Selfish batting of Babar Azam will not let him fulfill his potential

[shamaan]

How about we wait for the worldcup to see how they fare? Babar, given the first opportunity in the odi World Cup broke a few Pakistani records, and I can bet he would come good, if not better , than the likes of overhyped cricketers from your country.

I have no doubts babar will perform in the t20 world cup let the haters hate

 

[Line and Length]

The hate Babar is getting , especially from the neighbours is interesting. The guy is out of form ( for his standards) and instead of trying to play high risk cricket, he decided to play a long innings and get his basics right. The salty neighbours trying to put him down with some rubbish comparisons, need to get a life. Babar is a top bar and he doesn’t need their endorsement... the world think he is good enough to be fab 4, the pak fans think he is the best bat currently... and that is all that matters.

Exactly. His first real rough patch in form and suddenly he’s not good enough to be even mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli, Williamson, Smith, and Warner. I don’t remember a 24 year old Root, Warner, Williamson playing a knock like that match winning 100 in a run chase, against NZ, in a must-win game in a World Cup. I mean, he almost averaged 70 in that World Cup at a SR of 87.61. He was only 24 years old. But suddenly a rough patch of form, where he’s still scoring 70s in a Test match against SA, and the vultures are surrounding him.

 

[Azrim_91]

I don’t care if he’s selfish because frankly he’s the best player in the country.

My concern is that I’m seeing a deterioration in his technique. The fact he hardly moves his feet anymore and plays everything from a static position.

These are worrying times for Babar fans. Unless he corrects this by playing overseas, I don’t think playing for flat clay wickets will help.

 

[Hyperion66]

Agreed.

In T20Is, IMO Kohli is the best, but Babar certainly has a better record than the likes of Williamson, Root, and Smith in the format.

In ODIs, IMO Kohli is again the best, followed by Root, followed by Rohit Sharma, followed by Williamson. I'd put Babar in a separate category, with the likes of KL Rahul, Shai Hope, perhaps Rishabh Pant, Labuschagne, Shreyas Iyer, and a few others as the ones to look out for in the next 3-4 years where some of these guys will reach their peaks.

Lastly, in tests, I'd again say that Kohli is better in my opinion, followed by Smith, Williamson, and Root. Babar's consistency at test match level has not been that commendable, and he makes too many rookie mistakes which hold him back from reaching better heights. He's probably one for the next few years.

I like Babar as a batsman, but I know that he's being hyped a bit too much given that besides him, our batsmen are a bunch of headless chickens. He doesn't have a hitting switch, so he should really reconsider his role in the team in my opinion. Maybe in two years we'll know where Babar stands in terms of what he's accomplished, and that will give us a better idea.

A very well-articulated post as always. I agree on most parts except I not rate Babar much as a t20 player despite stats. He is a liability in high scoring affairs.

In odi I think you are actually underrating him by quite a bit. ODI is his strongest format and he is a very reliable and dependable bat. Definitely a top 5 bat.

In test he is massively overrated here. He is no where near fab 4 nor will reach anywhere close to them in future unless he has a few otherworldly good years. With one century in SENA, no breakout series under his belt at the age of 26 and hardly any particularly phenomenal performance I honestly don't understand where all the hype comes from.

 

[Hyperion66]

How about we wait for the worldcup to see how they fare? Babar, given the first opportunity in the odi World Cup broke a few Pakistani records, and I can bet he would come good, if not better , than the likes of overhyped cricketers from your country.

Kohli doesn't need to prove jack as far as t20s are concerned.

I know Babar is a very good odi player.

Who is overhyped? Kohli? Rohit?

 

[MesonK]

A very well-articulated post as always. I agree on most parts except I not rate Babar much as a t20 player despite stats. He is a liability in high scoring affairs.

In odi I think you are actually underrating him by quite a bit. ODI is his strongest format and he is a very reliable and dependable bat. Definitely a top 5 bat.

In test he is massively overrated here. He is no where near fab 4 nor will reach anywhere close to them in future unless he has a few otherworldly good years. With one century in SENA, no breakout series under his belt at the age of 26 and hardly any particularly phenomenal performance I honestly don't understand where all the hype comes from.

o'rly ?

VK at 26/BA at 26

TESTS

Overall average in tests
39/45 (BA wins)
Away average in tests
33/37 (BA wins)
away 100s
3/2 (VK wins)

Babar opens the batting literally with Azhar Ali after likes of Shan Masoods, I Butts, Sami Aslams and Abid Alis are gone within first 4 overs.

T20s

Average in T20Is
46/48 (BA wins)
50s in T20Is
9/16 (BA wins)
Strike rate
131/131 (even)

ODIs

Average in ODIs
51.3/55.9 (BA wins)
Away Average in ODIs
47/47 (Even)

..........

Babar at same age as Kohli is just better or even. He peaked earlier, no one knows what happens to him in future. If he maintains these numbers for next 6 years he will end up as modern era ATG.

 

[Rana]

Very disappointed by him today.

He doesn’t play the ramp or paddle sweeps the way Kohli, Kane, Root and Smith would play them. He is a high quality player but not the most creative when he lacks the power game.

 

[Line and Length]

o'rly ?

VK at 26/BA at 26

TESTS

Overall average in tests
39/45 (BA wins)
Away average in tests
33/37 (BA wins)
away 100s
3/2 (VK wins)

Babar opens the batting literally with Azhar Ali after likes of Shan Masoods, I Butts, Sami Aslams and Abid Alis are gone within first 4 overs.

T20s

Average in T20Is
46/48 (BA wins)
50s in T20Is
9/16 (BA wins)
Strike rate
131/131 (even)

ODIs

Average in ODIs
51.3/55.9 (BA wins)
Away Average in ODIs
47/47 (Even)

..........

Babar at same age as Kohli is just better or even. He peaked earlier, no one knows what happens to him in future. If he maintains these numbers for next 6 years he will end up as modern era ATG.

Nice comparison. Still, I don’t even think there’s any point in dignifying these posts with a response. The level of insecurity and stubborn veneration some of these people have for their players is laughable.

 

[MesonK]

Nice comparison. Still, I don’t even think there’s any point in dignifying these posts with a response. The level of insecurity and stubborn veneration some of these people have for their players is laughable.

