Russia proposes easing laws on corruption, saying it's unavoidable sometimes

[Zeeraq]

Russia's Ministry of Justice is proposing a change to make some corrupt acts exempt from punishment, if the corruption is found to be unavoidable. The proposed rule says officials and public figures could be exempt if "objective circumstances" made it impossible for them to comply with corruption laws.

Corruption that is "due to force majeure is not an offense," the proposal states. But it does not go into detail about the circumstances under which conflicts of interest, bribery, fraud and other offenses might be decriminalized.

The proposed rule, which is published online, was created to fulfill a decree signed by President Vladimir Putin last year. Because of that order, several federal agencies are now working to amend Russia's corruption laws, with the Justice Ministry leading the effort along with the ministries of labor and internal affairs and the public prosecutors' office.

The proposal is currently in a 15-day public comment period that opened Friday and will close on Feb. 8.

News of the corruption proposal is making headlines in Russia as the group Transparency International releases its annual Corruption Perceptions Index, which gives Russia a score of 28 out of 100 (with 100 being least corrupt).

The corruption index faults Russia's rampant cronyism and weak protections for citizens' civil rights. It also cites a biased judicial system and "a lack of trust among experts and businesspeople in the ability of the government to yield sustainable anti-corruption action."

Bribery in Russia increased in 2018, the Council of Europe said last month, citing Russian media in reporting that "the majority of corruption cases in 2018 were initiated against the staff of the Ministry of Interior of the Russian Federation," with more than 790 employees charged.

And according to a Russian criminal statistics website run by the federal Prosecutor General's Office, there were 3,315 registered cases from January to November 2018 in which a bribe was received in Russia and 2,408 cases in which a bribe was offered.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/29/6896...n-corruption-saying-its-unavoidable-sometimes

 

[Zeeraq]

In other news the Grand Opposition Alliance held a press conference and have completely endorsed this law and demanded that the selected government should pass this law on emergency basis for the betterment of the people of Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

The significance of corruption has always been overstated by the so-called revolutionists.

It is a very effective tool in gathering the masses and especially the poor. People buy into it easily.

What people don’t realize is that incompetency is a bigger problem than corruption. An honest but incompetent is a lot worse than a corrupt but competent regime.

 

[Syed1]

The significance of corruption has always been overstated by the so-called revolutionists.

It is a very effective tool in gathering the masses and especially the poor. People buy into it easily.

What people don’t realize is that incompetency is a bigger problem than corruption. An honest but incompetent is a lot worse than a corrupt but competent regime.

But what about the regimes that are incompetent AND corrupt, like your favourites Sharifs and Bhutto/Zardaris.

 

[Bewal Express]

The significance of corruption has always been overstated by the so-called revolutionists.

It is a very effective tool in gathering the masses and especially the poor. People buy into it easily.

What people don’t realize is that incompetency is a bigger problem than corruption. An honest but incompetent is a lot worse than a corrupt but competent regime.

Anything that justifies corruption not surprisingly has you as a supporter. In your desperation to justify your own families benefitting from Corruption you keep repeating this mantra that corrupt people are competent, they are not. They are just evil crooks that steal of the helpless to live the high a life. Maybe you can give evidence as to where the 2 most Corrupt people in our Politics-NS and AZ showed any competence.

 

[Robert]

Russia once again shows how they are at odds with liberal democracy.

 

[Bewal Express]

But what about the regimes that are incompetent AND corrupt, like your favourites Sharifs and Bhutto/Zardaris.

It's bizarre how some people sink so low to justify stealing off the poor. NS is so competent that he couldn't build one hospital in the whole PK that he could himself use, and AZ is so competent that Sindh is now a model province and things like Thar are just fake news.

 

[Napa]

<b>Anything that justifies corruption not surprisingly has you as a supporter.</b> In your desperation to justify your own families benefitting from Corruption you keep repeating this mantra that corrupt people are competent, they are not. They are just evil crooks that steal of the helpless to live the high a life. Maybe you can give evidence as to where the 2 most Corrupt people in our Politics-NS and AZ showed any competence.

You missed [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s point entirely. He is not for corruption, he is for performance. His point is that there is a mobilization in the name of "anti-corruption" by those who want continue the existing power structure in Pakistan which leads to economic incompetency.

