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Quinton de Kock opts out of match against the West Indies after refusing to take knee

Should cricket boards make players take knee?


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I didn't know there were so many far-right ideologues on PP. Some of you even sound like Trump supporters.

At any rate, de Kock has opened the door to controversy and CSA will not take lightly to it. He better have a very good justification. Because this could be a career-ending action.

In my experience, I've observed that at least 90% of hindus and muslims of the subcontinent are proud right wingers. There are of course the caste and regional differences as well.
 
Surely this is optional.

Nobody should be forced to take the knee if they don't want to.
 
White South African in backwards racist shock.
 
On a day when South Africa were clinical in getting their first win at the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup 2021, captain Temba Bavuma was left dealing with the fallout of teammate Quinton de Kock’s decision to opt out of the game.
Bavuma said he was “taken aback” at de Kock's decision, which he found out in the changing room just before the start of the match against West Indies in Dubai.

And while Bavuma said his teammate is still “one of the boys” the team are bracing for challenging conversations in coming days.

Although de Kock himself has not elaborated on missing the game, statements from Cricket South Africa and Bavuma make it clear the decision had to do with CSA’s directive for all players to take the knee at the start of the game.

"We as a team were surprised and taken aback by the news," Bavuma said. "Quinton is a big player for the team, not only with the bat but also the role he plays from an experience point of view. Not having that at my disposal as a captain was obviously not something I was looking forward to.

"In saying that, Quinton is an adult. He’s a man in his own shoes. We respect his decision, we respect his convictions."

Bavuma was pragmatic when quizzed about de Kock's future playing for South Africa.

"It wouldn’t be my decision whether to replace Quinton or get a substitute," said Bavuma.

"As far as we stand, Quinton is still one of the players, one of the boys. So whatever support that he needs, whatever shoulder that he requires from his teammates will be there for him.

"And if there’s a need for further conversations to be had, those will definitely happen among the guys."

The skipper clarified that the instructions from the board to take the knee – "in a united and consistent stance" as the CSA statement later put it – was taken on the morning of the game. The message was passed on to them before they got on to the bus to travel to Dubai.

"The trip was about an hour and half to two hours. In that trip I guess that’s where Quinton made his decision. I found out when we got to the changing room.

"[The timing] was probably not ideal," he added. "The good thing is we were still able to find a way to get on the field and represent our country the way we did."

The timing meant the team had not had the time to discuss the matter with de Kock and clear the air, he explained.

"You've got to appreciate the fact that the instruction came this morning from the board and there wasn't a great deal of time for us to thoroughly discuss the matter. Unfortunately for us as players it was a matter of us digesting what we were told and finding a way for us to move forward.

"We have a couple of days before the next game. Those days will be tough for the group but guys who want to know his decision they will use the time to find it out a bit better."

At the start of the match, Daren Sammy, former West Indies captain, had said on commentary: "I don’t understand why it is so difficult to support this movement, if you understand what it stands for. There might be a lot of issues affecting the world, but I don’t understand why it’s so difficult."

Bavuma, however, expanded on the complexity of the issue when pressed on the directive and related discussion.

"I don't think it is as simple as taking the knee," he said. "We have to appreciate the fact that we live in a country like South Africa, that has its own past. That is diverse in its views and in the way people see things, their backgrounds, things that we support.

"As much as we are a team, we wear the same shirt, we play for the badge. But outside of that, we live our own lives and those lives are different by the very nature that we live in South Africa. For me, I’ve learnt to appreciate it a lot more, try to widen your own perspective as an individual and not expect people to see the things the way I see things.

"If there is a disagreement in terms of beliefs, that’s why we have those hard conversations."

Bavuma said although the bowlers and batters gave him plenty to celebrate, it was one of his “toughest days” as captain.

"We still had to get the job done. There was still a game of cricket for our country. And it was important that as much as everything was happening, we found a way to get into the right mental space and take it home for our country," he said. "I was just glad we were able to get into the right frame of mind as a team and played the way we played."

West Indies captain Kieron Pollard refused to speculate on the issue, but reiterated his team's commitment to taking the knee.

"It's something that we feel strongly about as a team and as a people, as well, and we will continue to do it," he said. "Each and everyone has their own opinions on it, but as I've always said, once you're educated and you understand, we will understand you doing it, but I think education sort of is the key, and we don't want anyone doing it for us in solitude or to feel sorry for us."

https://www.t20worldcup.com/news/2310242
 
This is not a small issue. Every reputed league including ipl, bbl, psl,t20 blast must boycott De Cock.
Pathetic from him IMO. It is easiest thing to stand behind if you are not white supremacist.
If you have such issues Q. Why do you come every year running to collect paycheck from brown man.
 
South African cricket is adamant on destroying itself due to its stubborn approach in everything.

