Rajiv Gandhi justifying the mass killings of Sikhs in 1984

[Cricfan4eva]

Senior Lawyer H S Phoolka demands that Rajiv Gandhi should be stripped of his "Bharat Ratna" releasing this video of former PM's speech on 1984 anti-Sikh riots. Video of Rajiv Gandhi where he's justifying ‪#‎1984SikhGenocide‬ by calling it a reaction of Indira's Assassination by Sikhs.
It took 30 yrs for all Indians to see this video & Congress says India has no freedom of expression under Modi's rule.
Mrs. Indira Gandhi as Prime Minister shot dead in her own house on 31 October, 1994 was a security breach fanned by the Khalistan militancy movement of Punjab that in June 1994 had culminated in storming of Akal Takt.
The Prime Minister’s assassination resulted in a backlash, mainly by congress party workers, who went berserk – rioting, looting and killing over 3000 Sikhs on the streets of Delhi.
For days the mayhem continued, resulting in the death of thousands of innocent Sikhs, who had nothing to do with Punjab militancy or the assassination of Indira Gandhi.
Where due homage was paid to the dead Prime Minister, nobody in the Rajiv Gandhi led Congress government that followed or in the ruling Congress party of the day had even a word of sympathy for the killings of innocent citizens.
Adding salt to injury, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi from a stage at the Boat Club, publically justified the killing of Sikh citizens in the capital.
The analogy used by Rajiv Gandhi was, “When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake a little.”
What was worse, Congress leaders HKL Bhagat, Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar who were accused of leading brigands of rioters into Sikh colonies, were never booked for the crime. They were rewarded instead with cabinet berths.
Satwant Singh and Kehar Singh, assassins of Indira Gandhi were tried in court and after their mercy pleas were rejected, both by the Supreme Court and the President of India, the duo were hanged on 6 January, 1989.
Till date, no congress leader has been convicted for the murder of any Sikh, in any case related to the 1984 Delhi Sikh riots.

Video of the comment recovered -
[utube]k847hOowO70[/utube]

 

[street cricketer]

I can even stand BJP, but never Congress. These guys wait for every opportunity to communalise every single event to turn the tide in their favour so that they can continue their family dynasty in India forever.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Twisting his words. He didnt' justify the genocide, just explaining why it happened. And in the next statement he lauded people for showing unity. Another BJP ploy to deflect attention from their own misgivings.

 

[Thomaskutty]

We can give him some leeway here.He was emotional and made these remarks in the heat of the moment.It is still a nasty comment though.

 

[Garuda]

Twisting his words. He didnt' justify the genocide, just explaining why it happened. And in the next statement he lauded people for showing unity. Another BJP ploy to deflect attention from their own misgivings.

Isn't that called justification ?

In that sense every justification is telling me "why the killing happened". Finding a reason for mass murder?


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[CricketCartoons]

Isn't that called justification ?

In that sense every justification is telling me "why the killing happened". Finding a reason for mass murder?


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Not at all. In the words of Mehdi Hasan: to explain is not to excuse; explication is not justification.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Not justification at all...he said just because ground shakes when a tree fallls...does not mean earth is still not together..like whise...he said world thought india is shaking ...but it is not


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[CricketCartoons]

Not justification at all...he said just because ground shakes when a tree fallls...does not mean earth is still not together..like whise...he said world thought india is shaking ...but it is not

Rajiv Gandhi was a very decent man, and it is hilarious to see people trying to paint him otherwise. The one person who really incited the crowd was Amitabh Bachchan. Many people saw him on TV inciting a crowd :khoon ka badla khoon se lenge. It is this lowlife who needs to be tried and punished for his involvement.

 

[Garuda]

Not at all. In the words of Mehdi Hasan: to explain is not to excuse; explication is not justification.

Only in his words [emoji851]


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[Garuda]

Rajiv Gandhi was a very decent man, and it is hilarious to see people trying to paint him otherwise. The one person who really incited the crowd was Amitabh Bachchan. Many people saw him on TV inciting a crowd :khoon ka badla khoon se lenge. It is this lowlife who needs to be tried and punished for his involvement.

They both were responsible.

If it was modi then I am sure ppl would have decided that he is a culprit even without any comment.

Sorry for bringing modi but our selective approach in these kind of cases are going over the top .


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[CricketCartoons]

They both were responsible.

If it was modi then I am sure ppl would have decided that he is a culprit even without any comment.

Sorry for bringing modi but our selective approach in these kind of cases are going over the top .

Modi is blamed just because sickulars want someone to blame. That doesn't mean blaming Rajiv is right. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The action was justified, Sikh revolt in India was quashed and subdued forever, now it is only Sikhs abroad who mourn their dead.

 

[Garuda]

Modi is blamed just because sickulars want someone to blame. That doesn't mean blaming Rajiv is right. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I am not blaming. I am pointing out the selective criticism


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[Garuda]

The action was justified, Sikh revolt in India was quashed and subdued forever, now it is only Sikhs abroad who mourn their dead.

Operations against terrorists vs killing of normal Sikh civilians on Delhi roads are two different things.

I support operation against militants but not killing of Mrs gandhi or Sikh killing in Delhi


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[Bhaijaan]

Words of a man whose own beloved mother was shot with countless bullets. What do you really expect from Rajeev?

