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Quinton de Kock opts out of match against the West Indies after refusing to take knee

Should cricket boards make players take knee?


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Leftist* im pretty immersed. Bringing in quotas i.e. getting rid of the MERIT based system. Especially based on color is racist towards the player who deserve to get selexted but dont because they are white..

Literally trying to defeat racism with racism.. lets segregrate the society even more..

Please define Systemic Racism, what is your understanding of "Systemic racism", how it had impacted the African American or benefit the African American.

You have mentioned many talking points of far-right-wing media but you haven't explained your understanding of 'systemic racism', this will help others to understand your thought process and your talking points.
 
Keep taking it.. literally only a small percentage of people are getting a lot of media attention. Its a dying stance.

You think the world is black and white but its grey neither good nor bad.

Utopias dont exist and will never exist, same with equality. There will always be the rich and the poor, the oppressed vs the oppressor.. even if humanity had a golden age someone somewhere will be getting shafted..

You are just delusional.... im realistic.

which is all true, but the question is, what have you and me and all of us, done about it? Did we play your part (however small it might be) in an effort to improve the situation? I think that's what all matters.
 
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Yes, you can be racist against white people no matter the definition of the day. Our courts have ruled so multiple times. We are a minority in South Africa.

You literally cannot. Why do you think SA has a quota system that applies only for black people despite them being the majority? Because racism includes a systemic social structure factor. It’s not just a numbers game. White people are the dominant force in South Africa—a country with a very notorious history in recent past. You’d also be hard pressed to blindly believe a court system (when it comes to the definition) that is still heavily influenced and funded by white people.

But this is a long debate that we’ll only agree to disagree so let’s leave it at that.
 
You literally cannot. Why do you think SA has a quota system that applies only for black people despite them being the majority? Because racism includes a systemic social structure factor. It’s not just a numbers game. White people are the dominant force in South Africa—a country with a very notorious history in recent past. You’d also be hard pressed to blindly believe a court system (when it comes to the definition) that is still heavily influenced and funded by white people.

But this is a long debate that we’ll only agree to disagree so let’s leave it at that.

Nah, you're just wrong. Every institution and every power structure is black. By your very definition you can be racist to white people in South Africa, our courts agree. From the removal of Afrikaans at universities, to the refusing covid support to white businesses. The courts have ruled in our favour every time. I think I will follow the law rather than some popular corporate hogwash.
 
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Yes yes and all that. But the gesture has a purpose. To highlight the issues white people don't want to talk about. They would rather we become mired in talking about the issues but now black people are saying enough. Listen to us and talk about us. Enough of the oppression. The gesture is the start. But you need a start.

It's been over a year and everyone is still taking the knee. The point has been made about solidarity with the blacks all over the world. Those who don't believe in it wouldn't have made the gesture. Now they just need to let it go and start working on the betterment. A 5 second gesture won't do anything. What's the use of doing it for a 1.5 years straight.
 
Instead of taking a knee, pak players put their hands on their hearts, including Sarfaraz.

Is Sarfaraz now, not a racist? Does he get the clean chit?
 
Instead of taking a knee, pak players put their hands on their hearts, including Sarfaraz.

Is Sarfaraz now, not a racist? Does he get the clean chit?

Was he ever a racist? He made one ignorant comment that had no racial undertones but used words that when translated into English have racial connotations for westerners.

Sarfraz or indeed any other Pakistani or Indian have no real skin in the game when it comes to Black Lives Matter because their countries do not oppress black people. Yet, they still show some basic respect and decency by acknowledging the movement because it means a lot to their opponents and in some instances their franchise team mates.

If QDK can't stick by his black mates and captain then it says a lot about his character....
 
Please define Systemic Racism, what is your understanding of "Systemic racism", how it had impacted the African American or benefit the African American.

You have mentioned many talking points of far-right-wing media but you haven't explained your understanding of 'systemic racism', this will help others to understand your thought process and your talking points.

Where the system created is specifically undermining one race while promoting the other..

Which is not happening.. like i pointed out afircan immigrants are one of the most successful people in america, they are black, shy are they not facing the same issues..

It has to do with culture and family dynamics.
African americans have terrible family values and dynamics with a 70% divorce rate among parents who are both black...
Plus a weak culture where there is no father figure majority of the time.

While african immigrants have strong family values and a culture of hardwork. Nigerians especially. They are thriving..
 
Instead of taking a knee, pak players put their hands on their hearts, including Sarfaraz.

Is Sarfaraz now, not a racist? Does he get the clean chit?

No! and for anyone to ask this question has not understood the concept of racism nor how systemic racism impacts the lives of black Americans.

I do not much about SA, nor do I want to speculate but SA had a strong history with black racism until the early 1990s.

I guess it is QDQ way of protesting something he believes in but he has to verbalize it and until he does that people will speculate his reasons.
 
