[Report] Army Tightens Grip on Pakistan as PM Imran Khan’s Popularity Wanes

[Savak]

Thats because PML N delivered somewhat for Lahore and people of Punjab, unlike PPP who did nothing for Sindh. So if your only two option before were Nawaz Sharif Agar Khata Hai To Lagata Bhi To Hai or aaj bhi Bhutto zinda hai, you cant blame the people for going with PML N.

Now that there is a third party in PTI, people in Punjab gave a chance to them, and PTI has until 2023 to deliver more than PML N. And if they dont than Maryam Bibi will be wazir-e-azam.

Nothing is given about Maryam Nawaz. She doesn't have her father's pull with crowds and no way will uncle Shehbaz allow her to dethrone him. They also have plenty of NAB cases to go through, she did after all admit that she had no idea who deposited $450 million in one of her bank accounts.

 

[Syed1]

Nothing is given about Maryam Nawaz. She doesn't have her father's pull with crowds and no way will uncle Shehbaz allow her to dethrone him. They also have plenty of NAB cases to go through, she did after all admit that she had no idea who deposited $450 million in one of her bank accounts.

She is also disqualified almost up to the 2023 elections, so it might come down to legality if a currently disqualified person can submit election papers for a near-future elections.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thats because PML N delivered somewhat for Lahore and people of Punjab, unlike PPP who did nothing for Sindh. So if your only two option before were Nawaz Sharif Agar Khata Hai To Lagata Bhi To Hai or aaj bhi Bhutto zinda hai, you cant blame the people for going with PML N.

Now that there is a third party in PTI, people in Punjab gave a chance to them, and PTI has until 2023 to deliver more than PML N. And if they dont than Maryam Bibi will be wazir-e-azam.

Problem is, people are only concerned about their own province. PTI might make fantastic progress in KPK or Balochistan, but if you are living in Punjab, you are only going to be concerned about your own conditions. I know people in my family aren't impressed with their own lot since Imran came to power, but then they are the types who can't see past their own nose.

 

[OMB]

PM lauds military for producing ‘unmatched results’ against adversaries

Country’s defence is impregnable due to professionalism of battle-hardened armed forces, says Imran Khan

Prime Minister Imran Khan has lauded the performance of armed forces of the country, saying that Pakistan Army has produced “unmatched results” when pitched against its adversaries and successfully deterred the nefarious designs of Pakistan’s enemies.

He made these remarks while addressing the participants of staff course at Command and Staff College in Quetta, according to a statement issued by the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Tuesday.

Imran Khan said the country’s defence is impregnable due to professionalism of the battle-hardened armed forces.

Prime Minister Imran Khan addressed participants of staff course at Command and Staff College, Quetta during his Balochistan visit on Tuesday, says #ISPR pic.twitter.com/zpxbfJ36vo
— The Express Tribune (@etribune) JUNE 1, 2021

The military’s media wing said the prime minister deliberated at length upon his vision about future of Pakistan, “where rule of law, across the board accountability and justice are order of the day”.


Establishment of a prosperous state in line with Islamic principles and ideology of our great leaders like Allama Iqbal and Quaid-e-Azam can be achieved only if we work hard consistently as a nation, PM Imran was quoted as saying.

The premier said that his government has made all-out efforts for progress in various sectors like agriculture, industry, technology and automation.

He advised participant officers to pursue their dreams without the fear of failure to achieve their objectives.

On his arrival at the Command and Staff College, Quetta, the prime minister was received by Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa and Commander Quetta Corps Lieutenant General Sarfraz Ali.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2302877/pm-lauds-military-for-producing-unmatched-results-against-adversaries

 

[PetroDollars]

What the military is in Pakistan, is what billionaire capitalists are in the west, same thing, so the west should stop crying, everyone knows they control society and even the media is owned by billionaires.

 

[PakLFC]

When the PM and army are on the same page it is because the army are controlling everything from behind the scenes. When the army remains quiet with a corrupt and dishonest PM they are accused of doing nothing. We should just allow a traitor like Hamid Mir to attack them without reason in the name of "freedom of speech". Lets see him and all army haters go and take a few bullets on the chest for the country.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

When the PM and army are on the same page it is because the army are controlling everything from behind the scenes. When the army remains quiet with a corrupt and dishonest PM they are accused of doing nothing. We should just allow a traitor like Hamid Mir to attack them without reason in the name of "freedom of speech". Lets see him and all army haters go and take a few bullets on the chest for the country.

Why is Hamid Mir a traitor?

Army is now hated by the ordinary Pakistanis for obvious reasons. They ve to face this cult like organization, which is sucking the life blood out of the country. This reminds me of the Mad Max movie.

Have a read:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57241981

 

[King-Misbah]

Why is Hamid Mir a traitor?

Army is now hated by the ordinary Pakistanis for obvious reasons. They ve to face this cult like organization, which is sucking the life blood out of the country. This reminds me of the Mad Max movie.

Have a read:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57241981

Ordinary Pakistanis do not hate the army, actually support them immensely. I dont know what area of Pakistan you have been visiting. Hamid Mir is a nobody and he has realised this now.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Ordinary Pakistanis do not hate the army, actually support them immensely. I dont know what area of Pakistan you have been visiting. Hamid Mir is a nobody and he has realised this now.

Did you read the BBC article above? Its just one example of the Mafia that’s Pakistan army.

They have everything under their boot, be it civilian posts in large Government corporations, Ministeries, Housing sector, Education sector and so on. They are the ones benefitting from Foreign loans and handouts (just go and visit Facilities for armed forces in a poor country like Pakistan)

Do you think ordinary Pakistanis are oblivious to all this?

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

In other news, Sky is blue.

 

[street cricketer]

Always amusing how Pakistanis keep accusing India of indulging in fascism (which is not without merit) but the same guys are the most passionate to defend the fascist elements in their own society.

If there is one eternal rule in the subcontinent that I've learnt over the years, it's that right wing Pakistanis always become left wing liberals with affairs concerning India and right wing Indians become left wing liberals with all affairs concerning Pakistan. It's so ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

 

[Rafa]

If economy improves, Imran Khan will get support from all corners again.

 

[PakLFC]

Why is Hamid Mir a traitor?

Army is now hated by the ordinary Pakistanis for obvious reasons. They ve to face this cult like organization, which is sucking the life blood out of the country. This reminds me of the Mad Max movie.

Have a read:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57241981

Seeing the BBC as an authentic source is really scraping the bottom of the barrel!! The Pak army is loved by hundred's and it is them who safeguard the country. Hamid Mir will say everything against the army to satisfy the enemy of the country. He should go and fight at the border if he is so brave.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Seeing the BBC as an authentic source is really scraping the bottom of the barrel!! The Pak army is loved by hundred's and it is them who safeguard the country. Hamid Mir will say everything against the army to satisfy the enemy of the country. He should go and fight at the border if he is so brave.

So your generic statement are the proof of truth and what BBC (and other media like Aljazeera) is reporting is rubbish?