No one should be forced to take the knee. Not everyone has had pleasant experiences when it comes to racial discrimination in life. Well done to QDQ actually

Even in NBA where overwhelming majority of players in all teams are black, no one was forced to take the knee.
 
What an Idiotic thing to say. If some protestor somewhere vandalise a statue. Does the movement lose its relevance??
However I could not fail to see irony of Indian cricketers taking knee for BLM while ignoring NRC,giving anti farmer tweets and failing to stand up for Shami.
Even BJP mp Gautam Gambhir fully supported Shami and chastised the trolls.
Apparently cricketers didn't get the memo as they were in bio bubble.
 
This is probably the end of his international career. He will now retire and play county cricket / T20 leagues around the world.
 
What an Idiotic thing to say. If some protestor somewhere vandalise a statue. Does the movement lose its relevance??
However I could not fail to see irony of Indian cricketers taking knee for BLM while ignoring NRC,giving anti farmer tweets and failing to stand up for Shami.
Even BJP mp Gautam Gambhir fully supported Shami and chastised the trolls.
Apparently cricketers didn't get the memo as they were in bio bubble.

BLM targetted Gandhi in USA in UK and other places. This movement has no relevance to India or Indians, but Gandhi has.
 
Indian team had no business supporting a movement that attacks Gandhi. I hope someone brings this to the notice of the right people and BCCI is taken to task for this.

Pragya Thakur, a BJP MP calls Godse a patriot. The Hindu Mahasabha garland the picture of Godse every year on Gandhi's death anniversary. A Hindu sadhvi shoots a photo of Gandhi on his death anniversary in front of her followers, Gandhi gets abused every year by hindutvadis on his birth anniversary and the same people celebrate his death anniversary. But yeah, the BLM supporters are the problem.
 
Pragya Thakur, a BJP MP calls Godse a patriot. The Hindu Mahasabha garland the picture of Godse every year on Gandhi's death anniversary. A Hindu sadhvi shoots a photo of Gandhi on his death anniversary in front of her followers, Gandhi gets abused every year by hindutvadis on his birth anniversary and the same people celebrate his death anniversary. But yeah, the BLM supporters are the problem.

Did Indian team stand in support of these people?
 
Well I'm glad the racists are outing themselves. Racial extremists have no place in cricket. Now to get rid of the racist coach. The clean out is well underway. Lawson Naidoo is doing the lord's work.
 
Did Indian team stand in support of these people?

None of them publicly condemned that either.

Why would the BLM activists want Gandhi's statues in their country given his thoughts on blacks were pretty much similar to what Churchill thought about the Indians. Would you want a Churchill statue in India?
 
This bend the knee thing makes no difference at all. Refusing to do so does not make him a racist. It has become a meaningless exercise now.
 
I'm against mandating political gestures and think John Barnes as always makes a valid point about taking the knee being used as a substitute for deep, substantive reforms.

However de Kock not opposed to making gestures on the field - he once made a Save The Rhino gesture.

Do the lives of rhinos matter more than his black countrymen ?

That's not a great comparison at all, Markhor. Rhinos are in danger of extinction, and black people while historically oppressed, are now governing South Africa. Complaining and calling people names have to end at some point and an actual movement for real democracy, a fair economy, and promoting race relations needs to begin.
 
In my experience, I've observed that at least 90% of hindus and muslims of the subcontinent are proud right wingers. There are of course the caste and regional differences as well.

My observation has been very much the same across the border brother.
 
None of them publicly condemned that either.

Why would the BLM activists want Gandhi's statues in their country given his thoughts on blacks were pretty much similar to what Churchill thought about the Indians. Would you want a Churchill statue in India?

I cannot be forced to say spmethong on a topic i have no connection with.

Why would i want BLM support in India? Black icons like Mandela,MLK, Obama have praised gandhi many times. Picking one or two incidents out of his youth doesn't change the entire life of gandhi.

This far leftists movement has no connection to india and any support to it in India should be condemned.
 
Taking the knee needs to be a personal choice. I don't like the idea of forcing people to your ideology.
 
I cannot be forced to say spmethong on a topic i have no connection with.

Why would i want BLM support in India? Black icons like Mandela,MLK, Obama have praised gandhi many times. Picking one or two incidents out of his youth doesn't change the entire life of gandhi.

This far leftists movement has no connection to india and any support to it in India should be condemned.

How is standing up to racism is far-leftist movement?

As you have said, even Gandhi changed stopped being racist.
 
On a day when South Africa were clinical in getting their first win at the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup 2021, captain Temba Bavuma was left dealing with the fallout of teammate Quinton de Kock’s decision to opt out of the game.
Bavuma said he was “taken aback” at de Kock's decision, which he found out in the changing room just before the start of the match against West Indies in Dubai.

And while Bavuma said his teammate is still “one of the boys” the team are bracing for challenging conversations in coming days.

