Report does not reflect increase in corruption: Transparency International [Update Post #182]

[Mamoon]

Is anyone willing to answer the three questions I asked?

 

[Mamoon]

So is TI biased or not?

Are they on Noora payroll or not?

 

[Bewal Express]

Is anyone willing to answer the three questions I asked?

So a guy that is humiliated on a daily basis is asking questions. Why don't you try answering some 1st. For a start go back to Abdullahs questions, and answer mine.

 

[Mian]

Nooras and the daily dose of humiliation )

 

[Mamoon]

So a guy that is humiliated on a daily basis is asking questions. Why don't you try answering some 1st. For a start go back to Abdullahs questions, and answer mine.

Is TI biased or not? Is it on Noora payroll or not?

Can you answer these questions without dancing?

 

[Knight_Rider]

Look at all the recruits in Imran Khan’s cabinet. Same faces that were there in Musharaf’s time. PTI has no grass roots but still sitting in government. Ppl like Jahangeer Tareen and Chaudhary Sarwar are in there to recoup their investments. Rest are all opportunists like Shaikh Rasheed, Aamir Liaqut and Fawad Chaudhary.

If it still isn’t obvious, then it will never be!

But hey, dont expect any logical answer from the PTI cult followers.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

So is TI biased or not?

Are they on Noora payroll or not?

Without getting into a political debate , I'll take this one. Literally everything is biased , everything can be bought or gamed with money or the right kind of motivation if you have the means or the money .This is the sad truth of the world we live in . Even if the whole organization is not meant to be corrupt all it takes is a few people in important positions to be corrupted. Olympics, BBC, CNN,FOX News, Iraq war are all just symptoms of this . Russia has mastered this well ; US elections , Brexit . So yea do your own research and make your own damn mind .

 

[MenInG]

Those wishing to keep on posting forums may want to make sure they dont post personal insults.

 

[Bewal Express]

Is TI biased or not? Is it on Noora payroll or not?

Can you answer these questions without dancing?

The only person dancing yesterday was you. You have claimed for years that Corruption isn't a problem mainly because you are a beneficiary. Yesterday that went out of the Window and you thanked the TI, only for you to face your usual humiliation. If the TI report had given full context you would have been saved from your usual humiliation and the public would be have been given a proper picture. The TI has at its head a crook who works for NS, that is not me saying that is the PPP saying it. How can an organisation like TI have such a crook as its head, its a bit like NAB having a sexual predator appointed by NS and AZ at its head! Lol
The bigger picture is that we are a very corrupt country and although IK is clean, these figures are awful and the country is being destroyed by this cancer. IK needs to scrap NAB, through whatever means, appoint a Head who is is passionate stopping the corruption, and not a guy like this crooked budha or Kiyani before him. He needs to keep a close eye on people in the govt because there will be crooks in the govt because the political culture is such.
So please answer Abdullah question.

 

[uberkoen]

Some of the posts I see on here are beyond stupid.

1. The data set used for TI 2019 reports is not from the past 2 years. For them to report on a country they use 13 resources. Out of these 13 resources a country should have had a report form at least 3 in the past 2 years for TI to consider them in their report.

2. Of the reports used for Pakistan, BTI report was from 2018 as BTI only produces a report every 2 years. BTI rating is not based on old data. BTI uses a time series analysis which means they have to look at historic data and how certain metrics have changed which is why they are using data from 2015. However, the rating of the report is based on, on average, how those metrics have evolved over the past few years and where they stand now.

3. The news report from ARY only focused on BTI because it fulfilled their agenda and mislead ill informed people as the data and has not focused on any of the other reports. The TI rating in Pakistan is based on 8 reports out of these 8 reports 2 have said corruption has increased while all others have said things have remained the same. Why not focus on the fact that things have gone worse or stayed the same and nothing has improved. Fighting corruption has been the number one item on the agenda of PTI and we see that independent bodies have stated that either things have gotten worse or stayed the same and PTI has done absolutely nothing to fight corruption in the country.

4. People have started questioning about the MD of TI in Pakistan and how he is an employee of PML-N. This is beyond stupid. Firstly, this is not true and is more propaganda from PTI. Secondly, even if it was true he does not have control over the TI ratings. There is a clear methodology for the ratings which is based on the reporting of 8 other studies. Are the MD's of all these 8 independent bodies also employees of Nawaz Sharif?

5. People have started saying that TI is biased. Which is again stupid because as mentioned above TI is basing their ratings on 13 different studies and a clear methodology. They cannot just give countries random numbers. Are all the 13 bodies (or 8 in case of Pakistan) also biased? How come everyone is biased against PTI? Is everyone on PMLN payroll?

Please stop with the silliness and this stupid conspiracy theories. We need to accept the fact that things are getting worse and at the least not improving under PTI. People have said here that we should wait 5 years before judging them on anything. This doesn't make sense either but what plans are in place to stop or reduce corruption in Pakistan? What programs has the government introduced that will lead to a decrease in corruption in 5 years? There is nothing. In fact, from the recent wheat and sugar crises we see that the exact opposite is happening and close allies of the sitting government are being helped.

 

[uberkoen]

Another point I forgot to address above was how people on here are saying the we are now ranked lower on CPI because more cases of corruption are being reported now. This is rather silly, so countries which report more corruption cases and prosecute people who are involved in more corruption are considered to be more corrupt? This is definitely not the case and I've briefly addressed this topic earlier as well. Moreover, let's not forget most cases against PML(N) and PPP leadership were not initiated during PTI government but these old cases were brought against each others by previous governments.

 

[Mamoon]

Excellent insight, uberkoen.

Thank you Transparency International for exposing PTI’s corruption. There is no doubt that they are deeply engulfed in corruption and have fooled the masses with their fake tabdeeli.

People can hide behind certain technicalities for now, but in due time everything will be clear and this fake party and its supporters will have nowhere to hide.
[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

My answer to Abdullah’s question is what you would expect - I firmly believe that PTI is extremely corrupt and their corruption cannot be swept under the carpet for long.

The notion that Imran himself is honest has to be questioned because he is not coming clean.

Has been running from the foreign funding case for years and is demanding secrecy in investigations. Yesterday, he approached the SC to challenge ECP’s jurisdiction in the foreign funding case.

He is hiding behind court stay orders, something that he used to criticize in the past when his opponents would do the same.

No honest man hides behind stay orders and demands secrecy in investigations if he has nothing to hide.

As an administrator he has been a miserable failure. PTI failed in KP and are now failing at the federal level, and when it comes to strategic decisions and foreign policy, they are taking dictations from the boots.

So far, his legacy as a PM has been the following:

- shameless U-turn on traitor Musharraf’s treason case

- shameless U-turn on COAS extension

- couldn’t do anything when Nawaz Sharif made a deal with his bosses and walked out of jail without paying a penny

- corruption has increased on his watch and his dumb economic policies have made life miserable for the poor who are cursing him. He is rapidly losing the support of the common man.

Pretty soon, the only supporters who would be left are overseas, armchair Insaafians who actually benefit from Pakistan’s economic downturn because they are getting richer, and do not suffer from the incompetence of this clueless government.

Imran Khan and PTI will meet its miserable end soon. Their days are numbered. Rhetorical speeches and crocodile tears on Kashmir will not distract the public forever.

The Kashmir issue is losing steam and people are moving on from their lives as they should. The public couldn’t care less about what happens in Kashmir when their own lives are suffering because of this circus regime.

