Salman Butt vs Steve Smith - Both captains, both banned, one is leading the team again

[MenInG]

Would it be fair to say that Salman Butt's offence was worse than that of Steve Smith?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Yes. Butt went to jail for taking a bribe. That is a far more serious offence.

If Steve Smith is to be sent to jail for tampering the ball, well then a whole lot of cricketers from 90s need a back dated sentence.

 

[James]

Salman Butt’s offence was far more serious.

I still think that Steven Smith regaining the captaincy is a slightly contentious issue and it will spark some discussion in both Australia and England, but what Butt did was on another level entirely.

 

[Rana]

SENA cheats have always had more sympathy in comparison to sub continent cheats

Hansie Cronje is still revered and loved by a large proportion of cricket fans around the world and in South Africa also.

 

[Gilly]

Yes. Butt went to jail for taking a bribe. That is a far more serious offence.

If Steve Smith is to be sent to jail for tampering the ball, well then a whole lot of cricketers from 90s need a back dated sentence.

You dont need to go back to the 90's, Pakistan captain Afridi was banned for two matches in 2010 for ball tampering but continued to captain Pakistan until 2014.

Butt never played for Pakistan again but Afridi was allowed to captain again after being convicted of ball tampering.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

You dont need to go back to the 90's, Pakistan captain Afridi was banned for two matches in 2010 for ball tampering but continued to captain Pakistan until 2014.

Butt never played for Pakistan again but Afridi was allowed to captain again after being convicted of ball tampering.

Same for Waqar as well. He was the first person i believe to be sanctioned for ball tampering.
Faf as well. Both have been captains of their respective teams.

 

[Varun]

Smith cheated to win using cricketing tools.

Butt cheated to lose using criminal tools.

 

[volcyz]

Comparing apple to oranges

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Ball Tampering is done to get advantage to make your team win.
Bowling no balls is giving advantage to opposition. How can these two offences be compared ?

 

[Gilly]

Salman Butt’s offence was far more serious.

I still think that Steven Smith regaining the captaincy is a slightly contentious issue and it will spark some discussion in both Australia and England, but what Butt did was on another level entirely.

Atherton continued to captain England after being convicted of ball tampering so why would England have any interest in this.

Plenty of captains have been charged with ball tampering, some like Du Plessis have been charged twice.

 

[James]

Atherton continued to captain England after being convicted of ball tampering so why would England have any interest in this.

Plenty of captains have been charged with ball tampering, some like Du Plessis have been charged twice.

Every set of circumstances around a ball tampering incident is different.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Small difference - one captain took a bribe to underperform in the match. The other wanted to win it for his country by hook or crook. Rightfully, the former has been banned forever and the latter is leading his team again.

 

[ChTab]

Ball tampering & match fixing are different. Smith cheated so he could help his team whereas Butt sold his country for a few $$$. Salman Butt was rightfully banned from cricket. I wish Pakistan had more talent in 2015 so that Amir wasn't allowed a comeback either.

 

[MSaad1237]

Cannot to be compared to be honest. Butt cheated to lose, he didn't admit his offense till years...
Steve Smith did ball tampering to give his team an unfair advantage.

Had Salman Butt also done Ball Tampering, he would still be playing for Pakistan and captaining the side too, period..

 

[Vocare Ad Regnum]

They aren't comparable crimes.

Wasim, Waqar, Imran have also captained Pakistan even though they were also accused of ball tampering.

 

[Junaids]

Steve Smith's offence was far more serious than Salman Butt's.

Australia's ball tampering in the period from Wellington 2016 to Cape Town 2018 changed the course of multiple Test matches and damaged countless careers

Butt was convicted of having arranged for his own side to concede 3 no-balls which made no difference to the course of the match or series, and the only players whose careers were damaged were the fools who bowled the no balls.

Yes Butt went to prison. But that is because of what British laws were at the time. It's in no way a reflection of his offences being more serious, because the whole point of what he did was that it was a victimless crime.

Whereas there was nothing "victimless" about Australia's two years of ball tampering.

 

[Gilly]

Steve Smith's offence was far more serious than Salman Butt's.

