What's new

What drives India ahead of Pakistan despite similar corruption woes?

SportsWarrior said:
Becasuse most of Indians consider Buddhism as part of dharmic religion. For most budha is just another one of god/guru, one among literally thousands. Heck, I know many hindus who worship Jesus at home like other Hindu gods like below
View attachment 143079

Even Ramakrishna Mission, does puja to Jesus
View attachment 143080

As far as most are considered they are just another god in the long list gods. I know multiple family members who are staunch Hindus who pray to all Gods including Jesus and visit Darga

So for most when they say Hindutwa they just mean their way of life and less about religion
Click to expand...
In Polytheistic religions, there is always room on the bench to add more deities. You can see this in old Roman and Greek Pantheon of Gods too. The Vedic God Mithra found a place in Roman Pantheon. Even Zoroastrianism which is believed to be Monotheistic found a place for Mithra.

Mithraism was quite popular in Persian Empire and Roman Empire before Christianity came into the picture.
 
nah i think the problem is multi faceted. pakistan's millenial and boomer generation weren't bill gates either. sincerity, education, work ethic, hands not being tied are some of the reasons that have contributed to it.
JaDed said:
Because generation X (I’m a millennial) of India was more productive than that of Pakistan.
And now it will exponentially improve due to proper digital economy (still far off )
Click to expand...
 

Indian banks to step up IT spends as regulatory scrutiny rises​


Indian banks' plan to increase their technology spending to around 10% of their operating expenses to keep up with the surge in digital transactions as the central bank intensifies scrutiny on frequent outages, more than half a dozen bankers said.

Banks were earlier spending between 6%-8% of total operating expenditure on technology, sharply below the global average of 10%-12%.

However, increased scrutiny of banks' IT systems by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) over the past year and the recent sanctions imposed on Kotak Mahindra Bank due to technology-related deficiencies are forcing lenders to take the regulator's concerns more seriously.

The RBI has frequently directed banks to reduce tech-related glitches that disrupt customers' ability to transact, five bankers said, declining to be identified as they are not authorised to speak to the media.

As operating expenses have grown over the years, Kotak Mahindra Bank spent "significantly" more on technology, Ashok Vaswani, MD and CEO of Kotak Mahindra Bank, said in a post-earnings press conference.

However, "what is evident, is that our efforts have fallen short of what the regulator expects," Vaswani said.

India's banking and investment services firms were estimated to have spent $11.3 billion on technology in 2023, according to latest available data from Gartner.

"We believe in today's world, systems cannot be down and you have to create online, real-time systems to match the capabilities," said Sumant Kathpalia, CEO at private lender IndusInd Bank, which currently spends about 8%-10% of cost-to-income on IT-related expenses.

"We have invested and will continue to invest in these," he said.

The increased investment will go towards upgrading core systems which form the backbone of all banking operations, and on better monitoring of digital frauds, protecting customer data and tech-driven processes for customer verification, the bankers said.

Other private lenders like ICICI Bank, Axis Bank, Yes Bank , and Kotak Mahindra Bank, at post earnings events recently said they will increase IT spending to deal with rising digital activity, including transactions via India's home-grown payments system Unified Payments Interface.

In discussions with lenders, RBI has noted that the banking system is not adequately prepared to handle the growth in digital banking transactions, one of these bankers said.

The RBI did not immediately respond to email queries.

"Most banks' core banking systems are quite dated now so they are now assessing whether the systems can handle the rise in digital activity," said Rohan Lakhiyar, partner at consultancy firm Grant Thornton Bharat's financial services risk division.

The other focus area, for both banks and the RBI, is cyber-security since each new technology integration that banks complete also raises an operational risk, Lakhiyar added.

"Banks' plans to increase their IT spends seem to be on the back of RBI's more stringent approach to tech issues and the need to upgrade backend systems as banks increasingly source customers digitally," Amit Khurana, head of equities at Dolat Capital said.

 
When we look at Pakistan in comparison, it's clear that India's banks are investing more in technology to keep up with digital trends. By spending more on IT and upgrading their systems, Indian banks are improving efficiency and customer service. Pakistan's banks could learn from this and invest more in technology to stay competitive.
 
PM, Gautam Adani, Mukesh Ambani Reshaping India Into Economic Superpower: Report

India is poised to become a 21st-century economic powerhouse, offering an alternative to China for investors looking for growth and for reducing supply chain risks with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and industrialists Gautam Adani and Mukesh Ambani playing a fundamental role in shaping the economic superpower the country will become in the coming decades, according to a CNN report.

The report says to spur growth, the Modi government has begun a massive infrastructure transformation by spending billions on building roads, ports, airports and railways.

It is also heavily promoting digital connectivity, which can improve both commerce and daily life.

"Both Mr Adani and Mr Ambani have become key allies as the country embarks on this revolution," it said.

Worth $3.7 trillion in 2023, India is the world's fifth largest economy, jumping four spots in the rankings during PM Modi's decade in office and leapfrogging the United Kingdom.

"It is comfortably placed to expand at an annual rate of at least 6 per cent in the coming few years, but analysts say the country should be targeting growth of eight per cent or more if it wants to become an economic superpower. Sustained expansion will push India higher up the ranks of the world's biggest economies, with some observers forecasting the South Asian nation to become number three behind only the US and China by 2027," the CNN analysis said.

The Adani Group and Reliance Industries - the two sprawling conglomerates having valuations worth over $200 billion each - have established businesses in sectors ranging from fossil fuels and clean energy to media and technology.

"Investors have been cheering the duo's ability to adroitly bet on sectors prioritised for development by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, currently campaigning for his third consecutive term to lead India. The South Asian country is poised to become a 21st-century economic powerhouse, offering a real alternative to China for investors hunting for growth and manufacturers looking to reduce risks in their supply chains," the report said.

