Saudi Arabia allows Air India to use its skies for flights to Tel Aviv

[Varun]

NEW DELHI: Saudi Arabia has allowed Air India to use its airspace for flights between Delhi and Tel Aviv, Israeli daily Haaretz has reported.
However, there has not been an official confirmation from either the ministry of civil aviation here or Air India.

According to a spokesperson of the airline, the national carrier has sought permission from regulatory body DGCA for thrice-a-week flight services between Delhi and Tel Aviv from March, which is awaited.

Another Air India official said the airline is also waiting for slots at Delhi's Indira Gandhi International airport and Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport.

Many Arab and Islamic nations do not recognise Israel and, therefore, disallow airlines from using their airspace for flight services to that country.

According to the official, an approval from Saudi Arabia to use its airspace will allow Air India to take a shorter route by flying over Ahmedabad, Muscat, Saudi Arabia and then land at Tel Aviv.
Recommended By Colombia

This route will lead to a shorter flight duration between the two cities by two and a half hours and save fuel costs, the official said.

As of now, Israel's El Al flights between Tel Aviv and Mumbai take a seven-hour circuitous route and fly over the Red Sea, the Gulf of Aden and then enter India and avoid countries that are on the direct flight path such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Due to route overflying issues Air India was earlier also examining the possibility of operating flights from Mumbai to Tel Aviv.

Israel's tourism ministry has announced a one-time grant of 750,000 euros to Air India for flight operations.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...s-to-tel-aviv-report/articleshow/62824841.cms

.

 

[ataullah]

MashAllah I don't see any reason why they shouldn't allow them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Im not sure why this is news? Since when has the Saudi dictatorship cared about Israel's occupying nature?

 

[gani999]

Im not sure why this is news? Since when has the Saudi dictatorship cared about Israel's occupying nature?

Saudi Arabia and Israel actually do a lot of business together - under the table.
Israeli security experts are very much in demand in Saudi Arabia. Quite a few Israelis work in Saudi Arabia on short contracts. Only Israelis that have dual US/UK/EU nationalities are selected for such jobs, so that they don't have to use their Israeli passports.
Recently, Israel even offered to sell the Iron Dome missile defense system to the Saudis so that they could protect themselves from Yemeni missile attacks. There are also reports that the military drones that Saudi Arabia is building with South African cooperation are actually Israeli ones being clandestinely supplied via South Africa.


Once Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud becomes king, the floodgates will open even wider.

So why on earth will the Saudis have any issues with Air India aircraft overflying their territory en-route to Israel?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Saudi Arabia and Israel actually do a lot of business together - under the table.
Israeli security experts are very much in demand in Saudi Arabia. Quite a few Israelis work in Saudi Arabia on short contracts. Only Israelis that have dual US/UK/EU nationalities are selected for such jobs, so that they don't have to use their Israeli passports.
Recently, Israel even offered to sell the Iron Dome missile defense system to the Saudis so that they could protect themselves from Yemeni missile attacks. There are also reports that the military drones that Saudi Arabia is building with South African cooperation are actually Israeli ones being clandestinely supplied via South Africa.


Once Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud becomes king, the floodgates will open even wider.

So why on earth will the Saudis have any issues with Air India aircraft overflying their territory en-route to Israel?

I was making the same point. Saudi's also were happy for the Zionist regime to use their airspace to bomb Iran. All you have to do is keep in mind, the Saudi dictatroship were installed by the Briitsh and are defended by the Americans, they are not leaders of Muslims in any way but the enemies of Muslims.

 

[Varun]

So why on earth will the Saudis have any issues with Air India aircraft overflying their territory en-route to Israel?

The story is still a story, since other airlines from other countries have to avoid Saudi air space en route to TLV.

 

[Madplayer]

Leaders of Ummah strike again. But Hey, no compromise on one Ummah. I wonder why the muslim nations dont start a "One Ummah one road to stupidity" kind of initiative along the lines of OBOR with Pakistan heading it.

 

[Varun]

Leaders of Ummah strike again. But Hey, no compromise on one Ummah. I wonder why the muslim nations dont start a "One Ummah one road to stupidity" kind of initiative along the lines of OBOR with Pakistan heading it.

If it's of any consolation, Pakistan will not allow AI overflight rights on DEL-TLV. A path down to Gujarat, and then heading west, seems to be the one proposed.