Although de Kock himself has not elaborated on missing the game, statements from Cricket South Africa and Bavuma make it clear the decision had to do with CSA’s directive for all players to take the knee at the start of the game.

"We as a team were surprised and taken aback by the news," Bavuma said. "Quinton is a big player for the team, not only with the bat but also the role he plays from an experience point of view. Not having that at my disposal as a captain was obviously not something I was looking forward to.

"In saying that, Quinton is an adult. He’s a man in his own shoes. We respect his decision, we respect his convictions."

Bavuma was pragmatic when quizzed about de Kock's future playing for South Africa.

"It wouldn’t be my decision whether to replace Quinton or get a substitute," said Bavuma.

"As far as we stand, Quinton is still one of the players, one of the boys. So whatever support that he needs, whatever shoulder that he requires from his teammates will be there for him.

"And if there’s a need for further conversations to be had, those will definitely happen among the guys."

The skipper clarified that the instructions from the board to take the knee – "in a united and consistent stance" as the CSA statement later put it – was taken on the morning of the game. The message was passed on to them before they got on to the bus to travel to Dubai.

"The trip was about an hour and half to two hours. In that trip I guess that’s where Quinton made his decision. I found out when we got to the changing room.

"[The timing] was probably not ideal," he added. "The good thing is we were still able to find a way to get on the field and represent our country the way we did."

Quinton is still one of the players, one of the boys. So whatever support that he needs, whatever shoulder that he requires from his teammates will be there for him. And if there’s a need for further conversations to be had, those will definitely happen among the guys.
Temba Bavuma

The timing meant the team had not had the time to discuss the matter with de Kock and clear the air, he explained.

"You've got to appreciate the fact that the instruction came this morning from the board and there wasn't a great deal of time for us to thoroughly discuss the matter. Unfortunately for us as players it was a matter of us digesting what we were told and finding a way for us to move forward.

"We have a couple of days before the next game. Those days will be tough for the group but guys who want to know his decision they will use the time to find it out a bit better."

At the start of the match, Daren Sammy, former West Indies captain, had said on commentary: "I don’t understand why it is so difficult to support this movement, if you understand what it stands for. There might be a lot of issues affecting the world, but I don’t understand why it’s so difficult."

Bavuma, however, expanded on the complexity of the issue when pressed on the directive and related discussion.

"I don't think it is as simple as taking the knee," he said. "We have to appreciate the fact that we live in a country like South Africa, that has its own past. That is diverse in its views and in the way people see things, their backgrounds, things that we support.

"As much as we are a team, we wear the same shirt, we play for the badge. But outside of that, we live our own lives and those lives are different by the very nature that we live in South Africa. For me, I’ve learnt to appreciate it a lot more, try to widen your own perspective as an individual and not expect people to see the things the way I see things.

"If there is a disagreement in terms of beliefs, that’s why we have those hard conversations."

Bavuma said although the bowlers and batters gave him plenty to celebrate, it was one of his “toughest days” as captain.

"We still had to get the job done. There was still a game of cricket for our country. And it was important that as much as everything was happening, we found a way to get into the right mental space and take it home for our country," he said. "I was just glad we were able to get into the right frame of mind as a team and played the way we played."

West Indies captain Kieron Pollard refused to speculate on the issue, but reiterated his team's commitment to taking the knee.

"It's something that we feel strongly about as a team and as a people, as well, and we will continue to do it," he said. "Each and everyone has their own opinions on it, but as I've always said, once you're educated and you understand, we will understand you doing it, but I think education sort of is the key, and we don't want anyone doing it for us in solitude or to feel sorry for us."
 
I cannot be forced to say spmethong on a topic i have no connection with.

Why would i want BLM support in India? Black icons like Mandela,MLK, Obama have praised gandhi many times. Picking one or two incidents out of his youth doesn't change the entire life of gandhi.

This far leftists movement has no connection to india and any support to it in India should be condemned.

Taking a knee for half a minute literally means that you support the notion that black lives also matter. There are not even many black people in India, not sure how they still managed to **** you off when there are barely any black people in India except the overseas students.

Why does it need connection to India. It doesn't need any special connection for a person to acknowledge that black lives also matter. I'm also not into symbolism and don't think cricketers should be needed to do it every single match, but it's hardly a deplorable act.
 
How is standing up to racism is far-leftist movement?

As you have said, even Gandhi changed stopped being racist.

This is a far leftists movement that attacked Gandhi. That ends it for me. They should not have received any support from Indian team.

BCCI should be taken to task for involving the national team in a political protest that targets Gandhi.
 
Taking a knee for half a minute literally means that you support the notion that black lives also matter. There are not even many black people in India, not sure how they still managed to **** you off when there are barely any black people in India except the overseas students.

Why does it need connection to India. It doesn't need any special connection for a person to acknowledge that black lives also matter. I'm also not into symbolism and don't think cricketers should be needed to do it every single match, but it's hardly a deplorable act.