Stats always tell the truth.

You will not find a single Indian fan bumping the Pujara vs Azhar Ali thread anymore after what filtered stats did to the Pujara status of Dravid+Miandad.

 

[Hyperion66]

o'rly ?

VK at 26/BA at 26

TESTS

Overall average in tests
39/45 (BA wins)
Away average in tests
33/37 (BA wins)
away 100s
3/2 (VK wins)

Babar opens the batting literally with Azhar Ali after likes of Shan Masoods, I Butts, Sami Aslams and Abid Alis are gone within first 4 overs.

T20s

Average in T20Is
46/48 (BA wins)
50s in T20Is
9/16 (BA wins)
Strike rate
131/131 (even)

ODIs

Average in ODIs
51.3/55.9 (BA wins)
Away Average in ODIs
47/47 (Even)

..........

Babar at same age as Kohli is just better or even. He peaked earlier, no one knows what happens to him in future. If he maintains these numbers for next 6 years he will end up as modern era ATG.

DO NOT manipulate stats.

At exact 26 years 4 months (Babar's age) Kohli had 7 away centuries and an average of 46 in test cricket, that includes his breakout series in Aus.

You lost all credibility for me to even take a look at rest of your garbage stats.

Now that I exposed your lies, hopefully you will be careful about posting doctored stats.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Utter and total rubbish. Barbar is without doubt the biggest match winner in Pakistan since Inzamam-ul-Haq. Either you haven't followed the match after match after match Barbar has won Pakistan or if you have, you've got the memory of a goldfish.

I agree today's innings lost momentum at the end but it changes literally nothing when it comes to Barbar's sheer brilliance.

Of the many memorable moments Barbar has given Pakistan, one of my favourites was against the eventual runners up New Zealand in the 2019 World Cup. I was at Edgbaston for that game and saw first hand how brilliant the New Zealand team were, swinging and seaming the ball in hoops. In a do or die World Cup game, Barbar scored a magnificent hundred and won Pakistan the match when it mattered most. At that time at that moment, Barbar was the only man in the whole of Pakistan who could have done that. So please, before commenting on Barbar's apparent lack of elite mentality, do take the time to educate yourself on the facts.

U mentioned one match lol, hes not a match winner afridi is a bigger match winner then babar, tho afridi had low batting iq.

Babar has played like maybe 2 match winning innings in 5 years.

Face it hes no MAMBA. he doesnt have the MAMBA MENTALITY. Simple as that. While kohli does.

 

[topspin]

Utter and total rubbish. Barbar is without doubt the biggest match winner in Pakistan since Inzamam-ul-Haq. Either you haven't followed the match after match after match Barbar has won Pakistan or if you have, you've got the memory of a goldfish.

I agree today's innings lost momentum at the end but it changes literally nothing when it comes to Barbar's sheer brilliance.

Of the many memorable moments Barbar has given Pakistan, one of my favourites was against the eventual runners up New Zealand in the 2019 World Cup. I was at Edgbaston for that game and saw first hand how brilliant the New Zealand team were, swinging and seaming the ball in hoops. In a do or die World Cup game, Barbar scored a magnificent hundred and won Pakistan the match when it mattered most. At that time at that moment, Barbar was the only man in the whole of Pakistan who could have done that. So please, before commenting on Barbar's apparent lack of elite mentality, do take the time to educate yourself on the facts.

The fact that you could only cite his innings against NZ epitomises how some of the delusional green tinted hype brigade are clutching at straws. Even with that innings it wasn't enough because Pakistan needed to win big due to hit on their NRR following the big losses against WI and India. These are the facts I would advise for you to educate yourself on.

 

[LeedsGreen]

why are we intent on destroying babar?

he is the best batsman in pakistan by some distance.... comparisons with the likes of kohli, smith, williamson are useless as they are all playing in MUCH better sides.... a match winning hundred from smith/ williamson looks great when part of a 350+ score... babar scores big and most of the time the score limps to par due to the weakness around him... add that to the fact pakistans bowling has been weak in recent years and suddenly innings look pointless/ selfish at first glance but in the case of pakistani batsmen... context is key

 

[LeedsGreen]

The fact that you could only cite his innings against NZ epitomises how some of the delusional green tinted hype brigade are clutching at straws. Even with that innings it wasn't enough because Pakistan needed to win big due to hit on their NRR following the big losses against WI and India. These are the facts I would advise for you to educate yourself on.

if babar got out for under 20 that game... do you truly believe pakistan wouldve won that match?

 

[Ab Fan]

Babar is a very good limited overs batsman. But in test cricket, he has a long way to go. By his age, most elite test batsman were averaging 45+ and had over 3000 test runs.

 

[Savak]

A very well-articulated post as always. I agree on most parts except I not rate Babar much as a t20 player despite stats. He is a liability in high scoring affairs.

In odi I think you are actually underrating him by quite a bit. ODI is his strongest format and he is a very reliable and dependable bat. Definitely a top 5 bat.

In test he is massively overrated here. He is no where near fab 4 nor will reach anywhere close to them in future unless he has a few otherworldly good years. With one century in SENA, no breakout series under his belt at the age of 26 and hardly any particularly phenomenal performance I honestly don't understand where all the hype comes from.

Williamson is like Babar but he has found ways to score runs quickly via deflections, late cuts

 

[topspin]

why are we intent on destroying babar?

he is the best batsman in pakistan by some distance.... comparisons with the likes of kohli, smith, williamson are useless as they are all playing in MUCH better sides.... a match winning hundred from smith/ williamson looks great when part of a 350+ score... babar scores big and most of the time the score limps to par due to the weakness around him... add that to the fact pakistans bowling has been weak in recent years and suddenly innings look pointless/ selfish at first glance but in the case of pakistani batsmen... context is key

if babar got out for under 20 that game... do you truly believe pakistan wouldve won that match?

Potentially if you consider his strike rate today was 115 on a 200+ wicket. 200 runs off 120 balls equates to a strike rate of approximately 167. Babar was well short of that.

No sincere Pakistan fan is "intent on destroying Babar". He's just a little bit overrated on PP. If you go back to the last 12-18 months you'll find all the hyperbole about him being superior to Root and being amongst the Fab 4 whereas actually he's some way off making that cut.