 

[pakistanisgreat]

So your generic statement are the proof of truth and what BBC (and other media like Aljazeera) is reporting is rubbish?

whoever talk against Army or weakness of Army then entire country call that person or organization a traitor. I do not know why our public think that our army is perfect, they are angels. They can not make mistakes.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Here another example:
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/poli...ruption-scandal-risks-cheesing-top-ally-china

 

[King-Misbah]

Did you read the BBC article above? Its just one example of the Mafia that’s Pakistan army.

They have everything under their boot, be it civilian posts in large Government corporations, Ministeries, Housing sector, Education sector and so on. They are the ones benefitting from Foreign loans and handouts (just go and visit Facilities for armed forces in a poor country like Pakistan)

Do you think ordinary Pakistanis are oblivious to all this?

Do you even know the ground realities in Pakistan? The army has a massive support base in Pakistan.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Do you even know the ground realities in Pakistan? The army has a massive support base in Pakistan.

Yes, i do but you seem to be oblivious of it.

Now dont try to run away from the facts as reported in links above and try creating your own alternative version of the ground reality. What you get to see on Pakistani digital media is tightly controlled by the GHQ command center.

There is another dedicated thread on the topic of Freedom of media in Pakistan but also take a look at this:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/pak...-that-would-punish-criticism-of-the-military/

 

[PakLFC]

whoever talk against Army or weakness of Army then entire country call that person or organization a traitor. I do not know why our public think that our army is perfect, they are angels. They can not make mistakes.

Army may have many miscreants but they are the ones who die for the country. People like you sitting behind a laptop dare not even think of entering the battlefield. Without the army Pak would have been like Iraq, Syria and Yemen today.

 

[PakLFC]

So your generic statement are the proof of truth and what BBC (and other media like Aljazeera) is reporting is rubbish?

Yes the BBC always speaks poorly about Pak army and Pakistan in case it has missed you. Programmes like "Hard talk" and all so called impartial news channels have nothing good to say about Pakistan. We are one of the very few countries in the world who only have condemnation for our own military. Channels like the BBC hardly ever condemn what the British military does abroad.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Army may have many miscreants but they are the ones who die for the country. People like you sitting behind a laptop dare not even think of entering the battlefield. Without the army Pak would have been like Iraq, Syria and Yemen today.

at no point i said they do not die for the country!
just read my post what i said. we should admit when they are wrong because they are no angels.
the funny thing is that all the departments of the country including government gets the criticism except army. What kind of justice is that??

 

[PakLFC]

at no point i said they do not die for the country!
just read my post what i said. we should admit when they are wrong because they are no angels.
the funny thing is that all the departments of the country including government gets the criticism except army. What kind of justice is that??

That is exactly what you are implying by asking why do Pak people consider the army to be angels? This is because they give the ultimate sacrifice for the country by laying down their lives when people like you are watching films on the youtube! Even the government does not have the guts to fight so deserve criticism. Lets see Imran Khan and his son's who are living great lives in London fighting at the border. As I said we may have womanisers and gamblers in the military but this is the case with all armies around the world yet you never see their people accusing them of being imperfect. Let the government and the officials and politicians die for the country then no one will criticise them. Whenever any natural disaster hits Pak it is the military who always comes to the rescue. Hamid Mir can also give his blood for the country before opening his ignorant mouth.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

That is exactly what you are implying by asking why do Pak people consider the army to be angels? This is because they give the ultimate sacrifice for the country by laying down their lives when people like you are watching films on the youtube! Even the government does not have the guts to fight so deserve criticism. Lets see Imran Khan and his son's who are living great lives in London fighting at the border. As I said we may have womanisers and gamblers in the military but this is the case with all armies around the world yet you never see their people accusing them of being imperfect. Let the government and the officials and politicians die for the country then no one will criticise them. Whenever any natural disaster hits Pak it is the military who always comes to the rescue. Hamid Mir can also give his blood for the country before opening his ignorant mouth.

again i never said they do not die and that is not my intention to say.

so you are saying nobody should say anything against army even they are scandals such as Asim salim bajwa pizza shares (Papa johns) and there are many others.
They are not accountable for anything?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Always amusing how Pakistanis keep accusing India of indulging in fascism (which is not without merit) but the same guys are the most passionate to defend the fascist elements in their own society.

If there is one eternal rule in the subcontinent that I've learnt over the years, it's that right wing Pakistanis always become left wing liberals with affairs concerning India and right wing Indians become left wing liberals with all affairs concerning Pakistan. It's so ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

Explain these facist elements? Please look up the defintion of facism first.

 

[PakLFC]

again i never said they do not die and that is not my intention to say.

so you are saying nobody should say anything against army even they are scandals such as Asim salim bajwa pizza shares (Papa johns) and there are many others.
They are not accountable for anything?

They can be questioned only if the government is fair. This is not the case as the moment when the likes of Nawaz Sharif are absconding. Punishment needs to be prioritised as well. The enemies of Pakistan would love for thereto be internal conflict within the Pak fauj and yes those soldiers who die for the country are indeed close to angel's. I know army haters when i see them, stop it!

 

[PakLFC]

It is thanks to the military and ISI that Pak has survived over 20 years of a major war next door. All we do is attack them for one reason or another. Even here on a Pak site I rarely see anyone speaking well about them, it is only indirect criticism disguised as patriotism like Hamid Mir does. I absolutely despise such people and have no respect for them at all. I would refuse to shake the hand of those who hate our military who say we are patriots! Go and fight at the border or shut the hell up!

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

It is thanks to the military and ISI that Pak has survived over 20 years of a major war next door. All we do is attack them for one reason or another. Even here on a Pak site I rarely see anyone speaking well about them, it is only indirect criticism disguised as patriotism like Hamid Mir does. I absolutely despise such people and have no respect for them at all. I would refuse to shake the hand of those who hate our military who say we are patriots! Go and fight at the border or shut the hell up!

Pakistan is in its current dire state because of this army. Since its inception its controlled by the military generals. Go and google Ayub Khan, Yahya khan, Zia Ul haq and so on......

On the other hand this army never won us any wars or armed conflicts. Be it 1965, fall of Dhaka in 1971, Kargil and so on. The majority of deaths caused by Pak army are its own civilians in the name of various “anti-terror” operations. Was it not for the nuclear arsenal, Pakistan’s existence would ve been under threat.

Uppar se this White elephant is draining majority of our limited resources. As a poor country, we would have been BETTER OFF without this army.

 

[Bewal Express]

Pakistan is in its current dire state because of this army. Since its inception its controlled by the military generals. Go and google Ayub Khan, Yahya khan, Zia Ul haq and so on......

On the other hand this army never won us any wars or armed conflicts. Be it 1965, fall of Dhaka in 1971, Kargil and so on. The majority of deaths caused by Pak army are its own civilians in the name of various “anti-terror” operations. Was it not for the nuclear arsenal, Pakistan’s existence would ve been under threat.

Uppar se this White elephant is draining majority of our limited resources. As a poor country, we would have been BETTER OFF without this army.

