Quinton de Kock vs Jos Buttler - Who will go down as a better ODI batsman?

[Ab Fan]

Two glovesman and both really fantastic young batsmen with excellent hitting abilities and on their day can run away the game from the opponent. Who do you think will have a bigger impact or a better career when they retire as far as ODIs are concerned?

I am restricting this comparison solely to ODIs here.

Here are their stats:

Qdk - 3806 runs @Avg 45 , SR 94, 100s 13
Butler - 2651 runs @Avg 38 , SR 117, 100s 5

Before we come to conclusion by looking only at SR or number of hundreds, we have to note that you have one guy who opens the inning while the latter bats mostly at 5-6.

Qdk, although has an advantage that, he is a better keeper between the two.

 

[BlueDoritos]

Quinton de Kock

 

[shah_1]

Buttler

 

[Ab Fan]

Two glovesman and both really fantastic young batsmen with excellent hitting abilities and on their day can run away the game from the opponent. Who do you think will have a bigger impact or a better career when they retire as far as ODIs are concerned?

I am restricting this comparison solely to ODIs here.

Here are their stats:

Qdk - 3806 runs @Avg 45 , SR 94, 100s 13
Butler - 2651 runs @Avg 38 , SR 117, 100s 5

Before we come to conclusion by looking only at SR or number of hundreds, we have to note that you have one guy who opens the inning while the latter bats mostly at 5-6.

Qdk, although has an advantage that, he is a better keeper between the two.

The comparison is made in reflection to the recent comparison made by Michael Vaughan between Jos Butler and MS Dhoni. I believe before going that far, we have another interesting comparison awaiting between two cricketers of similar age. So there we have this thread.

 

[Aman]

QdK.

 

[Protea Fan]

QDK obviously he has 13 centuries at 25 and yet to enter his peak but i am worrying about his form,the lad has regressed steeply in recent period and have some serious problems against lateral movement especially the away swinger.I seriously hope he fix this vulnerability and if he can then will be a bonafide ATG in shorter formats

Buttler has got immense talent but haven't done justice to it yet,he criminally underachieved in international cricket so far.His natural ability to run over high quality bowlers is nothing but prodigious

Anyway both of them are one among the rare players i pay to watch from this era

 

[FreePalestine]

QDK obviously he has 13 centuries at 25 and yet to enter his peak but i am worrying about his form,the lad has regressed steeply in recent period and have some serious problems against lateral movement especially the away swinger.I seriously hope he fix this vulnerability and if he can then will be a bonafide ATG in shorter formats

Buttler has got immense talent but haven't done justice to it yet,he criminally underachieved in international cricket so far.His natural ability to run over high quality bowlers is nothing but prodigious

Anyway both of them are one among the rare players i pay to watch from this era

Agree with you on QDK. Really sad to see his form drop off lately. I don't know what is happening because he was amazing about a year and a half ago. Playing the ball late, right under his eyes and hammering it everywhere. Was Gilchrist level stuff. Really hope he regains his form as he is one of my favourite players to watch.

 

[Ab Fan]

QDK obviously he has 13 centuries at 25 and yet to enter his peak but i am worrying about his form,the lad has regressed steeply in recent period and have some serious problems against lateral movement especially the away swinger.I seriously hope he fix this vulnerability and if he can then will be a bonafide ATG in shorter formats

<B>Buttler has got immense talent but haven't done justice to it yet,he criminally underachieved in international cricket so far.</B>His natural ability to run over high quality bowlers is nothing but prodigious

Anyway both of them are one among the rare players i pay to watch from this era

Agreed with your points.

However, what do you think he needs to do to not be regarded as an underachiever from individual perspective?

 

[Protea Fan]

Agree with you on QDK. Really sad to see his form drop off lately. I don't know what is happening because he was amazing about a year and a half ago. Playing the ball late, right under his eyes and hammering it everywhere. Was Gilchrist level stuff. Really hope he regains his form as he is one of my favourite players to watch.