 

[hitthestump]

Maybe we're seeing the decline of Babar following his acceptance of the captaincy of Pakistan.

We all know the guy cannot handle pressure. He didn't even want to lead a PSL team. We may be ruining the one talent we have by making him think he should take a role he absolutely isn't suited for and thus it's affecting his batting.

 

[LeedsGreen]

Potentially if you consider his strike rate today was 115 on a 200+ wicket. 200 runs off 120 balls equates to a strike rate of approximately 167. Babar was well short of that.

No sincere Pakistan fan is "intent on destroying Babar". He's just a little bit overrated on PP. If you go back to the last 12-18 months you'll find all the hyperbole about him being superior to Root and being amongst the Fab 4 whereas actually he's some way off making that cut.

with all due respect to the PSL... its fun cricket a nice t20 league for babar to come and regain form, selfish yes but for the betterment of pakistan in the short and long term ....as for him being close to the fab 4 i think in tests he has some way to go yet the vast majority of batsmen in the history of the game seem to 'peak' later on in tests... maybe due to the different mental strength and fitness needed to play the format but i do believe he will improve and reach the numbers he is capable of.

in t20s and odis he is arguably better than root and close to smith and in odis especially i personally feel he has earned the right to be in the same convo as the fab 4 and in t20s yes his strike rate is on the loswer side at times but in internationals he has already shown improvements and just needs to find that final gear... maybe he should chat to hafeez who seems to have mastered the power hitting part of the game once he has reached 40.

all in all relax people... no need for such overly dramatic threads

 

[Hyperion66]

Stats always tell the truth.

In your case? No

Just caught you red handed posting fake stats to big up Babar. That was just real bad man. Don't put your reputation at stake to prove a stupid point.

Babar is a very good player, he can build his own stats.

 

[Ab Fan]

At age of 26, these are stats of other elite batsman in tests debuted from 2000s onwards.

Steve Smith:- Avg 60
V Sehwag:- Avg 55
Joe Root:- Avg 52
Kevin Pietersen:- Avg 52
Kumar Sangakkara:- Avg 51
Alastair Cook:- Avg 49
AB de Villiers:- Avg 47
Hashim Amla:- Avg 47
Cheteshwar Pujara:- Avg 47
Graeme Smith:- Avg 47
Michael Clarke:- Avg 46
Virat Kohli:- Avg 45
Babar Azam:- Avg 44

So, yes. He is overrated in tests.

 

[RyanRyan10]

DO NOT manipulate stats.

At exact 26 years 4 months (Babar's age) Kohli had 7 away centuries and an average of 46 in test cricket, that includes his breakout series in Aus.

You lost all credibility for me to even take a look at rest of your garbage stats.

Now that I exposed your lies, hopefully you will be careful about posting doctored stats.

Haha

He has also manipulated other stats

The strike rate of Babar is 130.27 while at the same age Virat's SR was 131.70. That's a difference of 1.43 but he has made it look even.

If we apply round off then 130.27 will become 130 and 131.70 will become but 132. But somehow it became even for him.

Babar also played more T20I at 26y133d then Kohli so don't understand why we need to compare the no of 50s they have scored.

Another thing is VK made his Odi debut 7 years before Babar and T20I debut years before Babar. Run scoring has become easier now than it was before. If he had gone through statistical analysis of any reputed writer than he would have not made such comparison. Or maybe he is actually aware of all this and intentionally manipulated with data?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Haha

He has also manipulated other stats

The strike rate of Babar is 130.27 while at the same age Virat's SR was 131.70. That's a difference of 1.43 but he has made it look even.

If we apply round off then 130.27 will become 130 and 131.70 will become but 132. But somehow it became even for him.

Babar also played more T20I at 26y133d then Kohli so don't understand why we need to compare the no of 50s they have scored.

Another thing is VK made his Odi debut 7 years before Babar and T20I debut years before Babar. Run scoring has become easier now than it was before. If he had gone through statistical analysis of any reputed writer than he would have not made such comparison. Or maybe he is actually aware of all this and intentionally manipulated with data?

I don’t know about the manipulated data (haven’t read the posts in detail) and I agree that Kohli is far, far superior to Babar, but there are a lot of interesting similarities actually on a statistical level.

I was reading this article some weeks ago. Very fascinating read [removed article]

Edit: please google “Babar and Virat One and the Other”

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I don’t know about the manipulated data (haven’t read the posts in detail) and I agree that Kohli is far, far superior to Babar, but there are a lot of interesting similarities actually on a statistical level.

I was reading this article some weeks ago. Very fascinating read [removed article]

Edit: please google “Babar and Virat One and the Other”

I think now you will get why i said that Babar might not get picked in IPL.Shaheen will , Amir will break records but IPL franchises do not need someone like him.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

o'rly ?

VK at 26/BA at 26

TESTS

Overall average in tests
39/45 (BA wins)
Away average in tests
33/37 (BA wins)
away 100s
3/2 (VK wins)

Babar opens the batting literally with Azhar Ali after likes of Shan Masoods, I Butts, Sami Aslams and Abid Alis are gone within first 4 overs.

T20s

Average in T20Is
46/48 (BA wins)
50s in T20Is
9/16 (BA wins)
Strike rate
131/131 (even)

ODIs

Average in ODIs
51.3/55.9 (BA wins)
Away Average in ODIs
47/47 (Even)

..........

Babar at same age as Kohli is just better or even. He peaked earlier, no one knows what happens to him in future. If he maintains these numbers for next 6 years he will end up as modern era ATG.

I though we cant compare cricketers who have a 5 year gap?(gambhir vs azhar)
Secondly the only innings of note Babar has played as of now is his hundred against NZ, Kohli had legendary knocks against Australia,Srl,Pak by the time he was 26.

 

[Coolcapri]

There is issue with babar stance & swing when he go for bigger hit,

I suggest he should widened his stance when going for big shots, Also playing some golf will help him in big hitting, As golf swing can help the smooth swing of the bat,

He should practice 6 hitting in nets for few overs only, the confidence of hitting 20/30 sixes in practice will help him in real match where he needs only 4 to 5 sixes to keep strike rate healthy.