It's because of the army that PK is still intact. The army have made some howlers and we see the legacy of their mistakes today but let's not pretend that if these mafia families were in total control, PK would exist today. Its the reason PK army is hated so much by our enemies

 

[Extra_Cover]

Pakistan is in its current dire state because of this army. Since its inception its controlled by the military generals. Go and google Ayub Khan, Yahya khan, Zia Ul haq and so on......

On the other hand this army never won us any wars or armed conflicts. Be it 1965, fall of Dhaka in 1971, Kargil and so on. The majority of deaths caused by Pak army are its own civilians in the name of various “anti-terror” operations. Was it not for the nuclear arsenal, Pakistan’s existence would ve been under threat.

Uppar se this White elephant is draining majority of our limited resources. As a poor country, we would have been BETTER OFF without this army.

You are not better off without the army you simply don’t exist as a Pakistani without the army.

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistan is in its current dire state because of this army. Since its inception its controlled by the military generals. Go and google Ayub Khan, Yahya khan, Zia Ul haq and so on......

On the other hand this army never won us any wars or armed conflicts. Be it 1965, fall of Dhaka in 1971, Kargil and so on. The majority of deaths caused by Pak army are its own civilians in the name of various “anti-terror” operations. Was it not for the nuclear arsenal, Pakistan’s existence would ve been under threat.

Uppar se this White elephant is draining majority of our limited resources. As a poor country, we would have been BETTER OFF without this army.

Are you related to Hmaid Mir?? When seasoned military men even from the enemy camp have praised Pak fauj then your naive views do not matter unless you go and fight at the border. As if Google is some truthteller that I should ask them. Do you even know who owns Google? If the politicians were honest and upright the military will not interfere. 71 was the only one we lost mostly due to our own errors where as the rest were draws. It is ungrateful people like you I have a massive problem with sitting behind a laptop talking garbage!

History is all about if's and but's! If there was no Quaid Jinnah then Pak would have not come in to being and you would have been living in Delhi obeying every word of Modi praying we had our own country instead of licking their boots. It is intellectual wannabe's like you accusing the army of everything who are the real problem, it is people like you who vote for corrupt politicians then play both sides of the field with a forked tongue. So the army should just let Nawaz and Zardari loot the country, great wisdom!

Without the military we would be like another Middle Eastern country that India would invade the next day. No we are better off without ungrateful hypocrites like you.

 

[RexRex]

The army has a massive support base in Pakistan.

That is because no criticism of the military is allowed in Pakistan. It is a completely one-sided narrative. With such an environment, of course the army will have a support base. Who is there to question them?

I am certain that majority of Pakistan don't even know to this day about the terrible things their army did in 1971 in East Pakistan. But everyone will have been taught in school how the Pakistan army valiantly 'defended' their land in 1965.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...this-defence-day-please-stop-celebrating-hate

 

[mazkhan]

Are you related to Hmaid Mir?? When seasoned military men even from the enemy camp have praised Pak fauj then your naive views do not matter unless you go and fight at the border. As if Google is some truthteller that I should ask them. Do you even know who owns Google? If the politicians were honest and upright the military will not interfere. 71 was the only one we lost mostly due to our own errors where as the rest were draws. It is ungrateful people like you I have a massive problem with sitting behind a laptop talking garbage!

History is all about if's and but's! If there was no Quaid Jinnah then Pak would have not come in to being and you would have been living in Delhi obeying every word of Modi praying we had our own country instead of licking their boots. It is intellectual wannabe's like you accusing the army of everything who are the real problem, it is people like you who vote for corrupt politicians then play both sides of the field with a forked tongue. So the army should just let Nawaz and Zardari loot the country, great wisdom!

Without the military we would be like another Middle Eastern country that India would invade the next day. No we are better off without ungrateful hypocrites like you.

No one is having a go at the regular soldiers who have been victims of the establishment themselves

The problem is the isi the generals who will sell teh country to foreigners and loot the country the same time as well.

Be it the Afghan jihad
The ill fated campaigns in kashmir which ended up in humiliating withdrawals

East pakistan fiasco

And now this war on terror signed up by our generals

Alongside selling the country on a platter to Chinese cpec and how Chinese are busy looting precious minerals in balochistan like reko diq.

The only reason terrorism is happening in pakustan is because of these generals because they have allowed land and air routes for usa and air route for India.
So no wonder they can arm and train hostile entities against pakistan .

Close the air and land route to Afghanistan for usa and India and watch terrorism dry up.

 

[mazkhan]

If our generals were sincere in liberating kashmir they would be investing in drone technology from Turkey and getting help from Turkey in drone warfare.

We saw how successful this warfare was for azerbaijan against armenia.

And how Turkey used it to devastating effect in libya , and Syria.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

They can be questioned only if the government is fair. This is not the case as the moment when the likes of Nawaz Sharif are absconding. Punishment needs to be prioritised as well. The enemies of Pakistan would love for thereto be internal conflict within the Pak fauj and yes those soldiers who die for the country are indeed close to angel's. I know army haters when i see them, stop it!

let me tell you a story.
My uncle (mamo) recently retired as a lieutenant general. At the time of Musharf he was a brigadier. He was sent to a mission in Karachi. after the six month when the mission was over. musharf gave my uncle 75 million rupees as a reward. I am just wondering how much people below got and how much people above my uncle got.

Question is does my uncle deserve that much reward? may be give him one or 2 million but 75 millions.

so you decide? who gonna audit them? are they accountable for that?
but hypocrite like you still gonna defend them. No wonder we are not going any where as a nation. Even there is no excuse since we have a clean government for last 3 years.

 

[PetroDollars]

Pakistan is a garrison state

Yes the army has saved the country on countless occasions, while on other days has started numerous troubles and war, unneeded for the people but only to keep the grip as a garrison state in tact.

we must support the army but also they should take criticism and people should have the freedom too,

For the people attacking them and how they maintain the country, just remember, The usa and china are also garisson states, we just need to find a way to make it work, like they have.

 

[Napa]

Pakistan is a garrison state

Yes the army has saved the country on countless occasions, while on other days has started numerous troubles and war, unneeded for the people but only to keep the grip as a garrison state in tact.

we must support the army but also they should take criticism and people should have the freedom too,

For the people attacking them and how they maintain the country, just remember, The usa and china are also garisson states, we just need to find a way to make it work, like they have.

What you say is mostly correct. Singapore, China etc. have all been countries where the ruling establishment kept their power by using the Army.

The difference between China and Pakistan is whereas the ruling establishment in China post-Mao (early 1970s) realized that they were falling behind economically and their vast labor pool was going unused, they changed their domestic environment to make investments safe for investors. In Pakistan on the other hand, the vast labor pool is still lying unused, and the ruling establishment shows no movement towards making the domestic environment safe for investors.

Instead you have PM IK going on foreign tours rattling on about how a nuclear war with India is inevitable if India doesn't leave Kashmir, the jihadi organizations regularly rioting on the streets etc. If some organization rioted on the streets in China, their government would hammer them. Nor do the Chinese let their border issues with India escalate beyond a certain point, which is why Chinese smartphone makers dominate the Indian market.