"As a result, these three men -- PM Modi, Mr Ambani and Mr Adani -- are playing a fundamental role in shaping the economic superpower India will become in the coming decades," it added.

The report also pointed out that the kind of power and influence being enjoyed by the two Indian tycoons has been seen before in other countries "experiencing periods of rapid industrialisation."

It said that both Mr Adani and Mr Ambani are often compared by journalists to John D Rockefeller, who became America's first billionaire during the Gilded Age, a 30-year period in the last decades of the 19th century.

"India is in the middle of something that America and lots of other countries have already gone through. Britain in the 1820s, South Korea in the 1960s and 70s, and you could argue China in the 2000s," said James Crabtree, the author of The Billionaire Raj, a book about India's wealthy.

Mumbai, which is considered India's financial capital, has the imprint of the two tycoons everywhere, from high-rise apartment buildings branded with Adani Realty to cultural institutions named after the Ambani clan, and even the international airport, which is operated by Adani.

"Some spaces need no names or bright labels, but their affiliations are just as obvious. Everyone in Mumbai knows who lives in Antilia -- the personal skyscraper of Ambani and his family, which reportedly cost $2 billion to build and boasts a spa, three helipads and a 50-seat theatre. The 27-story building sits on a street dubbed 'Billionaires' Row,' its jutting geometric architecture looming over the neighbourhood."

The CNN report also mentions the grand pre-wedding celebration of Mukesh Ambani's son Anant Ambani in March this year, when billionaires and movie stars from around the world jetted to Jamnagar.

Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Ivanka Trump were among the many high-profile celebrities in attendance. The three-day celebration, which saw performances by popstar Rihanna and magician David Blaine, transfixed India and further underscored Mr Ambani's growing global clout.

Guido Cozzi, professor of macroeconomics at the University of St Gallen in Switzerland, said these "conglomerates are very, very important and very well connected," noting that both the Adani Group and Reliance Industries were founded years before PM Modi came to power.

"They are not typical stagnant monopolistic conglomerates. They are pretty dynamic," Mr Cozzi said.

Not only are they playing "an important role" in building infrastructure, which helps "growth directly," but the two business groups are also helping the country expand "indirectly" by boosting connectivity through digital innovation, he explained.

Reliance was founded by Mr Ambani's father, Dhirubhai, as a small yarn trading firm in Mumbai in 1957. Over the next few decades, it grew into a colossal conglomerate spanning energy, petrochemicals and telecommunications.

Mukesh Ambani has not only upended India's telecom sector in less than a decade but also become a top player in sectors ranging from media to retail.

The report says that Mukesh Ambani's ambition and breathless pace of expansion is matched by Mr Adani, "...who now helms businesses ranging from ports and power to defence and aerospace".

A first-generation entrepreneur, the 62-year-old began his career with diamond trading, before setting up a commodity trading business in 1988, which later evolved into Adani Enterprises Limited (AEL).

According to a January note by American brokerage firm Cantor Fitzgerald, AEL "is at the core of everything India wants to accomplish."

The company functions as an incubator for Mr Adani's businesses. Many have been spun out and become leading players in their respective sectors. According to Cantor, the firm's current focus on airports, roads and energy make it "a unique long-term investment opportunity".

The report notes that while both the barons built much of their fortune from fossil fuels, they are now investing billions in clean energy. Notably, their green energy pivot comes at a time when India has set itself some ambitious climate goals.

The report also notes that despite India's success in terms of growth rate, soaring youth unemployment and inequality remain stubbornly persistent problems. In 2022, the country ranked a lowly 147 on gross domestic product (GDP) per person, a measure of living standards, according to the World Bank.

Opposition parties in India have targeted the BJP-led government alleging it has ties with the country's super-rich and over the meteoric rise of Mr Adani.

The report said PM Modi's "perceived relationship with the billionaires" is once again being questioned by rivals during the Lok Sabha polls

Some processes, particularly more transparency in the allocation of India's natural resources and the overhauling of the country's bankruptcy laws, have seen important reforms under PM Modi, he added.

According to report, some experts say that "some amount of closeness" between politicians and business elite "can help in growing the nation faster."

The report also suggests that India needs to encourage entrepreneurship and innovation bringing more firms into the sphere, as a country, where millions of people join the labour force every month, can't be absorbed by a few conglomerates.

"They are phenomenal ... entrepreneurs, who have been able to sustain steady growth and development in a vibrant yet sometimes chaotic political and business environment that exists in India," said Rohit Lamba, an economist at Pennsylvania State University, who is also the co-author of Breaking the Mould, a 2023 book that examines how Indian economy can grow.

"India cannot grow rich before it becomes old on the back of a few big firms like Adani or Ambani...India should make more firms," he added.

The report says India has other conglomerates as well. The 156-year-old Tata Group wields immense power over various key sectors ranging from steel to aviation, but it often does not invite the same scrutiny as the newer conglomerates, mainly because it is controlled by philanthropic trusts and not run as a family dynasty.

India has been the fastest-growing large economy in the last three financial years.

www.ndtv.com

PM, Gautam Adani, Mukesh Ambani Shaping India Into Economic Superpower: Report

India is poised to become a 21st-century economic powerhouse, offering an alternative to China for investors, with PM Narendra Modi and Gautam Adani and Mukesh Ambani playing a key role, a CNN report has said.
www.ndtv.com www.ndtv.com
 
India is emerging as an economic superpower, yet some individuals are leaving the country in pursuit of better livelihoods elsewhere? Some even choose to stay away from India and show their support from outside. :kp :inti
 
Investments in education have resulted in a sizable, globally employable population, thereby bolstering the influx of foreign currency into India. While some attribute this achievement to Modi's leadership, it's worth noting that India was already on its trajectory towards becoming the fifth-largest economy, courtesy of early investments in education dating back to the 1990s.

Pakistan seems to have missed the memo and has yet to prioritize education with the same vigor as India.
 
