Quaid-e-Azam Trophy : 21/6 - Is this the standard of domestic pitches or are our batsmen so rubbish?

[MenInG]

I am just flabbergasted.

How is this even possible? How can a batting line up be so bad? Or are the pitches this bad?

 

[jeetu]

Shocking batting performance.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I was just listening to the commies live on PTV Sports, and it seems that the groundsmen prepared the pitch to hold up for six days hence the grass left on the turf to hold the soil together for long periods of times. As this is the 1st session of the 1st day, there is so much juice in the pitch up front and Asif being; the clever bowler he is, perfectly exploited these conditions.

However, I totally agree with Imran Farhat's interview during the match, where he said that due to these nature of pitches the batsmen cannot be expansive in their range of shots and that is effectively the reason why we see survival first mentality, for any up coming batsmen from the QEA or Pakistan Domestics.

We all bash Azhar, Sami, Asad and (I can't believe I am saying this) Ahmed Shehzad etc etc but the reality is that there are tons of batsmen in the mold of them because the pitches are, as they say, green freaking mambas.

The only exception to this rule is probably Babar who can both play dry as a batsmen and can up the ante as well.

 

[Ellipsism]

I was just listening to the commies live on PTV Sports, and it seems that the groundsmen prepared the pitch to hold up for six days hence the grass left on the turf to hold the soil together for long periods of times. As this is the 1st session of the 1st day, there is so much juice in the pitch up front and Asif being; the clever bowler he is, perfectly exploited these conditions.

However, I totally agree with Imran Farhat's interview during the match, where he said that due to these nature of pitches the batsmen cannot be expansive in their range of shots and that is effectively the reason why we see survival first mentality, for any up coming batsmen from the QEA or Pakistan Domestics.

We all bash Azhar, Sami, Asad and (I can't believe I am saying this) Ahmed Shehzad etc etc but the reality is that there are tons of batsmen in the mold of them because the pitches are, as they say, green freaking mambas.

The only exception to this rule is probably Babar who can both play dry as a batsmen and can up the ante as well.

You forgot to mention in consequence of these green mambas, trundlers end up with averages below 20.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

You forgot to mention in consequence of these green mambas, trundlers end up with averages below 20.

Case in Point : Hamad Azam

 

[Ellipsism]

Case in Point : Hamad Azam

There are countless examples Sadaf, Tabish, Shera... And the list goes on.

It's a travesty to see such one-dimensional bowlers getting truckloads of wickets for fun.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

There are countless examples Sadaf, Tabish, Shera... And the list goes on.

It's a travesty to see such one-dimensional bowlers getting truckloads of wickets for fun.

Putting Sadaf and Tabish Together is unfair bro. Sadaf has proven he's a pretty decent prospect even when he played league cricket in England which do not have such under prepared tracks.

Tabish however is in the league of Hammad, Najaf Shah, Samiullah Khan Niazi who all have gun FC career stats by feasting on the inability of PCB to improve domestic pitches !!

 

[Junaids]

There are countless examples Sadaf, Tabish, Shera... And the list goes on.

It's a travesty to see such one-dimensional bowlers getting truckloads of wickets for fun.

The cream still rises to the top.

On the most bowling-friendly pitches you will recall that Waqas Maqsood was taking more wickets than Asif, just because of his angle.

But now that we are at the business end of the season and the batsmen are better and the pitches are relatively better, suddenly it's obvious what the gulf in class is.

Just look at today:

Waqas Maqsood 7-1-23-0
Mohammad Asif 8-3-8-3

 

[Ellipsism]

Putting Sadaf and Tabish Together is unfair bro. Sadaf has proven he's a pretty decent prospect even when he played league cricket in England which do not have such under prepared tracks.

Tabish however is in the league of Hammad, Najaf Shah, Samiullah Khan Niazi who all have gun FC career stats by feasting on the inability of PCB to improve domestic pitches !!

I haven't personally witnessed the standard of cricket being played in league cricket but I'm presuming it is the equivalent of Pakistani club cricket?