Australia's ball tampering in the period from Wellington 2016 to Cape Town 2018 changed the course of multiple Test matches and damaged countless careers

Butt was convicted of having arranged for his own side to concede 3 no-balls which made no difference to the course of the match or series, and the only players whose careers were damaged were the fools who bowled the no balls.

Yes Butt went to prison. But that is because of what British laws were at the time. It's in no way a reflection of his offences being more serious, because the whole point of what he did was that it was a victimless crime.

Whereas there was nothing "victimless" about Australia's two years of ball tampering.

You can tell when Australia is doing well, Junaids will come up with something to try and malign them, god help us if Starc bowls well.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Steve Smiths punishment was excessive, mainly because the ACB wanted to protect the rest of the team and made a few people scapegoats.

He should never have been banned for so long nor should he have been blocked from captaincy.

He broke the rules in order to win.

Salman Butt is a shamless liar and has yet to hold his hands up and admit to his crimes. There is no comparison between the two.

 

[Napa]

Comparing apple to oranges

You can tell when Australia is doing well, Junaids will come up with something to try and malign them, god help us if Starc bowls well.

One cheated for personal financial gain at the cost of his country...

The other cheated to give his country an advantage...

 

[Rajdeep]

Banned for different offences though. Smith tried his best to win by using unfair means where as Butt decided to throw away the match for money. Huge difference.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

Ball tampering & match fixing are different. Smith cheated so he could help his team whereas Butt sold his country for a few $$$. Salman Butt was rightfully banned from cricket. I wish Pakistan had more talent in 2015 so that Amir wasn't allowed a comeback either.

C'mon yaar, he was a young lad, mislead by a captain who had his hand in the till and his senior bowler whom he looked up to who was another slippery reptile. He did his time and paid his dues - imho his sentence was a tad too extreme.
A civilized society that we are a part of, offers a second chance to an offender and he got one.

But yeah i agree tampering and throwing a match are apples and oranges.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

One was trying to win games. The other was trying to lose games.

Cheating to win is terrible. Cheating to lose is criminal.

Of course there is a huge difference.

 

[silentkiller187]

One was trying to win games. The other was trying to lose games.

Cheating to win is terrible. Cheating to lose is criminal.

Of course there is a huge difference.

exactly this, how can you make someone captain or even let them play for the team again after they purposely underperformed , same goes for amir he should never have made it back in. Cheating to win is different, and whilst still wrong, i wouldnt put it on par with fixing

 

[ChTab]

C'mon yaar, he was a young lad, mislead by a captain who had his hand in the till and his senior bowler whom he looked up to who was another slippery reptile.

He wasn't misled by anyone, he was just greedy back then & still is. His official age was 18 or 19 at that time & most likely he was at least 3-4 years older than his official age. He played victim card brilliantly back then but I'm 100 percent sure that he knew what he was doing & no one forced him to do all those things.

He did his time and paid his dues - imho his sentence was a tad too extreme.
A civilized society that we are a part of, offers a second chance to an offender and he got one.

His sentence wasn't extreme. He should have been banned from Int cricket for life.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

He wasn't misled by anyone, he was just greedy back then & still is. His official age was 18 or 19 at that time & most likely he was at least 3-4 years older than his official age. He played victim card brilliantly back then but I'm 100 percent sure that he knew what he was doing & no one forced him to do all those things.



His sentence wasn't extreme. He should have been banned from Int cricket for life.

donot know about the official age thing.
I remember thinking in 2010 about what a fantastic bowler he was, the swing he got, the pace with which he bowled.
Combined that with Asif who was a magician who i thought was the next mcGrath.
I seriously thought pak had an opening combo that would be like 2 w's.
what a waste of talent

 

[A.A.Z]

Steve Smith's offence was far more serious than Salman Butt's.

Australia's ball tampering in the period from Wellington 2016 to Cape Town 2018 changed the course of multiple Test matches and damaged countless careers

Butt was convicted of having arranged for his own side to concede 3 no-balls which made no difference to the course of the match or series, and the only players whose careers were damaged were the fools who bowled the no balls.

