[REPORTS] Rift between Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma factions; Ravi Shastri’s role biased

[ak619]

Oh dear lord.

Its like you have badly mistook me for someone else.

Honest mistake but its like you have barely read my posts on this forum.

Chahal over Kuldeep has been going on even when Kuldeep was in red hot form.

What Ganguly did was different. There was a time when Bhajji WAS better. I used to support Bhajji over Kumble at that time.

This is different.

Your perception doesn't align with facts and figures, though.

Both Chahal and Kuldeep has played all their career under Kohli. In fact, Chahal debuted 2-3 series earlier than Kuldeep did.

So pray tell me how, if Kohli was favouring one spinner over the other, that Kuldeep has actually played 2 more ODIs than Chahal?

And while we're at it also please explain why Kuldeep has already played 6 tests while Chahal hasn't even been picked in a test squad yet.

Are you a journalist, by any chance? Because the way you're adding masala to a simple thing sure gives that impression.

 

[Titan24]

Rohit being a capable leader must have felt on many occasions that things could have been done differently, obviously as Kohli was the captain he had the final say. However, when team looses and a senior player like Rohit feels things could have been done better (If he is right or wrong in his estimation of himself is another matter), its obvious that there will be bit of blame games not necessarily at a major level but still.

The thing is whole team wants to win especially the senior players like Rohit who was playing at his peak and nobody knows if he will still play or be good enough for the next WC at 36 years of age.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Your perception doesn't align with facts and figures, though.

Both Chahal and Kuldeep has played all their career under Kohli. In fact, Chahal debuted 2-3 series earlier than Kuldeep did.

So pray tell me how, if Kohli was favouring one spinner over the other, that Kuldeep has actually played 2 more ODIs than Chahal?

And while we're at it also please explain why Kuldeep has already played 6 tests while Chahal hasn't even been picked in a test squad yet.

Are you a journalist, by any chance? Because the way you're adding masala to a simple thing sure gives that impression.

Let's take a look at the series both played (starts from SL in 2017).

India in SL 2017

Chahal plays 4. Kuldeep plays 2 (Chahal averages 37 in this series...Kuldeep 23....guess who is dropped )

Australia in India 2017

Chahal plays 4. Kuldeep plays 4.

New Zealand In India

Chahal plays 3. Kuldeep plays 1 (both went wicketless in first game but Kuldeep gave a few more runs so dropped for reminder of the series for Axar ) )

SL in India in 2017

Chahal plays 3. Kuldeep plays 2 (Kuldeep averages 14 in this series while Chahal averages 17 )

India in SA 2017

Chahal plays 6. Kuldeep plays 6 (Chahal averages 9. Kuldeep averages 13)

India in England 2018

Chahal played 3. Kuldeep played 3 (Chahal averages 67 while Kuldeep averages 16)

Asia Cup 2018

Chahal played 5. Kuldeep played 6 (first time Kuldeep plays more after TM finally decided to drop Chahal.....he averaged 23 while Chahal averaged 32)

West Indies in India 2018

Chahal played 2. Kuldeep played 4 (Chahal averaged 32 while Kuldeep averaged 19)

India in Australia 2018

Chahal played 1. Kuldeep played 2 (one of the rare series where Chahal didn't play more)

India in New Zealand 2018

Chahal played 5. Kuldeep played 4. (Chahal averaged 24 while Kuldeep averaged 15 yet the better performer was dropped )

Australia In India 2019

Chahal played 1. Kuldeep played 5 (Chahal got destroyed for 80 runs so was dropped).

Then WC.

----

As for Kohli and Chahal, sample this.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/spo...n-ashwin-board-flight-to-england-1839490.html

Kohli wanted Chahal (who has way less wickets per game than Kuldeep with a slightly higher average in first class) for the test series but the idea was shot down by MSK Prasad.

) ) )

BOOOOOYA.

SIF knows his stuff man.

Just that he doesn't have enough time to post detailed posts in PP.

Maybe next time onwards, ask me nicely.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

India in SA 2017

Chahal plays 6. Kuldeep plays 6 (Chahal averages 9. Kuldeep averages 13)

*Chahal averages 16

 

[ak619]

Let's take a look at the series both played (starts from SL in 2017).

India in SL 2017

Chahal plays 4. Kuldeep plays 2 (Chahal averages 37 in this series...Kuldeep 23....guess who is dropped )

Australia in India 2017

Chahal plays 4. Kuldeep plays 4.