 

[Slog]

Lol the problem is that the top 5 of HBL either has internationals or players who have been earmarked for internationals

 

[Slog]

The cream still rises to the top.

On the most bowling-friendly pitches you will recall that Waqas Maqsood was taking more wickets than Asif, just because of his angle.

But now that we are at the business end of the season and the batsmen are better and the pitches are relatively better, suddenly it's obvious what the gulf in class is.

Just look at today:

Waqas Maqsood 7-1-23-0
Mohammad Asif 8-3-8-3

Irfan 3-10

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I haven't personally witnessed the standard of cricket being played in league cricket but I'm presuming it is the equivalent of Pakistani club cricket?

League cricket in England is very competitive (higher standard than Club Cricket in Pakistan), and this kind of culture has been apparent since ages. Even Fazal used to play League cricket for Lancs (Was a superstar there) and then would represent Pakistan and be the gun bowler for us internationally.

If someone is performing in English League cricket, especially as a bowler, then he has good potential and would hold his own in International Cricket as well.

I am not too sure of what the standard of English league cricket is at the moment, especially for counties such as Lancs etc etc maybe [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] can give an insight on whether the latter tourney is competitive enough to groom an international.

But previously I know it was very decent and highly competitive.

 

[Ellipsism]

Irfan 3-10

Only Asif's performance matters.

 

[Junaids]

Only Asif's performance matters.

I have been arguing for months that Irfan should play the MCG Test.

 

[Slog]

I have been arguing for months that Irfan should play the MCG Test.

Since when?

All I've seen is your lovefest with Butt and Asif

 

[Junaids]

Since when?

All I've seen is your lovefest with Butt and Asif

I've written threads about the different conditions at Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney.

And my preferred attacks have been:

Brisbane: Amir, Asif, Hasan Ali, Aamer Yamin + Hafeez since the 7 Aussies leftie selection occured.
MCG: Irfan, Asif, Wahab, Yasir + Hafeez
Sydney: Amir, Asif, Wahab, Yasir + Hafeez

 

[NauV]

Nope! Pitches yes . . but mostly the prevalent batting talent in the country! It's appalling . . we love to castigate the selectors for picking the same team, but there is not much to choose from . .

After a really long time, I watched this T20 cup a few months ago . . and then I watched the QEA . . I was shocked to see the standard of cricket . . standard of batting . . standard of fielding . . its poor! its abysmal . .

 

[MenInG]

I was absolutely appalled by 21/6 in a final! Have we got such a calibre of bowlers? also very intriguing was the inability of the WAPDA bowlers to finish off the remaining 4 batsmen for under 100! I am sorry but this is ridiculous. Someone's head needs to go for preparing such a pitch

 

[New Yorker]

You forgot to mention in consequence of these green mambas, trundlers end up with averages below 20.

That's not a problem. Because the best bowlers end up with averages of
10-15 something. Check the season averages.

The upside to this green mamba calamity is that batsmen who are scoring
heavily even in such conditions should become easy selections.

I am waiting for everyone who has moaned on this thread to clamour for
Kami's selection. And I know I will keep waiting. Logic is not what this
board runs on.

Because this anxiety over poor pitches speaks as much to a deeply situated
sense of insecurity and inferiority as it does to the problem of selection.

A sign of also of the political times. People don't a have sense that they
can trust in anything but speed in the case of bowlers, and pugilistic
tough talk in the case of politicians.

It is the era of thugs, and thuggish fan commentary. We don't need skill,
brains, or discipline, just aggression and speed. If we write "trundler"
often enough we can start to believe that we are making an argument.

 

[Ellipsism]

That's not a problem. Because the best bowlers end up with averages of
10-15 something. Check the season averages.

The upside to this green mamba calamity is that batsmen who are scoring
heavily even in such conditions should become easy selections.

I am waiting for everyone who has moaned on this thread to clamour for
Kami's selection. And I know I will keep waiting. Logic is not what this
board runs on.

Because this anxiety over poor pitches speaks as much to a deeply situated
sense of insecurity and inferiority as it does to the problem of selection.

A sign of also of the political times. People don't a have sense that they
can trust in anything but speed in the case of bowlers, and pugilistic
tough talk in the case of politicians.