Yes Butt went to prison. But that is because of what British laws were at the time. It's in no way a reflection of his offences being more serious, because the whole point of what he did was that it was a victimless crime.

Whereas there was nothing "victimless" about Australia's two years of ball tampering.

Exactly! Butt wasn't trying to lose the match. Plenty of bowlers have delivered deliberate no balls and extras without anyone caring.

Shoaib Akhter admitted to bowling a no ball beamer at Dhoni. Many others have done the same.

A Sri Lankan player Randiv bowled a no ball so there weren't enough for Sehwag to make a century and he remained on 99. The player was given a small fine and one match ban.

There are countless games where players bowl deliberate no balls and wides at the end of the game so the other team doesn't have the satisfaction of scoring the winning run.

 

[Major]

One spot fixed for money, and the other did what Shahid Afridi did without even trying to be discrete.

I think better comparison would be Afridi and Smith. One only got ban for few matches was still alllowed to be captain and celebrated while the later was banned removed from captaincy

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Afridi gets points for how entertaining his cheating attempts were.

His pitch dance and ball biting were freakin hilarious and still are.

 

[MSaad1237]

Exactly! Butt wasn't trying to lose the match. Plenty of bowlers have delivered deliberate no balls and extras without anyone caring.

Shoaib Akhter admitted to bowling a no ball beamer at Dhoni. Many others have done the same.

A Sri Lankan player Randiv bowled a no ball so there weren't enough for Sehwag to make a century and he remained on 99. The player was given a small fine and one match ban.

There are countless games where players bowl deliberate no balls and wides at the end of the game so the other team doesn't have the satisfaction of scoring the winning run.

Its not about bowling just the no balls, its about taking money to ball no balls at the cost of integrity of your country and the team...

It sets horrible precedence for integrity, who knows with this culture, he might be fixing whole matches in the years to come, for money offcourse...

 

[mastimasti]

Both are cheats, the jail sentences around Butt, Asif and Amir were extreme to say the least, considering they were indicted on defrauding a bookie...a bookie which did not exist considering it was a sting carried out by a newspaper. That is also known as entrapment, it should always have been kept as a cricketing offense.

I fully agree with the cricket sentence of Asif and Butt never being allowed back in the Pak side and I have always felt Smith and Warner AT LEAST should never have been allowed back either.

 

[Junaids]

One was trying to win games. The other was trying to lose games.

Cheating to win is terrible. Cheating to lose is criminal.

Of course there is a huge difference.

That’s not a reasonable argument.

Steve Smith is the equivalent of the cyclist Lance Armstrong or the sprinter Ben Johnson.

Both used anabolic steroids to win by cheating, which created a situation in which Clean athletes could not win without also cheating.

You can’t say “that’s ok, they cheated to win”. They destroyed the careers of honest sportsmen.

The American sprinter Florence Griffith Joyner was the worst drug cheat of all. She used extravagant make-up and multicoloured fingernails to distract from the masculinisation of her body due to steroid abuse. Thirty three years on, no one can get close to her 200 m world record. But the steroids killed “the fastest woman ever” before she could even reach the age of 40.

People like Steve Smith who cheat to win do far more harm to the sport than morons like Asif, Amir and Butt. Because people like Smith ensure that unless you cheat too, they will beat you.

 

[Major]

Both are cheats, the jail sentences around Butt, Asif and Amir were extreme to say the least, considering they were indicted on defrauding a bookie...a bookie which did not exist considering it was a sting carried out by a newspaper. That is also known as entrapment, it should always have been kept as a cricketing offense.

I fully agree with the cricket sentence of Asif and Butt never being allowed back in the Pak side and I have always felt Smith and Warner AT LEAST should never have been allowed back either.

Mazhar Majeed was the bookie........

And If Smith and warner were not to be allowwed back, than why was Afridi allowed back?

 

[Major]

That’s not a reasonable argument.

Steve Smith is the equivalent of the cyclist Lance Armstrong or the sprinter Ben Johnson.

Both used anabolic steroids to win by cheating, which created a situation in which Clean athletes could not win without also cheating.