 

[Cracket]

Meh, let it go and move on. Past is history. And this is coming from a Sikh. Delhi is perfect for Sikhs now, and just had a Sikh Prime Minister. I don't see a point in talking about the past mess.

 

[Indiafan]

Meh, let it go and move on. Past is history. And this is coming from a Sikh. Delhi is perfect for Sikhs now, and just had a Sikh Prime Minister. I don't see a point in talking about the past mess.

+1. This is just an attempt to take attention away from present problems. Who cares, I was not even born then and am sure that is true for most people here. We have current problems to face and we should tackle that. If you play blame game where do we stop in history?

For example, How much atrocities did the British do in India? So did that prevent Modi from going to UK and having a historic alliance? Present is what matter

 

[Bhaijaan]

Meh, let it go and move on. Past is history. And this is coming from a Sikh. Delhi is perfect for Sikhs now, and just had a Sikh Prime Minister. I don't see a point in talking about the past mess.

Thats my Sikh.

#SinghIsBling

 

[CricketCartoons]

+1. This is just an attempt to take attention away from present problems. Who cares, I was not even born then and am sure that is true for most people here. We have current problems to face and we should tackle that. If you play blame game where do we stop in history?

For example, How much atrocities did the British do in India? So did that prevent Modi from going to UK and having a historic alliance? Present is what matter

This video does nothing for sikh justice, but it is not useless. For years Congressis have denied that Rajiv said that, and this video is a good reminder at their hypocrisy and sycophancy.

 

[Yatoo]

Thats my Sikh.

#SinghIsBling

Flop movie

SinghIsKing

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You numbnut, it was this event which truly began the militancy in Punjab.

Not according to the article in the OP.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Young Rajiv Gandhi looked so much like Omar Abdullah.

 

[Fallen King]

Meh, let it go and move on. Past is history. And this is coming from a Sikh. Delhi is perfect for Sikhs now, and just had a Sikh Prime Minister. I don't see a point in talking about the past mess.

Normally it is best to leave past in the past. Unfortunately, what happened in 84 was just beginning. That tactics was later became regular routine which applied on Indian Muslims regularly.

It is dangerous that the moment political leaders justify the purpose of riots which spell disaster waiting to happen. That's how most of Modi apologists justified the purpose of riots in Gujarat which took heavy toll on the Muslim community in Gujarat, and later rewarded with the title of PM to lead India.

The moment political leaders and its apologists justify the purpose of riots, then it is slippery slope to worst possible case of scenario.

 

[gani999]

Those of us who have followed political events during Rajiv Gandhi's times can attest that in his early days, he had a flair for the dramatic. The problem was that he almost always fell flat on his face every time he tried something smart.

For instance, during his early days as PM, he was addressing a meeting of journalists in Delhi's Press Club when the talk drifted to terrorism in Punjab and how there was some sort of external support for it. Rajiv strongly spoke about defeating the terrorists."Hum unko unki naani yaad kara denge", he emphasised.

A lot of people, who thought he was the civilized, suave and soft spoken former airline pilot, were in for a shock.

 

[CricFan007]

Normally it is best to leave past in the past. Unfortunately, what happened in 84 was just beginning. That tactics was later became regular routine which applied on Indian Muslims regularly.

It is dangerous that the moment political leaders justify the purpose of riots which spell disaster waiting to happen. That's how most of Modi apologists justified the purpose of riots in Gujarat which took heavy toll on the Muslim community in Gujarat, and later rewarded with the title of PM to lead India.

The moment political leaders and its apologists justify the purpose of riots, then it is slippery slope to worst possible case of scenario.

who are you? Nawaz Sharrif? where do you get all these headless stories from? what TV and newspaper you watch/read?

Have you been to India? Stop talking rubbish...

 

[Thivagar]

There was a youtube video of Ragiv Gandhi grabbing a police officer by the cheek and shoving him through a crowd. Someone find it and make this thread interesting.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Entire Nehru family got themselves Bharat Ratna.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Finally some justice.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UPDATE?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#UPDATE</a> 1984 anti-Sikh riots: Congress' Sajjan Kumar has been sentenced to life imprisonment. He has to surrender by 31st December, 2018. <a href="https://t.co/AWBwnhHrgr">pic.twitter.com/AWBwnhHrgr</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1074533255431434240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MP2011]

Great to know this.

Now when will Modi pay for his misdeeds?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Great to know this.

Now when will Modi pay for his misdeeds?

Never!!!

Thugs ruling our nation.

Tbf, Kamal Nath is a CM now.

Rapist Stalin will become CM too.

 

[Hitman]

Great to know this.

Now when will Modi pay for his misdeeds?

Never. The court has already given it's verdict on Modi. Mind you, I'm speaking of his guilt, I'm merely speaking of the legal procedure.

 

[MP2011]

Never!!!

Thugs ruling our nation.

Tbf, Kamal Nath is a CM now.

Rapist Stalin will become CM too.

Know about Kamal Nath. Disgusting to know that he is now CM of such a major state. But genuinely surprised to know that Stalin is a rapist. Is he, really?

 

[MP2011]

Never. The court has already given it's verdict on Modi. Mind you, I'm speaking of his guilt, I'm merely speaking of the legal procedure.