HalBass9 said:
Investments in education have resulted in a sizable, globally employable population, thereby bolstering the influx of foreign currency into India. While some attribute this achievement to Modi's leadership, it's worth noting that India was already on its trajectory towards becoming the fifth-largest economy, courtesy of early investments in education dating back to the 1990s.

Pakistan seems to have missed the memo and has yet to prioritize education with the same vigor as India.
Click to expand...
Education up until 2010s was still job oriented, but thanks to internet it has gotten better but far from practical.

Sri Lankan education on other hand is actually best in South Asia yet they faltered so bad economically due to one family.
 

India's June exports rise 5.4% y/y; government expects $800 bln in FY25​


NEW DELHI, July 15 (Reuters) - India's goods and services exports likely rose 5.4% year-on-year to $65.47 billion in June, driven by a pick-up in orders that could push total exports to $800 billion in the current fiscal year ending in March 2025, the trade secretary said on Monday.
Merchandise imports (INIMP=ECI), opens new tab in Asia's third-largest economy rose 5% to $56.18 billion in the same month, reflecting a pick-up in domestic demand for industrial machinery and gold imports.

Merchandise exports (INEXP=ECI), opens new tab were up 2.6% on year to $35.2 billion in June.
The goods trade deficit narrowed to $20.98 billion in June from $23.78 billion in May. Analysts had expected a deficit of $21.5 billion, according to a Reuters poll.
"India’s total exports in the first quarter of 2024/25 have crossed $200 billion and, if this trend continues, we hope this fiscal year’s exports cross $800 billion,” said Trade Secretary Sunil Barthwal, releasing the monthly trade figures.

He said growth in merchandise exports was driven by engineering, electronic goods and pharmaceuticals, and that the April-June quarter posted a record high in exports.
India's goods and services exports rose to $778.2 billion in fiscal 2024, and the government expects total exports could touch $1 trillion by 2030.
Reuters Graphics

Reuters Graphics
The government also estimated services exports in June at $30.27 billion and imports at $17.29 billion, compared with $29.76 billion and $16.74 billion in May.

 
Trade deficit is still an issue, currently in India, traffic still sucks but everyone is way more ambitious, so many coffee houses open until late with many people working.

I ordered via blink-it morning 5:00 and got everything delivered insane labor availability and apps.

Digital knowledge has really spread from vegetable vendor to tea shop seller, unfortunate internet prices rose now but crazy how everyone is digitally literate now(although cannot figure out fake news from real still).
 
JaDed said:

India's June exports rise 5.4% y/y; government expects $800 bln in FY25​


NEW DELHI, July 15 (Reuters) - India's goods and services exports likely rose 5.4% year-on-year to $65.47 billion in June, driven by a pick-up in orders that could push total exports to $800 billion in the current fiscal year ending in March 2025, the trade secretary said on Monday.
Merchandise imports (INIMP=ECI), opens new tab in Asia's third-largest economy rose 5% to $56.18 billion in the same month, reflecting a pick-up in domestic demand for industrial machinery and gold imports.

Merchandise exports (INEXP=ECI), opens new tab were up 2.6% on year to $35.2 billion in June.
The goods trade deficit narrowed to $20.98 billion in June from $23.78 billion in May. Analysts had expected a deficit of $21.5 billion, according to a Reuters poll.
"India’s total exports in the first quarter of 2024/25 have crossed $200 billion and, if this trend continues, we hope this fiscal year’s exports cross $800 billion,” said Trade Secretary Sunil Barthwal, releasing the monthly trade figures.

He said growth in merchandise exports was driven by engineering, electronic goods and pharmaceuticals, and that the April-June quarter posted a record high in exports.
India's goods and services exports rose to $778.2 billion in fiscal 2024, and the government expects total exports could touch $1 trillion by 2030.
Reuters Graphics

Reuters Graphics
The government also estimated services exports in June at $30.27 billion and imports at $17.29 billion, compared with $29.76 billion and $16.74 billion in May.

Click to expand...
There is definitely a little bit of a mystery about the Indian economy in the last few months. Reserves have been growing but exports have been flattish, FDI isn't booming.

Is all the growth coming from government capex and domestic consumption? We'll have to wait for a few more results this quarter - especially from the consumer goods companies to get a sense.
 
After 2014, Government level corruption decreased drastically in India by implementing schemes like Jana-Dhana accounts.. but beurocrasy level corruption level slightly less that's because of our weak Law.

If India remains in hands of Congress, then today we would have find India-Pakistan at same level
 
Better geography for one thing.

Any nation that has had an open border with Afghanistan for as long as Pakistan did is a gonecase.
 
National pride.

Indians discovered Bharat in their hearts and took enormous pride in it and have been toiling hard for decades to bring back the golden era of Mahabharat.

Pakistanis on the other hand continue to live in an identity crisis. Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are the descendants of people who fought the Mongol, Persian invaders for centuries and yet they have been conditioned through political propaganda to celebrate the people their forefathers fought wars against. Because this fake association with the invaders is so unnatural this is why it’s not worked either to project national pride.
 
India does suck for sure but there is a plan and a trajectory to stop sucking. Honestly I think I have been saying on this forum for years how impressive Indian education system and hunger for success is.

I have seen Indians infiltration on almost every single tech field and they are always a pleasure to work with as well as being technically competent

Here in the UK every MBA program is dominated by Indians too.
 
Bhaijaan said:
National pride.

Indians discovered Bharat in their hearts and took enormous pride in it and have been toiling hard for decades to bring back the golden era of Mahabharat.

Pakistanis on the other hand continue to live in an identity crisis. Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are the descendants of people who fought the Mongol, Persian invaders for centuries and yet they have been conditioned through political propaganda to celebrate the people their forefathers fought wars against. Because this fake association with the invaders is so unnatural this is why it’s not worked either to project national pride.
Click to expand...