According to the official, an approval from Saudi Arabia to use its airspace will allow Air India to take a shorter route by flying over Ahmedabad, Muscat, Saudi Arabia and then land at Tel Aviv.

 

[Madplayer]

If it's of any consolation, Pakistan will not allow AI overflight rights on DEL-TLV. A path down to Gujarat, and then heading west, seems to be the one proposed.

You dont get my point, i want Pakistan and all muslim countries to do whats in their interests. This boycott of Israel by Pakistan is pointless. Arabs are befriending Israelis, Arabs including Palestinians are hand in hand with Indians not caring about Pakistan's interests in Kashmir. Pakistan on the other hand. . Dont need to go into the details.

 

[sshakir411]

Should have happened long time ago. Saudi people nor Saudi rulers have love for Israel...but they want to be a dominant player regionally and globally, so they will eventually have to accept Israel. Also, Israel is a fact ALL Muslims should start accepting. It will not go away just because Palestinians have suffered and face injustice...

 

[gani999]

If it's of any consolation, Pakistan will not allow AI overflight rights on DEL-TLV. A path down to Gujarat, and then heading west, seems to be the one proposed.

But then you''ll still need to fly over Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Iraq and Jordan, none of whom will allow a TLV bound flight to overfly.

I wonder which light bulb at AI came up with the idea of DEL-TLV? A BOM-TLV routing across the Arabian sea and around the Arabian peninsula would have been much more sensible.

 

[shaz619]

Hardly news, it makes a lot of sense for wahabi extremists to deal with folk they have so much in common with

 

[King-Misbah]

You dont get my point, i want Pakistan and all muslim countries to do whats in their interests. This boycott of Israel by Pakistan is pointless. Arabs are befriending Israelis, Arabs including Palestinians are hand in hand with Indians not caring about Pakistan's interests in Kashmir. Pakistan on the other hand. . Dont need to go into the details.

Because two wrongs make a right and Israel is the only country left in this world with whom Pakistan can develop its relationship.

 

[TikkiTaka]

There is no unity in the Muslim Ummah which is the main problem. I dislike Israel but the fact is that they along with Pakistan are the only two countries that were created on the basis of religion. They will do anything to survive, similar to us against India.

Main issue is seeing how the Arabs are all cozying up to India. Allowing Hindus to build temples and even some UAE prince greeting Indian crowds with jai ram and stuff. They should be supporting us, not the Indians.

 

[Madplayer]

Because two wrongs make a right and Israel is the only country left in this world with whom Pakistan can develop its relationship.

You know how nation-states function in this day and age? Emotional decisions bring doom to a country. Why is it just Pakistan's problem? Do Arabs care about your interests in Kashmir? Is Kashmiri blood less valuable than that of Pakistan's Arab Masters'? In International relations, 2 wrongs do make a right and it is dictated by international relations conventions customs.

Pakistan should slowly and steadily take its population into confidence through propaganda and start building ties with Israel. Informally they already have ties via Istanbul so i am not sure what moral high ground is Pakistan protecting. It can even be used in arm twisting diplomacy against Arabs who consider Pakistan as nothing but a watchdog with nukes. Pakistan needs to stand up for itself for once infront of the (Arab) world.

 

[Pakpak]

You know how nation-states function in this day and age? Emotional decisions bring doom to a country. Why is it just Pakistan's problem? Do Arabs care about your interests in Kashmir? Is Kashmiri blood less valuable than that of Pakistan's Arab Masters'? In International relations, 2 wrongs do make a right and it is dictated by international relations conventions customs.

Pakistan should slowly and steadily take its population into confidence through propaganda and start building ties with Israel. Informally they already have ties via Istanbul so i am not sure what moral high ground is Pakistan protecting. It can even be used in arm twisting diplomacy against Arabs who consider Pakistan as nothing but a watchdog with nukes. Pakistan needs to stand up for itself for once infront of the (Arab) world.

Top post, sadly not many will agree with you.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The main reason for this is to save fuel thus cost, given Air India is dancing with bankruptcy.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Abu Jahal would be proud..

these arabs havent done anything significant for the Ummah since the the 900's. The turkic people and their descendants are the only ones who will do anything going forwards...The arabs will be destroyed and thats a prophecy they cant avoid..