Where the system created is specifically undermining one race while promoting the other..

Which is not happening.. like i pointed out afircan immigrants are one of the most successful people in america, they are black, shy are they not facing the same issues..

It has to do with culture and family dynamics.
African americans have terrible family values and dynamics with a 70% divorce rate among parents who are both black...
Plus a weak culture where there is no father figure majority of the time.

While african immigrants have strong family values and a culture of hardwork. Nigerians especially. They are thriving..

Yea! you lack the understanding of systemic racism on American-born black Americans and its impact over the years on the black community, their struggle, and their upbringing.

What gives away is that you keep repeating the talking point of your comparison of Nigerian-born Americans with American-born black Americans.

Maybe try to engage yourself with someone who can explain to you so you can better understand what systemic racism is and how it still impacts the American-born black Americans but for that, you have to accept it still happening.
 
Was he ever a racist? He made one ignorant comment that had no racial undertones but used words that when translated into English have racial connotations for westerners.

Sarfraz or indeed any other Pakistani or Indian have no real skin in the game when it comes to Black Lives Matter because their countries do not oppress black people. Yet, they still show some basic respect and decency by acknowledging the movement because it means a lot to their opponents and in some instances their franchise team mates.

If QDK can't stick by his black mates and captain then it says a lot about his character....

Indians are not racists against black people?
watch a couple of youtube videos about African students in India.

But are we saying that if a person takes a knee, (whether Sarfaraz or whoever), he is trusted and deemed to be not a racist?

And are you saying, taking a knee is in support of BLM movement in USA?
 
Your questions take massive fallacious leaps. "So what you're trying to say is <insert white people are evil>."

No. I mean what I typed, not your loaded phrases that imply I'm a racist. Why do you make such assumptions about white people? Are you a racist? Afrikaans people are very religious, asking them to kneel is not just a simple gesture. I've been coming here a number of years, when I could just as easily hang out with my fellow "privileged white racists", why would I do that? I'm sure your brainwashed, demented mind could come up with some buzzwords.

I hope QdK sues them. They are violating a large number of his human rights, and liberties. I'm sure the lawyers are all licking their lips.

You cleverly avoided my questions. Your also being awfully defensive. But please go back and answer my questions. Just because you defeated the zulus who inhabited the land while your ancestors arrived from Europe does that then give ghe Victor's the right o impose apartheid on the original inhabitants of the land?

If your religious how do you explain apartheid?

Finally don't assume anything about me. One thing I'll be very clear about and others can testify to this, I say it how it is and if you don't like it well that's unfortunate.

With regards to taking the knee if he is not doing so for religious reasons like many Pakistanis then he should be open about it and come out and say so. If however he is not taking it because he is aggrieved at the treatment of his people by the majority in his country he should come out and say that too.

For you to trivialis apartheid as you did in the post above and then your clear defensive deflections in your subsequent post clearly show you are on thin ice with this one.

Your boer history and your glorious God given right after battle do not justify apartheid and the dispossession mistreatment and utter unpeopling of the native populace. Your posts above come across as you apologising for this inhumane behaviour.
 
It's been over a year and everyone is still taking the knee. The point has been made about solidarity with the blacks all over the world. Those who don't believe in it wouldn't have made the gesture. Now they just need to let it go and start working on the betterment. A 5 second gesture won't do anything. What's the use of doing it for a 1.5 years straight.

Just a year? Did you watch the England vs Hungary game in the football..it should be indefinite..enough..they need to be reminded constantly of their behaviour..and I'm talking about racists so that change can come..
 
Indians are not racists against black people?
watch a couple of youtube videos about African students in India.

There is no widespread systemic racism against black people in the subcontinent. Petty name calling (while deplorable) is not what the movement is about.

Countries like the USA, France, Belgium, UK and South Africa have a murderous history against black people and some people believe they are still institutionally racist against them. To its proponents, taking the knee raises awareness of that history and its cultural baggage. The subcontinent may have its issues but widespread historical discrimination against blacks isn't one of them.

But are we saying that if a person takes a knee, (whether Sarfaraz or whoever), he is trusted and deemed to be not a racist?

No. Ultimately a gesture doesn't tell what someone is feeling on the inside...but it gives a good indication.

And are you saying, taking a knee is in support of BLM movement in USA?

no,
 
Where the system created is specifically undermining one race while promoting the other..

Which is not happening.. like i pointed out afircan immigrants are one of the most successful people in america, they are black, shy are they not facing the same issues..

It has to do with culture and family dynamics.
African americans have terrible family values and dynamics with a 70% divorce rate among parents who are both black...
Plus a weak culture where there is no father figure majority of the time.

While african immigrants have strong family values and a culture of hardwork. Nigerians especially. They are thriving..