PTI will soon break apart and shameless opportunists like SMQ, Fawad Chaudhry, Pervez Khattak, Firdous Awan etc. etc. will be absorbed by other parties.

They didn’t join PTI because they believe in Imran Khan’s fake tabdeeli. They joined PTI because it was the boost their careers needed at the time.

Now that the ship is sinking, they will be the first ones to jump.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

These are Pakistan's scores for the last 8 years in the Corruption index

2012 - 27
2013 - 28
2014 - 29
2015 - 30
2016 - 32
2017 - 32
2018 - 33
2019 - 32

From 2014 through 2017 were years where PML N was in power for the entire year. The average score for those 4 years is 30.75. The first full year of PTI the score was 32, so by using those numbers one can argue PTI has been less corrupt than PML N.

 

[desi_boy]

So this whole story about Pakistan's ranking on corruption perception index by Transparency International has fallen flat. Apparently, the data for the two reports that were negative and had an impact on CPI for Pakistan was collected between 2015-2017 and the second one in mid 2018. Please see below the tweets from Taimur Khan Jhagra for details.

Also, another thing to note here is that the perceived change in CPI ranking doesn't mean much as it falls within the margin of error of the colled data.

As for Mamoon and Uberkoen, maybe a little introspection is in order? But then again what would a rabid Anti-PTI resistance know anything about that. They only like to buy مٹھائی first, eat it only to realize their mistake later on and then throw it in the bin and then go on to repeat the same process with another one of their so called victories or perceived vindication of their point!

https://twitter.com/Jhagra/status/1220985206263484416?s=19

 

[uberkoen]

These are Pakistan's scores for the last 8 years in the Corruption index

2012 - 27
2013 - 28
2014 - 29
2015 - 30
2016 - 32
2017 - 32
2018 - 33
2019 - 32

From 2014 through 2017 were years where PML N was in power for the entire year. The average score for those 4 years is 30.75. The first full year of PTI the score was 32, so by using those numbers one can argue PTI has been less corrupt than PML N.

What brilliant insight. You're an amazing analyst but unfortunately that's not how it works what the scores show is that efforts were made year on year to improve and decrease corruption up until PTI came into power where those efforts have receded and perceived corruption has increased.

 

[uberkoen]

So this whole story about Pakistan's ranking on corruption perception index by Transparency International has fallen flat. Apparently, the data for the two reports that were negative and had an impact on CPI for Pakistan was collected between 2015-2017 and the second one in mid 2018. Please see below the tweets from Taimur Khan Jhagra for details.

Also, another thing to note here is that the perceived change in CPI ranking doesn't mean much as it falls within the margin of error of the colled data.

As for Mamoon and Uberkoen, maybe a little introspection is in order? But then again what would a rabid Anti-PTI resistance know anything about that. They only like to buy مٹھائی first, eat it only to realize their mistake later on and then throw it in the bin and then go on to repeat the same process with another one of their so called victories or perceived vindication of their point!

https://twitter.com/Jhagra/status/1220985206263484416?s=19

Again, same silly points which have already been addressed above had you bothered reading. Data is not from 2017-2019. This is a misunderstanding of people who refuse to understand the methodology used and the studies being used and how each one is difference and how they utilize data. I've already explained this earlier.

Please do not try to hide behind lies.

The fact is that Imran Khan and PTI were elected on the mandate of ending corruption within 90 days however, it is been 13 months and we do not see any improvement and based on some studies things have gotten even worse. That is what this report tells us. What you're saying by accepting the fact that there hasn't been a huge change in the corruption over the past few years vs this year is that PTI is equally as corrupt if not worse than PML-N and PPP. If this is what you're trying to say please just come out and say it straightforward

Also, next time you decide to comment and hide behind silly lies I would suggest you read the thread thoroughly to see if those haven't already been addressed and exposed because otherwise you just come off looking oblivious and uninformed.

 

[Kriketer]

Again, same silly points which have already been addressed above had you bothered reading. Data is not from 2017-2019. This is a misunderstanding of people who refuse to understand the methodology used and the studies being used and how each one is difference and how they utilize data. I've already explained this earlier.

Please do not try to hide behind lies.

The fact is that Imran Khan and PTI were elected on the mandate of ending corruption within 90 days however, it is been 13 months and we do not see any improvement and based on some studies things have gotten even worse. That is what this report tells us. What you're saying by accepting the fact that there hasn't been a huge change in the corruption over the past few years vs this year is that PTI is equally as corrupt if not worse than PML-N and PPP. If this is what you're trying to say please just come out and say it straightforward

Also, next time you decide to comment and hide behind silly lies I would suggest you read the thread thoroughly to see if those haven't already been addressed and exposed because otherwise you just come off looking oblivious and uninformed.

If corruption has gotten worse than why do we have your beloved corrupt leaders running away from the country?

 

[Technics 1210]

Another point I forgot to address above was how people on here are saying the we are now ranked lower on CPI because more cases of corruption are being reported now. This is rather silly, so countries which report more corruption cases and prosecute people who are involved in more corruption are considered to be more corrupt? This is definitely not the case and I've briefly addressed this topic earlier as well. Moreover, let's not forget most cases against PML(N) and PPP leadership were not initiated during PTI government but these old cases were brought against each others by previous governments.

More cases of corruption being reported leads to the PERCEPTION that corruption has increased. Hence the drop in the index.

 

[Waseem]

So the discussion goes to 3 pages when there is a twisted news about corruption level being increased under PTI even though it was by slightest of margins and more importantly it's based on pepole's PERCEPTIONS Shows how desperate are people to prove Imran Khan is as corrupt as Nawaz and Zardari or they obviously hide behind "People around Imran are most corrupt".

Now it turns out even the data was from 2015-2017 I really feel for supporters of corrupt parties, instead of improving theselves, they want Imran Khan to be dragged to THEIR low levels.....RAISE YOUR OWN LEVEL GUYS!

 

[Waseem]

Nooras and the daily dose of humiliation )

Muqaddar hi kharaab hai

Every time they bring something against PTI and Imran Khan, 90% of the times it turns out they are trashing their own pathetic selves.

At times like this, they disappear from face of earth pretending "Hum tou kisi ko bhi support nahi kartay, sab aik jaisay hain". This breed would claim they support NO ONE but 99% of their posts are against Imran Khan

 

[Mamoon]

PTI supporters:

The TI report is biased and fake.

Also PTI supporters:

The TI report used data from 2015-2018, so they have exposed the corruption of PMLN. Therefore, it is not biased and fake anymore.

PTI supporters:

TI is run by someone who is on Nawaz’s payroll.

PTI supporters:

TI has exposed Nawaz’s corruption. So it is not on his payroll anymore.

__________________

If anyone wants to see how the mind of a PTI cult-follower works, do not look beyond the self-defeating arguments and mental gymnastics that we have witnessed over the last two days.

It would be embarrassing if they had an hota of shame and dignity.

 

[AdamM97]

PTI supporters:

The TI report is biased and fake.

Also PTI supporters:

The TI report used data from 2015-2018, so they have exposed the corruption of PMLN. Therefore, it is not biased and fake anymore.

PTI supporters:

TI is run by someone who is on Nawaz’s payroll.

PTI supporters:

TI has exposed Nawaz’s corruption. So it is not on his payroll anymore.

