[Reports] Shahid Afridi to address people in Indian Kashmir via telephone on Friday

[IMMY69]

So my country will have to have rules that are according to the wishes of foreigners? LoL

I will give this one more crack.

I have many Indian friends, both Hindus and Muslims..Indian friends who still live in India.
We have debates. We talk about Indian and Pakistani politics and about Kashmir.
We have our differences but one thing is unanimous and that is we both feel the plight of the Kashmiris.

With you, there is nothing to discuss. Your nationalism supersedes everything and imo blinds you somewhat. I hope you’re very much in the minority or else I really do fear for Pakistan and India.
Before you start talking about india’s Military might, a war will cause death on both sides...

I see very little humanity in your posts.

 

[UN talkz]

Friday prayers at Jamia Masjid after 6 weeks
The government had been imposing restrictions on Fridays after security wing DSP Mohammed Ayub Pandith (57) was beaten to death in Nowhatta on the night of June 22.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/ne...ers-at-jamia-masjid-after-6-weeks/447147.html

Just a small mistake from my side. Why you're getting upset ?

Good post; now please check for how many weeks ppl were barred from praying in Jamia Masjid in 2016; a year before Dsp Ayub was killed.
It is easy; just type it in google

 

[cricketjoshila]

I will give this one more crack.

I have many Indian friends, both Hindus and Muslims..Indian friends who still live in India.
We have debates. We talk about Indian and Pakistani politics and about Kashmir.
We have our differences but one thing is unanimous and that is we both feel the plight of the Kashmiris.

With you, there is nothing to discuss. Your nationalism supersedes everything and imo blinds you somewhat. I hope you’re very much in the minority or else I really do fear for Pakistan and India.
Before you start talking about india’s Military might, a war will cause death on both sides...

I see very little humanity in your posts.

There is a difference between a debate and a accusation. Mostly i see accusations and hypocrisy.

Let me give an example, On another thread posters openly using words like Hindu thugs Hindu extremists hindu this that. Same posters will cry foul and claim islamophobia and say terrorism has no religion when ISIS does another attack. If terrorism has no religion how does crime have one?

Secondly, everyone has a opinion, i may or may not agree with Trump being elected as US President. But i have no right to call Americans bigoted or racists or anything else because they elected a person who they think is good for them. I dont have the right to tell them how they run their country. I dont like it i dont go there. Why do you think its such a big issue regarding cambridge analytica and russians influencing the election. No sovereign nation likes any foreigner to meddle in its affairs. On a smaller scale you can take it as your house, will you like your neighbour to poke his nose into your matters when they dont affect him.

Similarly you may not like Modi. Its fine. But Indians elected him their leader as they think he is good for them. Thats their right. Modi doesnot affect you. Electing him doesnot make anyone extremist etc etc. Millions of Indians dont agree with your opinion and hence he is their leader not yours.

Muslims in India live with Hindus and other religious communities that doesnot make anyone there subservient to anyone.

When so many communities live together they have fights.That doesnot translate into muslims being second rate. Your ancestors didnt think they can live with Hindus thats fine you have Pakistan. Those who live in India will have their own way of living and that may not conform to your views. That doesnot make it wrong.

Problem is that posters here want to ram their views on india down the throat of Indians. Ofcourse as you see most Indians dont agree. So then starts the mudslinging.

Just like Pakistan is based on being a Muslim, India is based on being an Indian. We have different ways different laws different ideologies and principles. One doesnt need to be the same as other and neither is wrong.

Understand this and you will understand where i come from.

 

[IMMY69]

There is a difference between a debate and a accusation. Mostly i see accusations and hypocrisy.

Let me give an example, On another thread posters openly using words like Hindu thugs Hindu extremists hindu this that. Same posters will cry foul and claim islamophobia and say terrorism has no religion when ISIS does another attack. If terrorism has no religion how does crime have one?

Secondly, everyone has a opinion, i may or may not agree with Trump being elected as US President. But i have no right to call Americans bigoted or racists or anything else because they elected a person who they think is good for them. I dont have the right to tell them how they run their country. I dont like it i dont go there. Why do you think its such a big issue regarding cambridge analytica and russians influencing the election. No sovereign nation likes any foreigner to meddle in its affairs. On a smaller scale you can take it as your house, will you like your neighbour to poke his nose into your matters when they dont affect him.

Similarly you may not like Modi. Its fine. But Indians elected him their leader as they think he is good for them. Thats their right. Modi doesnot affect you. Electing him doesnot make anyone extremist etc etc. Millions of Indians dont agree with your opinion and hence he is their leader not yours.

Muslims in India live with Hindus and other religious communities that doesnot make anyone there subservient to anyone.

When so many communities live together they have fights.That doesnot translate into muslims being second rate. Your ancestors didnt think they can live with Hindus thats fine you have Pakistan. Those who live in India will have their own way of living and that may not conform to your views. That doesnot make it wrong.

Problem is that posters here want to ram their views on india down the throat of Indians. Ofcourse as you see most Indians dont agree. So then starts the mudslinging.

Just like Pakistan is based on being a Muslim, India is based on being an Indian. We have different ways different laws different ideologies and principles. One doesnt need to be the same as other and neither is wrong.

Understand this and you will understand where i come from.

The only problem is that you're tarnishing everyone with the same brush.
Not everyone here rants about Modi or that Muslims are being marginalised in India.
Yet when someone like me wants to discuss Kashmir or Pakistan playing India in cricket etc you close down the debate by effectively saying 'mind your own business'.

If this is the mindset then I have to wonder why you bother to frequent PP in the first place?

 

[cricketjoshila]

The only problem is that you're tarnishing everyone with the same brush.
Not everyone here rants about Modi or that Muslims are being marginalised in India.
Yet when someone like me wants to discuss Kashmir or Pakistan playing India in cricket etc you close down the debate by effectively saying 'mind your own business'.

If this is the mindset then I have to wonder why you bother to frequent PP in the first place?

On Kashmir there is pakistani view and there is a Indian view and they are poles apart. There is no convergence. Point is here you have pakistani posters saying let Kashmiris decide. Good. Let Kashmiris talk to Indians then, i dont see a role of pakistan in those talks if lets kashmiris decide is the view. There are so many other aspects to this.

Indo-Pak cricket, living in India i can tell you that hardly anyone i meet wants indo pak series at this time many of them are actively involved in cricket. Your views may be different thats fine but i have the right to follow mine.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is a difference between a debate and a accusation. Mostly i see accusations and hypocrisy.

Let me give an example, On another thread posters openly using words like Hindu thugs Hindu extremists hindu this that. Same posters will cry foul and claim islamophobia and say terrorism has no religion when ISIS does another attack. If terrorism has no religion how does crime have one?