Which is such a shame. Being head of state during '02 riots, he was directly complicit in those riots.

 

[MP2011]

See the kind of state India is in these days,

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bjp-lawmakers-shocker-on-bulandshahr-violence-you-only-see-death-of-2-people-not-21-cows-1965832?pfrom=home-topscroll

 

[MP2011]

A lawmaker openly justifying killing of a cop and an innocent. Worse still, fake Yogi eulogizing himself for handling this affair. No wonder India has gone to dogs in last 4.5 years.

But bhakts will say, don't worry, aaalll is wellll!!

 

[CricketCartoons]

A lawmaker openly justifying killing of a cop and an innocent. Worse still, fake Yogi eulogizing himself for handling this affair. No wonder India has gone to dogs in last 4.5 years.

But bhakts will say, don't worry, aaalll is wellll!!

india has gone to the dogs, but not because of Yoji Ji or one lawmaker.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Know about Kamal Nath. Disgusting to know that he is now CM of such a major state. But genuinely surprised to know that Stalin is a rapist. Is he, really?

Used to wait outside Stella Maris college to pick up girls. Pick up as in literally.

Raped TV newsreader Fatima Babu inside the Sun TV studio.

Heard he repented and apologized to the victims but not sure how true or how sincere... Not that that apology is enough anyway.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Used to wait outside Stella Maris college to pick up girls. Pick up as in literally.

Raped TV newsreader Fatima Babu inside the Sun TV studio.

Heard he repented and apologized to the victims but not sure how true or how sincere... Not that that apology is enough anyway.

This is libel. Unless you have proof, you should not make such grave accusations.

 

[MP2011]

Used to wait outside Stella Maris college to pick up girls. Pick up as in literally.

Raped TV newsreader Fatima Babu inside the Sun TV studio.

Heard he repented and apologized to the victims but not sure how true or how sincere... Not that that apology is enough anyway.

Thanks.

That's truly reprehensible.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Thanks.

That's truly reprehensible.

Details might vary but his acts are well known.

 

[Tusker]

A lawmaker openly justifying killing of a cop and an innocent. Worse still, fake Yogi eulogizing himself for handling this affair. No wonder India has gone to dogs in last 4.5 years.

But bhakts will say, don't worry, aaalll is wellll!!

What is your take on the rogue's that brazenly try to harm cows despite knowing very well that it is a crime and a very sensitive issue and that they wont be spared if caught ?

PS: Iam not justifying anything that happens in response.

 

[Sidilicious]

What is your take on the rogue's that brazenly try to harm cows despite knowing very well that it is a crime and a very sensitive issue and that they wont be spared if caught?

PS: Iam not justifying anything that happens in response.

Firstly, Is there any proof that they were harming or killing cows? Why are these people lynched by mobs? Why are they not brought to justice via courts? In a civilised nation, a decision whether a person has broken a law or not should be made in court. Not by mobs.

Secondly, this is already a stupid law, just like the blasphemy law in Pakistan, this gau mata nonsense is another law harming the country. In order to appease all religious groups, firstly congress with the vote bank crap, and now Modi & Yogi with their bovine rakshak nonsense. I am not justifying people breaking the law, but will always question stupid laws.

Just to make up for the lack of cows being killed, I have now turned from not eating much beef for nearly 30 years of my life, to now eating beef every day for the last 4 years.

 

[Tusker]

Firstly, Is there any proof that they were harming or killing cows? Why are these people lynched by mobs? Why are they not brought to justice via courts? In a civilised nation, a decision whether a person has broken a law or not should be made in court. Not by mobs.

They have tried for decades upon decades. This is going on for centuries in India. The more important question here is why dont the supposedly civilized section doesn't get it that it has no choice but to abide by the law and respect sentiments of the community ?

Another thing thats remarkable is that the people who fired the first shots are never questioned at all why is that ?

Secondly, this is already a stupid law, just like the blasphemy law in Pakistan, this gau mata nonsense is another law harming the country. In order to appease all religious groups, firstly congress with the vote bank crap, and now Modi & Yogi with their bovine rakshak nonsense. I am not justifying people breaking the law, but will always question stupid laws.

Just to make up for the lack of cows being killed, I have now turned from not eating much beef for nearly 30 years of my life, to now eating beef every day for the last 4 years.

And just as you are entitled toy our opinion that it is a stupid law they are entitled to the opinion that those who don't respect cows don't deserve to live. This is the end result of being antagonistic and puerile. You think only you can trample on others sensitivities because for some reason you are convinced you right and they are wrong ? .... let me assure you they believe in exactly the opposite way and will trample all over your sensitivities. As the saying goes whats sensitive to you isn't for the other and whats sensitive for the other isn't for you. The end result of this antagonistic approach is that if let it to escalate ... it will lead to civil war if both parties stick to their beliefs and will not work to resolve dispute amicably.

 

[Sidilicious]

They have tried for decades upon decades. This is going on for centuries in India. The more important question here is why dont the supposedly civilized section doesn't get it that it has no choice but to abide by the law and respect sentiments of the community ?

Another thing thats remarkable is that the people who fired the first shots are never questioned at all why is that ?



