PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

[saadibaba]

Imran Khan announced recently while addressing Bahawalpur rally that he will lead ‘Islamabad Tsunami March’ comprising over 10 lakh participants on August 14 if PTI’s demands are not fulfilled. The five demands to the PML-N govt. are:

1. Who was behind Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s victory speech at 11:20pm on May 11, 2013 election night.

2. Why was former chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry rewarded? Why Returning Officers weren’t working under election commission? What was the role of ex Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry?

3. What was the role of caretaker government?

4. Who changed results after getting votes rejected in 35 polling stations.

5. Election commission must resign

These demands seem quite vague and rhetorical. How can the govt. explain the role of the care taker govt. when it was made through consensus of all big parties. Basically, these demands can never be met by the sitting govt. unless they confess to rigging and announce fresh elections. So the Tsunami March is happening, unless some grave security concern arises and shuts down everything.

Some questions for the insafians.

What will be the objectives of the March. Paralyze Islamabad? Create so much chaos and upheaval that army is forced to step in and take over. How can a revolution come without the intervention of our Army, who right now have their hands full with operation in NW. So what is IK's grand plan? Neutral setup to come in and announcement of fresh elections while we are at war. What if "neutral set up" is made up of technocrats who are only answerable to the army and they decide that no elections can be held till operation Zarb-e-Azb is over, which can be years. IK can't be that naive to not know all that. Why is he still going along with his plan. Why does he want to topple the govt. when we need stability the most. Why is the champion of democracy paving the way for a military take over. I understand that this is not ideal democracy. Elections were rigged but still PML-N was leading in the polls so all rigging did was increased the margin of victory. I understand IK wants to put pressure on govt. so they don't repeat this next time around, but in doing that, do they want the whole system to be wrapped up and we go back to care taker/military rule letting the democracy process to go back to zero. And then what, same party and leaders will come crying after 5-10 years that they were not allowed to finish their term and govern. Why are insafians in their zeal to get rid of Nawaz not realizing what they are going to put the country through.

 

[Down2Earth]

It'll be more interesting when PTI MNA's tender their resignations

 

[zimmz]

Too many questions from yourside, you better do a march instead to force us for answers

Anyway I guess it's just another way of putting pressure on gov to either give up defending 'dhandli' or least they are forced to do electoral reforms. I predict the march will not happen and both sides will be on table to discuss the way out. Already PMLN darbari ministers are changing tone and talking about 'discussions' with PTI.

PTI/IK is going to put further pressure by giving them a 'chance' to avoid tusnami march by investigating 4 seats.

 

[godzilla]

its difficult to know if theres a hidden agenda, but theyve been quite vocal about what they are trying to achieve. from what ve read it seems theyre principle goal is to fix the electoral system, no matter who gets into power, and the politics to date seem to be building up a case, whether its election fraud, economic fraud or nepotism to make it clear that a fixed electoral system is crucial. to that end i completely agree. as the fifth most populous country on the planet, its shocking how far behind the rest of the world pakistan is, and its clear to any neutral observer that this is principally because of mismanagement and embezzlement.

i would guess the march would make a strong statement that the nation wont put up with the fraud any longer. what happens after that, whether its a coup, or a caretaker government etc, isnt as important as getting the process cleaned. i think he's right that if it isnt fixed, and if perpetrators are not held accountable, the next election will be the same, and the country will continue to suffer heavily.

it seems too that the fraud runs very deep, and that the country is being run by a self enriching oligarchy. like ik, im a complete pacifist, so i think hes doing the right thing by firstly trying all legal routes, and now protesting peacefully. will the threat of terrorism looming, and concerns that once the operation is over pakistan will become another iraq, i really hope that the responses to his protests, however they crystallise, wont be violent.

in short, from my understanding, i think the motivation and ambition is very simply, justice.

for what its worth, im not sure i agree with the perspective that the pml-n would have won irrespective of the fraud, polls are never really very accurate.

 

[blinding light]

I don't doubt his intentions the slightest, but this anti-govt rhetoric is going to cost Pakistan most especially at this crucial juncture.

I read an article in either Dawn or Pakistan Today about how students from various universities were alleging support to IK for this march, but most of the urban class, especially shop-keepers etc were seriously against this as it was a way of disrupting business and endangering their property.

I don't see this march as a good idea, personally.

 

[Laparwah]

PTI and TUQ should form an alliance. This is the big daddy, something will have to give now. Can't take a million people to Islamabad then return empty handed.

 

[saadibaba]

its difficult to know if theres a hidden agenda, but theyve been quite vocal about what they are trying to achieve. from what ve read it seems theyre principle goal is to fix the electoral system, no matter who gets into power, and the politics to date seem to be building up a case, whether its election fraud, economic fraud or nepotism to make it clear that a fixed electoral system is crucial. to that end i completely agree. as the fifth most populous country on the planet, its shocking how far behind the rest of the world pakistan is, and its clear to any neutral observer that this is principally because of mismanagement and embezzlement.

i would guess the march would make a strong statement that the nation wont put up with the fraud any longer. what happens after that, whether its a coup, or a caretaker government etc, isnt as important as getting the process cleaned. i think he's right that if it isnt fixed, and if perpetrators are not held accountable, the next election will be the same, and the country will continue to suffer heavily.

it seems too that the fraud runs very deep, and that the country is being run by a self enriching oligarchy. like ik, im a complete pacifist, so i think hes doing the right thing by firstly trying all legal routes, and now protesting peacefully. will the threat of terrorism looming, and concerns that once the operation is over pakistan will become another iraq, i really hope that the responses to his protests, however they crystallise, wont be violent.

in short, from my understanding, i think the motivation and ambition is very simply, justice.

for what its worth, im not sure i agree with the perspective that the pml-n would have won irrespective of the fraud, polls are never really very accurate.