I have been following him since his under 19 days.In those days he used to take a lot of risks and had weakness against spin.It was once reported that after he failed against spin in the first few international matches where he was selected.Then he changed his batting stance against spin,work on it and fix it brilliantly

That was the time when he went to the UAE to play Pakistan on turning tracks and he cracked his maiden century.Not long after he cracked three consecutive hundreds against India.Then he also scored a hundred on a hell of a turner in sri Lanka

He has to fix his problem against moving ball like this.Lad has got all the talent in the world to do it,now its all about some character

 

[Protea Fan]

Agreed with your points.

However, what do you think he needs to do to not be regarded as an underachiever from individual perspective?

He is the cleanest striker of the cricket ball from this generation only second to AB.On song his shots selection is just unique.The bat speed wrist action and elevation he added while hitting is exceptional

If its about shear talent and scoring shots(not about temperament or technique) he is the closest thing to AB from this era.For such a player an avg of 36-37 is pretty awful i would say.Even some decent players of last era averaged something like this.So did he played up to his potential? hell no

 

[Princejain191]

Apples and oranges. Both have completely different roles and both are very very good at what they do. Just as all comparisons between Ponting and Bevan will be highly subjective.

In a world without Dhoni, Butler would crawl into any XI and in a world without Warner, De Kock would probably be the clear first choice opener for most, if not all.

 

[delpiero10]

Don't forget that Buttler has played his entire ODI career batting at 6 or 7, usually having little time to play himself in and having to go all out from ball one.

I saw Buttler live in the BBL vs Hobart on New Year's Day, and he hit the ball as cleanly as anyone I've ever seen. Plus the way he was lapping Mills and Archer over his shoulder for four or six was just freakish.

If he were to bat in the top 4, I've no doubt that he could average 45+ at a strike rate of around 100+. At the moment England's ODI lineup is so strong that number 6 is the highest he is likely to bat.

 

[FreePalestine]

I have been following him since his under 19 days.In those days he used to take a lot of risks and had weakness against spin.It was once reported that after he failed against spin in the first few international matches where he was selected.Then he changed his batting stance against spin,work on it and fix it brilliantly

That was the time when he went to the UAE to play Pakistan on turning tracks and he cracked his maiden century.Not long after he cracked three consecutive hundreds against India.Then he also scored a hundred on a hell of a turner in sri Lanka

He has to fix his problem against moving ball like this.Lad has got all the talent in the world to do it,now its all about some character

Yes, I remember those innings in the UAE and India. I also really enjoyed some of his quality innings on hard, bouncy pitches in SA. Seemed the complete package.

I wonder whether he has had a little bit too much pressure put on him. Hallmark of his earlier efforts was the freedom with which he played batting at 7 as a junior member of the side, counter-attacking. Now it seems like SA have told him he has to be a top 6 player and so has to take more responsibility. Wonder whether that is weighing on his shoulders and effecting his game.

Makes sense for SA as Philander is good enough to bat at 7 if QDK is firing at 6, but if QDK fails to regain form then SA's batting does not look as strong as it could be with him at 6.

 

[TeymurBlake]

QDK is a batsman who is considered to a part of the Fab 4. Buttler is a good ODI/T20 player. QDK is a great player in all formats

 

[GrandMaster]

Qdk

 

[Ab Fan]

He is the cleanest striker of the cricket ball from this generation only second to AB.On song his shots selection is just unique.The bat speed wrist action and elevation he added while hitting is exceptional

If its about shear talent and scoring shots(not about temperament or technique) he is the closest thing to AB from this era.For such a player an avg of 36-37 is pretty awful i would say.Even some decent players of last era averaged something like this.So did he played up to his potential? hell no

AB is regarded as one of the best players against pace and very good vs swing, seam and spin. Along with AB, Amla and the fab four are also regarded great in that aspect.

We cant really say the same about Jos Butler because he hasn't had a successful test career yet. What he has which is a special gift is that he has got wide range of shots and can hit several kinds of shots on same delivery. You have a player with 360° hitting ability.