And just as you are entitled toy our opinion that it is a stupid law they are entitled to the opinion that those who don't respect cows don't deserve to live. This is the end result of being antagonistic and puerile. You think only you can trample on others sensitivities because for some reason you are convinced you right and they are wrong ? .... let me assure you they believe in exactly the opposite way and will trample all over your sensitivities. As the saying goes whats sensitive to you isn't for the other and whats sensitive for the other isn't for you. The end result of this antagonistic approach is that if let it to escalate ... it will lead to civil war if both parties stick to their beliefs and will not work to resolve dispute amicably.

1. If someone commits a crime, try them in the court of a law. Cow slaughter has been practiced in India for hundreds of years. It was never part of the law. If its part of the law, and someone does not obey the law, then try them in a court of law. Why not file a report? Why Lynch someone? From your response it looks like you are pro lynching?

Also, please note - eating beef is not illegal in India. Killing of bovines is in certain states. So effectively, I could kill a cow in Kerala (with a certificate, of course) and then cook a sumptuous meal of Beef curry in Mumbai, and I will be within the law. In the end, I do not care what your sensitivities. If its law, then fine, I will abide by it. But as long as its breaking the law, the Indian constitution does not stop anyone from not caring about your sensitivities.

2. As long as your sensitivities do not interfere with my life, you can be sensitive about anything. But the moment your sensitivities start impacting me, I have the right to complain. If you are sensitive about me eating beef, and I should care for that, what about my sensitivities. I am sensitive against the plucking of rajma. Would people stop eating Rajma if I complained?

 

[Sidilicious]

People in India have such misplaced priorities. In India, there are so many problems. Just to name the big ones
1. Poverty
2. Environment
3. Corruption
4. Ill treatment of women

People never get so agitated when a poor person dies of hunger, or when someone dies of a disease that could have been avoided by better sanitation or when a girl is harassed. But, kill a cow and they get theirs lungis in a twist.

 

[Sidilicious]

1. If someone commits a crime, try them in the court of a law. Cow slaughter has been practiced in India for hundreds of years. It was never against the law until 1950s. If its part of the law, and someone does not obey the law, then try them in a court of law. Why not file a report? Why Lynch someone? From your response it looks like you are pro lynching?

Also, please note - eating beef is not illegal in India. Killing of bovines is in certain states. So effectively, I could kill a cow in Kerala (with a certificate, of course) and then cook a sumptuous meal of Beef curry in Mumbai, and I will be within the law. In the end, I do not care what your sensitivities. If its law, then fine, I will abide by it. But as long as its not breaking the law, the Indian constitution does not stop anyone from not caring about your sensitivities.

2. As long as your sensitivities do not interfere with my life, you can be sensitive about anything. But the moment your sensitivities start impacting me, I have the right to complain. If you are sensitive about me eating beef, and I should care for that, what about my sensitivities. I am sensitive against the plucking of rajma. Would people stop eating Rajma if I complained?

corrections

 

[Tusker]

1. If someone commits a crime, try them in the court of a law. Cow slaughter has been practiced in India for hundreds of years. It was never part of the law. If its part of the law, and someone does not obey the law, then try them in a court of law. Why not file a report? Why Lynch someone? From your response it looks like you are pro lynching?

And as I have said they have tried that route for decades. But why dont you tell me how a certain community still doesnt get it ? Do you realize how callous, brazen and thug like they are when it comes to this topic ?

Iam not pro-lynchinng anybody but neither am I a fake secularist trying to come across as sophisticated by laughing at religious beliefs of others. My point is those that start this nonsense are equally responsible given that this is a very well known sensitive issue. So if someone knowingly and blatantly flouts laws (and sensitivities) then you don't deserve a civilized treatment because you are not civilized to begin with.

What is important to note here is the consistent pattern of knowingly and purposely harming cows. For instance in Kerala there was a case where some lowlifes tried to kill in the vicinity of the temple. If you are expecting people to let that go and do court-kacheri then you dont understand reality.

Also, please note - eating beef is not illegal in India. Killing of bovines is in certain states. So effectively, I could kill a cow in Kerala (with a certificate, of course) and then cook a sumptuous meal of Beef curry in Mumbai, and I will be within the law.

These are legal loopholes ... yes the law is not uniform across the country I know that. But the larger spirit of this discussion is what is considered sacred. Don't tell me Hindus in Kerala dont consider cow as holy.

In the end, I do not care what your sensitivities. If its law, then fine, I will abide by it. But as long as its breaking the law, the Indian constitution does not stop anyone from not caring about your sensitivities.

Wow just wow !! And you consider such attitude to be normal civilized behavior that will foster peaceful co-existence between communities ? With that kind of antagonistic attitude why are you even surprised at the response coming back ?

So at work you know your colleague doesn't like your perfume and is allergic to it ... you are going to tell him his sensitivities don't matter because you legally can do that ? This is how you resolve conflicts ?

2. As long as your sensitivities do not interfere with my life, you can be sensitive about anything. But the moment your sensitivities start impacting me, I have the right to complain. If you are sensitive about me eating beef, and I should care for that, what about my sensitivities. I am sensitive against the plucking of rajma. Would people stop eating Rajma if I complained?

You are comparing this to plucking rajma ? If you want a rational meaningful debate you need to stop being obtuse. Because its very easy to go down the obtuse road (let me know if you want a sample) which will only lead to mods stepping in and culling posts.