I wonder what repels them from taking back their forefathers identity then if that is true? :unsure:

Could make for a good discussion.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I wonder what repels them from taking back their forefathers identity then if that is true? :unsure:

Could make for a good discussion.
Click to expand...

That’s only for Pakistanis to tell. You can share your thoughts on this. We are all interested to hear. Why is national pride non existent in Pakistan.
 
Bhaijaan said:
That’s only for Pakistanis to tell. You can share your thoughts on this. We are all interested to hear. Why is national pride non existent in Pakistan.
Click to expand...

But I didn't make the assertion that Pakistanis suffer from identity crisis due to losing hereditary culture of their forefathers pre-Islam, so how would I know where you are coming from? Just start the ball rolling and I will certainly pitch in once I understand your premise. :)
 

BJP hell-bent on making India's condition worse than Pakistan: Hemant Soren​

Slamming the BJP for "destroying" the Indian economy through "wrong policies", Jharkhand Chief Minister Hemant Soren on Friday said the saffron party was hell-bent on making the country's condition "worse than neighbouring Pakistan". Addressing the assembly on the concluding day of the monsoon session, he accused the BJP of playing "vote-bank politics" by dividing people in the name of religion.

"The country is passing through a difficult phase; the economy is in peril, due to the wrong policies of the BJP-led central government. They are hell-bent on making the country's condition worse than Pakistan," Soren said.

He also said the people of Ayodhya gave a befitting reply to the BJP in the Lok Sabha polls for "dividing the country" on religious lines.

On the Centre's 'Agnipath' scheme, Soren said youths enrolled in it will become "jobless after four years", but the Jharkhand government will provide grants to their kin in case of their death, and compensatory jobs to the family members.

Source: The Economic Times
 
One of the main reasons is political stability and army deference to the civilian system. India was actually doing worse till the 60s and 70s and things were pretty even till the 80s. With the green revolution, both India and Pakistan were no longer worrying about basic food supply.

From the mid 90s, IT sector started to take root in India which created a lot of decent paying jobs and that fuelled ancillary industries increasing purchasing power across the board. The trajectory went steadily up with a few setbacks . Its still a poor country but there is growth and a lot of potential with more B and C cities growing as people and companies look to diversify outside of the metros.

Pakistan could have experienced the same thing had its army not kept meddling in every other election. Ayub Khan was actually a very good ruler and a lot of his policies showed forward thinking. But he still broke a nascent democratic system in its roots . Then either overtly or covertly, the army wielded a lot of power and never let the political system be independent.
 
There is no identity crisis; the issue lies in the lack of investment in education. A select few perpetuate wealth disparity to maintain their privileged lifestyles.

Once this problem is addressed, Pakistanis will be in a position to impart lessons on identity to others.
Bhaijaan said:
National pride.

Indians discovered Bharat in their hearts and took enormous pride in it and have been toiling hard for decades to bring back the golden era of Mahabharat.

Pakistanis on the other hand continue to live in an identity crisis. Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are the descendants of people who fought the Mongol, Persian invaders for centuries and yet they have been conditioned through political propaganda to celebrate the people their forefathers fought wars against. Because this fake association with the invaders is so unnatural this is why it’s not worked either to project national pride.
Click to expand...
 
The trajectories of India and Pakistan are a case study in contrasts. Both nations have obviously grappled with significant challenges since their inception in 1947, including widespread corruption. India has managed to forge ahead on the global stage, while Pakistan remains mired in economic and political instability. One thing that stands out to me over the last few years is unity and regional development.
India, despite its vast diversity, has always maintained a stronger sense of national unity compared to Pakistan. Maybe that’s just my opinion, or it’s because they are a behemoth population wise but you can see it in how they behave, even their ordinary keyboard warriors. When I look at their states like Maharashtra, Karnataka, and Tamil Nadu, they’re economic powerhouses, fostering growth in IT, manufacturing, etc. In contrast, Pakistan’s provinces appear fragmented and neglected. Balochistan, for example, is rich in natural resources but is probably worse than Ethiopia development wise. On top of that, the lack of development and political / sectarian marginalization continues to fuel unrest. Balochistan should have been fuelling our economic engine through natural resource extraction.

When I compare cities, Karachi, once considered the "jewel" of Asian port cities, now struggles with crime, poor infrastructure, and administrative inefficiencies. In contrast, Mumbai, and tons of other cities have seen substantial investment in infrastructure and urban planning. This attracts tourists and multinational corporations which further spurs economic growth.

Pakistani tourism in the northern areas remains largely inaccessible due to poor infrastructure and security concerns. The regions has so much potential to drive tourism and attract foreign investment, kind of like Himachal Pradesh in some ways but inadequate investment and governance leaves all that potential on the table.

One of the biggest differences I can see every day is ‘soft power.’ India has adeptly utilized its cultural assets to build soft power on the global stage. Bollywood, plays a crucial role in promoting Indian culture, values, and narratives worldwide. All Pakistan gets is ISPR sanctioned propaganda. We have no comparable platform to project our soft power globally. Nothing we have comes close.

The role of the military is obvious and has been mentioned above as a well. Let’s face it, they’re not going away no matter what. The issue is they’re also dumb. Compare Pakistan military to Thailand which has also experienced extensive periods of military rule. It has managed to maintain a degree of economic growth and stability. The Thai military has generally allowed economic policies to be driven by technocrats and has supported infrastructure development and tourism. Those are crucial to Thailand’s economy. They get what they want but don’t burn the country down in the process.

I’d say, India, despite corruption and bureaucratic challenges, have kept their democratic institutions relatively stable and resilient. This has fostered at least on the surface, a sense of political stability and continuity, which is essential for long-term economic planning and foreign investment. On top of that, they have a cohesive national identity. Pakistan, on the other hand, faces the compounded challenges of regional disparities, military dominance in politics, and underutilization of its natural and cultural resources. Everyone is it in for themselves first, country last.
 