New Zealand In India

Chahal plays 3. Kuldeep plays 1 (both went wicketless in first game but Kuldeep gave a few more runs so dropped for reminder of the series for Axar ) )

SL in India in 2017

Chahal plays 3. Kuldeep plays 2 (Kuldeep averages 14 in this series while Chahal averages 17 )

India in SA 2017

Chahal plays 6. Kuldeep plays 6 (Chahal averages 9. Kuldeep averages 13)

India in England 2018

Chahal played 3. Kuldeep played 3 (Chahal averages 67 while Kuldeep averages 16)

Asia Cup 2018

Chahal played 5. Kuldeep played 6 (first time Kuldeep plays more after TM finally decided to drop Chahal.....he averaged 23 while Chahal averaged 32)

West Indies in India 2018

Chahal played 2. Kuldeep played 4 (Chahal averaged 32 while Kuldeep averaged 19)

India in Australia 2018

Chahal played 1. Kuldeep played 2 (one of the rare series where Chahal didn't play more)

India in New Zealand 2018

Chahal played 5. Kuldeep played 4. (Chahal averaged 24 while Kuldeep averaged 15 yet the better performer was dropped )

Australia In India 2019

Chahal played 1. Kuldeep played 5 (Chahal got destroyed for 80 runs so was dropped).

Then WC.

----

As for Kohli and Chahal, sample this.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/spo...n-ashwin-board-flight-to-england-1839490.html

Kohli wanted Chahal (who has way less wickets per game than Kuldeep with a slightly higher average in first class) for the test series but the idea was shot down by MSK Prasad.

) ) )

BOOOOOYA.

SIF knows his stuff man.

Just that he doesn't have enough time to post detailed posts in PP.

Maybe next time onwards, ask me nicely.

I thought nobody can say no to Kohli. How come MSK Prasad managed to rule over Kohli when it comes to Kohli's favourite?

Your logic has to be consistent. Otherwise it just comes across as designed to prove your agenda and nothing else.

And you gave a long and useless post about the breakdown of the series but still haven't explained how Chahal has actually played less ODIs than Kuldeep despite debuting 2 series before Kuldeep did. Please give me an answer to this question instead of posting another useless roundabout response with series breakdown which proves literally nothing except for the fact that Kuldeep and Chahal actually played the same number of games in most of the series you have stated.


As far as this WC is concerned, if you cannot see why Chahal was picked over Kuldeep in the last 3 matches (after managing to pick literally half the wickets Chahal did), then you are the fan boy here, not Kohli or Shastri. Sorry calling it like I see it.

Booya and all that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I thought nobody can say no to Kohli. How come MSK Prasad managed to rule over Kohli when it comes to Kohli's favourite?

Your logic has to be consistent. Otherwise it just comes across as designed to prove your agenda and nothing else.

And you gave a long and useless post about the breakdown of the series but still haven't explained how Chahal has actually played less ODIs than Kuldeep despite debuting 2 series before Kuldeep did. Please give me an answer to this question instead of posting another useless roundabout response with series breakdown which proves literally nothing except for the fact that Kuldeep and Chahal actually played the same number of games in most of the series you have stated.


As far as this WC is concerned, if you cannot see why Chahal was picked over Kuldeep in the last 3 matches (after managing to pick literally half the wickets Chahal did), then you are the fan boy here, not Kohli or Shastri. Sorry calling it like I see it.

Booya and all that.

Oh dear.

That's all you got?

I gave you a proper breakdown of how BOTH were treated when they played together.

You ignored it.

I then showed you proof of Kohli wanting Chahal in test series in SA. But was shot down by MSK (which by the way was too easy cos Chahal's first class stats are pure rubbish 80 odd wickets from 30 odd games).

You ignored it again.

Now you want me to answer why Kuldeep played more.

You really want to be spoonfed, aren't you?

You could find this out by digging around yourself but anyways I will oblige you.

----

In India, upcoming players are tried against Zimbabwe after which they graduate to the main team. Not always but when the Zimbabwe tour is scheduled.

Chahal was upcoming and he played in that series.

Kuldeep, on the other hand, was marked as one for the future as early as 2014 or 2015 (don't remember the dates). He was fast tracked while Chahal went through the normal route.

Kuldeep also played in the warm ups against England in 2017 and took 5fer in a sole game (where both Ashwin and Jaddu struggled). This solidified his position as the next in line.

Once we lost CT, there was widespread call for Kuldeep.

So he played a 5 match series against WI right after CT. He bowled with Ashwin and jadeja (this happened because selectors had picked the squad before or just after the WC). Post this series, both Ash and jaddu were dropped (regardless of their performance in here).

