Saim Ayub vs Pakistan's big 3 (Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan)

[mominsaigol]

In recent years, Pakistan cricket has been dominated by the stellar performances of Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam, and Mohammad Rizwan, who have emerged as the backbone of the team in the One Day International (ODI) and T20 formats.

Babar Azam has been rightfully crowned as the "King of Pakistan Cricket," while Mohammad Rizwan has cemented his legacy as the nation's finest wicketkeeper-batsman. Fakhar Zaman, meanwhile, has earned a reputation as Pakistan's "crisis man," stepping up in challenging situations to deliver match-winning performances.

For a long time, no player seemed capable of matching or succeeding this "Big Three" of Pakistan cricket. However, the emergence of Saim Ayub offers a glimmer of hope.

Saim had a challenging start to his international career, marked by average performances in Test cricket and a disappointing initial run in T20Is, where his first 25 matches yielded underwhelming results. However, the young batsman has experienced a remarkable transformation in his ODI career. In just seven ODI matches, Saim has amassed an impressive batting average of 64 with a strike rate of 104, including two centuries and a half-century. Notably, one of his centuries came off just 53 deliveries, showcasing a staggering strike rate of nearly 200.

This resurgence has sparked comparisons with Pakistan's established stars. How does Saim Ayub's potential stack up against the Big Three of Pakistan cricket?

 

[mango_bite77]

Let him play, no need to drag him to pointless comparisons.

Yesterday's innings proved that he can actually play sensible knock and has amazing game awareness.

 

[mominsaigol]

If you want my opinion he's already wayyyy ahead of rizwan no question.

Main comparison is Saim vs Fakhar and Saim vs Babar atm.

Imo, Babar and fakhar are still ahead in their primes, but saim is catching up

 

[mominsaigol]

Let him play, no need to drag him to pointless comparisons.

Yesterday's innings proved that he can actually play sensible knock and has amazing game awareness.

Its not a pointless comparison when

A) He's literally fakhar's long term replacement.

B) He's been hailed as pakiatan's best talent something babar was hailed as a decade ago.

C) He's literally vc and gets made captain anytime rizzu is injured or away from the lineup he's captaining?( In domestics for markhors)

He draws parallels with each of em.

 

[mango_bite77]

If you want my opinion he's already wayyyy ahead of rizwan no question.

Main comparison is Saim vs Fakhar and Saim vs Babar atm.

Imo, Babar and fakhar are still ahead in their primes, but saim is catching up

I don't know why we are comparing Saim with Rizwan. Both play at different number and both have different role. Saim is an opener who is supposed to see of the new ball and give a solid start.

On the other hand Rizwan's basic job is to have a clean keeping, capitalise middle overs, negate spinner to keep the scoreboard ticking till 40-45 overs.

Saim should be compared with the likes of Fakhar, Imam, Abdullah who are his main competitors at his position.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't know why we are comparing Saim with Rizwan. Both play at different number and both have different role. Saim is an opener who is supposed to see of the new ball and give a solid start.

On the other hand Rizwan's basic job is to have a clean keeping, capitalise middle overs, negate spinner to keep the scoreboard ticking till 40-45 overs.

Saim should be compared with the likes of Fakhar, Imam, Abdullah who are his main competitors at his position.

Rizwan is a t20 opener and directly his competiton? Either rizwan and saim open or rizzu + Babar open with saim at 3?

 

[mango_bite77]

Rizwan is a t20 opener and directly his competiton? Either rizwan and saim open or rizzu + Babar open with saim at 3?

In T20 yes, Ideally we should open with Fakhar and Saim. But knowing Rizwanis captain and there is no other number he can be best used, so Fakhar has to bat at 4 unfortunately

 

[Bhaijaan]

Talent wise Babar Azam is the greatest Pakistani talent since Yousuf Youhana.

Style wise Saim Ayub is the classiest batter in Pakistan since Yousuf Youhana

 

[hafizexpress]

Let him play, no need to drag him to pointless comparisons.

Yesterday's innings proved that he can actually play sensible knock and has amazing game awareness.

I agree. It's high time we stop jumping to comparisons. Let Saim be Saim. We've constantly done this from Amir to Umar Akmal to Ahmed Shehzad to Sohaib Maqsood to Hassan Ali and you name it.