HalBass9 said:
There is no identity crisis; the issue lies in the lack of investment in education. A select few perpetuate wealth disparity to maintain their privileged lifestyles.

Once this problem is addressed, Pakistanis will be in a position to impart lessons on identity to others.
Click to expand...

What is Pakistans identity? Trying to pretend that you are the sher khans that "conquered" India fell through when modern day science Revealed that your DNA is exactly that of any avg Indian .... worse its identical to the daal/chawal eating Indians.
 
FearlessRoar said:
What sort of combination is this?And how is it related to the progress of India?
Click to expand...

I can explain but you will never ever Understand. Why? Because you have to be capable of setting aside your utterly religion Driven perspective which is just brute binary. Your life circumstances prevent you from that.

unless and until you realize that the world will never be Binary in matters of faith and many Other topics you will continue to scratch your head wondering why people who look like you and talk like you are soo much more successful.
 
HalBass9 said:
There is no identity crisis; the issue lies in the lack of investment in education. A select few perpetuate wealth disparity to maintain their privileged lifestyles.

Once this problem is addressed, Pakistanis will be in a position to impart lessons on identity to others.
Click to expand...

What is the Pakistani identity then. Bother to tell us.
 
uppercut said:
What is Pakistans identity? Trying to pretend that you are the sher khans that "conquered" India fell through when modern day science Revealed that your DNA is exactly that of any avg Indian .... worse its identical to the daal/chawal eating Indians.
Click to expand...
Once again, you're assuming, not your fault, it has everything to do with your environment that give you an excuse to hate anyone who is Muslim of Indian origin.
 
uppercut said:
What is Pakistans identity? Trying to pretend that you are the sher khans that "conquered" India fell through when modern day science Revealed that your DNA is exactly that of any avg Indian .... worse its identical to the daal/chawal eating Indians.
Click to expand...

When it comes to identity crisis, Pakistani awaam wins the gold medal by far.

You ask 10 random Pakistanis about their identity and just wait till the fun starts.
 
HalBass9 said:
Pakistani are Punjabi, Sindhi, Balouchi, Pashtu, Mohaji, etc but yet to be Pakistani.
Click to expand...
Pakistani is just a passport identity. The real identity which Pakistanis should identify by is muslim identity. Pakistani can be just a flavour, but the cake should be muslim.

Remember the words of Allama.

Yun To Syed Bhi Ho, Mirza Bhi Ho, Afghan Bhi Ho
Tum Sabhi Kuch Ho, Batao To Musalman Bhi Ho!
 
Bhaijaan said:
When it comes to identity crisis, Pakistani awaam wins the gold medal by far.

You ask 10 random Pakistanis about their identity and just wait till the fun starts.
Click to expand...
For the ideological founders, it was always muslim identity. Later some changed it to subcontinental muslim identity. After fall of Dacca, there was a new school of thought to deal with present realities, and that was the original people of indus valley to show continuity of history (Indus Saga book written to find a new identity). There is a strand which believes they share commonality with indians, another which believes they are middle eastern and central asian.

The real identity, which is left to no ambiguity, and can be the most potent unifying force, is muslim identity. I don't know why some new age Pakistanis are in search of a manufactured identity, when they have the best one right there.
 
HalBass9 said:
Once again, you're assuming, not your fault, it has everything to do with your environment that give you an excuse to hate anyone who is Muslim of Indian origin.
Click to expand...


No assumptions at all ... if you are not aware Of what I am talking about just ask for clarifications before diving head first into a dry swimming pool.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Pakistani is just a passport identity. The real identity which Pakistanis should identify by is muslim identity. Pakistani can be just a flavour, but the cake should be muslim.

Remember the words of Allama.

Yun To Syed Bhi Ho, Mirza Bhi Ho, Afghan Bhi Ho
Tum Sabhi Kuch Ho, Batao To Musalman Bhi Ho!
Click to expand...
I am confuse, what are you trying to say here? majority of Pakistani do not identify themselves as Muslims?
 
uppercut said:
No assumptions at all ... if you are not aware Of what I am talking about just ask for clarifications before diving head first into a dry swimming pool.
Click to expand...
Sir Jii, then explain to me what would you think my identity should be as Pakistani :)
 
HalBass9 said:
I am confuse, what are you trying to say here? majority of Pakistani do not identify themselves as Muslims?
Click to expand...
I am saying that even the ideological founder wanted people to focus on muslim identity. Then why are pakistanis like you trying to create new identities.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I am saying that even the ideological founder wanted people to focus on muslim identity. Then why are pakistanis like you trying to create new identities.
Click to expand...
I am not, I identify as Pakistani Muslims, whose grandparents were born in India before 1947, whose ancestors at some point used to be Hindu that later reverted to Islam.

where is the confusion?

Most educated Pakistani are aware of our ancestral history.

Trying to figure out where are Indian confused about Pakistani identity?
 
HalBass9 said:
I am confuse, what are you trying to say here? majority of Pakistani do not identify themselves as Muslims?
Click to expand...
Do you believe most Pakistanis subscribe to the couplet.

Pakistan ka matlab kya, La Illaha Illal Allah

If so, it's tricky to distinguish yourself and establish an identity different from so many other Muslim nations
 
HalBass9 said:
Sir Jii, then explain to me what would you think my identity should be as Pakistani :)
Click to expand...

Former Indian that is trying hard to be not Indian due to the circumstances involving your country. You just cannot wish away and abandon 1000s of years of legacy.
 
uppercut said:
Former Indian that is trying hard to be not Indian due to the circumstances involving your country. You just cannot wish away and abandon 1000s of years of legacy.
Click to expand...
There you go, to you, Indian = Hindu.

Got it. and if that person is not hindu anymore then that person has no identity anymore.
 
India is experiencing financial/economic success but they are degrading fast in terms of morality.

I also believe economic success of India is a bit deceptive. I believe India didn't report COVID figures correctly. How can we be sure India are reporting their economic growth figures correctly? They still have a huge number of poor people (along with toilet shortages).