It is the era of thugs, and thuggish fan commentary. We don't need skill,
brains, or discipline, just aggression and speed. If we write "trundler"
often enough we can start to believe that we are making an argument.

If Wahab out bowls Hazlewood in the UAE due to a lack of bounce, does that mean Wahab is a better bowler than Hazlewood?

 

[New Yorker]

If Wahab out bowls Hazlewood in the UAE due to a lack of bounce, does that mean Wahab is a better bowler than Hazlewood?

I have no idea. Even what you are trying to get at it. Nor do I understand the very strange tense
that you operate in when debating selection. Selection is not about knowing the future, it is about making
the best possible bet. And you do that using as many indicators as are available to you. Among
these record of performance. Ie how many wickets a bowler has taken over a significant period of
time. Ie statistics. My point was that it is not quite as difficult as you make out to parse good
selection options from less good selection options, even if the pitches are very helpful, because
performance is always relative. If everyone is averaging 20 you pick the bowlers who are averaging
15.

 

[New Yorker]

There are countless examples Sadaf, Tabish, Shera... And the list goes on.

It's a travesty to see such one-dimensional bowlers getting truckloads of wickets for fun.

The question would have to be, back when Sadaf averaged 20 did everyone else also average 20?
And the answer is no. Nor did everyone else win player of the series in two A tours. There is nothing
wrong with being skeptical about indicators, but you flaunt your prejudice when you pretend that
they are not there at all.

 

[Ellipsism]

I have no idea. Even what you are trying to get at it. Nor do I understand the very strange tense
that you operate in when debating selection. Selection is not about knowing the future, it is about making
the best possible bet. And you do that using as many indicators as are available to you. Among
these record of performance. Ie how many wickets a bowler has taken over a significant period of
time. Ie statistics. My point was that it is not quite as difficult as you make out to parse good
selection options from less good selection options, even if the pitches are very helpful, because
performance is always relative. If everyone is averaging 20 you pick the bowlers who are averaging
15.

I don't concur with this method for selection, especially in the case of Pakistan.

Why? On account of the dodgy batsman and some of the poorly prepared pitches.

I have enough trust in the selectors eye for talent . On the off chance that they recognize a player whom they accept is gifted the player will subsequently be picked for the A-Team. Once they perform at the "A" stage they can progress to the national group.

 

[troodon]

Pakistan bowlers are just too good for your own batsmen.

 

[Abdullah719]

I don't concur with this method for selection, especially in the case of Pakistan.

Why? On account of the dodgy batsman and some of the poorly prepared pitches.

I have enough trust in the selectors eye for talent . On the off chance that they recognize a player whom they accept is gifted the player will subsequently be picked for the A-Team. Once they perform at the "A" stage they can progress to the national group.

But when things happen as in the cases of Abbas and Jaahid, you have to wonder.

Abbas was picked for the England Lions / SL A tour on the back of his QeA performances. Didn't play in the 4-day games, only played in the latter 50-over ones.

Jaahid was selected for Zimbabwe A tour with the reputation of being a gritty long-format opener. Plays the 50-over games which were first, doesn't do well and is dropped for the first four-day game with Fakhar Zaman opening instead. Plays the 2nd game... where Umar Amin opens the batting instead.

What is the point of being selected for the A team if they won't be played in their stronger format?

 

[Ellipsism]

But when things happen as in the cases of Abbas and Jaahid, you have to wonder.

Abbas was picked for the England Lions / SL A tour on the back of his QeA performances. Didn't play in the 4-day games, only played in the latter 50-over ones.

Jaahid was selected for Zimbabwe A tour with the reputation of being a gritty long-format opener. Plays the 50-over games which were first, doesn't do well and is dropped for the first four-day game with Fakhar Zaman opening instead. Plays the 2nd game... where Umar Amin opens the batting instead.

What is the point of being selected for the A team if they won't be played in their stronger format?

That is the incompetency of the team management of the A-team.