 

[Ab Fan]

Babar is Root level in ODIs. Kohli is a Viv Richards level batsman minus hitting skills. No comparison between two in that format.

Kohli is also miles ahead of Babar in test cricket. Kohli has 27 test tons while Babar has 5.

 

[Coolcapri]

Babar Azam is a good batsman. But he has a selfish streak in his batting which will not let him become a great batsman if he does not control his selfishness. We saw it in Australia tour and it has been shown repeatedly afterwards. To become a great batsman he has to think for the team first.

I think its not about selfish batting and more to do the big hitting skill, he need to work on his hitting ability.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I think now you will get why i said that Babar might not get picked in IPL.Shaheen will , Amir will break records but IPL franchises do not need someone like him.

Babar will definitely be picked as Smith, Hetmyer, du Plessis, Banton, de Kock, Williamson, and Josh Philippe are also picked.

I don’t think any of these guys are superior T20 batsmen to Babar.

However you are right — Shaheen and Amir would be the most expensive overseas players in IPL history.

 

[MHN1293]

Haha

He has also manipulated other stats

The strike rate of Babar is 130.27 while at the same age Virat's SR was 131.70. That's a difference of 1.43 but he has made it look even.

If we apply round off then 130.27 will become 130 and 131.70 will become but 132. But somehow it became even for him.

Babar also played more T20I at 26y133d then Kohli so don't understand why we need to compare the no of 50s they have scored.

Another thing is VK made his Odi debut 7 years before Babar and T20I debut years before Babar. Run scoring has become easier now than it was before. If he had gone through statistical analysis of any reputed writer than he would have not made such comparison. Or maybe he is actually aware of all this and intentionally manipulated with data?

Babar is not kohli level yet but dont downplay him as if hes playing in an easier era for batting. Odi batting ave during kohlis first 6 years and 100 or so days, 30.4. Batting average during babars first 6 years and 100 or so days 32. T201 batting average has roughly remained the same i.e 22. So maybe batting was harder in kohlis era but not by much. Oh wait lets compare test. Averave of 35 in kohlis era, average of 30 in babars era. Massive difference. Consider that babar basically always has to come in first 5 or 10 overs. I beleive the stats i posted are correct but if they are wrong yiu can correct me.

 

[ChTab]

Babar is not kohli level yet but dont downplay him as if hes playing in an easier era for batting. Odi batting ave during kohlis first 6 years and 100 or so days, 30.4. Batting average during babars first 6 years and 100 or so days 32. T201 batting average has roughly remained the same i.e 22. So maybe batting was harder in kohlis era but not by much. Oh wait lets compare test. Averave of 35 in kohlis era, average of 30 in babars era. Massive difference. Consider that babar basically always has to come in first 5 or 10 overs. I beleive the stats i posted are correct but if they are wrong yiu can correct me.

Babar can never reach the level of Kohli in LOI's period.
In test matches, he could reach the level of Virat but Babar will need to work immensely hard now as everyone knows he is a walking wicket vs left-arm spin.

 

[naseem]

He was out twice in no balls..and he was going for his shots....unlike the nudges and pushes of Imam

 

[naseem]

Babar can never reach the level of Kohli in LOI's period.
In test matches, he could reach the level of Virat but Babar will need to work immensely hard now as everyone knows he is a walking wicket vs left-arm spin.

Actually he can in ODIS but long way to go in Tests

 

[ChTab]

Actually he can in ODIS but long way to go in Tests

No chance, Babar will not play an innings in his whole career as Kohli did vs SL in Australia or like his innings vs Pak in the 2012 Asia Cup.

Babar will end up scoring the most runs & centuries in ODI's for Pakistan, but most of these runs will be soft runs, the guy couldn't help us win the match vs Zimbabwe at home.

It's kind of stupid & unfair to imagine that Babar will reach Kohli's level.

 

[UzmanBeast]

The batsmen you have put forward in ODIs have no comparison at all with Babar whether we want to go by, average, SR, performance in WC, expert opinions or ODI rankings.

I put them in a list of ones to look forward to in the future. I'm pretty sure that anyone who knows cricket knows that Babar is a superior ODI batsman than all of them, but I grouped a few talented players together as people to be wary of in the future.

 

[UzmanBeast]

A very well-articulated post as always. I agree on most parts except I not rate Babar much as a t20 player despite stats. He is a liability in high scoring affairs.

In odi I think you are actually underrating him by quite a bit. ODI is his strongest format and he is a very reliable and dependable bat. Definitely a top 5 bat.

In test he is massively overrated here. He is no where near fab 4 nor will reach anywhere close to them in future unless he has a few otherworldly good years. With one century in SENA, no breakout series under his belt at the age of 26 and hardly any particularly phenomenal performance I honestly don't understand where all the hype comes from.

He is a good, dependable ODI batsman. This is his strong spot, averaging 56 almost with a decent strike rate. This is the format where he'll make his name in my opinion.

His consistency in T20I is admirable, but his strike rate isn't good enough. The ideal innings for Babar in T20I would be to hit a 50 from 35 balls and get out, to bring stronger batsmen into the game. He needs to improve his hitting quite a bit, even if it means slogging the ball on the leg-side, he just needs to find a way of scoring boundaries quicker.

In tests, if he was able to convert his starts better (not getting out the next day), I might have considered him but that isn't the case. If he got another hundred in Australia, that might have been the series that made him, but it wasn't. In tests, you need another mindset and play style where you have to look a class apart and then score runs. A good player hits a 50, a better player converts it into a hundred, and the fab 4 look past that to a 150+ score and really punish the opposition. Babar is still in that developing stage, he's making the 50s but he isn't converting them. Once his conversion improves, we might see improvement in test matches, but he's not as good right now as he could be.

 

[Titan24]

I put them in a list of ones to look forward to in the future. I'm pretty sure that anyone who knows cricket knows that Babar is a superior ODI batsman than all of them, but I grouped a few talented players together as people to be wary of in the future.

Fair enough. Thanks for clarification.

 

[King_Kohli]

At age of 26, these are stats of other elite batsman in tests debuted from 2000s onwards.