Pakistan was harmed by America's war on terror. It spilled over into Pakistan and caused many issues.
 
HalBass9 said:
There you go, to you, Indian = Hindu.

Got it. and if that person is not hindu anymore then that person has no identity anymore.
Click to expand...

The general dire state of your country is evidence of what happens when you start hating your legacy and try to adopt the ways of your Arab/Persian/Turkish conquerors. A classic case of Stockholm syndrome that is generational and will not end in your lifetime.

In fact they should rename that term to Pakistani syndrome.
 
This is a hypothesis of mine which I formed mostly by reading the comments of the Pakistani posters here, so a big chance that it's wrong. Nevertheless I think the main difference between India and Pakistan lies in what the people value more as qualities. I think Pakistani people value courage, strength and ideological steadfastness most. These are admirable qualities, but a nation is not going to benefit much from them in the modern age. These qualities were much more valuable in middle age. Indians in comparison value intelligence, cunning, soft diplomacy more. These qualities are much more suitable for the modern age.
 
uppercut said:
Former Indian that is trying hard to be not Indian due to the circumstances involving your country. You just cannot wish away and abandon 1000s of years of legacy.
Click to expand...
Lol, I do not practice Hinduism if that is what you are referring as trying hard not to be Indian?

And same goes to Indian Bhaijaans of this discussion, if that is what they meant by identity crises?

Because culturally, Pakistani and Indians are similar and majority of Pakistani are quite aware of that, at least the people I interact with.

I was never Indian, I’m not that old, my grandparents were Indian Pakistani :)
 
uppercut said:
The general dire state of your country is evidence of what happens when you start hating your legacy and try to adopt the ways of your Arab/Persian/Turkish conquerors. A classic case of Stockholm syndrome that is generational and will not end in your lifetime.

In fact they should rename that term to Pakistani syndrome.
Click to expand...

The dire state of Pakistan can be attributed to poor governance, a lack of investment in education, and an elite class intent on keeping a large portion of the population subservient. It has nothing to do with religion.

The same Pakistani who preserves their religion and Indian cultural heritage thrives in environments where good governance and equal opportunity prevail.

While most Pakistanis are Muslims, they neither eat like Arabs, Turks, or Persians, nor do they dress or marry like them. In fact, some of us could give Indians a run for their money when it comes to dancing to Bollywood songs at weddings! :)

So, why the perpetual angst over the fact that at one point in Indian history, many Indians converted to Islam, and their descendants continue to practice Islam while preserving their Indian heritage as citizens of Pakistan?
 
The most important factor in the development of a country , success of a company is continuity of policies, Pakistan always got hiccups and everything went back to square 1, whereas Indian politicians are free in their decision making thus making it easier for economy to prosper.
 
Interesting bit of news today that both shows how far India has come and how much further it has to go.
Screenshot_2024-08-04-17-25-35-32_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

India has broken into the top 5 of global manufacturing countries passing South Korea, a country we used to look at with such awe. Legendary countries like Japan and Germany are within sights.

And yet China produces 10 times as much as India!
 
We owe it to our parents and grandparents who got themselves educated inspite of all the hardships, and pretty good education system, which in most areas was/is at par with the developed world. The sacrifices those guys made has resulted in the 350-400 million middle class of today, which is carrying India through. And credit goes to Nehru and the leaders that followed for building the right foundation for India for the first 40 years. As much as we hate our politicians, no one can deny that most of them have done a decent job in the last 35 years on the economic front. Finally, we never let religion define our identity.
 

The no curse of IMF drives India ahead​

====

Govt accepts IMF bar on new SEZs​

In a major development, Pakistan has accepted the International Monetary Fund (IMF) condition that it will not establish any new special economic or export processing zone and tax incentives already availed by the existing zones will not be extended after expiry.

The IMF's condition under the $7 billion Extended Fund Facility (EFF), which is yet to be approved, will immediately hurt the government's plans to establish an export processing zone (EPZ) on a piece of land of the closed Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM).

Government sources said that the IMF had asked Pakistan that it would not create any new special economic zone (SEZ) or EPZ. The condition will be applicable to both federal and provincial governments. However, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa has refused to accept it.

Such conditions underscore how deeply the IMF has captured Pakistan's economic and industrial policies, which could adversely impact future growth prospects and the desire to bring Chinese industries to these zones.

The government has accepted scores of IMF conditions, including the imposition of a record Rs1.8 trillion in new taxes and the increase in electricity prices up to 51%. However, despite these harsh measures, along with the conditions that will give control of industrial policies to the IMF, Pakistan has not yet been able to secure a date for approval of the $7 billion bailout package.

Talks for the EFF had begun in May this year, which culminated with a staff-level agreement in early July. But despite the lapse of two months, there is no clarity about the date of IMF's executive board meeting.

SEZs and EPZs are entitled to special facilities and tax incentives aimed at encouraging businesses to establish clusters of commercial activities. Finance secretary said last month that Pakistan's unemployment rate was over 10.3% while poverty grew to 40%.

Sources said that the IMF condition would adversely impact the government's earlier decision to establish an export zone on PSM land. The Special Investment Facilitation Council (SIFC) has already approved the idea of setting up an EPZ over the land of steel mills.

However, the government of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa has refused to accept the ban on setting up new economic zones.

Industrial expansion is a provincial subject and backward provinces like Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa need cheap industrial zones, economic zones and export zones to lure industries, Muzammil Aslam, Adviser on Finance to the Chief Minister, told The Express Tribune.

Aslam said that even in the developed world every state had different tax policies and provinces needed to compete with infrastructure and taxation. "The IMF cannot dictate on this front," said the adviser.

The dominance of finance ministry in negotiations with the IMF at the expense of planning ministry's role has led to the acceptance of such conditions that may appear fiscally prudent but carry huge socio-economic costs.