You can’t say “that’s ok, they cheated to win”. They destroyed the careers of honest sportsmen.

The American sprinter Florence Griffith Joyner was the worst drug cheat of all. She used extravagant make-up and multicoloured fingernails to distract from the masculinisation of her body due to steroid abuse. Thirty three years on, no one can get close to her 200 m world record. But the steroids killed “the fastest woman ever” before she could even reach the age of 40.

People like Steve Smith who cheat to win do far more harm to the sport than morons like Asif, Amir and Butt. Because people like Smith ensure that unless you cheat too, they will beat you.

nope.

There is a difference between a drug cheat and someone getting advantage by roughing up the ball.

If we start banning players who tend to mess with the conditions than Umar Gul, Shahid Afridi, Faf Du Plesis and a whole bunch of Pakistani playerrs would had been banned today.

Our past paksitani cricketers themselves have said they used bottle caps. Umar Gul himself said in an interview that he would on purpose throw the ball in such a way that it bounced while it went to other person so that the ball condition could be messed up.
Faf used his zipper

Afridi..... Well he danced on the pitch and was caught red handed by Kevin Peiterson. Than he chewed on a cricket ball right infront of everybody and even denied doing it.

 

[Major]

Steve Smith's offence was far more serious than Salman Butt's.

Australia's ball tampering in the period from Wellington 2016 to Cape Town 2018 changed the course of multiple Test matches and damaged countless careers

Butt was convicted of having arranged for his own side to concede 3 no-balls which made no difference to the course of the match or series, and the only players whose careers were damaged were the fools who bowled the no balls.

Yes Butt went to prison. But that is because of what British laws were at the time. It's in no way a reflection of his offences being more serious, because the whole point of what he did was that it was a victimless crime.

Whereas there was nothing "victimless" about Australia's two years of ball tampering.

UK has laws for corruption, they dont have laws for cheating or getting an unfair advantage in sports.

I think that is enough to say which is more worst. You can deny it all you want but the law being in place is a reflection of how serious which offence is.

Please get a bill passed for messing with a cricket ball.... Everyone would be laughing at it as its non serious

 

[The_KING]

Would it be fair to say that Salman Butt's offence was worse than that of Steve Smith?

Salman took money to spot fix, which harmed his team. He stabbed his team in the back.

What Steve Smith did was wrong, but he did it to help his team. He was trying to gain an unfair advantage for his team.

I still can’t understand how people can think that ball tampering is even comparable to match or spot fixing. It isn’t!

 

[Mirpur express]

Steve Smith's offence was far more serious than Salman Butt's.

Australia's ball tampering in the period from Wellington 2016 to Cape Town 2018 changed the course of multiple Test matches and damaged countless careers

Butt was convicted of having arranged for his own side to concede 3 no-balls which made no difference to the course of the match or series, and the only players whose careers were damaged were the fools who bowled the no balls.

Yes Butt went to prison. But that is because of what British laws were at the time. It's in no way a reflection of his offences being more serious, because the whole point of what he did was that it was a victimless crime.

Whereas there was nothing "victimless" about Australia's two years of ball tampering.

Victimless crimes!!!! *Lmao @ your argument, Butt is a convict who spent time in jail, no matter how you & others try to compare & justify your points it will always be the case , both were guilty , one got away lightly because his cricket board took control of the situation the other was left to rot & righty so

 

[MesonK]

Butts offense of fixing was far bigger crime than Smith pulling out some legacy trickery to dominate the session in a test match.

 

[Technics 1210]

Butt was done for corruption, Smith for cheating.

However if Australia pretends to be the beacon of fairness and sportsmanship then making Smith captain is setting the wrong precedence.

Then again who can forget the infamous 500-1 bet in 81 Ashes where Marsh and Lillie placed a bet on England to win. England won, Marsh and Lillie cashed in, the Headingly Test was subbed the miracle test, and Ladbrokes never offered 500 to 1 odds ever again. Blatant fix if there ever was one.

