PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

[endymion248]

then learn the first rule of a democracy, freedom of speech. The pm is your naukar, and you can call him what you want. You pay for him to do his job. In an ideal world he should be calling you sir.

Is that how insafiyaans treat their naukars?

 

[zimmz]

"ہمیں تو 14 قتلوں اور 85 افراد کو گولیاں مارنے پر قوم معاف کردے گی مگر چینی صدر کے دورہ کی منسوخی پر قوم عمران اور قادری کو معاف نہیں کرے گی"

- میاں نواز شریف.

 

[Saeed]

Is that how insafiyaans treat their naukars?

No that is how you treat your naukar when he acts like king.

 

[zimmz]

وزیر اعظم آجکل روز ہی پارلیمنٹ آ رہے ہیں

تبدیلی آ نہیں رہی ....تبدیلی آچکی ہے

جس نے بھی یہ کہا ہے بلکل ٹیھک کہا ہے کہ پٹواری جب مجبور ہو تو پاؤں پکرتے ہیں اور جب طاقت میں ہو تو گردن یہ وہی نواز شریف تھا جس نے چودہ ماہ میں سینٹ میں اپنا مونہہ نہیں دکھایا تھا اور آج جب اسکے گردن سے عمران خان نے سریا نکال کر پٹہ ڈالا ہے تو سب کے پاؤں پڑ رہا ہے

 

[zimmz]

 

[zimmz]

Bazar-e-Jamhooriat ka tamasha, awam ki purzor farmaaish per... (Noora kushti going on to divert attention from dharna)

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Bazar-e-Jamhooriat ka tamasha, awam ki purzor farmaaish per... (Noora kushti going on to divert attention from dharna)

LMAO. upholders of democracy. LMAO

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Most neutral parties have said rigging made no difference to PLMN win.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1129988/2013-elections-free-and-fair-says-us

Also, he is right, most PTI supporters do repeat that people are not educated enough, etc so they vote for Nawaz

these status-quo parties go in to villages...collect all the villagers CNIC IDs due to feudal pressure and then cast votes on their behalfs

 

[godzilla]

Nisar called Aitzaz Ahsan a representative of land mafia

A.A. on the floor of Parliament gave Nisar a shut up call. Told PM that he is a snake in your party. And told the PM that you are only PM as long as we support you.

PM didn't let Nisar respond even though he wanted to. PM then apologised to A.A. on behalf of Nisar.

Zardari has demanded a written apology from Nisar

Nisar is furious that he was called a snake and no one from his party, even PM, rebutted that comment.

Nisar will do a press conference tomorrow - people think he has self-respect and will resign. I think otherwise.

I agree with you, money and power means a lot more than honour which for the pmln and PPP are worthless qualities. People forget. There are so many open corruption cases, what difference does this comment make. Besides, they were both correct statements weren't they?

 

[BudMarsh]

IK resorting to lies now. Saying Afzal Khan was the 2nd highest ranked official in the ECP. This is hilariously untrue. I mean he wasnt a chapraasi but he wasnt at the top level hierarchy.

 

[Noora420]

IK resorting to lies now. Saying Afzal Khan was the 2nd highest ranked official in the ECP. This is hilariously untrue. I mean he wasnt a chapraasi but he wasnt at the top level hierarchy.

Nothing compare to Mian Saab lies who live in his mother house

 

[Noora420]

Nawaz Sahrif claimed in his Tax Returns that he has no source of income lol

 

[Bewal Express]

How dare he,IK is a terrible person, afterall he has looted billions, cheated in elections and killed innocent people. He should be behind bars in the Sharifs honest kingdom.

 

[Noora420]

Fantastic speech by Imran Khan.

 

[Badsha]

IK resorting to lies now. Saying Afzal Khan was the 2nd highest ranked official in the ECP. This is hilariously untrue. I mean he wasnt a chapraasi but he wasnt at the top level hierarchy.

I think we was second behind some other guy in the Islamabad area.

 

[shakil]

Nawaz Sahrif claimed in his Tax Returns that he has no source of income lol

Not saying that he is not a chor. But facts are facts

http://download1.fbr.gov.pk/Docs/201469962916404PARLIMENTARIANSTAXDIRECTORY2013Dt.09.06.2014.pdf

 

[DrSchultz]

Not saying that he is not a chor. But facts are facts

http://download1.fbr.gov.pk/Docs/201469962916404PARLIMENTARIANSTAXDIRECTORY2013Dt.09.06.2014.pdf

Link claims he has paid 2.6 million rupees in tax.

 

[shakil]

Link claims he has paid 2.6 million rupees in tax.

Yes and that is what the newspaper clippings say as well. So any claims of him not paying taxes looks like rubbish

 

[Bewal Express]

The Sharifs are worth billions, and the tax that they should have paid is minuscule compared to the amount they have paid. They are born crooks.

 

[s28]

this is the ECP website organagram http://www.ecp.gov.pk/Management/Default.aspx

looks perfectly permissible to describe him as the 2nd highest ranked as there appears to be two ranks judging from this picture

some people may have difficulty with comprehending nuanced language

 

[Kianig89]

Mic faulty upset

 

[BudMarsh]

this is the ECP website organagram http://www.ecp.gov.pk/Management/Default.aspx

looks perfectly permissible to describe him as the 2nd highest ranked as there appears to be two ranks judging from this picture

some people may have difficulty with comprehending nuanced language

I'd bother with a proper response but you're obviously much too deeply involved in the cult of Imran Khan to listen to logic or reason.