 

[gazza619]

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
I think people need to be tolerant and try and respect each other. I will give an example. I am close to someone who converted from Hinduism to Islam. Because of their past practice they still dont eat beef, thats how they grew up. I totally and completely respect that I dont eat beef around that person or even think of ordering food which will contain beef.

Slaughtering cow in public should be banned in India. This is a Pakistani muslim saying who wants peace and love in the subcontinent.

 

[Tusker]

People in India have such misplaced priorities. In India, there are so many problems. Just to name the big ones
1. Poverty
2. Environment
3. Corruption
4. Ill treatment of women

People never get so agitated when a poor person dies of hunger, or when someone dies of a disease that could have been avoided by better sanitation or when a girl is harassed. But, kill a cow and they get theirs lungis in a twist.

Again the usual illogical and deadbeat obtuse logic. For instance do you realize how harmful it is to the environment to raise cattle for meat consumption ? Lets not even talk about the ill-effects on health that will require governments to spend billions of dollar ? Tell that to the supposedly civilized and see how they get their lungi's in a twist lol.

 

[Tusker]

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
I think people need to be tolerant and try and respect each other. I will give an example. I am close to someone who converted from Hinduism to Islam. Because of their past practice they still dont eat beef, thats how they grew up. I totally and completely respect that I dont eat beef around that person or even think of ordering food which will contain beef.

Slaughtering cow in public should be banned in India. This is a Pakistani muslim saying who wants peace and love in the subcontinent.

Absolutely ! Its called give and take, live and let-live. Very few things in life are as cut and dry as Sidilicious tries to paint it.

 

[Sidilicious]

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
I think people need to be tolerant and try and respect each other. I will give an example. I am close to someone who converted from Hinduism to Islam. Because of their past practice they still dont eat beef, thats how they grew up. I totally and completely respect that I dont eat beef around that person or even think of ordering food which will contain beef.

Slaughtering cow in public should be banned in India. This is a Pakistani muslim saying who wants peace and love in the subcontinent.

Mate, I am not asking for people to purposely be insensitive to others. But, why should someone sensitivities affect the minimum human rights of someone. Why should a country have to follow a law which impacts their human rights (20% muslim + other people like me who despite being hindu eat beef). As far as I am concerned, this law is like Pakistans blasphemy law. You cannot create a law to appease an extremist set of people.

The law against killing of cows has been around there since nearly 70 years in most state of India. But it was never a big deal, and no one was killed for cow slaughter until 2014. Why was this not a problem before? There have been BJP governments in the centre and other states before 2014. Why didn't they try to enforce this law? Because of 3 logical possibilities
1. No cows were killed
2. Cows were killed, but most people didnt care. But, something sinister has been happening since 2014

While growing up in India, I always had at least a couple of muslim friends in my group. Due to my background of having studied in a boarding school (age 10 -12) with a few Bhutanese, Nepalese and Bangladeshi students, I was open to the consumption of Beef. One time, when I mentioned the idea of eating to my friends, everyone including the muslim guy showed disgust about the idea of eating beef. This happened with a couple of other muslim friends. Which meant that most of my muslim friends did not eat beef. And I studied both in posh private schools and government public schools. So I met muslims from walks of the society and most of them were against the idea of eating beef.

This proves a few things to me
1. Most Indians do not care about the cow slaughter topic. Only a minority do. Otherwise, this would have been an issue between 1950 and 2014
2. Cow slaughter and beef consumption is not at all common amongst muslim communities. It might happen, but its rare
3. Something sinister has happened since 2014, that there so much drama about bovine lives.

Anyways, all I am saying is that we have a minority forcing their views on others.

 

[Sidilicious]

Again the usual illogical and deadbeat obtuse logic. For instance do you realize how harmful it is to the environment to raise cattle for meat consumption ? Lets not even talk about the ill-effects on health that will require governments to spend billions of dollar ? Tell that to the supposedly civilized and see how they get their lungi's in a twist lol.

When your religion and your beliefs become more important than the lives of the poor and the down trodden...when you get more incensed upon a cows death than you are at the death of the poor dying from cold...then your priorities are certainly misplaced.

 

[Sidilicious]

And as I have said they have tried that route for decades. But why dont you tell me how a certain community still doesnt get it ? Do you realize how callous, brazen and thug like they are when it comes to this topic ?

Can you tell me how many cases went to the court between 1950-2014 about bovine slaughter? Can you tell me what were convictions. This nonsense about "they have tried for decades" requires some proof or citation. Otherwise it did not happen.

Iam not pro-lynchinng anybody but neither am I a fake secularist trying to come across as sophisticated by laughing at religious beliefs of others. My point is those that start this nonsense are equally responsible given that this is a very well known sensitive issue. So if someone knowingly and blatantly flouts laws (and sensitivities) then you don't deserve a civilized treatment because you are not civilized to begin with.

What is important to note here is the consistent pattern of knowingly and purposely harming cows. For instance in Kerala there was a case where some lowlifes tried to kill in the vicinity of the temple. If you are expecting people to let that go and do court-kacheri then you dont understand reality.
.

An Indian citizen is not required to follow everyones sensitivities. They are only required to abide by the Indian laws and the constitution. If there is no law within the state (and national law) that forbids killing of a cow near a temple, then the person cannot be harmed by some lowlife bhakt. And even if this person did go against the law, it ought to go through proper proceedings. From your responses it is clear that you seem fine with mob justice.