In punjab we say to choatay like you " oh chup kur kay Bay jaa Arram naal. Na agay da puttay hay na pichay da"
 
Conclusion - De Cock is a racist.

I dont/wont take knees for anything other than Allah, does that mean I'm racist? So he may have his reasons to not take knees, that doesn't make him racist.. Honestly I believe everyone little bit racist at least..
 
Given SA history, it is a tricky situation for Quinton. Having said that, forcing players to do this as a condition to play is pathetic.
 
I dont/wont take knees for anything other than Allah, does that mean I'm racist? So he may have his reasons to not take knees, that doesn't make him racist.. Honestly I believe everyone little bit racist at least..

In the eyes of some people here, yes you are because taking a knee seems to be the only way one can prove not to be a racist. And when you take a knee, you become an angel.
 
I am just surprised that QDK thought his personal stand was more important than winning a game for his country. If I was a SA selector I would think twice before picking him again.
 
I dont/wont take knees for anything other than Allah, does that mean I'm racist? So he may have his reasons to not take knees, that doesn't make him racist.. Honestly I believe everyone little bit racist at least..

No! because you have verbalized why wouldn't you take the knee.

Pakistani players placed their hands over their chest to show solidarity.

We have to wait and see what was his reason not to join his teammate to play for his country - we have to wait for his explanation and if he doesn't say anything that anyone can speculate the reason.
 
Just a year? Did you watch the England vs Hungary game in the football..it should be indefinite..enough..they need to be reminded constantly of their behaviour..and I'm talking about racists so that change can come..

Not a football fan. But I do know people of color do get a lot of abuse and racism is a big big problem. But then again, a gesture is never going to counter it. Instead practical measures, education and public awareness should be created to tackle it. Even if a person's heart won't change but I am sure imposing a fine or a punishment in a case of racial abuse or harassment that can be verified by a witness is more likely to make the offender think twice before doing it again than seeing a person taking a knee.
 
Not a football fan. But I do know people of color do get a lot of abuse and racism is a big big problem. But then again, a gesture is never going to counter it. Instead practical measures, education and public awareness should be created to tackle it. Even if a person's heart won't change but I am sure imposing a fine or a punishment in a case of racial abuse or harassment that can be verified by a witness is more likely to make the offender think twice before doing it again than seeing a person taking a knee.

If one child asks their parent why they are taking the knee then that's job done
 
I am just surprised that QDK thought his personal stand was more important than winning a game for his country. If I was a SA selector I would think twice before picking him again.

That's exactly how I feel.

We can debate all day long as to whether something like should be mandated, whether it's political or whatever. The thing I can't get my head around is why he felt he had to let his teammates down in a world cup game?

Take the knee and then come out later with why he believes it's wrong.
 
I am just surprised that QDK thought his personal stand was more important than winning a game for his country. If I was a SA selector I would think twice before picking him again.

its always fraught to speak on someone elses behalf, but its obvious to me, given how many white south africans have left SA, the country and the cricket setup, that for white south africans the country and cricket team mean something different to the guys who grew up in an earlier era.

just look at social media and im not aware of too many white south african players calling him out for it, im pretty sure a lot support him. again, its pbly not my place to make this assertion, but if i was a white south african BLM as a political symbol could be very problematic.

but its his right to take the knee or not at the end of the day.
 
The bit about having no problem discussing his promotion of rhino conservation and the stickers he has on his bat really made me feel uneasy.

The more I read into this the more I feel really negative vibes from QDK's stance.
 
It's one thing if you think taking the knee is pointless and does not help fight against racism and discrimination, which many people do feel.

However, it's a different thing if you're so against taking a 10-second anti-racism knee that you'll abandon your country's cricket team that's relying on you in the middle of a World Cup, a country that has just had a cricketing racism scandal and a problematic recent past with racism.

People make it sound like taking a 10-second knee at the start of a match, that all organisers are saying is to stand in solidarity against racism and discrimination worldwide, is the equivalent of committing your allegiance to the Communist black-supremacy manifesto.

Again, it's not right to force anyone to do anything, and it's his choice, but it's strange to be so against it that you'd do this. Would be interesting to hear his reasons.
 
Its his choice. He should not be forced to do something he does not believe in

If anything this is a racist attitude by cricket South Africa
 
It's one thing if you think taking the knee is pointless and does not help fight against racism and discrimination, which many people do feel.

However, it's a different thing if you're so against taking a 10-second anti-racism knee that you'll abandon your country's cricket team that's relying on you in the middle of a World Cup, a country that has just had a cricketing racism scandal and a problematic recent past with racism.

People make it sound like taking a 10-second knee at the start of a match, that all organisers are saying is to stand in solidarity against racism and discrimination worldwide, is the equivalent of committing your allegiance to the Communist black-supremacy manifesto.