So that's 5 games more for Kuldeep.

If you tally up the Zimbabwe series where Kuldeep wasn't present (nor was Kohli captaining), it comes down to 2 more games for Kuldeep.

Then till Asia Cup, Chahal was getting prefered over Kuldeep inspite of performing not as well as him. So he got 5 extra games. You can check the list above.

So overall total comes down to 3 extra games for Chahal.

Post Asia Cup, Chahal's inferior performance to Kuldeep couldn't be ignored if team wanted just 1 wristy...So Chahal missed out.

Here Kuldeep got like 7 extra games.

(Correction reg the past post: The WI series, Chahal played 3 games. Not 2.)

So overall total is 4 extra games for Kuldeep.

However during the NZ series before the WC...somehow Kuldeep missed out a game even tho he outperformed Chahal.

So overall total is 3 extra games for Kuldeep.

In WC, Kuldeep played 1 lesser game compared to Chahal, so overall total comes down to 2 extra games for Kuldeep.

Hence Kuldeep 51 games. Chahal 49 games.

Also I never defended Kuldeep post IPL. On the contrary I mentioned that Kuldeep is out of form and Chahal is performing better in IPL and WC, so he needs to be played ahead of him in WC. Right as a response to someone who wanted Chahal dropped.

The criticism about team management is when they dropped Kuldeep when he was unquestionably better.

Summary:

Till The IPL started, Kuldeep WAS the better player yet was dropped for no reason. Post IPL, Chahal was bowling better. Kuldeep played more games because of one series against WI (post CT) and then 4 extra games against Aus where Chahal was poor the first game.

Gotcha bro?

Ok then. Moving on...

 

[ak619]

Oh dear.

That's all you got?

I gave you a proper breakdown of how BOTH were treated when they played together.

You ignored it.

I then showed you proof of Kohli wanting Chahal in test series in SA. But was shot down by MSK (which by the way was too easy cos Chahal's first class stats are pure rubbish 80 odd wickets from 30 odd games).

You ignored it again.

Now you want me to answer why Kuldeep played more.

You really want to be spoonfed, aren't you?

You could find this out by digging around yourself but anyways I will oblige you.

----

In India, upcoming players are tried against Zimbabwe after which they graduate to the main team. Not always but when the Zimbabwe tour is scheduled.

Chahal was upcoming and he played in that series.

Kuldeep, on the other hand, was marked as one for the future as early as 2014 or 2015 (don't remember the dates). He was fast tracked while Chahal went through the normal route.

Kuldeep also played in the warm ups against England in 2017 and took 5fer in a sole game (where both Ashwin and Jaddu struggled). This solidified his position as the next in line.

Once we lost CT, there was widespread call for Kuldeep.

So he played a 5 match series against WI right after CT. He bowled with Ashwin and jadeja (this happened because selectors had picked the squad before or just after the WC). Post this series, both Ash and jaddu were dropped (regardless of their performance in here).

So that's 5 games more for Kuldeep.

If you tally up the Zimbabwe series where Kuldeep wasn't present (nor was Kohli captaining), it comes down to 2 more games for Kuldeep.

Then till Asia Cup, Chahal was getting prefered over Kuldeep inspite of performing not as well as him. So he got 5 extra games. You can check the list above.

So overall total comes down to 3 extra games for Chahal.

Post Asia Cup, Chahal's inferior performance to Kuldeep couldn't be ignored if team wanted just 1 wristy...So Chahal missed out.

Here Kuldeep got like 7 extra games.

(Correction reg the past post: The WI series, Chahal played 3 games. Not 2.)

So overall total is 4 extra games for Kuldeep.

However during the NZ series before the WC...somehow Kuldeep missed out a game even tho he outperformed Chahal.

So overall total is 3 extra games for Kuldeep.

In WC, Kuldeep played 1 lesser game compared to Chahal, so overall total comes down to 2 extra games for Kuldeep.

Hence Kuldeep 51 games. Chahal 49 games.

Also I never defended Kuldeep post IPL. On the contrary I mentioned that Kuldeep is out of form and Chahal is performing better in IPL and WC, so he needs to be played ahead of him in WC. Right as a response to someone who wanted Chahal dropped.

The criticism about team management is when they dropped Kuldeep when he was unquestionably better.

Summary:

Till The IPL started, Kuldeep WAS the better player yet was dropped for no reason. Post IPL, Chahal was bowling better. Kuldeep played more games because of one series against WI (post CT) and then 4 extra games against Aus where Chahal was poor the first game.

Gotcha bro?

Ok then. Moving on...

