What's new

Rank these great openers of post 90s and 2000s in the Test format

Ab Fan

Ab Fan

Senior Test Player
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Runs
28,055
Graeme Smith- Avgs 48
Gary Kirsten- Avgs 45
Matthew Hayden-Avgs 50
Justin Langer-Avgs 45
Alastair Cook- Avgs 46
Virender Sehwag-Avgs 49
 
I would put Alec Stewart in there too - he opened for 50 tests and I would argue was better than any of them except Smith and Hayden.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Anwar is better than all of them. How is he not in the list? Just silly.
Click to expand...

I just asked to rank all these great openers.Its not necessary that I will have all of them.You can put Anwar in your ranking. No problem.
 
Sachin136 said:
Smith
Hayden
Cook
Sehwag
Langer
Kirsten
Click to expand...

Looks fair enough. Yes Langer and Kirsten faced better bowlers than Cook but they dont have longevity of Cook and I dont remember them being considered as world best batsmen anytime unlike Cook and Sehwag.
 
Ab Fan said:
Looks fair enough. Yes Langer and Kirsten faced better bowlers than Cook but they dont have longevity of Cook and I dont remember them being considered as world best batsmen anytime unlike Cook and Sehwag.
Click to expand...

And forgot to mention Kirsten> Langer.
 
Robert said:
I would put Alec Stewart in there too - he opened for 50 tests and I would argue was better than any of them except Smith and Hayden.
Click to expand...

How did I miss this gem? Alec "less than 40 average" Stewart better than sehwag and langer :)))

P.S. Before robert accuses me of being from the statsguru generation, I saw stewart's whole career, he was as mediocre as they come
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
How did I miss this gem? Alec "less than 40 average" Stewart better than sehwag and langer :)))

P.S. Before robert accuses me of being from the statsguru generation, I saw stewart's whole career, he was as mediocre as they come
Click to expand...

He averages 45 as an opener.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
44.64 actually, with just 3000 runs as opener

Still not fit enough to polish the shoes of sehwag or langer
Click to expand...

Closer to 45 than 'less than 40' :ashwin

Robert has often mentioned that he should have played more as an opener but he was instead forced to keep and batted lower down the order. He has hundreds in West Indies against Ambrose, Walsh and Benjamin, that's probably a better pace attack than any Sehwag scored a hundred against overseas. But yes, a larger sample size would be better to come to a definitive conclusion.
 
Last edited:
Abdullah719 said:
Closer to 45 than 'less than 40' :ashwin

Robert has often mentioned that he should have played more as an opener but he was instead forced to keep and batted lower down the order. He has hundreds in West Indies against Ambrose, Walsh and Benjamin, that's probably a better pace attack than any Sehwag scored a hundred against overseas. But yes, the sample size probably isn't enough.
Click to expand...

But he also averaged 24 in India where sehwag made bowlers cry for taking up bowling as a profession :viru

Sehwag is the greatest matchwinner in asia, whereas stewart was a goodish opener at his best. Sehwag's double ton on rank turner in galle against murali and mendis is also probably way tougher than anything stewart ever faced in his life when it comes to spin bowling.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
But he also averaged 24 in India where sehwag made bowlers cry for taking up bowling as a profession :viru

Sehwag is the greatest matchwinner in asia, whereas stewart was a goodish opener at his best. Sehwag's double ton on rank turner in galle against murali and mendis is also probably way tougher than anything stewart ever faced in his life when it comes to spin bowling.
Click to expand...

Stewart was opener for only three Tests in Asia so the sample size isn't large enough here.

Sehwag was a great opener in Asia, no doubt about that. :misbah2
 
Ranking and rating out of 100:

1) Smith (86)
2) Anwar (85)
3) Hayden (85)
4) Cook (83)
5) Langer (81)
6) Kirsten (80)
7) Sehwag (78)

Sehwag was the worst player of the seaming and/or swinging delivery that I have seen, out of any decent batsman. For an opener, that is an absolutely crippling weakness.

Anwar at #2 is debatable and I admit that I am probably being biases by having him so high.
 
Indians grossly overrate their players. Sehwag was a HUGE ftb. Smith is the best opener in the last 25 years.
 
bujhee kom said:
Indians grossly overrate their players. Sehwag was a HUGE ftb. Smith is the best opener in the last 25 years.
Click to expand...

I dont think anyone would disagree that he had weakness against swing bowling which is why he have relatively poor record in SA, NZ, and England averaging in 20s. However, the reason why we Indians rate him so highly is for his tremendous ability to counter spin bowling even on rank turners. I have never seen any batsman as dominant as him against spinner on rank turners. He may not be rated as test great by pundits, but for most of us Indians, he is great player. He is far better batsman than any batsman your country has ever produced. :viru
 
captain.hansolo said:
Haven't watched much cricket have you sir? Langer ahead of cook and sehwag? Smith ahead of cook and sehwag?
Click to expand...