Again, it's not right to force anyone to do anything, and it's his choice, but it's strange to be so against it that you'd do this. Would be interesting to hear his reasons.

Exactly. Dont understand why he had to outright refuse taking a knee & antogonize his Native african teammates. Might be his is just a principle based approach (nobody can tell me what to do) or he is fed up of internal politics & quota based policies of CSA or maybe he has no sympathies for the BLM movement or even he is outright racist, but in all these cases CSA at an organizational level has no job mixing up sport & socio-political statements & forcing it down the throats of the cricketers.

And all this in the middle of the WC - both sides (Qdk & CSA) come across as incredibly stupid.
 
No racist should be allowed to play cricket

He should clarify why he didn’t follow his team mates. Otherwise bye bye career

He doesn't have to clarify anything. Symbolic gestures, whether it be political/religious/cultural, should never be forced. It doesn't matter whether he is a racist, not that taking knee has anything to do with it. If there is an actual evidence of him being explicitly racist, then he can be punished. If you need to cure implicit racial bias, teach it at school.
 
Cricket South Africa chairman Lawson Naidoo says Quinton de Kock is unlikely to face punishment for his refusal to take a knee before matches.

De Kock made himself unavailable for South Africa's second T20 World Cup game against the West Indies after the CSA board mandated the anti-racism gesture for its players and management at the tournament.

Before South Africa's first match against Australia some players took a knee, while others stood with a raised fist or with their arms simply behind their back.

Speaking on The Ticket, Naidoo said the board had given the playing group time to agree on a unified gesture, but when no consensus had been reached felt obliged to step in.

"The team is committed to an anti-racist agenda and to combating racism. The problem comes about as a result of how that is depicted, in the terms of the different gestures that have been adopted," Naidoo said.

"[The lack of unity] sends a lukewarm, watered-down impression of that commitment and it leads to a questioning of that commitment.

"And we thought it was important — going off the basis of what the players tell us, that there have been these discussions — if such a commitment exists, the simplest thing to do to demonstrate that powerfully is to do what the rest of the world is doing and take a knee before the game.

"That's the simple issue. It's about a principled, moral issue of saying, 'we stand against racism'."

Naidoo said he was caught by surprise when de Kock made clear he would not comply with the directive, as he was not expecting any blow-back from the playing group.

But he reiterated he hoped there would be no additional punishment required for de Kock.

"No, we certainly hope not," he said.

"This is not about threatening players or imposing sanctions or penalties against them. This was a well-considered decision of the board — a unanimous decision of the board, I might add — that this is the right thing to do.

"We had no indication there would be any repercussions to the decision that we took.

"We expected the decision would be respected, indeed as it was by all of the other players in the team and the full management complement that is with the team in the UAE.

"After Quinton de Kock had made himself unavailable, the rest of the squad duly took the knee ahead of the West Indies game, and that's what we expected."

Naidoo said that South Africa's history made a strong anti-racism stance even more important, but stressed the work the squad had done in recent years to combat racism in the country, and said no player could be considered a racist.

"Let me start by saying I don't believe any member of the South African squad or management team is racist in any way," he said.

Quinton De Kock's move has drawn widespread criticism, but he has received an offer of support from his captain.

I think the team has worked extremely hard in recent years in particular to confront the issues that face us in South Africa, which are the same issues that confront people globally. So don't think there's any hint of racism behind any of the concerns that have been raised.

"Other teams at the World Cup including Australia, England, New Zealand, India and the West Indies, who uniformly take the knee and make very little quibble about it, explain it very simply as their contribution to raising awareness to the fight against racism globally.

"And we felt given South Africa's particular history of Apartheid and institutionalised racial discrimination, it was important that a team that represents South Africa sends out an equally strong signal.

"So in the absence of the team coming to that conclusion on their own, we felt it was incumbent upon the board to take the lead on this matter

De Kock is yet to explain his decision, though South Africa's T20 captain Temba Bavuma says the "respects his decision".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10...ricket-south-africa-taking-the-knee/100574984
 
The guy is there to play freaking cricket, and that too under a black captain and alongside fellow black players, against whom, we never saw him showing any remorse.

How hard is it to understand?

Let him play!
 
Not to turn this into a sociopolitical debate, You can’t be racist against white people. Racially prejudiced maybe but definitely not racist.

You can be racist against white people in a majority black or brown nation.
 
Has Pakistan ever done this knee thing?

Was watching back the match and when Rohit Sharma asked Babar Azam about it, Babar made a sign with his hand suggesting No. Then the cameras cut to Shaheen who seemed to be asking someone whether they're doing 'hand on heart' or the 'knee'.

Is there some religious significance to not going down on your knees. And if players from both sides seem confused and unaware what they're supposed to be doing, is there any point to continuing with this, other than for the visuals.
 