Again, a few hundred lines of nothing.

You still haven't managed to explain how Kuldeep has played more games if Chahal has been favoured over him.

And I think we can all agree that Kohli tells MSK who will be in the team and not the other way round (you have said as much yourself in this very thread) so how come now you are crediting Chahal's absense in the test team to MSK? If Kohli really wanted Chahal over Kuldeep in the test team, he would have been there. Period. No MSKs could have done jack about it.

If Chahal's stats stopped him from from getting a test cap then how come MSK and the TM couldn't do the same thing in ODIs where Kuldeep again has better stats than Chahal?

See that's the point. Your theory doesn't tie up at all.

Fact of the matter is that both are very good spinners and they have been rotated around. It's also a known fact that the TM has tried to ensure that Kuldeep isn't overexposed to oppositions in JAMODIS. I'm sure they didn't expect Kuldeep's form to drop this drastically just before the WC.

So while your conspiracy theories are fun to read, they aren't convincing at all. When it's a choice between two good players it's natural to have an "unnis-bees" difference. That proves nothing about any preferencial treatment.

And while we're at it, it's not like I'm denying that this team hasn't given preferencial treatment to some players. KL Rahul has certainly been given a longer rope than many others. But that's simply not the case in Kulcha's case.

Don't know what fascination you have with conspiracies but you looking in the wrong place. Try Area 51, I hear it's big news in the meme world currently.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Not surprised. Kohli looked very unhappy at Pandya in the final at the way in which he got out.

I also wasnt sure whose decision it was to bat Dhoni at 7.

According to some sensible fans it was Dhoni who was controlling the inning and decided to hide behind young superstars Pant and Pandya.

 

[xbronze]

Coming to the topic, these factions are always there in any work environment where more than one guy is employed. In healthy situations these encourage players to outperform each other. Once upon a time in early 2000s, I changed 6 jobs in two years and every single work env had more than one groups. But this rift thing, I am still not sold on this news. Both Rohit and Kohli know that the other is very important for success of the team. Kohli needs Rohit and Rohit will need Kohli once he becomes captain of either T20 or ODI team. Also this doesn't always affect a team. Historical articles about late 70s/early 80s ATG WI team shows a bunch of unsatisfied egos and some of them even ditched the team to tour SA while some others sold themselves to Kerry Packer. Also Waugh's preference for underperforming players when better options were available e.g Healy/Gilchrist in tests, Symonds/Watson and his own brother is well known. I remember when they were on the verge of dropping Symonds from tests, Steve bowled him a lot of overs in an almost decided test. Symonds picked up 2/3 wickets and stayed gaining his form later.
If one Indian player on the condition of anonymity has spoken to one of the reporters, I have a feeling it may be Rayudu bcoz -
1. He has nothing to lose after retiring from all cricket.
2. If he comes out in the open with these statements, he will most likely face more than one libel case.
3. Any of the current player coming out will put his future in jeopardy.
4. The factions are there but there is no backstabbing so far. Kohli always speaks highly of MS, Rohit and vice versa. No Gambhir vs Dhoni like statements.
5. Older guys like Dhoni, Karthik and Jadhav know that they are living on a thin edge due to mediocre performances (When was the last time one of them won a match?). One step across the line and they are toast.
6. Most younger guys are part of the team for at most two-three years. Most of them only play LOIs.
7. Guys who don't fit into either of the above categories -Shami already has his plate full with his wife after him. Would acknowledge any support. Jadeja has played well in whatever limited opportunities he got and can look forward to be a permanent fixture of ODI team henceforward.
8. There can be other culprits like washed out/ retired cricketers, but they cant speak with such confidence in detail about a team they are no longer part of. In their case, it would have been a only one or two sentences with lots of media speculation thrown in. This rules out unhappy guys like Gambhir and Yusuf Pathan.

If it is indeed Rayudu, the report is not to be taken seriously because of his "sour grapes" situation. It'll be a serious matter only if another player comes out (even another unnamed source) and affirms it.

Next time please use paragraphs and spaces/lines between bullet points. Just looking at your post/note gave me a headache.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Again, a few hundred lines of nothing.

You still haven't managed to explain how Kuldeep has played more games if Chahal has been favoured over him.

And I think we can all agree that Kohli tells MSK who will be in the team and not the other way round (you have said as much yourself in this very thread) so how come now you are crediting Chahal's absense in the test team to MSK? If Kohli really wanted Chahal over Kuldeep in the test team, he would have been there. Period. No MSKs could have done jack about it.