Secondly, everyone has a opinion, i may or may not agree with Trump being elected as US President. But i have no right to call Americans bigoted or racists or anything else because they elected a person who they think is good for them. I dont have the right to tell them how they run their country. I dont like it i dont go there. Why do you think its such a big issue regarding cambridge analytica and russians influencing the election. No sovereign nation likes any foreigner to meddle in its affairs. On a smaller scale you can take it as your house, will you like your neighbour to poke his nose into your matters when they dont affect him.

Similarly you may not like Modi. Its fine. But Indians elected him their leader as they think he is good for them. Thats their right. Modi doesnot affect you. Electing him doesnot make anyone extremist etc etc. Millions of Indians dont agree with your opinion and hence he is their leader not yours.

Muslims in India live with Hindus and other religious communities that doesnot make anyone there subservient to anyone.

When so many communities live together they have fights.That doesnot translate into muslims being second rate. Your ancestors didnt think they can live with Hindus thats fine you have Pakistan. Those who live in India will have their own way of living and that may not conform to your views. That doesnot make it wrong.

Problem is that posters here want to ram their views on india down the throat of Indians. Ofcourse as you see most Indians dont agree. So then starts the mudslinging.

Just like Pakistan is based on being a Muslim, India is based on being an Indian. We have different ways different laws different ideologies and principles. One doesnt need to be the same as other and neither is wrong.

Understand this and you will understand where i come from.

I can understand exactly where you are coming from when you make sly little comments like that one. Why is Pakistan based on being a Muslim any more than India is based on being a Hindu ( rather than Indian)?

 

[R3verse Swing]

I can understand exactly where you are coming from when you make sly little comments like that one. Why is Pakistan based on being a Muslim any more than India is based on being a Hindu ( rather than Indian)?

There is definitely revisionism going on here. Perhaps the basis of the partition is lost on them or removed from the Indian syllabus by the incumbent nationalist government.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is definitely revisionism going on here. Perhaps the basis of the partition is lost on them or removed from the Indian syllabus by the incumbent nationalist government.

I think it's just a lot of Indians don't like to acknowledge the Hindu supremacist doctrine of the party which is currently ruling India, even if they support it privately. You can usually read between the lines with a lot of the Indian posters here, although there are a few honourable exceptions.

 

[Badsha]

If only you were there from 2011 to unravel me.

I said Shias have been victims of secterian violence in Pakistan.

And i said that Shias in J and K dont support secession.

I like your posts usually and you speak sense but you are completely wrong about the shia situation here.

I don't know about Shias in Kashmir but what I can tell you is that Shias in Pakistan are not treated as "minorities" or discriminated against at all. In fact, I think Gillani (former PM), Zardari are shias? Shias can be found in top positions and even in school there was no discrimination at all.

And I say this as someone who admits that we do discriminate against Hindus and Christians but 99 percent of the time not against Shias

 

[R3verse Swing]

I think it's just a lot of Indians don't like to acknowledge the Hindu supremacist doctrine of the party which is currently ruling India, even if they support it privately. You can usually read between the lines with a lot of the Indian posters here, although there are a few honourable exceptions.

You have hit the nail on the head. Either they are ashamed of their incumbent government and ideology, or they secretly support it. In either case it contributes to a false image.

 

[www787]

There is a difference between a debate and a accusation. Mostly i see accusations and hypocrisy.

Let me give an example, On another thread posters openly using words like Hindu thugs Hindu extremists hindu this that. Same posters will cry foul and claim islamophobia and say terrorism has no religion when ISIS does another attack. If terrorism has no religion how does crime have one?

Secondly, everyone has a opinion, i may or may not agree with Trump being elected as US President. But i have no right to call Americans bigoted or racists or anything else because they elected a person who they think is good for them. I dont have the right to tell them how they run their country. I dont like it i dont go there. Why do you think its such a big issue regarding cambridge analytica and russians influencing the election. No sovereign nation likes any foreigner to meddle in its affairs. On a smaller scale you can take it as your house, will you like your neighbour to poke his nose into your matters when they dont affect him.

Similarly you may not like Modi. Its fine. But Indians elected him their leader as they think he is good for them. Thats their right. Modi doesnot affect you. Electing him doesnot make anyone extremist etc etc. Millions of Indians dont agree with your opinion and hence he is their leader not yours.

Muslims in India live with Hindus and other religious communities that doesnot make anyone there subservient to anyone.

When so many communities live together they have fights.That doesnot translate into muslims being second rate. Your ancestors didnt think they can live with Hindus thats fine you have Pakistan. Those who live in India will have their own way of living and that may not conform to your views. That doesnot make it wrong.

Problem is that posters here want to ram their views on india down the throat of Indians. Ofcourse as you see most Indians dont agree. So then starts the mudslinging.

Just like Pakistan is based on being a Muslim, India is based on being an Indian. We have different ways different laws different ideologies and principles. One doesnt need to be the same as other and neither is wrong.

Understand this and you will understand where i come from.

No! The problem is that you believe discussing is similar to ramming down ones view down your throat.

The whole world has highlighted the issue related to that 8 years girl. They aren’t ramming down their view down Indians throat. So that theory of you failed.

So you’re upset someone call a bigot and racist a racist and bigot?

You are so insecure that you would resort to the most stupid defense, the words that has been used to define extremists version of Hinduism is, radical, extremists Hindu. They call themselves Hindu, and their view are radical and extremists, if you want to give them other name then we can use that to define them.

You have never denied that such groups exist. So do they exist in India or don’t ? And if they do then what does the majority of Indian call them ?

ISIS in the world is referred as ISIS and they are openly called anti-Muslim radical extremists group who used Islam to justify their crimes and majority of the Muslims have denounce a d defeated them in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. What has India done to curb Hindu extremism? So far nothing and the current rulking party can’t do much because that will not help them get elected. Sure, most Hindu elected Modi aren’t radical Hindu extremists ( I don’t know what are they refer to in India) and elected him because of his view on economy, but I can bet my last $ that every radical extremist Hindu voted for Modi because his past history and believe they have a free pass to oppress and ridicule minority.

 

[90MPH]

Ehsan Jafri was the Muslim politician who was hacked to death by sword wielding mobs during the Gujarat riots which took place when Modi was head of the state. He was a Shia, so in answer to your question, no these mobs don't ask whether they ar Shia or Sunni when they mistreat them. Hopefully next time joshila bhai wants to talk about Shias in Pakistan, he will remember Ehsan Mani and wonder why someone who served India could have ended up with such a terrible fate at the hands of religious fanatics.

He’s shedding all fake crocodile tears for shias my friend. All fake.

If someone has genuine plight for minorties for Pakistan then I have no problem and respect their opinion for expressing it as long as their views are consistent at home as well.

Hypocrites can be seen a mile away when the problem gets shined on their country.

