Question about Indian pronunciations

[Stewie]

Maybe the Indians here can help explain why is it that some Indians (not all) pronounce certain letters of Urdu alphabets a certain way.

The letter J or Jeem in Urdu comes out as a Z, while the words with the Z sound end up as J. For instance, if I were to say ... "Jaleel buhat Zaleel hai" .. some indians might say : "Zaleel buhat Jaleel hai"

Is it a case of a tongue twister for the Indians or do they think they are using the right pronunciation? Its funny because they sound fine while speaking English, for instance I have heard them pronounce English words with J and Z sounds just as normal.

 

[MenInG]

Maybe the Indians here can help explain why is it that some Indians (not all) pronounce certain letters of Urdu alphabets a certain way.

The letter J or Jeem in Urdu comes out as a Z, while the words with the Z sound end up as J. For instance, if I were to say ... "Jaleel buhat Zaleel hai" .. some indians might say : "Zaleel buhat Jaleel hai"

Is it a case of a tongue twister for the Indians or do they think they are using the right pronunciation? Its funny because they sound fine while speaking English, for instance I have heard them pronounce English words with J and Z sounds just as normal.

Well its normal to them - so not an issue with me at all.

Same in Arabic - In Egypt Jeem is Gaff but its fine for people of Egypt.

 

[Stewie]

Well its normal to them - so not an issue with me at all.

Same in Arabic - In Egypt Jeem is Gaff but its fine for people of Egypt.

But there is a difference, arabs cannot pronounce certain letters such as P. But Indians can. They just do the old switcheroo thing. Thats why I was hoping to get an authentic answer.

 

[Local.Dada]

You have to be more specific. India has a million languages and a zillion dialects on top of that for every region and language.

Even a Muslim Urdu speaker from Hyderabad will sound totally different from a Muslim Urdu speaker from Lucknow to some other region within India.

I will give you the benefit of doubt that you didn’t think that part through but that’s your answer.

 

[Stewie]

You have to be more specific. India has a million languages and a zillion dialects on top of that for every region and language.

Even a Muslim Urdu speaker from Hyderabad will sound totally different from a Muslim Urdu speaker from Lucknow to some other region within India.

I will give you the benefit of doubt that you didn’t think that part through but that’s your answer.

So are you saying you have never any of your countrymen pronounce the words the way I described them? If my understanding is correct, the guys I have heard do this most are from Gujarat. Does that help?

 

[Local.Dada]

So are you saying you have never any of your countrymen pronounce the words the way I described them? If my understanding is correct, the guys I have heard do this most are from Gujarat. Does that help?

I am sure they do pronounce it that way. Urdu is not their native tongue.

You have picked a very complicated topic of linguistics and tried to over simplify the question.

For example some Malayalis and Bengalis have a very thick accent no matter what language they speak and pronounce some basic words differently.

India is the 7th biggest country in the world size wise and has 1.3 billion people and probably as many languages, how does one answer this question lol.

Maybe since you are narrowing it down to Gujarati speaking folk maybe they can answer that for you.

Your question sounds like if some Indian asks why does every Pakistani grow a beard and wear shalwar Kurta and speak in a Punjabi accented Urdu? Is that a true statement?

Now think of an answer to my question and apply it to your question. It will make it clear but if you want more depth you should wait for a linguistic expert.

 

[Justcrazy]

In India different states have different languages and dialects, they pronounce in different ways. Its quiet natural.

 

[Stewie]

I am sure they do pronounce it that way. Urdu is not their native tongue.

You have picked a very complicated topic of linguistics and tried to over simplify the question.

For example some Malayalis and Bengalis have a very thick accent no matter what language they speak and pronounce some basic words differently.

India is the 7th biggest country in the world size wise and has 1.3 billion people and probably as many languages, how does one answer this question lol.

Maybe since you are narrowing it down to Gujarati speaking folk maybe they can answer that for you.

Your question sounds like if some Indian asks why does every Pakistani grow a beard and wear shalwar Kurta and speak in a Punjabi accented Urdu? Is that a true statement?

Now think of an answer to my question and apply it to your question. It will make it clear but if you want more depth you should wait for a linguistic expert.

Isn’t hindi your national language? Which is basically Urdu with maybe Sanskrit and other local words mixed in?

Doesn’t hindi have words like “Mujhey”? I have heard people pronounce it as “Mujhey” I think the examples I gave in my original post are probably the best examples and they are not specific to urdu. I think they go for hindi as well.

My question is not meant to be offensive but it seems like you guys are getting defensive about this question. No hard feelings.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Maybe the Indians here can help explain why is it that some Indians (not all) pronounce certain letters of Urdu alphabets a certain way.