Steve Smith:- Avg 60
V Sehwag:- Avg 55
Joe Root:- Avg 52
Kevin Pietersen:- Avg 52
Kumar Sangakkara:- Avg 51
Alastair Cook:- Avg 49
AB de Villiers:- Avg 47
Hashim Amla:- Avg 47
Cheteshwar Pujara:- Avg 47
Graeme Smith:- Avg 47
Michael Clarke:- Avg 46
Virat Kohli:- Avg 45
Babar Azam:- Avg 44

So, yes. He is overrated in tests.

This is alarming

 

[Ab Fan]

This is alarming

Who cares? It is 53 now.

 

[King_Kohli]

Who cares? It is 53 now.

Got it, I misread your post

 

[Saj]

Looking at yesterday's innings in isolation.

Simply no excuse to be scoring at a SR off 114 with so many wickets in hand and the likes of Clarke and Ingram still to bat and Nabi only facing 5 balls.

 

[PakPremi]

At age of 26, these are stats of other elite batsman in tests debuted from 2000s onwards.

Steve Smith:- Avg 60
V Sehwag:- Avg 55
Joe Root:- Avg 52
Kevin Pietersen:- Avg 52
Kumar Sangakkara:- Avg 51
Alastair Cook:- Avg 49
AB de Villiers:- Avg 47
Hashim Amla:- Avg 47
Cheteshwar Pujara:- Avg 47
Graeme Smith:- Avg 47
Michael Clarke:- Avg 46
Virat Kohli:- Avg 45
Babar Azam:- Avg 44

So, yes. He is overrated in tests.

So leaving out the batsmen you mentioned that have average in 50 s ,all other greats bats have 1 to 5 runs difference in tests, Kohli the ATG only 1, and you call Babar overrated. Test at thw moment being his weakest suit too.

 

[PakPremi]

Who cares? It is 53 now.

You were arguing about "by the age of 26" not now.

 

[MesonK]

DO NOT manipulate stats.

At exact 26 years 4 months (Babar's age) Kohli had 7 away centuries and an average of 46 in test cricket, that includes his breakout series in Aus.

You lost all credibility for me to even take a look at rest of your garbage stats.

Now that I exposed your lies, hopefully you will be careful about posting doctored stats.

Only Garbage and hate here is coming from you. You were calling Babar Azam a nothing player in tests and when you were plastered with stats that VK had same or similar stats to BA at 26 you retreated to attacks.

Babar is 26 right now, the stats I posted were till 5th November 2014, the day VK turned 26. I just did not care to include 4 months that is all. Here are their stats when VK turned 26

Even if I include those months to make them exact same age in days, its not like VK has some ATG stats compared to BA. Both man average around mid 40s. Only reason VK has mildly better stats is because he had good series against England in early 2015 prior to which he was averaging 39 in tests. Babar will get these series as well in future. You were making it sound like VK was averaging at Bradman levels at BA age

LOL at delusions

By his age, most elite test batsman were averaging 45+ and had over 3000 test runs.

VK had ~2500 runs at exact BA age. By your logic VK was a mediocre test player at BA age ? Agreed (midn you before English series he was averaging 29 in tests, I posted the record above)

Babar is a very good player, he can build his own stats.

But according to you BA is levels below VK and is mediocre and what not ... yet BA has almost same average to VK at same age. How did that happen ? BA plays for a much much weaker batting lineup and literally open the innings while VK for most of his career has batted along the likes of Sharma, Dhoni, Pujara, Yuvraj, Rahul .... How did VK had an average of 39 before England series at age 26.

At age of 26, these are stats of other elite batsman in tests debuted from 2000s onwards.

Steve Smith:- Avg 60
V Sehwag:- Avg 55
Joe Root:- Avg 52
Kevin Pietersen:- Avg 52
Kumar Sangakkara:- Avg 51
Alastair Cook:- Avg 49
AB de Villiers:- Avg 47
Hashim Amla:- Avg 47
Cheteshwar Pujara:- Avg 47
Graeme Smith:- Avg 47
Michael Clarke:- Avg 46
Virat Kohli:- Avg 45
Babar Azam:- Avg 44

So, yes. He is overrated in tests.

So VK is not an elite batsman then. He is similar stats to BA. Alright.

The strike rate of Babar is 130.27 while at the same age Virat's SR was 131.70. That's a difference of 1.43 but he has made it look even.

If we apply round off then 130.27 will become 130 and 131.70 will become but 132. But somehow it became even for him.

Babar also played more T20I at 26y133d then Kohli so don't understand why we need to compare the no of 50s they have scored.

Difference of 1.4 in strike rate is almost NOTHING which is why I casually wrote 131 for both. Your BIG revelation changed nothing. Had the difference been 15-20 then it would have mattered. I would have casually done the same thing if BA was ahead by the MASSIVE strike rate difference of 1.4.

I do understand why such minimal number differences may matter to you because your hero VK is not having any proper edge over "mediocre" BA at same age. So yeah I understand.

Another thing is VK made his Odi debut 7 years before Babar and T20I debut years before Babar. Run scoring has become easier now than it was before.

Provide actual numerical proof or agree that you are making up stuff to give VK edge over BA ?

I though we cant compare cricketers who have a 5 year gap?(gambhir vs azhar)

Your own countryman started comparing VK with BA not me, so grab his neck, spare me the complaining.

and Btw Gambhir discussion was also started by another Indian fan in Azhar Ali vs Pujara thread. I was the first one to point out that GG belonged to a different generation of players compared to Azhar and Pujara.

Secondly the only innings of note Babar has played as of now is his hundred against NZ, Kohli had legendary knocks against Australia,Srl,Pak by the time he was 26.

You do realize that VK played in teams made of Sharma, Dhawan, Pujara, Dhoni, Yuvraj, Rahul, Rahane and BA played in teams made of Abid Ali, Shan Masood, Asif Ali, Sarfaraz, Hafeez, Malik, Imam ...

But then I wonder, How come both men are averaging same at same age ? Is VK a false ATG or is BA not that "mediocre" after all like how Azhar Ali turned out to be similar to Pujara once the stats got opened up?