 

[Jazx]

SENA cheats have always had more sympathy in comparison to sub continent cheats

Hansie Cronje is still revered and loved by a large proportion of cricket fans around the world and in South Africa also.

Its because he himself admitted his sins and showed some guilt for it.

 

[Ab Fan]

Salman Butt's offence was more serious.

Smith deserved punishment for using an outside substance on cricket ground and trying to do blatant cheating on the field. However, after the punishment is done, it is time to move on from that and let him play the game with the same freedom and rules as applicable to other cricketers.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

That’s not a reasonable argument.

Steve Smith is the equivalent of the cyclist Lance Armstrong or the sprinter Ben Johnson.

Both used anabolic steroids to win by cheating, which created a situation in which Clean athletes could not win without also cheating.

You can’t say “that’s ok, they cheated to win”. They destroyed the careers of honest sportsmen.

The American sprinter Florence Griffith Joyner was the worst drug cheat of all. She used extravagant make-up and multicoloured fingernails to distract from the masculinisation of her body due to steroid abuse. Thirty three years on, no one can get close to her 200 m world record. But the steroids killed “the fastest woman ever” before she could even reach the age of 40.

People like Steve Smith who cheat to win do far more harm to the sport than morons like Asif, Amir and Butt. Because people like Smith ensure that unless you cheat too, they will beat you.

I have to disagree [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION].

Let's take extreme examples. One extreme set is a bunch of cricketers fixing matches while in team A. The other set is a bunch of cricketers cheating to win for team B. In both cases, team B wins and team A loses.

Team A doesn't stand a chance. Both bunch of cricketers will destroy careers.

However, much as I hate both, team B players provide much better sporting spectacle by playing to win, so I will take them over those going through dodgy motions and selling their country in the process.

On a side note, I don't think Asif and Amir were doing that but that's a separate debate.

 

[pakistani pride]

What Salman Butt did is on a whole different level. Smith offence cant be compared. Its not even 1% to what Butt did.

 

[reversehook]

both cheated ....

one cheated his teammates and country to undermine his side...

other cheated so that his team wins...

both are cheats, but if i had to ultimately be forced to take on one of the cheats, than atleast i know one cheat will be cheating to win not lose...

 

[Technics 1210]

Is there any video evidence of Smith using sandpaper or instructing players to use sandpaper? No.

Is there any video evidence of Butt setting up a spot fix? Yes.

The real question is not Butt vs Smith, but how the Australian bowling unit were oblivious to the condition of the ball during sandpaper gate. This IMO is the real crime.

 

[Junaids]

Two things which are not being appreciated in this thread.

Salman Butt was never even accused of matchfixing. The word "fix" is confusing the issue. He arranged for 3 no-balls to be bowled in a Test match as a signal to a bookie that he could control certain players in his team (although even that wasn't a real fix, it was newspaper entrapment with a fake fix, not that he knew that).

Steve Smith has never been placed on even a cricketing trial for all his offences. He was caught by SuperSport TV because the former South African fast bowler Fanie De Villiers detected impossibly early reverse swing two Tests earlier at Durban, and it took SuperSport cameramen 2 matches to catch Cameron Bancroft in the act of sandpapering the ball.

But Smith has never even been investigated for the earlier ball tampering, let alone found not guilty of it.

Cricket Australia had every reason to fear that if the length of time that the team sandpapered the opposition to defeat became public it would have lost the ability to select all the parties who handled those balls - which means not just Smith and Warner but also Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc and Lyon who bowled those balls and Tim Paine who caught them.

That would have meant a period of endless defeats for Australia, who would suddenly have been weaker than Bangladesh or the West Indies. The commercial destruction would have been awful.

So Cricket Australia limited the Terms of Reference of its investigation to the Cape Town Test, and accepted the players' carefully coordinated responses that it was a one-off event that day.

This means two things. Under the concept of "innocent until proven guilty", neither Smith nor anyone else has been convicted of the earlier ball-tampering which led Fanie De Villiers to get the cameramen to try to identify the culprits.

But equally, Steve Smith has never been charged of presiding over ball-tampering from Wellington 2016 (when the weirdly improbable reverse swing first became apparent) to Port Elizabeth 2018. But he has never bee found innocent of those multiple other potential offences either, because they have never been investigated.