 

[Madplayer]

Shias want nothing to do with the Azaadi Gang or their "freedom fighters" neither do they want anything to do with Pakistan. They have understood where they stand and thats why they have silently distanced themselves. They know that if they openly reject the Azaadi gang, what happened to Pandits will be repeated.

So

Maybe you are confusing dalits of India with Shias here mate. Worry about them or one day they will take the land from under your feet.

Kashmiri Shias support the struggle by and large. Always have and always will. Your wishful thinking doesnt mean jack. Keep parrorting it, maybe you will actually believe it after a while.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I can understand exactly where you are coming from when you make sly little comments like that one. Why is Pakistan based on being a Muslim any more than India is based on being a Hindu ( rather than Indian)?

Because India is not a hindu republic but a secular one. Indian laws are not based on any religion and you do not need to be a hindu to hold a high office of PM or President in India

Muslims wanted a separate nation in 1947 and they got one. Hindus and the rest including a large number of muslims have their secular country.

 

[Madplayer]

Numbers matter but so do rights of the people. Muslims were a minority in British India in 1947 but they had they had the right to get a country as they wished.

Slowly you are coming out with your reality, numbers matter thats why Pandits were massacared.

I am talking about the democratic process of voting (in a plebiscite) and you are talking about something other unrelated stuff and some imaginary accusations. You are truly blinded by your fascist Indian nationalism to the point that you have lost ability to comprehend simple things. Get an appointment with a real doctor.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think it's just a lot of Indians don't like to acknowledge the Hindu supremacist doctrine of the party which is currently ruling India, even if they support it privately. You can usually read between the lines with a lot of the Indian posters here, although there are a few honourable exceptions.

The party doesnot get to change the basic nature of Indian constitution. Its secular and will remain secular.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No! The problem is that you believe discussing is similar to ramming down ones view down your throat.

The whole world has highlighted the issue related to that 8 years girl. They aren’t ramming down their view down Indians throat. So that theory of you failed.

So you’re upset someone call a bigot and racist a racist and bigot?

You are so insecure that you would resort to the most stupid defense, the words that has been used to define extremists version of Hinduism is, radical, extremists Hindu. They call themselves Hindu, and their view are radical and extremists, if you want to give them other name then we can use that to define them.

You have never denied that such groups exist. So do they exist in India or don’t ? And if they do then what does the majority of Indian call them ?

ISIS in the world is referred as ISIS and they are openly called anti-Muslim radical extremists group who used Islam to justify their crimes and majority of the Muslims have denounce a d defeated them in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. What has India done to curb Hindu extremism? So far nothing and the current rulking party can’t do much because that will not help them get elected. Sure, most Hindu elected Modi aren’t radical Hindu extremists ( I don’t know what are they refer to in India) and elected him because of his view on economy, but I can bet my last $ that every radical extremist Hindu voted for Modi because his past history and believe they have a free pass to oppress and ridicule minority.

1 You just called someone a racist or bigot because thats your view of him. Millions others dont think so.This is called ramming the opinion down someones throat.

2.Havent seen anyone on PP defending the murderers of Asifa.

3.So Muslim terrorist. Muslim extremist. Muslim radical are fine? So you believe terrorism has a religion?

4.If Hindus wanted to oppress minorities in India minority population would decrease and not increase. The rights of the minorities are guaranteed by the constitution and protected by the combi ed will of the people. No Modi or anyone can take it away.

5. What has America done to stop the racist attacks on blacks or Gun violence? Does it mean christian or white extremism or white radicalism is on the rise?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Maybe you are confusing dalits of India with Shias here mate. Worry about them or one day they will take the land from under your feet.

Kashmiri Shias support the struggle by and large. Always have and always will. Your wishful thinking doesnt mean jack. Keep parrorting it, maybe you will actually believe it after a while.

Resorting to whataboutery is not going to change the fact that Azaadi gangs have no support among non muslims and shias.

 

[JaDed]

I think it's just a lot of Indians don't like to acknowledge the Hindu supremacist doctrine of the party which is currently ruling India, even if they support it privately. You can usually read between the lines with a lot of the Indian posters here, although there are a few honourable exceptions.

It's a party with religious bias everyone probably acknowledges that,the problem here is you are painting entire India with the same brush, to give you an example the entire South of India's 5 populous states have no BJP ,even in terms of being opposition it's only there in Karnataka ,it's not even second party.

See the regular protests against BJP at center in Tamil Nadu and you would notice the hatred they have for Modi /BJP and mind you SOUTH Indian Hindus are actually much more religious.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am talking about the democratic process of voting (in a plebiscite) and you are talking about something other unrelated stuff and some imaginary accusations. You are truly blinded by your fascist Indian nationalism to the point that you have lost ability to comprehend simple things. Get an appointment with a real doctor.

Plebiscite is not a absolute process where majority rules. Minorities have their rights too. Else every plebiscite in subcontinent in 1947 would have seen partition plan being rejected.

Imaginary accusations, i mean the Pandits were not massacared. No numbers game was played.

 

[www787]

1 You just called someone a racist or bigot because thats your view of him. Millions others dont think so.This is called ramming the opinion down someones throat.

2.Havent seen anyone on PP defending the murderers of Asifa.

3.So Muslim terrorist. Muslim extremist. Muslim radical are fine? So you believe terrorism has a religion?

4.If Hindus wanted to oppress minorities in India minority population would decrease and not increase. The rights of the minorities are guaranteed by the constitution and protected by the combi ed will of the people. No Modi or anyone can take it away.

5. What has America done to stop the racist attacks on blacks or Gun violence? Does it mean christian or white extremism or white radicalism is on the rise?

If someone uses religion, race to discriminate and violence than that is defined as bigot and racist.

I never said anyone on PP, and have never said you have defended Asifa murderers , never expect that from you or anyone here on PP. It is the mass population, which are most un-educated, low income driven population who believe in distorted point of view of their leaders to cause violence against minority, and when I say leader, I do not mean Modi.

Oppression has nothing to with population, you are clutching the straws here trying for the sake of an argument. It is invalid and irrelevant.

Yes, White radicalism and white extremism is on the rise in US, there are many reputable sources have reported that, and it has been going on ever since Trump has become President.

Gun violence is not the same, majority of the gun violence and gun related homicide in America are black on black.

Now, please answer, does religiously motivated ( Hindu) group exist in India that teaches to hate a particular group?

Does radical extremist hindu version exist in India? and if they do what are they called by the rest of the India and what should the rest of the world call them to acknowledge the rise of extremism in India?

Please do not say it doesn't because that would be just laughable.

And please do not equate my question looking down on Hindu religion, I am sure majority of Hindu are against such group and would want them to be eliminated from India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because India is not a hindu republic but a secular one. Indian laws are not based on any religion and you do not need to be a hindu to hold a high office of PM or President in India

Muslims wanted a separate nation in 1947 and they got one. Hindus and the rest including a large number of muslims have their secular country.