This is just my opinion though and I respect OP's as well.. dont mean this in a disrespectful way. But I'm personally not a fan of comparing players unless they're well established already.

 

[mominsaigol]

I agree. It's high time we stop jumping to comparisons. Let Saim be Saim. We've constantly done this from Amir to Umar Akmal to Ahmed Shehzad to Sohaib Maqsood to Hassan Ali and you name it.

This is just my opinion though and I respect OP's as well.. dont mean this in a disrespectful way. But I'm personally not a fan of comparing players unless they're well established already.

Bro, we aren't claiming that saim should be the next fakhar.

Its a vs thread and obviously as saim plays more and more games the data will increase?

 

[mominsaigol]

Talent wise Babar Azam is the greatest Pakistani talent since Yousuf Youhana.

Style wise Saim Ayub is the classiest batter in Pakistan since Yousuf Youhana

Yousaf wasn't the greatest by any means talent wise?

Just because he was a solid orthodox batsmen doesn't mean he's the greatest talent?

Solid player no doubt but saeed Anwar was more talented then yousaf. Saeed's natural reactions and timing and wrist work was > Yousaf?

Yousaf was better against pace though yes and that backlift movement made him a natural against spin since his wristwork was just okay

 

[mominsaigol]

In T20 yes, Ideally we should open with Fakhar and Saim. But knowing Rizwanis captain and there is no other number he can be best used, so Fakhar has to bat at 4 unfortunately

Saim, Babar and Rizzu directly compete with one another in t20.

In odi saim and fakhar compete with one another.

Beyond this, Babar and saim draw parallels in terms of talent when they arrived.

 

[hafizexpress]

Bro, we aren't claiming that saim should be the next fakhar.

Its a vs thread and obviously as saim plays more and more games the data will increase?

It's just when you ask things like how so and so potential stack up against so and so, I feel it puts unnecessary pressure on the player. And more times than not we've seen Pakistani players succumb to this pressure and not get anywhere near it. Yes, it's not like Saim is going to read your post, but this tendency of comparisons is in the general fan public which obviously reaches the players. Your post is actually quite moderate which is why I still see where you're coming from. The average casual will go "he's the next Babar" "he's the next Fakhar"

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yousaf wasn't the greatest by any means talent wise?

Just because he was a solid orthodox batsmen doesn't mean he's the greatest talent?

Solid player no doubt but saeed Anwar was more talented then yousaf. Saeed's natural reactions and timing and wrist work was > Yousaf?

Yousaf was better against pace though yes and that backlift movement made him a natural against spin since his wristwork was just okay

Yousuf Youhana bhai was the combination of talent, hard work and class.

 

[pratiktc]

What Big three is this?

Fakhar is a Pak ODI great with multiple goated knocks - CT Final, 190 vs Saa, WC century vs NZ

Babar had a 5 year insane ODI output run at 60+ avg and a great 2019 WC.

What did Rizwan do in ODI cricket to be bracketed with these 2?

 

[mominsaigol]

It's just when you ask things like how so and so potential stack up against so and so, I feel it puts unnecessary pressure on the player. And more times than not we've seen Pakistani players succumb to this pressure and not get anywhere near it. Yes, it's not like Saim is going to read your post, but this tendency of comparisons is in the general fan public which obviously reaches the players. Your post is actually quite moderate which is why I still see where you're coming from. The average casual will go "he's the next Babar" "he's the next Fakhar"

The point of this post isn't to mock saim, nor is it to mock fakhar, Babar or rizzu.

Fakhar is the VVS laxman of Odi cricket when it comes to pakistan aka an inconsistent mess but out of the blue will play a crises man innings such as his 193 or his 127 of 73 against NZ or his century in ct final and will win it.

Babar azam before his slump avg 60 with 89 sr and 19 odi centuries. Whether inflated or not, you have to be a good player to score 3 back to back hundreds 2x and reach that amount. It's not like all of them were minnows, he has hundreds againat full strength eng, Aus, sa and nz as well.

Currently yes bobby is a has been. His avg is consistently dropping in each format. He'll probs touch 55 in odi after this series as in t20 he's already at 39 falling from 49 in the last year.