The letter J or Jeem in Urdu comes out as a Z, while the words with the Z sound end up as J. For instance, if I were to say ... "Jaleel buhat Zaleel hai" .. some indians might say : "Zaleel buhat Jaleel hai"

Is it a case of a tongue twister for the Indians or do they think they are using the right pronunciation? Its funny because they sound fine while speaking English, for instance I have heard them pronounce English words with J and Z sounds just as normal.

I remember Gawaskar pronouncing Ijaz as Ijaj

 

[Itachi]

Isn’t hindi your national language? Which is basically Urdu with maybe Sanskrit and other local words mixed in?

Doesn’t hindi have words like “Mujhey”? I have heard people pronounce it as “Mujhey” I think the examples I gave in my original post are probably the best examples and they are not specific to urdu. I think they go for hindi as well.

My question is not meant to be offensive but it seems like you guys are getting defensive about this question. No hard feelings.

We don't have national language.

There are 23 languages which are official. Hindi is spoken mostly in central and North India. Rest of the states have their own local language. Most people of those states speak broken hindi because it's rarely used there.

 

[MenInG]

In Bengali (and someone can confirm) there is no 'v'?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Same thing with every language in India.
Dialects and Languages changes every 50-100 KM.

There are innumerable communities and countless languages, practices and beliefs.

 

[Itachi]

In Bengali (and someone can confirm) there is no 'v'?

Depends on how you pronounce this "v".

 

[introvert]

You will regularly notice this mistake of pronouncing z as j or jh because if I'm not wrong there is no "z" alphabet in Gujarati so native Gujarati speakers are not used to pronouncing it regularly if they are not familiar with urdu words or names in daily lives. They pronounce zaat (self) as jaat, zakir as jakir etc.

 

[RajBan]

In Bengali (and someone can confirm) there is no 'v'?

Correct. It's there in Devnagari script but not in Bengali.

 

[Stewie]

You will regularly notice this mistake of pronouncing z as j or jh because if I'm not wrong there is no "z" alphabet in Gujarati so native Gujarati speakers are not used to pronouncing it regularly if they are not familiar with urdu words or names in daily lives. They pronounce zaat (self) as jaat, zakir as jakir etc.

But I have heard hem do the reverse, saying "muzhey" rather than "mujhey" in Hindi/Urdu.
Maybe its overcompensation, I dont know. But Z and J are frequently flipped while conversing.
Using J over Z happens more often though so yes, I guess there is no Z in native Gujarati. But then again I have heard even INDIAN PUNjABIS do that as well. They pronounce "Zindagi" as "Jindagi", I have heard that often times but punjabis/sikhs, GUJARATIS, etc. so this particular J and Z is more widespread amongst Indians regardless of where they come from, except maybe for South Indians.

 

[ElRaja]

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saw this video some time ago on the same issue

 

[Stewie]

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saw this video some time ago on the same issue

Oh man, thank you for sharing the video, that’s EXACTLY what I was trying to ask.. he seems to have addressed my exact point.. I think they over compensate and use the Z sound for the J words where it’s not intended to be used. Because Z sound is not in Hindi or other languages.

 

[introvert]

But I have heard hem do the reverse, saying "muzhey" rather than "mujhey" in Hindi/Urdu.
Maybe its overcompensation, I dont know. But Z and J are frequently flipped while conversing.
Using J over Z happens more often though so yes, I guess there is no Z in native Gujarati. But then again I have heard even INDIAN PUNjABIS do that as well. They pronounce "Zindagi" as "Jindagi", I have heard that often times but punjabis/sikhs, GUJARATIS, etc. so this particular J and Z is more widespread amongst Indians regardless of where they come from, except maybe for South Indians.

It is widespread issue because either z alphabet is missing in their script or it is rarely used even in writing so it's almost forgotten. Hence even hindi speakers struggles with it's use.

It's also because of their diction. They have developed their own set of pronunciations down the years. So the situation is irreversible now because they have adopted lots of z word as their own with j pronunciation.

so it's pretty difficult for average Joe to get accustomed with z pronunciation and honestly it's bit harsh to expect them to use z pronunciation in day to day lives.

Although for the pronunciation of names they should be corrected everytime when they get it wrong because that's blatant disgrace imo if somebody repeatedly calls your name wrong.

 

[LongHorn]

Some Bengalis do this; switch the J and Z. They also switch S and Sh sometimes

 

[LongHorn]

As for some Pakistanis and Urdu speakers they over use the "Z" sound, very evident in the Gulf.

The Arabic Dwad is a thick and soft "D" sound, and is used in names like Riya-dh or "Rauada e Rasool)

In Urdu it becomes "Riyaz" and "Rauza" though Riyad would be a better pronunciation