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Sachin Tendulkar - The Ultimate Discussion

Dravid was terrible against bounce and an inferior to sachin vs spin, he was better than sachin vs swing though, it's funny how everyone who tries to micro-analyze sachin's stats doesn't do the same for other cricketers then you would know that the faults you try to find in sachin are much bigger in other players who you claim to be better
To me Sachin was the best all round batsman of his time. Best Odi batsman and among the best in tests. No other player apart from pointing could claim to be at that level in both forms. I have rated Dravid over Tendulker in test cricket when they were playing together let alone now.
Maybe I just remember Sachin getting Schooled by Asif and Afridi in test cricket so dont rate him as highly.

Sent from my SM-G925I
 
When it comes to quality bowling attacks and performance in various conditions, Sachin was obviously better. But Dravid was a better pressure player.Having said that, Dravid was still excellent vs good to great bowling attacks but Sachin was simply in his own league.His stature always remained ahead of Dravid throughout their career.
 
Not sure how else I can explain it to you. You are only making assumptions. Those numbers don't mean much. You need head to head data if you want to properly analyse what so and so batsman has done against so and so bowlers. Otherwise it's meaningless.

* yes... i am making assumptions. BUT ....assumptions based on probablity. when sACHIN could score 691 runs
it is not difficult to assume that there is every probablity of scoring 200 runs vs AMB/WAL alone.Even a
minimum 160 will get an avg: of 160/2 = 80,which is a mammoth one(50 can be termed a great one)
 
Steyn's not looked more lethal than that. I don't you understand the game when you say stuff like that. You're supposed to preserve your wicket against the best bowlers and target the weaker ones. Steyn was bowling banana outswing that match, unplayable stuff. Watching him tame Steyn there was a sight to behold, those who followed the mach back then would testify to it [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] knows whati'm talking about regarding that match and battle between Sach and Steyn.

:facepalm: That's why these stats are meaning less, anyone who watched that match would know it is not the runs off steyn that mattered, Steyn was bowling an absolute dream spell and tendulkar countered him and shielded the other batsman, steyn would have ripped through the Indian order if sachin had got out, it was an absolute joy to watch sachin vs steyn in that match, go to youtube and hear what steyn has to say about that spell vs sachin, these things don't translate into stats, that's why you actual have to watch cricket to know the difference in stature of sachin and sanga.

That example was obviously (clearly not obvious to some I guess) used to show all those numbers about averaging this and that "against" so and so is way off the mark. Not about the knock itself. As for the stats what's wrong with it. An attack consisting of Steyn/Morkel/Tsotsobe/Harris/Petersen not exactly a strong SA attack is it.
 
Here's an example (from the same analysis)

Sachin's 146 at Cape Town in 2011



178703.jpg

Start looking beyond stats FFS.
 
First Pakistanis were like:

Ponting, Ponting, Ponting

They they were like:

Kallis Kallis Kallis

Now they are like:

Sanga Sanga Sanga...



Ahhh the hold SRT has over some Pakistanis is truly scary...

First they were like

Lara, Lara, Lara.
 
* yes... i am making assumptions. BUT ....assumptions based on probablity. when sACHIN could score 691 runs
it is not difficult to assume that there is every probablity of scoring 200 runs vs AMB/WAL alone.Even a
minimum 160 will get an avg: of 160/2 = 80,which is a mammoth one(50 can be termed a great one)

What probabilities are you talking about. Ones you have made up yourself lol
 
That example was obviously (clearly not obvious to some I guess) used to show all those numbers about averaging this and that "against" so and so is way off the mark. Not about the knock itself. As for the stats what's wrong with it. An attack consisting of Steyn/Morkel/Tsotsobe/Harris/Petersen not exactly a strong SA attack is it.

There are so many factors involved in a match, pitch conditions, match situation, pressure etc. Even binny looks dangerous in helpful conditions so if someone scores against him in good bowling conditions, will you just dismiss that innings because it came against binny?

If you just go by stats then you don't know even half the picture, Tendulkar was a better player of spin, bounce and swing compared to sanga, anyone who watched both can deduce that
 
First Pakistanis were like:

Ponting, Ponting, Ponting

They they were like:

Kallis Kallis Kallis

Now they are like:

Sanga Sanga Sanga...