For example, Air Marshal Arshad Malik recently became the chief of Pakistan Airlines. What does a Air Marshal know running a firm that has to compete internationally with private firms? Next to nothing. You can expect Pakistan Airlines to continue being outperformed by other airlines.

The military dominating the economy may not legally be corruption, but it leads to hundreds of billions of dollars in losses, and is worse than a corrupt government which, says skims off 5%, but delivers performance.

In an ideal world the government would be both competent and incorruptible.

 

[cric_man]

You missed [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s point entirely. He is not for corruption, he is for performance. His point is that there is a mobilization in the name of "anti-corruption" by those who want continue the existing power structure in Pakistan which leads to economic incompetency.

For example, Air Marshal Arshad Malik recently became the chief of Pakistan Airlines. What does a Air Marshal know running a firm that has to compete internationally with private firms? Next to nothing. You can expect Pakistan Airlines to continue being outperformed by other airlines.

The military dominating the economy may not legally be corruption, but it leads to hundreds of billions of dollars in losses, and is worse than a corrupt government which, says skims off 5%, but delivers performance.

In an ideal world the government would be both competent and incorruptible.

AM Arshad Malik has run PAC that has successfully developed multiple projects such as the JF-17. He is more than capable turning PIA around.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], in previous post has said that competent (read smart) corrupt people in government are better than honest incompetent ones. He fails to realise that corrupt never work for anyone else.

 

[Bewal Express]

You missed [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s point entirely. He is not for corruption, he is for performance. His point is that there is a mobilization in the name of "anti-corruption" by those who want continue the existing power structure in Pakistan which leads to economic incompetency.

For example, Air Marshal Arshad Malik recently became the chief of Pakistan Airlines. What does a Air Marshal know running a firm that has to compete internationally with private firms? Next to nothing. You can expect Pakistan Airlines to continue being outperformed by other airlines.

The military dominating the economy may not legally be corruption, but it leads to hundreds of billions of dollars in losses, and is worse than a corrupt government which, says skims off 5%, but delivers performance.

In an ideal world the government would be both competent and incorruptible.

No [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is for corruption, name anyone corrupt in PK from NS, SS to AZ, and he supports them, its more of a surprise when he doesnt. It emerged in the last few weeks that the PPP and AZ in Sindh has stolen over $7bn and this is nothing to do with the billions in fake accounts and guess what they are incompetent and corrupt.

And as far as the Air Marshall is concerned, maybe you need to look into what he is doing and not just be looking at his military role. The guy has made a great start and he is clearing up the mess that mamoon and his fellow crooks have made. The PIA has 18000 people working for it, ask [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] how these guys came to be employed.

 

[Napa]

AM Arshad Malik has run PAC that has successfully developed multiple projects such as the JF-17. He is more than capable turning PIA around.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], in previous post has said that competent (read smart) corrupt people in government are better than honest incompetent ones. He fails to realise that corrupt never work for anyone else.

A man who has run a public sector firm, especially a military man, will not succeed in the private sector. There is enough evidence for this, just wait and see where PIA is 5 years from now.

Every leader is corrupt in some way or the other, it is impossible to find one who is not. Whether IK is personally corrupt or not is an open question, but no one argues that he brought corrupt leaders into his party to help win the elections.

A leader like Bertie Ahern was probably personally corrupt, but he delivered high economic growth for Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Ahern

 

[Napa]

It emerged in the last few weeks that the PPP and AZ in Sindh has stolen over $7bn and this is nothing to do with the billions in fake accounts and guess what they are incompetent and corrupt.

You should not naively believe everything the government and NAB tells you. $7 bn is a lot of money, it cannot be hidden easily. Anyway, all I heard about NS was that he has 10 London flats, which likely are not even worth $0.07 billion.

And as far as the Air Marshall is concerned, maybe you need to look into what he is doing and not just be looking at his military role. The guy has made a great start and he is clearing up the mess that mamoon and his fellow crooks have made. The PIA has 18000 people working for it, ask [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] how these guys came to be employed.

The point is that the military monopolizes the plum jobs in the economy. An airlines should be led by someone from the private sector who has experience running airlines. There are many such people available in the world. The fact that the military man has got this job means that PIA won't have the leadership to compete with private airlines. I am willing to bet money that in 5 years you will find that PIA still is far behind other airlines like Emirates, Jet Airways, Indigo etc. etc.