__________________

If anyone wants to see how the mind of a PTI cult-follower works, do not look beyond the self-defeating arguments and mental gymnastics that we have witnessed over the last two days.

It would be embarrassing if they had an hota of shame and dignity.

A simple knee-jerk reaction from PTI supporters who were salty that TI had exposed PTI’s corruption(or so we thought).

Still, this entire thread has backfired on PMLN and the ”never-Imranists” now that TI has come clean and explained that corruption hasn’t increased since PTI assumed power. https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

Anyways, PTI supporters had the last laugh, even if some reactions from the PTI camp were immature and ridiculous when they claimed that TI was on Noora payroll.

At the end of the day, the Nooras are the ones who got humiliated. Thank you Transparency International indeed.

 

[Bewal Express]

These are Pakistan's scores for the last 8 years in the Corruption index

2012 - 27
2013 - 28
2014 - 29
2015 - 30
2016 - 32
2017 - 32
2018 - 33
2019 - 32

From 2014 through 2017 were years where PML N was in power for the entire year. The average score for those 4 years is 30.75. The first full year of PTI the score was 32, so by using those numbers one can argue PTI has been less corrupt than PML N.

Who led the TI in those years and who was on NS payroll?

 

[Bewal Express]

Excellent insight, uberkoen.

Thank you Transparency International for exposing PTI’s corruption. There is no doubt that they are deeply engulfed in corruption and have fooled the masses with their fake tabdeeli.

People can hide behind certain technicalities for now, but in due time everything will be clear and this fake party and its supporters will have nowhere to hide.

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

My answer to Abdullah’s question is what you would expect - I firmly believe that PTI is extremely corrupt and their corruption cannot be swept under the carpet for long.

The notion that Imran himself is honest has to be questioned because he is not coming clean.

Has been running from the foreign funding case for years and is demanding secrecy in investigations. Yesterday, he approached the SC to challenge ECP’s jurisdiction in the foreign funding case.

He is hiding behind court stay orders, something that he used to criticize in the past when his opponents would do the same.

No honest man hides behind stay orders and demands secrecy in investigations if he has nothing to hide.

As an administrator he has been a miserable failure. PTI failed in KP and are now failing at the federal level, and when it comes to strategic decisions and foreign policy, they are taking dictations from the boots.

So far, his legacy as a PM has been the following:

- shameless U-turn on traitor Musharraf’s treason case

- shameless U-turn on COAS extension

- couldn’t do anything when Nawaz Sharif made a deal with his bosses and walked out of jail without paying a penny

- corruption has increased on his watch and his dumb economic policies have made life miserable for the poor who are cursing him. He is rapidly losing the support of the common man.

Pretty soon, the only supporters who would be left are overseas, armchair Insaafians who actually benefit from Pakistan’s economic downturn because they are getting richer, and do not suffer from the incompetence of this clueless government.

Imran Khan and PTI will meet its miserable end soon. Their days are numbered. Rhetorical speeches and crocodile tears on Kashmir will not distract the public forever.

The Kashmir issue is losing steam and people are moving on from their lives as they should. The public couldn’t care less about what happens in Kashmir when their own lives are suffering because of this circus regime.

PTI will soon break apart and shameless opportunists like SMQ, Fawad Chaudhry, Pervez Khattak, Firdous Awan etc. etc. will be absorbed by other parties.

They didn’t join PTI because they believe in Imran Khan’s fake tabdeeli. They joined PTI because it was the boost their careers needed at the time.

Now that the ship is sinking, they will be the first ones to jump.

For years you have told us that Corruption isn't important and then yesterday you went gaga. Suddenly it was important. What a pathetic unprincipled post.
So you are thanking the TI even though the increases that they report refers to, came in the time of the Nooras. As I said you are so desperate that facts dont matter. As Sadiq Jan brilliantly pointed out NAB( and that is the most important fact lost in your and the Noora celebrations ) is corrupt to the core and its head, the sexual predatory budha was appointed by NS and AZ, I wonder why they would appoint such a crook to lead the countries anti corruption body lol

Let's not going onto any economic stuff because you know and everyone knows that you know about as much on economics as about working for a halal living. They know that you run everytime you are challenged so you stick to being a Geo mouthpiece without any idea of even the basics of economics. You are the guy that thinks the current Account deficit was somehow funny.
You can say what you like and IK is clean and the fact that you can't even challenge the fact that likes NS, AZ, Billo and Maryams are stealing from a poor country but still support them shows your pathetic morality.
The rest of your Geo inspired rant has been hit for 6 many times. Cone on the economics thread and be a man and we will educate you.

 

[Bewal Express]

PTI supporters:

The TI report is biased and fake.

Also PTI supporters:

The TI report used data from 2015-2018, so they have exposed the corruption of PMLN. Therefore, it is not biased and fake anymore.

PTI supporters:

TI is run by someone who is on Nawaz’s payroll.

PTI supporters:

TI has exposed Nawaz’s corruption. So it is not on his payroll anymore.

__________________

If anyone wants to see how the mind of a PTI cult-follower works, do not look beyond the self-defeating arguments and mental gymnastics that we have witnessed over the last two days.

It would be embarrassing if they had an hota of shame and dignity.

Do you think the head of the TI in PK should be on NSs payroll?

 

[Bewal Express]

Muqaddar hi kharaab hai

Every time they bring something against PTI and Imran Khan, 90% of the times it turns out they are trashing their own pathetic selves.

At times like this, they disappear from face of earth pretending "Hum tou kisi ko bhi support nahi kartay, sab aik jaisay hain". This breed would claim they support NO ONE but 99% of their posts are against Imran Khan

For years we heard from some idiots on here that corruption is not a problem. Never ever mentioned the TI reports and suddenly the TI is their best friend and corruption is important. Well Corruption will be important to us because we love PK not unlike some who have made a living from it.

 

[Bewal Express]

Again, same silly points which have already been addressed above had you bothered reading. Data is not from 2017-2019. This is a misunderstanding of people who refuse to understand the methodology used and the studies being used and how each one is difference and how they utilize data. I've already explained this earlier.

Please do not try to hide behind lies.

The fact is that Imran Khan and PTI were elected on the mandate of ending corruption within 90 days however, it is been 13 months and we do not see any improvement and based on some studies things have gotten even worse. That is what this report tells us. What you're saying by accepting the fact that there hasn't been a huge change in the corruption over the past few years vs this year is that PTI is equally as corrupt if not worse than PML-N and PPP. If this is what you're trying to say please just come out and say it straightforward

Also, next time you decide to comment and hide behind silly lies I would suggest you read the thread thoroughly to see if those haven't already been addressed and exposed because otherwise you just come off looking oblivious and uninformed.

Stop trying to look clever, I nailed your great knowledge on the MR thread when you ran with your tail between your legs.
All the data is pretty much a statistical dead heat bar the data from the Noora time hence the perceived increase.
So you have gone from the corruption has increased to well its the not really. Tell me who is supposedly the main anti corruption and who appointed their head and why Billo and SS are so desperate for him to stay?

 

[Mian]

Muqaddar hi kharaab hai

Every time they bring something against PTI and Imran Khan, 90% of the times it turns out they are trashing their own pathetic selves.