Ahhh the hold SRT has over some Pakistanis is truly scary...
Lol you missed the main one - AB Devilliers. You should see some Ind Pak comments battle in facebook and how Pakistanis defending ABDV and downplaying Sachin as if AB plays for Pakistan. So funny...

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As explained the guy who carried out the analysis used weighted average to determine the strength of the attacks these batsmen faced going through all of their innings one by one. He also found out the median by going through and doing the same for all Test matches in order to divide them into stronger (below median) and weaker (above median) attacks.

See here for more info

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...gainst-the-best-bowlers&p=6519482#post6519482

Paints a much more accurate picture of things than those meaningless numbers you and some others were posting.
may be.. the guy had his own method.But it is crystal clear from Sanga's record that his avg:s in all countries
where not up to the mark.I think he has some 3 or 4 below 40 away avg:s.isn't it? And he has much lesser sample
size in away tests when compared to sachin.Yet his avg:s in all countries are not so uniformly distributed as that
of Sachin's .Keep in mind Sachin has 40+ avg:s in all countries he played. And with much larger sample size too.

So if we relate the above said point to that guy's method, it reveals one thing. It doesn't reveal the disparity between home and abroad performance.For instance take sANGA'S record vs SAF. In SL he was a monster vs SAF. But in
SAF he was only good at the best with a 35 avg: . Similarly it also doesn't reveal the disparity country wise too.
For instance Sanga was brilliant in NZL & AUS. BUT in IND & SAF he was only good.Similarly it also doesn't take into
account the sample size disparity in home and abroad conditions.All the guy has done is cluster together all data
and reach a conclusion.
 
There are so many factors involved in a match, pitch conditions, match situation, pressure etc. Even binny looks dangerous in helpful conditions so if someone scores against him in good bowling conditions, will you just dismiss that innings because it came against binny?

If you just go by stats then you don't know even half the picture, Tendulkar was a better player of spin, bounce and swing compared to sanga, anyone who watched both can deduce that

Of course there are many other variables and some of them very difficult to quantify. But those numbers mean more than some average against this and that bowler nonsense off CI. That was what that analysis was directed at. As for Sachin no one is denying that he was a top quality bat but if he was that much better than the rest as some here are claiming then the numbers should show that right (and I'm not talking about just quantity here). But they don't. If you ask me I think he owes a fair chunk of his success to Dravid because Sachin wasn't too flash against the new ball.
 
may be.. the guy had his own method.But it is crystal clear from Sanga's record that his avg:s in all countries
where not up to the mark.I think he has some 3 or 4 below 40 away avg:s.isn't it? And he has much lesser sample
size in away tests when compared to sachin.Yet his avg:s in all countries are not so uniformly distributed as that
of Sachin's .Keep in mind Sachin has 40+ avg:s in all countries he played. And with much larger sample size too.

So if we relate the above said point to that guy's method, it reveals one thing. It doesn't reveal the disparity between home and abroad performance.For instance take sANGA'S record vs SAF. In SL he was a monster vs SAF. But in
SAF he was only good at the best with a 35 avg: . Similarly it also doesn't reveal the disparity country wise too.
For instance Sanga was brilliant in NZL & AUS. BUT in IND & SAF he was only good.Similarly it also doesn't take into
account the sample size disparity in home and abroad conditions.All the guy has done is cluster together all data
and reach a conclusion.

This more/less than 40 ave stuff is pointless. As if some 30 odd more runs in India, 40 more runs in WI and some 60 odd more runs in SA defines a 12.5k run Test career. He averages 60+ in 7 of the 11 places btw. Not bad for a no3 Test bat (that too keeping wickets in a third of em) during a career spanning 15+ years I would say.

Not sure wth you are going on about. That analysis is the best I've come across when it comes to dissecting stronger and weaker attacks. Sure beats your "probabilities" and "assumption" by a long long way don't you think.
 
Btw he has divided them into home and away as well. So again not sure what you are looking at.
 
Choked 4 times there as well.