Army control works economically if it produces a domestic environment conducive to capitalism. If it is used by the Army to grab land for retired generals, and continue hostilities with neighbors the country will fail economically.

 

[PetroDollars]

What you say is mostly correct. Singapore, China etc. have all been countries where the ruling establishment kept their power by using the Army.

The difference between China and Pakistan is whereas the ruling establishment in China post-Mao (early 1970s) realized that they were falling behind economically and their vast labor pool was going unused, they changed their domestic environment to make investments safe for investors. In Pakistan on the other hand, the vast labor pool is still lying unused, and the ruling establishment shows no movement towards making the domestic environment safe for investors.

Instead you have PM IK going on foreign tours rattling on about how a nuclear war with India is inevitable if India doesn't leave Kashmir, the jihadi organizations regularly rioting on the streets etc. If some organization rioted on the streets in China, their government would hammer them. Nor do the Chinese let their border issues with India escalate beyond a certain point, which is why Chinese smartphone makers dominate the Indian market.

Army control works economically if it produces a domestic environment conducive to capitalism. If it is used by the Army to grab land for retired generals, and continue hostilities with neighbors the country will fail economically.

What worked in China was that in 2008, the army got kicked out of politics and its businesses were nationalised, in return they have received much more funding, but China took of from here and diversified from manufacturing to other areas.

The problem with pakistans army is that it plays the islam card, which gives power to the street mullahs.

Zia did unprecedented damage to the army, Musharraf tried to fix it but the number of radical generals like hamid gul in the army went beyond the point of no return

 

[King-Misbah]

That is because no criticism of the military is allowed in Pakistan. It is a completely one-sided narrative. With such an environment, of course the army will have a support base. Who is there to question them?

I am certain that majority of Pakistan don't even know to this day about the terrible things their army did in 1971 in East Pakistan. But everyone will have been taught in school how the Pakistan army valiantly 'defended' their land in 1965.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...this-defence-day-please-stop-celebrating-hate

There is a lot of criticism against the army. Just look at Hamid Mir now, this would not happen in India. It just shows that Pakistanis like yourself are naive. For Pakistan to flourish, the army and government need to work together and we are seeing that now. Pakistans strategic location is the reason why the army will always be an important stakeholder.

 

[Napa]

What worked in China was that in 2008, the army got kicked out of politics and its businesses were nationalised, in return they have received much more funding, but China took of from here and diversified from manufacturing to other areas.

The problem with pakistans army is that it plays the islam card, which gives power to the street mullahs.

Zia did unprecedented damage to the army, Musharraf tried to fix it but the number of radical generals like hamid gul in the army went beyond the point of no return

Hasina is doing something similar with the Army. She has given them a lot of money, but that's where their power ends. Having an economy that is growing also allows Hasina to find the money to keep the generals happy.

I can understand that many Pakistanis have sympathy for Kashmiris, but it is something that is just a black hole. All energy and resources that are expended will produce no results, other than giving Pakistan a bad name, making it land of FATF lists and scaring investors away.

Pakistan's best hope is someone like Nawaz, who was more ready than other politicians to try and curb the Army and create business friendly conditions. His critics here allege he stole tens of millions of dollars. Really? Pakistan's GDP is lower by hundreds of billions of dollars every year due to lack of growth of modern industries that Pakistanis are fully capable of running.

 

[King-Misbah]

Hasina is doing something similar with the Army. She has given them a lot of money, but that's where their power ends. Having an economy that is growing also allows Hasina to find the money to keep the generals happy.

I can understand that many Pakistanis have sympathy for Kashmiris, but it is something that is just a black hole. All energy and resources that are expended will produce no results, other than giving Pakistan a bad name, making it land of FATF lists and scaring investors away.

Pakistan's best hope is someone like Nawaz, who was more ready than other politicians to try and curb the Army and create business friendly conditions. His critics here allege he stole tens of millions of dollars. Really? Pakistan's GDP is lower by hundreds of billions of dollars every year due to lack of growth of modern industries that Pakistanis are fully capable of running.

Great solution from you, you know when the Nawaz govt left, there were only $6,7 billions of reserves, a massive account deficit and $10 billion debt was added annually. This all has improved under Khan and the economy is also growing now. Thanks but no thanks. Pakistan will hit close to 6% economic growth next year and we are much more self suffient now. The economy decreased last year due to covid and stabilisation. We will only do better now, Indias economy is set to drop by 7.7% so this puts things into perspective of how well the economy is now being managed by PTI.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Are you related to Hmaid Mir?? When seasoned military men even from the enemy camp have praised Pak fauj then your naive views do not matter unless you go and fight at the border. As if Google is some truthteller that I should ask them. Do you even know who owns Google? If the politicians were honest and upright the military will not interfere. 71 was the only one we lost mostly due to our own errors where as the rest were draws. It is ungrateful people like you I have a massive problem with sitting behind a laptop talking garbage!

History is all about if's and but's! If there was no Quaid Jinnah then Pak would have not come in to being and you would have been living in Delhi obeying every word of Modi praying we had our own country instead of licking their boots. It is intellectual wannabe's like you accusing the army of everything who are the real problem, it is people like you who vote for corrupt politicians then play both sides of the field with a forked tongue. So the army should just let Nawaz and Zardari loot the country, great wisdom!

Without the military we would be like another Middle Eastern country that India would invade the next day. No we are better off without ungrateful hypocrites like you.

I can only laugh at your naivety. Not everyone believes in the propaganda we ve been constantly fed on our state controlled media.

Anyways each to their own.

 

[Napa]

Great solution from you, you know when the Nawaz govt left, there were only $6,7 billions of reserves, a massive account deficit and $10 billion debt was added annually. This all has improved under Khan and the economy is also growing now. Thanks but no thanks. Pakistan will hit close to 6% economic growth next year and we are much more self suffient now. The economy decreased last year due to covid and stabilisation. We will only do better now, Indias economy is set to drop by 7.7% so this puts things into perspective of how well the economy is now being managed by PTI.

You are quite delusional. All this talk about 6% growth etc. is meaningless till you consider where the growth is coming from. Is it coming from the development of modern industries? The answer is no.

The current account deficit has decreased due to devaluation of the PKR which has also resulted in high inflation. A country can always decrease its current account deficit by devaluation so that imports are reduced and some cost advantage is given to domestic manufacturers. However, as modern industries are not being developed the economy will remain stuck producing textiles and soccer balls for exports.

NS left the country with a large debt, that is true. But he was never allowed to control the country, specifically the Army told him that foreign policy was off limits to him, so he could never improve relations with India which was essential to improve the business environment and attract Western foreign investment.

Not sure why you are bringing India into this discussion. All these growth rates which are influenced by the pandemic are useless, they will bounce up and down. What is important is the growth of modern industries, and that requires FDI.