Motivation may be pure but it may end up causing adverse consequences. Toppling a govt. in order to get the process cleaned has been tried many times before and has failed every time. The process cannot become clean overnight, it will take several elections, a lot of political maturity from the people of Pakistan and most of all a continued democratic tradition with no interruptions. The day PTI accepted the election results despite reservations, that should have been the day they should have decided that they will not disrupt the govt. and let it finish its five years. They have sizable representation in the parliament, they should raise the issue there. They should do rallies, peaceful protests, come on media and present their case but threatening the govt. that if there demands are not met they will not let the govt. work anymore. That is not very democratic. It automatically opens the door for undemocratic forces and so far one can just observe that the political parties and leaders or media personalities which are closest to the establishment are the most excited about this march and IK knowingly or unknowingly is getting played by them.

 

[zane_]

I am still awaiting Immy's evidence on 35 punctures. I am sure there were irregularities but I'm not convinced that the elections were systematically rigged. That said, I would like to be convinced.

 

[KarachiKing]

If someone can explain me the point of this long march and its aims then please do. I am at a loss.

Imran Khan has been holding one jalsa after another and repeats the same 'char halqoon wala mantra again and again and then moves to the next one. What is his endgame? When he is questioned he evades it. I specifically watched 3 interviews of his in the past 3 days to figure out what his goal is but Im none the wises. Always evades questions and says he is keeping his cards close to the chest.

Fact is that even if PTI resigns from its seats its a very small number and PML-N has simple majority in any case.

There is no doubts about the fact that there was rigging but he has been shooting off his mouth a lot and making a lot of allegations without any evidence for the past year which puts him in the same boat as the politicians we all despise and why we voted for IK in the first place.

 

[blinding light]

PTI and TUQ should form an alliance. This is the big daddy, something will have to give now. Can't take a million people to Islamabad then return empty handed.

IMO, that would be political suicide.

I am still awaiting Immy's evidence on 35 punctures. I am sure there were irregularities but I'm not convinced that the elections were systematically rigged. That said, I would like to be convinced.

If someone can explain me the point of this long march and its aims then please do. I am at a loss.

Imran Khan has been holding one jalsa after another and repeats the same 'char halqoon wala mantra again and again and then moves to the next one. What is his endgame? When he is questioned he evades it. I specifically watched 3 interviews of his in the past 3 days to figure out what his goal is but Im none the wises. Always evades questions and says he is keeping his cards close to the chest.

Fact is that even if PTI resigns from its seats its a very small number and PML-N has simple majority in any case.

There is no doubts about the fact that there was rigging but he has been shooting off his mouth a lot and making a lot of allegations without any evidence for the past year which puts him in the same boat as the politicians we all despise and why we voted for IK in the first place.

There may have even been some form of systematic rigging (its N-league, after all). But the question is, what is implied by the term that "awaam ka mandate was stolen?" Ideally, each and every vote should be accounted for. But was this stolen mandate enough to change the entire set-up of things? Would recounting and re-assessment make PTI the winning party with 100+ seats and by extension, rendering IK the true PM of Pakistan?

I'm afraid the answer is no to the said questions. I remember reading somewhere that PTI did not even contest in some 75+ seats in NA in the first place as they did not have enough candidates. IK's claim towards the elections: "Don't look at the candidate, look at the ideology" itself conveyed lack of confidence in the contestants under the PTI banner (I've a friend who is based in some village in Punjab, and visited the place again to vote. She claimed that the resident daku was contesting on a PTI ticket, and this was true for some other regions as well..)

Again, personal anecdotes aside - what is important is to explore the true scope of this stolen mandate: is it merely a rhetorical device? Or is it enough to seriously challenge the legitimacy of the present democratically elected govt?

My personal opinion is that PMLN must investigate those 4 constituencies, but IK needs to come up with more serious questions about the entire electoral reformation process. And also, a crucial realisation: there is minimal scope of true idealism in Pakistan at this point in time. What is required is cold, cut-hard realisitic solutions to the severe loopholes in our system. System ki baladasti honi chahiye, hukmuraan/siyasatdaan ki nahin.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Saadi

First of all, your analysis is spot on. Imran's demands are vague, and there is no way PMLN will comply with them without compromising themselves and the elections. But you have to see everything in the context of what PTI is trying to achieve here.

So taking a step back, I mentioned multiple times (when people kept asking the reasons behind the numerous jalsas) that the jalsas are actually an election campaign by PTI for midterm elections. Imran believes that morally, he has a strong case against rigging and he thinks that is enough to endanger the govt's survival. Imran feels that he has built a strong case with the govt, EC, and courts clearly not doing much about rigging. And now, he has what he needs to go on the attack and at the same time say that he is the real democrat coz he is fighting to establish real democracy. Jalsas were never the real push to topple the govt, they were just meant to put the party in campaign mode. Tsunami march will be that push.

The most important question that you asked is about objectives of the march. IN short, he wants to topple the govt. And here are some of his quotes from 3 of his most recent interviews:

- This govt is illegal
- We will not let this govt survive

But, at the same time, he said something very interesting when asked about what will he exactly do on the 14th. He said a true leader never reveals all of his cards. This is now a game of chess, and you will have to wait to see what I will do.

I dont agree with you on some points here. There was a lot of rigging and I am certain PTI would have won Punjab. You can go with any pre election polls that you want. But fact of the matter is that when they had to resort to such immense rigging in their fort of Lahore, what do you think happened in other places? You can argue about this all you want, but that's exactly the point. Investigate rigging properly to see what happened and what was the extent.

This govt has no right to rule. What is the difference between army rule and this govt? Both dont have mandates to rule. As much as I hated zardari, I wanted him to complete his 5 years coz PPP hasda mandate. They got a lot of sympathy vote. This govt has no mandate whatsoever.

If army installs a technocratic govt, they will have to hold elections in a few months coz otherwise, all parties will go against the army and that sort of pressure is not what the army can take at this point in time. Just my assessment. And even if they dont, like I said, there is no real difference between a fake govt and an army govt in this case. But that's the worst case scenario.

By the way, I dont think Imran is getting played by anyone. Check his interviews and statements since the elections. They all add up to this perfectly. This was always the plan from PTI if their demands were not met

 

[Mamoon]

A grand circus on 14th August. Can't get better than this. Tickets anyone?