If Chahal's stats stopped him from from getting a test cap then how come MSK and the TM couldn't do the same thing in ODIs where Kuldeep again has better stats than Chahal?

See that's the point. Your theory doesn't tie up at all.

Fact of the matter is that both are very good spinners and they have been rotated around. It's also a known fact that the TM has tried to ensure that Kuldeep isn't overexposed to oppositions in JAMODIS. I'm sure they didn't expect Kuldeep's form to drop this drastically just before the WC.

So while your conspiracy theories are fun to read, they aren't convincing at all. When it's a choice between two good players it's natural to have an "unnis-bees" difference. That proves nothing about any preferencial treatment.

And while we're at it, it's not like I'm denying that this team hasn't given preferencial treatment to some players. KL Rahul has certainly been given a longer rope than many others. But that's simply not the case in Kulcha's case.

Don't know what fascination you have with conspiracies but you looking in the wrong place. Try Area 51, I hear it's big news in the meme world currently.

Must say I am disappointed with you.

I thought you are one of those posters who may be a Dhoni fan but is someone whom one can have a logical debate with.

You still haven't managed to explain how Kuldeep has played more games if Chahal has been favoured over him.

Few hundred lines of nothing?

I took time out to explain to you in 2 detailed posts which if you bothered to read, explains it perfectly.

If you still don't get it, all the best man.

Every single point of yours was countered in a clinical fashion. But you can choose to believe otherwise and live in a lala-land.

A bit disappointed.

Just not worthy enough for me to have a serious debate with.

Good day to you sir.

 

[ak619]

Must say I am disappointed with you.

I thought you are one of those posters who may be a Dhoni fan but is someone whom one can have a logical debate with.



Few hundred lines of nothing?

I took time out to explain to you in 2 detailed posts which if you bothered to read, explains it perfectly.

If you still don't get it, all the best man.

Every single point of yours was countered in a clinical fashion. But you can choose to believe otherwise and live in a lala-land.

A bit disappointed.

Just not worthy enough for me to have a serious debate with.

Good day to you sir.

You countered nothing, man. But if you still want to pat yourself on the back for it, go ahead.

For your convenience I'll repeat this - if the difference in number of matches played was 8 or 10, I would have still considered your theory.

But when both spinners have played pretty much the same number of matches - all under the same captain, then your theory holds no value.

And you still haven't responded to the MSK and test match angle. One article from some random news outlet proves nothing when you and I very well know how reliable Indian media is.

I'll stick to what I said before. You're seeing a conspiracy here because you want to see one. Not because it exists.

You should try not to be so cynical about everything with this team management. Lord knows they are not very good at their jobs but it doesn't mean that they are running some babu business here with no cheques and balances and are blatantly playing favorites. Get back into reality, man. It's not the best here but it's still better than the dystopia you've created in your head.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You countered nothing, man. But if you still want to pat yourself on the back for it, go ahead.

For your convenience I'll repeat this - if the difference in number of matches played was 8 or 10, I would have still considered your theory.

But when both spinners have played pretty much the same number of matches - all under the same captain, then your theory holds no value.

And you still haven't responded to the MSK and test match angle. One article from some random news outlet proves nothing when you and I very well know how reliable Indian media is.

I'll stick to what I said before. You're seeing a conspiracy here because you want to see one. Not because it exists.

You should try not to be so cynical about everything with this team management. Lord knows they are not very good at their jobs but it doesn't mean that they are running some babu business here with no cheques and balances and are blatantly playing favorites. Get back into reality, man. It's not the best here but it's still better than the dystopia you've created in your head.

For your convenience I'll repeat this - if the difference in number of matches played was 8 or 10, I would have still considered your theory.

I would have ignored your post but for this statement.

I answered this particular point by explaining the HOW part. That's the most important part.

It's not a case of one game Chahal sits out and one game Kuldeep sits out which the final tally MAY point towards.

The match number difference is low that's cos post Asia Cup, FINALLY, Kuldeep wasn't dropped for no reason and Chahal was dropped.

Post Asia Cup, Kuldeep played like 6 extra games than Chahal. Only difference was that in this case, he deserved it as he outperformed Chahal during that time. When he was dropped, he was STILL outperforming Chahal. Check the breakdown.

Whatever happened to management preventing him from being overexposed to oppositions?

Yet another mini point goes up in flames.

It's the HOW that matters. Final tally can change anytime.

I will say what I believe in. And I don't wanna continue this discussion.

I lose interest fast these days if a discussion is going nowhere. Just don't have the patience of my younger self.

You can believe what you want. You are entitled to it.