Rizwan I dislike, however at the end of the day, stats wise he's still pak's best keeper bat and in domestics saim is always his vc so saim does draw a future captaincy parallel with him, followed by the fact that in t20 these 2 directly compete.

These 3 have been pakistan's main focus and since then neither Imam, Abdullah, Kamran or anyone has compared.

Only saud shakeel is >>> them in test cricket only.

Saim ayub is the first player who can directly match them which is why this thread exists.

Also this thread makes more sense then saim vs Jaiswal vs Brooks vs rachin. Jaiswal and Brooks will have more succeaful careers. Rachin vs saim is debatable but rachin is ahead atm.

 

[mominsaigol]

What Big three is this?

Fakhar is a Pak ODI great with multiple goated knocks - CT Final, 190 vs Saa, WC century vs NZ

Babar had a 5 year insane ODI output run at 60+ avg and a great 2019 WC.

What did Rizwan do in ODI cricket to be bracketed with these 2?

Rizwan is captain .

 

[emranabbas]

Rizwan and Babar are nowhere near the standards of saim ayub.



dare i say this, saim is ahead of fakhar too

Fakhar is a hit and miss player but on his day he's a beast, but saim is a complete batsmen and has been consistent so far.

 

[shah9425]

Delusion in this thread

Guy just started his career and now we are starting to compare with all time greats

Let him mature and play more

 

[BouncerGuy]

Guy just started his career and now we are starting to compare with all time greats

Let him mature and play more

Exactly. No need to do such comparisons when the boy has only played few games.

Let him be himself and play for some time.

 

[shah9425]

Exactly. No need to do such comparisons when the boy has only played few games.

Let him be himself and play for some time.

Exactly if you compare him with Babar and Rizwan

Sorry he is still long way to catch up with them

We will see this thread in upcoming years

 

[Kianig89]

Saim is in introduction stage of his career, Babar at maturity ,while Fakhar & Riz on decline. So not a right Comparison

It's should be with JFM & Jaiswal

 

[pratiktc]

Saim and Fakhar opening
Babar Salman Kamran in middle
Pace trio and Abrar

Pak is building a challenger team for CT

Need Haris and Babar to step up. Or one of younger pacers like Abbas Afridi

 

[mominsaigol]

Delusion in this thread

Guy just started his career and now we are starting to compare with all time greats

Let him mature and play more

All time greats? Neither babar or rizwan or fakhar are all time greats.

Fakhar has played atg innings however to be an all time great he would have to be 100x more consistent + at the very least be good in test cricket.

 

[mominsaigol]

Exactly. No need to do such comparisons when the boy has only played few games.

Let him be himself and play for some time.

Why no need to do such comparisons?

Let him be himself and play for some time.

Am i stopping him? I make a peaceful comparispn thread and then their issues,

This is just a fun thread magar already the knives are out?

Saim is in his infancy but why can't we compare his start to Babar, Fakhar, and Rizwan's start?

By the end of 2027 he'll have played atleast 40 to 70 odi games depending on volume, but I think he'll hit the 50 mark?

Even then you'll be saying he's in infancy and we can't compare him to Retired players?

 

[emranabbas]

Delusion in this thread

Guy just started his career and now we are starting to compare with all time greats

Let him mature and play more

Babar and rizwan arnt all time greats

Saim has already done more than rizwan and babar done their whole career.

 

[zaidihusain]

All time greats? Neither babar or rizwan or fakhar are all time greats.

Fakhar has played atg innings however to be an all time great he would have to be 100x more consistent + at the very least be good in test cricket.

Agree, both Fakhar & Babar have been inconsistent. Fakhar has won few big matches no doubt but Babar on other hand has always succumbed in big matches. Rizwan still has to prove his worth as ODI player, I reckon he can open in ODIs with Saim or he can play at no. 7 but he has no business at no. 4.

Babar really has to raise his game now to justify his position in all formats

 

[mominsaigol]

Here is my Criteria for all time greats and let's evaluate it for fakhar, Babar, Saim and Rizwan.

A) First decide what the player is? Are they a red ball specilist? Odi specialist? T20 specialist? Whiteball(odi + t20) specialist? Red ball + Odi specialist?