It's a weird situation in which Smith has regained the captaincy on the basis that he was a one-time offender even though everybody knows that the team were doing it for two years.

 

[Gilly]

Two things which are not being appreciated in this thread.

Salman Butt was never even accused of matchfixing. The word "fix" is confusing the issue. He arranged for 3 no-balls to be bowled in a Test match as a signal to a bookie that he could control certain players in his team (although even that wasn't a real fix, it was newspaper entrapment with a fake fix, not that he knew that).

Steve Smith has never been placed on even a cricketing trial for all his offences. He was caught by SuperSport TV because the former South African fast bowler Fanie De Villiers detected impossibly early reverse swing two Tests earlier at Durban, and it took SuperSport cameramen 2 matches to catch Cameron Bancroft in the act of sandpapering the ball.

But Smith has never even been investigated for the earlier ball tampering, let alone found not guilty of it.

Cricket Australia had every reason to fear that if the length of time that the team sandpapered the opposition to defeat became public it would have lost the ability to select all the parties who handled those balls - which means not just Smith and Warner but also Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc and Lyon who bowled those balls and Tim Paine who caught them.

That would have meant a period of endless defeats for Australia, who would suddenly have been weaker than Bangladesh or the West Indies. The commercial destruction would have been awful.

So Cricket Australia limited the Terms of Reference of its investigation to the Cape Town Test, and accepted the players' carefully coordinated responses that it was a one-off event that day.

This means two things. Under the concept of "innocent until proven guilty", neither Smith nor anyone else has been convicted of the earlier ball-tampering which led Fanie De Villiers to get the cameramen to try to identify the culprits.

But equally, Steve Smith has never been charged of presiding over ball-tampering from Wellington 2016 (when the weirdly improbable reverse swing first became apparent) to Port Elizabeth 2018. But he has never bee found innocent of those multiple other potential offences either, because they have never been investigated.

It's a weird situation in which Smith has regained the captaincy on the basis that he was a one-time offender even though everybody knows that the team were doing it for two years.

You really need to get over it junaids

 

[Junaids]

You really need to get over it junaids.

I would say I am consistent.

I don't recognise Pakistan's successes in the period 1993-1997 because they were clearly built on ball tampering (as were some others when Imran didn't play in the period 1990-92).

I also posted a photo of Umesh Yadav's talon-like thumbnail on this forum three years ago, for the same reasons.

You just need to look at the ludicrous bowling exploits of Mitchell Starc and even sometimes Mitchell Marsh in the period of 2016-2018 to understand that you need to understand the context.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Smith did nothing criminal, he broke the spirit of the game that's it. No bribe, no outside influence, no underperformance, it was win at any cost mindset. Unethical but not criminal. Chuckers make a comeback with new remodelled bowling action all the time.

 

[mastimasti]

Mazhar Majeed was the bookie........

And If Smith and warner were not to be allowwed back, than why was Afridi allowed back?

Yes, I know, my point is that Majeed was accepting money from an undercover journalist, money that did not lead to any actual book making. The actions carried out on the field were simply to highlight Majeed's influence on the players, there was no actual financial rip off taking place. Majeed himself faced charges of conspiracy, which can understand but there are also regulations around entrapment, which is what the News of the World was doing. They had a history of it and were sued by other complainants and the newspaper eventually shut down after numerous cases of inappropriate behaviour.

Now, should Majeed be jailed? That's a different question to the player's being jailed.

Amir, Asif and Butt faced different charges to Majeed, there is an argument for those charges not necessarily carrying jail terms, particularly in a foreign country. That's my contention.

The cricketing bans were justifiable.

 

[sweep_shot]

If someone has served his time, I don't see why can't a person be a leader again (provided he is qualified for it).

 

[jnaveen1980]

It is more an ethical issue. Unsportsmanlike behavior. If he is eligible for playing then he is eligible for captaining. For ethical reasons he didn't get back the captaincy. Even now he is only a stand-in captain in the absence of Cummins.