 

[slipcatch]

You should not naively believe everything the government and NAB tells you. $7 bn is a lot of money, it cannot be hidden easily. Anyway, all I heard about NS was that he has 10 London flats, which likely are not even worth $0.07 billion.



The point is that the military monopolizes the plum jobs in the economy. An airlines should be led by someone from the private sector who has experience running airlines. There are many such people available in the world. The fact that the military man has got this job means that PIA won't have the leadership to compete with private airlines. I am willing to bet money that in 5 years you will find that PIA still is far behind other airlines like Emirates, Jet Airways, Indigo etc. etc.

It will take more than 5 years to revive PIA with or without Army personal.

So don’t bet your money.

Lol at $7 billion can not be hidden easily in Pakistan.

This guy is just.. lol

Like I’ve told you multiple times you have no idea about Pakistan.

 

[Halaribo]

This is a personal attack and I am pretty sure you do not have evidence to say this.

From his own fingers, he typed on here that his Dad used to get VIP treatment at airports and skip queue's as a government worker, and that there's nothing wrong with it.

It's a fact.

 

[Napa]

From his own fingers, he typed on here that his Dad used to get VIP treatment at airports and skip queue's as a government worker, and that there's nothing wrong with it.

It's a fact.

My dad used to stay in a government guest house when we travelled, and though in a position to "make money" in his job, he never did. There are some perks to a government job (which pay a lot less than the private sector) that are neither illegal nor unethical. I don't see any basis for these outlandish accusations against Mamoon.

The top 100 Pakistani generals are worth $4 billion or more.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2008/01/the-military-millionaires-who-control-pakistan-inc/

Is this "corruption", probably not prosecutable as this was all "legally" given to the generals. However it is worse than stealing $4 billion as with it comes insecurity and military domination of the economy resulting in stagnation.

 

[Greenstorm]

You missed [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s point entirely. He is not for corruption, he is for performance. His point is that there is a mobilization in the name of "anti-corruption" by those who want continue the existing power structure in Pakistan which leads to economic incompetency.

For example, Air Marshal Arshad Malik recently became the chief of Pakistan Airlines. What does a Air Marshal know running a firm that has to compete internationally with private firms? Next to nothing. You can expect Pakistan Airlines to continue being outperformed by other airlines.

The military dominating the economy may not legally be corruption, but it leads to hundreds of billions of dollars in losses, and is worse than a corrupt government which, says skims off 5%, but delivers performance.

In an ideal world the government would be both competent and incorruptible.

If I am not wrong, PIA was one of the top airlines in the world under Air Marshal Noor Khan.

 

[Greenstorm]

My dad used to stay in a government guest house when we travelled, and though in a position to "make money" in his job, he never did. There are some perks to a government job (which pay a lot less than the private sector) that are neither illegal nor unethical. I don't see any basis for these outlandish accusations against Mamoon.

The top 100 Pakistani generals are worth $4 billion or more.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2008/01/the-military-millionaires-who-control-pakistan-inc/

Is this "corruption", probably not prosecutable as this was all "legally" given to the generals. However it is worse than stealing $4 billion as with it comes insecurity and military domination of the economy resulting in stagnation.

The article that you are sharing is from 2008 when country was under military rule for 9 years and even than there is a lot of exaggeration and biased reporting in the article.

 

[Napa]

If I am not wrong, PIA was one of the top airlines in the world under Air Marshal Noor Khan.

The airline industry in 2019 is entirely different from the one of the 1960s and 1970s. Back then if your airlines was able to buy a few 747s, it was considered a success. Now, the intensity of competition is at an entirely different level. Only those who have a lot of experience in running airlines can succeed as a CEO.

Anyway, this is just one example. Why does the military get the plum jobs? Hoping for a possible exception like Noor Khan is no way to succeed.

Unless appointments are based on merit rather than nepotism, the economy will continue to stagnate and modern industries will not develop.

 

[Napa]

The article that you are sharing is from 2008 when country was under military rule for 9 years and even than there is a lot of exaggeration and biased reporting in the article.