 

[waqar_ahmad]

I am expecting some twists before 14th. There are reports of PTI workers and leaders, including Imran being placed udner house arrest before the 14th. Would be a gross miscalculation on noora's part me thinks

 

[blinding light]

IK already said he'll call off the 14th Aug march if the SC complies and opens up investigation in the 4 constituencies.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

I heard that news too but waiting for something official from PTI. I hope it's not true

 

[Hawkeye]

When Nawaz, PTI and rest of the parties did "LONG MARCH" for restoration of a very 'honest' and pure CJ Iftikhar Choudhary, it was hailed as "GREAT" and a show of "democracy".

This time the intention and goal is even more sacred and important. There can never be democracy unless we see electoral reforms ensuring transparent elections. NS brothers are trying hard to portray it as an attempt to "fail" democracy ) Even PPP/Zardari were way way way better in this regard, they didn't snatch the right of protests from other parties, heck, even allowed a long march.

India adopted electronic-voting decades back and reaping the benefits of democracy. About time someone who is actually NOT a crook and corrupt like rest of the parties STAND UP like a rock in Pakistan.

Is there anyone else besides Imran Khan who can bring about this change and is not part of the status-quo of this corrupt political system? Absolutely no. The PPP, Nooras, PMLQ are all united in looting this country and running the show via corrupt system.

The nation will stand up with PTI and Imran come 14th August

 

[zimmz]

I heard that news too but waiting for something official from PTI. I hope it's not true

IK should be careful here. Nooras are known to bend down just for delaying things. I doubt they are sincere enough to go ahead with investigation of 4 seats.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x20t1ym" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20t1ym_nawaz-government-welcomes-imran-khan-s-conditions-to-take-back-tsunami-march-call_news" target="_blank">Nawaz Government welcomes Imran Khan's...</a> <i>von <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/videosfever" target="_blank">videosfever</a></i>

 

[waqar_ahmad]

^ In his speech, Imran said that time for verification of votes in those 4 constituencies has now gone, and he gave a completely different set of demands which will be impossible to fulfill for the govt. Basically, the march was in no matter what. And this is what PTI workers and supporters want.

Now, if delays coz of this tactic from PMLN, it will be a blunder. Politics is all about timing and momentum. Nooras knowthis march will be huge and they are scared. That's why they just showed flexibility. But they just want to delay the march coz afterwards, Imran would have lost the momentum and then he can forget about anyone listening to his demands, EVER! He will lose a lot of voters if he takes back this call.

I will go as far as saying that delaying this long march will finish off Imran as a politician for the next few years at least.

I'm hoping he wont though

 

[saadibaba]

^^^

But on the other hand if IK does not show flexibility than he will be labelled as hard headed and bent on toppling the democratic set up, working in collusion with the army etc. Media will ask questions as well....why during this time of war is Imran not showing any cooperation. I think if he is keeping calling off the march as an option, he should do it soon otherwise like you said, if he does that days before the march, it will be a massive set back to his supporters and he may never be able to gather them again for such a march.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

He has show enough flexibility already. It's been over a year!

It doesn't matter when he calls off the march. It will hurt him and people will not back him in the future coz they won't trust him to get tough with the govt.

He must not call it off.

He's saying do verifications within 2 weeks and he'll call it off. But he added that if rigging is found then all halkas must be opened. Govt can't have that.

Plus imagine govt's embarrassment if rigging if found. They will have no moral authority after that. I don't think govt will let that happen

I think he's showing flexibility on the surface only. He's still planning for the march

 

[PTI]

Lust for life- Fahad Hussain-What is motivating people to join Azadi March

Link: http://tribune.com.pk/story/737978/lust-for-life/

When the roaring waves of PTI’s tsunami crash on to the political shores of Islamabad on Independence Day, much could go wrong — or right.
Known questions are chasing unknown answers like hounds after a rabbit. Uncertainty and dread are raining down as the system braces for another mega-shock. Constant turbulence is back yet again to haunt the jinns of democracy.
But wait. Turbulence should not be a natural state of being — a default mode screen saver — for a nation thirsting for a semblance of order. Something, somewhere is out of joint. And it is not hard to fathom.
Lust for power may explain this constant state of turbulence, but not fully. There is something else there too; some X factor that is forcing people to come out and shout aloud; some force, or sentiment, or emotion that is propelling them into action. In their eyes, there is a hunger. But for what?
Look around you. Look at your life. Look at the people around you. Look at all that you see is wrong and unjust. Do you feel angry, frustrated, depressed, and helpless? Do you feel marginalised, waylaid and voiceless? Do you feel exploited, manipulated and repressed? Yes, there is enough emotion to move mountains.
Emotions, however, do not fully translate into specific political demands. They drive movements, but they rarely shape policy. The hunger for a better life may not mean bringing down the government but it does mean a refusal to accept life as it exists now. It does mean a rejection of the status quo that blurs the line between right and wrong. It does mean a validation of the basic premise of democracy and social contract: rulers rule so citizens prosper. And it certainly — in fact definitely — means the willingness, readiness and eagerness for a struggle to win the life so richly deserved.
Turbulence is made of this stuff. It is such stuff that lights a spark and triggers an avalanche. For it taps into a deep yearning for human dignity; a dignity that is violated every day in every corner of our country. This is how we live in Pakistan. This is how our parents and their parents lived here — under dark shadows of injustice and inequality, incapable or unwilling to grab the rulers by their throats and force them to ensure the provision of the citizens’ fundamental and inalienable natural-born rights. Decades have passed by, and we continue to suffer a system where men are not equal before law; where the poor and marginalised are left to die; where the weak are tortured in police stations while the strong rape the law. We continue to suffer a system where justice is for the moneyed and the privileged, where power is for those who can afford it, and merit is for those who can buy it. It is in this system that cartels flourish, where leaders are in the business of politics, and money is made on the backs of children deprived of education, health, clean water and a basic right to a happy life.
And the rule of law? Yes what of this rule of law that forms the bedrock of modern societies? This rule of law is the foundation of our Constitution and our entire justice system but is mocked every time a powerful man or woman breaks it and gets away with it. The lawyers turned out in their thousands a few years ago to demand this rule of law. They transformed their passion into a movement, and this movement unleashed the deep desire within each of us to reform our society by adhering strictly to the rule of law. The movement restored the deposed chief justice, but it could not ensure the rule of law. In fact, the lawyers drowned in their own irony when they hoisted themselves above the law. The revolution does indeed eat its own children.
On Independence Day this year, the nation will yearn for the country that the Quaid visualised before the vultures ripped into its flesh and tore it apart. Imran Khan may want an audit of elections or even mid-term polls, but these political bullet-points do not even scratch the surface of the rot that we live in. Bombing a ruin will only shift the rubble. It is rebuilding that is needed.
No sir, Metro bus is not rebuilding. No, flyovers are not rebuilding. Neither are underpasses, laptops or bullet trains. This is like curing a sick person by buying him an Armani suit. Rebuilding starts from a very simple but powerful concept: Right versus Wrong. Yes, this is a moral equation, but it is also the root of every law. If law is supreme, Right reigns over Wrong. See, that’s not too complicated now.
This emotion is then what drives people to challenge their rulers. And they do so when they have had enough of hypocrisy, lying and cheating; when they’ve had enough of state brutality and injustice; when they’ve seen too many powerful people get away with murder while the weak rot in cells. They do so when they’ve had enough of exploitation, suppression and abuse; when they’ve had enough of injustice being thrust down their throats in the name of law.
Have we had enough? The moment will come.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 20th, 2014.