At times like this, they disappear from face of earth pretending "Hum tou kisi ko bhi support nahi kartay, sab aik jaisay hain". This breed would claim they support NO ONE but 99% of their posts are against Imran Khan

The bhangras and celebrations on dholak of some posters earlier in this thread remind of a very similar situation when PMLN supporters celebrated when SC called Nawaz a Godfather )

 

[Mian]

For me it's not a surprise to see supporters of crook wishing Pakistan to fail just because Imran is in power instead of their money making machines like Zardari and NS

 

[Mian]

Jhagra once again proved his worth by exposing the reality of this report. Well done Jhagra

 

[desi_boy]

Again, same silly points which have already been addressed above had you bothered reading. Data is not from 2017-2019. This is a misunderstanding of people who refuse to understand the methodology used and the studies being used and how each one is difference and how they utilize data. I've already explained this earlier.

Please do not try to hide behind lies.

The fact is that Imran Khan and PTI were elected on the mandate of ending corruption within 90 days however, it is been 13 months and we do not see any improvement and based on some studies things have gotten even worse. That is what this report tells us. What you're saying by accepting the fact that there hasn't been a huge change in the corruption over the past few years vs this year is that PTI is equally as corrupt if not worse than PML-N and PPP. If this is what you're trying to say please just come out and say it straightforward

Also, next time you decide to comment and hide behind silly lies I would suggest you read the thread thoroughly to see if those haven't already been addressed and exposed because otherwise you just come off looking oblivious and uninformed.

You are correct that I didn't read through this entire thread or all your posts as it it is tedious and excruciatingly long work for which I don't have much time, even right now I've just come back home from work after putting in 18 hours of work and am extremely exhausted. However, reading the last couple of your comments has left me frustrated at the lack of depth in your understanding of this report. The pertinent point in this report is that there is no significant change in the corruption perception index to claim corruption has increased, infact the TI Pakistan has clarified that minor decrease in points is still within the margin of error. Also, one thing has become abundantly clear and that is either you don't know how the averages work or you are deliberately being dishonest to mislead people to prove your point. In terms of averages there are three possibilities for our current score of CPI.

1) PMLN did an amazing job from 2015-2017 and 2018 to control corruption but it was PTI that messed it all up so bad that whatever "good work" PMLN did, it averaged out and in the end keeping the total historical score of those metrics to the same level as it was pre-PMLN. (This possibility in my humble opinion is impossible!).

2) This possibility would be the flip version of the above mentioned possibility where PTI did a great job in its tenure but couldn't bring the score higher due to PMLNs extremely poor past performance and in the end the score averaged out to what it is. (not impossible but highly unlikely)

3) in this case neither party did a great job at controlling corruption, in fact both parties failed at controlling corruption. (Not certain but very highly likely).

The article below on Dawn gives TI statement saying corruption hasn't increased.

As for your point about PTIs mandate of ending corruption, for that PTI needs absolute majority and not have to rely on opposition controlled Senate to pass laws that can bring about improvement. Look at Zainab Alert Bill, ever since it was passed in the lower house after sitting with the subcommittee headed by baby Zardari for over a year now it is languishing in Senate! In this current environment PTI can't do much when it is being blackmailed by it's own coalition partners not to mention the opposition that is looking to hurt PTI even if it Damages the state in the long run! However, I agree that PTI could still better using other methods by empowering and strengthening the institutions particularly the police in the provinces it holds power! And please do quote studies that suggest corruption has gotten worse and NO THIS REPORT DOES NOT TELL US THAT AS TI PAKISTAN HAS ALREADY REJECTED THAT INTERPRETATION OF THE REPORT AND RELEASED A CLARIFICATION!

https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

Also, I don't think PTI is as corrupt as PMLN, in fact even suggesting such a thing is a false and a dishonest equivalence! The worst PTI has done in this case is not manage the corruption cases against the known criminals!

 

[IMMY69]

Sick to death with these corrupt posters.

Thirty years of corruption and looting the poor people of Pakistan is fine for them.
Just let that sink in for a moment.

Soon I will have to question why morally upstanding posters even debate with people complicate in criminality. I for one have stopped and soon will stop posting entirely here unless moderators start distinguishing between decent people and those that are morally defunct.

 

[Mian]

You are correct that I didn't read through this entire thread or all your posts as it it is tedious and excruciatingly long work for which I don't have much time, even right now I've just come back home from work after putting in 18 hours of work and am extremely exhausted. However, reading the last couple of your comments has left me frustrated at the lack of depth in your understanding of this report. The pertinent point in this report is that there is no significant change in the corruption perception index to claim corruption has increased, infact the TI Pakistan has clarified that minor decrease in points is still within the margin of error. Also, one thing has become abundantly clear and that is either you don't know how the averages work or you are deliberately being dishonest to mislead people to prove your point. In terms of averages there are three possibilities for our current score of CPI.

1) PMLN did an amazing job from 2015-2017 and 2018 to control corruption but it was PTI that messed it all up so bad that whatever "good work" PMLN did, it averaged out and in the end keeping the total historical score of those metrics to the same level as it was pre-PMLN. (This possibility in my humble opinion is impossible!).

2) This possibility would be the flip version of the above mentioned possibility where PTI did a great job in its tenure but couldn't bring the score higher due to PMLNs extremely poor past performance and in the end the score averaged out to what it is. (not impossible but highly unlikely)

3) in this case neither party did a great job at controlling corruption, in fact both parties failed at controlling corruption. (Not certain but very highly likely).

The article below on Dawn gives TI statement saying corruption hasn't increased.

As for your point about PTIs mandate of ending corruption, for that PTI needs absolute majority and not have to rely on opposition controlled Senate to pass laws that can bring about improvement. Look at Zainab Alert Bill, ever since it was passed in the lower house after sitting with the subcommittee headed by baby Zardari for over a year now it is languishing in Senate! In this current environment PTI can't do much when it is being blackmailed by it's own coalition partners not to mention the opposition that is looking to hurt PTI even if it Damages the state in the long run! However, I agree that PTI could still better using other methods by empowering and strengthening the institutions particularly the police in the provinces it holds power! And please do quote studies that suggest corruption has gotten worse and NO THIS REPORT DOES NOT TELL US THAT AS TI PAKISTAN HAS ALREADY REJECTED THAT INTERPRETATION OF THE REPORT AND RELEASED A CLARIFICATION!

https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

Also, I don't think PTI is as corrupt as PMLN, in fact even suggesting such a thing is a false and a dishonest equivalence! The worst PTI has done in this case is not manage the corruption cases against the known criminals!

top post and you should post more often!

 

[Bewal Express]

The bhangras and celebrations on dholak of some posters earlier in this thread remind of a very similar situation when PMLN supporters celebrated when SC called Nawaz a Godfather )

I haven't seen the evidence myself but did the TI report give an improved rating to KP?

 

[Bewal Express]

Sick to death with these corrupt posters.

Thirty years of corruption and looting the poor people of Pakistan is fine for them.
Just let that sink in for a moment.

Soon I will have to question why morally upstanding posters even debate with people complicate in criminality. I for one have stopped and soon will stop posting entirely here unless moderators start distinguishing between decent people and those that are morally defunct.

But havent you enjoyed these losers showing their true nature. Firstly, Corruption isn't a problem in PK and then jumping on the TI report without context. And facing humiliation on here.

 

[IMMY69]

But havent you enjoyed these losers showing their true nature. Firstly, Corruption isn't a problem in PK and then jumping on the TI report without context. And facing humiliation on here.