Yes because Langer faced bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, etc and still averaged 45.

Cook was just an average batsmen who probably only faced one ATG bowler (Steyn) in his peak. Check his Ashes record before and after McGrath/Warne's retirement.

Sehwag was the biggest FTB of them all. A great player of spin but embarrassingly bad if the pitch had anything in it for fast bowlers.

Hayden and Smith were both the highest rated openers in the world. Hayden is the only one who retired with 50+ average as an opener. Smith averaged 48 despite opening in the toughest place to bat in tests.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Yes because Langer faced bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, etc and still averaged 45.

Cook was just an average batsmen who probably only faced one ATG bowler (Steyn) in his peak. Check his Ashes record before and after McGrath/Warne's retirement.

Sehwag was the biggest FTB of them all. A great player of spin but embarrassingly bad if the pitch had anything in it for fast bowlers.

Hayden and Smith were both the highest rated openers in the world. Hayden is the only one who retired with 50+ average as an opener. Smith averaged 48 despite opening in the toughest place to bat in tests.
Click to expand...

Langer wasn't a match winner unlike Smith,Hayden and Sehwag and couldn't dominate an inning or be a run machine unlike the three.
 
Ab Fan said:
Langer wasn't a match winner unlike Smith,Hayden and Sehwag and couldn't dominate an inning or be a run machine unlike the three.
Click to expand...

Langer had a different role. Can't compare batsmen like that. All I remember is that he averaged 50 against Wasim, Waqar, Donald, and Pollock.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Langer had a different role. Can't compare batsmen like that. All I remember is that he averaged 50 against Wasim, Waqar, Donald, and Pollock.
Click to expand...

His career avg is 44-45 . Does he really avg 50 against those names?

He failed in subcontinent remember. I will take Kirsten over him.
 
Ab Fan said:
His career avg is 44-45 . Does he really avg 50 against those names?

He failed in subcontinent remember. I will take Kirsten over him.
Click to expand...

Yes, he averages 50 against 4 ATG fast bowlers. The main role of an opener is to face the new ball.

He averaged 48.65 in Australia, 55.11 in England, 51.60 in WI, 48.41 in NZ, and 46.66 in Pakistan. This is one hell of a record for an opener against all top bowling attacks of his time.

It does not matter if he failed in India and SL. Both of those teams did not have a single great fast bowler let alone an ATG.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Yes, he averages 50 against 4 ATG fast bowlers. The main role of an opener is to face the new ball.

He averaged 48.65 in Australia, 55.11 in England, 51.60 in WI, 48.41 in NZ, and 46.66 in Pakistan. This is one hell of a record for an opener against all top bowling attacks of his time.

It does not matter if he failed in India and SL. Both of those teams did not have a single great fast bowler let alone an ATG.
Click to expand...

I disagree with last para. Ind and SL had Kumble and Murali who we all know how good they are at home and winning in their home conditions was never that easy.You need to be good vs spin to do well there.

Langer was a very very good opener but not in the same class of Smith or Hayden. I cant say the same about Cook because of his susceptibility vs quality pace.

Sehwag is a completely different player to Langer. So cant really compare.We can compare him with Hayden but think Hayden wins marginally.
 
Ab Fan said:
I disagree with last para. Ind and SL had Kumble and Murali who we all know how good they are at home and winning in their home conditions was never that easy.You need to be good vs spin to do well there.

Langer was a very very good opener but not in the same class of Smith or Hayden. I cant say the same about Cook because of his susceptibility vs quality pace.

Sehwag is a completely different player to Langer. So cant really compare.We can compare him with Hayden but think Hayden wins marginally.
Click to expand...

That's why I said the role of an opener is to see off new ball which Langer did. Openers are not generally rated based on how good is their game against spinners. Langer was a gutsy opener who was very hard to dismiss. Watching him bat was like watching paint dry but that does not make him a bad opener.

Both India and SL were neither top test teams in his time nor had strong bowling attacks. So, lack of performance against those 2 teams hardly matter.
 
Also he failed vs SA and improved his stats vs WI in latter part of his career when their bowling wasnt all that great.
 
Ab Fan said:
Also he failed vs SA and improved his stats vs WI in latter part of his career when their bowling wasnt all that great.
Click to expand...

Of course, he was not perfect. He had flaws in his record. That's why I put both Hayden and Smith ahead of him on my list.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Of course, he was not perfect. He had flaws in his record. That's why I put both Hayden and Smith ahead of him on my list.
Click to expand...