 

[Kianig89]

lets hope thi dharna brings out something substantial

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Only thing that would be substantial is getting rid of this govt

 

[corneredtiger85292]

I feel something truly seismic is going to happen because of this march. INSHALLAH it will be the beginning of naya Pakistan

 

[Kianig89]

Alert: N-League decides against any resistance for PTI's march what' the motive behind this

 

[PTI]

Alert: N-League decides against any resistance for PTI's march what' the motive behind this

Any source bro?

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Army reluctant to March on D Chowk citing security concerns.

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't think an entire government can come down because of this march.

Not possible.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Alert: N-League decides against any resistance for PTI's march what' the motive behind this

They dont have a choice. This isnt a nobody like Qadri whose people they can manhandle. PTI has proper power and influence. Cant rough them up

I don't think an entire government can come down because of this march.

Not possible.

You undersestimate power of the people. SO many protesters blocking the capital for days. Let's see any govt absorb that.

 

[Hawkeye]

You undersestimate power of the people. SO many protesters blocking the capital for days. Let's see any govt absorb that.

Not sure if PTI has any plans of 'dharna', i.e staying there for days. Has Imran announced it?

Even if they do, I can see nooras using punjab police's gullu butts at the end resulting in bloodshed :/

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Not sure if PTI has any plans of 'dharna', i.e staying there for days. Has Imran announced it?

Even if they do, I can see nooras using punjab police's gullu butts at the end resulting in bloodshed :/

If they descend on Islamabad, they wont leave easily. Think about it from Imran's perspective. If he collects all these people and then just let's them disperse after a few speeches, where doe that put his politics? This is do or die, for PTI and PMLN.

Imran said in two interviews that he has very specific plans for 14th. But only him and his close aides are aware of them. And they will unveil them on the 14th.

As for nooras roughing up the protesters, that's not likely to happen. This govt is very very weak, mainly due to the blunders they have made. The army has already distanced itself from their plans. And I wont be surprised if even the police are reluctant to obey them, IF they are asked to manhandle the protesers

 

[Vegitto1]

Btw how amazing would it be if this 14th August March is a Smoke-Screen and instead the plan is to have major protests (until demands are met) outside Jati Umra, on Mall Rd - Lahore, Teen Talwar - Karachi and D-Chowk - Islamabad, Simultaneously!

Imran Khan in Lahore, Asad Umar in Islamabad, Shah Mehmood Q, Hashmi and Shaftaq Mehmood at Jati Umra and Arif Alvi in Karachi!

 

[waqar_ahmad]

^ That would be some epic trolling

 

[waqar goraya]

Btw how amazing would it be if this 14th August March is a Smoke-Screen and instead the plan is to have major protests (until demands are met) outside Jati Umra, on Mall Rd - Lahore, Teen Talwar - Karachi and D-Chowk - Islamabad, Simultaneously!

Imran Khan in Lahore, Asad Umar in Islamabad, Shah Mehmood Q, Hashmi and Shaftaq Mehmood at Jati Umra and Arif Alvi in Karachi!

TUQ should have led his supporters to Jati Umra with 14 dead bodies.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Nawaz Govt. to put 300 containers in Islamabad to stop PTI long march

Every day, nooras coming up with new tactics to stop the march. I have never seen a govt so scared

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ontainers-in-Islamabad-to-stop-PTI-long-march

 

[waqar goraya]

This letter was published in Dawn newspaper today.

REFERENCE ‘Charter and after’ (July 6). Raza Rabbani has called out for dealing with the danger to the spirit of the Charter of Democracy signed in 2006.

From Justice Muneer to Iftikhar Chaudhry our superior judiciary has always legitimised autocratic rule and martial law. The Charter had rightly declared the unacceptability of any judge who took the oath under a PCO.

Yet both the PPP and PML(N) turned the whole country upside down in reinstating a judge who had taken the oath under the PCO as a judge in the Balochistan High Court, then the Supreme Court and finally as the dictator’s selected Chief Justice.

Having served their purpose the generals asked him to leave but he “refused to resign”: the three most touted words for gallantry and bravery. Although “refused to resign” could also mean “wanted to continue”, working with the dictator that is, like in the preceding years.

He mixed with hordes of lawyers and political supporters in countrywide processions and served as their mascot. Many lives were lost. They sacrificed a lot to make him functional again. Even a non-functional judge would be overwhelmed with gratitude for this relentless support.

Nawaz Sharif himself led the final charge. Aitzaz Ahsan was in the driver’s seat. Not to have a soft corner for these leaders would be impossible. Judicial tradition would require him to opt out (resign) on his own volition. But he loved to be chief justice: whether it was with a dictator or democracy was secondary.