The structure of the economy hasn't changed in the last ten years. The same pattern continues. The military gets top jobs like the CEO of PIA, even though they are not qualified. To say nothing of fomenting tension with India so that the country continues to back them, while the resulting lack of security keeps away foreign investment.

If you wish, you can find more articles which discuss the Pakistani Army's stranglehold on the economy.

 

[Mamoon]

From his own fingers, he typed on here that his Dad used to get VIP treatment at airports and skip queue's as a government worker, and that there's nothing wrong with it.

It's a fact.

Yes it is a fact and yes there is nothing wrong with it. Your whining will not change anything.

It is incredibly difficult to get into Pakistan’s Civil Service. Anyone who clears the several hurdles and becomes a part of Pakistan’s bureaucracy is not only entitled to, but also deserves VIP privileges and special treatment.

These privileges include free healthcare in public hospitals, avoiding queues at Pakistani airports, getting passports, NICs, driving licenses etc. delivered urgently, fleet card provided by Pakistan State Oil after retirement etc.

All of these perks are provided to the civil servants to compensate them for the low salaries that they get.

A 20 grade bureaucrat with years of service is paid as much as an average joe with a few years of experiences in the private sector with substandard degrees.

What you are trying to say is that in spite of being paid peanuts, civil servants should not be entitled to any VIP treatment either. Perhaps they should be renamed “Civil Slaves”.

As far as corruption is concerned, I cannot answer that because I cannot speak for my father. However, the major driving force behind corruption is the massive disparity between the public and private sector salaries.

At the end of the day, all these perks and privileges are not substitutes for money. The take-home salary of a civil servant is just about enough to cover your expenses.

When people who cannot match your experience, competency and have tried but failed to be in the position you are today take home more than you do because of a private sector job, it is only natural that you will be enticed to do corruption.

It is not a justification but a cause, and that is why the vast overwhelming majority of civil servants have done some corruption at some level.

The Government of Pakistan as well as Imran Khan recognizes that the civil service cannot be corruption free, and that is why there has not been a serious crackdown on corrupt bureaucrats.

I will not name the person, but Imran recently handpicked a bureaucrat, a relative of mine, to head a very important public sector.

He comes from a middle-class family, but his daughter is studying in one of the most expensive schools in the world in Switzerland.

Where is that money coming from? Do you think Imran is not aware of it? Of course he is, but he also recognizes that his competency and experience is of more value, and charging him with corruption would do more harm than good.

Pakistan cannot afford to pay high salaries to its civil servants. Hence, in spite of compensating them with perks, they understand that they cannot eradicate corruption completely.

If the government starts to go after the corrupt in bureaucracy, Pakistan’s civil service will turn on its head and intelligent, hard work people will not opt for civil service anymore.

 

[Mamoon]

AM Arshad Malik has run PAC that has successfully developed multiple projects such as the JF-17. He is more than capable turning PIA around.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], in previous post has said that competent (read smart) corrupt people in government are better than honest incompetent ones. He fails to realise that corrupt never work for anyone else.

Pakistan’s Civil Service has proved that it is not the case. To understand corruption, we need to break it down into two broad groups of corruption:

(1) people who join civil service with the sole intention of looting

(2) people who do corruption out of necessity.

The vast majority of corrupt civil servants fall in category two, and I will explain why.

To join the civil service, you need a lot of dedication and hard work. People who only desire to loot usually do not have the capacity to work so hard. You will find such people in politics but very rarely in civil service.

Even if that is your intention initially, by the time you pass through the hurdles, you develop the aptitude for hard work and and you carry these characteristics with you when you eventually join service.

The second category, where a large number of civil servants fit into, are the people who excel at their jobs, reach the top but also have to look after their families.

What do you expect a hard working and competent SSP or DIG to do when his basic salary package does not even allow him to send his children to an expensive, private school or to buy a good car?

Is he not better than an average police officer who is not doing any corruption but it is also not excelling at his job?

The ideal situation is of course to be good at your job and not do any corruption at all. Such people do exist, but they are very rare.

Again, these people fall into two categories. They are either from an affluent background and don’t need to do corruption to live a good life, or they simply have no desire to live a luxurious life and are fully dedicated to their jobs. These are the best types of civil servants in Pakistan but also the rarest.