 

[topspin]

with all due respect to the PSL... its fun cricket a nice t20 league for babar to come and regain form, selfish yes but for the betterment of pakistan in the short and long term ....as for him being close to the fab 4 i think in tests he has some way to go yet the vast majority of batsmen in the history of the game seem to 'peak' later on in tests... maybe due to the different mental strength and fitness needed to play the format but i do believe he will improve and reach the numbers he is capable of.

in t20s and odis he is arguably better than root and close to smith and in odis especially i personally feel he has earned the right to be in the same convo as the fab 4 and in t20s yes his strike rate is on the loswer side at times but in internationals he has already shown improvements and just needs to find that final gear... maybe he should chat to hafeez who seems to have mastered the power hitting part of the game once he has reached 40.

all in all relax people... no need for such overly dramatic threads

I honestly don't think he's even close to any of the Fab 4 in each format but time will tell. For the greater good of Pakistan cricket, I hope he proves me wrong.

Agree with your last line. This thread is way too dramatic. Babar isn't selfish. He just doesn't have that 6th gear.

 

[Hyperion66]

Only Garbage and hate here is coming from you. You were calling Babar Azam a nothing player in tests and when you were plastered with stats that VK had same or similar stats to BA at 26 you retreated to attacks.

Babar is 26 right now, the stats I posted were till 5th November 2014, the day VK turned 26. I just did not care to include 4 months that is all. Here are their stats when VK turned 26

Even if I include those months to make them exact same age in days, its not like VK has some ATG stats compared to BA. Both man average around mid 40s. Only reason VK has mildly better stats is because he had good series against England in early 2015 prior to which he was averaging 39 in tests. Babar will get these series as well in future. You were making it sound like VK was averaging at Bradman levels at BA age

LOL at delusions

DO NOT peddle fake stats.

I thought after I caught you red handed peddling fake stats you learned your lesson but no you are making it a habit now.

You did not care to add 4 months as it did not suite your agenda, I added as Babar is currently 26 years 4 months old!!

Now let me expose your blatant lies once more. You mentioned Babar has 2 away centuries at 26 while technically yes but when you dig deep he has only one in Brisbane and the other one in Dubai, your then home ground!! You wanna put that in the same class as a SENA ton?

Yes compared to Babar Virat had ATGesque stats at 26. Babar still has only one SENA century while Kohli had 7!! and mind you none of them came in SL, BD or Dubai, they came in AUS, NZ and SA. That is a significant point that you conveniently ignored. Do I still need to explain the massive difference in class?

Yes at 26 years of age Babar's stats are exact opposite of elite.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

DO NOT peddle fake stats.

I thought after I caught you red handed peddling fake stats you learned your lesson but no you are making it a habit now.

You did not care to add 4 months as it did not suite your agenda, I added as Babar is currently 26 years 4 months old!!

Now let me expose your blatant lies once more. You mentioned Babar has 2 away centuries at 26 while technically yes but when you dig deep he has only one in Brisbane and the other one in Dubai, your then home ground!! You wanna put that in the same class as a SENA ton?

Yes compared to Babar Virat had ATGesque stats at 26. Babar still has only one SENA century while Kohli had 7!! and mind you none of them came in SL, BD or Dubai, they came in AUS, NZ and SA. That is a significant point that you conveniently ignored. Do I still need to explain the massive difference in class?

Yes at 26 years of age Babar's stats are exact opposite of elite.

Add to that Babar hasn't yet won a test match for his side even in home conditions.

 

[King_Kohli]

Babar is what, 25-26 years old..
By that age :

Kohli has 5 Test Centuries in Australia, 103 and 97 in South Africa, Match Winning 50 vs SA under pressure in 2014 WC Semi-Final as well as man of series performance there and decent 36 runs in 2011 WC final
Steve Smith had a double century at Lords, Centuries in multiple countries outside Australia, WC Quarterfinal 50 and Semi final 100, 93 on a Square turner vs India in India.

Williamson had centuries in India at debut, vs South Africa in SA, vs Australia in Australia in tests as well as ODIs, and decent scores in T20is.

 

[street cricketer]

Babar is selfish only if you put on the nationalistic lens and start thinking Babar is our best player, so he has to better than India's best player. Keeping all this parochialism out of the game, purely from a cricketing perspective, one can easily see that Babar and Kohli are two different types of players. Kohli probably more in the Ponting mould than Sachin.

While Babar is more in the mould of someone like Hashim Amla, but only more elegant. Babar, like Amla, is a classy batsman who can have an excellent test career and LOI career, but probably doesn't have the high gears similar to Amla. I do however think he has the potential to become someone like Kane Williamson, who also doesn't necessarily have the highest gears as a batsman, but is someone who can score at a brisk rate using purely his stroke making skills.

 

[Ab Fan]

So leaving out the batsmen you mentioned that have average in 50 s ,all other greats bats have 1 to 5 runs difference in tests, Kohli the ATG only 1, and you call Babar overrated. Test at thw moment being his weakest suit too.

The difference is there for everyone to see. All greats and ATGs were averaging higher than Babar. Cheteshwar Pujara was averaging +3 higher.

Kohli already had 5 away hundreds and he hit his peak right then and took his average to 50+. Babar at this point is just a good test batsman and he will have to hit the peak of Ponting/ Kohli to match his stature as test batsman. To put all things into consideration, yes, he is clearly overrated and need a couple of big years in test format to be considered an equivalent of fab four.

 

[ChTab]

Babar is extremely overrated by Pakistani fans in all formats.

In tests IMO peak Azhar was better batsman than Babar currently is although Babar will most certainly pass him & will end up as a better batsman. He has a stupid habit of throwing his wicket away once he is set & this has happened so many times. But Pakistani fans think he should be included in FAB 4 .

In ODI'S he's slightly overrated most of the centuries he has scored he has scored vs smaller teams. He has only 1 century vs Aus, Eng & NZ, 0 vs Ind & SA which is an alarming thing. He doesn't know how to shift gears like Kohli does so effectively.

I don't care about T20's unless it's a WT20 & so far he hasn't played any.

 

[Ab Fan]

Test batsman in last 20 years:-

Tier 1- Steve Smith

Tier 2- Virat Kohli, Kumar Sangakkara

Tier 3:- KP, ABD, Cook, Clarke, Amla, Younis, G Smith, Root, Williamson, Hayden, Sehwag

Tier 4:- Mahela, Pujara, Yousuf, Hussey, Martyn

Babar needs a couple of big years to hit tier 3. If he maintains similar level of performance, he will be a tier 4 batsman alongside Yousuf and Hussey.