Nawaz Sharif benefited most in the ‘payback’. He settled scores with Pervez Musharraf and appeared to win the 2013 elections. That Aitzaz Ahsan got nothing for all his toilsome driving is unfortunate.

When it suited them, the signatories themselves broke their pledge: “Never to accept a PCO judge”. The Charter was, in fact, just a ploy to get back to power and have their hands deep in the kitty once again. There was no love lost for true democracy.

Capt. S. Afaq Rizvi

Karachi

Captain Rizvi sahib has a hilarious style.

 

[DRS]

I believe the outcome of this whole march thing is going to be downright futile. The hype prior to such events and expectations of positive results are undoubtedly sky high, though like always, nothing would be achieved aside from some people getting an additional dihari and especially the bus drivers who generally go along the march due to being on payroll.

Although, It is imperative to state that I have been sensing nervousness in the tone of all these politicians who are at Dhandli's end including the Nan Chanay, Siri paye, The head of our state, who may have gone to Saudi Arabia to pray for stay of his government.

 

[0tt0man]

Nawaz Govt. to put 300 containers in Islamabad to stop PTI long march

Every day, nooras coming up with new tactics to stop the march. I have never seen a govt so scared

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ontainers-in-Islamabad-to-stop-PTI-long-march

That is standard procedure to stop processions. Musharraf did it during the Lawyers March and the PPP employed this method on the GT road to stall Sharif's Long March rally.

Noon is simply taking a leaf out of it predecessors book. And these containers are usually very effective. I remember instances of a number of people crossing the Margalla hills to bypass these containers last time.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

^ I know it is standard procedure but if you look at pmln reaction to it every day you can figure out the nervousness and fear they have about this long march

 

[Saeed]

Pakistanis need to sing songs like this against Nawaz.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Some more retarded moves by nooras.

Govt to celebrate independence day for one month, from Aug 1 to Aug 31.
Army to take over Islamabad for 3 months. Govt pitching army against the protesters.
SO much panic I love it

Malik Moshin should be happy about this. Now he can celebrate independence day for a whole month.

 

[wasim-fan]

Imran khan looks like an idea which is not ready or outdated. I loved the man. But now quite frankly, there is little to no depth in his thought process politically. Arguably a great leader in his own way, but the sheer disintegration of potential to a mockery which is what he represents now is saddening. I feel disappointed.

 

[godzilla]

Imran khan looks like an idea which is not ready or outdated. I loved the man. But now quite frankly, there is little to no depth in his thought process politically. Arguably a great leader in his own way, but the sheer disintegration of potential to a mockery which is what he represents now is saddening. I feel disappointed.

everyone is entitled to an opinion, but out of interest, do you feel the alternatives are or have been ready or are more current?

in which case, given the country has been ruled by the ppp and pml for so long, how do you explain the horrific lack of progress particularly in comparison to the country's peers? i understand that just because you think imran is unsuitable for politics does not mean that you think the ppp or pmln are - but of the three, im not sure i understand why there is an opinion that the other two are better for the country.

 

[wasim-fan]

everyone is entitled to an opinion, but out of interest, do you feel the alternatives are or have been ready or are more current?

in which case, given the country has been ruled by the ppp and pml for so long, how do you explain the horrific lack of progress particularly in comparison to the country's peers? i understand that just because you think imran is unsuitable for politics does not mean that you think the ppp or pmln are - but of the three, im not sure i understand why there is an opinion that the other two are better for the country.

Of the three, he as man could be best alternative. But they have not gone out of rebel mode to governance mode. I have seen no evolution.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Of the three, he as man could be best alternative. But they have not gone out of rebel mode to governance mode. I have seen no evolution.

And yet, legislation wise, tax collection wise, institution building wise, police independence wise, KP is ahead of the rest.I wonder why that is

 

[godzilla]

Of the three, he as man could be best alternative. But they have not gone out of rebel mode to governance mode. I have seen no evolution.

i dont think i understood any of that.

 

[saadibaba]

So looks like a lot of planning in underway by PTI and there are no plans to back down.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1122559/pti-leaves-out-sheikh-rashid-from-august-14-preparations

Viva la revolución!

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Imran has said this is going to be do or die. There's no backing down.

Now the arrogant nooras are trying to contact Imran for talks but it's too late.

Imran has said he will sleep on the streets until demands are met.

Also pti is keeping final destination of the march a secret. It's not going to be d-chowk.

 

[Saeed]

Nawaz sharif is no better than his arab friends when it comes to dealing with anti-government club.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

He can manhandle qadri but not a mainstream party with such immense street power as PTI

They will try to stop protesters from entering Islamabad but they will avoid any direct confrontation with those who will be in the march

 

[Fastandfurious]

Lets gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo PTI!!!!!!!

 

[Hawkeye]

Imran has said he won't back down now till mid-term elections. I don't see that happening, how long Imran will sit there?

I'm getting worried, there will be bloodshed.

Even if mid-term elections become a possibility, how can there be transparent elections under current electoral system?

 

[Vulcan]

Nihari Sharif's leg shivering?

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Imran has said he won't back down now till mid-term elections. I don't see that happening, how long Imran will sit there?

I'm getting worried, there will be bloodshed.

Even if mid-term elections become a possibility, how can there be transparent elections under current electoral system?

You should watch his latest interview with nadeem malik. He wants midterm elections under a reformed electoral system. Not under the current one

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Nihari Sharif's leg shivering?

First they were begging zardari. Now chaudrys. Halat kharaab hai nooron ke

 

[Vulcan]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x22lq5g" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22lq5g_chaudhary-nisar-met-imran-khan-advice-him-to-stop-long-march_news" target="_blank"></a> <i><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/zemtv" target="_blank"></a></i>​

Interior Minster met Imran Khan today.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

^ Imran has denied these rumors apparently

 

[waqar goraya]

Govt trying to steal PTI’s thunder?

On August 11, just days before the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) plans to hold a major anti-government rally in the capital, the Ministry of Planning and Development has provided the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) government a perfect opportunity to bring the country’s political leadership together under one roof.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is expected to be the chief guest at the launch of ‘Vision 2025’, while leaders from all major political parties, including the PTI, will be invited to the launch of the programme, widely considered the brainchild of the head of the Planning Commission and federal minister Ahsan Iqbal.