Here is a perfect example of double speak. Laws mean jack if the courts implement them with the bias of the majority, just ask some of the home based anti-Pakistan elements who ( quite rightly) regularly post here complaining regularly about the mis-application of blasphemy law. Indians voted in a Hindu supremacist party to govern them, and the courts and judges will also heavily reflect bias from that majority. This is why you will see your Hindutva goons protesting and rioting with impunity in India itself, they know they have the people on their side.

But yeah, India is secular.

 

[Madplayer]

Resorting to whataboutery is not going to change the fact that Azaadi gangs have no support among non muslims and shias.

I am not resorting to whataboutery. Dalits will take what is rightfully their. A separate nation for them. They want and they will have it. You cant opress them forever. Even the north east loathes Indian occupation on them. You can stay in delusion that North east people like being called "Indian" lmao. You know it deep down inside what the 7 sisters think about India and its army.

Secondly this delusion that Kashmiri Shias want to be with India is just that, a delusion. This communal attempt by Hindu nationalists like yourself to divide muslims on basis of sects is bound to fail in Kashmir. Kashmiri Shias despise the Indian occupation as anyone else. Shias also follow orders of the respected Ayatollah so there is that as well. Like i said, this attempt of nationalist communal mafia to malign the image of Shias is bound to fail.

 

[Madplayer]

Plebiscite is not a absolute process where majority rules. Minorities have their rights too. Else every plebiscite in subcontinent in 1947 would have seen partition plan being rejected.

Imaginary accusations, i mean the Pandits were not massacared. No numbers game was played.

I didnt vote for BJP, why did they come into power? Why werent my rights protected? Throw modi out of office then and protect my rights.

You are embarrassing yourself now in front of others. Twisting and turning the definitions of the democratic process of voting as per your convenience. Your reputation as a poster has nose dived on this forum since you came out of the closet and showed your true genocidal communal colours and support towards chanakya neeti. Absolutely disgraceful to say the least.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Here is a perfect example of double speak. Laws mean jack if the courts implement them with the bias of the majority, just ask some of the home based anti-Pakistan elements who ( quite rightly) regularly post here complaining regularly about the mis-application of blasphemy law. Indians voted in a Hindu supremacist party to govern them, and the courts and judges will also heavily reflect bias from that majority. This is why you will see your Hindutva goons protesting and rioting with impunity in India itself, they know they have the people on their side.

But yeah, India is secular.

Judiciary is separate and not chosen by the govt. The ruling party doesnot appoint judges.

Secularism lies in the constitution not who is elected. There is not one law that bjp has framed that doesnot conform to the secular constitution of India.

Just because you think there will be bias doesnot mean there will be a bias. This isnt Bjps 1st term in office.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I didnt vote for BJP, why did they come into power? Why werent my rights protected? Throw modi out of office then and protect my rights.

You are embarrassing yourself now in front of others. Twisting and turning the definitions of the democratic process of voting as per your convenience. Your reputation as a poster has nose dived on this forum since you came out of the closet and showed your true genocidal communal colours and support towards chanakya neeti. Absolutely disgraceful to say the least.

1. Which rights of yours have been violated?

2.Stop worrying about my reputation on a online forum. Worry about the reputation of the so called Azaadi gang who are rightly labelled terrorists across the world. The world has realised that what the terrorists tried to pass off as a political problem is actually a religious one. The attempt to make J and K a islamic republic and dtive out the minorities. You want to play the numbers game, dont worry there are enough people to outnumber the terrorists.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am not resorting to whataboutery. Dalits will take what is rightfully their. A separate nation for them. They want and they will have it. You cant opress them forever. Even the north east loathes Indian occupation on them. You can stay in delusion that North east people like being called "Indian" lmao. You know it deep down inside what the 7 sisters think about India and its army.

Secondly this delusion that Kashmiri Shias want to be with India is just that, a delusion. This communal attempt by Hindu nationalists like yourself to divide muslims on basis of sects is bound to fail in Kashmir. Kashmiri Shias despise the Indian occupation as anyone else. Shias also follow orders of the respected Ayatollah so there is that as well. Like i said, this attempt of nationalist communal mafia to malign the image of Shias is bound to fail.

More of your bigotry and hatred is coming out.

You guys dont have enough people supporting you in Kashmir and you want to talk about Dalits and North east.

You can hate India as much as you want. You may wish to make J and K a islamic nation and drive out the minorities. None of that is going to happen. No country is going to take J and K away from India.

Respected Ayatollah is considered a friend of India as you can see by Iran-India relations.

 

[Pakpak]

What on Earth are you talking about????????

Listen lad.

I am Shia, my entire family and community is Shia.
The majority of my family still live in Pakistan.
PAKISTAN FIRST.

You are an Indian propagandist.. beginning wo wonder whether you’re on the payroll.

I think he might be drunk.

We have had Prime Ministers like Bhutto, Benazir, Zardari who have been Shia. The amount of misinformation Indians are fed about Pakistanis is staggering.

 

[JaDed]

I hope we are clear that people of both countries are pretty clueless about situation of each other's country.

Tbf I had a bagel in the morning and damn Western veg bfasts are so dry ,cream.cheese or not.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think he might be drunk.

We have had Prime Ministers like Bhutto, Benazir, Zardari who have been Shia. The amount of misinformation Indians are fed about Pakistanis is staggering.

Dont put your sins on me.

The last US President was a black, doesnt mean blacks dont suffer from racism in US.

 

[akki]

I am not resorting to whataboutery. Dalits will take what is rightfully their. A separate nation for them. They want and they will have it. You cant opress them forever. Even the north east loathes Indian occupation on them. You can stay in delusion that North east people like being called "Indian" lmao. You know it deep down inside what the 7 sisters think about India and its army.

Secondly this delusion that Kashmiri Shias want to be with India is just that, a delusion. This communal attempt by Hindu nationalists like yourself to divide muslims on basis of sects is bound to fail in Kashmir. Kashmiri Shias despise the Indian occupation as anyone else. Shias also follow orders of the respected Ayatollah so there is that as well. Like i said, this attempt of nationalist communal mafia to malign the image of Shias is bound to fail.

Dalits want seperate nation? Since when ?? Kuch bhi matlb...Only few islamic radicals wants to join pakistan kashmir wants. Nobody else in india wants to seperate. We go by majority only.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yes, the country which still idolises Bhuttos hates Shias

You are dense. Back to the ignore list! Also our founder was Shia as well, Mr Jinaah.

I am still stunned you're not banned. How you're not banned is beyond me.

Pertinent point.

How can anyone who claims to be a doctor exhibit so much hatred towards humanity? I read his interview in the archives which summed it up for me. He has more time on PP to defend India, Hindutva, and money – before his patients.