The problem is that they are always crushed, disappear and then come back when anything remotely bad about IK/PTI is said... it’s like ground hog day. Over and over again.

Plus when you really break it down then you find yourself readings posts of people who have supported the destruction of millions of people’s lives... I know you can avoid the posts but frankly even putting them on the ignore list doesn’t really work so I’m coming to the end of the road.

 

[Bewal Express]

The problem is that they are always crushed, disappear and then come back when anything remotely bad about IK/PTI is said... it’s like ground hog day. Over and over again.

Plus when you really break it down then you find yourself readings posts of people who have supported the destruction of millions of people’s lives... I know you can avoid the posts but frankly even putting them on the ignore list doesn’t really work so I’m coming to the end of the road.

Their families stole from the poor of PK, they don't see that as a problem but the least we can do is to humiliate them so that our words are ringing in their year when they go to bed.

 

[MenInG]

Transparency International – Pakistan, which last week released a global corruption perceptions report showing Pakistan had slipped three spots from the previous year's ranking, on Sunday issued a clarification saying that the lowering of Pakistan’s rating did not “reflect an increase or decrease in corruption as it is within the standard margin of error”.

According to a press release issued on Sunday, the anti-graft non-government organisation (NGO) said it wanted to set the record straight and issue clarifications regarding “misreporting on CPI [Corruption Perceptions Index] 2019 in the media”.

The statement says that certain sections of media misreported ratings of the Bertelsmann Stiftung Transformation Index 2020, using data from the 2018 index instead. The data for the 2020 Bertelsmann Index, according to the statement, has not yet been made public and was exclusively made available to TI for the formation of its report.

Responding to the government's criticism following the release of the report, the press release clarified that TI had in no way termed the government of President Musharraf as most corrupt in the country, nor was the current government referred to as the second most corrupt one. The PML-N and PPP governments were also not called the “cleanest” ones.

Addressing a press conference in Islamabad on Friday, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Information Dr Firdous Ashiq Awan had lambasted the TI report, saying: "There is a huge question mark over the transparency of TI. It is necessary to expose the people and the data, on the basis of which this this report was published, in front of the public.

"Who will respect the findings of a report that says the most amount of corruption was done during the government of Gen Pervez Musharraf, followed by Imran Khan’s government and then by the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), placing the PML-N government at the very bottom?" Awan had questioned.

“[The] reality is that CPI 2019 has not given any such rating for Pakistan, nor for any other country. TI does not have its own data input in CPI, and TI Pakistan has no role in the creation of the CPI, nor does it have any data input in it,” TI said in its statement.

The NGO further clarified that the corruption perceptions index is prepared by its Germany wing and that Transparency International Pakistan had no role in the creation of the CPI.

“The CPI aggregates data from 13 different sources of 12 different institutions that provide perception of corruption by business people and country experts of the level of corruption in public sector. Each of the scores of the 13 sources included in the CPI is standardised by TI and data is entered in a software, to calculate for the aggregation into the CPI score.

"The standardisation converts all the data points to a scale of 0 to 100 where a zero represents the highest level of perceived corruption, and 100 the lowest level of perceived corruption, CPI 2019 for Pakistan has used data of 8 sources,” the press release said, clarifying how the CPI is generated.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

 

[Mian]

Transparency International – Pakistan, which last week released a global corruption perceptions report showing Pakistan had slipped three spots from the previous year's ranking, on Sunday issued a clarification saying that the lowering of Pakistan’s rating did not “reflect an increase or decrease in corruption as it is within the standard margin of error”.

According to a press release issued on Sunday, the anti-graft non-government organisation (NGO) said it wanted to set the record straight and issue clarifications regarding “misreporting on CPI [Corruption Perceptions Index] 2019 in the media”.

The statement says that certain sections of media misreported ratings of the Bertelsmann Stiftung Transformation Index 2020, using data from the 2018 index instead. The data for the 2020 Bertelsmann Index, according to the statement, has not yet been made public and was exclusively made available to TI for the formation of its report.

Responding to the government's criticism following the release of the report, the press release clarified that TI had in no way termed the government of President Musharraf as most corrupt in the country, nor was the current government referred to as the second most corrupt one. The PML-N and PPP governments were also not called the “cleanest” ones.

Addressing a press conference in Islamabad on Friday, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Information Dr Firdous Ashiq Awan had lambasted the TI report, saying: "There is a huge question mark over the transparency of TI. It is necessary to expose the people and the data, on the basis of which this this report was published, in front of the public.

"Who will respect the findings of a report that says the most amount of corruption was done during the government of Gen Pervez Musharraf, followed by Imran Khan’s government and then by the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), placing the PML-N government at the very bottom?" Awan had questioned.

“[The] reality is that CPI 2019 has not given any such rating for Pakistan, nor for any other country. TI does not have its own data input in CPI, and TI Pakistan has no role in the creation of the CPI, nor does it have any data input in it,” TI said in its statement.

The NGO further clarified that the corruption perceptions index is prepared by its Germany wing and that Transparency International Pakistan had no role in the creation of the CPI.

“The CPI aggregates data from 13 different sources of 12 different institutions that provide perception of corruption by business people and country experts of the level of corruption in public sector. Each of the scores of the 13 sources included in the CPI is standardised by TI and data is entered in a software, to calculate for the aggregation into the CPI score.

"The standardisation converts all the data points to a scale of 0 to 100 where a zero represents the highest level of perceived corruption, and 100 the lowest level of perceived corruption, CPI 2019 for Pakistan has used data of 8 sources,” the press release said, clarifying how the CPI is generated.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

Can we expect an apology from all those tv channels and anchors?

 

[Syed1]

This is epic level of humiliation for cult followers of corrupt toola, I think it surpasses all previous humiliations )

 

[Mamoon]

Do you think the head of the TI in PK should be on NSs payroll?

So why is TI supposedly exposing PMLN’s corruption if it is on Nawaz’s payroll?

 

[uberkoen]

More cases of corruption being reported leads to the PERCEPTION that corruption has increased. Hence the drop in the index.

No, wrong once again. The cases of corruption that are being tried at NAB are not new. Tell me what new cases have been reported and just because new cases are reported does not mean the perception of corruption increases. Go look at the methodology and you will see that this is not the case.

 

[uberkoen]

So the discussion goes to 3 pages when there is a twisted news about corruption level being increased under PTI even though it was by slightest of margins and more importantly it's based on pepole's PERCEPTIONS Shows how desperate are people to prove Imran Khan is as corrupt as Nawaz and Zardari or they obviously hide behind "People around Imran are most corrupt".

Now it turns out even the data was from 2015-2017 I really feel for supporters of corrupt parties, instead of improving theselves, they want Imran Khan to be dragged to THEIR low levels.....RAISE YOUR OWN LEVEL GUYS!

It took you three pages to figure out CPI stands for corruption perception index? You're a smart one aren't you.

and no the data is not from 2015-2017 that is a major misconception. Once report which bases its index on time series and trend analysis used data from 2015-2018 to score based on progress of some metrics over the time period studied and gave a score on the progress of these metrics as at 2018.

Please educate yourself before you post comments like this.

 

[uberkoen]

Stop trying to look clever, I nailed your great knowledge on the MR thread when you ran with your tail between your legs.
All the data is pretty much a statistical dead heat bar the data from the Noora time hence the perceived increase.
So you have gone from the corruption has increased to well its the not really. Tell me who is supposedly the main anti corruption and who appointed their head and why Billo and SS are so desperate for him to stay?