 

[MMHS]

It's a D/N final & the match is scheduled for 5 days. What PCB's groundsman has done is, to keep the wicket bonded, he has put lots of fresh grass on the track. Together with Asif & batsmen's skills, first few overs of pink ball was unplayable.

But, the wicket is not hard enough, neither the grass are deep rooted, therefore after opening hour, with the moisture gone, it became easier to play out. Besides, it's mid DEC, therefore there must be lots of dew which won't help swinging the ball. I expect the grass to turn brown by tomorrow & it will turn into a batting paradise. It's a 5 day match, hence, we should see a direct result; but I won't be surprised if next 2 innings are high scoring.

Asif bowled exceptionally well - but how much it's his skills, how much condition assisted & how much is batsmen's incompetence - we might have a reality check in 2nd innings, when HBank is likely to bat on Day 3 evening/night session.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

The standard of Fc pitches is the same since last 10-15 years. Some pitches have something for both batsman and bowlers, some are tilted towards spinners and some towards seamers. Majority favour seamers.

As far as the batsman are concerned not all batsman are Crap.


Imam, Ahsan, Jaahid, Ghanchi cannot be termed as Crap Openers.

Similarly Saud, Saad, Waqas Snr, Salahuddin, Kamran, Zakir, Zeeshan, Agha cannot be termed as Crap. Some of them have the capacity to be successful international players.


But Yes alot of improvement needed in pitches, coaching and fitness of players plus change of ball being used.


This has been said since 2003 yet there is negligible improvement.


This is nothing new. Those who say its last 2-3 or 5 years phenomenon are at fault.

 

[Ellipsism]

The standard of Fc pitches is the same since last 10-15 years. Some pitches have something for both batsman and bowlers, some are tilted towards spinners and some towards seamers. Majority favour seamers.

As far as the batsman are concerned not all batsman are Crap.


Imam, Ahsan, Jaahid, Ghanchi cannot be termed as Crap Openers.

Similarly Saud, Saad, Waqas Snr, Salahuddin, Kamran, Zakir, Zeeshan, Agha cannot be termed as Crap. Some of them have the capacity to be successful international players.


But Yes alot of improvement needed in pitches, coaching and fitness of players plus change of ball being used.


This has been said since 2003 yet there is negligible improvement.


This is nothing new. Those who say its last 2-3 or 5 years phenomenon are at fault.

I distinctly remember you saying that the reason Asif averaged 25 in FC class was because of the better pitches that were served 5-8 years ago.

 

[New Yorker]

I don't concur with this method for selection, especially in the case of Pakistan.

Why? On account of the dodgy batsman and some of the poorly prepared pitches.

I have enough trust in the selectors eye for talent . On the off chance that they recognize a player whom they accept is gifted the player will subsequently be picked for the A-Team. Once they perform at the "A" stage they can progress to the national group.

It does not matter what the conditions are, if everyone plays in the same conditions
you can still do that thing you know, called comparison. And dodgy batsmen and
poorly prepared pitches do not change that. If the batsmen are bad the best bowlers
will get them out even faster. Hence we continue to have a spread in averages
among the top bowlers, which you persistently try to pretend away. It is not merely
the case that everyone now averages about the same, and hence we can't tell the
difference among them. No,we can still tell differences.

Now selection on the basis of real world performance is not fool proof, one
can never predict with any certainty that the selection will come good in
international arena, but the real problem with what you are proposing is
that there is absolutely zero zip zilch evidence that just letting selectors
intuit the right choice would work better. Selectors make stupid calls all
the time. (I gave an example of Shinwari and you very tellingly couldn digest it.)
They often contradict themselves.

In fact what you are proposing is not a method at all, ie something that operates
according to a system, thus also enabling fine tuning and improvement.
It is much more akin to a lurch into a kind of religious political conservatism,
the fetishization of speed/strength, and blind faith in authority/power, ie the
selectors know best. To which you supplement a semi thuggish language
contemptuous of anyone who lacks this virility, ie "trundlers." It is almost
as if we should be outraged that trundlers are taking wickets, not so much
because this belies their actual skill - who knows they could actually be very
skilled - but because they don't *deserve* taking wickets.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I distinctly remember you saying that the reason Asif averaged 25 in FC class was because of the better pitches that were served 5-8 years ago.