My national team is supporting a political movement that attacks the nation's biggest icon.

If thats not deplorable, dont know what is.
 
This is a far leftists movement that attacked Gandhi. That ends it for me. They should not have received any support from Indian team.

BCCI should be taken to task for involving the national team in a political protest that targets Gandhi.

I am sure you are capable of separating standing up for racism and those who attacked Gandhi for being racist.

BCCI not standing up for racism would cause more damage than lumping those together who attacked Gandhi for being racist.

The way I see it, the Indian team was supporting those who are being anti-racist, at least that's the message i got when i saw them kneeling in support of anti-racist movement.
 
I stand with De Kock. Enough of this silly theatre that is 'taking the knee. Has such performative gestures ever changed anything in history or raised awareness on any issue ? No.
 
My national team is supporting a political movement that attacks the nation's biggest icon.

If thats not deplorable, dont know what is.

So why are you still being a hardcore supporter of BJP when their supporters and elected representatives attack our nation's biggest icon? Why doesn't it end for you then?
 
What are the discriminatory laws and rules targetting muslims?

shami faced discrimination

and when you go to places like Taj Mahel, locals are charged a separate ticket and foreigners are charged a separate one.
 
shami faced discrimination

and when you go to places like Taj Mahel, locals are charged a separate ticket and foreigners are charged a separate one.

How is this discriminatory to muslims? It's the case in many countries.
 
shami faced discrimination

and when you go to places like Taj Mahel, locals are charged a separate ticket and foreigners are charged a separate one.

What discrimination Shami faced?

Yes, Foreigners are charged more as they are not citizens. A foreigner doesn't get parity with citizens anywhere.
 
How is this discriminatory to muslims? It's the case in many countries.

I dint say that is dsicriminatory to Muslims, that is dsicriminatory to everyone who is a foreigner.

The muslim part refers to how Shami being treated or how anyone in India who supports Pakistan cricket team is hated. Ex, the school teacher that was suspended
 
So why are you still being a hardcore supporter of BJP when their supporters and elected representatives attack our nation's biggest icon? Why doesn't it end for you then?

I have thoroughly condemned BJP selecting Pragya.

Many leaders of those times disagreed with Gandhi. My hero Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose the most prominent among them. Bose went against Gandhi many times. But he didn't disrespect him.

Another leader is Ambedkar, he too wasn't very supportive of Gandhi. But he too didn't disrespect him.

So if XYZ disagrees with Gandhian principles thats ok. But attacking him isnt.
 
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What discrimination Shami faced?

Yes, Foreigners are charged more as they are not citizens. A foreigner doesn't get parity with citizens anywhere.

that is discrimination when you are charging a person a higher price based on what country he belongs to.
 
I dint say that is dsicriminatory to Muslims, that is dsicriminatory to everyone who is a foreigner.

This is common practice in most countries buddy. A foreign national cannot expect the same fee as a local living in the country. I think this is the case even for Pakistani locals visiting the Nankana sahib.

The muslim part refers to how Shami being treated or how anyone in India who supports Pakistan cricket team is hated. Ex, the school teacher that was suspended

These are not laws though. Btw I can assure you if Hindus in Pakistan openly burst fire crackers to celebrate India's victory over Pakistan, it would end in much more serious violence.
 
This is common practice in most countries buddy. A foreign national cannot expect the same fee as a local living in the country. I think this is the case even for Pakistani locals visiting the Nankana sahib.



These are not laws though. Btw I can assure you if Hindus in Pakistan openly burst fire crackers to celebrate India's victory over Pakistan, it would end in much more serious violence.

how would it end in violence? There are people in Pakistan who openly support kohli and Dhoni and the Indian team.

I dont understand why you defending discrimination by bringing Pakistan into this.

Why should a foreigner be forced to pay high ticket fees at taj mahal. That is clear discrimination.
 
I am charging him higher because he is not a citizen.

so basically you are charging someone higher based on their nationality. Which is again discrimination.

IF USA decides to charge Indians higher fees the Indians would be crying about discrimination.
 
how would it end in violence? There are people in Pakistan who openly support kohli and Dhoni and the Indian team.

So why don't these people ever openly celebrate Pakistani defeats against India then? In India, these kind of celebrations have been happening since decades. You're kidding if you think Pakistani hindus can openly celebrate an Indian victory against Pakistan. Most Hindu women in Pakistan don't even wear the bindhi in public like most hindu women do, and you're saying nobody would care if Pakistani hindus celebrated Pakistani defeats against India lol.

Why should a foreigner be forced to pay high ticket fees at taj mahal. That is clear discrimination.

This happens in many countries. A local should not be expected to pay the same price for visiting a monument in his own country that a foreigner has to do, because most locals don't have the same purchasing power that visiting foreigners from western countries have. It's the same case in Pakistan as well. Do Pakistanis pay the same 20 USD to visit the Nankana sahib too?
 