India:

"FDI inflow showed positive growth of 24 per cent in the month of December, 2020 (US$ 9.22 billion) compared to December, 2019 (US$ 7.46 billion)."
https://www.business-standard.com/a...surges-22-to-67-5-billion-121030400764_1.html

Pakistan:

Foreign direct investment (FDI) dropped almost 61% to $193.6 million in December 2020 compared to $493 million in December 2019.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2280475/fdi-falls-61-to-1936m-in-december-2020

You are comparing a country receiving FDI of $9.22B with one receiving $0.1936B. Also, a lot of FDI Pakistan gets is from CEPC, which is not investment in production that can be exported but rather purchase of Chinese infrastructure.

Don't indulge in wishful thinking. It is your country, you need to be pragmatic.

 

[King-Misbah]

You are quite delusional. All this talk about 6% growth etc. is meaningless till you consider where the growth is coming from. Is it coming from the development of modern industries? The answer is no.

The current account deficit has decreased due to devaluation of the PKR which has also resulted in high inflation. A country can always decrease its current account deficit by devaluation so that imports are reduced and some cost advantage is given to domestic manufacturers. However, as modern industries are not being developed the economy will remain stuck producing textiles and soccer balls for exports.

NS left the country with a large debt, that is true. But he was never allowed to control the country, specifically the Army told him that foreign policy was off limits to him, so he could never improve relations with India which was essential to improve the business environment and attract Western foreign investment.

Not sure why you are bringing India into this discussion. All these growth rates which are influenced by the pandemic are useless, they will bounce up and down. What is important is the growth of modern industries, and that requires FDI.

India:



Pakistan:



You are comparing a country receiving FDI of $9.22B with one receiving $0.1936B. Also, a lot of FDI Pakistan gets is from CEPC, which is not investment in production that can be exported but rather purchase of Chinese infrastructure.

Don't indulge in wishful thinking. It is your country, you need to be pragmatic.

Your post is delusional because Pakistan will eventually get FDI and there is nothing wrong in attaining 6% without FDI. Plus, there is a process to have modern industries, it won't happen over night. Yet again, IT exports have surged and should be around $5 Billion in 2023. The government is currently focusing on manufacturing, agriculture and construction, there is a lot of scope in these for Pakistan. Plus, with the next stage of CPEC, there will be economic zones created, further manufacturing and job creation. Pakistan is now going places and it has always funny to see Indians back Nawaz Sharif. We understand that you value his as an asset. Nawaz is pro, against Pakistani army depending on his own interests so India shouldn't really pin their hopes on this horse. Nawaz destroyed our economy, how much did he increase exports by? Do you know? In 5 years by zilch? He burned away our foreign reserves and as a result the poor suffered due to the IMF conditions on the loan. Where was the FDI during Nawaz era? You can't not always blame the army and not your blue eyed boy.

 

[Last Monetarist]

What you say is mostly correct. Singapore, China etc. have all been countries where the ruling establishment kept their power by using the Army.

The difference between China and Pakistan is whereas the ruling establishment in China post-Mao (early 1970s) realized that they were falling behind economically and their vast labor pool was going unused, they changed their domestic environment to make investments safe for investors. In Pakistan on the other hand, the vast labor pool is still lying unused, and the ruling establishment shows no movement towards making the domestic environment safe for investors.

Instead you have PM IK going on foreign tours rattling on about how a nuclear war with India is inevitable if India doesn't leave Kashmir, the jihadi organizations regularly rioting on the streets etc. If some organization rioted on the streets in China, their government would hammer them. Nor do the Chinese let their border issues with India escalate beyond a certain point, which is why Chinese smartphone makers dominate the Indian market.

Both China and Pakistan are repressive societies, but the former has mastered it to an art form whereby young children are brainwashed and educated in a manner such that they are conditioned to believe in the moral and absolute superiority of the state. Even if someone distrusts the government, there is too much fear to revolt. Intellectuals and independent thinkers are routinely arrested and sent to concentration camps.

In Pakistan, the difference is that children are conditioned differently and the state (including the military) holds nowhere near the influence that the CCP exerts in China.

In terms of market reforms, China is still a closed shop for investors. The only investors that thrive are those with intricate linkages with state-owned enterprises and have a thorough understanding of crony capitalism. Furthermore, the initial wealth was based on having an industrial base that allowed them to produce materials and goods for the west. Pakistan can never dream of replicating that export-oriented model.

 

[Napa]

Both China and Pakistan are repressive societies, but the former has mastered it to an art form whereby young children are brainwashed and educated in a manner such that they are conditioned to believe in the moral and absolute superiority of the state. Even if someone distrusts the government, there is too much fear to revolt. Intellectuals and independent thinkers are routinely arrested and sent to concentration camps.

In Pakistan, the difference is that children are conditioned differently and the state (including the military) holds nowhere near the influence that the CCP exerts in China.

I agree that Chinese kids are brainwashed intensely, and Pakistani kids do have more access to information. There is a lot of criticism of the Pakistani establishment that gets published in the Pakistani media.

In terms of market reforms, China is still a closed shop for investors. The only investors that thrive are those with intricate linkages with state-owned enterprises and have a thorough understanding of crony capitalism.

China giveth till China taketh away, as Tesla is finding out. China will let Western firms into its market, but at some point will favor its own firms that compete with the Western firms.

Furthermore, the initial wealth was based on having an industrial base that allowed them to produce materials and goods for the west. Pakistan can never dream of replicating that export-oriented model.

While China has the lead, Western multinationals are starting to move their production to other countries like Vietnam. While Pakistan may not get to China's level, it can get a share of Western FDI. That is pretty much the only feasible way to utilize Pakistan's rich human talent pool.

 

[mazkhan]

In pakistan the mindset is different

It's one of a beggar and making people believe they are useless .

I.e only option is to beg for aid at state level
And society level beg for aid from remittances abroad or just grow up believing you have to move abroad middle east, the west to earn money so you can send money back built a kotee , buy your family a saloon and get your ugly sisters married off which requires money this is mindset of pakistan society its all negative and self defeatist attitude . Too proud to graft in one's own land but go abroad and get treated worse than a dog by arabs abd Europeans doing menial jobs

 

[Napa]

Your post is delusional because Pakistan will eventually get FDI and there is nothing wrong in attaining 6% without FDI. Plus, there is a process to have modern industries, it won't happen over night. Yet again, IT exports have surged and should be around $5 Billion in 2023.

Yeah, that's what IK fans keep saying "the future is going to be better". It has already been about 3 years since IK came to power. Things are not getting better, Pakistan "eventually" won't get FDI with current trends, FDI has gone backwards.

The government is currently focusing on manufacturing, agriculture and construction, there is a lot of scope in these for Pakistan.

These are all mature industries and will not make the country wealthier. The government is focussing on them because it is incapable of developing modern industries.

Plus, with the next stage of CPEC, there will be economic zones created, further manufacturing and job creation.

If you think China is benevolent and will move manufacturing to Pakistan instead of using its own labor at home, good luck to you.

Pakistan is now going places and it has always funny to see Indians back Nawaz Sharif. We understand that you value his as an asset. Nawaz is pro, against Pakistani army depending on his own interests so India shouldn't really pin their hopes on this horse. Nawaz destroyed our economy, how much did he increase exports by? Do you know? In 5 years by zilch? He burned away our foreign reserves and as a result the poor suffered due to the IMF conditions on the loan. Where was the FDI during Nawaz era? You can't not always blame the army and not your blue eyed boy.