Lol no he didn't. If you are referring to the dropped catches then that's hardly his fault. And we gave to keep in mind that Ajmal and Hafeez were chucking away to glory as well. If you had played 2 "bowlers" instead , he would have destroyed Pakistan just like he did in 2003 :)
 
Lol no he didn't. If you are referring to the dropped catches then that's hardly his fault. And we gave to keep in mind that Ajmal and Hafeez were chucking away to glory as well. If you had played 2 "bowlers" instead , he would have destroyed Pakistan just like he did in 2003 :)

Dropped catches imply chocking of the fielding side, it was pakistan who choked 4 times :misbah
 
Lol no he didn't. If you are referring to the dropped catches then that's hardly his fault. And we gave to keep in mind that Ajmal and Hafeez were chucking away to glory as well. If you had played 2 "bowlers" instead , he would have destroyed Pakistan just like he did in 2003 :)

We are big hearted people so gave not one but four chances to finally score some runs under pressure before retiring. Poor guy just didn't wanna be there.
 
We are big hearted people so gave not one but four chances to finally score some runs under pressure before retiring. Poor guy just didn't wanna be there.

Pakistanis certainly are large hearted :afridi no doubt . You have forgiven chokers/fixers/chuckers/ball tamperers and even managed to uphold them as role model sportsmen. :bow:
 
Of course there are many other variables and some of them very difficult to quantify. But those numbers mean more than some average against this and that bowler nonsense off CI. That was what that analysis was directed at. As for Sachin no one is denying that he was a top quality bat but if he was that much better than the rest as some here are claiming then the numbers should show that right (and I'm not talking about just quantity here). But they don't. If you ask me I think he owes a fair chunk of his success to Dravid because Sachin wasn't too flash against the new ball.

This is a myth.

Dravid did not score a single ton against ATG bowlers coming in early with the new ball in play.

In SRT's case, just by memory i can recollect Melbourne 1999 (full strength Aus attack) Edgbaston 1996 (not great bowlers but very tough conditions, none of the other batsmen could score above 20) and Cape Town 2011 (Steyn) as great knocks outside the SC, with SRT coming in against the new ball against the greatest bowlers on the planet. Chennai 1999 and Nagpur 2010 too at home (Wasim,Waqar,Steyn). Against the second new ball i remember Sydney 1992 (came in after the previous two batsmen were out in successive overs with the new ball in effect) and Headingly 2002 among others. Also check how he thrashed the second new ball out of effect in Napier 2009 when Gambhir played an epic. I think all or most of these knocks came at a time when the match was poised heavily against India, so these weren't low pressure dead rubber knocks.

I would rate SRT above his contemporaries simply because of his near flawless record outside home. Whereas Lara and Ponting were more devastating in their comfort zone. Viv Richards was a better ODI batsman (greatest ever) but i would rate SRT higher in tests.
 
Word great is bandied about often, but Tendulkar is the greatest after Bradman: Ponting

New Delhi: Former Australia skipper Ricky Ponting has rated Sachin Tendulkar as the all-time best batsman after Sir Donald Bradman, saying the maestro truly deserves to be called "great" at a time when the word is "bandied" about often.

"For me, he's the greatest batsman after Don Bradman. While I hold Brian Lara in high regard because of his match-winning ability, I don't think any batsman can achieve more out of the game than Sachin has," Ponting wrote in his foreword for a book titled 'Tendulkar in Wisden: An anthology'.
"The word great is often bandied about, but great is something that's achieved over a long period of time. Sachin played 200 Tests and 463 ODIs (and one Twenty20 International), scored 34,357 runs and 100 international hundreds -- that is great.


"Younger players may reach No.1 over a period of 12 or 18 months -- that's not great. That's having a good year. If you can do it as long as Sachin did, only then you be considered great," he further stated.
Ponting chose five words to describe the iconic cricketer -- "competitive, passionate, driven, composed, complete".

"Sachin is the greatest batsman I ever played with or against, because he made batting look so simple. His technique was always rock solid, but he still managed to take the game away from you really quickly. He was the most rounded batsman I have known," he wrote.
Tendulkar's hunger to achieve his dreams is what has impressed Ponting the most.

"His abiding love for the game and pursuit of goals were astonishing -- just to keep motivating yourself every day for 24 years to stay hungry and fit is what I admire so much. He had dreams of winning a World Cup, and he finally got to do it in his sixth tournament, in 2011."
Ponting felt it was impossible "anyone will ever play 200 Tests again, or score 100 hundreds" like Tendulkar did.

According to the Aussie legend, Tendulkar's contemporaries were constantly chasing the benchmarks he set.