Thankfully I discovered the ignore feature yesterday! Cos people like him add no value but simply gloat, boast, and goad!

 

[rhony]

So when is Afridi going to address Shias, Ahmadis and other minorities?

The actual Pakistanis who are being oppressed by their fellow Pakistanis?

The apologists claim that Afridi's intentions are purely humanitarian and it has nothing to do with nationalism. If that is true, why are his fellow Pakistanis not higher in the pecking order than Indian occupied Kashmiris, who are not Pakistanis to begin with?

If his actions have to do with nationalism, why aren't the people of his nation higher in the pecking order than Indian occupied Kashmiris?

Can anyone answer these uncomfortable questions without resorting to ad hominem or using other deflection tactics, commonly referred to in Pakistan as aaye, bayen, shayen.

Afridi as usual trying his best for the low hanging fruit. It's easy to hit a six and get out than to build an innings. Same way, there is absolutely no loss and no tangible benefit either for him in IOK. He can't run an election, he can't and doesn't need to provide any material support. All he needs to do is tweet once in a while to keep himself in the news. If he speaks against the atrocities on other minorities in Pakistan, he will be questioned about his intentions to act on it. He isn't the type.

 

[rhony]

I can understand exactly where you are coming from when you make sly little comments like that one. Why is Pakistan based on being a Muslim any more than India is based on being a Hindu ( rather than Indian)?

Because Pakistan has proclaimed itself an Islamic Republic and India a secular republic. The ground realities could be different but at least that's what are your identities in the world based on your constitution

 

[Saeed]

He is not the most suitable person for this but if it forces the Indian media to go into another mental breakdown then it can’t be that bad.

 

[Pakistanian]

Because Pakistan has proclaimed itself an Islamic Republic and India a secular republic. The ground realities could be different but at least that's what are your identities in the world based on your constitution

If India is a secular republic then I don't get why they use Hindu mythology to justify Kashmir being part of India. In fact, Indians always bring up Hindu mythology when they speak of an undivided India

 

[rhony]

If India is a secular republic then I don't get why they use Hindu mythology to justify Kashmir being part of India. In fact, Indians always bring up Hindu mythology when they speak of an undivided India

Like I said, ground realities might be different. They can always claim secularity because of the provisions in the constitution and hence the laws of the land.

 

[Wonderwoman]

When the law of your land are so blatantly discriminatory , I don't think Pakistan should lecture anyone about oppression.

 

[emm-tee]

When the law of your land are so blatantly discriminatory , I don't think Pakistan should lecture anyone about oppression.

Pakistan is not lecturing though?

 

[cricketjoshila]

If India is a secular republic then I don't get why they use Hindu mythology to justify Kashmir being part of India. In fact, Indians always bring up Hindu mythology when they speak of an undivided India

The Maharaja of Kashmir signing the instrument of accession is Mythology?

 

[Pakistanian]

When the law of your land are so blatantly discriminatory , I don't think Pakistan should lecture anyone about oppression.

Cause Afridi speaks on behalf of the state of Pakistan I guess nobody can hold opinions then

 

[Madplayer]

Dalits want seperate nation? Since when ?? Kuch bhi matlb...Only few islamic radicals wants to join pakistan kashmir wants. Nobody else in india wants to seperate. We go by majority only.

Tell that to your communal genocide defender friend cricketjoshila who was twisting the definition of a voting process by saying majority vote doesnt matter because of the presence of a minority. But then of course, your patriotic eyes are blinded to what your fellow Indians say. You have disagreed with him and you dont even know.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Tell that to your communal genocide defender friend cricketjoshila who was twisting the definition of a voting process by saying majority vote doesnt matter because of the presence of a minority. But then of course, your patriotic eyes are blinded to what your fellow Indians say. You have disagreed with him and you dont even know.

Terrorist supporter who supports people who killed Hindus so that they can play the numbers game talking of genocide.

Yes minority rights matter, not to religious terrorists like you who believe 35% of population doesnot matter. But let me tell you something, the one who doesnot matter are the terrorists and their supporters. No matter what they do J and K will remain Indian territory.

 

[Madplayer]

Stop throwing toys out of the pram.

Nice try trying to bring Asifa here. Gujjars, anothet community that hates the Azaadi gang.

Killing international terrorists is not genocide.

The 13 year old killed the other day was an international terrorist. Countless kids killed and countless women raped by Indian army were international terrorists. Okay Joshilay, whatever helps you sleep better at night.
I made a very valid comparison to highlight the hypocricy of communal hindutva defenders like yourself. Obviously you wont like it but the truth and objectivity slaps you in your face.

Terrorist supporter who supports people who killed Hindus so that they can play the numbers game talking of genocide.

Lol what? You are getting braindead by the day and not making any sense because of your anger. Get some counselling. And Actually you are the one who is supporting those behind the plight of Kashmiri Pandits. Tragedy for you is that you will die in denial. However, thats not my problem.

Yes minority rights matter, not to religious terrorists like you who believe 35% of population doesnot matter. But let me tell you something, the one who doesnot matter are the terrorists and their supporters. No matter what they do J and K will remain Indian territory.

Are you calling me a religious terrorist? Lol
Which act of terrorism have I committed?

Minority rights matter for sure but you are denying the principle of a democratic process. This is embarrassing for you.

You are the one who is defending genocide and you dont like it because i am calling you out for it. You dont like looking into the mirror and seeing the communal monster that you have become. Whatever happened to that baby Cricket joshila who wasn't a communal politician? I hope he is still alive in you and someday he will overcome the communal coating that has coloured your heart.

 

[MenInG]

Just so we understand the dos and donts here.

Do NOT accuse any poster of crimes/being terrorist etc - applies to both sides of the divide.

 

[RainMan_]

Lalla is planning to join politics.

So clever

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Judiciary is separate and not chosen by the govt. The ruling party doesnot appoint judges.

Secularism lies in the constitution not who is elected. There is not one law that bjp has framed that doesnot conform to the secular constitution of India.

Just because you think there will be bias doesnot mean there will be a bias. This isnt Bjps 1st term in office.

Judiciary is separate from govt in Pakistan as well, but when Hafiz Saeeds are cleared by Pakistani courts, their decisions seem to stick in your craw for some reason. Please keep your double standards to yourself, you know fine well what I am saying, as does everyone else. As long as posters keep displaying these double standards and manipulating discussions, there can be very little opportunity for meaningful dialogue. Good day to you sir.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If India is a secular republic then I don't get why they use Hindu mythology to justify Kashmir being part of India. In fact, Indians always bring up Hindu mythology when they speak of an undivided India

Not to mention vote in a party which has openly espoused Hindu supremacist policy which it has already backed with beef bans in some states. This secular India is just clever double speak to hide behind, all these people who spout it know full well the reality.