NS never had the power to make the necessary changes. As soon as he started making changes, IK started his street protests leading to a weakening of NS's political position and he being forced to agree to the Army's demand that foreign policy was off limits to him.

Without a civilian leader like Hasina who will curb the Army and make the economic environment friendly for FDI, Pakistan will not progress. If you have a civilian leader other than NS who will do this, then support him. IK isn't that leader.

It's your country, you need to find real solutions. No more replies.

 

[PetroDollars]

Hasina is doing something similar with the Army. She has given them a lot of money, but that's where their power ends. Having an economy that is growing also allows Hasina to find the money to keep the generals happy.

I can understand that many Pakistanis have sympathy for Kashmiris, but it is something that is just a black hole. All energy and resources that are expended will produce no results, other than giving Pakistan a bad name, making it land of FATF lists and scaring investors away.

Pakistan's best hope is someone like Nawaz, who was more ready than other politicians to try and curb the Army and create business friendly conditions. His critics here allege he stole tens of millions of dollars. Really? Pakistan's GDP is lower by hundreds of billions of dollars every year due to lack of growth of modern industries that Pakistanis are fully capable of running.

NS has been PM 3 times and served under a military dictator, what makes you think he will curb the army, on the other hand, the only other politician who spent most of his political career telling pakistanis about the threat of the army and how its power must be curbed is now sitting as PM and making the army in politics even more powerful.

If there was a party against the army its PPP and even they have done nothing when in power.

 

[Napa]

NS has been PM 3 times and served under a military dictator, what makes you think he will curb the army, on the other hand, the only other politician who spent most of his political career telling pakistanis about the threat of the army and how its power must be curbed is now sitting as PM and making the army in politics even more powerful.

If there was a party against the army its PPP and even they have done nothing when in power.

I agree that none of the leaders at present looks good in you consider his or her entire record. I hope there will be a new generation that will do what is necessary to curb the Army's influence and take the country forward.

 

[KB]

NS never had the power to make the necessary changes. As soon as he started making changes, IK started his street protests leading to a weakening of NS's political position and he being forced to agree to the Army's demand that foreign policy was off limits to him.

The military was certainly a problem for Nawaz Sharif, but this depiction of Sharif as a hapless victim represents an inept understanding of Pakistani politics and seriously underestimates the damaging leadership style of Sharif.

The calling card of PML-N is ‘service delivery’ - the ability to get things done locally (for example the provision of reliable supply of water and electricity or laying of a sewage lines) as well as flashy infrastructure development programmes. Where Nawaz Sharif and Shahbaz Sharif excelled was in their control of the bureaucracy. They handpicked their favourites, adopted a micromanagement style, and made tough demands of officials. (In this respect, we might speculate that the family’s business background helped sensitise them to the importance of the bureaucracy and having it on its side.)

On the other side is Sharif’s dictatorial leadership style. There is excessive self-belief and an arrogance of power. There is a reliance on centralised decision making by the so-called ‘kitchen cabinet’ and an obsession with bolstering personal power. These were on display in his previous terms as Prime Minster and re-appeared in his third term. In the words of Sartaj Aziz:

“He has a strong belief … in the importance of his personal power. He therefore ran the government on his terms through a system of personalised decision-making, without adequate consultations or participation of his cabinet colleagues, the parliament or other relevant bodies … This desire to strengthen his personal power base rather than strengthen the institutions that are the main pillars of a viable democratic process, eventually led to his dramatic downfall.”

Damaging too his is inability to build a consensus across political parties and his attitude, in the words of Pakistani academic, Saeed Shafqat, of wanting to “go it alone.” He lacks the wily skills required to build a parliamentary consensus. His tendency to shun the National Assembly was indicative of his distant and undemocratic manner as leader.

The comparison with the Zardari years (2008-13) is instructive. When it comes to service delivery, the PML-N were streets ahead. The Zardari years were also marked by poor governance, widespread corruption, frequent ‘load-shedding’ and high unemployment. But what Zardari was able to do was to build a parliamentary consensus and he was at least able to secure the passage of around 100 bills, including most importantly the 18th constitutional amendment, which circumscribed the power of the President and bolstered that of the provinces.

The military may be a thorn in the side of the PML-N, but that should not blind us to Sharif’s ruinous character traits.

 

[Napa]

The military was certainly a problem for Nawaz Sharif, but this depiction of Sharif as a hapless victim represents an inept understanding of Pakistani politics and seriously underestimates the damaging leadership style of Sharif.

The calling card of PML-N is ‘service delivery’ - the ability to get things done locally (for example the provision of reliable supply of water and electricity or laying of a sewage lines) as well as flashy infrastructure development programmes. Where Nawaz Sharif and Shahbaz Sharif excelled was in their control of the bureaucracy. They handpicked their favourites, adopted a micromanagement style, and made tough demands of officials. (In this respect, we might speculate that the family’s business background helped sensitise them to the importance of the bureaucracy and having it on its side.)

On the other side is Sharif’s dictatorial leadership style. There is excessive self-belief and an arrogance of power. There is a reliance on centralised decision making by the so-called ‘kitchen cabinet’ and an obsession with bolstering personal power. These were on display in his previous terms as Prime Minster and re-appeared in his third term. In the words of Sartaj Aziz:

“He has a strong belief … in the importance of his personal power. He therefore ran the government on his terms through a system of personalised decision-making, without adequate consultations or participation of his cabinet colleagues, the parliament or other relevant bodies … This desire to strengthen his personal power base rather than strengthen the institutions that are the main pillars of a viable democratic process, eventually led to his dramatic downfall.”

Damaging too his is inability to build a consensus across political parties and his attitude, in the words of Pakistani academic, Saeed Shafqat, of wanting to “go it alone.” He lacks the wily skills required to build a parliamentary consensus. His tendency to shun the National Assembly was indicative of his distant and undemocratic manner as leader.

The comparison with the Zardari years (2008-13) is instructive. When it comes to service delivery, the PML-N were streets ahead. The Zardari years were also marked by poor governance, widespread corruption, frequent ‘load-shedding’ and high unemployment. But what Zardari was able to do was to build a parliamentary consensus and he was at least able to secure the passage of around 100 bills, including most importantly the 18th constitutional amendment, which circumscribed the power of the President and bolstered that of the provinces.

The military may be a thorn in the side of the PML-N, but that should not blind us to Sharif’s ruinous character traits.

You missed the point. By no means am I saying that NS was perfect. All I am saying is that he is the best civilian PM Pakistan has ever had. What is the competition?

Liaquat Khan? Generally caused chaos and got assassinated.

Bhutto? Socialism and nationalization. Major cause of the 1971 war by scheming to overturn the results of an election.

Benazir? Incompetent and too weak to take on the Army.

Zardari? Mr. 10% and also too weak to take on the Army.