"We were always always trying to play catch-up, and he always managed to stay ahead. It was an indication of his class. Even though he is a couple of years older than I am, it seemed he would outlast me -- and he did."
One of Ponting's most cherished moments was to open the batting with Tendulkar, even if it did not last too long, "thanks to my poor form".
"It was good to talk to him about his batting philosophy, to get an insight into his mindset and fundamentals. I was also fortunate to get a real sense of his approach to batting -- the intricate attention paid to every detail about equipment, preparation, technique -- and it was unlike anything I had ever seen," said Ponting.

Ponting revealed that the Australian team at one point in time had spent hours coming up with plans for Tendulkar. "...how we were going to bowl to him and, if we were lucky, get him out. He was not just a gifted batsman, but had the mental side of his game sorted out too.

"At Sydney in 2003-04, when he was going through rough time, he didn't play a single cover-drive: I had immense appreciation for that level of discipline and determination. It's one thing to have a plan, but to go out there and execute it over the course of the innings that lasted 10 hours and 13 minutes, 436 balls and 241 runs was just incredible. And he was still not out at the end of it," Ponting recalled.

Ponting termed Tendulkar as a "mild-mannered guy" on and off the field.
"He was always a mild-mannered guy who never let his emotions get the better of him on the field. And that's what he's like off the field too -- calm and relaxed. But you can see he gets nervous around the changing room. I enjoyed sitting back and observing him -- he has his tics and superstitions," Ponting, who led Australia in 77 Tests and 247 limited-overs games, wrote.
Thanks to IPL, Ponting said he got a chance to know Tendulkar better as a person.

"Over the last couple of years -- during my association with the Mumbai Indians -- I've got to know him better. ...it was a delight to get to know him away from the publicity's glare and over a glass of wine -- Sachin and I have done a lot of that over the last couple of years, and I think we've both been able to appreciate each other a lot more as a result," Ponting said.
He also applauded Tendulkar's ability to handle pressure of expectations of his billions of fans.


Source
 
Ponting always praises Sachin right before IPL and then proceeds to pull Sachin's leg right after IPL.
 
Well....

When you consider both formats and his adaptability once his super powers waned, you have to give it to Sachin as the greatest and most complete bat of all time.

But he was not the best in either format. :yk
 
Then you should always write "in your opinion" before making such statements

That would be redundant cos everything in forums is an opinion.

That's like saying sky is blue.

And there's unanimous view which is divided as to who is best in tests and ODI. So can't call something as fact when views are so divided.
 
Then you should always write "in your opinion" before making such statements

Don't take it so serious. :srini

Everything on the forums is subjective opinion of others.

And yeah, in any sport/cricket, there's no objective way of saying X is best. X is best in your opinion, not necessarily in others.
 
This more/less than 40 ave stuff is pointless. As if some 30 odd more runs in India, 40 more runs in WI and some 60 odd more runs in SA defines a 12.5k run Test career. He averages 60+ in 7 of the 11 places btw. Not bad for a no3 Test bat (that too keeping wickets in a third of em) during a career spanning 15+ years I would say.

Not sure wth you are going on about. That analysis is the best I've come across when it comes to dissecting stronger and weaker attacks. Sure beats your "probabilities" and "assumption" by a long long way don't you think.

Each to their own. You shall stick with your's and i shall stick with mine. No regrets.
 
Very strong contender for 2nd greatest ever along with Viv and Sobers..
 
This is a myth.

Dravid did not score a single ton against ATG bowlers coming in early with the new ball in play.

In SRT's case, just by memory i can recollect Melbourne 1999 (full strength Aus attack) Edgbaston 1996 (not great bowlers but very tough conditions, none of the other batsmen could score above 20) and Cape Town 2011 (Steyn) as great knocks outside the SC, with SRT coming in against the new ball against the greatest bowlers on the planet. Chennai 1999 and Nagpur 2010 too at home (Wasim,Waqar,Steyn). Against the second new ball i remember Sydney 1992 (came in after the previous two batsmen were out in successive overs with the new ball in effect) and Headingly 2002 among others. Also check how he thrashed the second new ball out of effect in Napier 2009 when Gambhir played an epic. I think all or most of these knocks came at a time when the match was poised heavily against India, so these weren't low pressure dead rubber knocks.

I would rate SRT above his contemporaries simply because of his near flawless record outside home. Whereas Lara and Ponting were more devastating in their comfort zone. Viv Richards was a better ODI batsman (greatest ever) but i would rate SRT higher in tests.