In the past, the Planning Commission used to play an important role in IMF talks but the Ministry of Finance has now sidelined the commission, which is resulting in acceptance of conditions having serious economic implications.

Sources said that the government also agreed that Pakistan would not provide any new fiscal incentives to the new and existing economic zones and would not renew the existing incentives.

Under the SEZ Act, investors are entitled to exemption from income tax for 10 years for zone developers, co-developers and zone enterprises.

There is also a one-off exemption from all customs duties and taxes on the import of capital goods for zone developers, co-developers and zone enterprises.


During the last fiscal year, the government gave Rs7 billion worth of exemptions to the zone developers.

Source: The Express Tribune
 
Issue is very fundamental but very few pay attention to this. I had a long thread about it in past in PP and a very few wanted to discuss that. India is not that far ahead right now but future direction will widen the gap by a very large margin.

Reason is this, You can't have a situation where 20-40% primary aged kids are out of school. I am surprised that this issue has not been the hot issue in Pakistan. Even in PP, very few talk about it.

Focus in Pakistan should be to put kids in school.



The countries with the highest out-of-school rates
OOSKidsMap.jpg


 
Buffet said:
Issue is very fundamental but very few pay attention to this. I had a long thread about it in past in PP and a very few wanted to discuss that. India is not that far ahead right now but future direction will widen the gap by a very large margin.

Reason is this, You can't have a situation where 20-40% primary aged kids are out of school. I am surprised that this issue has not been the hot issue in Pakistan. Even in PP, very few talk about it.

Focus in Pakistan should be to put kids in school.



The countries with the highest out-of-school rates
View attachment 146149


Click to expand...
Yep Pakistan governments need to work on this.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
The Pak govt has no reason to work on it since they know the public vote does not count for much in a society where the establishment is not answerable to the electorate.
Click to expand...
Yep. Why educate people? That makes them tougher to control. The establishment will be held accountable for their decisions. The people might also have revolutionary ideas. It is systemstic and purposeful.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
The Pak govt has no reason to work on it since they know the public vote does not count for much in a society where the establishment is not answerable to the electorate.
Click to expand...
Probably true.

In normal case, where election takes place transparently, putting kids in school can become a hot issue and then every party will be forced to work on this. This is just robbing the future of kids who are born in poor families.

Any one of us could have been born in poor family in any part of the world. We don't chose our parents or place of birth. But if some one is born in a poor family in certain parts of the world then you have a very low chance to do well in life due to not getting even primary education.
 
Buffet said:
Issue is very fundamental but very few pay attention to this. I had a long thread about it in past in PP and a very few wanted to discuss that. India is not that far ahead right now but future direction will widen the gap by a very large margin.

Reason is this, You can't have a situation where 20-40% primary aged kids are out of school. I am surprised that this issue has not been the hot issue in Pakistan. Even in PP, very few talk about it.

Focus in Pakistan should be to put kids in school.



The countries with the highest out-of-school rates
View attachment 146149


Click to expand...
Its all about priorities of the people!
Pakistan's metrics defy logic.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Its all about priorities of the people!
Pakistan's metrics defy logic.
Click to expand...
I think most people would want to educate their kids.

Its a systematic problem. If you look at the map, a very large percentage of out-of-school kids happen to live in Sub Saharan Africa and Pakistan. I really doubt that so many parents don't want to educate kids. It's not even about poverty because India, SL, Nepal, BD etc are not some rich country. It's a sign extremely rotten system to have 20-40% kids out of school in current era.

Pakistan can learn from what countries like Nepal, BD, India etc have done and try to copy it.
 
The fundamental difference between India and Pakistan is that Indian people have been by and large able to select who governs them and be able to vote them out in favour of someone whom the Indian people deem to be better.

People of Pakistan have never had this choice for most of its independence.

Indian people can punish Modi Government and reduce their majority or even throw them out while people of Pakistan cannot do any such thing, democracy remains an illusive concept for people of Pakistan.

Pakistan military has framed everything in a "Security context" and dictated all choices.
 
LordJames said:
The fundamental difference between India and Pakistan is that Indian people have been by and large able to select who governs them and be able to vote them out in favour of someone whom the Indian people deem to be better.

People of Pakistan have never had this choice for most of its independence.

Indian people can punish Modi Government and reduce their majority or even throw them out while people of Pakistan cannot do any such thing, democracy remains an illusive concept for people of Pakistan.

Pakistan military has framed everything in a "Security context" and dictated all choices.
Click to expand...
+1

It's a problem with system in place. Transparent elections will make government accountable to people.
 
Have always said this. Lack of education and illiteracy is the bane of any country.
 
deltexas said:
Have always said this. Lack of education and illiteracy is the bane of any country.
Click to expand...
agreed!

Education actually broadens your perspective to make better decisions for yourself but in Pakistan people seem to be stuck in a loop and unable to identify what is right and what is wrong for them.
 
LordJames said:
The fundamental difference between India and Pakistan is that Indian people have been by and large able to select who governs them and be able to vote them out in favour of someone whom the Indian people deem to be better.

People of Pakistan have never had this choice for most of its independence.

Indian people can punish Modi Government and reduce their majority or even throw them out while people of Pakistan cannot do any such thing, democracy remains an illusive concept for people of Pakistan.

Pakistan military has framed everything in a "Security context" and dictated all choices.
Click to expand...

This also has the knock on effect that people feel like they have no investment in their country since they literally haven't. Not even a vote that counts for anything. You can see it reflected now even in the cricket - supposedly the national game but there is not even a competitive first class scene which generates local rivalries. No one cares because they know that it's all rigged.
 
Buffet said:
Click to expand...
I am pleasantly surprised that India falls in 0 to 5 % category .it shows atleast people are making every effort to see their kid getting educated.I can add one more point too here. Almost in all the states,govt provides free food to the kids in the government schools . it reduces the burden of really poor people quite a bit.
 