The criteria for each are different but I will list the criteria.

A) Red Ball Specialist: Finish your career with a 50+ avg and have good performances in other countries. Ideally finish off with 30+ test centuries and include some notable and iconic innings. Ex: Lara one wicket win against pakistan with his iconic 153.

B) Odi specialist: Finish your career with good performances as avg doesnt really matter in this format anymore. However cemturies in icc events, knockout stages and tough A series in odi should be the no 1 metric. Ideally atleast 15 to 20 centuries against Tough teams, not minnows.

C) T20 specialist: High sr is key on this format, a 25 to 30 avg batter with a 150+ sr will do wonders in this format, + ideally atleast 1 t20 century.

D) Whiteball specialist: Combine criteria B and C.

E) Redball + odi: Combine A and B

F) Allformat: finish a career with a 40+ test avg, 40+ odi avg against Tough teams × icc events performances + Monster sr in t20 with some notable performances

Now for Saim

Atm hes in his infancy, however he seems to want to fulfil the allformat criteria.

In which he case he needs to end his career with a 40+ avg in test and odi with atleast 20 to 25 test centuries, followed by 15 to 25 odi centuries with some centuries being against Tough opposition which so far he has 2 of em against aus and sa which included cummins, rabada, starc, hazlewood, Shamsi etc. And in t20 needs to bring that sr up.

So far he's on the right track.

Fakhar

Fakhar fulfils whoteball specialist, in odi hes alright with a 45 avg, 91 sr and 11 centuries but in t20 he's underachived. His inconsistency in odi prevents from reaching atg tier.

Babar

Babar fulfils the allformat category, So far his stats are good but right now hes in danger of falling off, since his test career avg might fall below 40, furthermore only 9 test centuries and poor overseas performance doesnt have him fulfil this criteria.

in odi hes on the right track but he is falling, and in t20 he needs to bring that sr up. Atm.not atg category.

Rizwan

Dude literally has zero overseas centuries in test, is about to drop off from a 40 avg in odi, it's falling to 39 and in t20 has a god awful sr. He ain't anywhere close to atg material.

 

[mominsaigol]

Agree, both Fakhar & Babar have been inconsistent. Fakhar has won few big matches no doubt but Babar on other hand has always succumbed in big matches. Rizwan still has to prove his worth as ODI player, I reckon he can open in ODIs with Saim or he can play at no. 7 but he has no business at no. 4.

Babar really has to raise his game now to justify his position in all formats

To be an all format great aka test + odi and t20 like Warner, Kp, Gayle

You need to finish your career with a 40 + test avg and 40+ odi avg and a monster strike rate in t20.

Followed by notable icc event performances as Bi laterals don't matter in odi anymore followed by good overseas test performances.

It's unfair to demand a 50+ test avg in test for an all format atg since even kohli Warner etc have to divide their time between formats, hence even they don't avg 50×.

However a criteria needs to be meet.

Babar and rizwam are in danger of falling out of a 40+ avg in tests and rizzu in odi. Furthermore they have a horrible sr in t20 and zero notable overseas test performances.

In terms of icc they've failed multiple tournaments and only have 3 good performances, one in 2019 vs nz, one vs sri lanka in 2023 and one against India in 2021.

Compare that to QDK who literally smacked 4 daddy 100's in a single icc evsnt.

They have a long long way to go before meeting the all format atg criteria.

 

[zaidihusain]

To be an all format great aka test + odi and t20 like Warner, Kp, Gayle

You need to finish your career with a 40 + test avg and 40+ odi avg and a monster strike rate in t20.

Followed by notable icc event performances as Bi laterals don't matter in odi anymore followed by good overseas test performances.

It's unfair to demand a 50+ test avg in test for an all format atg since even kohli Warner etc have to divide their time between formats, hence even they don't avg 50×.

However a criteria needs to be meet.

Babar and rizwam are in danger of falling out of a 40+ avg in tests and rizzu in odi. Furthermore they have a horrible sr in t20 and zero notable overseas test performances.

In terms of icc they've failed multiple tournaments and only have 3 good performances, one in 2019 vs nz, one vs sri lanka in 2023 and one against India in 2021.