Just to reiterate to anybody else who isnt a cult worshipper of IK Afzal Khan was not the 2nd highest ranked guy at the ECP at the time of elections 2013. That would mean he was only subordinate to Fakhru and nobody else. Which is patently untrue.

 

[DHONI183]

PPP have been hinting from the start that Ch.Nisar has turned.

PTI calling Ch.Nisar to join them pointed towards the fact that Nisar might not stay with PMLN

And when PMLN was just getting a bit stronger, this incident has again sent shockwaves through their ranks.

Ch. Nisar will respond no doubt and it won't be an apology. Let us see how things go from here.

The most shameful thing was that Aitzaz Ahsan accused Interior Minister of being part of Patwari Mafia in RawalPindi. And everyone reacted as if it was a normal thing.

Accusations of corruption on the house of the floor and so far no news of a notice taken or an commission being made to make enquiries

Thank you. Hmmm..... Is it true that Choudhry Nisar reacted to actually something said by Aitzaz Ahsan in the Supreme Court about the former? Just a theory that I have been informed about.

The latest I read is that Nisar has postponed his press conference to tomorrow evening instead of tomorrow at 11 AM. Nice! That would have been a bit too early for me to follow it live. He plans to respond!

Lastly, you have raised some valid points at the end.

 

[DHONI183]

- Yes they have misused their power in the past, times have changed.

Interesting that you posted this regarding PML-N if I have understood it correctly. Putting aside the allegations that political parties that make against each other, I would like to know what exact incidents or cases are you possibly referring to by saying that they did use to misuse their powers in the past.

*A reply without any interference from any PTI etc. poster would be nice.*

 

[Vegitto1]

Who else felt proud and disgusted at the same time during Aitzaz Ahsan's speech and why?

 

[AZ]

Interesting that you posted this regarding PML-N if I have understood it correctly. Putting aside the allegations that political parties that make against each other, I would like to know what exact incidents or cases are you possibly referring to by saying that they did use to misuse their powers in the past.

*A reply without any interference from any PTI etc. poster would be nice.*

for at least 10 years from 1988 onwards, both PPP and PMLN indulged in saazishein against each other to oust one from power, with the help of the intelligence agencies, military and Establishment.

if they had the interests of the nation instead of their own stake for power at heart then it would not have been a decade wasted, with the military once again stepping in and taking over completely.

 

[DrSchultz]

Who else felt proud and disgusted at the same time during Aitzaz Ahsan's speech and why?

What about your reasons?

 

[AZ]

Who else felt proud and disgusted at the same time during Aitzaz Ahsan's speech and why?

I don't think it was anything to be proud of, Aitzaz Ahsan should have let the matter lay rest after the PM's personal plea and apology.

He should have respected the position of the Prime Minister - whoever that may have been - and held his tongue.

When you fling mud at others you are bound to get some on yourself as well.

Chaudhry Nisar is of course equally if not more to blame here, this was hardly the time to fan the flames.

 

[Nostalgic]

The Mickey Mouse marriage consummation bit was fun. Too bad he delivered it in English.

 

[Bewal Express]

for at least 10 years from 1988 onwards, both PTI and PMLN indulged in saazishein against each other to oust one from power, with the help of the intelligence agencies, military and Establishment.

if they had the interests of the nation instead of their own stake for power at heart then it would not have been a decade wasted, with the military once again stepping in and taking over completely.

I think you have PTI on the brain, it was off course the PPP that you meant. Yes I remember the great days when the two set of crooks were desperate to oust each other from power at any cost so that they and their families could rob and pillage. Thankfully Mushy put an end to the mafia families for nearly a decade. I hope IK puts it to an end forever.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

In fact, the former president claimed that Nawaz approached him with an offer to take turns ruling the country after the 2008 elections, which PPP won “After 2008 elections, PML-N leadership asked me to take my turn and let them take the next turn,” he said.
“We took along every one. Mian sb said to me this is your turn. We will take the next turn. I said no. You take Punjab,” Zardari remarked.

 

[blinding light]

PMLN and Nisar shooting themselves in the foot here The floods making them look like the idiots that they are. Given their recent blunders, I dont see much support from them, even from GT road constituencies.

Perfect opportunity for PPP to do some siyasat, but I completely side with AA on this issue.

Finally some sense prevailed as IK is moving the dharna back to D chowk now. Only wanna-be Qadri left now.

In IR, there are theories defining crisis as a phenomenon with 3crucial elements - low time, level of threat and the elemnt of surprise. While definitely not over, I'd say at least there is now enough time to diffuse the situation altogether.

The message has been sent and is now loud and clear - PMLN needs to get their sh!t together - all threats to the continuity of the system would now result from their own failings.

 

[Anfield]

So this is the parliament people say should be saved where lawmakers are fighting like dogs? LOL! Great keep going. A physical altercation isn't far either..

PMLN ministers are full of egos!

 

[Anfield]

PMLN can't stop lying can they? Lied about the cancellation of Chinese President visit when it was never officially announced in the first place. wow!

 

[Indiafan]

I think you have PTI on the brain, it was off course the PPP that you meant. Yes I remember the great days when the two set of crooks were desperate to oust each other from power at any cost so that they and their families could rob and pillage. Thankfully Mushy put an end to the mafia families for nearly a decade. I hope IK puts it to an end forever.

And because your dear Mushy put an end there, that is why it took Imran so much time to win 40 seats. And that is also why both these parties came to power, because they were never voted out in the first place. And yet you still want the same cycle

So when dear Imran puts an end to this, they will again have the chance to come back to power in the future with Imran losing whatever support he has got. Because they would not be given a tight slap by the people through votes. After 5 years their period in power will be a dim memory, all people will remember is that they were forcibly thrown out and will have sympathy for him. During the last years of Mushraf's rule, sympathy for his coup went down and sympathy for Nawaz increased. You want the same cycle again

 

[Indiafan]

PMLN can't stop lying can they? Lied about the cancellation of Chinese President visit when it was never officially announced in the first place. wow!