The below statement is by Quinton de Kock.


I would like to start by saying sorry to my teammates, and the fans back home.

I never ever wanted to make this a Quinton issue. I understand the importance of standing against racism, and I also understand the responsibility of us as players to set an example.

If me taking a knee helps to educate others, and makes the lives of others better, I am more than happy to do so.

I did not, in any way, mean to disrespect anyone by not playing against West Indies, especially the West Indian team themselves.
Maybe some people don't understand that we were just hit with this on Tuesday morning, on the way to a game.

I am deeply sorry for all the hurt, confusion and anger that I have caused.

I was quiet on this very important issue until now. But I feel I have to explain myself a little bit.

For those who don't know, I come from a mixed race family. My half-sisters are Coloured and my step mom is Black. For me, Black lives have mattered since I was born. Not just because there was an international movement.

The rights and equality of all people is more important than any individual.

I was raised to understand that we all have rights, and they are important.

I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told.

Since our chat with the board last night, which was very emotional, I think we all have a better understanding of their intentions as well. I wish this had happened sooner, because what happened on match day could have been avoided.

I know I have an example to set. We were previously told we had the choice to do what we felt we wanted to do.

I chose to keep my thoughts to myself, and thought of the pride of playing for my family and my country.

I didn't understand why I had to prove it with a gesture, when I live and learn and love people from all walks of life every day. When you are told what to do, with no discussion, I felt like it takes away the meaning. If I was racist, I could easily have taken the knee and lied, which is wrong and doesn’t build a better society.

Those who have grown up with me and played with me, know what type of person I am.

I've been called a lot of things as a cricketer. Doff. Stupid. Selfish. Immature. But those didn't hurt. Being called a racist because of a misunderstanding hurts me deeply.

It hurts my family. It hurts my pregnant wife.

I am not a racist. In my heart of hearts, I know that. And I think those who know me know that.

I know I'm not great with words, but I've tried my best to explain how truly sorry I am for making like this is about me.
It is not.

I won't lie, I was shocked that we were told on the way to an important match that there was an instruction that we had to follow, with a perceived “or else.” I don't think I was the only one.

We had camps. We had sessions. We had zoom meetings. We know where we all stand. And that is together.

I love every one of my teammates, and I love nothing more than playing cricket for South Africa.

I think it would of been better for everyone concerned if we had sorted this out before the tournament started.

Then we could have focused on our job, to win cricket matches for our country.

There always seems to be a drama when we go to World Cups. That isn't fair.

I just want to thank my teammates for their support, especially my captain, Temba. People might not recognise, but he is a flipping amazing leader.

If he and the team, and South Africa, will have me, I would love nothing more than to play cricket for my country again.
 
Has Pakistan ever done this knee thing?

Was watching back the match and when Rohit Sharma asked Babar Azam about it, Babar made a sign with his hand suggesting No. Then the cameras cut to Shaheen who seemed to be asking someone whether they're doing 'hand on heart' or the 'knee'.

No, because they're not jobless and focus their energies on actually winning the game.
 
Good stuff from from de Kock. Admitted his mistake and put an end to the needless controversy.

Boards shouldn't be forcing players to take the knee every game. But at the same time there is nothing wrong with showing your solidarity for a movement that opposes racism in all its forms once. One can also understand how a South African player (who isn't black) not taking the knee and then not playing the match can be seen as problematic.
 
Good statement from QDK. Time to draw a line under this one and for everyone to move on.
 
Not really sure what to make of this....he did not take the knee because it was so last minute, yet 11 other South African players thought it was ok.

To that end, what of the last year and a half when CSA decided the directive was for players to either "take a knee, raise a fist or stand to attention"...why did he not do any of these? I distinctly remember matches where he stood, hands on hips chewing gum and trying to look as nonchalant as possible.

And what's this about a mixed race family? Is his step mother Indian? Because she certainly is not black African.

I don't want to hate on the guy, which is quite easy given the last two years of his career, his whinging while captain and how his whinging on BLM, but why did he refuse to take a knee yet is willing to make political statements such as a rhino conservation sticker on his bat last year?

QDK does not sit well with me and Temba needs to take a stand now, not whinge about it 10 years down the line during yet another "reconciliation and justice" hearing.
 
Not really sure what to make of this....he did not take the knee because it was so last minute, yet 11 other South African players thought it was ok.

To that end, what of the last year and a half when CSA decided the directive was for players to either "take a knee, raise a fist or stand to attention"...why did he not do any of these? I distinctly remember matches where he stood, hands on hips chewing gum and trying to look as nonchalant as possible.

And what's this about a mixed race family? Is his step mother Indian? Because she certainly is not black African.

I don't want to hate on the guy, which is quite easy given the last two years of his career, his whinging while captain and how his whinging on BLM, but why did he refuse to take a knee yet is willing to make political statements such as a rhino conservation sticker on his bat last year?