Compare that to QDK who literally smacked 4 daddy 100's in a single icc evsnt.

They have a long long way to go before meeting the all format atg criteria.

Nowadays, batting average doesn't matter specially in T20s & ODIs. Travis Head's average is 44 in ODIs in comparison to Babar's 56 but Head's one inning in WC final is greater than Babar's entire career. These days match winning performance in ICC tournaments and big test series against teams like SENA is considered as career building achievements

 

[mominsaigol]

Nowadays, batting average doesn't matter specially in T20s & ODIs. Travis Head's average is 44 in ODIs in comparison to Babar's 56 but Head's one inning in WC final is greater than Babar's entire career. These days match winning performance in ICC tournaments and big test series against teams like SENA is considered as career building achievements

Read what I said brother

You need to finish your career with a 40 + test avg and 40+ odi avg and a monster strike rate in t20.

Followed by notable icc event performances as Bi laterals don't matter in odi anymore followed by good overseas test performances.

And then i said

In terms of icc they've failed multiple tournaments and only have 3 good performances, one in 2019 vs nz, one vs sri lanka in 2023 and one against India in 2021.

Compare that to QDK who literally smacked 4 daddy 100's in a single icc event.

and ttheni said

They have a long long way to go before meeting the all format atg criteria.

Babar and rizwan only fulfil avg criteria in odi and test fir all format players. They do not fulfil.

A) monster t20 sr

B) Notable icc event performances

C) Good overseas test performances.

 

[zaidihusain]

Read what I said brother

You need to finish your career with a 40 + test avg and 40+ odi avg and a monster strike rate in t20.

Followed by notable icc event performances as Bi laterals don't matter in odi anymore followed by good overseas test performances.

And then i said

In terms of icc they've failed multiple tournaments and only have 3 good performances, one in 2019 vs nz, one vs sri lanka in 2023 and one against India in 2021.

Compare that to QDK who literally smacked 4 daddy 100's in a single icc event.

and ttheni said

They have a long long way to go before meeting the all format atg criteria.

Babar and rizwan only fulfil avg criteria in odi and test fir all format players. They do not fulfil.

A) monster t20 sr

B) Notable icc event performances

C) Good overseas test performances.

Babar's 101(127) against NZ in 2019 was almost in a dead rubber game. 2021 WC victory against India was combined effort of entire team and the target was modest. Yes, Rizwan's innings against Sri Lanka was really great and Babar's innings against Australia when Pakistan chased almost 350 at home was also great, those are there only noticeable innings.

They both have no business to play T20I anymore. These 2 players have literally hijacked their spots without valuable contribution

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar's 101(127) against NZ in 2019 was almost in a dead rubber game. 2021 WC victory against India was combined effort of entire team and the target was modest. Yes, Rizwan's innings against Sri Lanka was really great and Babar's innings against Australia when Pakistan chased almost 350 at home was also great, those are there only noticeable innings.

They both have no business to play T20I anymore. These 2 players have literally hijacked their spots without valuable contribution

The NZ game wasn't a dead rubber. India vs England decided our fate, not that game.

Furthermore it was overall a good innings. When it comes to t20 wc 2021, Obviously it's a team game however both rizzu and Babar negotiated bumrah extremely well and a 10 wicket win is appreciated none theless.

But yes otherwise I agree with you.

Rachin ravindra is 23/24 and he already achieved 3 iconic contributions in wc 2023 while Babar and rizwan in total have achieved 3 in all the events they've ever played.

These 2 have a long long long long long long long way to go to even be considered as candidates to be potential ATG's

 

[Rana]

Yousaf wasn't the greatest by any means talent wise?

Just because he was a solid orthodox batsmen doesn't mean he's the greatest talent?

Solid player no doubt but saeed Anwar was more talented then yousaf. Saeed's natural reactions and timing and wrist work was > Yousaf?

Yousaf was better against pace though yes and that backlift movement made him a natural against spin since his wristwork was just okay

Tbh Yousuf was a great ODI batsman for his era. I’ve seen on multiple occasions Yousuf drag Pakistan out of a hole and taking them to a commendable position.

Yousuf and Inzimam were great ODI players

 

[mominsaigol]

Tbh Yousuf was a great ODI batsman for his era. I’ve seen on multiple occasions Yousuf drag Pakistan out of a hole and taking them to a commendable position.