QDK has been exposed as an anti-Black racist and should never wear RSA's colours again. BLM is the context of RSA takes on extra meaning. CSA are right to demand this.
 
I find some of the messages supporting De Cock Mind boggling. Some very simple facts:

- He is a white guy from a country that imposed apartheid for over a 100 years upto the 90s. Some sensitivity towards his country's history needed to be taken into account.
- He made the decision knowing the rest of the team were going to take the stand - so at the very least, he was abandoning his team (forgetting the more serious implications)
- Bavuma is South Africa's first black captain so the decision looks even more difficult to understand.
- The most important fact - the BLM is recognosed world wide and a show of support for the minorities. If people do not understand the need for such a stance, they have no knowledge about how blacks get treated in USA. They have no appreciation of the direct racism shown towards blacks in many Eurpean countries. The cold and simple fact is : anyone who refuses to support such a motion is bigot and a racist. End of story.

Conclusion - De Cock is a racist. This is not meant to be an insult and I am not trying to be derogatory. He is a racist and it is no surprise because if people thing there are no whites in South Africa who covet the apartheid era, they are mistaken.

I hope he never plays for South Africa again.
 
In case you have not noticed, for some desis these days its considered hip or cool to follow the right wing ideology and believe in the garbage thats spewed from the RW media outlets. You will see a lot of them basically recycling the same conspiracy theories and talking points used by the likes of Tucker Carlson, Hannity, etc.

I call these kids Brown Rush Limbaughs.

Absolutely. And its baffling to see. Sadly these people are only online, thankfully never see them in real life much.
 
While we can debate the impact, significance and relevance of taking the knee, we cannot argue that it is done so for a good cause and with good intentions - the latter is a FACT.

Now, knowing this, it just boggles my mind as to why someone would flat out REFUSE to do it. Okay, you don't believe it'll make an impact... Fine...but why not still show solidarity with a group that it does mean something to? Why not participate to show that at least your intentions are aligned.

Sorry to say, but there is only one explanation for someone refusing to take the knee, losing his place in the team in a big tournament in the meantime, and that is that he actually is a racist.

I have zero respect for QDK, though never had much to begin with, and hope he is never seen in SA colors again.
 
I find some of the messages supporting De Cock Mind boggling. Some very simple facts:

- He is a white guy from a country that imposed apartheid for over a 100 years upto the 90s. Some sensitivity towards his country's history needed to be taken into account.
- He made the decision knowing the rest of the team were going to take the stand - so at the very least, he was abandoning his team (forgetting the more serious implications)
- Bavuma is South Africa's first black captain so the decision looks even more difficult to understand.
- The most important fact - the BLM is recognosed world wide and a show of support for the minorities. If people do not understand the need for such a stance, they have no knowledge about how blacks get treated in USA. They have no appreciation of the direct racism shown towards blacks in many Eurpean countries. The cold and simple fact is : anyone who refuses to support such a motion is bigot and a racist. End of story.

Conclusion - De Cock is a racist. This is not meant to be an insult and I am not trying to be derogatory. He is a racist and it is no surprise because if people thing there are no whites in South Africa who covet the apartheid era, they are mistaken.

I hope he never plays for South Africa again.

1. Why is de cock to be blamed for what happened earlier?

2. Bavuma captaincy has nothing to do with it.

3. Why should anyone be forced to support a political movement? He or she has the personal liberty to decide. This ramming down opinions isnt going to work.

Conclusion: No one can be forced to join any political movement. The need is to not be racist. Doesn't mean one starts joining political movements.
 
1. Why is de cock to be blamed for what happened earlier?

2. Bavuma captaincy has nothing to do with it.

3. Why should anyone be forced to support a political movement? He or she has the personal liberty to decide. This ramming down opinions isnt going to work.

Conclusion: No one can be forced to join any political movement. The need is to not be racist. Doesn't mean one starts joining political movements.

You can call it a political movement a hundred times in your post, it still won't make it so. You have zero credibility on the issue as you never participated, observed or read up on the movement first hand. Sitting in India, and watching Times Now and NDTV, would only teach you the bigoted ideas that you show here about BLM
 
I find some of the messages supporting De Cock Mind boggling. Some very simple facts:

- He is a white guy from a country that imposed apartheid for over a 100 years upto the 90s. Some sensitivity towards his country's history needed to be taken into account.
- He made the decision knowing the rest of the team were going to take the stand - so at the very least, he was abandoning his team (forgetting the more serious implications)
- Bavuma is South Africa's first black captain so the decision looks even more difficult to understand.
- The most important fact - the BLM is recognosed world wide and a show of support for the minorities. If people do not understand the need for such a stance, they have no knowledge about how blacks get treated in USA. They have no appreciation of the direct racism shown towards blacks in many Eurpean countries. The cold and simple fact is : anyone who refuses to support such a motion is bigot and a racist. End of story.