How can it not be officially announced? He was definitely visiting Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka. This is clutching at straws now

 

[bladerunner]

How can it not be officially announced? He was definitely visiting Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka. This is clutching at straws now

Q: Media reports said that China has cancelled President Xi Jinping's visit to Pakistan out of security concerns. Can you confirm that?

A: China and Pakistan are friendly neighbors enjoying all-weather friendship and comprehensive cooperation. We have maintained close high-level exchanges. Both sides are in close communication on the next step of such exchanges. It is worth pointing out that we have never released any information about President Xi's visit to Pakistan officially. So, there is no basis to say we are about to cancel anything.

As for the current security situation in Pakistan, we hope relevant parties in Pakistan can work together while bearing in mind the fundamental interests of the state and the people, and jointly safeguard national security.

Source: Foreign Ministry of China
link: http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1188665.shtml

But I am pretty sure China is lying. The democratic government of Pakistan can never lie.

 

[farazaidi]

Let us all rejoice now! We have succeeded!

Dunya and Samaa now breaking that the Chinese President has cancelled his visit due to security reasons. Security report mentions dharnas, violence, illegal setting up of checkposts to check police as the reasons for this decision. Had requested the evacuation of red zone.

They took Sheikh Rasheed on the line for this, and he bumbled his way through it, as usual.



Now does anyone understand why the STATE is more important than personalities?!

Shame on IMRAN KHAN AND QADRI for creating this damn situation!

Listen to the reports! The government freaking bent over backwards to accommodate these anarchists! And what did you do? Wrecked the State TV, desecrated the Parliament and Pak Secratariat!

China EXPLICITLY asked to clear the red zone and you come up with this! Pathetic excuses!

Mubarak ho sab ko. Today, PMLN didn't lose. PAKISTAN LOST because of this tamasha!

Well done IK and fake mullah, put 32 billion dollars of potential investment in risk


I find it shocking people think a foreign leader can vist when a mob is sitting outside your parliament

Do you have actually any idea about the financial loss that has been incurred by the Chinese President refusing to visit amid this turmoil?

Q: Media reports said that China has cancelled President Xi Jinping's visit to Pakistan out of security concerns. Can you confirm that?

A: China and Pakistan are friendly neighbors enjoying all-weather friendship and comprehensive cooperation. We have maintained close high-level exchanges. Both sides are in close communication on the next step of such exchanges. It is worth pointing out that we have never released any information about President Xi's visit to Pakistan officially. So, there is no basis to say we are about to cancel anything.

As for the current security situation in Pakistan, we hope relevant parties in Pakistan can work together while bearing in mind the fundamental interests of the state and the people, and jointly safeguard national security.

http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/fyrth/t1188665.htm

 

[Saeed]

View attachment 48585



http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/fyrth/t1188665.htm

View attachment 48586

Lol. I am sure they will backtrack and say that they meant something else.

 

[farazaidi]

By 'gaining support', you mean that the Pakistani populace at large wouldn't hesitate to push the button come voting day to have the PPP as the ruling political party and Bilawal as their PM.

How can any election reforms change that?

Let me clarify two things here. First, the election reforms will stop the engineered rigging, they cannot eradicate the issue completely but it will atleast ensure PML-N will be reduced to half or less in Punjab and disappear elsewhere. MQM will not get more than 4-5 seats and PPP will also be affected in interior Sindh, thou not as much.

Second, they are gaining support of the preachers of democracy. You can scroll through the posts on this forum alone how they've been full of praise for the PPP. They will however require engineered rigging to get simple majority (cant rule that out still).

 

[godzilla]

for at least 10 years from 1988 onwards, both PPP and PMLN indulged in saazishein against each other to oust one from power, with the help of the intelligence agencies, military and Establishment.

if they had the interests of the nation instead of their own stake for power at heart then it would not have been a decade wasted, with the military once again stepping in and taking over completely.

Any comment on corruption and embezzlement?

 

[godzilla]

Straight from the horses mouth. Nawaz, in contrast toothsome bleating for the democratic system, offered to take turns in running the country. This is a definitive complete mockery of any system of democracy in the country, and is proof of it being a farce.

Conversely, if that demon zardari is lying, it's equally damning of a system that has allowed a man to run the country that has lied about the whole political system being defunct.

This is proof that the system is unjustifiable and defunct, and that either one or both of sharif and zardari need to stand trial for their mockery and obliteration of that system.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/758272/zardari-ready-to-move-on-from-aitzaz-nisar-row/

 

[godzilla]

Not just the pti. Pmlq stating too that both kayani and the former cj were involved in rigging.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1130144/ma...ans-hands-only-army-can-resolve-crisis-sujaat

 

[Vegitto1]

What about your reasons?

Felt Proud obviously to hear Aitzaz Ahsan tell his whole history. His 50 year struggle for democracy and saying what he had to despite PM asking him to let the matter rest.


Disgusted because this man, 50 years of struggle against dictators and for democracy. Not uneducated and had he been in any political party in the west he would have been contender for the party leader position. This man gav a 20 min lecture on how his family and him fought for democracy and here he is, in a party whose chairman is appointed not based on merit but based on their surname - Bhutto.

Had this been your run of the mill politician, it wouldn't have bothered me. But this man is a barrister! an intellectual and a student of political science - His hypocrisy disgusted me!