No.


Some players excel more in domestic cricket while some players excel more in Int Cricket once they jump to the next stage. Players like Asif & Yousuf were of that type.

Asif was never top wicket taker in any Season when Bob saw something special in him and selected him. Asif had an ordinary debut and got dropped. Int Cricket appealed him and he was in love with it and once he got dropped he felt like a fish thrown out of water eager to come back. Once he returned he was 300 times improved Asif.

What Asif did at probably Bagh e Jimnah against England team in a warm up match was something He had not ever done in his domesric cricket in last 6-7 years.


This is why when people bring in pitches and compare his numbers with Abass, Tabish, Sameen, Irfanullah, Shera, Mir etc I smile.


Sadaf is was never Asif type bowler or of his quality but He is also not worthy of being compared with Tabish Abass etc. When he was in his best form he played for a very very weak regional team and he destroyed batting line ups of top departmental teams. His ratio of fivefers and tenfers was the best in Last 50 years. To say it was pitches magic is an insult when all others were playing on the same pitches. Him not playing President Trophy and opting for Qea trophy was the worst professional blunder of his life where he listened to the advice of a man who from 2014 to 2016 made sure that He doesn't even get picked for Pakistan A. Othetwise a successful Test & Odi debut was on cards for a 6'4 medium fast bowler on juicy SA surfaces in 2013. Hope he regains his lost form and most importantly his confidence.

 

[Abdullah719]

That is the incompetency of the team management of the A-team.

Therefore an already flawed system is even further comprised due to a lack of communication.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

The talent pool is spread out. 16 teams is way too much.

 

[Ellipsism]

It does not matter what the conditions are, if everyone plays in the same conditions
you can still do that thing you know, called comparison. And dodgy batsmen and
poorly prepared pitches do not change that. If the batsmen are bad the best bowlers
will get them out even faster. Hence we continue to have a spread in averages
among the top bowlers, which you persistently try to pretend away. It is not merely
the case that everyone now averages about the same, and hence we can't tell the
difference among them. No,we can still tell differences.

Now selection on the basis of real world performance is not fool proof, one
can never predict with any certainty that the selection will come good in
international arena, but the real problem with what you are proposing is
that there is absolutely zero zip zilch evidence that just letting selectors
intuit the right choice would work better. Selectors make stupid calls all
the time. (I gave an example of Shinwari and you very tellingly couldn digest it.)
They often contradict themselves.

In fact what you are proposing is not a method at all, ie something that operates
according to a system, thus also enabling fine tuning and improvement.
It is much more akin to a lurch into a kind of religious political conservatism,
the fetishization of speed/strength, and blind faith in authority/power, ie the
selectors know best. To which you supplement a semi thuggish language
contemptuous of anyone who lacks this virility, ie "trundlers." It is almost
as if we should be outraged that trundlers are taking wickets, not so much
because this belies their actual skill - who knows they could actually be very
skilled - but because they don't *deserve* taking wickets.

Usman Shinwari was picked based off the campaigning done by Misbah and Hafeez.

FC statistics do have a part to play, to a degree. To which I will talk about later.

What is the reason for a selector? On the off chance that players are to be chosen off scorecards (what you are fundamentally proposing), why burn through a large sum of dollars on hiring 4-5 selectors?

All things considered Sharyhar Khan ought to pick the squad, I'm certain he is completely fit for bouncing onto ESPN and checking scorecards.

Who are we to know if these bowlers are skilled or not? That is what I'm proposing; selectors to attend games and pick players for the A-Team whom they believe are capable of representing Pakistan.

 

[Junaids]

It's a D/N final & the match is scheduled for 5 days. What PCB's groundsman has done is, to keep the wicket bonded, he has put lots of fresh grass on the track. Together with Asif & batsmen's skills, first few overs of pink ball was unplayable.