Defo not a myth. It's not just about the runs scored. Dravid's ability to spend long periods at the crease was a huge asset to the team which is quite often hugely under-appreciated. On average he played out 123 balls per dismissal (over 20 overs). In all Dravid has faced close to 31.5k deliveries. To put that into perspective no other batsman has faced more than 29k deliveries in Test cricket history. He made life a lot easier for batsmen around him especially the ones coming after him.
 
Against the new/newish ball

Dravid

Screen%20Shot%202015-09-22%20at%208.45.39%20pm_zpsekzhoe8g.png


Sachin

Screen%20Shot%202015-09-22%20at%207.45.59%20pm_zps4u36jh05.png


So point of entry less than 20

Dravid averaged 47
Sachin averaged 40

Point of entry 21-50

Dravid averaged 53
Sachin averaged 51
 
Point of entry less than 50 averages (ie against the newish ball) for some of the other modern-day bats

Screen%20Shot%202016-01-04%20at%203.25.47%20PM_zpssy919dmb.png
 
Pray tell how does one compare a batsman from the 30's/40's to a batsman in the 90's/00's ? What specific parameters do you use and what qualitative analysis is used to come to this conclusion of yours?

I agree it's impossible to compare batsman from 30s to 90s but if a bloke averages almost 40 more than the guy next, it's safe to crown him as no 1

But as usual one-eyed patriots will keep fantacizing their heroes to be no 1: not much different from those who consider Imran greatest cricketer, Wasim greatest pacer or Murali greatest spinner..

Personally find these arguments pretty cute :)
 
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Against the new/newish ball

Dravid

Screen%20Shot%202015-09-22%20at%208.45.39%20pm_zpsekzhoe8g.png


Sachin

Screen%20Shot%202015-09-22%20at%207.45.59%20pm_zps4u36jh05.png


So point of entry less than 20

Dravid averaged 47
Sachin averaged 40

Point of entry 21-50

Dravid averaged 53
Sachin averaged 51

How did you calculate Dravid's average for point of entry scores less than 20, since the innings total in that table includes not outs?
 
. As for the stats what's wrong with it. An attack consisting of Steyn/Morkel/Tsotsobe/Harris/Petersen not exactly a strong SA attack is it.

Huh ??? SA won their first ever series in Australia with a similar attack, lol Ohh Sorry buddy I know the SA attack is not as strong as an attack consisting of Damika Prasad, Malinga etc :)) but come on buddy :murali
 
How did you calculate Dravid's average for point of entry scores less than 20, since the innings total in that table includes not outs?

2322/38.07 = 61
2482/60.54 = 41
(2322+2482)/(61+41) = 47
 
Huh ??? SA won their first ever series in Australia with a similar attack, lol Ohh Sorry buddy I know the SA attack is not as strong as an attack consisting of Damika Prasad, Malinga etc :)) but come on buddy :murali

If you think that's a strong attack then good luck to ya.
 
Anyway lets get back to Normality now that little sri Lankan up above me is happy and live in his own little world... 9244 posts and counting shows the immense influence of SRT :D
 
Anyway lets get back to Normality now that little sri Lankan up above me is happy and live in his own little world... 9244 posts and counting shows the immense influence of SRT :D

You better watch what you post unless you want to spend some time in the naughty corner. Run along now.
 
First they were like

Lara, Lara, Lara.

But But BUT Lara only avges 32 vs Mcgrath in Australia in tests though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lara comparison is a valid one, both him and SRT are equal imo. SRT was more pleasing and elegant on the eye while Lara had this flare which was amazing... In this instance even though the some Pakistanis are picking Lara because SRT is Indian, I would have no issues here............
 
Anyone who has watched the two geniuses play carefully over the years realizes that Lara was the better batsmen of the two. Tendulkar was way ahead in ODI's though as Lara required more time to settle. Tendulkar was more consistent and assured but Lara took batsmenship to levels I didn't think were possible. Both were great and IMO comfortably ahead of any of their contemporaries, I think the likes of Ponting, Sanga, Kallis etc are all a level below the two greats, despite the numbers.
 
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Lara was the most talented and Sachin the most complete, there was no chink in his armor.

However, the batsman I used to fear the most from a Pakistani perspective was Ponting. The quicker they came the quicker he would dispatch you to the boundary.
 
Here is a well known but mind blowing statistic: From 1 Jan 1993 to 31 Dec 2010 (18 years), Sachin made 13447 runs at an average of 58.97 with 46 centuries. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

This is including some of his terrible years due to injuries. Despite this there are certain people like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] who rate Sangakkara higher because of their averages.