Totally. Erdogan is the only real Muslim leader left. I like how he's bringing back and promoting Ottoman culture again after it was destroyed by Ataturk to appease the West.

 

[Traveller55]

Totally. Erdogan is the only real Muslim leader left. I like how he's bringing back and promoting Ottoman culture again after it was destroyed by Ataturk to appease the West.

He can do whatever he wishes culturally but Turkey knows its a small player in the region. If it betrays the west, its dead. If it ever has the delusion to pretend to be a major power again and do what it wants, then the Russians will remind them who have been historically the bosses of the Ottomans in the last 300 years and teach them a 'sharp lesson'.

Erdogan can consolidate in his backyard as much as he likes, but he knows he is a small fish, sitting in a strategically important piece of real estate, surrounded by two whales - Russia and the west. Only Way Turkey has a future, is if Turkey can be subservient to one or both of them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He can do whatever he wishes culturally but Turkey knows its a small player in the region. If it betrays the west, its dead. If it ever has the delusion to pretend to be a major power again and do what it wants, then the Russians will remind them who have been historically the bosses of the Ottomans in the last 300 years and teach them a 'sharp lesson'.

Erdogan can consolidate in his backyard as much as he likes, but he knows he is a small fish, sitting in a strategically important piece of real estate, surrounded by two whales - Russia and the west. Only Way Turkey has a future, is if Turkey can be subservient to one or both of them.

Do you spout nonsense in every thread you enter?

Turkey has been bombing the hell out of America's allies in Nothern Syria, against their wishes. Is this subservient in your view?

 

[Traveller55]

Do you spout nonsense in every thread you enter?

Turkey has been bombing the hell out of America's allies in Nothern Syria, against their wishes. Is this subservient in your view?

They are subservient to the US because when US commands Turkey, Turkey shuts up. Obviously when two allies have a dispute, the overlord (US) will back the one who is more important. Turkey is more important than Kurds in Syria to the US.

Lets see how much balls Turkey has to mess with even Greece, nevermind Israel, both of whom the US values more than Turkey.

The only reason US gives Turkey any leeway is because it doesn't want Turkey to become a bootlicker of the Russians. Russians on the other hand have always been very clear to slap Turkey around like a slave whenever Turkey has tried to get too big for its boots.

 

[KingKhanWC]

They are subservient to the US because when US commands Turkey, Turkey shuts up. Obviously when two allies have a dispute, the overlord (US) will back the one who is more important. Turkey is more important than Kurds in Syria to the US.

Lets see how much balls Turkey has to mess with even Greece, nevermind Israel, both of whom the US values more than Turkey.

The only reason US gives Turkey any leeway is because it doesn't want Turkey to become a bootlicker of the Russians. Russians on the other hand have always been very clear to slap Turkey around like a slave whenever Turkey has tried to get too big for its boots.

The definition of subservient is..

"prepared to obey others unquestioningly."

Turkey also embarrased the US recently with it's statement regarding the US embassy in Jerusalem.

I can give you numerous more examples where Turkey is not subservient.

You are clueless with regards to Russia too. Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet over Syria, knowingly and willingly, which slap did Russia give in return?

 

[Traveller55]

The definition of subservient is..

"prepared to obey others unquestioningly."

In that case, there are no subservient independent nation on this planet, because nobody 'obeys without question'. Even the ones who are too tiny to resist, protest like hell but are overwhelmed.

Turkey also embarrased the US recently with it's statement regarding the US embassy in Jerusalem.

Yes. That is all Turkey's aukaad is to the US. Make statements that US doesn't care about and doesn't harm the US interests in any meaningful way.

I can give you numerous more examples where Turkey is not subservient.

Sure. Its the US underling that complains about being an underling. But it does what its told, when as we say here '**** gets real'.

You are clueless with regards to Russia too. Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet over Syria, knowingly and willingly, which slap did Russia give in return?

Russia hinted at retribution and got Turkey to apologize like hell. Russia turned off their tourism of Turkey and Turkey paid in millions of dollars as Russian tourists went elsewhere.

As for being wrong about Russia- do check in history. Russia is the 'mai baap' of Turkey for the last 300 or so years. They are the ones to put the Ottomans in their place not once, twice or thrice, but more than half a dozen times. They are the ones who've eaten on the carcass of the Ottomans, like a predator eats on the carcass of a massive dead whale. A little bit at a time, spread over centuries till Turkey is nothing more than a rump state.