But, the wicket is not hard enough, neither the grass are deep rooted, therefore after opening hour, with the moisture gone, it became easier to play out. Besides, it's mid DEC, therefore there must be lots of dew which won't help swinging the ball. I expect the grass to turn brown by tomorrow & it will turn into a batting paradise. It's a 5 day match, hence, we should see a direct result; but I won't be surprised if next 2 innings are high scoring.

Asif bowled exceptionally well - but how much it's his skills, how much condition assisted & how much is batsmen's incompetence - we might have a reality check in 2nd innings, when HBank is likely to bat on Day 3 evening/night session.

Boss (see, I can do it to you too!), you are overlooking a crucial factor here.

Mohammad Asif's game has always, like Glenn McGrath, been based upon absolute mastery of line and length. In contrast with what people write, it's not about magical swing or seam, just absolute control.

Which is why his international record is better than his domestic one.

In his first spell with favourable conditions he took 6-3-6-3

But then with a withered rag of a ball on a dry pitch with no seam movement at all, he took:

12.4-1-23-1

In many ways it was the later spells that were even more impressive. He bowled more overs than anybody else, but kept his pace at the same roughly 130K mark as always and most importantly kept his immaculate control.

That is why, Boss, he should be the first bowler whose name goes on the national team's Test teamsheet.

 

[Junaids]

Mohammad Asif's game has always, like Glenn McGrath, been based upon absolute mastery of line and length. In contrast with what people write, it's not about magical swing or seam, just absolute control.

Which is why his international record is better than his domestic one.

In his first spell with favourable conditions he took 6-3-6-3

But then with a withered rag of a ball on a dry pitch with no seam movement at all, he took:

12.4-1-23-1

In many ways it was the later spells that were even more impressive. He bowled more overs than anybody else, but kept his pace at the same roughly 130K mark as always and most importantly kept his immaculate control.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I would add that in Pink Ball Day/Night Test cricket in Australia, if you have to bowl during the 60 daytime overs you have very little assistance from the conditions.

So, Boss, you end up needing to strangle the scoring rate totally in the hope that the batsmen will get themselves out taking risks before the floodlights come on.

Imagine the following scenario.

Pakistan is put in to bat at Brisbane by Australia. Starc and Hazlewood reduce them to 25-3 at Drinks and then 60-4 at Tea. But the old ball offers Australia less, and Pakistan reach 95-4 at Drinks in the Second Session and 150-6 at Dinner.

Misbah can't bring himself to declare on such a low total - I would, in the belief that I can only win by having Australia 65-7 under lights. So he bats on until the second new ball finishes off the innings at 210 all out. Pakistan only get to bowl 3 overs under lights, and Australia lose Renshaw to finish at 8-1.

Now Pakistan has a problem. They have to bowl 60 overs in daylight and even when the floodlights come on they will be stuck with an old ball for the first hour (18 overs to the new ball).

They need a bowler to keep it tight, so very, very tight, in daylight.

In the 60 overs of daylight I would imagine the following figures:

Amir 14-4-50-1
Rahat 14-2-60-1
Sohail 14-2-66-1
Wahab 12-0-55-1
Yasir 15-3-55-1

Obviously only 4 of those 5 will play, but however you slice it that means Australia scoring roughly 240-3 in daylight to get to Dinner at 250-4, with a very old ball for the next hour. They might be 340-6 by then, and unbeatable.

Pakistan would be much, much safer if they had Mohammad Asif bowling a stiflingly tight line and length during daylight, for figures of 14-5-25-1.

Because they might restrict Australia to adding 160 in the two daylights sessions to be 170-5 when the floodlights come on, still 40 behind.

And if they keep it tight in the final session then Australia might be all out themselves to the second new ball at 220 all out, leaving Pakistan just 5 overs to face in the dark before they can build a winning total in daylight the next day.

I don't see how they can do this without Asif.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Nice game plan Boss, though none of the 2 D/N Tests followed your script. Regarding Asif - now I came to know that you back his accuracy rather than his crafty wicket taking balls. Now, for a bowler playing 17 of his 23 Tests outside Asia - his economy is 3 (2.99 to be precise) - that too playing last Test in 2010, when average economy was much lower than current.