For anything beyond tier 3, he needs 8000+ test runs at average of 50+ with 25 hundreds.

 

[Napa]

Test batsman in last 20 years:-

Tier 1- Steve Smith

Tier 2- Virat Kohli, Kumar Sangakkara

Tier 3:- KP, ABD, Cook, Clarke, Amla, Younis, G Smith, Root, Williamson, Hayden, Sehwag

Tier 4:- Mahela, Pujara, Yousuf, Hussey, Martyn

Babar needs a couple of big years to hit tier 3. If he maintains similar level of performance, he will be a tier 4 batsman alongside Yousuf and Hussey.

For anything beyond tier 3, he needs 8000+ test runs at average of 50+ with 25 hundreds.

I would place Pujara much higher. Not only was he MoS when India beat Australia in Australia in the earlier series, but his innings in Gabba was the reason we did not lose that game. His impact is much bigger than stats. Australia was the final unconquerable frontier for India, and he changed all that.

 

[Ab Fan]

I would place Pujara much higher. Not only was he MoS when India beat Australia in Australia in the earlier series, but his innings in Gabba was the reason we did not lose that game. His impact is much bigger than stats. Australia was the final unconquerable frontier for India, and he changed all that.

Yes, Pujara's impact is very high. He has played some great knocks at home on turners too. Hopefully, he regains his form back and takes his average to 48-49.

 

[Buffet]

I suspect this thread is discussing him not able to play according to the situation.

The inability to play in extra gear does not make anyone selfish. It is just the limitations. It is wrong to call Baber selfish. Just appreciate what he can do.

Babar can have a great career and perhaps match Amla, but that's a long way for him. If he can get anywhere close to Amla's level it will be a gun career.

Everyone doesn't have to be Smith, Kohli etc..

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Pretty selfish today, isn't it?

 

[PakPremi]

The difference is there for everyone to see. All greats and ATGs were averaging higher than Babar. Cheteshwar Pujara was averaging +3 higher.

Kohli already had 5 away hundreds and he hit his peak right then and took his average to 50+. Babar at this point is just a good test batsman and he will have to hit the peak of Ponting/ Kohli to match his stature as test batsman. To put all things into consideration, yes, he is clearly overrated and need a couple of big years in test format to be considered an equivalent of fab four.

I repeat Difference of +1 only for Kohli at age of 26. So no Babar is not overated. It is a different matter he may not accomplish half asmuch as Kohli later bit he has done really well for Pakistan in limited over cricket and not too bad in test either.

 

[PakPremi]

I suspect this thread is discussing him not able to play according to the situation.

The inability to play in extra gear does not make anyone selfish. It is just the limitations. It is wrong to call Baber selfish. Just appreciate what he can do.

Babar can have a great career and perhaps match Amla, but that's a long way for him. If he can get anywhere close to Amla's level it will be a gun career.

Everyone doesn't have to be Smith, Kohli etc..

Exactly but he will ho lot further than Amla.

 

[PakPremi]

I would place Pujara much higher. Not only was he MoS when India beat Australia in Australia in the earlier series, but his innings in Gabba was the reason we did not lose that game. His impact is much bigger than stats. Australia was the final unconquerable frontier for India, and he changed all that.

If Babar starts playing at snail pace he can also achieve that.

 

[Line and Length]

Great batting from him today. Great way to shut the critics up. Champion Batsman!

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Couldn't even score a hundred, lmao.

 

[Indiafan]

If Babar starts playing at snail pace he can also achieve that.

Lol at thinking defending in test matches is just about going at snail's pace and not about having a great technique. If afridi played slowly will he be Bradman?

 

[Xoib]

Babar was having a great run in tests till this SA series where one must not forget he was coming from a thumb fracture injury.
Hand based injuries are the hardest for batsman to shake off and it takes a while for them to regain full rhythm

 

[Mujtaba2900]

Lol at thinking defending in test matches is just about going at snail's pace and not about having a great technique. If afridi played slowly will he be Bradman?

I actually think fluent babar is better bat then when he tries to be very defensive but its not like he cant be defensive.
He showed his brilliant defence in 1st inning of 2nd test match against England last year for some it was just 46 but in that innings the ball moved all day, he didn't play any offside shots and waited for bowlers to bowl onto his body only to be undone by peach .but nevertheless he was great .
SA Series could be attributed to his bad form or thumb injury , he was missing straight and fuller balls not only from spinners but from fast bowlers too ( T20 ) so i think it was just bad form.

 

[PakPremi]

Lol at thinking defending in test matches is just about going at snail's pace and not about having a great technique. If afridi played slowly will he be Bradman?

Afridi was actually great when he curbed himslef in test matches and played sensibly and slowly to his stndard, but he would have to bat a lot slower to match Pujara. Only likes of Azhar Ali, Mudasser Nazar, Chris Tavare, Trott, Geoff Boycot could be considered in that batting style. Nothing wrong with being solid defensive test batsman, my point being the way Babar plays with flair and freedom there is more chance for him to go out then likes of Pujara.

 

[Last Monetarist]

He seems out of sorts ever since his injury in New Zealand. Comes across as not having the customary poised balance at the crease.

 

[MHN1293]

That was a really good bowling by afridi to get babar out .

 

[Line and Length]

That was a really good bowling by afridi to get babar out .

But he didn’t move his feet at all though. That’s what worries me. Got out to Morris like that in the T20I series against SA as well. Think he’s having issues with moving his feet these days.

 

[Saj]

Nothing selfish about his batting today.

He was just beaten by a bowler on top of his game.

 

[Last Monetarist]

 

[street cricketer]

In grade cricketer lingo, Babar got champed by Shaheen with the hug lol..

 

[shamaan]

But he didn’t move his feet at all though. That’s what worries me. Got out to Morris like that in the T20I series against SA as well. Think he’s having issues with moving his feet these days.

The ball would get majority of players out espically when first coming into bat.credit to shaheen

 

[shamaan]

In grade cricketer lingo, Babar got champed by Shaheen with the hug lol..

Hes just showing his respect to babar best moment in the tournament

 

[MesonK]

DO NOT peddle fake stats.

I thought after I caught you red handed peddling fake stats you learned your lesson but no you are making it a habit now.