The faults of NS that you point out are true, but viewed with respect to the alternatives he was the best available.

"Where Nawaz Sharif and Shahbaz Sharif excelled was in their control of the bureaucracy. They handpicked their favourites, adopted a micromanagement style, and made tough demands of officials." These are not all bad, for a PM trying to make changes to the economic environment these may help.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That is because no criticism of the military is allowed in Pakistan. It is a completely one-sided narrative. With such an environment, of course the army will have a support base. Who is there to question them?

Wrong. Army is criticized all the time in Pakistan. The term used by Pakistanis to critize the Army is the "Establishment". Everyone from the PHD to the chaprasi knows who the "Establishment" is referring to.

I am certain that majority of Pakistan don't even know to this day about the terrible things their army did in 1971 in East Pakistan. But everyone will have been taught in school how the Pakistan army valiantly 'defended' their land in 1965.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...this-defence-day-please-stop-celebrating-hate

Wrong again. Its common knowledge. Pakistan has apologized repeatedly.

On the other hand how many Indians know about Operation Polo, and how many Hyderabdai Muslims India killed? Probably not many in my opinion.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Why is Hamid Mir a traitor?

Army is now hated by the ordinary Pakistanis for obvious reasons. They ve to face this cult like organization, which is sucking the life blood out of the country. This reminds me of the Mad Max movie.

Have a read:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57241981

Majority of Army soldiers are not officers, let alone generals. They are poor when they the enter the Army, and they are poor when they leave. The people of Pakistan have much love for the Jawans who sacrifse for the country.


Who the ordinary Pakistanis dislike are the generals and other elite officers. They also dislike the politicians, senior bureaucracy, rich businessman, judiciary, etc. Note the pattern. Its the elite who they dislike.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It's because of the army that PK is still intact. The army have made some howlers and we see the legacy of their mistakes today but let's not pretend that if these mafia families were in total control, PK would exist today. Its the reason PK army is hated so much by our enemies

The mafia families were created by the Army, either directly (PML N) or indirectly (PPP).

However after 3 dictators left in disgrace, and one died in disgrace, i dont think any Army general will ever do a direct coup again.

 

[Napa]

Majority of Army soldiers are not officers, let alone generals. They are poor when they the enter the Army, and they are poor when they leave. The people of Pakistan have much love for the Jawans who sacrifse for the country.


Who the ordinary Pakistanis dislike are the generals and other elite officers. They also dislike the politicians, senior bureaucracy, rich businessman, judiciary, etc. Note the pattern. Its the elite who they dislike.

The best hope for the poor people is that the economy is freed from the shackles of the the elites. That is the only hope they have.

India used to have 51% of its population below the poverty line after 35 years of Nehru-Gandhi socialism. The poverty level only started falling with economic liberalization.

Pakistan needs to create conditions conducive for FDI.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

let me tell you a story.
My uncle (mamo) recently retired as a lieutenant general. At the time of Musharf he was a brigadier. He was sent to a mission in Karachi. after the six month when the mission was over. musharf gave my uncle 75 million rupees as a reward. I am just wondering how much people below got and how much people above my uncle got.

Question is does my uncle deserve that much reward? may be give him one or 2 million but 75 millions.

so you decide? who gonna audit them? are they accountable for that?
but hypocrite like you still gonna defend them. No wonder we are not going any where as a nation. Even there is no excuse since we have a clean government for last 3 years.

The military is a reflection of Pakistan society, It does not come from Mars, or Switzerland.

A country where the bureaucracy, judiciary, media, politicians, mullahs, businessman, are corrupt, will also have a corrupt military.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What worked in China was that in 2008, the army got kicked out of politics and its businesses were nationalised, in return they have received much more funding, but China took of from here and diversified from manufacturing to other areas.

The problem with pakistans army is that it plays the islam card, which gives power to the street mullahs.

Zia did unprecedented damage to the army, Musharraf tried to fix it but the number of radical generals like hamid gul in the army went beyond the point of no return

Yet 3 of the 4 dictators were secular.

The one dictator who played the Islam card, did so in an environment where Bhutto had banned alcohol for Muslims, closed nightclubs, declared Ahmadis non Muslim. He took Bhutto's appeasement to the next level.

Politicians play the Islam card far more than the Army. Look at what happened when IK tried to appoint Atif Mian to the economic council. Every party including the liberal ones played politicians cause he was an Ahmadi.

If anything the Army generals can be more liberal as they dont have to answer to the public.

 

[Bewal Express]

The mafia families were created by the Army, either directly (PML N) or indirectly (PPP).

However after 3 dictators left in disgrace, and one died in disgrace, i dont think any Army general will ever do a direct coup again.

Hence the mistakes but if you think that PK wouldn't have had mafia families organically created then you don't know how the Wadera system works.

 

[PetroDollars]

The mafia families were created by the Army, either directly (PML N) or indirectly (PPP).

However after 3 dictators left in disgrace, and one died in disgrace, i dont think any Army general will ever do a direct coup again.

They dont need to, but most people dont realise and something that the media in pakistan is not allowed to talk about is that during Zias era, new laws were passed which give the army veto powers over civilian gov.
foreign affairs is something that is already under complete controll of the army.

The only reason musharraf came to power despite army having all the power over cilivians is because NS tried to kill him in the air.

So to answer you, no there will not be a direct coup - not because any army general will not think about it, but because they dont need to as they already run the country, that is ofcourse unless some civilian gov. tries to attack the army and take its powers away like NS did to mush.

 

[PetroDollars]

Yet 3 of the 4 dictators were secular.

The one dictator who played the Islam card, did so in an environment where Bhutto had banned alcohol for Muslims, closed nightclubs, declared Ahmadis non Muslim. He took Bhutto's appeasement to the next level.

Politicians play the Islam card far more than the Army. Look at what happened when IK tried to appoint Atif Mian to the economic council. Every party including the liberal ones played politicians cause he was an Ahmadi.

If anything the Army generals can be more liberal as they dont have to answer to the public.

...and there are many that belive it was the army behind those protests against Atif Mian.

its not even about being liberal or secular, its about how you control the perception in the country and army being secular uses islam to do that, not because they belive in these islamic parties but because the public does and thats how they take controll.

 

[PakLFC]

I can only laugh at your naivety. Not everyone believes in the propaganda we ve been constantly fed on our state controlled media.

Anyways each to their own.

These people die for the country when we are watching Cricket matches. So if supporting the military is "propaganda" then so be it. I call it patriotism defending the men who do so the country. I don't need such press freedom where the defenders of the country are belittled and humiliated. I tell you it is so rare to see other countries abuse their military like us Pakistanis do.

 

[PakLFC]

No one is having a go at the regular soldiers who have been victims of the establishment themselves

The problem is the isi the generals who will sell teh country to foreigners and loot the country the same time as well.

Be it the Afghan jihad
The ill fated campaigns in kashmir which ended up in humiliating withdrawals

East pakistan fiasco

And now this war on terror signed up by our generals

Alongside selling the country on a platter to Chinese cpec and how Chinese are busy looting precious minerals in balochistan like reko diq.