Vikram1989 said:
I am pleasantly surprised that India falls in 0 to 5 % category .it shows atleast people are making every effort to see their kid getting educated.I can add one more point too here. Almost in all the states,govt provides free food to the kids in the government schools . it reduces the burden of really poor people quite a bit.
Click to expand...
It's a good idea. Hungry kids can't learn. In US, schools have free food for kids below certain income level as well.
 
One and only one thing, Civil Supremacy.

All the foreign investors and MNCs are clear what to do in India and with who deal with unlike Pakistan
 
Buffet said:
It's a good idea. Hungry kids can't learn. In US, schools have free food for kids below certain income level as well.
Click to expand...
Not sure about who introduced it first.In india, it was introduced in 1950s in Chennai,that's why south Indian kids started picking up much before the north.Kerala, a south indian state achieved 100 percent literacy quite quickly. All the present blooming states like Mumbai, Gujarat(Modi's state),Goa picked it early too
 
India has an elected government in power while Pakistan has other plans in action. That is one of the big differences between India and Pakistan.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
That's been the case since 1947. Pakistan was ahead for the first 50 years easily.
Click to expand...
That was artificial because I think Pakistan made wrong decisions, while India made wise ones, but didn't rush into making them. India took its time to make decisions, which proved to be a more prudent approach
 
FearlessRoar said:
That was artificial because I think Pakistan made wrong decisions, while India made wise ones, but didn't rush into making them. India took its time to make decisions, which proved to be a more prudent approach
Click to expand...
Nope, India made many wrong decisions from socialism to no proper uniform bills.

India was forced to Liberalise in 1991, we didn’t make the decision, we were forced and thankfully N Rao made it and didn’t take us down the gutter like Indira did in 70s.

Shastriji was very near with reforms in 60s before he got killed, we could had been so much ahead, wasted 2 generations thanks to Indira and JP narayan nonsense.
 
JaDed said:
Nope, India made many wrong decisions from socialism to no proper uniform bills.

India was forced to Liberalise in 1991, we didn’t make the decision, we were forced and thankfully N Rao made it and didn’t take us down the gutter like Indira did in 70s.

Shastriji was very near with reforms in 60s before he got killed, we could had been so much ahead, wasted 2 generations thanks to Indira and JP narayan nonsense.
Click to expand...
The loss of LBS was such a fatal blow. We could have been so much richer and better had we liberalised 2 decades ago. Probably even richer than China
 
happydavy said:
We owe it to our parents and grandparents who got themselves educated inspite of all the hardships, and pretty good education system, which in most areas was/is at par with the developed world. The sacrifices those guys made has resulted in the 350-400 million middle class of today, which is carrying India through. And credit goes to Nehru and the leaders that followed for building the right foundation for India for the first 40 years. As much as we hate our politicians, no one can deny that most of them have done a decent job in the last 35 years on the economic front. Finally, we never let religion define our identity.
Click to expand...
Hindus have Saraswati the Goddess of knowledge. As kids we used to put our school books in front of the idol and worship it along with the Goddess. Indian culture has always been about seeking knowledge.

The bolded part is simple, but very powerful.
 
Rs 1.8 billion approved for president, PM’s VVIP planes

Federal Minister for Finance and Revenue Senator Muhammad Aurangzeb chaired the ECC meeting that also several considered proposals from different sectors.

“The ECC considered and approved a Technical Supplementary Grant to the tune of Rs. 1.8 billion to the Ministry of Defence for overhaul of engines of two VVIP aircraft being utilized for state duties with the President and the Prime Minister of Pakistan,” a press statement issued here read.

The ECC considered a proposal from the Ministry of National Food Security & Research for the allocation of domestic and imported wheat stocks of PASSCO among wheat-deficient agencies/regions for Food Year 2024-25.

The ECC discussed the issue threadbare and decided that domestic and imported wheat would be allocated and released by PASSCO based on the allocation ratio decided by ECC on 1st February 2024.

“Till full disposal of imported wheat stock, and all seven wheat-deficit agencies/regions would lift the wheat as per their committed demand during the Food Year 2024-25. The ECC however directed that the wheat to be picked up by agencies/regions be tested beforehand for purpose of quality and fitness for consumption,” the statement added.

The ECC also okayed a proposal from the Ministry of Interior for grant of a Technical Supplementary Grant amounting to Rs. 252.711 million against the same amount surrendered by the Ministry of Housing and Works, for allocation to Capital Development Authority to ensure uninterrupted provision of civic services at the Prime Minister’s Office (Public), Prime Minister’s Office Internal and Prime Minister’s Staff Colony.

The ECC also took up and approved a proposal of Ministry of Interior for the provision of Rs. 2.939 billion as Technical Supplementary Grant to Director General Immigration & Passports for purchase of two e-Passport Personalisation systems and six desktop personalisation machines for uninterrupted and smooth official business of the Directorate in the public interest.

arynews.tv

Rs 1.8 billion approved for president, PM’s VVIP planes

ISLAMABAD: The Economic Coordination Committee (ECC) of the federal cabinet approved Rs 1.8 billion as a technical supplementary grant to overhaul of
arynews.tv arynews.tv
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Why cricket reflects the current state of Pakistan
Replies
9
Views
359
JaDed
JaDed
BouncerGuy
  • Poll
What will it take to start a revolution of the kind we have seen in Bangladesh?
Replies
38
Views
751
anikrc1
A
Bhaijaan
Who are your Top 5 Global Political Leaders of the 21st century
Replies
34
Views
6K
Bhaijaan
Bhaijaan
D
India rules out joining world’s largest trade deal, accuses China of 'very opaque' trade practices
Replies
10
Views
235
IndoorCricket
I
FearlessRoar
Is the reunification of West Pakistan (now Pakistan) and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) practically possible?
2
Replies
158
Views
5K
Champ_Pal
C
Back
Top