These are legal loopholes ... yes the law is not uniform across the country I know that. But the larger spirit of this discussion is what is considered sacred. Don't tell me Hindus in Kerala dont consider cow as holy.
.

Actually, most Keralite Hindus dont. I live in Germany right now. Went to a Keralite hindus place for dinner last weekend. Whats for dinner? A lovely delicious bit of beef curry. In fact, 80% of Keralites eat beef and 40% of meat consumed in Kerala is beef. Surely, that's not just Christians and Muslims. Significant number of hindus in Kerala consume beef.

Wow just wow !! And you consider such attitude to be normal civilized behavior that will foster peaceful co-existence between communities ? With that kind of antagonistic attitude why are you even surprised at the response coming back ?

For an Indian, he or she needs to respect the laws of India and the Indian constitution. Sensitivities do not even come into question.

So at work you know your colleague doesn't like your perfume and is allergic to it ... you are going to tell him his sensitivities don't matter because you legally can do that ? This is how you resolve conflicts ?

In this case, I would not do it because if I wore the perfume, I would be physically harming her. I once stopped eating peanuts on my desk because one of my colleagues had nut allergy.

But if she came and said that please dont wear perfume, because wearing perfume offends her, I will tell her to stop being an ....

You are comparing this to plucking rajma ? If you want a rational meaningful debate you need to stop being obtuse. Because its very easy to go down the obtuse road (let me know if you want a sample) which will only lead to mods stepping in and culling posts.

It might be a bit OTT, but the point is fair. Beef is my staple diet. So banning of beef for me is like banning Rajma for others.

And What about the sensitivities of the muslims in India. They are nearly 20% of the population. Why is the consumption of pig not banned in India?

 

[Tusker]

Mate, I am not asking for people to purposely be insensitive to others. .

You most certainly are ( just look at your posts right here in this thread were you are glorifying beef eating when you know people are sensitive to that topic ) and indeed so are most people behind these incidents unless you want to tell me they have been living under a rock and have no clue whatsoever about how sensitive this topic is.

 

[Tusker]

But if she came and said that please dont wear perfume, because wearing perfume offends her, I will tell her to stop being an ....
?

Let me tell you this - you will not go much far in your career with that mindset and attitude. Don't see any point debating this with someone so completely out of touch with reality and common etiquette's and courtesy. And you are an Indian whose staple diet is Beef ehh ? lol

 

[Sidilicious]

Let me tell you this - you will not go much far in your career with that mindset and attitude. Don't see any point debating this with someone so completely out of touch with reality and common etiquette's and courtesy. And you are an Indian whose staple diet is Beef ehh ? lol

obviously, you chose not to reply to other points because you have not counter for them.

As for my staple diet being beef. Yes, it is. I have been living out of India for a while now. And so I do beef pretty much everyday. At my work canteen, when I eat out and sometimes I even cook a nice bit of beef keema.

 

[Tusker]

Can you tell me how many cases went to the court between 1950-2014 about bovine slaughter? Can you tell me what were convictions. This nonsense about "they have tried for decades" requires some proof or citation. Otherwise it did not happen.

Neither can you prove that is did not happen at all. You need to realize why Sardar Patel made that as a law in 1955. Read some history about Hindu-Muslim conflicts.

An Indian citizen is not required to follow everyones sensitivities. They are only required to abide by the Indian laws and the constitution. If there is no law within the state (and national law) that forbids killing of a cow near a temple, then the person cannot be harmed by some lowlife bhakt. And even if this person did go against the law, it ought to go through proper proceedings. From your responses it is clear that you seem fine with mob justice.

Again concentrating on technical/legal loophole ignoring larger widely popular known sentiment. Are you saying Killing cows in temple vicinity is the norm and nothing wrong with it ? Everyone knows this is wrong. Where is your outrage at that. From your posts it is very clear that you dont see any issue at all with Muslims trampling all over Hindu beliefs despite knowing that it will lead to riots ?

Actually, most Keralite Hindus dont. I live in Germany right now. Went to a Keralite hindus place for dinner last weekend. Whats for dinner? A lovely delicious bit of beef curry. In fact, 80% of Keralites eat beef and 40% of meat consumed in Kerala is beef. Surely, that's not just Christians and Muslims. Significant number of hindus in Kerala consume beef.

These arent technically Hindus.

For an Indian, he or she needs to respect the laws of India and the Indian constitution. Sensitivities do not even come into question.

This is the problem. Harmony isnt achieved merely by following rules and regulation. For instance do you see Hindus purposely killing pigs in Muslim areas or near mosques ? The reverse however is not true.

And What about the sensitivities of the muslims in India. They are nearly 20% of the population. Why is the consumption of pig not banned in India?

Pig isnt a sacred animal for them. Wrong analogy. A better analogy is drawing Prophet Mohammad. Why dont you try that and see what happens ? So do people in India purposely do this when they absolutely can ? Do you realize the problem in your "Iam not breaking any law" argument ? (See how easy it is to be obtuse and trample over others sensitivities ) ?

When your religion and your beliefs become more important than the lives of the poor and the down trodden...when you get more incensed upon a cows death than you are at the death of the poor dying from cold...then your priorities are certainly misplaced.