The only reason terrorism is happening in pakustan is because of these generals because they have allowed land and air routes for usa and air route for India.
So no wonder they can arm and train hostile entities against pakistan .

Close the air and land route to Afghanistan for usa and India and watch terrorism dry up.

I see then hang the generals only if the leaders themselves are honest. I know the general's are womanisers and all that, this would also be the case in other countries but they do not attack the entire institution on the basis of a few bad apples.

So critics of the army need to see the difference between the general's and regular soldiers. It was the government that supported America's WOT after 9/11 so why then blame the "military"? Close all these madrassas spewing hate first and foremost then stop this "Ummat" rubbish that never was. The military is not responsible for who is looting what if the likes of Imran Khan turn a blind eye.

Terrorism in Pak is due to so many so called Islamic groups preaching hate even against our own non Muslims much more then the military is responsible then why does IK not ban them?

 

[PakLFC]

You people have no idea what the American and British militaries do in countries and continents like Africa. From looting poor people, beating them up and raping poor ladies it all happens there. We hardly ever see the American or British media exposing them and if a few reports do come forth they are quietly brushed aside or we are told the necessary action was taken. America says we will never apologise what their military does abroad even if the horrifying pictures of Abu Ghraib prison stares at them.

On the other hand our freedom loving and angel Pakistanis see nothing good in our military who have been in a permanent state of war since 9/11 dying in thousands to protect ungrateful people who don't deserve it. Go and fight yourselves then taking all the money given to you by corrupt general's. By hating on the military you are all doing what the enemy wants.

 

[Bewal Express]

PK army is thr only institution that has held PK together. Without them there would be no PK, just feudels from Punjab and Sindh at war.

 

[Napa]

its not even about being liberal or secular, its about how you control the perception in the country and army being secular uses islam to do that, not because they belive in these islamic parties but because the public does and thats how they take controll.

You nailed it.

 

[Mamoon]

PK army is thr only institution that has held PK together. Without them there would be no PK, just feudels from Punjab and Sindh at war.

Who lost East Pakistan?

Pakistan has not been held together. It was broken into two pieces 50 years ago.

 

[Bewal Express]

Who lost East Pakistan?

Pakistan has not been held together. It was broken into two pieces 50 years ago.

It wasnt just the army, ZAB was lost the election and didnt want the Bengalis. Its interesting that you try to rewrite history to suit a silly agenda. The army has made some howlers, and the PPP was one and the crooked Sharifs being the other. They were all in it together.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Pakistani_general_election

 

[Mamoon]

It wasnt just the army, ZAB was lost the election and didnt want the Bengalis. Its interesting that you try to rewrite history to suit a silly agenda. The army has made some howlers, and the PPP was one and the crooked Sharifs being the other. They were all in it together.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Pakistani_general_election

Read my question, again. There is a clue there.

Who “lost” East Pakistan? It is not a difficult question, nor is it rhetorical.

The government of Pakistan deployed thousands of soldiers in East Pakistan to resist the liberation movement and maintain control in the region.

What did they achieve? Nothing. They committed human rights violations against Bengali freedom fighters and got smashed by India, ultimately accepting the humiliating defeat and signing the instrument of surrender.

While we gloat over one Abhinandan, India took thousands of Pakistani Abhinandans in 1971 and they were not forced to hand them back to Pakistan within 24 hours.

It is hysterical and ironic that the institution that was tasked with keeping East Pakistan, and failed badly at their task, is now being credited for keeping Pakistan together.

 

[Bewal Express]

Read my question, again. There is a clue there.

Who “lost” East Pakistan? It is not a difficult question, nor is it rhetorical.

The government of Pakistan deployed thousands of soldiers in East Pakistan to resist the liberation movement and maintain control in the region.

What did they achieve? Nothing. They committed human rights violations against Bengali freedom fighters and got smashed by India, ultimately accepting the humiliating defeat and signing the instrument of surrender.

While we gloat over one Abhinandan, India took thousands of Pakistani Abhinandans in 1971 and they were not forced to hand them back to Pakistan within 24 hours.

It is hysterical and ironic that the institution that was tasked with keeping East Pakistan, and failed badly at their task, is now being credited for keeping Pakistan together.

Why dont you ask why? What was ZABS role? or does that not fit in with your narrative.

 

[Napa]

Why dont you ask why? What was ZABS role? or does that not fit in with your narrative.

You started off by claiming the Army is what kept Pakistan together. Now you are saying that both the Army and ZAB are responsible for Pakistan breaking into two pieces.

 

[Bewal Express]

You started off by claiming the Army is what kept Pakistan together. Now you are saying that both the Army and ZAB are responsible for Pakistan breaking into two pieces.

The army has kept PK together, the Western Part together, i am not sure why you are getting excited, we created PK from India, and you were too weak to do anything about it.

 

[Napa]

The army has kept PK together, the Western Part together, i am not sure why you are getting excited, we created PK from India, and you were too weak to do anything about it.

Nice attempt at a diversion after making an indefensible statement that the Army kept Pakistan together.

No more replies.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The army has kept PK together, the Western Part together, i am not sure why you are getting excited, we created PK from India, and you were too weak to do anything about it.

The British parliament created Pakistan from British India. Not you.

Indian Army created Bangladesh.

 

[Bewal Express]

The British parliament created Pakistan from British India. Not you.

Indian Army created Bangladesh.

Mountbatten was your lackey and we still created PK.

 

[Bewal Express]

Nice attempt at a diversion after making an indefensible statement that the Army kept Pakistan together.

No more replies.

It must pain you but we against your desperate attempts created PK. Look at your pathetic attempts to hold on to Kashmir, when the people hate you with all their soul

 

[PakLFC]

Those who cry over the Pak military budget take a good look at America, British and India expenditure. We spend nothing compared to all these countries. See sense that we are forced to spend to safeguard our country.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Those who cry over the Pak military budget take a good look at America, British and India expenditure. We spend nothing compared to all these countries. See sense that we are forced to spend to safeguard our country.

Those armies are doing their actual job of defending their countries, whereas Pakistani army is killing its own civilians and meddling in civilian affairs, manipulating the democratic process. As i said before, it has never won us a single war against another army.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

The army has kept PK together, the Western Part together, i am not sure why you are getting excited, we created PK from India, and you were too weak to do anything about it.

Pak army has broken Pakistan in 1971 and is not doing much better in the remaining provinces of Sindh and Balochistan.

Indian spy and sabotage activities aside, its the corruption, nepotism and injustice thats prevelant in Pakistan, which is fanning the anti-national sentiments of Sindhu-deh and Balochistan liberation front. Remember that we are not a nation state and dont have a homogeneous ethnic population. So Punjab based army overwhelmingly all other provinces does not and will not go down well in the longer run.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

https://www.dawn.com/news/771044/pakistan-military-guilty-of-abuses-alleges-amnesty

 

[cricketjoshila]

Mountbatten was your lackey and we still created PK.

Lol. The British vassal was Jinnah who requested them for Pakistan.

But India created Bangladesh out of Pakistan.