The second thing being how he said "People (Lawyers) I know became millionaires over night after Iftikhar Ch. was restored" - Name them and shame them then! It is your duty towards the public if someone has used personal connections to abuse the legal process!

You said that you know Ch. Nisar is part of Patwari mafia and you have known this for a while I am sure. Yet you only brought it to Parliaments attention when Nisar attacked you personally. Before that you weren't bothered, you weren't bothered that this mafia was causing inconvenience to people of Pakistan, the people you are representing in Parliament!

I was proud to hear a learned man speak in Parliament and disgusted to see that over the years the system didn't change but it did change people and made them accept this abomination in the name of democracy!.

 

[waqar goraya]

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it.” -Claude Frédéric Bastia

 

[saadibaba]

Chaudry Nisar = Biggest Diva of Pakistani politics.

What a joke of a cabinet this is when you don't have any control over your Interior Minister. Can you imagine Rehman Malik ever doing what he did. Either he is with IK or he is so self obsessed and egotistical that he is willing to ruin everything just to settle personal scores.


Good on Aitizaz Ahsan for literally taking him to the cleaners.


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[saadibaba]

Even though what happened in parliament is despicable at least it's refreshing to see the gloves come off and straight from the hip shooting from both sides. I rather have this in the parliament everyday than watch dharna drama on the streets, no matter how decent. Time to finally get the skeletons out of the closet.


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[saadibaba]

Another chance for me to say "Aik Zardari sab par bhari"

This dharna and crisis would have already become the dust of history books by now if he was in charge.

 

[Vegitto1]

Even though what happened in parliament is despicable at least it's refreshing to see the gloves come off and straight from the hip shooting from both sides. I rather have this in the parliament everyday than watch dharna drama on the streets, no matter how decent. Time to finally get the skeletons out of the closet.


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And what action has been taken after these disclosures? Any committee formed to look into allegations from both sides?

Do you know that nothing was said for 35 people who had died so far due to heavy rainfall! this Parliament is a club nothing else!

 

[saadibaba]

And what action has been taken after these disclosures? Any committee formed to look into allegations from both sides?

Do you know that nothing was said for 35 people who had died so far due to heavy rainfall! this Parliament is a club nothing else!

PTI can try to form committees, do some coalition building, seize the moment, where are they......ran a away like a spoiled child....saying "maine nahi khelna jab tak main PM nahi ban jata"


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[Vegitto1]

PTI can try to form committees, do some coalition building, seize the moment, where are they......ran a away like a spoiled child....saying "maine nahi khelna jab tak main PM nahi ban jata"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

haha...such naivety from you isn't expected.

But I know that you argue for arguments sake, you have already said that whatever the outcome, you are not bothered since you don't support any of the Parties involved.

 

[KarachiKing]

The intellectual gap between PPP's top brass and PML-N's top brass is humongous. Almost shameful.

On one side we have people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Babar Awan and on the other there are patwaris like Saad Rafique, Mushahidullah and Khwaja Asif

 

[PetroDollars]

Interesting read if true.......


Army chief holds off generals seeking Pakistan PM's ouster

(Reuters) - Weeks of mounting anti-government protests in Pakistan had been enough to convince five of the powerful army's 11 Corps Commanders that it was time for them to step in and force embattled Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to resign.

According to a minister close to military circles, top generals met in the garrison city of Rawalpindi at the end of August as demonstrations raged in nearby Islamabad. Thousands of protesters had just tried to storm Sharif's residence.

At the tense, four-hour conclave, Pakistan's democratic process was once again in peril, with the military pondering another intervention in a country that has seen power change hands more often through coups than elections.

But army chief Raheel Sharif decided the time was not right to overthrow the civilian leadership, and moved to quell any disagreement in his ranks by overruling the hawks and declaring the crisis must be solved through politics, not force.

Soon afterwards, the army issued a brief statement, reaffirming its commitment to democracy, and the threat of a coup, at least for now, had passed.

The minister, who declined to be named due to the sensitivity of discussing the inner workings of the military, said at least five generals had been pushing for weeks for the army to take a more "active role" in defusing the crisis.

"The time for the army to be neutral is over," was how the minister summed up the message from dissenters around the table.

Two military sources confirmed this version of events. They, like the minister, spoke on condition of anonymity.

A senior security source added: "Raheel Sharif is not interested in direct intervention. The tanks aren't going to come rolling in. This army believes in compromise."

The army's media wing confirmed Sunday's meeting but declined to share details. Defence Minister Khawaja Asif told Reuters the army was a "monolithic institution".

"What comes out from the army is ultimately one opinion," he said. "And ... they have supported democracy."

BIDING HIS TIME?

General Sharif, who is not related to the prime minister, may simply be biding his time.

If, with the help of tacit military support, Nawaz Sharif does manage to ride out twin protest movements led by cricketer-turned-opposition leader Imran Khan and activist cleric Tahir ul-Qadri, he is expected to emerge a diminished figure.

It would allow the armed forces to assume greater control of policy areas they most covet - security and foreign policy - and leave it to civilians to face public anger over internal problems such as a faltering economy and widespread power cuts.

A government insider told Reuters in August that Sharif had been assured by the military he would not be asked to step down and that there would be no coup. But in return his government would have to "share space" with the army.

Under the agreement, Sharif would be subservient to generals on issues he had wanted to handle himself - the fight against Taliban militants, relations with arch-foe India and Pakistan's role in neighbouring Afghanistan after NATO combat troops withdraw at the end of 2014.

The army chief's cautious stance may have been linked to the strong show of support for the prime minister this month in parliament, where politicians lined up to back him.