 

[www787]

I am still waiting for the answer.

What are the radical extremists hindu groups are called in India? Because, apparently, when someone called them for what they are, few people get upset.

 

[English August]

Not to mention vote in a party which has openly espoused Hindu supremacist policy which it has already backed with beef bans in some states. This secular India is just clever double speak to hide behind, all these people who spout it know full well the reality.

Hope you'll appreciate that India's secular ethos do not need certification from ill-informed UK-based Pakistanis who have never visited India. I'll worry about India losing her secular standing when I see non-Hindus lining up outside the embassies / consulates in Delhi to escape to Muslim- and Christian countries.

From what I can tell, there is no religion-based / persecution-based migration out of India. People leave India for jobs in North America, Europe and Middle-East.

Well tried, but a completely failed attempt to troll.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Have you ever wondered why people come at you [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] with such viciousness? Because after almost every set of 7-8 posts you type something that just contradicts whatever you wrote in the first place. The funny thing is that banter & trolling aside your articulation of the said POV is always in a manner which reeks of Cluster~B and Gaslighthing (I'll let you do some Googling here ) - That said, let me just put forth a simple example of deflection tactics that you used very conveniently:

I stated, and be very attentive to what I write here, that "I am not too sure about Kashmir but as I hail from Karachi and I haven't seen any problems between Shias, Sunnis, or any other minorities" - This was in response to you when you quoted [MENTION=142702]UN talkz[/MENTION] who was calling you out on your blatant BJP Agenda! Conveniently you then proceeded to remind me of how Pakistan was not fit for Shais and how they were subjected to "sectarian violence for decades" (Snapshot below)



Ok fair enough, even if I agree that there is 'sectarian violence' against Shias which clearly I have no idea what you're talking about (maybe you're confusing opportunity bias with 'Secretarian violence' - I don't exactly know what they tell you in India) but then why do you immediately change goal posts when other posters call you out on your **?





Either stick with your narrative or don't spew nonsense left, right and center. I mean I know this doesn't call for a ban but your baseless rhetoric is doing nothing but bringing the overall quality of the Forum down. Please stop spreading lies as you have no idea what you're talking about neither do you have a clue on the demographics of the region that you're so whelmently defending against.

[MENTION=491]IMMY69[/MENTION] [MENTION=139075]Hadi Rizvi[/MENTION]

Game. Set. Match.

Quite a few posters here have joined my ignore list today.

 

[Mamoon]

Whataboutism 101

Yes, we have mastered the art of Whataboutism 451, let alone Whataboutism 101, when it comes to diverging attention from our internal problems.

 

[Mamoon]

What problem do you have if we get some support from Lala?

I have no issues with that. However, if you think that Afridi is showing 'love' for Kashmir and Kashmiris, you are mistaken. Please do not take our faux concern for your people and your land as love.

The truth is that Kashmir is nothing but a political tool for Pakistan. It is a treasure that we dream about - we are laboring under the delusion that one day, Kashmir can be free of the shackles of India and fall in our hands.

There is a reason why India does not want to give Kashmir freedom and why we want a slice of the pie - economic benefits.

We are no better or worse than India when it comes to oppression and violating human rights. What we did in East Pakistan, and the crimes that our military committed cannot be whitewashed. If we are ever put in a position where we have to do to you what we did to the Bengalis, we will do so without hesitation. That is the sad reality of the situation.

The only reason we 'care' about you is because it can benefit us in the long-term. It will give us economic benefits, and massive political leverage in the region.

However, I think you should be realistic. Kashmir will never be granted freedom, and it will remain part of India. Hence, I would prefer if we focus more on the plight of the Pakistanis living in Pakistan, rather than worry about what India is doing in an Indian occupied state.

 

[Mamoon]

You might have to retake Patriotism 101 because you failed that

There is a fine line between patriotism, nationalism and xenophobia. Unfortunately we blur the lines when it comes to Kashmir.

I am patriotic that is why I would prefer if we do something about the actual Pakistanis living in Pakistan. Poking your nose in other countries' business does not make you patriotic; it makes you a nationalist bordering on xenophobia. The fact is that Pakistan has zero claim over J&K.

 

[Mamoon]

That is how he operates. Tons of strawmen. I am now doubting each day if he is even Pakistani.

This is the 'aye bayen shayen' that I was referring too. He is Indian, he is a self-hater, he is constructing a straw man etc. etc.

It appears that no one is willing to answer a very simple question. Why are Indian occupied Kashmiris taken precedence over Pakistani Shias, Ahmadis, Hindus and other minorities. Well, I know the answer. It is far, far easier to point out the problems and flaws of others.

 

[Mamoon]

All those issues need to be tackled simultaneously, and Afridi isn't responsible for tackling all of them any more than the next person. You need to stop with these straw man arguments and stick to the topic. What a way to conduct a discussion. If you don't want to discuss Kashmir you can stay out of the thread, that's what I would do seeing as I don't want to discuss it either. But you can't come wading in and criticising a personality for not discussing something entirely different. That was the point I was making when I brought up topics like transgender truckers or sexism to show you how you like to operate.

No, no you cannot tackle all issues simultaneously. Afridi's so-called concern for Kashmir is pretty disingenuous. People like Afridi and other nationalists try to repackage their support for Kashmir as something that they are doing for humanity sake, but in truth, it is all about politics.

I will wade in and criticize hypocrites like Afridi whenever I feel like. With all due and undue respect, please do not tell me what to do. If you have any issues, take it up with the moderators.

 

[Adijazz1706]

No, no you cannot tackle all issues simultaneously. Afridi's so-called concern for Kashmir is pretty disingenuous. People like Afridi and other nationalists try to repackage their support for Kashmir as something that they are doing for humanity sake, but in truth, it is all about politics.

I will wade in and criticize hypocrites like Afridi whenever I feel like. With all due and undue respect, please do not tell me what to do. If you have any issues, take it up with the moderators.

You've gone back to the Pakistanis first thing for some reason, by that logic no one outside India should speak for Asifa Bano or Kashmir or only Syrians speak about Syria. Makes no sense at all, being a kuwen ka mendak is a pretty selfish attitude

 

[mankuTimma]

You've gone back to the Pakistanis first thing for some reason, by that logic no one outside India should speak for Asifa Bano or Kashmir or only Syrians speak about Syria. Makes no sense at all, being a kuwen ka mendak is a pretty selfish attitude

Anyone can speak about any subject,that’s Freedom of expression but selective speech is more dangerous than no speech at all.How many Pakistani related topics Afridi discuss regularly? Does he expressed any opinions about rapes/murders happen in Pakistan in the name of honour?.

 

[mankuTimma]

I am still waiting for the answer.