Conclusion - De Cock is a racist. This is not meant to be an insult and I am not trying to be derogatory. He is a racist and it is no surprise because if people thing there are no whites in South Africa who covet the apartheid era, they are mistaken.

I hope he never plays for South Africa again.

Your conclusion is funny.

Well, you have a point. But we don't know what's De Kock's ideology (if he wishes to explain).

I have travelled to South Africa, and perhaps you can watch some videos on Youtube by searching white slums in South Africa.

It should give you a hint that there are black movements in the current day South Africa, and many black people that are EQUALLY RACIST towards white. Which kinda evens out the equation.

If some whites are racists then so are some blacks.
 
Your conclusion is funny.

Well, you have a point. But we don't know what's De Kock's ideology (if he wishes to explain).

I have travelled to South Africa, and perhaps you can watch some videos on Youtube by searching white slums in South Africa.

It should give you a hint that there are black movements in the current day South Africa, and many black people that are EQUALLY RACIST towards white. Which kinda evens out the equation.

If some whites are racists then so are some blacks.

Typically I'm very much in sync with your posts but not this time

So you are countering what he said with an arguument based on whataboutism?

Many racists in the US, when explained the ideology behind BLM, start talking about black vs black crimes... Or police officers that get murdered by blacks... It's like they'll talk about anything but not look at the cold hard facts
 
Typically I'm very much in sync with your posts but not this time

So you are countering what he said with an arguument based on whataboutism?

Many racists in the US, when explained the ideology behind BLM, start talking about black vs black crimes... Or police officers that get murdered by blacks... It's like they'll talk about anything but not look at the cold hard facts

I think it's more of a freedom of choice.
It's not mandatory to take the knee is it? I don't know.

If he doesn't want it, then he doesn't want it.

The world is not free of racists. There are racists in every country and in every group.
I would've had an approval issue with De Kock if he had done or said something unfair against the blacks. race.
 
You can call it a political movement a hundred times in your post, it still won't make it so. You have zero credibility on the issue as you never participated, observed or read up on the movement first hand. Sitting in India, and watching Times Now and NDTV, would only teach you the bigoted ideas that you show here about BLM

It is a political movement of the leftists, nothing else.

Why should i participate a movement that has nothing to do with me or my country or anything i am closely associated with. I dont support racism, but doesn't mean i would go around waving flags for it. FYI, All lives matter.

Sitting in India i have the liberty to decide if i want to protest or not protest or support or not support an idea or movement. And no one will take away my livelihood for that.
 
BLM is a communist and racist movement trying to segregrate instead of unite people.

Naive and ignorant people have fallen for this racist movement because you have the sold out media and SOLD OUT celeberties promoting **.

As Mamoon posted above CSA is racist towards white people.
So is the BLM movement.

As Sammy said this match "when you stand for nothing, you fall for anything". It was well said because the media, celeberties and these first world people usually stand for nothing useful.
Now they have fallen for anything. Lol

Not to turn this into a sociopolitical debate, You can’t be racist against white people. Racially prejudiced maybe but definitely not racist.
 
I saw a couple of pictures on Twitter

A few of the white SA players did not take the knee and were standing with their fists raised

Nortje in both pictures just had his hands behind his back. I don’t think CSA’s stance is as strict as it’s being made out to be, otherwise why is Nortje allowed to do what he is doing?
 
I think with any country apart from SA, I would have said that the decision to take the knee or not to take the knee isn’t a big deal as it’s a personal choice. The danger in SA however is that, because of their history, someone who chooses not to take the knee could give the impression that they are racist.

If you’re in a position of power and influence, as international cricketers are, you have to be conscious of how your conduct could be perceived and sometimes that means swallowing your pride and doing something you otherwise wouldn’t have chosen to do. In that context, de Kock’s decision not to take the knee and actively seek war with his cricket board is baffling.
 
I think it's more of a freedom of choice.
It's not mandatory to take the knee is it? I don't know.

If he doesn't want it, then he doesn't want it.

The world is not free of racists. There are racists in every country and in every group.
I would've had an approval issue with De Kock if he had done or said something unfair against the blacks. race.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have a choice - absolutely not. But the fact that he chose to exercise that choice, when his teammates are standing for a good cause, and was okay with the severe repercussions of getting dropped from the team...just doesn't sit right and confirms his racist mentality.

Tomorrow if my organization protests against the treatment of minorities In Pakistan, the only reason I would refuse to participate is if I don't have any sympathies for the minorities. QDK even has black teammates and to still take a stand against the gesture is just so abrasive.
 
I'm not saying he shouldn't have a choice - absolutely not. But the fact that he chose to exercise that choice, when his teammates are standing for a good cause, and was okay with the severe repercussions of getting dropped from the team...just doesn't sit right and confirms his racist mentality.