QDK does not sit well with me and Temba needs to take a stand now, not whinge about it 10 years down the line during yet another "reconciliation and justice" hearing.

Well said. It's just damage limitation from him now because of the backlash. And the fact he may not play for South Africa. I'm sure plenty of his black teammates will have felt let down let alone the windies. I mean the optics have been terrible. It's also interesting to see how these things work out. Black people are seen as guilty until proven innocent from BLM to petty crime. I mean these poor people can't even show a basic non violent protest to the world without white people moaning about their freedoms being hurt. But when a white south African does something idiotic like this that raises the spectre of apartheid its all "I'm not racist gov I have a black family and friends"..please mummy look their all ganging up on me..

Who you are really comes to the fore in the first instant. His initial reaction showed us his character.
 
Not really sure what to make of this....he did not take the knee because it was so last minute, yet 11 other South African players thought it was ok.

To that end, what of the last year and a half when CSA decided the directive was for players to either "take a knee, raise a fist or stand to attention"...why did he not do any of these? I distinctly remember matches where he stood, hands on hips chewing gum and trying to look as nonchalant as possible.

And what's this about a mixed race family? Is his step mother Indian? Because she certainly is not black African.

How do you know?
 
Not really sure what to make of this....he did not take the knee because it was so last minute, yet 11 other South African players thought it was ok.

To that end, what of the last year and a half when CSA decided the directive was for players to either "take a knee, raise a fist or stand to attention"...why did he not do any of these? I distinctly remember matches where he stood, hands on hips chewing gum and trying to look as nonchalant as possible.

And what's this about a mixed race family? Is his step mother Indian? Because she certainly is not black African.

I don't want to hate on the guy, which is quite easy given the last two years of his career, his whinging while captain and how his whinging on BLM, but why did he refuse to take a knee yet is willing to make political statements such as a rhino conservation sticker on his bat last year?

QDK does not sit well with me and Temba needs to take a stand now, not whinge about it 10 years down the line during yet another "reconciliation and justice" hearing.

They are called Coloured. Google it, your ignorance is showing.

"For those who don't know, I come from a mixed race family. My half-sisters are Coloured and my step mom is Black. For me, Black lives have mattered since I was born. Not just because there was an international movement."
 
You can be racist against white people in a majority black or brown nation.

I'd suggest you can be racist against anyone anywhere. There's no legal or dictionary definition (to the best of my knowledge) that factors in whether there's any kind of power/numbers imbalance for racism. I'm not exactly sure where that suggestion originated from?
 
So the "deeply religious" argument has been blown out of the water.

Perhaps it was just childish petulance and he has realised how bad his behaviour looked, especially against an all-black opposition that takes the gesture very seriously.

Either way I hope he is welcomed into the fold and the team can move on with one of its top talents. He has genuinely looked disinterested in international cricket for a while but can be a real asset to the side with the right attitude.
 
Has Pakistan ever done this knee thing?

Was watching back the match and when Rohit Sharma asked Babar Azam about it, Babar made a sign with his hand suggesting No. Then the cameras cut to Shaheen who seemed to be asking someone whether they're doing 'hand on heart' or the 'knee'.

Is there some religious significance to not going down on your knees. And if players from both sides seem confused and unaware what they're supposed to be doing, is there any point to continuing with this, other than for the visuals.

No, why should we Muslims kneel for anyone other than Allah SWT.
 
So the "deeply religious" argument has been blown out of the water.

Perhaps it was just childish petulance and he has realised how bad his behaviour looked, especially against an all-black opposition that takes the gesture very seriously.

Either way I hope he is welcomed into the fold and the team can move on with one of its top talents. He has genuinely looked disinterested in international cricket for a while but can be a real asset to the side with the right attitude.

I'm other words, you were completely wrong and you were wrong in calling him names. Got it.
 
Well said. It's just damage limitation from him now because of the backlash. And the fact he may not play for South Africa. I'm sure plenty of his black teammates will have felt let down let alone the windies. I mean the optics have been terrible. It's also interesting to see how these things work out. Black people are seen as guilty until proven innocent from BLM to petty crime. I mean these poor people can't even show a basic non violent protest to the world without white people moaning about their freedoms being hurt. But when a white south African does something idiotic like this that raises the spectre of apartheid its all "I'm not racist gov I have a black family and friends"..please mummy look their all ganging up on me..

Who you are really comes to the fore in the first instant. His initial reaction showed us his character.

Spot on! What's been just as bad is the reaction on by so many on this forum...sadly many form my country. Then again I know how my countrymen think.
 
They are called Coloured. Google it, your ignorance is showing.

"For those who don't know, I come from a mixed race family. My half-sisters are Coloured and my step mom is Black. For me, Black lives have mattered since I was born. Not just because there was an international movement."