General Sharif also inherited the current team of commanders from his predecessor when he took over the top job last year, making him less secure of his position, insiders said.

But with five top security officials due to retire next month, he has a chance to appoint his own men.

"It's hard to imagine an army chief trying to actively intervene or do something drastic when he isn't 100 percent sure his team will back him," said a defence ministry source.

"Next month ... he will have four of his own Corps Commanders. He'll have his own intelligence chief. Then he'll be a man to watch out for."

Spy chief Zaheer-ul-Islam, one of the five departing officers, was among those pushing for the prime minister's ouster, according to three senior government sources.

"It is not the army but elements within the ISI that have been backing Imran to get rid of Nawaz," said one of the sources, referring to Pakistan's most powerful security body, the military's Inter-Services Intelligence agency.

A senior ISI official said: "It is baseless to say the ISI is involved, but the fact is that this government has not delivered. No one will support it unconditionally."

Khan, who like Qadri accuses the prime minister of rigging the 2013 election and demands that he steps down, denies acting on anyone's orders.

HOPE QUICKLY FADED

A year ago, few would have predicted that Nawaz Sharif would be in such trouble.

Back then, he had just swept to power for a third time in a milestone poll that marked nuclear-armed Pakistan's first transition from one elected government to another.

But in the months that followed, Sharif, who crossed swords with the army in the past, moved to enhance the influence of the civilian government in a country ruled by the military for more than half of its brief and turbulent history.

Sharif further irked the generals by putting former military head and president Pervez Musharraf, who ended Sharif's last stint in power in a 1999 coup, on trial for treason.

His principle goals were to improve trade relations with India, convince Afghanistan that Pakistan would not meddle in its affairs and find a negotiated peace settlement with Islamist Taliban insurgents fighting against his rule.

But with the more conservative-minded military back in the driving seat, it would be much harder for Sharif to deliver on the rapprochement with India that he promised Indian officials when he won the election.

It could also affect how Pakistan emerges from a regional tussle for influence in Afghanistan once the majority of foreign soldiers serving there return home.

"Nawaz is the biggest loser here," said a government official. "Coup or no coup, the democratic transition has been badly disrupted."

(Writing By Mehreen Zahra-Malik; Editing by Mike Collett-White)

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/05/pakistan-crisis-army-idINKBN0H015K20140905

 

[Anfield]

First things First.. Got to say totally love all the bickering that has been going on in the parliament.. Great soap!

Now If I have to comment solely on the current incident, ignoring every other thing..

Ch Nisar was wrong.. should not have made personal attacks on AA.. AA's reply was justified but he went too far.. too many personal and below the belt attacks. And poor behavior from MNS. He once again showed he would do every thing to save his chair.. He should not have apologized to AA immediately after the speech. He should had, very carefully, criticized AA for going below the belt and involving Ch Nisar's family in this dog fight. PMLN threw Ch Nisar under the bus IMO. CH Nisar should reply and I think he will.. should't go overboard though.

 

[Anfield]

Bazar-e-Jamhooriat ka tamasha, awam ki purzor farmaaish per... (Noora kushti going on to divert attention from dharna)

equated Ch to a dirty rat. Lol

 

[Anfield]

View attachment 48585



http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/fyrth/t1188665.htm

View attachment 48586

would fall on deaf ears.

 

[ehjaz]

The intellectual gap between PPP's top brass and PML-N's top brass is humongous. Almost shameful.

On one side we have people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Babar Awan and on the other there are patwaris like Saad Rafique, Mushahidullah and Khwaja Asif

Khawaja Asif, Khawaja Saad, Khawaja this and that.....and Sheikh Rasheed refered one as Khawaja sara......

 

[Nostalgic]

Khawaja Asif, Khawaja Saad, Khawaja this and that.....and Sheikh Rasheed refered one as Khawaja sara......

Ironic since Sheeda is Kashmiri himself.

 

[godzilla]

Another chance for me to say "Aik Zardari sab par bhari"

This dharna and crisis would have already become the dust of history books by now if he was in charge.

You can't be serious. He would be in one of his Surrey like mansions at the end of a bottle counting money he'd stolen from the nation. Is there a single significant decision he presided over when in charge? After Musharraf kick started it, zardari is the next most responsible for allowing terrorism to flourish in the country.

 

[godzilla]

Felt Proud obviously to hear Aitzaz Ahsan tell his whole history. His 50 year struggle for democracy and saying what he had to despite PM asking him to let the matter rest.


Disgusted because this man, 50 years of struggle against dictators and for democracy. Not uneducated and had he been in any political party in the west he would have been contender for the party leader position. This man gav a 20 min lecture on how his family and him fought for democracy and here he is, in a party whose chairman is appointed not based on merit but based on their surname - Bhutto.

Had this been your run of the mill politician, it wouldn't have bothered me. But this man is a barrister! an intellectual and a student of political science - His hypocrisy disgusted me!

The second thing being how he said "People (Lawyers) I know became millionaires over night after Iftikhar Ch. was restored" - Name them and shame them then! It is your duty towards the public if someone has used personal connections to abuse the legal process!

You said that you know Ch. Nisar is part of Patwari mafia and you have known this for a while I am sure. Yet you only brought it to Parliaments attention when Nisar attacked you personally. Before that you weren't bothered, you weren't bothered that this mafia was causing inconvenience to people of Pakistan, the people you are representing in Parliament!

I was proud to hear a learned man speak in Parliament and disgusted to see that over the years the system didn't change but it did change people and made them accept this abomination in the name of democracy!.