What are the radical extremists hindu groups are called in India? Because, apparently, when someone called them for what they are, few people get upset.

They are called same as radical extremist Muslims.Problem is radical extremist Hindus are still not reached radical level of certain radical extremist Muslims.Only after years of appeasement by certain secular parties extremism started by certain Hindus as well

 

[Syed1]

Anyone can speak about any subject,that’s Freedom of expression but selective speech is more dangerous than no speech at all.How many Pakistani related topics Afridi discuss regularly? Does he expressed any opinions about rapes/murders happen in Pakistan in the name of honour?.

It always helps when people educate themselves before they mouth off lest they look like dumb trolls


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My heartfelt condolences to Naqeebullah Mehsuds family. No words can do justice to their loss. This should be proceeded justly &fairly so that there no cases like this in future ! May Allah pak bless them with utmost forbearance to overcome this grief. Many prayers! <a href="https://t.co/sTre8bwHpf">pic.twitter.com/sTre8bwHpf</a></p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/959368714780135425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Whether 6yr old Zainab of Kasur or 8yr old Asifa of Jammu,these barbaric inhumane acts shud b condemned & those behind shud be punished to the max,let these cases be a lesson for the culprits whr no daughter will ever be subjected to this henious act <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NeverAgain?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NeverAgain</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JusticeforAsifa?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JusticeforAsifa</a></p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/984839561602895873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shocked, Disgusted and feeling sick to the core! What a shameful day for us, Zainab's killers must not only be hanged, they should be given such exemplary punishment that people should remember the lessson for ever. Pakistan rulers we're waiting for action!</p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/951123535283523590?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Syed1]

This is the 'aye bayen shayen' that I was referring too. He is Indian, he is a self-hater, he is constructing a straw man etc. etc.

It appears that no one is willing to answer a very simple question. Why are Indian occupied Kashmiris taken precedence over Pakistani Shias, Ahmadis, Hindus and other minorities. Well, I know the answer. It is far, far easier to point out the problems and flaws of others.

Then you ask why people call you Indian. An uninformed Indian would be kinda acceptable saying that Shias are discriminated against in Pakistan, but a guy who claims to lived the majority of his life in Pakistan and still say that seems very, very weird to put it mildly.


My house in Karachi had one of the biggest Imam Bargahs in the city just down the road and not one resident had any issues with it. During Moharram the major streets around the area were blocked for ma'atam jaloos, but everybody understood the purpose and no one had any problem with it. In all our classrooms there were several Shias and nobody was ever bothered about it (heck nobody even cared whether a student was Hindu/Christian). Shias comprise roughly 20% of the Pakistani population, had they been oppressed and discriminated against Pakistan wouldn't exist today. Heck Pakistan's creator was Shia, even the current President is Shia. Such discrimination.


I understand there is discrimination against minorities such as Hindus, Christians, Ahmedis etc by certain groups which specifically target them, but by and large the general population have no issues with them and adopt a "live and let life attitude".



You would have known all of what I said had you lived in Pakistan (which I don't doubt) but you parrot the Indian narrative to get more quotes and more replies.

 

[OoparCut]

I can understand exactly where you are coming from when you make sly little comments like that one. Why is Pakistan based on being a Muslim any more than India is based on being a Hindu ( rather than Indian)?

I think MJ Akbar answers quite accurately. Answer starts at 54 seconds.

More here if can handle it.

 

[mankuTimma]

It always helps when people educate themselves before they mouth off lest they look like dumb trolls


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My heartfelt condolences to Naqeebullah Mehsuds family. No words can do justice to their loss. This should be proceeded justly &fairly so that there no cases like this in future ! May Allah pak bless them with utmost forbearance to overcome this grief. Many prayers! <a href="https://t.co/sTre8bwHpf">pic.twitter.com/sTre8bwHpf</a></p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/959368714780135425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Whether 6yr old Zainab of Kasur or 8yr old Asifa of Jammu,these barbaric inhumane acts shud b condemned & those behind shud be punished to the max,let these cases be a lesson for the culprits whr no daughter will ever be subjected to this henious act <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NeverAgain?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NeverAgain</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JusticeforAsifa?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JusticeforAsifa</a></p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/984839561602895873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shocked, Disgusted and feeling sick to the core! What a shameful day for us, Zainab's killers must not only be hanged, they should be given such exemplary punishment that people should remember the lessson for ever. Pakistan rulers we're waiting for action!</p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/951123535283523590?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No offence it’s just Twitter,millions of people condemn such activities.I am asking what activities Afridi doing in ground level? If he is interested in talking to Kashmir is he doing same thing in Pakistan as well? Eventhough his intentions are great just using Twitter is not going to solve any problem in ground level.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

No offence it’s just Twitter,millions of people condemn such activities.I am asking what activities Afridi doing in ground level? If he is interested in talking to Kashmir is he doing same thing in Pakistan as well? Eventhough his intentions are great just using Twitter is not going to solve any problem in ground level.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about I guess. Please Google Shahid Afridi Foundation and you'll get to see what Afridi has been doing at the 'ground level' for years!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think MJ Akbar answers quite accurately. Answer starts at 54 seconds.

More here if can handle it.

I don't know who MJ Akbar is, neither do I watch videos posted here. If you can sum up his views in a few succinct sentences I will address it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No, no you cannot tackle all issues simultaneously. Afridi's so-called concern for Kashmir is pretty disingenuous. People like Afridi and other nationalists try to repackage their support for Kashmir as something that they are doing for humanity sake, but in truth, it is all about politics.

I will wade in and criticize hypocrites like Afridi whenever I feel like. With all due and undue respect, please do not tell me what to do. If you have any issues, take it up with the moderators.

I did take it up with the moderators and your racist posts were removed.

 

[mankuTimma]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about I guess. Please Google Shahid Afridi Foundation and you'll get to see what Afridi has been doing at the 'ground level' for years!

His foundation able to solve persecuation of Minorities in Pakistan? How much concerns his does bastion raised regarding minorities in Pakistan?

 

[Mamoon]

I did take it up with the moderators and your racist posts were removed.

Well done. That is the right way to go about it, if you find certain posts offensive or out of order. However, you do not tell me what to do and vice versa, because neither of us hold any position of authority here.

 

[Mamoon]

Then you ask why people call you Indian. An uninformed Indian would be kinda acceptable saying that Shias are discriminated against in Pakistan, but a guy who claims to lived the majority of his life in Pakistan and still say that seems very, very weird to put it mildly.


My house in Karachi had one of the biggest Imam Bargahs in the city just down the road and not one resident had any issues with it. During Moharram the major streets around the area were blocked for ma'atam jaloos, but everybody understood the purpose and no one had any problem with it. In all our classrooms there were several Shias and nobody was ever bothered about it (heck nobody even cared whether a student was Hindu/Christian). Shias comprise roughly 20% of the Pakistani population, had they been oppressed and discriminated against Pakistan wouldn't exist today. Heck Pakistan's creator was Shia, even the current President is Shia. Such discrimination.