You did not care to add 4 months as it did not suite your agenda, I added as Babar is currently 26 years 4 months old!!

Only person caught here red handed spreading blatant biasedness is you!!!

You were saying the Babar is a nothing player were trying to present Kohli as some GOD compared to Babar Azam then I proved to the whole forum the following ...

- Both men at 26 years age (by VK bday at 5th November 2014), BA had superior average 44 of compared to VK's 39.

- Both men with exact same age as babars current age ... average in mid 40s ... 44.2/46.3 .. Big deal ?

Now you have nothing in response to say except to hide behind typical nationalistic drama because stats as usual has brought down your national hero to the level of ... a Pakistani player ...

Now let me expose your blatant lies once more. You mentioned Babar has 2 away centuries at 26 while technically yes but when you dig deep he has only one in Brisbane and the other one in Dubai, your then home ground!! You wanna put that in the same class as a SENA ton?

UAE is not Pakistan. UAE curators, grounds men, crowds, administration, soil, pitches ... are not Pakistani where our players grow up playing. Our players in last decade never got the chance to boost up their stats like HTBs of India like Pujara who average ~60 at home and 37 in SENA+WI (same as Azhar Ali). No matter how much you call UAE a home for Pakistan, its still a neutral/away venue for us.

Yes compared to Babar Virat had ATGesque stats at 26. Babar still has only one SENA century while Kohli had 7!! and mind you none of them came in SL, BD or Dubai, they came in AUS, NZ and SA. That is a significant point that you conveniently ignored. Do I still need to explain the massive difference in class?

Yes at 26 years of age Babar's stats are exact opposite of elite.

Stop spreading lies. Kohli at age 26 (5th November 2014) had 3 SENA centuries at average 39.something and thats what I posted. I know it hurts you but you cant change the stats.

 

[MesonK]

Test batsman in last 20 years:-

Tier 1- Steve Smith

Tier 2- Virat Kohli, Kumar Sangakkara

Tier 3:- KP, ABD, Cook, Clarke, Amla, Younis, G Smith, Root, Williamson, Hayden, Sehwag

Tier 4:- Mahela, Pujara, Yousuf, Hussey, Martyn

Babar needs a couple of big years to hit tier 3. If he maintains similar level of performance, he will be a tier 4 batsman alongside Yousuf and Hussey.

For anything beyond tier 3, he needs 8000+ test runs at average of 50+ with 25 hundreds.

You are mentioning Pujara along with Yousuf and Mahela yet Pujara has almost same or similar record to Azhar Ali ? So how come Pujara is in your list but Azhar Ali is not ?

Indian nationalism at its best.

 

[Mesozoic]

Stop spreading lies. Kohli at age 26 (5th November 2014) had 3 SENA centuries at average 39.something and thats what I posted. I know it hurts you but you cant change the stats.

Kohli turned 26 on the day you're talking about. Babar is currently 26y and 5m old. If you apply that to Kohli, then he'll have 7 Sena hundreds and a much higher average and there goes all your efforts in vein.

Anyways what even is there to compare?

Please name me one breakthrough innings from Babar apart from the one against NZ in the world cup.

By Babar's current age, Kohli had atleast 10 of them. Hobart, 183 against Pak, two hundreds chasing 350+ against Australia, a Test hundred at the Wanderers against peak Steyn, Morkel, Philander....4 hundreds in Australia, Test hundred in NZ, Hundred in a high pressure Indo-Pak WC game, Man of the tournament in the T20 WC, Top scorer in the CT final...

Meanwhile , Babar Azam has scored 13 out of 17 of his int'l hundreds against SL, Ban, WI and Zim.

I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Kohli turned 26 on the day you're talking about. Babar is currently 26y and 5m old. If you apply that to Kohli, then he'll have 7 Sena hundreds and a much higher average and there goes all your efforts in vein.

Anyways what even is there to compare?

Please name me one breakthrough innings from Babar apart from the one against NZ in the world cup.

By Babar's current age, Kohli had atleast 10 of them. Hobart, 183 against Pak, two hundreds chasing 350+ against Australia, a Test hundred at the Wanderers against peak Steyn, Morkel, Philander....4 hundreds in Australia, Test hundred in NZ, Hundred in a high pressure Indo-Pak WC game, Man of the tournament in the T20 WC, Top scorer in the CT final...

Meanwhile , Babar Azam has scored 13 out of 17 of his int'l hundreds against SL, Ban, WI and Zim.

I'll just leave it at that.

Great post...it is shame that Babar has only one top class hundred in his entire career so far. ..even if we analyze his T20 innings, there is no standout innings against a top oppositition..even then his t20 strike rate is below par...

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Great post...it is shame that Babar has only one top class hundred in his entire career so far. ..even if we analyze his T20 innings, there is no standout innings against a top oppositition..even then his t20 strike rate is below par...

lay off the boy lol he's only 26. He's achieved quite a lot so far in my eyes, a century against Australia in Australia (well nearly 2 centuries) is a big deal as well as scoring a few 50s in SA. Please talk about one thing i.e. if you are gonna talk about his test record talk about his test record stop going off here and there talking his t20 standard and odi standard. It's foolish.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

lay off the boy lol he's only 26. He's achieved quite a lot so far in my eyes, a century against Australia in Australia (well nearly 2 centuries) is a big deal as well as scoring a few 50s in SA. Please talk about one thing i.e. if you are gonna talk about his test record talk about his test record stop going off here and there talking his t20 standard and odi standard. It's foolish.

What is foolish is comparing Babar to Kohli. Babar has scored only 3 ODI centuries so far against top 5 teams which are england india australia south africa and new zealand and still 2 of them were in losing causes. And Not to forget ODI is supposed to be his strongest format. i am not even talking about his test and T20 records which are much worse..

 

[Line and Length]

I've noticed how it's always the Indian posters who start off the Babar v Kohli comparisons by saying stuff like he shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli and the Fab four blah blah blah, completely unprovoked. Then a Pak fan takes the bait and responds, and then they whip out Kohli's gazillion hundreds.
Would be great if you guys could just appreciate Kohli for the batsman he is, instead of showing your insecurity, by constantly bringing up his name whenever Babar is being discussed.