 

[jnaveen1980]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...e-Steve-Smith-Australia-captain-hes-time.html

BUMBLE ON THE TEST: Steve Smith has done his time and I see no issue with him being Australia captain again...

 

[Bewal Express]

One was cheating to get his team winning, the other was cheating his country to lose.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Steve Smith ban and captaincy removal was an over-correction from CA. At best he should've served a 2-3 test suspension and ICC themselves deemed that was enough, but CA had to cater to the fans around the world.

Good to see him back captaining.

Also equating the two scenarios is laughable at best.

 

[gazza619]

Butt shamelessly kept denying his guilt for a long time after the incident which makes it far worse anyway.

 

[Junaids]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...e-Steve-Smith-Australia-captain-hes-time.html

BUMBLE ON THE TEST: Steve Smith has done his time and I see no issue with him being Australia captain again...

Again, he has only ever admitted to one offence - when he was caught at Cape Town.

It’s like a serial killer who has only been convicted of one of the murders he committed.

 

[Technics 1210]

Again, he has only ever admitted to one offence - when he was caught at Cape Town.

It’s like a serial killer who has only been convicted of one of the murders he committed.

Simply not true.

Smith was not caught on camera. What Cape Town evidence are you speaking of in reference to Smith?

 

[pakistani pride]

Steve Smith ban and captaincy removal was an over-correction from CA. At best he should've served a 2-3 test suspension and ICC themselves deemed that was enough, but CA had to cater to the fans around the world.

Good to see him back captaining.

Also equating the two scenarios is laughable at best.

This!

Agree 100%

 

[Junaids]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...e-Steve-Smith-Australia-captain-hes-time.html

BUMBLE ON THE TEST: Steve Smith has done his time and I see no issue with him being Australia captain again...

Simply not true.

Smith was not caught on camera. What Cape Town evidence are you speaking of in reference to Smith?

1. Smith was the captain throughout the period 2016-2018.

2. There were multiple occasions of ludicrous Reverse Swing in Tests from Wellington 2016 to Port Elizabeth 2018, which were highly suspicious of systematic and industrial-level ball tampering. I actually wrote about this in the PakPassion match thread from the stands at Kingsmead in Durban two Tests before Australia was caught. It was blatantly obvious that someone was doctoring the ball but we couldn’t see who was doing it.

3. Fanie De Villiers got the SuperSport camera team to follow the ball throughout the Durban and Port Elizabeth Tests before Australia was finally caught at Cape Town, because it was so obvious what was going on.

This was like there being a trail of missing teenage girls, leading to the prime suspect being followed and caught in the act of killing another one.

But then he fails to cooperate about the prior offences and says it was a one-off.

But it was convenient for the ICC and Cricket Australia to ignore the prior offences.

 

[Gilly]

Again, he has only ever admitted to one offence - when he was caught at Cape Town.

It’s like a serial killer who has only been convicted of one of the murders he committed.

Yeah but Smith is far worse than a serial killer.

 

[Giannis]

It's a shame.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Lets for the sake of argument accept that Smith had been ball tampering for ages based on circumstantial evidence

We should then apply similar logic to Salman Butt rather than saying he only agreed to bowl no balls in one match.

There is strong circumstancial evidence that Butt was complicit in the fixing of many matches and luring players into fixing.

He has been accused of this by co-players such as Abdur Razzaq who were allegedly suspicious at the time, Shahid Afridi was allegedly so suspicious he retired midway through a series and he his deep rooted links to corruption were detailed under oath by his co-charged.

Its like a serial killer who was only convicted for a minor assault charge.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Lets for the sake of argument accept that Smith had been ball tampering for ages based on circumstantial evidence

We should then apply similar logic to Salman Butt rather than saying he only agreed to bowl no balls in one match.

There is strong circumstancial evidence that Butt was complicit in the fixing of many matches and luring players into fixing.

He has been accused of this by co-players such as Abdur Razzaq who were allegedly suspicious at the time, Shahid Afridi was allegedly so suspicious he retired midway through a series and he his deep rooted links to corruption were detailed under oath by his co-charged.