Tomorrow if my organization protests against the treatment of minorities In Pakistan, the only reason I would refuse to participate is if I don't have any sympathies for the minorities. QDK even has black teammates and to still take a stand against the gesture is just so abrasive.


There is another angle to it.
What if he remains a racist deep inside, and does things out of racial prejudice BUT for the sake of a cover up, he takes the knee?

I think this would make him an even more dangerous and potential more severe of a hypocrite together with being a racist.

So I think, in a sense he is bravely exposing himself and letting the world know who he is. Many won't.
 
so basically you are charging someone higher based on their nationality. Which is again discrimination.

IF USA decides to charge Indians higher fees the Indians would be crying about discrimination.

What are you onto? American/Australian/other foreign universities do charge foreign students more.
Here in Australia the MBA Fee is almost double for a foreign passport holder and non permanent resident.
They want to use that money to subsidise local student fees.
In case of India it is done to subsidise the local population eg I can visit Ajanta caves for INR 25 whereas foreign passport holder pays 250INR.
Many countries do this to get money from tourism.
That is not racist.
 
It is a political movement of the leftists, nothing else.

Why should i participate a movement that has nothing to do with me or my country or anything i am closely associated with. I dont support racism, but doesn't mean i would go around waving flags for it. FYI, All lives matter.

Sitting in India i have the liberty to decide if i want to protest or not protest or support or not support an idea or movement. And no one will take away my livelihood for that.

Dude here is a top just stop

The kneeling is not to support the American political BLM movement as you call it. It’s to stand up against racism. Get a grip man
 
Nobody should ever, under any circumstances, be forced to make symbolic gestures. Taking a knee has nothing to do with being a racist. This is basic freedom and liberty, which marxists don't care about.

I don't care the reasons behind De Kock's actions, nobody should ever be forced to make a political/religious/cultural gesture. He is a cricketer, not a politician.

CSA is a disgrace.
 
Nobody should ever, under any circumstances, be forced to make symbolic gestures. Taking a knee has nothing to do with being a racist. This is basic freedom and liberty, which marxists don't care about.

I don't care the reasons behind De Kock's actions, nobody should ever be forced to make a political/religious/cultural gesture. He is a cricketer, not a politician.

CSA is a disgrace.

No racist should be allowed to play cricket

He should clarify why he didn’t follow his team mates. Otherwise bye bye career
 
QDK has shown more spine than the entire BCCI and Indian team. Apparently money cant buy spine.
 
Dude here is a top just stop

The kneeling is not to support the American political BLM movement as you call it. It’s to stand up against racism. Get a grip man

I haven't followed Pakistan's take on this. But why don't Pakistan do it. It was quite obvious the other day where Rohit asked Babar and he clearly made a gesture with his hands that they were not going to kneel. Is there a religious angle to not kneeling?

Personally, I think India should take the knee only if they publicly state that it is against the caste system. Casual comments like Yuvraj about Chahal shows the basic thinking that still exists among world-exposed sportsmen. I don't think Yuvraj was being malicious but it's a kind of low-level bullying that is often dismissed as banter but can be hurtful to the person at the receiving end. Everyone who is not lower caste has indulged in this in school or college, where you think casual jokes about a person's colour or caste is fine.
 
I haven't followed Pakistan's take on this. But why don't Pakistan do it. It was quite obvious the other day where Rohit asked Babar and he clearly made a gesture with his hands that they were not going to kneel. Is there a religious angle to not kneeling?

Personally, I think India should take the knee only if they publicly state that it is against the caste system. Casual comments like Yuvraj about Chahal shows the basic thinking that still exists among world-exposed sportsmen. I don't think Yuvraj was being malicious but it's a kind of low-level bullying that is often dismissed as banter but can be hurtful to the person at the receiving end. Everyone who is not lower caste has indulged in this in school or college, where you think casual jokes about a person's colour or caste is fine.

The Indian team kneeling was far more embarrassing for me to watch than the entire defeat itself.

I mean these guys talk about how they're proud brahmins, rajputs, and so on, don't utter a peep about the demonisation of minorities happening in our country, but latch on to a cause started by Kaepernick & co taking on the power structures within America. I cringed when I saw that and hopefully they don't do it. In fact, any subcontinent team doing so is embarrassing given the state of minorities in their respective countries.
 
I'm not saying he shouldn't have a choice - absolutely not. But the fact that he chose to exercise that choice, when his teammates are standing for a good cause, and was okay with the severe repercussions of getting dropped from the team...just doesn't sit right and confirms his racist mentality.

Tomorrow if my organization protests against the treatment of minorities In Pakistan, the only reason I would refuse to participate is if I don't have any sympathies for the minorities. QDK even has black teammates and to still take a stand against the gesture is just so abrasive.