Again, same old tactics. Never acknowledge the truth instead try to divert the discussion by asking pointless questions.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Questioning Imran Khan/PTI and Military establishment doesn’t automatically mean that one is Nawaz and Zardari supporter.

Not sure why Is it so difficult for some PTI supporters to comprehend?

Anyone who is in power is subjected to this kind of scrutiny.

 

[uberkoen]

So many posts on silly things again. All topics have already been addressed and random people pop up saying the same things again and again. I wish people could read and educate themselves before commenting here.

What surprises me is that people are still in denial over the major corruption happening hand in hand with Khusro Bakhtiar and Tareen and IK turning a blind eye to everything that is happening between the two.

This isn't a matter of who is right and who is wrong. It's a matter of realizing what is going on. Only accepting it will help improve it. How can you improve something you turn a blind eye to and completely deny.

 

[Mamoon]

For years you have told us that Corruption isn't important and then yesterday you went gaga. Suddenly it was important. What a pathetic unprincipled post.
So you are thanking the TI even though the increases that they report refers to, came in the time of the Nooras. As I said you are so desperate that facts dont matter. As Sadiq Jan brilliantly pointed out NAB( and that is the most important fact lost in your and the Noora celebrations ) is corrupt to the core and its head, the sexual predatory budha was appointed by NS and AZ, I wonder why they would appoint such a crook to lead the countries anti corruption body lol

Let's not going onto any economic stuff because you know and everyone knows that you know about as much on economics as about working for a halal living. They know that you run everytime you are challenged so you stick to being a Geo mouthpiece without any idea of even the basics of economics. You are the guy that thinks the current Account deficit was somehow funny.
You can say what you like and IK is clean and the fact that you can't even challenge the fact that likes NS, AZ, Billo and Maryams are stealing from a poor country but still support them shows your pathetic morality.
The rest of your Geo inspired rant has been hit for 6 many times. Cone on the economics thread and be a man and we will educate you.

You continue to deflect.

So is TI biased and fake or not? Is it on Nawaz’s payroll or not?

Yes let’s not talk about the economic stuff. PTI advertised Asad Umar’s as an economic genius who would solve Pakistan’s financial woes. The economic genius learned the difference between managing the finances of a company and a country, and he was so out of his depth that Imran booted him out within 8 months, while cult-followers were singing songs of his brilliant performance.

Do you think it is difficult to manage Current Account deficit? Do you think Ishaq Dar was unaware of the overvaluation of PKR?

What is the outcome of PTI’s economic reforms and what will change in the next 5-6 years? The poor people are suffering like never before. When will their misery end?

To solve Pakistan’s financial woes, PTI have hired a former PPP finance minister who either facilitated Zardari’s corruption or was unaware of it. What sort of finance minister is he? of all the people in the world, Imran could only a find a former PPP finance minister to steer the economy in the right direction?

Let’s not talk about his U-turn on IMF. Since he knew that Pakistan was in debt, why did he claim that he would rather commit suicide than take loan from IMF? What happened to the 200 Arab rupees that the fake degree holder Murad Saeed was supposed to recover from Swiss bank accounts?

What happened to the $12 billion that Nawaz was supposed to pay before walking out of jail?

Let’s face some facts:

- PTI is all talk and no show. They cannot recoup a dime from Nawaz and Zardari.

- They have no clue what they are doing with respect to the economy. They do not have things under control and the uncontrollable inflation is the reason why the common man on the street is losing faith in them.

- Imran is not honest. If he was honest, he would not be running from the FF case and would not be demanding secrecy in investigation. An honest man wastes no time in clearing allegations and coming clean.

This is actually a great opportunity for Imran. If he has nothing to hide, he should publicize the FF case and clear all the allegations publicly, which will solidly his self-proclaimed assertion that he is an honest man.

Why is he not doing that?

 

[Mian]

This is epic level of humiliation for cult followers of corrupt toola, I think it surpasses all previous humiliations )

Enjoying the frustration of some posters )

 

[uberkoen]

Questioning Imran Khan/PTI and Military establishment doesn’t automatically mean that one is Nawaz and Zardari supporter.

Not sure why Is it so difficult for some PTI supporters to comprehend?

Anyone who is in power is subjected to this kind of scrutiny.

PTI is a cult. Anyone who questions them is a "noora". I've never voted for Nawaz in my entire life yet I'm considered a noora on here because I expose the lies of IK and PTI.

 

[AdamM97]

Questioning Imran Khan/PTI and Military establishment doesn’t automatically mean that one is Nawaz and Zardari supporter.

Not sure why Is it so difficult for some PTI supporters to comprehend?

Anyone who is in power is subjected to this kind of scrutiny.

So questioning ”misreporting on CPI in the media” (TI’s own words) makes you a cult-follower? Never Imranists mislead the people on this issue, they’re the ones who need to be criticized and questioned.

Sure, PTI-supporters are somewhat arrogant and can’t tolerate criticism, but on this specific issue, I don’t see why they shouldn’t get mad ar people and journalists who mislead the public on TI’s rankings.

 

[Bewal Express]

PTI is a cult. Anyone who questions them is a "noora". I've never voted for Nawaz in my entire life yet I'm considered a noora on here because I expose the lies of IK and PTI.

Except you are always here defending them, remember when you kept asking what the link was between the Sharifs and MR and when it provided you ran away. So who supports the cult you or us. BTW open that thread again.

 

[Bewal Express]

You continue to deflect.

So is TI biased and fake or not? Is it on Nawaz’s payroll or not?

Yes let’s not talk about the economic stuff. PTI advertised Asad Umar’s as an economic genius who would solve Pakistan’s financial woes. The economic genius learned the difference between managing the finances of a company and a country, and he was so out of his depth that Imran booted him out within 8 months, while cult-followers were singing songs of his brilliant performance.

Do you think it is difficult to manage Current Account deficit? Do you think Ishaq Dar was unaware of the overvaluation of PKR?

What is the outcome of PTI’s economic reforms and what will change in the next 5-6 years? The poor people are suffering like never before. When will their misery end?

To solve Pakistan’s financial woes, PTI have hired a former PPP finance minister who either facilitated Zardari’s corruption or was unaware of it. What sort of finance minister is he? of all the people in the world, Imran could only a find a former PPP finance minister to steer the economy in the right direction?

Let’s not talk about his U-turn on IMF. Since he knew that Pakistan was in debt, why did he claim that he would rather commit suicide than take loan from IMF? What happened to the 200 Arab rupees that the fake degree holder Murad Saeed was supposed to recover from Swiss bank accounts?

What happened to the $12 billion that Nawaz was supposed to pay before walking out of jail?

Let’s face some facts:

- PTI is all talk and no show. They cannot recoup a dime from Nawaz and Zardari.

- They have no clue what they are doing with respect to the economy. They do not have things under control and the uncontrollable inflation is the reason why the common man on the street is losing faith in them.

- Imran is not honest. If he was honest, he would not be running from the FF case and would not be demanding secrecy in investigation. An honest man wastes no time in clearing allegations and coming clean.

This is actually a great opportunity for Imran. If he has nothing to hide, he should publicize the FF case and clear all the allegations publicly, which will solidly his self-proclaimed assertion that he is an honest man.

Why is he not doing that?