Its like a serial killer who was only convicted for a minor assault charge.

Exactly.

Fact is, Junaids has always been a huge Butt fan and wanted him back in the team from the start. He will use mind-bending logic to try to justify his position.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Salman Butt got what he deserved. It was becoming hard to root for our own team during that 2009-10 tumultuous period. It was probably the most fractured group of players. The tensions were palpable and even a naive could see there was something wrong. Captaincy was thrown around like it was some pass the pillow game or something. Once Younis, Yousaf, Afridi, Misbah and Malik got dumped, it gave the sense of superiority to the newbies that they were ruling Pak cricket. Butt took advantage of it by preying on seasoned and young people who could be swayed into doing malicious stuff.

3 no balls might not look much on paper as they just gave away free 3 runs in a mammoth defeat but it showed everyone that the team fielding might not even be willing to compete and hence everyone rightfully felt cheated on. The same captain could ask a player into throwing a game away with a wide or an intentional half volley at a crunch situation.

They were rightfully convicted and banned. But yes, once you do your sentence you should be able to resume your life again but the perception and trust may not ever come from your colleagues and on lookers.

What Smith and co did was totally different although it was cheating and illegal, it showed a collective desire from the team (i don't buy that no one apart from those 3 knew about it) to go to any lengths necessary to win a game.

Smith and co tried to do a robin hood thing in their minds regardless of what others may think, but what Butt and co did was all for themselves.

 

[MenInG]

Oldish article but point being made in it for our discussion:

"Cheating is Cheating": Ian Chappell Slams Cricket Australia For Appointing Steve Smith As Vice-captainChappell said Cricket Australia should have started on a clean slate after Paine stood down. Going back to Smith as vice-captain was not the right precedent to set.NDTV Sports DeskUpdated: November 27, 2021 03:50 PM ISTRead Time:2 min
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"Cheating is Cheating": Ian Chappell Slams Cricket Australia For Appointing Steve Smith As Vice-captain
Steve Smith© AFP
Former Australia captain Ian Chappell was not happy with Cricket Australia's decision to appoint Steve Smith as vice-captain of the Test side. Smith, a former skipper, was removed as captain and banned from all cricket for 12 months for his involvement in Sandpapergate in Cape Town, South Africa in 2018, which saw Australian cricket go through a host of changes. They face a similar scenario currently after a scandal forced Tim Paine to take indefinite break from all forms of cricket. Australia named Pat Cummins as their new captain barely a couple of weeks before the Ashes while Smith made a comeback to the leadership group after three years as the vice-captain.

Chappell said Cricket Australia should have started on a clean slate after Paine stood down. Going back to Smith as vice-captain was not the right precedent to set.

"I wish that Cricket Australia had made a clean break, but for Cricket Australia to get anything right at the moment is asking a bit much," Chappell said on 2GB's Wide World of Sports radio on Saturday.

Chappell said the different treatment for David Warner and Smith for the same offence also doesn't make much sense. Warner, Smith were banned for 12 months while Cameron Bancroft was given a nine-month ban but the left-handed opening batter was also banned from captaincy for life, which was not the case with Smith, who was only banned from leading Australia for two years.

"For starters, I have a problem -- why is Steve Smith looked upon as a different punishment to David Warner? In fact, if anything, I think Steve Smith's crime was greater. For a captain to say, 'I don't want to know' when cheating is involved, is not correct. A captain's got to know, he's got to find out and he's got to do something about it. Either Steve Smith has a two-year ban from captaincy and so does David Warner, or Steve Smith has a life ban and so does Dave Warner. Same thing," said Chappell.

Using the "cheating," Chappell said Smith and Warner can continue as players but bringing them back in the leadership group is not the right example.

"Cheating is cheating, whether it's big cheating or little cheating, it's still cheating in my book. If I'd have cheated as an Australian captain -- I mean I made a lot of mistakes but I didn't cheat. And if I had cheated, and if I had done what Tim Paine did, I would have expected Cricket Australia to not ask me to resign, they would have taken the job away from me and made sure I didn't continue to play as a player," said Chappell.

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