Excellent post and a perfect example of how deep the corruption runs in these two parties. I agree with you that it's disgusting that te allegations of wrong doing only come out when it's personal, not when it's right - shows how corrupt aa is.

In the financial markets as well as the icc code now, not reporting a crime is in itself a crime which should be the case here too.

 

[Anfield]

The intellectual gap between PPP's top brass and PML-N's top brass is humongous. Almost shameful.

On one side we have people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Babar Awan and on the other there are patwaris like Saad Rafique, Mushahidullah and Khwaja Asif

and PPP nominated Zaradari as the president and Gillani as the PM.

 

[saadibaba]

Ironic since Sheeda is Kashmiri himself.

India got the better Kashmiri's like Nehru, we got the Khwaja's, Mian sb and Sheeda....our luck I guess.

 

[Nostalgic]

India got the better Kashmiri's like Nehru, we got the Khwaja's, Mian sb and Sheeda....our luck I guess.

Salman Butt and Ijaz Butt come to mind too. As do Gullu, Pomi, Pappu, Bobby, Pinky, Poppy and Bubbly Butt, the last one probably a callipygian Kashmiran auntie.

Jokes aside, we did get Iqbal (posthumously), Manto (reluctantly), Qudratullah Shahab (jury's still out on him), and Khaled Hasan.

 

[saadibaba]

Salman Butt and Ijaz Butt come to mind too. As do Gullu, Pomi, Pappu, Bobby, Pinky, Poppy and Bubbly Butt, the last one probably a callipygian Kashmiran auntie.

Jokes aside, we did get Iqbal (posthumously), Manto (reluctantly), Qudratullah Shahab (jury's still out on him), and Khaled Hasan.

Bubbly, haha....who can resist a callipygian auntie, Kashmiri on top of that.

These names used to be quite hip back in the 70's and 80's, not sure how it is now. Some of my own distant cousins pet names were Guddu, Babloo, Pinky etc. All names make sense at some level but what's with Pomi...first of all its difficult to define the gender of this nick name...Pomi, from Pom juice or one kid was Nomi so the next kid became Pomi and after that Tomi.

Forgot about Manto....now that was one rad Kashmiri.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ehjaz]

IK resorting to lies now. Saying Afzal Khan was the 2nd highest ranked official in the ECP. This is hilariously untrue. I mean he wasnt a chapraasi but he wasnt at the top level hierarchy.

Sure & you are the honest one around next to Sharif's

 

[KarachiKing]

Another chance for me to say "Aik Zardari sab par bhari"

This dharna and crisis would have already become the dust of history books by now if he was in charge.

of that there is no doubt!

 

[KarachiKing]

equated Ch to a dirty rat. Lol

also found it funny when he took a shot at Javed Hashmi!

 

[KarachiKing]

and PPP nominated Zaradari as the president and Gillani as the PM.

and?

 

[Bewal Express]

The intellectual gap between PPP's top brass and PML-N's top brass is humongous. Almost shameful.

On one side we have people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Babar Awan and on the other there are patwaris like Saad Rafique, Mushahidullah and Khwaja Asif

So one set are a bunch of educated crooks and the other illiterate and crooked. I am sure the rural poor who live in servitude appreciate the choice.

 

[exposer]

Let us all rejoice now! We have succeeded!

Dunya and Samaa now breaking that the Chinese President has cancelled his visit due to security reasons. Security report mentions dharnas, violence, illegal setting up of checkposts to check police as the reasons for this decision. Had requested the evacuation of red zone.

They took Sheikh Rasheed on the line for this, and he bumbled his way through it, as usual.



Now does anyone understand why the STATE is more important than personalities?!

exactly spoke like uncle ahsan iqbal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en-gb"><p>Congrats! IK & TUQ visit of China President is cancelled. Biggest diplomatic blow to Pakistan thanks to them. They have caused shame to us</p>— Ahsan Iqbal (@betterpakistan) <a href="https://twitter.com/betterpakistan/status/507529973817544704">September 4, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/betterpakistan/status/507529973817544704

however, the realities is, china never confirmed any exact schedule.

http://www.nation.com.pk/national/0...s-cancellation-of-xi-jinping-s-pakistan-visit

time for at least uncle ahsan to go to cave if others cant) . some jumped on the gun toooooooo soon. )

Listen to the reports! The government freaking bent over backwards to accommodate these anarchists! And what did you do? Wrecked the State TV, desecrated the Parliament and Pak Secratariat!

China EXPLICITLY asked to clear the red zone and you come up with this! Pathetic excuses!

Mubarak ho sab ko. Today, PMLN didn't lose. PAKISTAN LOST because of this tamasha!

this post sounds so lolworthy now, suddenly. )

When others rely on Mubashar Luqman's and ARY's dubious sources if "100s being killed in protests", use of "live bullets" , whatnot, then it is all perfectly alright for majority posters here. But relying on sources here has me "giving opinions as news" ? Fantastic.

you cant dismiss everything as lucman´s prapoganda. no 100s werent killed in dharna but live bullets were definitely used, but you´re bent on proving that rubber, softy, spongy, jelly, cuddly bullets were used.

bullets were used & thats a fact. no person with a neutral conscious will deny that. ppl, even if 5, were killed, brutally murdered ! & of course, the ones used at model town were spit bullets !

i sometime wonder at ppl who dont feel for those who died & all those who´ve lost their beloved ones ! but you´re free to ignore this as theres no way some "neutral" ppl can be convinced on the use of bullets.

The question is, if the official statement CONFIRMS that Chinese authority wanted red zone cleared, then what will it spell for Imran and Imranistanis?

the question now is, now that china has confirmed that govt lied what will it spell for them & more importantly the ppl who were busy in chest thumping the day this news broke out?