While observers feel that it is highly unlikely that PTI chief Imran Khan will attend — given that accepting the government’s invitation may undermine his agenda for the rally on Independence Day — many commentators praised the government, saying that if all major political parties do show up to the event, it will serve to isolate the PTI.

People from all walks of life, including politicians, military officers, bureaucrats, businessmen, teachers, writers, artists and journalists are expected to attend the launch of ‘Vision 2025’.

Sources told Dawn that ministry officials are giving final touches to plans for the event, which is significant given its timing.

The PTI has called for march on Islamabad on August 14 to register its protest against alleged widespread rigging in the 2013 general elections.

Over the past few days, senior PML-N leaders, including Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, tried to reach out to Mr Khan by offering him talks over his demands for electoral reform, but the PTI chief appears adamant on going ahead with the demonstration on the country’s 68th Independence Day.

The government, on the other hand, claims that the event has nothing to do with politics, as it had been planned long before Mr Khan’s announcement.

“Yes, we are inviting leaders from all mainstream political parties, including Imran Khan, since this will be a national event,” said Asim Khan Niazi, media coordinator for the ruling PML-N and a close associate of Ahsan Iqbal, the main architect of the Vision 2025 programme.

“We consider Imran Khan a prominent Pakistani and an important politician,” he said. Moreover, he said, Mr Khan’s party was in power in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and, therefore, his participation in the ceremony was very important.

Mr Niazi said formal invitations would be sent in the next few days. He said the prime minister would unveil the ministry’s vision for the future to get national ownership for the programme.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1122542/govt-trying-to-steal-ptis-thunder

But this comment from a Dawn visitor at the end of the column actually made me laugh.

Great news!!! Vision is a good thing!!!!

 

[saadibaba]

^^^

Yeah, savvy ploy by N-league to criticize the PTI leaders for not being part of such an important event assuming IK does not attend which I believe he will not.

Apparently, this guy Ahsan Iqbal is an Ivy leaguer and quite learned. Still he spouts the same paid servant (ghulam) garbage as any other N-league leader. Either he is extremely pragmatic thinking the best way to help the country is to join a party likely to be in power so he can actually do some good rather than sitting on the sidelines or it's all about power.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

^^ They can try any ploy they want now. Doesnt matter. They have been trying quite a few tricks since the march was announced. They used to mock Imran, and now Shahbaz and Dar have been trying to contact him but Imran isnt even taking their calls.

As for ivy leaguer, many feudals also send their kids to big shot schools. It doesnt change their mentality. The same applies for Ahsan Iqbal. The whole party is made up of darbaris who just say yes sir to the sharifs

 

[saadibaba]

Fresh elections! Wow...pretty blunt from IK.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1122848/imran-asks-senior-pti-leaders-to-be-prepared-for-arrests-sources

Not sure how IK hopes to achieve his goals with a peaceful protest, really hope there is no bloodshed.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

It was quite obvious that he wanted midterm elections. Everything was just a build up. Jalsas were start of the election campaign.

Nothing surprising there at all. His interview with nadeem malik in this regard was very good. Worth watching

 

[Lords]

Now suddenly Nawaz is a big fat villain and Zardari is villain no more.

Its all about IK's ambition to become a PM and he will criticize even if Gandhi was the PM. He can do anything to become a PM for once in his life.
He will deal with anyone or criticize anyone to achieve his ambition. Only one thing goes in his favor and people still have hopes from him is because he doesnt have no personal corruption charges against him. May be he is very honest ,never got a chance to do corruption or too good in hiding his deeds but regardless he is cleanest major politician in Pakistan.

Dont expect too much from Tsunami, last time it was just a storm in a tea cup. I dont expect much of the changes in national political arena however his own party may see some changes.

 

[Waseem]

Now suddenly Nawaz is a big fat villain and Zardari is villain no more.

Its all about IK's ambition to become a PM and he will criticize even if Gandhi was the PM. He can do anything to become a PM for once in his life.
He will deal with anyone or criticize anyone to achieve his ambition. Only one thing goes in his favor and people still have hopes from him is because he doesnt have no personal corruption charges against him. May be he is very honest ,never got a chance to do corruption or too good in hiding his deeds but regardless he is cleanest major politician in Pakistan.

Dont expect too much from Tsunami, last time it was just a storm in a tea cup. I dont expect much of the changes in national political arena however his own party may see some changes.

Yeah surely, his whole life is living proof that he can go to any length for personal gains. He gave up cricket, destroyed married life, living away from his kids, criticizing real democratic leaders like Nawaz ONLY to become Prime Minister. What a selfish and greedy person!!

 

[Lords]

Did you expect him to play even in his 60s. He retired from cricket, he didnt give up cricket.

His married life was a stillborn child. An old man marrying a foreign girl half his age is a recepie of disaster. He got divorce for his own wrong doing, not because of his love for the nation.
He is no better in the terms of persoanal character. He has only one thing under his belt which keep him relevent, that is he was captain when pakistan won world cup.

 

[Waseem]

Did you expect him to play even in his 60s. He retired from cricket, he didnt give up cricket.

His married life was a stillborn child. An old man marrying a foreign girl half his age is a recepie of disaster. He got divorce for his own wrong doing, not because of his love for the nation.
He is no better in the terms of persoanal character. He has only one thing under his belt which keep him relevent, that is he was captain when pakistan won world cup.

Don't think likes of Wasim, Waqar etc are playing cricket? He could have earned millions had he decided to stay connected to cricket as coach, commentator, etc? So you think his divorce had nothing to do with his involvement in politics? Only thing you possibly could give him credit was just a captain of winning team lol GREAT!

 

[Noora420]

Don't think likes of Wasim, Waqar etc are playing cricket? He could have earned millions had he decided to stay connected to cricket as coach, commentator, etc? So you think his divorce had nothing to do with his involvement in politics? Only thing you possibly could give him credit was just a captain of winning team lol GREAT!