I actually will use a bowler in a bit different way, whose economy is 3, BUT Strike Rate is 48

 

[MMHS]

It's a D/N final & the match is scheduled for 5 days. What PCB's groundsman has done is, to keep the wicket bonded, he has put lots of fresh grass on the track. Together with Asif & batsmen's skills, first few overs of pink ball was unplayable.

But, the wicket is not hard enough, neither the grass are deep rooted, therefore after opening hour, with the moisture gone, it became easier to play out. Besides, it's mid DEC, therefore there must be lots of dew which won't help swinging the ball. I expect the grass to turn brown by tomorrow & it will turn into a batting paradise. It's a 5 day match, hence, we should see a direct result; but I won't be surprised if next 2 innings are high scoring.

Asif bowled exceptionally well - but how much it's his skills, how much condition assisted & how much is batsmen's incompetence - we might have a reality check in 2nd innings, when HBank is likely to bat on Day 3 evening/night session.

50 of 20 overs - more preciously, 24 in 15 overs. I Guess, my hunch was right - this is another special fro PCB farmers. You can stick on to the wicket as long as you don't get bored, but scoring rate will be the issue. Perfect place to produce Fawad Alams & Azhar Alis.........

 

[New Yorker]

Usman Shinwari was picked based off the campaigning done by Misbah and Hafeez.

FC statistics do have a part to play, to a degree. To which I will talk about later.

What is the reason for a selector? On the off chance that players are to be chosen off scorecards (what you are fundamentally proposing), why burn through a large sum of dollars on hiring 4-5 selectors?

All things considered Sharyhar Khan ought to pick the squad, I'm certain he is completely fit for bouncing onto ESPN and checking scorecards.

Who are we to know if these bowlers are skilled or not? That is what I'm proposing; selectors to attend games and pick players for the A-Team whom they believe are capable of representing Pakistan.

I don't see the case for Shahriyar. There is a reason no functioning cricket system anywhere else in
the world has operated on this dictatorial model, ever. Because it wouldnt be a system anymore.

It does however go to my point about your authoritarianism that you think the solution to everything
is one strong leader.

Believing that A tours can work as a selection mechanism does not get rid of the problem of selection.
Who do you select for the A tours? And how many players can reasonably be given a trial in A tours
every year? They are incredibly few and far between.

And yes indeed, selectors are vulnerable to lobbying. They also play favorites and carry grudges. And
many times just get it wrong. Of course they have a role to play, but one cannot rely on their intuition
alone.

Indeed to do is so to invite corruption and nepotism.

We can never know for certain how skilled players are but there are indicators that can help us place good
bets. And there is no better indicator than their ability to take wickets and score runs over a meaningful
period of time.

If someone is topping charts for several years running but does not get selected then the selectors have
clearly not done their job. For a fact.

Because whatever they think to know about the prerequisites for success, the kind of technique that is
required etc, they need always to reevaluate in the face of actual evidences to the contrary.

When scientists discover that their theories for how the world works no longer have sufficient explanatory
power they can't pretend that reality is 'wrong.' They have to adjust their theories to match what they see.
Many PPers yourself included find it all too difficult to grasp this.

Wisdom is not knowing everything. Only the fool believes that it is necessary to know everything. Wisdom
is knowing what you dont know.

 

[New Yorker]

Usman Shinwari was picked based off the campaigning done by Misbah and Hafeez.

FC statistics do have a part to play, to a degree. To which I will talk about later.

What is the reason for a selector? On the off chance that players are to be chosen off scorecards (what you are fundamentally proposing), why burn through a large sum of dollars on hiring 4-5 selectors?

All things considered Sharyhar Khan ought to pick the squad, I'm certain he is completely fit for bouncing onto ESPN and checking scorecards.

Who are we to know if these bowlers are skilled or not? That is what I'm proposing; selectors to attend games and pick players for the A-Team whom they believe are capable of representing Pakistan.

Please disregard my comment re Shariyar I misread your point in your post.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

OK so has anyone changed his mind about the pitch on which the final is being played yet?

 

[LordJames]

Pitch has to last "6" days because tomorrow is a rest day.

 

[MMHS]

No more discussion on this thread?