Completely side with Aitzaz. He was spot-on on all accounts.

how ? "all acounts"? (he even targeted ch. nisar´s late brother and father) is that how a person is supposed to speak in parliament ? manners is a thing !

also aitzaz uncle said an extreeeeeeeeeemely unconstitional thing. he said " chahoon to aj dharne ki mazahmt aur parliament ko khatam kardoo. "

https://twitter.com/geonews_urdu/status/507790750500016128

" khatam kardoo" ? thats highly disrespecting to the sacred church that parliament is & is a threat to join something ghair-ainee !

article 6 :
Any person who abrogates or subverts or suspends or holds in abeyance, or attempts or conspires to abrogate or subvert or suspend or hold in abeyance, the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by any other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason

he hasnt yet done, attempted or conspired, but can any democratic person even threaten to join these ghair-ainee dharnas standing in the parliament ?

how sweetly democratic yeay.

true double standards !

Most neutral parties have said rigging made no difference to PLMN win.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1129988/2013-elections-free-and-fair-says-us

to what extremes would you go to support nawaz ? US ? why should another country matter ?

your whole last 3-4 weeks are spent on preaching democracy this democracy that, do you even know how supportive the same US has been of military dictators in the country ?

as for elections, ch. nisar the interior minister himself confirmed that in many constituencies as many as 70000 votes arent verifiable ! when someone from pmln itself says this then what is left ?

but of course what i expect is another zillion worded post completely irrelevant just to do your job of defending nawaz at any cost.

 

[wasim-fan]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1130131

 

[Indiafan]

So China is visiting India and Sri Lanka but never planned to visit Pakistan? That sounds very thin to me, dates confirmed or not, they were always going to include Pakistan on this trip

 

[DHONI183]

Choudhry Nisar´s press conference promised and disappointed more than 'Dhoom 3' (2013).

Probably a smart move of course.

 

[Kianig89]

Excellent speech by today

 

[Fastandfurious]

So China is visiting India and Sri Lanka but never planned to visit Pakistan? That sounds very thin to me, dates confirmed or not, they were always going to include Pakistan on this trip

Ye, everybody should just believe it because Indiafan said so.

 

[blinding light]

View attachment 48585



http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/fyrth/t1188665.htm

View attachment 48586

exactly spoke like uncle ahsan iqbal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en-gb"><p>Congrats! IK & TUQ visit of China President is cancelled. Biggest diplomatic blow to Pakistan thanks to them. They have caused shame to us</p>— Ahsan Iqbal (@betterpakistan) <a href="https://twitter.com/betterpakistan/status/507529973817544704">September 4, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/betterpakistan/status/507529973817544704

however, the realities is, china never confirmed any exact schedule.

http://www.nation.com.pk/national/0...s-cancellation-of-xi-jinping-s-pakistan-visit

time for at least uncle ahsan to go to cave if others cant) . some jumped on the gun toooooooo soon. )



this post sounds so lolworthy now, suddenly. )



you cant dismiss everything as lucman´s prapoganda. no 100s werent killed in dharna but live bullets were definitely used, but you´re bent on proving that rubber, softy, spongy, jelly, cuddly bullets were used.

bullets were used & thats a fact. no person with a neutral conscious will deny that. ppl, even if 5, were killed, brutally murdered ! & of course, the ones used at model town were spit bullets !

i sometime wonder at ppl who dont feel for those who died & all those who´ve lost their beloved ones ! but you´re free to ignore this as theres no way some "neutral" ppl can be convinced on the use of bullets.



the question now is, now that china has confirmed that govt lied what will it spell for them & more importantly the ppl who were busy in chest thumping the day this news broke out?



how ? "all acounts"? (he even targeted ch. nisar´s late brother and father) is that how a person is supposed to speak in parliament ? manners is a thing !

also aitzaz uncle said an extreeeeeeeeeemely unconstitional thing. he said " chahoon to aj dharne ki mazahmt aur parliament ko khatam kardoo. "

https://twitter.com/geonews_urdu/status/507790750500016128

" khatam kardoo" ? thats highly disrespecting to the sacred church that parliament is & is a threat to join something ghair-ainee !

article 6 :
Any person who abrogates or subverts or suspends or holds in abeyance, or attempts or conspires to abrogate or subvert or suspend or hold in abeyance, the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by any other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason

he hasnt yet done, attempted or conspired, but can any democratic person even threaten to join these ghair-ainee dharnas standing in the parliament ?

how sweetly democratic yeay.

true double standards !



to what extremes would you go to support nawaz ? US ? why should another country matter ?

your whole last 3-4 weeks are spent on preaching democracy this democracy that, do you even know how supportive the same US has been of military dictators in the country ?

as for elections, ch. nisar the interior minister himself confirmed that in many constituencies as many as 70000 votes arent verifiable ! when someone from pmln itself says this then what is left ?

but of course what i expect is another zillion worded post completely irrelevant just to do your job of defending nawaz at any cost.

My dear, dear friends. It was thoroughly refreshing to see you smile and laugh/poke fun here, for once. No, truly.. It does work in diffusing the "kasheedgi" here in this thread - and I'm certainly not going to stop you all from laughing away (even at me) if you really want to!

But in an alternate universe....

China's Pakistan visit 'postponed over ongoing protests' -BBC


The surreal world of Pakistan's 'political circus'
Pakistan's leader cornered by protests
Viewpoint: Why Pakistanis crave stability

Chinese President Xi Jinping's state visit to Pakistan has been postponed, the Pakistani foreign ministry says.