If issue was his married life then Jemaima won't be at good terms with Imran. She herself admitted that our marriage broke because Imran wasn't able to move here or give his family ample time. Imran could have easily earned much more while staying in touch with cricket, instead he took on a bigger cause. He has fame all over the world and I don't think he needs any post in Pakistan to be recognised and respected in Pakistan and all over the world. He is one of the few true son of the nation and people who haven't done anything for their nation have the audacity to criticise him.

 

[Saeed]

Now suddenly Nawaz is a big fat villain and Zardari is villain no more.

Its all about IK's ambition to become a PM and he will criticize even if Gandhi was the PM. He can do anything to become a PM for once in his life.
He will deal with anyone or criticize anyone to achieve his ambition. Only one thing goes in his favor and people still have hopes from him is because he doesnt have no personal corruption charges against him. May be he is very honest ,never got a chance to do corruption or too good in hiding his deeds but regardless he is cleanest major politician in Pakistan. As for dealing with his criticizers, Nawaz is the last man you should use to make up an argument against Imran Khan.

Dont expect too much from Tsunami, last time it was just a storm in a tea cup. I dont expect much of the changes in national political arena however his own party may see some changes.

Suddenly huh? Are you new to Pakistani politics? Well we certainly do not have Gandhi as our politician or equivalent, not that he is an example to follow for Pakistanis. So I would be extremely happy if Imran Khan becomes our PM.

 

[Down2Earth]

It would suck for imran if there are mid term elections and pmln wins again

Nothing will come of this march as the million march won't be allowed into islamabad. But we can hope something positive comes from this and it'll be interesting to see if mqm and ppp join in. If they do then it's over for noora

 

[waqar goraya]

What is wrong in desiring premiership if you are popular enough and at least financially upright, more over better than all the other options a troll here can give us ?

 

[MRSN]

It would suck for imran if there are mid term elections and pmln wins again

Nothing will come of this march as the million march won't be allowed into islamabad. But we can hope something positive comes from this and it'll be interesting to see if mqm and ppp join in. If they do then it's over for noora

Mqm and PPP may not officially join in but they are already behind PTI through their media bashing of pml n and their soft corner for PTI..

 

[PTI]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Saqlain Bajwa(Special Branch)told <a href="https://twitter.com/ShireenMazari1">@ShireenMazari1</a> 2 tell her family 2 leave her house as she is being put under house arrest. Govt losing it</p>— Imaan Z Hazir (@ImaanZHazir) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImaanZHazir/statuses/495859409164062720">August 3, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[waqar goraya]

If they actually do the stupidity of arresting leaders/workers and use other undemocratic ways to stop the march then other political parties will surely go all out against PML N, other wise PPP will do their best to save the status quo which suits their dynastic politics.

 

[Vegitto1]

PML-N will never make the mistake of putting a key PTI worker under House Arrest. It would be political suicide!

 

[Kianig89]

internal sources say Long march will flop i hope i'm wrong

 

[Lords]

An insightful article with some good facts. Though i cannot verify the facts propounded in the article but if true they make a solid case against the hue and cry from PTI.

Also note that the author is related to FG Ibrahim so make your own judgement.

Ten truths about electoral rigging

The PTI and the PML-N are unable to resolve their political differences. Therefore on August 14, Islamabad is bracing for a clash, which will test Pakistan’s democracy. Imran Khan, who will lead the Azadi march from Lahore to Islamabad, calls it a “decisive battle”. The tempo for the long march has been built on a series of rallies in Punjab where the PTI has repeatedly hammered home its case against electoral rigging. These arguments have mostly been taken at face value. Let’s see how they fare in the light of facts put together by FAFEN, an independent election monitoring NGO.

1) Election tribunals have failed to decide cases — Around 410 election petitions were filed by losing candidates before the 14 election tribunals established across the country. As of last month, 292 petitions, i.e., 73 per cent of all cases, have already been decided by election tribunals. This is unprecedented when compared with the disposal rate of election tribunals in previous elections.

2) Judges of election tribunals were appointed under a faulty process by a biased Election Commission of Pakistan — In previous elections, high court judges were burdened with the responsibility to decide petitions after completing their usual day’s work. Now, election tribunals are manned by retired judges, whose only work is to decide election cases. The ECP did not appoint these judges. Each of the election tribunal judges were proposed by the respective chief justices of the provincial high courts.

3) Election tribunals are purposely going slow — It is correct that election tribunals were not able to meet the 120-day deadline to decide cases. One reason for the delay is the attitude of many losing candidates. Take for example the case of petition number 344 of 2013, Usman Dar vs Khawaja Asif. In its decision, the tribunal wrote: “The way the petitioner avoided to enter the witness box and disregarded the directions of this tribunal on the pretext of business tour abroad, provides a basis to infer that he was/is no more interested in the matter. Costs of adjournments to the tune of Rs30,000/- have not been paid by the petitioner till date. It appears that after filing the election petition, the petitioner lost interest in the election dispute and then attempted to prolong the trial … the petitioner failed to prove the allegations … (and) the election petition is found to be without any merit and is accordingly dismissed … .”

4) If election tribunals decided the PTI’s cases, the PML-N government would collapse — The PTI candidates filed a total of 58 petitions challenging National and provincial assembly elections in various constituencies. Of these, 39 petitions, i.e., 70 per cent have already been decided by the election tribunals. Unfortunately for the PTI, none of the 39 cases were successful. Now, only 19 PTI petitions remain to be decided. Even if each of these is decided in the PTI’s favour, it will not dent the overall election result.

5) Election tribunals are favouring the PML-N — Thus far, 10 elected parliamentarians of the PML-N have been unseated by the election tribunals. This is the highest number of decisions against any political party. Judgments in only two petitions have gone against PTI candidates. Independent candidates are the biggest winners thus far with eight cases in their favour, followed by the PPP at six.

6) If the government has nothing to hide, then why is it refusing to open the cases of four seats demanded by the PTI — The election results on the four National Assembly seats, i.e., NA-110, NA-122, NA-125 and NA-154 have already been opened and are subjects of judicial inquiry by the election tribunals, which are the only forum for opening disputed results of any election. The government has no role to play here.