Anyway it doesn't matter what his overall career statistics show. Anyone who has watched Sachin throughout his career knows how brilliant he was before the end of his career (especially in the 1990s).

Good one !!! ... add one year to it and it extends to 14K Test Runs and 50 Test Hundreds which no-one has yet achieved.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;template=results;type=batting;view=match


Yes but if you're going to discount the end of Sachin's career then you have to do it for all batsmen.

At no point have I commented on the start of his career.

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]

Yes agreed that it has to be done for others too ... but Viv Richards as per your suggestion is a bad example as he had prolonged period of below 45 avg ...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...template=results;type=batting;view=cumulative

the max contiguous tests for Viv with AVG like SRT's 58+ is about 50-55 tests and less than 5K runs. It amounts to about 1/3rd of Tendulkars peak .... All this while 50% of worlds best fast bowlers of that time were in Viv's team.


I meant a general trend. Greater concentration of matches in the 90's compare to the 70's?

between 74 and 84 (Vivs Peak years ) the West Indies played 91 tests compared to Tendulkars 69 tests for the same time duration (Tendulkars first 11 yrs)

No matter how you slice it and dice it he comes up top even with significant disadvantages. I hope you see why Tendulkar has the kind of following as he does :)
 
He is cool as well.

Drives BMW i8. Checks out Wimbledon semis or finals every year in royal box.
 
Lara was the most talented and Sachin the most complete, there was no chink in his armor.

However, the batsman I used to fear the most from a Pakistani perspective was Ponting. The quicker they came the quicker he would dispatch you to the boundary.

Asif, mate your opinion could have changed a lot had Pakistan played a lot of test cricket at home where i am sure Kaneria, Saqlain and later AJmal would have eaten him alive. I mean Harbhajan and Murali Karthik screwed his test stats in India over and over again, none of them were better than your spinners i mentioned.

Ponting like Smith, a natural against pace bowling. I am not even sure if he would have been ok against your reverse swinging bowlers in Pakistan. You played most of your test cricket against them in his home.
 
A lot of delusional conspiracy theories being busted.

Haters, please have some shame. It ain't working. No one bar Bradman has a case against Sachin lol.
 
A lot of delusional conspiracy theories being busted.

Haters, please have some shame. It ain't working. No one bar Bradman has a case against Sachin lol.

Lara was a better batsmen than Sachin in tests IMO. Ponting, Sanga, Kallis or anyone else from the past 20 years don't even come close to Lara or Sachin.
 
Lara was a better batsmen than Sachin in tests IMO. Ponting, Sanga, Kallis or anyone else from the past 20 years don't even come close to Lara or Sachin.

Amazing player without doubt. I can see why you'd prefer Lara there are also understandable reasons why many would do the opposite. THose are very specific reasons. ANy fair overall analysis would have Tendulkar 2 steps ahead of Lara.
 
Sachin was the best of all time. He made Bradman look like Breadman. Took heart to type this but at the end of the day I'm an honest lad, and you can't extinguish greatness. :sachin

I remember opening in Brian Lara 2007 on PS2 with Sachin and Imran Nazir, 2 massive talented batsmen, one accumulated the other bludgeoned the ball.
 
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:facepalm:

Sachin isn't even the greatest batsman out of India let alone the World.

Run accumulation is one thing, but the impact those runs make is another.
And yes, that's why players like Viv and AB standout above others. They are the game changers. The difference makers.
 
:facepalm:

Sachin isn't even the greatest batsman out of India let alone the World.

Run accumulation is one thing, but the impact those runs make is another.
And yes, that's why players like Viv and AB standout above others. They are the game changers. The difference makers.
Mention of Super-AB gave it away man. :)))
 
Sachin was the best of all time. He made Bradman look like Breadman. Took heart to type this but at the end of the day I'm an honest lad, and you can't extinguish greatness. :sachin

I remember opening in Brian Lara 2007 on PS2 with Sachin and Imran Nazir, 2 massive talented batsmen, one accumulated the other bludgeoned the ball.

My favorite was Sara Afred. :afridi
 
Bradman and Viv were clearly better batsmen than Sachin. Lara and Sobers were arguably better. Some people might not want to accept it but this is the truth.
 