 

[CadPakFan]

I'm going for Quinton De Kock because I find him a very exciting player to watch, has only played two more games than Buttler and has 1155 more runs. And he's got some really big daddy hundreds in ODIs like his 178 and 168* while Buttler's highest score is 129. And his average in Asia is 45 with a 92 SR while Buttler's average in Asia is 35 with a 116 SR, and that too his average and SR was highly boosted by one 116* vs Pakistan while De Kock has 4 hundreds. And just in general I find De Kock more of a gun player than Buttler.

 

[Ab Fan]

I'm going for Quinton De Kock because I find him a very exciting player to watch, has only played two more games than Buttler and has 1155 more runs. And he's got some really big daddy hundreds in ODIs like his 178 and 168* while Buttler's highest score is 129. And his average in Asia is 45 with a 92 SR while Buttler's average in Asia is 35 with a 116 SR, and that too his average and SR was highly boosted by one 116* vs Pakistan while De Kock has 4 hundreds. And just in general I find De Kock more of a gun player than Buttler.

All these points will fall right for an opening batsmen when compared to a middle order batsmen.

Daddy hundreds and no. of hundreds will always be higher for an opening batsmen compared to a middle order.

Example:- Just compare no. of hundreds by Kohli to MSD.

 

[Hasan123]

Quinton De Kock.

 

[CadPakFan]

All these points will fall right for an opening batsmen when compared to a middle order batsmen.

Daddy hundreds and no. of hundreds will always be higher for an opening batsmen compared to a middle order.

Example:- Just compare no. of hundreds by Kohli to MSD.

But what about his record in Asia? As he bats down the order shouldn't he have a higher SR since he is more likely to get more not outs.

 

[CadPakFan]

All these points will fall right for an opening batsmen when compared to a middle order batsmen.

Daddy hundreds and no. of hundreds will always be higher for an opening batsmen compared to a middle order.

Example:- Just compare no. of hundreds by Kohli to MSD.

But what about his record in Asia? As he bats down the order shouldn't he have a higher average since he is more likely to get more not outs.

 

[Protea Fan]

AB is regarded as one of the best players against pace and very good vs swing, seam and spin. Along with AB, Amla and the fab four are also regarded great in that aspect.

We cant really say the same about Jos Butler because he hasn't had a successful test career yet. What he has which is a special gift is that he has got wide range of shots and can hit several kinds of shots on same delivery. You have a player with 360° hitting ability.

Of course am talking about shorter formats,test cricket is a different ball game altogether and we all know butler's stature their.I just mentioned about his ability only but the lad hasn't done justice to his potential in LOI's

 

[introvert]

Average of 38 doesn't do justice to buttler's talent he should average around 45 with the skills he has.
Buttler yet to play 100 balls in an innings all of his five 100s come at 100+ strike rate.
Statically Quinton decock is ahead because he scored more runs in almost same number of innings.
As a opener Quinton decock is better
As a finisher buttler is better.

 

[Ab Fan]

But what about his record in Asia? As he bats down the order shouldn't he have a higher average since he is more likely to get more not outs.

Averages in Asia isnt everything. Given the current sample they had, it is not fair to make any conclusion by looking at averages in few countries.

My point was just that we cant say Qdk is ahead of Butler only because he scored many more hundreds than him as that is because of their batting lineup. There should be some other reasons like averages and wkt/keeping skills and perhaps something more which I dont know.

 

[soso_killer]

Averages in Asia isnt everything. Given the current sample they had, it is not fair to make any conclusion by looking at averages in few countries.

My point was just that we cant say Qdk is ahead of Butler only because he scored many more hundreds than him as that is because of their batting lineup. There should be some other reasons like averages and wkt/keeping skills and perhaps something more which I dont know.

We can't use 100's, okay. We can't use runs, okay. We can't use averages either? What other parameters are there?

 

[Ab Fan]

We can't use 100's, okay. We can't use runs, okay. We can't use averages either? What other parameters are there?

You should have read the post atleast. Where I said averages cant be used?

 

[soso_killer]

Averages in Asia isnt everything.

.

 

[Ab Fan]

.