For a start it's not me saying, TI have issued clarification to humiliate you even more, as if you haven't had enough of a dosage already.
Yes and yes on your 1st question. So a clear cut answer. Your morals are on par with your comprehension skills. How can a person that works for NS be the head of anti corruption body, its like you be put on the committee for making sure people are working on duty and not posting on websites.

So you tell that Dar was aware, so tell wise one what did he do? Are you saying he wa right to ignore it? If so how do you or him expect to fund a gap of $33bn, as he going to magic dollars? Was he expecting the IMF to bridge the gap? Who was he going to beg? I bet you have no clue what I just said then because you, like Illiterate Nooras don't understand any of this. If IMF didn't help then, then who? We need answers. Not questions from you.

You keep going on about FF as if you know what you talking about. So if you do tell us what the A4 sheet of paper the Nooras said, and why the PPP said exactly the same as IK. Why do you run from this simple question? The party funding case will be decided and it will be the same as all your other hopes. If the PTI is in trouble where does it leave the others that have A4 sheets of paper.

 

[Bewal Express]

So many posts on silly things again. All topics have already been addressed and random people pop up saying the same things again and again. I wish people could read and educate themselves before commenting here.

What surprises me is that people are still in denial over the major corruption happening hand in hand with Khusro Bakhtiar and Tareen and IK turning a blind eye to everything that is happening between the two.

This isn't a matter of who is right and who is wrong. It's a matter of realizing what is going on. Only accepting it will help improve it. How can you improve something you turn a blind eye to and completely deny.

Maybe you can educate yourself because you have been exposed. The TI have said today what Sadiq Jan and others said yesterday. Stop acting intelligent know it all, after you did the same on the MR thread and then ran. Please come back on that thread

 

[Bewal Express]

Questioning Imran Khan/PTI and Military establishment doesn’t automatically mean that one is Nawaz and Zardari supporter.

Not sure why Is it so difficult for some PTI supporters to comprehend?

Anyone who is in power is subjected to this kind of scrutiny.

Fair enough but then you need to make sure that the data you use at least has context. Is PK more corrupt under IK and Mush compared to the PPP and Noora era, no is the simple answer.

 

[Bewal Express]

So why is TI supposedly exposing PMLN’s corruption if it is on Nawaz’s payroll?

Because if it didn't, it will lose any credibility. Why is the head of TI on NS payroll? The fact that no one has even challenged that should be the most scariest. NS even corrupted the people that report on corruption.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Thing is that truth be told, we are a morally corrupt nation. Not just leaders but the aam awam is also corrupt. Now there couldn’t be a miracle that Imran Khan would ve done to change that at a grass root level, it takes centuries for covilized nations to evolve and get to a point where Honesty and truth are valued in their society. So obviously aam awam and their leaders are still as corrupt as 2 years ago under Nawaz.

What many were hoping that Imran will do is to show some examples that he putting things in motion. Setting some examples but nothing came out of it.

Instead Nawaz has been released to London. Zardari not under any serious threat, NAB didn’t confiscate anything from anyone (Sharjeel Memon just got scott free a few days ago). Many of the old corrupt politicians are now part of Imran Khans team. Army and its retired Generals are still untouchable by ordinary courts. Imran has delivered nothing despite all his tall claims. So why should we have any further hopes from him?

Isnt it time to realise that Imran Khan isnt for real and we need “proper & genuine” change (something like French Revolution).

 

[IMMY69]

So questioning ”misreporting on CPI in the media” (TI’s own words) makes you a cult-follower? Never Imranists mislead the people on this issue, they’re the ones who need to be criticized and questioned.

Sure, PTI-supporters are somewhat arrogant and can’t tolerate criticism, but on this specific issue, I don’t see why they shouldn’t get mad ar people and journalists who mislead the public on TI’s rankings.

Have you ever considered that majority of PTI voters are just normal people who are fed up of corrupt dynastic politics that has destroyed the country and are fed up of the few corrupt individuals who come here and spout rubbish??

The corrupt call it a cult and that’s natural because they have no defence.

 

[Bewal Express]

Thing is that truth be told, we are a morally corrupt nation. Not just leaders but the aam awam is also corrupt. Now there couldn’t be a miracle that Imran Khan would ve done to change that at a grass root level, it takes centuries for covilized nations to evolve and get to a point where Honesty and truth are valued in their society. So obviously aam awam and their leaders are still as corrupt as 2 years ago under Nawaz.

What many were hoping that Imran will do is to show some examples that he putting things in motion. Setting some examples but nothing came out of it.

Instead Nawaz has been released to London. Zardari not under any serious threat, NAB didn’t confiscate anything from anyone (Sharjeel Memon just got scott free a few days ago). Many of the old corrupt politicians are now part of Imran Khans team. Army and its retired Generals are still untouchable by ordinary courts. Imran has delivered nothing despite all his tall claims. So why should we have any further hopes from him?

Isnt it time to realise that Imran Khan isnt for real and we need “proper & genuine” change (something like French Revolution).

We need 3 or 4 good leaders in a row to make an indent. IK has made a start but the reality is that NAB, the Judiciary amongst others is corrupt to the core. We Saw with the Judge Malik case how much how corrupt the Judiciary is and NAB is just there to make drama and all the time find ways of not prosecuting and or destroying cases. If i understand correctly, CJP has banned the plea bargaining process as it was being used to let of criminals. History will look back at CJP Nisar as great PK, no doubt he made mistakes but he single handedly fined MR, and that in itself takes incredible courage and deserves praise. May Allah keep him safe.

 

[Mamoon]

We need 3 or 4 good leaders in a row to make an indent. IK has made a start but the reality is that NAB, the Judiciary amongst others is corrupt to the core. We Saw with the Judge Malik case how much how corrupt the Judiciary is and NAB is just there to make drama and all the time find ways of not prosecuting and or destroying cases. If i understand correctly, CJP has banned the plea bargaining process as it was being used to let of criminals. History will look back at CJP Nisar as great PK, no doubt he made mistakes but he single handedly fined MR, and that in itself takes incredible courage and deserves praise. May Allah keep him safe.

We need the military to get their claws out of civilian affairs. Imran is a con-artist but even a true great leader cannot do much as long as the military have him on a string.

 

[MenInG]

So Transparency guys say there is no increase in corruption but our dear friends at it with hammer and tongues - hilarious.

 

[Knight_Rider]

We need the military to get their claws out of civilian affairs. Imran is a con-artist but even a true great leader cannot do much as long as the military have him on a string.

Exactly this and the end of feudal rule. They have messed it up for far too long

Ordinary people are suffocated (regardless of their political and religious affiliation). We need a level playing field and meritocracy in country to snub corruption. Imran fraudia is only on scene for a brief period of time.

 

[Bewal Express]

We need the military to get their claws out of civilian affairs. Imran is a con-artist but even a true great leader cannot do much as long as the military have him on a string.

I can remember a time when you kept telling us the Maulvis were the problem and the Millitary were barely mentioned. And then NS did his act about vote ki izzat do and idiots fell for it. Did you not know at that point that Millitary had ruled PK for many years? Did you not know that both Bhutto and NS were their creations. So your sudden found narrative shows either you were dishonest then or dishonest now. Which is it?

 

[Bewal Express]

So Transparency guys say there is no increase in corruption but our dear friends at it with hammer and tongues - hilarious.

