't let a broken system carry on because

a) it eventually costs you too much
b) is inefficient
c) gives you the wrong type of outputs
d) eventually breaks and leaves you with a mess.

there are two certainties in this world, change and death. They are both linked, but if you don't change a system that is broken it will die and take you with it.
 
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