You listed Environment as one of the top priorities. If you and other carnivores followed Hinduism and Jainism principles the world wouldnt be in danger of drastic climate change that will kill significantly more people than all cow related riots and deaths put together and multiplied by large factor. Yup sure lets talk about priorities.

 

[Tusker]

obviously, you chose not to reply to other points because you have not counter for them.

See above.

As for my staple diet being beef. Yes, it is. I have been living out of India for a while now. And so I do beef pretty much everyday. At my work canteen, when I eat out and sometimes I even cook a nice bit of beef keema.

Yeah and Iam Santa Clauss who does not eat meat. As I said you just dont get the point about being deliberately obtuse, rigid and just plain deadbeat at all do you ?

 

[Sidilicious]

Neither can you prove that is did not happen at all. You need to realize why Sardar Patel made that as a law in 1955. Read some history about Hindu-Muslim conflicts.

You made the claim and the muslim community would not stop killing cows. So you need to provide a proof. Since you dont have any proof, just claims out of thin air, its clear that you are making stuff up. Bovine Bhakt conspiracy theory.

Again concentrating on technical/legal loophole ignoring larger widely popular known sentiment. Are you saying Killing cows in temple vicinity is the norm and nothing wrong with it ? Everyone knows this is wrong. Where is your outrage at that. From your posts it is very clear that you dont see any issue at all with Muslims trampling all over Hindu beliefs despite knowing that it will lead to riots ?

Killing a cow near a temple might be religiously insensitive, and should be avoided, as the uncivilised Bovine Bhakts might try to Lynch you for lives. If it is so much a problem for the Keralites, then why wasn't this written into their law?

These arent technically Hindus.

Yes, you now define who is a hindu and who is not. This reminds me of the whole Ahmadi are not allowed to call themselves muslims thing. Extremist trying to define who is a hindu and who is not. Just because I clearly showed that other than the Bovine Bhakts, no one really cares about cow slaughter, you are now calling those who do not care about cow slaughter as not Hindu. Just makes me laugh.

This is the problem. Harmony isnt achieved merely by following rules and regulation. For instance do you see Hindus purposely killing pigs in Muslim areas or near mosques ? The reverse however is not true.

You cannot define how another community should behave. In order to achieve harmony, the Bovine Bhakts need to also follow the Indian Law. Obviously, when they dont, people like you will support the mob justice.

Pig isnt a sacred animal for them. Wrong analogy. A better analogy is drawing Prophet Mohammad. Why dont you try that and see what happens ? So do people in India purposely do this when they absolutely can ? Do you realize the problem in your "Iam not breaking any law" argument ? (See how easy it is to be obtuse and trample over others sensitivities ) ?

Again, if Indians think that this is such a problem, then make it into a law. But as long as its not law, people should have the rights to question or criticise the actions of any religious figure.

You listed Environment as one of the top priorities. If you and other carnivores followed Hinduism and Jainism principles the world wouldnt be in danger of drastic climate change that will kill significantly more people than all cow related riots and deaths put together and multiplied by large factor. Yup sure lets talk about priorities.

As I said, instead of spending so much time condoning the lynching of people and mob justice from Bovine Bhakts, had you spent thinking about the poor and those dying in the winter cold, India would have been a much better place.

 

[Sidilicious]

See above.



Yeah and Iam Santa Clauss who does not eat meat. As I said you just dont get the point about being deliberately obtuse, rigid and just plain deadbeat at all do you ?

Well, I would love to see when you and your Bovine Bhakts get hounded out when Modi and Yogi lose their next election. I will probably celebrate that by going to Kerala and feasting on beef for a week.

Or even if they dont lose, I will still feast on beef in Germany just to make up for the lack beef eating thats going on in India.

 

[MP2011]

Bhakts are so amazing....

They won't be aghast at innocents getting lynched by saffronites but get immediately triggered at some stray cow getting allegedly killed. If you love cows so much why don't you take some of them (wandering as stray in all Indian localities) to some shelter and feed them? Have you even seen what these stray cows eat when they are on roads?

 

[Tusker]

Bhakts are so amazing....

They won't be aghast at innocents getting lynched by saffronites but get immediately triggered at some stray cow getting allegedly killed. If you love cows so much why don't you take some of them (wandering as stray in all Indian localities) to some shelter and feed them? Have you even seen what these stray cows eat when they are on roads?

lol you got all wound up because someone questioned and poked big holes in your supposedly civilized , sophisticated and supposedly very secular thought process ehh ? But the itch to malign those who do not agree with your views does not diminish at all right ?

So let me take the bait and respond in kind since it is clear that you are really not interested in a meaningful conversation and all you want to do is indulge in mudslinging , name calling, put downs and one upmanship.

Why dont you undertake a one way journey ( Fully sponsored ) to someplace ( I recommend our two neighbors one to the east and one to the west but choice is yours !) where you dont have cow problem ? Easiest and cheapest ( Sasta and tikao) possible solution to all your problems.

Two can play this game very easily.

 

[Sidilicious]

lol you got all wound up because someone questioned and poked big holes in your supposedly civilized , sophisticated and supposedly very secular thought process ehh ? But the itch to malign those who do not agree with your views does not diminish at all right ?