Bradman and Viv were clearly better batsmen than Sachin. Lara and Sobers were arguably better. Some people might not want to accept it but this is the truth.

How was Viv clearly better than Tendulkar?
 
How was Viv clearly better than Tendulkar?

Stood head and shoulders above his competition and dominated the bowlers like no other batsman in history. He did all that while wearing a cap and chewing-gum.

This is why he was clearly better than Sachin Tendulker.
 
Stood head and shoulders above his competition and dominated the bowlers like no other batsman in history. He did all that while wearing a cap and chewing-gum.

This is why he was clearly better than Sachin Tendulker.

Myth buster.

Viv didn't dominate bowlers more than even Sehwag.
 
By being better at pretty much EVERYTHING?

Losing matches sure. Sachin is no1 there.


Which bowler did Sachin dominate that Viv could not in the same time frame??
Please name them and describe how Sachin decimated them, while Viv was made a bunny.

I look forward to a proper response, instead of thoughtless one-liner like above.
 
Sehwag dominated bowlers on flat pitches, mostly at home. How dominant was he in England, South Africa or New Zealand?

:)))

Mere kutta kutta, tumhara kutta tommy?

Viv belted bowlers on flat pitches just like Sehwag. Pretty much all big knocks are like that only. There's hardly been instances of batting brutalities in bowling conditions. Its not like Viv's taken apart spinners on rank turners any better Sachin or KP.
 
:)))

Mere kutta kutta, tumhara kutta tommy?

Viv belted bowlers on flat pitches just like Sehwag. Pretty much all big knocks are like that only. There's hardly been instances of batting brutalities in bowling conditions. Its not like Viv's taken apart spinners on rank turners any better Sachin or KP.

Are you kidding me? Asian pitches are flatter than pitches outside of Asia, generally speaking, and this was even truer back in the 80s and 90s. Viv played his brutal knocks on pitches where there was plenty of support for the bowlers and he did that while wearing a cap, not a helmet.
 
Are you kidding me? Asian pitches are flatter than pitches outside of Asia, generally speaking, and this was even truer back in the 80s and 90s. Viv played his brutal knocks on pitches where there was plenty of support for the bowlers and he did that while wearing a cap, not a helmet.

Everyone wore a cap those days, don't make Viv seem any different. Gavaskar scored 10,000 runs wearing the same cap at a better average.

What should Sachin do about being in an era of protective gear? Go out to bat in his jocks?
 
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Everyone wore a cap those days, don't make Viv seem any different. Gavaskar scored 10,000 runs wearing the same cap at a better average.

What should Sachin do about being in an era of protective gear? Go out to bat in his jocks?

Don't you use the argument of there being no Wasims, McGraths, Waqars, Muralis, etc in this era to put down the achievements of AB, Amla, Sanga, etc?

Regardless, the cap wasn't my main point. Please tell me why being head and shoulders above everyone in his era and taking batting into a different dimension should not put Viv on a higher pedestal than Sachin?
 
Are you kidding me? Asian pitches are flatter than pitches outside of Asia, generally speaking, and this was even truer back in the 80s and 90s. Viv played his brutal knocks on pitches where there was plenty of support for the bowlers and he did that while wearing a cap, not a helmet.

Viv never faced his bowlers, Viv's fast bowlers were the best of his time. Also if I am right; Viv didnt do all that crash hot against Dennis Lillee the one true class bowler he faced............... Viv Destroyed the Indian trundlers, English Trundles etc.........
 
Viv never faced his bowlers, Viv's fast bowlers were the best of his time. Also if I am right; Viv didnt do all that crash hot against Dennis Lillee the one true class bowler he faced............... Viv Destroyed the Indian trundlers, English Trundles etc.........

Viv faced Imran who at his peak averaged something silly like 17 runs per wicket over a 4 year period. He was an ATG bowler. Viv faced Hadlee who was unquestionably an all time great bowler. Its true that Viv did not dominate Lillee but he did fairly well there.

So that's three ATG quick bowlers that he did face who were all in their primes. Sehwag was excellent but the only ATG he really had to deal with was McGrath and he did not fare too well there.
 
Its true that Viv did not dominate Lillee but he did fairly well there.
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Well considering how Pakistanis go on about VIV, you would expect him to be dominant, after all he did chew gum and wear a cap while not having to face his own bowlers whom were cream of the crop... I think Viv avged 33 against Australia in which Lillee played (test wise) ?
 
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