Russians are not fools, they too are a responsible power. The Cold war proved that. They won't start an all-out war for one shot down jet. Especially since Turkey 'stood down from the way of its mai-baap' and didn't threaten Russian jets again, lost crap ton of Russian business and apologized publicly.

But we all know, Russia will never leave Turkey alone because of the Bosphorus and Turkey will never be able to take on Russia and live. So master-slave relation between Russia and Turkey can only be averted by one realistic possibility : alliance with the west.

A highly educated, decorated and visionary nationalist - who cared more about Turks and Turkey (and certainly got his hands bloody with genocide when it came to putting the interests of his nation first)- named Ataturk realized this.

Hence the secularism, hence the alliance with the west.

But Erdogan, who is more interested in consolidating power than the good of his nation, has started to alienate the west while the bear still is overwhelmingly more powerful. The future Turks will pay for this mistake dearly.

 

[Gubol123]

Netanyahu Confirms...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ael-routes-netanyahu/articleshow/63180358.cms

 

[Varun]

AI139 DEL1650 – 2145TLV 788 247
AI140 TLV2315 – 0900+1DEL 788 247

Now bookable on the AI website. There is a healthy departure bank at the DEL end in that time slot for domestic and international connections, so not too bad.

 

[aukhan]

Good time for us to accept Israel as well.

 

[troodon]

Good time for us to accept Israel as well.

If Pak accept's Israel, then Israel will jump to hug Pak.

Acceptance from a major Islamic nation will mean a lot more to them than a non-Islamic one.

 

[Varun]

If Pak accept's Israel, then Israel will jump to hug Pak.

Acceptance from a major Islamic nation will mean a lot more to them than a non-Islamic one.

I agree, Israel is desperate to forge such ties. Even their diplomatic relations with Egypt and Jordan have stood the test of time - and those were nations against whom they actually fought wars with, unlike Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If Pak accept's Israel, then Israel will jump to hug Pak.

Acceptance from a major Islamic nation will mean a lot more to them than a non-Islamic one.

I don't believe Pak is a true Islamic nation any more than Israel is true Judaic one. Thus one day I hope the non-Abrahamic nations will one day lead the world and the rest will follow.

 

[sshakir411]

If Pak accept's Israel, then Israel will jump to hug Pak.

Acceptance from a major Islamic nation will mean a lot more to them than a non-Islamic one.

This isn't really true. Israel does not want to associate it self with Muslim countries that have wide spread extremism. The only reason Israel is warming up to Saudi now is because they're looking to reform their society and because of Iran.

Israel is here to stay regardless of what Muslims think. And at the end of the day Israel really doesn't need the support of Muslim countries anymore..in fact things will be the other way around in the next decade. You will see more Muslim countries lining up to recognize Israel.

 

[sshakir411]

I agree, Israel is desperate to forge such ties. Even their diplomatic relations with Egypt and Jordan have stood the test of time - and those were nations against whom they actually fought wars with, unlike Pakistan.

Not really..Israel has stable relations with Egypt and Jordan because both those countries now know that they can't mess with Israel in anything. It also doesn't help that they both border Israel so if Israel wanted to it really could strangle both those countries, anytime it wanted.

Muslims fail to realize that they've been beaten black and blue and have been left miles behind by the the other Abrahamic societies in everything.. rather than chest thumping and hoping religious prophecies come true, we Muslims should learn from the Jews and build a community that is as united and successful like the Jewish community.

 

[Varun]

The first flight is en route!

 

[Varun]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FlyAI?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FlyAI</a> : <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AirIndia?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AirIndia</a> scripts history with golden letters. Flt <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AI139?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AI139</a> flagged off by Shri Pradeep Singh Kharola, CMD Air India. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OVERWHELMING?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OVERWHELMING</a> response <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/shubhyatra?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#shubhyatra</a> to passengers <a href="https://twitter.com/DelhiAirport?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DelhiAirport</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/TelAviv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TelAviv</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/danielocarmon?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@danielocarmon</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/IsraelinIndia?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@IsraelinIndia</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/israelinMumbai?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@israelinMumbai</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/IsraelBangalore?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@IsraelBangalore</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/IsraelMFA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@IsraelMFA</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Israel?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Israel</a> <a href="https://t.co/h9wwSA06ML">pic.twitter.com/h9wwSA06ML</a></p>— Air India (@airindiain) <a href="https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/976791901427810305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Varun]

The first flight has touched down at TLV on time.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Saudis being lauded as a great friends of America as well



https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...t-friendship-with-saudi-crown-prince-10061180

 

[Varun]

Naturally, Israel has also asked for reciprocal overflight rights over Saudi Arabia for its long standing flight to BOM, but the Saudis haven't budged.