Yes. But I think I will have Kirsten ahead too because he did really well in subcontinent and recall him doing really well vs the two Ws.Was similar to Langer but slightly ahead for me.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
But he also averaged 24 in India where sehwag made bowlers cry for taking up bowling as a profession :viru

Sehwag is the greatest matchwinner in asia, whereas stewart was a goodish opener at his best. Sehwag's double ton on rank turner in galle against murali and mendis is also probably way tougher than anything stewart ever faced in his life when it comes to spin bowling.
Click to expand...

Relax, he is only trying to emphasize that Shoaib Akhtar, asif and co were mediocre, pedestrian bowlers against whom Sehwag Scored. Which is true.
 
Smith
Sehwag
Kirsten
Cook
Langer

Smith was the biggest reason SA were such a great team in 2007-2013. SA have always had great allrounders and fast bowlers. What they needed was a man with iron will as captain, especially in the aftermath of Cronje. Smith is one of the toughest batsmen I have ever seen. SA's Alan Border.
 
CanadianG00se said:
I dont think anyone would disagree that he had weakness against swing bowling which is why he have relatively poor record in SA, NZ, and England averaging in 20s. However, the reason why we Indians rate him so highly is for his tremendous ability to counter spin bowling even on rank turners. I have never seen any batsman as dominant as him against spinner on rank turners. He may not be rated as test great by pundits, but for most of us Indians, he is great player. He is far better batsman than any batsman your country has ever produced. :viru
Click to expand...

The latter point is immaterial. Sehwag was useless away from Asia. Averaging in the 20s in comical. People throw 'great' around too much - very few players are truly great.
India has 2 - SRT and Gavaskar. A good number of excellent players but great - only 2.

We have 1 - Shakib.
Pak has 2 - Imran and Wasim. Maybe Waqar, but 2 for sure.
Lanka 2 : Murali and Sangakarra.
 
bujhee kom said:
The latter point is immaterial. Sehwag was useless away from Asia. Averaging in the 20s in comical. People throw 'great' around too much - very few players are truly great.
India has 2 - SRT and Gavaskar. A good number of excellent players but great - only 2.

We have 1 - Shakib.
Pak has 2 - Imran and Wasim. Maybe Waqar, but 2 for sure.
Lanka 2 : Murali and Sangakarra.
Click to expand...

Ricky Ponting , Lara, and Warne were useless in India ... Lillee never played in India ... that somehow doesnt matter for those players.
 
Tusker said:
Ricky Ponting , Lara, and Warne were useless in India ... Lillee never played in India ... that somehow doesnt matter for those players.
Click to expand...

1. We are not debating them.
2. Failing in 1 nation is not the same as failing everywhere but home.
 
bujhee kom said:
The latter point is immaterial. Sehwag was useless away from Asia. Averaging in the 20s in comical. People throw 'great' around too much - very few players are truly great.
Click to expand...

Sehwag averages 47 in australia, 69 in lanka, 91 in pakistan, 51 in west indies.

He failed in 1 series in England which messed up his average there, he failed in nz but you need to rewatch the pitches for the first series series he played in nz.
 
Lanka & Pakistan are in Asia and I concede he was good on those super flat tracks esp in Pk.
 
bujhee kom said:
1. We are not debating them.
2. Failing in 1 nation is not the same as failing everywhere but home.
Click to expand...

see [MENTION=144269]ToeCrusher2[/MENTION] post ... In fact Lillee's only claim to fame in that case is vs Eng.
 
bujhee kom said:
Lanka & Pakistan are in Asia and I concede he was good on those super flat tracks esp in Pk.
Click to expand...

There are only 8 good test nations fyi, if you start excluding countries you wouldn't be left with much, he only failed in england, nz and south africa, nobody cares about nz, we barely tour nz, almost every great batsman except sachin has failed in south africa ( the toughest place to tour) and he ruined his average in england by playing 1 series too many near the end of his career, it still doesn't change the fact that Sehwag is one of the greatest openers the world has every seen and easily the 2nd greatest test opener from asia after gavaskar.
 
bujhee kom said:
Lanka & Pakistan are in Asia and I concede he was good on those super flat tracks esp in Pk.
Click to expand...

Is Australia in Asia too ? He did well in England except for the last series where he was recalled at short notice well past his prime.

And if the pitches are soo flat why doesnt Ponting have the same sort of numbers in Asia ?
 
Last edited:
Sehwag devalues this list .
Those are some great names in there.
You could make a case for any of them really . They all had guts . Sehwag well he had none . Still remember that pair in England. The dude had no fight in him .
 
Tusker said:
Is Australia in Asia too ? He did well in England except for the last series where he was recalled at short notice well past his prime.

And if the pitches are soo flat why doesnt Ponting have the same sort of numbers in Asia ?
Click to expand...