So let me take the bait and respond in kind since it is clear that you are really not interested in a meaningful conversation and all you want to do is indulge in mudslinging , name calling, put downs and one upmanship.

Why dont you undertake a one way journey ( Fully sponsored ) to someplace ( I recommend our two neighbors one to the east and one to the west but choice is yours !) where you dont have cow problem ? Easiest and cheapest ( Sasta and tikao) possible solution to all your problems.

Two can play this game very easily.

Nah. Why don't you go to Nepal, which is meant to be the only Hindu nation in the world. There you wont see any cow die.

 

[Tusker]

Nah. Why don't you go to Nepal, which is meant to be the only Hindu nation in the world. There you wont see any cow die.

News flash and welcome to 2018 ( almost 2019) ... Nepal isn't a Hindu country anymore. See this is what happens when you are on a Staple diet that is not meant for human consumption

As I said it is very very easy to play your own game with your own rules and yet run you ragged.

Let me know if you want to switch back to serious mature discussion mode. Upto you.

 

[Sidilicious]

News flash and welcome to 2018 ( almost 2019) ... Nepal isn't a Hindu country anymore. See this is what happens when you are on a Staple diet that is not meant for human consumption

As I said it is very very easy to play your own game with your own rules and yet run you ragged.

Let me know if you want to switch back to serious mature discussion mode. Upto you.

Ah well, good to know that Nepal have seen the light. As for cow slaughter, Indians will keep eating beef in Kerala and the states where it is not banned.

And for the bolded comment....thats a typical response for a bovine Bhakt when you confront them with any argument.

 

[Tusker]

You made the claim and the muslim community would not stop killing cows. So you need to provide a proof. Since you dont have any proof, just claims out of thin air, its clear that you are making stuff up. Bovine Bhakt conspiracy theory.

I dont have access to a database that has a list of FIR cases filed across India. Neither do you. Remember it is your claim that those who retaliate dont follow the law at all. So the onus is also on you to prove that which you cannot. And last time I checked there are only two parties here Hindus and Muslims ... unless you want to indulge in in some fertile maansaahaaree ( non-veg) kaanspiracy theory and propose Jains/Buddists/Sikhs/Martians/etc.. as the culprits.

Killing a cow near a temple might be religiously insensitive, and should be avoided, as the uncivilised Bovine Bhakts might try to Lynch you for lives. If it is so much a problem for the Keralites, then why wasn't this written into their law?

ok great exhibition of maturity levels. Wow. So going by your great logic you should not have problems with pigs near mosques or modern art titled "the Prophet" ?

Yes, you now define who is a hindu and who is not. This reminds me of the whole Ahmadi are not allowed to call themselves muslims thing. Extremist trying to define who is a hindu and who is not. Just because I clearly showed that other than the Bovine Bhakts, no one really cares about cow slaughter, you are now calling those who do not care about cow slaughter as not Hindu. Just makes me laugh.

Not me and most definitely not you. Something tells me you an aethist will attempt to lecture on criteria for being considered a Hindu ?

You cannot define how another community should behave. In order to achieve harmony, the Bovine Bhakts need to also follow the Indian Law. Obviously, when they dont, people like you will support the mob justice.

You seem to forget that the situation starts with Carnivore bhakts flouting laws ... So before you lecture others to follow laws you might want to take a leaf out of your own lecture and then voila the problem magically disappers.

Again, if Indians think that this is such a problem, then make it into a law. But as long as its not law, people should have the rights to question or criticise the actions of any religious figure.

Gothcha so the real issue is someone decided to put an end to the rogue behavior of your topi dosts and you don't like the outcome ? And I see you dont have issues as long as the rogueness flows one way ? Whatta surprise lol

but thanks for displaying wonderful levels of maturity and the fine art of building communal harmony and relationships between diverse communities. And then you have the gall to claim high ground on this topic by claiming no law was broken ? Laughable.

As I said, instead of spending so much time condoning the lynching of people and mob justice from Bovine Bhakts, had you spent thinking about the poor and those dying in the winter cold, India would have been a much better place.

And instead of you and carnivore chaddi dosts spending so much time on this topic if you had educated yourselves with benefits of a vegetarian diet you could literally save the planet and those who die due to cow violence in India - if there ever was a great example of the phrase "greater good" then this is it. Win-Win-Win across the board. So the next time you want to dig into your "Staple diet" think how many people you will be saving if you switched to a shudh shakahaari bhojan

 

[Tusker]

Ah well, good to know that Nepal have seen the light. As for cow slaughter, Indians will keep eating beef in Kerala and the states where it is not banned.

Don't worry I get it you don't have any moral compunctions to understand whether your actions are considered offensive to others. We have already established that you are incapable of such morals. But the more important thing to take away here is the side effects of your "Staple Diet". It is directly responsible for all the self goals you are scoring

And for the bolded comment....thats a typical response for a bovine Bhakt when you confront them with any argument.

How is that confronting business working out so far? I suppose you didn't expect and don't like your peurile, tedious , and obtuse bakwas thrown back at you at all ehh? I mean environment was one of your top priorities - and it didn't occur to you that your actions contribute towards environmental disaster that also kills a lot more people than any Hindu's retaliating ... This is called being owned by your own rules and logic. Talk about epic self goals lol