I guess that is still a bridge too far. In case of IRROPs such as a medical diversion / emergency landing/ weather alternates, it's fine to have an Air India plane on the ground. If an El Al Israel flight perches itself in a Saudi airport however, stuff will start hitting the fan.

Moreover, this is just one spoke, to be flown 4 days a week. El Al has several flights eastbound - Mumbai, Bangkok, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. All of them cannot realistically fly over KSA at this early stage of this supposed thaw.

 

[sshakir411]

Naturally, Israel has also asked for reciprocal overflight rights over Saudi Arabia for its long standing flight to BOM, but the Saudis haven't budged.

I guess that is still a bridge too far. In case of IRROPs such as a medical diversion / emergency landing/ weather alternates, it's fine to have an Air India plane on the ground. If an El Al Israel flight perches itself in a Saudi airport however, stuff will start hitting the fan.

Moreover, this is just one spoke, to be flown 4 days a week. El Al has several flights eastbound - Mumbai, Bangkok, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. All of them cannot realistically fly over KSA at this early stage of this supposed thaw.

Yep. If an Israel Airline plane is seen anywhere in Saudi there will be huge backlash. Israel and Muslims need to be slowly introduced to each other, in small doses. Kinda like getting your feet wet before diving in.

 

[Varun]

El Al Sues Israel After Air India Flies Through Saudi Airspace

But Israel’s national airline, El Al, still has to take the long way and fears that it will suffer serious financial damage from what it views as aerial discrimination.

So in a first of its own, El Al petitioned Israel’s Supreme Court on Wednesday, filing suit against the government; the Civil Aviation Authority; Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu; the transportation minister, Yisrael Katz; and Air India.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/world/middleeast/el-al-air-india-israel-saudi-arabia.html

What's El Al playing at? Both governments have worked hard to make this flight a possibility, and AI have also chosen DEL while leaving the BOM-based traffic to El Al - this lawsuit is unneeded.

 

[Varun]

Air India Increases Flight Services To Israel To Meet Tourist Demand

NEW DELHI: National flag carrier Air India on Wednesday announced an increase in its flight services to Israel, as the number of Indian tourists visiting the Jewish nation has been growing steadily.
"With an increased demand on Air India's New Delhi-Tel Aviv flight services, India's national carrier has confirmed an increase in frequency on this sector, adding a fifth weekly flight starting November 26, 2018," Israel's Ministry of Tourism said in a statement.

Air India will now operate the 256-seater Boeing 787 Dreamliner five days a week including Monday in addition to Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday, it added.

Israeli carrier El Al introduced a new Boeing aircraft on its Mumbai-Tel Aviv route.

"The new airplane has a capacity of 279 seats in a four-class configuration and will cater to the rising demand from India," the statement said.

El Al is the only airline currently servicing the direct Mumbai-Tel Aviv sector with three weekly non-stop flights.

As many as 48,800 Indians visited Israel from January to September this year.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air...ices-to-israel-to-meet-tourist-demand-1941399

3 to 4 to now 5 weekly. Good signs - the route is obviously performing well, with tourists and diplomatic traffic from both sides forming a chunk of the market, along with some transit Israeli pax.

 

[khan-92]

3 to 4 to now 5 weekly. Good signs - the route is obviously performing well, with tourists and diplomatic traffic from both sides forming a chunk of the market, along with some transit Israeli pax.

I regularly take groups to Jeruslaem, & recently noticed many Indians Tourists visiting.
So obviously this route has become very popular now.

 

[Varun]

I regularly take groups to Jeruslaem, & recently noticed many Indians Tourists visiting.
So obviously this route has become very popular now.

Helps that the visa process has been simplified. The barrier still remains the flight costs - seeing that it's just a choice between AI or LY (a duopoly), but there is no way around that in the medium term.