I understand there is discrimination against minorities such as Hindus, Christians, Ahmedis etc by certain groups which specifically target them, but by and large the general population have no issues with them and adopt a "live and let life attitude".



You would have known all of what I said had you lived in Pakistan (which I don't doubt) but you parrot the Indian narrative to get more quotes and more replies.

You are looking at isolated examples. By the same token, I can give you many examples of Hindus who are living a prosperous life in Pakistan. Furthermore, there is a large Sikh community in Peshawar, and they are doing very well and no one discriminates against them.

However, I can also give you examples of discrimination against Shias. In fact, one of my close friends is a Shia, and his father was murdered in broad daylight. One of our PPers’ family moved to New Zealand from Karachi because of threats.

The fact is that there is serious discrimination against Shias in Pakistan. Is it on the same scale as the oppression in Kashmir? No, but the scale does not matter. Instead of poking our nose where it does not belong, we should look to improve the state of the minorities in Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

You've gone back to the Pakistanis first thing for some reason, by that logic no one outside India should speak for Asifa Bano or Kashmir or only Syrians speak about Syria. Makes no sense at all, being a kuwen ka mendak is a pretty selfish attitude

Yes I do think that if countries start minding their own business, the world would be a better place. Sort your own problems first before looking at others.

 

[Mamoon]

You've gone back to the Pakistanis first thing for some reason, by that logic no one outside India should speak for Asifa Bano or Kashmir or only Syrians speak about Syria. Makes no sense at all, being a kuwen ka mendak is a pretty selfish attitude

I should clarify that there is a difference between showing sympathy/concern etc. and slinging mud at the authorities.

People can and should sympathize with Kashmir, Palestine, Asifa Bano etc. and everything that is happening around, but if you are going to have a go at other countries for not protecting the victims, then you should be ready for backlash.

The reason why Afridi’s tweets received so much negative press was because he called the Government of India “ oppressive regime”.

You simply cannot say that about another country as an outsider, and expect to get away with it. Similarly, we should never forget what our government and our military did in East Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well done. That is the right way to go about it, if you find certain posts offensive or out of order. However, you do not tell me what to do and vice versa, because neither of us hold any position of authority here.

I didn't tell you what to do, I pointed out your straw man argument style in this thread, I don't think you need a position of authority to do that.

 

[OoparCut]

I don't know who MJ Akbar is, neither do I watch videos posted here. If you can sum up his views in a few succinct sentences I will address it.

Akbar points out the fact that while Pakistan was carved out as a nation based on religion, and for muslims, India was not, and is not "for hindus". The Indian republic is founded on the principle of secular diversity.

I can understand though, that from a Pakistani perspective, it is not easy to accept that India is a secular country. The implicit questions that are raised by that, are innately uncomfortable.

The second video goes on to talk about the idea of modern nations, and the in-build contradictions and challenges that Pakistan faces. And also touches on a bit of history of how Jinnah and the Muslim league didn't really exist as a political force in the 1930s, even in Punjab, in spite of having participated in elections where only muslims could vote. This was because the idea that muslims needed "security" from other Indians didn't really gain traction. After this, Jinnah changed his primary campaign to "Islam needs protection, instead of muslims" and that gained a lot more traction and marketability.


Look, in today's day and age, after 70 years or so, nobody really questions the existence or legitimacy of the Pakistani nation. I don't want to provoke anybody by even implying something like that. But if you can handle facts and actual history, there is ample evidence to show that the Muslim league wouldn't even have existed as a political force, if not for the heavy propping by the British. Who primarily did so as a way to prevent the Indian independence leadership and the Congress party from getting too much power and unity.

And also the fact that if not for Nehru's overly idealistic refusal to provide the British with military access and bases after independence, the British were unlikely to give too much support to the partition theory. In a post WW2 world, with the soviet communist threat looming large in Western minds - they rightly judged Nehru as someone with strong socialist sympathies. And they simply couldn't afford a scenario where a United India would 'turn red'.


All of that is water under the bridge now. And doesn't really matter anymore. We have had multiple generations on either side of the border that have been born, for whom the idea of an undivided India is simply ridiculous.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I should clarify that there is a difference between showing sympathy/concern etc. and slinging mud at the authorities.

People can and should sympathize with Kashmir, Palestine, Asifa Bano etc. and everything that is happening around, but if you are going to have a go at other countries for not protecting the victims, then you should be ready for backlash.

The reason why Afridi’s tweets received so much negative press was because he called the Government of India “ oppressive regime”.

You simply cannot say that about another country as an outsider, and expect to get away with it. Similarly, we should never forget what our government and our military did in East Pakistan.

So you want there to be no criticism of other governments on PP? No criticism of Trump, Putin,Netanyahu, the Saudi Prince, Bashar al Assad etc? If we can't call Trump stupid, what can we do

 

[OoparCut]

So you want there to be no criticism of other governments on PP? No criticism of Trump, Putin,Netanyahu, the Saudi Prince, Bashar al Assad etc? If we can't call Trump stupid, what can we do

Criticism of policies or individuals is very different from labeling a country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Criticism of policies or individuals is very different from labeling a country.

You mean like failed state, or sponsors of terrorism?

 

[OoparCut]

You mean like failed state, or sponsors of terrorism?

Please point to one instance where I have labeled Pakistan "failed state". I agree with MJ Akbar's tag of Jelly state. Lot of quivering, guaranteed due to the ideological design and fault-lines contained, but sufficient internal cohesion to still exist as a well-defined state.


I see you are still yet to respond to your requested summary of the MJ Akbar video.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Akbar points out the fact that while Pakistan was carved out as a nation based on religion, and for muslims, India was not, and is not "for hindus". The Indian republic is founded on the principle of secular diversity.

I can understand though, that from a Pakistani perspective, it is not easy to accept that India is a secular country. The implicit questions that are raised by that, are innately uncomfortable.

On the contrary, it would be quite easy to accept India is a secular nation if they didn't have a party based on Hindu nationalism which now forms the govt. A secular constitution which exists in paper, but which is not enforced without prejudice is meaningless.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Please point to one instance where I have labeled Pakistan "failed state". I agree with MJ Akbar's tag of Jelly state. Lot of quivering, guaranteed due to the ideological design and fault-lines contained, but sufficient internal cohesion to still exist as a well-defined state.


I see you are still yet to respond to your requested summary of the MJ Akbar video.

I made no mention of Pakistan, but you quickly assumed that was what I was talking about, which underlines my point quite comprehensively.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Criticism of policies or individuals is very different from labeling a country.

Oppressive regime refers to the government not the country