I know what the term coloured means, I have had many trips to South Africa, worked with many South Africans and my father was legal council to some in the ANC. Now, what exactly is your response to my post?
 
How do you know?

It is pretty easy to find family photos these days or follow people on instagram, twitter etc. Also, a black south african mother is not going to give birth to a caucasian looking man. But that is besides the point. What is your actual response to my post?
 
I know what the term coloured means, I have had many trips to South Africa, worked with many South Africans and my father was legal council to some in the ANC. Now, what exactly is your response to my post?

I have already replied to your ignorance. Your father shouldn't work for a criminal organisation.

You were name calling him, and making all sorts of assumptions because he's white. No apology today, just more neverending insults. You are a racist.
 
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It is pretty easy to find family photos these days or follow people on instagram, twitter etc. Also, a black south african mother is not going to give birth to a caucasian looking man. But that is besides the point. What is your actual response to my post?

Step mother, your reading comprehension is awful.
 
It is pretty easy to find family photos these days or follow people on instagram, twitter etc. Also, a black south african mother is not going to give birth to a caucasian looking man. But that is besides the point. What is your actual response to my post?

Do you know what the term "step mother" means?
 
Good statement from QDK. Time to draw a line under this one and for everyone to move on.

That statement just makes him look even more of an idiot. If he didn't understand the motives, he should at least have played for his country then sorted it out afterwards. Was taking the knee such a hardship that he thought it was worth letting his team mates and fans down?

The only upside is at least he appears to have realised his mistake, and no thanks to him, it didn't cost SA points.
 
I'm other words, you were completely wrong and you were wrong in calling him names. Got it.

Yes - I was wrong to say that he maybe had racist tendencies. However, at the time it was a valid assertion to make given the circumstances.

He has clarified why he didn't want to take the knee and given some details on his personal background. I believe his apology is genuine and not hollow.

I still think that he was naive and perhaps disrespectful to not do so given the overall context and what it would have signified to his team mates and the oppositon.But he is a human being and we can all make errors in judgement. If he is sincere then forgiveness and reconciliation is the way forward for South African cricket.
 
Last night, the Cricket South Africa Board Chair and two directors met with the men’s Proteas team and management to discuss the Board’s directive regarding “taking the knee”. The Board representatives clarified the Board position and engaged with the issues raised by the players. Following the meeting, the Proteas men’s team agreed to align and unify in taking the knee for the remaining fixtures of the World Cup campaign. CSA has also noted the statement issued by Quinton de Kock in which he too has agreed to take the knee and issued an apology.

Cricket South Africa welcomes all of these developments. They confirm Cricket South Africa’s commitment to non-racism. Taking a united stance against racism is a moral issue, not a political issue. The CSA Board regrets that the timing of its directive earlier this week may have been unsettling for the players in the lead-up to the match against the West Indies.

The CSA is fully supportive of the Protea Men’s team and its captain Temba Bavuma and looks forward to continued successes by the Proteas at the World Cup.
 
That statement just makes him look even more of an idiot. If he didn't understand the motives, he should at least have played for his country then sorted it out afterwards. Was taking the knee such a hardship that he thought it was worth letting his team mates and fans down?

The only upside is at least he appears to have realised his mistake, and no thanks to him, it didn't cost SA points.

Maybe there is more to it behind the scenes with the SA selection policy / quota system to, this could have added more fuel to that fire.

But agree, it was not worth it considering the aftermath and public sentiment. He could have dealt with management afterwards I suppose.
 
so basically he agrees with the knee but didn't understand what it was about even though it has been the main topic of news the past year. and his actions were because he doesn't like being told what to do, sounds like a spoilt selfish brat if you ask me, whos trying to backtrack.
 
so basically he agrees with the knee but didn't understand what it was about even though it has been the main topic of news the past year. and his actions were because he doesn't like being told what to do, sounds like a spoilt selfish brat if you ask me, whos trying to backtrack.

That's not it at all. His full statement:

https://www.news24.com/sport/cricke...take-a-knee-i-have-to-explain-myself-20211028

"I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told."
 
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ok so now he is happy to take the knee, why couldn't he have had this conversation behind closed doors prior to the game, hes a role model at the end of the day and senior pro he should know by now this gesture is there to highlight the matter of racism, you dont abandon your team mates and then after say oo i agree with the knee i just needed it explained to me, that sounds like someone who has seen the backlash and is now backtracking fast.
 
Not really sure what to make of this....he did not take the knee because it was so last minute, yet 11 other South African players thought it was ok.