And that is the only thing you read. Both are 25-27 years old. Will their avg remain same in Asia after 6-7 years? With this low sample, we cant come to conclusion on that basis. And those stats will be only in Asia not overall. If you have read the post completely, I clearly mentioned <B>"number of hundreds isn't a fair parameter to make comparison between opening batsmen and one who bats at 6. However, Qdk is still ahead because of something else i.e. averages."</B>

I dont know why posters cant read full post and make argument on one statement even though that isn't the point.

If we start making comparison on basis of hundreds only then Hashim Amla has 25 hundreds while Bevan had just 6 (if he played in this era it would have been 9-11 max).

 

[Ab Fan]

Averages in Asia isnt everything. Given the current sample they had, it is not fair to make any conclusion by looking at averages in few countries.

My point was just that we cant say Qdk is ahead of Butler only because he scored many more hundreds than him as that is because of their batting lineup. <B>There should be some other reasons like averages and wkt/keeping skills and perhaps something more which I dont know.</B>

.

 

[shaaik]

I have been following him since his under 19 days.In those days he used to take a lot of risks and had weakness against spin.It was once reported that after he failed against spin in the first few international matches where he was selected.Then he changed his batting stance against spin,work on it and fix it brilliantly

That was the time when he went to the UAE to play Pakistan on turning tracks and he cracked his maiden century.Not long after he cracked three consecutive hundreds against India.Then he also scored a hundred on a hell of a turner in sri Lanka

He has to fix his problem against moving ball like this.Lad has got all the talent in the world to do it,now its all about some character

I remember that century he scored against us in UAE in the final odi of the series after failing in first 4 Odis and I thought that would have probably put his international cricket on hold for sometime however it wasn’t to be. That century which he scored against us gave him the confidence that he belongs to this level and then what followed was real carnage. 3 back to back centuries against India in 3 odi series. I wonder what Wd hv happened to his career had he not scored that century against us and guess he was dropped on 5 ( probably) in slips by our own blessed in all 3 facets of the game.

 

[CadPakFan]

Averages in Asia isn't everything. Given the current sample they had, it is not fair to make any conclusion by looking at averages in few countries.

My point was just that we cant say Qdk is ahead of Butler only because he scored many more hundreds than him as that is because of their batting lineup. There should be some other reasons like averages and wkt/keeping skills and perhaps something more which I don't know.

I personally find QDK a better wicket keeper just watching him in general. QDK has taken 1.3 catches per game and Buttler has taken 1.2 while saying this you have to take into consideration that QDK is a regular in all three formats while Buttler is a regular in two.

 

[ayemgilani86]

when we say "wicket keeper batsman" do we not include keeping skills at all. De Kock is an excellent keeper in all formats and really underrated. buttler is below average as a keeper, but I believe a better batsman, only plays limited overs though so thats another plus for Quinton

 

[dauntless]

Quinton by miles and this is not even close.He is second to virat and AB in Odis.He will go down as best wicketkeeper batsman in history.

 

[giri26]

Quinton by miles and this is not even close.He is second to virat and AB in Odis.He will go down as best wicketkeeper batsman in history.

I will not go that far but he is an exciting talent and we need to see whether he can be consistent over few years.

 

[hadi123]

Hard to say as both are pretty young and still have at least 5 years left in International cricket provided they stay in shape etc which is likely.

Very hard to say



Quinton De Kock - a better keeper, more consistent, tends to open the batting in ODI's so has more of a chance to build innings

Jos Buttler - more aggressive, more likely to take the game away from you when on song in a matter of few overs but is not consistent enough.

At the moment, if I had to pick one wicket keeper for an ODI world XI, I would probably go for QDK as there are many non WK alternatives to Buttler's role ie lower order batsmen capable of scoring quickly but not so much non WK alternatives as QDK who can also play at a decent strike rate when required.

 

[introvert]

Both are irreplaceable parts of their teams.buttler can't be as good opener as decock & decock can't be as good finisher as buttler.

 

[Justcrazy]

Q D Kock .

No doubt.