These are the same losers that kept telling us that corruption is not a problem, they would rather have corrupt competent people, but alas they couldn't provide any examples of competence and that is after borrowing $64bn and corruption we know from the Panama papers, Munshi on the run, Sharifs on the run, Omni group revelations etc was out of control. Just imagine what he score would have been if the head of TI wasn't on the payroll of NS

 

[uberkoen]

Maybe you can educate yourself because you have been exposed. The TI have said today what Sadiq Jan and others said yesterday. Stop acting intelligent know it all, after you did the same on the MR thread and then ran. Please come back on that thread

The TI have said that their report is based on data from 2015-2018? Can you tell me where they have said this or are you making things up like ARY have been doing?

 

[uberkoen]

So Transparency guys say there is no increase in corruption but our dear friends at it with hammer and tongues - hilarious.

I think you are missing the point. There is no increase in corruption as such however the decrease in the score and rankings shows that we have not improved the one thing that Imran Khan was elected for and the one thing he promised to rid us of within 90 days. The difference from last year to this year has no statistical significance indeed however, for the first time in 10 years we have not only scored lower but have also dropped our position which means while other countries continue to make improvements we have done nothing on corruption and that is the point being discussed.

 

[Bewal Express]

The TI have said that their report is based on data from 2015-2018? Can you tell me where they have said this or are you making things up like ARY have been doing?

So you the guy that asked for evidence on MR link with the Sharifs for a week and when it was provided, you ran off, are accusing others of making things up. I have heard it all.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think you are missing the point. There is no increase in corruption as such however the decrease in the score and rankings shows that we have not improved the one thing that Imran Khan was elected for and the one thing he promised to rid us of within 90 days. The difference from last year to this year has no statistical significance indeed however, for the first time in 10 years we have not only scored lower but have also dropped our position which means while other countries continue to make improvements we have done nothing on corruption and that is the point being discussed.

But you said the PTI and IK were more corrupt and the report proved it. Another Uturn!

 

[uberkoen]

These are the same losers that kept telling us that corruption is not a problem, they would rather have corrupt competent people, but alas they couldn't provide any examples of competence and that is after borrowing $64bn and corruption we know from the Panama papers, Munshi on the run, Sharifs on the run, Omni group revelations etc was out of control. Just imagine what he score would have been if the head of TI wasn't on the payroll of NS

If you're not able to find any competence in the major development projects conducted by PPP and PMLN you must be extremely disappointed in the single major development done under PTI the Peshawer BRT is a major major mess.

 

[uberkoen]

But you said the PTI and IK were more corrupt and the report proved it. Another Uturn!

Please read my post again I said "PTI are the same as PMLN if not more corrupt based on the fact that rankings and score has decreased" time and time again I've said regardless of the statistical significance of the score it is a shame that there has been no improvement on the corruption front which was the mandate that got IK elected. As per the report, things have receded rather than improving.

 

[uberkoen]

So you the guy that asked for evidence on MR link with the Sharifs for a week and when it was provided, you ran off, are accusing others of making things up. I have heard it all.

I asked for evidence. How is that making things up?

Again, where did TI say that the score that was given to Pakistan was entirely based on data from 2015-2018. Please share this.

 

[Bewal Express]

A simple knee-jerk reaction from PTI supporters who were salty that TI had exposed PTI’s corruption(or so we thought).

Still, this entire thread has backfired on PMLN and the ”never-Imranists” now that TI has come clean and explained that corruption hasn’t increased since PTI assumed power. https://www.dawn.com/news/1530678/r...ease-in-corruption-transparency-international

Anyways, PTI supporters had the last laugh, even if some reactions from the PTI camp were immature and ridiculous when they claimed that TI was on Noora payroll.

At the end of the day, the Nooras are the ones who got humiliated. Thank you Transparency International indeed.

Not TI, the head of TI. And that is fact.

 

[Bewal Express]

I asked for evidence. How is that making things up?

Again, where did TI say that the score that was given to Pakistan was entirely based on data from 2015-2018. Please share this.

It wasn't and stop trying to look clever you are not, we know that from the MR thread. Most of the scores were the same, the decreased scores came from the Noora era.
Today Dawn, who literally twist everything against the PTI have said as much. Your agenda has led to your humiliation and the TI confirmed it.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Please read my post again I said "PTI are the same as PMLN if not more corrupt based on the fact that rankings and score has decreased" time and time again I've said regardless of the statistical significance of the score it is a shame that there has been no improvement on the corruption front which was the mandate that got IK elected. As per the report, things have receded rather than improving.

PML N should not get credit/blame for the 2018 score since they were only in power until May. There last full year the score was the same as it is in 2019. If anyone should get credit it is the interim government, since thats the difference between 2017 and 2019.

You should let PTI finish there term before you say there are the same or worse than PML N. One year is not enough time.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What brilliant insight. You're an amazing analyst but unfortunately that's not how it works what the scores show is that efforts were made year on year to improve and decrease corruption up until PTI came into power where those efforts have receded and perceived corruption has increased.

You can give PML N credit from having a decent increase in score from the last year of PPP government. Lets see how much PTI can improve the score by the 2022 rankings.

 

[AdamM97]

Have you ever considered that majority of PTI voters are just normal people who are fed up of corrupt dynastic politics that has destroyed the country and are fed up of the few corrupt individuals who come here and spout rubbish??

The corrupt call it a cult and that’s natural because they have no defence.

I understand the frustration, but at times, PTI-supporters(like any other supporter base) can say silly things and come across as arrogant and intolerant, I say this as a PTI-supporter myself. We should be more open to genuine criticism (although a lot of criticism of PTI on this forum is done in bad faith).

 

[pakistanisgreat]

I understand the frustration, but at times, PTI-supporters(like any other supporter base) can say silly things and come across as arrogant and intolerant, I say this as a PTI-supporter myself. We should be more open to genuine criticism (although a lot of criticism of PTI on this forum is done in bad faith).

Good post.
i agree with. We all have difference of opinion, however, we need to respect each other's point of view. The language is being used here on this forum from both sides is unacceptable. People forget manners just for support of other people. At the end of day neither NL nor PTI leaders know we are fighting and defending them.

 

[kk1992]

Good post.
i agree with. We all have difference of opinion, however, we need to respect each other's point of view. The language is being used here on this forum from both sides is unacceptable. People forget manners just for support of other people. At the end of day neither NL nor PTI leaders know we are fighting and defending them.

Can't respect made up agenda driven points.

Point of view based on merit should be.

As Adam has said, lot of criticism of PTI on this forum is done in bad faith.

 

[Technics 1210]

Again, same old tactics. Never acknowledge the truth instead try to divert the discussion by asking pointless questions.

The truth is that perception and reality are two different things. The index in the OP is based on perception.

You and wonder kid are trying to palm off the incumbent Pakistan government as the most corrupt in Pakistan's history based on a perception index?

Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Mian]

The truth is that perception and reality are two different things. The index in the OP is based on perception.

You and wonder kid are trying to palm off the incumbent Pakistan government as the most corrupt in Pakistan's history based on a perception index?

Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

And these are the same guys who defend Nawaz Maryam and co even after they are convicted. In PTI case a perception is a benchmark not fact or conviction! and even the perception report was misleading TI just clarified it.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Without any achievements to list and any promises kept, its Imran Khan & his supporters who are scrapping the bottom.

If not, list what ‘exactly’ has he achieved? No smoke and mirrors, just talk facts.