The ministry said the delay was "in view of the current political situation in Pakistan" and the trip would be rescheduled "as early as possible".

Islamabad has experienced three weeks of anti-government protests, some of which have been violent.

A visit from Sri Lanka's president was also cancelled last month for similar reasons.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had been hoping for about $34bn (£21bn) of deals to be signed during Mr Xi's visit, reports said.

In a statement, Pakistan's foreign ministry described the two countries as "time-tested all-weather friends" and said talks were underway for a rescheduled visit.

There was no immediate comment from the Chinese side.

Anti-government protesters, led by opposition politician Imran Khan and Sufi clerif Tahirul Qadri, want the government to resign. Mr Sharif's government won a landslide victory in the May 2013 elections

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29093260

So a couple of things come to mind in light of this, to not merely justify my original stance but to incorporate some of the things I have studied in a bid to better understand this situation:

1. As much we like thinking of Pakistan as a banana republic, we really aren't one, I'm afraid. When the Pak Foreign Ministry says something, the world listens.

2. Signalling. International implications. Remember? I've talked about these things quite a bit, only to have my concerns brushed off. But the fact remains, this postponement was very, very symbolic. Here's how...

3. International norms dictate certain rules of state visits. It's easy to brush them aside, and honestly, before I didn't study them, I never even thought these would be as relevant, but such things matter. According to the Hindustan times, China is due to visit India some time this month (http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...r-jinping-s-india-visit/article1-1259235.aspx). When you supposedly skip your BFF and go to India first (thus violating a norm), it means a helluva lot to other countries who have a stake in this region, economically, or otherwise. On the security side, it bodes ill for Pakistan any way you look at it. On the economics side, there is plenty of scope for reparations and making up later on, so we can let that one slide for now.

4. I was initially going to analyse the wording in the Embassy's website - but I must make mention of the way they've side-stepped over this whole issue without antagonising either party. There was no "official" announcement of the visit - because that is usually done close to the dates - but there were some internal workings of sorting this whole thing out. So for all those with comprehension problems, China did not explicitly DENY that there was absolutely no plan of visiting, but just that there was no "official announcement" of it.

5. ^ THAT, is not a failing or a lie of the government. It's a favour of the Chinese govt. on their Pakistani counterparts so as to not embarrass us internationally for explicity cancelling/postponing a visit on security grounds, when he was out to visit the subcontinent region.

As much as you all like to bash [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION], he was absolutely right here. Take up any country. When a head of state of any leading country visits, he visits the entire region - even if for 1-2 days. Such visits are extremely symbolic NOT for individuals like us, but for other governments. These signals are taken, analysed, and foreign policy stances are evaluated and re-evaluated in accordance to changing circumstances.

 

[blinding light]

Felt Proud obviously to hear Aitzaz Ahsan tell his whole history. His 50 year struggle for democracy and saying what he had to despite PM asking him to let the matter rest.


Disgusted because this man, 50 years of struggle against dictators and for democracy. Not uneducated and had he been in any political party in the west he would have been contender for the party leader position. This man gav a 20 min lecture on how his family and him fought for democracy and here he is, in a party whose chairman is appointed not based on merit but based on their surname - Bhutto.

Had this been your run of the mill politician, it wouldn't have bothered me. But this man is a barrister! an intellectual and a student of political science - His hypocrisy disgusted me!

The second thing being how he said "People (Lawyers) I know became millionaires over night after Iftikhar Ch. was restored" - Name them and shame them then! It is your duty towards the public if someone has used personal connections to abuse the legal process!

You said that you know Ch. Nisar is part of Patwari mafia and you have known this for a while I am sure. Yet you only brought it to Parliaments attention when Nisar attacked you personally. Before that you weren't bothered, you weren't bothered that this mafia was causing inconvenience to people of Pakistan, the people you are representing in Parliament!

I was proud to hear a learned man speak in Parliament and disgusted to see that over the years the system didn't change but it did change people and made them accept this abomination in the name of democracy!.

The intellectual gap between PPP's top brass and PML-N's top brass is humongous. Almost shameful.

On one side we have people like Aitzaz Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Babar Awan and on the other there are patwaris like Saad Rafique, Mushahidullah and Khwaja Asif

Entirely agree with these 2 posts!

 

[waqar goraya]

PMLN and Nisar shooting themselves in the foot here The floods making them look like the idiots that they are. Given their recent blunders, I dont see much support from them, even from GT road constituencies.

Perfect opportunity for PPP to do some siyasat, but I completely side with AA on this issue.

Finally some sense prevailed as IK is moving the dharna back to D chowk now. Only wanna-be Qadri left now.

In IR, there are theories defining crisis as a phenomenon with 3crucial elements - low time, level of threat and the elemnt of surprise. While definitely not over, I'd say at least there is now enough time to diffuse the situation altogether.

The message has been sent and is now loud and clear - PMLN needs to get their sh!t together - all threats to the continuity of the system would now result from their own failings.

Is it your wish or your prediction ?

If it is a prediction then let me tell you that PPP have been cleaned out from Punjab, other than few rural or south Punjab areas because of electables.

 

[waqar goraya]

What an epic trolling from two chaudhrys. Both accuse each other of corruption.

And in the end both excuse and forgive each other.

Parday mein rehna do parda na uthao, parda jo uth gya to baedh khul jae ga !

 

[KarachiKing]

Is it your wish or your prediction ?

If it is a prediction then let me tell you that PPP have been cleaned out from Punjab, other than few rural or south Punjab areas because of electables.

PPP will never be cleaned out. Only party in Pakistan with grassroots support and only truly national party in the country apart from maybe PTI now which is a recent phenomenon.