Ponting has good numbers in Pk/UAE and Lanka. No?
 
bujhee kom said:
The latter point is immaterial. Sehwag was useless away from Asia. Averaging in the 20s in comical. People throw 'great' around too much - very few players are truly great.
India has 2 - SRT and Gavaskar. A good number of excellent players but great - only 2.

We have 1 - Shakib.
Pak has 2 - Imran and Wasim. Maybe Waqar, but 2 for sure.
Lanka 2 : Murali and Sangakarra.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard of Rahul Dravid?
Ms Dhoni?
Ganguly (Odi)?
Kumble?

Shakib is no different than Sehwag

Heres Shakib's away batiing average
Eng 13,
SA 11.5,
SL 31( still poor for supposed Great batsman)
Zim 37 ( despite Zimbos being worst test team in past decade)

Id take Sehwag over, HTB Shakib anyday and everyday.

Heres his bowling averages

In India- 77
Eng- 34
Nz- 40
SL- 46
Even against Zim he averages in mid 30s.

So, against half the sides he is pretty mediocre at best.

This sums up the reason why India do not invite bangladesh, they just not worth our time.
 
Ab Fan said:
Sehwag is ridiculously underrated in tests.
Click to expand...

Sehwag is not underrated he has been rated fairly well in cricket environment may be in this forum he's but i can understand that because he literally demolishes pakistan in a ruthless way every time he faces them

He played pretty well in both SA and Eng at the starting phase of his carrier.His debut inngs at bloemfontein was sumptuous against pollock and ntini in a tough wicket

Sehwag joined the Indian test team in 2001, the next year on his first tour to NZ, he was the only one to hit multiple centuries in that ODI series.All the kiwi wickets were green tops, the ball would land on the leg and end in 1st slip. hat was Sehwag's 1st tour to NZ,and he was the highest scorer from both sides

Actually he didn't had any problem against lateral movement at the start but unfortunately once his hand-eye coordination gone he declined steeply in late phases thats how his stats looked awful in 2-3 countries

Impact wise he was a juggernaut and thats why he is been up their with some legendary names most times ahead of the players listed here
 
CanadianG00se said:
I dont think anyone would disagree that he had weakness against swing bowling which is why he have relatively poor record in SA, NZ, and England averaging in 20s. However, the reason why we Indians rate him so highly is for his tremendous ability to counter spin bowling even on rank turners. I have never seen any batsman as dominant as him against spinner on rank turners. He may not be rated as test great by pundits, but for most of us Indians, he is great player. He is far better batsman than any batsman your country has ever produced. :viru
Click to expand...

Can't average in the 20's in half the world and be a great batsman I am afraid. At best, you can say he was an ATG on spinning tracks... I would rather have a player who can win games all around the world.
 
Protea Fan said:
Sehwag is not underrated he has been rated fairly well in cricket environment may be in this forum he's but i can understand that because he literally demolishes pakistan in a ruthless way every time he faces them

He played pretty well in both SA and Eng at the starting phase of his carrier.His debut inngs at bloemfontein was sumptuous against pollock and ntini in a tough wicket

Sehwag joined the Indian test team in 2001, the next year on his first tour to NZ, he was the only one to hit multiple centuries in that ODI series.All the kiwi wickets were green tops, the ball would land on the leg and end in 1st slip. hat was Sehwag's 1st tour to NZ,and he was the highest scorer from both sides

Actually he didn't had any problem against lateral movement at the start but unfortunately once his hand-eye coordination gone he declined steeply in late phases thats how his stats looked awful in 2-3 countries

Impact wise he was a juggernaut and thats why he is been up their with some legendary names most times ahead of the players listed here
Click to expand...

I think the fact that he didn't really fight it or showed the ability to grind out the tough phases in difficult conditions goes against him. He also has poor record in ODIs in those conditions.
 
It's gonna be:

Smith
Hayden
Kirsten
Cook
Sehwag
Langer

Graham Gooch was one of top openers in early 90s and would argue is an overall better opener than everyone in the list bar the first two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ab Fan
Chris Gayle versus Andrew Strauss: Who is the better Test batter?
Replies
48
Views
2K
Ab Fan
Ab Fan
T
  • Poll Poll
Test Draft - which of these teams is most likely to win a Test in India?
2 3 4
Replies
300
Views
31K
amit
amit
Unbiased-Fan
Best Non Asia Test XI to travel to Asia since 2000
Replies
45
Views
4K
Cricfan4eva
Cricfan4eva
QalandarFan
Rank these Test openers
Replies
11
Views
699
QalandarFan
QalandarFan
A
  • Poll Poll
PP Chronological Draft: Rank your top three teams
Replies
31
Views
6K
therealAB
T
Back
Top