7) Unprecedented rigging on four seats — NA-110 was one of the four seats cited for election rigging. According to FAFEN, the number of electoral violations in NA-110 is zero. Compare this with NA-1, where Imran Khan won the election. The electoral violations here are listed as 58 by FAFEN. The point is not that the NA-1 result was manipulated simply because FAFEN listed these violations. The point is that there were approximately 90,000 polling stations across the country. Electoral law violations in some of these, deplorable as they may be, do not make these a rigged parliament.

8) The PML-N rigged elections to defeat the PTI’s Jahangir Tareen — NA-154 is another one of the four seats. Here, the PML-N is blamed for stealing Tareen’s victory. But it is interesting to note that the PML-N candidate here also lost the election. The winner was an independent candidate, Mohammad Siddik Baloch. If the PML-N wanted to rig this seat, why would its candidate come a distant third?

9) Even the PPP supports the demand to reopen result of four constituencies — The PPP is happy that the PTI is focusing attention solely on Punjab. The PPP lost a large number of safe seats in Punjab. Although this has happened before, this time, the loss threatens its very existence in Punjab. In the famous four constituencies, the PPP received an abysmal one per cent, 1.6 per cent, 2.9 per cent and five per cent of total votes cast and its candidates lost even their security deposits. Therefore, how can the PPP resist the opportunity to help de-legitimise the election results in these constituencies?

10) The PTI exhausted all forums provided by law before coming on the streets — The Representation of Peoples Act provides that the forum to contest election results is the election tribunals. Around 73 per cent of all cases have already been decided by them. Anyone aggrieved by their decisions can file an appeal in the Supreme Court as mandated by law. Rule of law is not just an empty slogan to be raised in public rallies and television talk shows. It is the foundation which we must abide by if we are to build a modern and stable Pakistan.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 4th, 2014.

 

[zimmz]

An insightful article with some good facts. Though i cannot verify the facts propounded in the article but if true they make a solid case against the hue and cry from PTI.

Also note that the author is related to FG Ibrahim so make your own judgement.

Ten truths about electoral rigging


Published in The Express Tribune, August 4th, 2014.

On 'face value' this article sounds so convincing to anti-PTI brigade but there is usually there is more than meets the eye...

1. Would be good to present details and be specific about the cases. The few report sin media were about cases involving independents, or mainly the seats involving PPP in sindh. Only couple of seats for PTI were investigated and that too without any concrete actions taken (remember one from Karachi where huge rigging is proved but only for few polling booths due to money limitations from the candidate). The most significant seats politically are ignored by ECP/Judiciary/gov because these involved PTI vs PMLN candidates(mainly form Lahore/central punjab). Also remember the seat of NS from Sargodha where the mere excuse was 'typo' without going into details in other polling booths.

2. Proves nothing. Retired judges are not automatically 'clean' they are in some way under influence of corruption (past or present). CJ Chaudry is retired doesn't mean he is not biased or can't be bought in by noon league.

3. So just one case delayed whole process? LoL

4. First of PTI as party only asked for 4 infamous seats. It was never about tilting the power in parliament it was about rigging and who to fix this system once rigging is proved. How many of 39 were properly investigated? where are the details? Are candidates satisfied from the process? The two examples I mentioned earlier shows that there is no intent from ECP to properly investigate the rigging.

5. The figures in this point doesn't fit well with the figures presented in 1. and 4.

6. What's taking so long for this inquiry? If it was so going well then there was no reason for PTI to complain. Why not bring in front of public the details of this proceedings so for?

and so on...really stupid article.

 

[Waseem]

On 'face value' this article sounds so convincing to anti-PTI brigade but there is usually there is more than meets the eye...

1. Would be good to present details and be specific about the cases. The few report sin media were about cases involving independents, or mainly the seats involving PPP in sindh. Only couple of seats for PTI were investigated and that too without any concrete actions taken (remember one from Karachi where huge rigging is proved but only for few polling booths due to money limitations from the candidate). The most significant seats politically are ignored by ECP/Judiciary/gov because these involved PTI vs PMLN candidates(mainly form Lahore/central punjab). Also remember the seat of NS from Sargodha where the mere excuse was 'typo' without going into details in other polling booths.

2. Proves nothing. Retired judges are not automatically 'clean' they are in some way under influence of corruption (past or present). CJ Chaudry is retired doesn't mean he is not biased or can't be bought in by noon league.

3. So just one case delayed whole process? LoL

4. First of PTI as party only asked for 4 infamous seats. It was never about tilting the power in parliament it was about rigging and who to fix this system once rigging is proved. How many of 39 were properly investigated? where are the details? Are candidates satisfied from the process? The two examples I mentioned earlier shows that there is no intent from ECP to properly investigate the rigging.

5. The figures in this point doesn't fit well with the figures presented in 1. and 4.

6. What's taking so long for this inquiry? If it was so going well then there was no reason for PTI to complain. Why not bring in front of public the details of this proceedings so for?

and so on...really stupid article.

+1

Also, even if all of the above questions are valid then let the thumb verification expose Imran & PTI? Why those stay orders? Why sacking an harassment of NADRA chief? Why waste all the time and energy?

 

[zimmz]

^ If it was unbiased article it would mention much more of 'facts' than presented (from the PMLN POV).

Here are some points missing.

- Chooses to use an example of PTI but refuses to answer who from the Gov / PML Who is delaying the tribunals
- Refuses to discuss a candidates winning speech at 17% results
- Refuses to acknowledge the gaff of the Magnetic ink
- Refuses to acknowledge the Unverified votes by NADRA
- Missing Ballot boxes in Karachi
- Missing RO & PO in Karachi
- Missing Stamps and Papers in Karachi

 

[waqar goraya]

How stupid is Nawaz Sharif not to open the 4 constituencies.

But here Hasan Nisar tells us the other reasons besides election rigging in the support of long march.

[video]http://tune.pk/video/4470720/meray-mutabiq-3rd-august-2014-hassan-nisar-meray-mutabiq-3-august-2014[/video]

Loved the Shaer ;

bandar hein tou to milay hum ko humara jungle

Aadmi hein to madari sa churaya jae