Oh there are plenty of people in both of our countries who would be like "why only minority lives matter? All lives matter!" and oppose any such movement in support of minorities in our countries.
 
The Indian team kneeling was far more embarrassing for me to watch than the entire defeat itself.

I mean these guys talk about how they're proud brahmins, rajputs, and so on, don't utter a peep about the demonisation of minorities happening in our country, but latch on to a cause started by Kaepernick & co taking on the power structures within America. I cringed when I saw that and hopefully they don't do it. In fact, any subcontinent team doing so is embarrassing given the state of minorities in their respective countries.

In the post match press conference, Virat quite curtly said that it was a directive from the team management. The way he said it, I'm not sure if he was totally for it. I can imagine someone like KL Rahul being very keen, because he seems a little dumb :ashwin

I don't think they can publicly talk about anti-minority sentiments as it would leave their Muslim players in an awkward situation they probably don't want to be in. Caste system seems a more appropriate and equivalent concept to take a stand against. But that's not happening either.
 
No racist should be allowed to play cricket

ha!
So the method to know if a white cricketer is a racist or not is to see if takes the knee or not?

Do you truly believe that none of those knee taking cricketers are racist in any sense?
You would be surprised to know how hypocrites guise under organized racial prejudice.


He should clarify why he didn’t follow his team mates. Otherwise bye bye career

I would rather applaud his gesture of not taking the knee to prove that he is not a hypocrite in this matter. Requires spine and bravery.

This does not mean I advocate for racists or racism. He had a choice and he bravely made it clear.

Whether he is a racist? Is Sarfaraz racist? What do you think?
 
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Oh there are plenty of people in both of our countries who would be like "why only minority lives matter? All lives matter!" and oppose any such movement in support of minorities in our countries.

Are blacks a minority in Africa or South Africa?
If anything when we go by your logic, blacks should take a knee because whites are the minority in Africa and South Africa and in Caribbean.
 
Are blacks a minority in Africa or South Africa?
If anything when we go by your logic, blacks should take a knee because whites are the minority in Africa and South Africa and in Caribbean.

I'm trying to imagine an equivalent scenario in my head when Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims had an apartheid like system discriminating against the majorities post independence of our two countries, and failing badly at that.
 
I'm trying to imagine an equivalent scenario in my head when Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims had an apartheid like system discriminating against the majorities post independence of our two countries, and failing badly at that.

Perhaps they would’ve taken a knee and succeeded?
 
Oh there are plenty of people in both of our countries who would be like "why only minority lives matter? All lives matter!" and oppose any such movement in support of minorities in our countries.

Which is why "All lives matter" is one of the most idiotic responses to BLM
 
South Africa wicket-keeper batsman Quinton de Kock's refusal to be a part of the team over the Black Lives Matter (BLM) gesture has left many in the cricketing spectrum infuriated. While De Kock opted out of the team for the match against West Indies over his unwillingness to take a knee, ex-Zimbabwe cricketer Pommie Mbangwa was one of those who reacted angrily.

While South Africa skipper Temba Bavuma didn't reveal the reason behind De Kock dropping himself from the squad, rumours of the stumper doing so over his stand against taking the knee went afloat on social media. Bavuma later confirmed the same too but as the news went viral, Mbangwa, who was on-air as a commentator for the match, was left bemused with the development.

“Excuse me for being political, but I cannot shed my skin. I hope that the discussion at the very least is about how to be united about something that everybody agrees on... also in the hope that there is agreement."

Mbangwa wasn't the only one to react in this manner. Even former West Indies skipper Darren Sammy joined him in saying: "Sometimes I don't understand: why is it so difficult to support this movement if you understand what it stands for."

It has also been learned that De Kock had not taken a knee in South Africa's first match against Australia either. He, in fact, wasn't the only one. Even pace bowler Anrich Nortje had decided against doing so.

After Tuesday's incident, Cricket South Africa (CSA) released a statement highlighting it was imperative for the entire team to stand united on the subject, especially considering the history of the nation.

"Concerns were raised that the different postures taken by team members in support of the BLM initiative created an unintended perception of disparity or lack of support for the initiative. After considering all relevant issues, including the position of the players, the Board felt that it was imperative for the team to be seen taking a united and consistent stand against racism, especially given SA's history," the statement read.

As for De Kock, he hasn't yet issued a clarification on the subject. His future in the team is also up for debate because of his stance. Whether De Kock will join the trend to be included in the team or will maintain his stance and continue being sidelined, remains to be seen.

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports...a-slams-quinton-de-kock-over-blm-stand/826941
 
Not to turn this into a sociopolitical debate, You can’t be racist against white people. Racially prejudiced maybe but definitely not racist.

Yes, you can be racist against white people no matter the definition of the day. Our courts have ruled so multiple times. We are a minority in South Africa.
 
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