Somebody on this thread pointed out Nortje didn't take knees both time.. Don't know that's true or not..
 
ok so now he is happy to take the knee, why couldn't he have had this conversation behind closed doors prior to the game, hes a role model at the end of the day and senior pro he should know by now this gesture is there to highlight the matter of racism, you dont abandon your team mates and then after say oo i agree with the knee i just needed it explained to me, that sounds like someone who has seen the backlash and is now backtracking fast.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors. We can only speculate. It probably got heated. CSA has stated they regret the timing of their directive, so it was probably done in some unprofessional manner knowing the clowns at CSA.
 
ok so now he is happy to take the knee, why couldn't he have had this conversation behind closed doors prior to the game, hes a role model at the end of the day and senior pro he should know by now this gesture is there to highlight the matter of racism, you dont abandon your team mates and then after say oo i agree with the knee i just needed it explained to me, that sounds like someone who has seen the backlash and is now backtracking fast.

Is he meaning to say that hes happy to take the knee now ?
This is a key question [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]
 
Poor Quinton. Forced into taking the knee.

Why cant he have his right to decide?

Yeah he shouldve never apologized.. this is about CHOICE. and the right to make a choice regardless of the subject..

A lot of these people wanting to force their opinions on others will eventually face the same push back...

These people dont understand their own rights and freedoms and are freely handing it over the the WOKE MOB. Feels like medieval WITCH HUNTS.
 
Reading the replies in here it shows why taking the knee is still relevant, even if you don't believe it makes any difference.

Words such as 'Far-left' and 'Leftist' are being used for goodness sake :facepalm:
 
Yeah he shouldve never apologized.. this is about CHOICE. and the right to make a choice regardless of the subject..

A lot of these people wanting to force their opinions on others will eventually face the same push back...

These people dont understand their own rights and freedoms and are freely handing it over the the WOKE MOB. Feels like medieval WITCH HUNTS.

With all due respect the word 'Woke' has been over-used and polluted by ignorant people.

That word was used by African-Americans as tool for social justice and equal rights. The right-wing turned it into a weapon to hit out at those asking for justice.

What you've just proved, and not just this once may I add, is your total disregard for the true form and you sheer arrogance and ignorance of right-wing talking points.

Gullibility is one thing. Stupidity is another.
 
Reading the replies in here it shows why taking the knee is still relevant, even if you don't believe it makes any difference.

Words such as 'Far-left' and 'Leftist' are being used for goodness sake :facepalm:

As far as threads go, this one has taken me aback quite a bit.
 
With all due respect the word 'Woke' has been over-used and polluted by ignorant people.

That word was used by African-Americans as tool for social justice and equal rights. The right-wing turned it into a weapon to hit out at those asking for justice.

What you've just proved, and not just this once may I add, is your total disregard for the true form and you sheer arrogance and ignorance of right-wing talking points.

Gullibility is one thing. Stupidity is another.

Lol the last line applies to you well. Social justice? Lmao like i said you guys want ro bring social justice using racist means. By using the quota system in schools and jobs.. peoplr who deserve the spot will not get it because they are white..

While someone with a darker skin color who doesnt deserve job will get thw job based ofd quota system..

Thats called racism.. you are discriminating against ones skin color... how dumb do you have to be to not understand that.

“A child's shoulders were not built to bear the weight of their parents' choices ...

The generation today did not enslave anyone.....

African americans have equal rights ya numb nuts.... like wth was thw civil rights movements for???? Lmaooo go read history..
 
He did have the right to decide, that's why he decided to miss the match instead.

Lol yeah thats not called a choice. A choice whouldve been to play the match regardless of him taking a knee or not..

The mental gymnastics you are playing are next level...

I dont what choice is your mind but its clearly wrong...
 
I didn't understand why I had to prove it with a gesture, when I live and learn and love people from all walks of life every day. When you are told what to do, with no discussion, I felt like it takes away the meaning. If I was racist, I could easily have taken the knee and lied, which is wrong and doesn’t build a better society.

Thread end.
Let him play cricket now.
 
Lol yeah thats not called a choice. A choice whouldve been to play the match regardless of him taking a knee or not..

The mental gymnastics you are playing are next level...

I dont what choice is your mind but its clearly wrong...

Same question to you, what if half the SA team had decided to opt out of the game and they conceded the points? Would that have been ok with the fans and selectors?

I have no problem with De Kock refusing to take the knee, but he is going against his own board (I presume) by doing so. Fine, no one can force him, but does that mean he is going to sit out the whole tournament?
 
Racism movement in middle east... the capital of racism.. let that sink in
 
Same question to you, what if half the SA team had decided to opt out of the game and they conceded the points? Would that have been ok with the fans and selectors?

I have no problem with De Kock refusing to take the knee, but he is going against his own board (I presume) by doing so. Fine, no one can force him, but does that mean he is going to sit out the whole tournament?

Thats the choice the players made..CSA has right to force some player to support a poltical movement.. again no choice was offered. Either you play or you dont.
 
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