Yousuf and Inzimam were great ODI players

Yousaf is a GUN PLAYER. one of the best. I'm referring talent wise only.

Saeed is ahead.

However I've seen yousaf bat. Dude is the definition of finishing odi games and going not out.

In odi hes very similar to how Steve smith would bat in test, Aka mentally defeat the opposition by staying out their and giving them the feeling that he won the game by simply staying and scoring.

In tests he's pretty much on par with younis and miandad as test batters.

Brilliant cricketer, but talent wise he wasn't a natural when it came to reactions. It's his technique and ability to develop late cuts and backlift that allowed him to become one of Pakistan's greatest batsmen in the modern era.

In terms of talent, Pakistan produces better left handed batters then right handed. Haris sohail, Saeed Anwar, Fakhar zaman, Saim ayub are god gifted talents, But barring saeed they never had yousaf's career due to mismanagement or due to injury

 

[iPakistani]

Why does the comparison stop at Rizwan, surely we can compare him to the great Sarfraz Ahmed who opened in ODIs too a few times. Weird thread.

Saim's competition is Fakhar/Imam/Abdullah. In T20s everyone knows he's better than Babar and Rizwan.

 

[Rana]

Why does the comparison stop at Rizwan, surely we can compare him to the great Sarfraz Ahmed who opened in ODIs too a few times. Weird thread.

Saim's competition is Fakhar/Imam/Abdullah. In T20s everyone knows he's better than Babar and Rizwan.

Because Sarfaraz never misused his power to his own benefit

He was always about the team. Something covid 19 Pakistan fans will never understand.

 

[iPakistani]

Because Sarfaraz never misused his power to his own benefit

He was always about the team. Something covid 19 Pakistan fans will never understand.

Was he? When he showed up to the 2019 World Cup with a massive belly yawning whilst lying down on the field was this the correct use of power?

 

[Rana]

Was he? When he showed up to the 2019 World Cup with a massive belly yawning whilst lying down on the field was this the correct use of power?

Talk about his captaincy tactics.

Otherwise there are plenty of times we can bring up Rizwan’s cramps and lying on the floor whilst Pakistan is on course to lose games.

 

[mominsaigol]

Why does the comparison stop at Rizwan, surely we can compare him to the great Sarfraz Ahmed who opened in ODIs too a few times. Weird thread.

Saim's competition is Fakhar/Imam/Abdullah. In T20s everyone knows he's better than Babar and Rizwan.

Sarfi and saim never played in the same era?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think he's more gifted than all of them for various reasons.

Better ability against high pace than all of them but especially Rizwan.

Better technique than Fakhar at least.

And certainly a better and more natural player of spin than Babar .

Ability wise, he is up there and I suspect there's more that we haven't seen.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Fakhar is basically pure unabashed Intent, he doesn't care too much about technique, his batting philosophy looks quite similar to Sehwag in that he just tries to send the ball to boundary and has good reflexes and top notch bat swing.
Fakhar could have been a good test opener too in Asian conditions.

Rizwan is the least talented of the lot, his work ethic probably helped him in whatever good he has done, his feet moves a lot because of which he is able to play spinners better than the others. He has no offside game, focuses on strike rotation but these type of players usually have a good patch of 4-5 years after which they become completely useless. He is a top notch wicketkeeper though, probably best Pak wk since Latif.

According to me, Babar has the best technique of them all and is also gifted, he is not a t20 player though, has no power game and bat swing is also not optimal for t20s. He will still do well in ODIs once he recovers but will always be a run a ball cricketer at the very best. In test Cricket he will properly retire with an average around 42 which seems good enough.

Saim is a proper modern day batsman, dynamic batter who can shift gears unlike Babar, he will struggle against the moving ball but might find a way later on, will be an asset on asian pitches as well as the Bouncy ones, seaming tracks will be his biggest challenge.

 

[shamaan]

Skill wise Saim Ayub is above fakhar.
Fakhar is a power hitter.

 

[shah9425]

Babar and rizwan arnt all time greats

Saim has already done more than rizwan and babar done their whole career.

Get out of your delusion